The LLNL Fusion Experiment
A Member of ATS
Discussion Thread Here
Originally posted by spikedmilk, Post ID314432/pg1
Sometime back I bought the Rainbow
Conspiracy by Brad
and Sherry Steiger. It actually turned out to be one
of my favorite UFO
reads. It had a few pictures in it but it had
particular photograph in
it that really could not be explained. When I bought
the book, it was before
I had full time access to the internet. So me doing
a search for it didnt
really happen. After awhile I forgot about it, but I
did try did try later
and came up nil. Perhaps, I wasnt searching
correctly or there was still
no updated information regarding the picture. Even
before I set out to
do this post I did a little search (google/ATS) and
came up with nothing.
I saw Steiger was discussed in some threads, but it
mostly pertained to
his study of Ghosts. I am putting this thread into
Alien/UFO board because
this book is in regards to UFO's. Maybe, I'm too
late and this pic has
been explained, but I'm hoping someone knows that
answer or has heard something.
Even some new speculation might be fun. When I look
at the object, my first
thought is either Stargate or $2.00 ride at the
state fair (ya know that
gyroscope thingy) - I know someone is gonna be
I left the caption on so you get
word for word what
is right out of the book. And that book again is : "The
by Brad Steiger and Sherry Hansen Steiger
|Originally posted by internos Post
Spikedmilk, now this is
It's appearance is the one of some
mining gear, maybe?
First time that I see it.
|Originally posted by spikedmilk
No, THANK YOU! You, made the pic all better and presentable like.
I wonder if theres any way we can blow up the sticker on the side of that dumpster and maybe get a location?:puz: And then we go get ourselves some shovels and commence to some digging. Which brings me to this..why did they re-bury it? My first thought way back when was that perhaps it was radioactive. Food for thought. Thanks again Internos!
|Originally posted by internos Post
It looks like some old-type voltmeter or some other measurement device to me too.
|Originally posted by internos Post
Here we are...
Brad And Sherry's
Well, the mystery is solved!
Some weeks ago, Brad and Sherry Steiger agreed to allow posting of a strange photo of a mysterious machine or device on the Steiger website at Rense.com. The announcement was made during one of Brad's regular guest appearances on the program and an appeal went out for help in trying to identify the device...if it could be identified at all. Webmaster James Neff did a brilliant job of presenting the image including zooming close-up of four key visible sections of is and a colorized version which added startling depth and dimension to it.
Brad received a number of email from people, offering their view as to what the device might be or where it might have come from. But none were correct.
First, let's take a look at the James Neff's colorized version of the mystery photo...
As many of you know, the photo was given to Brad and Sherry by an acquaintance. Reportedly, this 'machine' was unearthed in the Western US...and then re-buried. The source told Brad and Sherry it was understood there had been several of these 'machines' - perhaps six - all buried at the same general location. From the photo, it appears the area is arid and sandy.
Interestingly, it is said there are strange glyphs over much of the object. Here is a photo of a rubbing of a few of these alleged symbols that Brad and Sherry also posted on their site (most people who view these glyphs recognize many of the characters to be arabic)...
The Sleuth Who Solved The Mystery
Regular rense.com visitor James Carmody saw the picture and heard Brad issue an appeal for help in trying to identify the 'machine' ... is it a human-made object or is it a piece of equipment from elsewhere...or another time, long ago?
Jim has some brilliant friends in the scientific community and sent the link of the picture to them with the challenge:
"So, you engineering guys, what the hell is this??"
In short order, Jim received the following reply from one of his engineer friends:
To: James Carmody
Below is copied out of a response from a friend of mine who works at one of the national labs. I have asked if there is any more detail info available. Will let you know if I get more.
(here is what the 'friend' said:)
"Well, I just happen to know what
this is, I look at
it every day. It is part of a failed science project
LLNL (Lawrence Livermore
National Lab) did, called the Magnetic Fusion
Project. Your tax payer dollars
He "looks at it every day." Hmm...is he seeing the mystery machine itself? Or, perhaps a photo of it?
Jim went to the LLNL site and found an entry for 'MFE Magnet' on the Lawrence Livermore Timeline page of past projects from the 1980s. http://www.llnl.gov/timeline/80s.html If you click on 'MFE Magnet', the following remarkable answer to the mystery appears...
"The Magnetic Fusion Energy Program's huge Yin-Yang magnet was installed in 1981 to produce the strong magnetic field needed for fusion experiments. The fusion reaction releases a large amount of energy that would be used to heat steam and turn conventional electrical generators."
So, Brad and Sherry's mystery machine was a failed, secret program to develop magnetic fusion as alternative energy technology!
Here is the full page explanation of this formerly secret MFE Magnet project:
Lawrence Livermore Timeline-1980s
Another early energy effort was research on magnetic fusion energy. This research had been part of the Laboratory since its founding in 1952 and grew under Director Batzel's directorship. In the magnetic confinement concept, the fuel is trapped in a magnetic force field long enough to achieve fusion. These systems use large electric currents traveling through huge magnet coils to produce the immensely strong magnetic fields needed. The Laboratory experimented with confining the fuel with giant magnets in experiments such as Levitron, Baseball I and II, TMX (Tandem Mirror Experiment), 2XIIB, and MFTF (Mirror Fusion Test Facility), culminating in the MFTF-B, initiated in 1981. The magnet system for MFTF-B was the largest superconducting system ever built. Shortly after the system was completed in 1986, DOE, faced with budget reductions, decided to focus its magnetic fusion energies on a different technology--the tokamak. The Laboratory then became a contributor to the International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor (ITER) project to design and build the world's first full-scale magnetic fusion reactor.
More recently, Livermore fusion energy scientists are revisiting the spheromak concept. A tokamak's magnetic fields are generated by large, external magnetic coils surrounding a doughnut-shaped reactor, with other magnets in the hole in the donut. In the spheromak configuration, the plasma fuel produces some of its own confining magnetic fields, requiring only an external set of coils and making for a much more compact machine capable of producing a higher-temperature and higher-density plasma.
I received this final comment from James Carmody...
"Apparently, it may have been buried to cover up a multi-billion dollar failure..."
Buried in the Western US. Perhaps with several other prototypes.
So, the mystery is no more. The bizarre 'machine' is a perfect example of an exotic, declassified so-called secret 'black' scientific program.
Fascinating to think about the ramifications had the MFE Magnet project been a success. Magnetic Fusion Energy.
But what about those strange 'glyphs' reportedly scrawled on it? Graffiti of some sort? A prank? Time may tell...
My thanks to Brad and Sherry for releasing their photo for posting.
And to Jim Carmody for solving the enigma.
-- Jeff Rense
Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory
Another early energy effort was research on magnetic fusion energy. This research had been part of the Laboratory since its founding in 1952 and grew under Batzel's directorship. In the magnetic confinement concept, the fuel is trapped in a magnetic force field long enough to achieve fusion. These systems use large electric currents traveling through huge magnet coils to produce the immensely strong magnetic fields needed. The Laboratory experimented with confining the fuel with giant magnets in experiments such as Levitron, Baseball I and II, TMX (Tandem Mirror Experiment), 2XIIB, and MFTF (Mirror Fusion Test Facility), culminating in the MFTF-B, initiated in 1981. The magnet system for MFTF-B was the largest superconducting system ever built. Shortly after the system was completed in 1986, DOE, faced with budget reductions, decided to focus its magnetic fusion energies on a different technology-the tokamak. The Laboratory then became a contributor to the International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor (ITER) project to design and build the world's first full-scale magnetic fusion reactor.
More recently, Livermore fusion energy scientists are revisiting the spheromak concept. A tokamak's magnetic fields are generated by large, external magnetic coils surrounding a doughnut-shaped reactor, with other magnets in the hole in the donut. A spheromak, as Schock explains, "takes the hole out of the doughnut." In the spheromak configuration, the plasma fuel produces some of its own confining magnetic fields, requiring only an external set of coils and making for a much more compact machine capable of producing a higher-temperature and higher-density plasma.
Originally posted by NJ Mooch
1. LLNL mothballed the spheromak
From what is listed it looks like someone decided to put the spheromak on hold while they check out other ideas. Who made this decision and why?
Now they are going back to restart the spheromak. Why change back? Who made this decision? Does LLNL know that the newer ideas are going to fail or have other issues such as funding/reliability or techniological setbacks?
So what is going on? If they went back to the original idea they were working on does that mean that it is better then the tokamak/ITER? What does LLNL know that we don't?
My only guess is that there is technology available today that will make the spheromak operate on the level they require. I will be looking into this now that there is activity on a mothballed project.
Great thread btw
- Abstract Service
The Tandem Mirror Fusion Test Facility (MFTF-B) proposed to take the place of the Mirror Fusion Test Facility (MFTF) under construction since 1978 and scheduled for completion in 1982 is presented. The tandem configuration, inspired by the success of the Tandem Mirror Experiment, is expected to represent an increase in confinement time from 10 msec to several seconds and in power from 1/30 to almost equal to breakeven over the original MFTF, while using essentially all of the equipment currently under construction. The tandem mirror cell planned would employ a combination of the simple mirror solenoid and the minimum-B single cell which counteracts the limitations of each cell alone, making possible high values of the power input/output ratio. A thermal barrier is proposed to create a potential difference between plasma at the center and plugs of the cell without requiring high neutral beam energy and magnetic fields. MFTF-B represents an expansion of the original systems, including the vacuum vessel, vacuum and cryogenic systems, magnet system, neutral beam source, microwave power system, and operating system. MFTF-B can be completed by 1984 and represents a significant advance in the physics and technology of mirror reactors. - SOURCE
|Originally posted by Evasius Post
Many stories I've heard regarding alien machinery or back-engineered craft actually refer to the fact that the 'writing on the walls' is essential to its operation. They're actually symbols of instruction that either allow it to operate or enhance its performance. I've heard of quite a few cases where symbols were found, the most popular being Roswell. It was also most recently brought up again in the [CARET Drone hype/hoax and was an integral part to the story.
The following is a clip from a
Disclosure Project interview
with Brigadier General Stephen Lovekin in which he
about inscriptions on debris from a crashed alien
& watch 2:30 - 4:50).
There are a few reasons why it might have been included in this particular story, The Rainbow Conspiracy. The most unlikely is that it's actually alien in origin and very old. The metal's level of oxidation should have been a giveaway, and from what I've seen in the photo it was well intact.
Another reason could be that the creators of the story wanted it to be more believable or interesting to true UFO aficionados. A witness account of symbols or writing on strange equipment requires further investigation, and if deciphered would solve the mystery. However left in as a side note, it only adds to the mystery.
The most likely scenario (assuming alien technologies have been recovered by the government at some point in the past) would be that this equipment [i]actually is[/i] a failed government project. However it's the nature of the project that's in question -- if it did indeed have symbols on it, then its purpose wasn't exactly what was reported on that government website. The designing engineers were hoping it would do something spectacular, and they were basing their hopes on what the original was able to do. Unfortunately, it looks like they might have tried to mix alien & human technology and also improvised some of the mechanics. Aside from being a failed project, it could have been a complete disaster resulting from its unpredictability, hence why it was buried. (Google 'Montauk Project' for an example). But I personally can't see why there would be any mention of it anywhere on any official government site -- maybe this was just the government covering their butts after it was discovered.
Who knows? But I'd say there's a bit more to the story than we've found so far.
|Originally posted by NJ
So I did some looking around and found this:
The Compact Torus Experiment (CTX) at LANL reached a core electron temperature of 400 eV in a series of experiments in 1989-90, some four years after OFE funding was terminated at the end of FY86. The decision to terminate funding was made at a time that the US alternatives program was winding-down, and was made on the basis of the difficult decisions needed as available funding declined. That the decision was not driven primarily by the physics is indicated in the continuation of the program until the fall of 1990 on Defense Programs funding for hypervelocity creation and on some internal monies.
So the important part is where it says another program continued at LANL, not LLNL, until 1990. That is 4 years after the LLNL project ran out of money. Who funded the LANL project? The Defense Dept.
What was the Defense Dept doing with this project? They were working on hypervelocity creation.
So what is hypervelocity?
Hypervelocity tends to refer to velocities in the range of a few kilometers per second to some tens of kilometers per second. It is especially relevant to the field of space exploration and military use of space, where hypervelocity impacts (e.g. by space debris or an attacking projectile) can result in anything from minor component degradation to the complete destruction of a spacecraft or missile. The impactor, as well as the surface it hits, can undergo temporary liquefaction. The impact process can generate plasma discharges, which can interfere with spacecraft electronics
The properties of metals under hypervelocity have been integrated with weapons, such as explosively formed penetrator. The vaporization upon impact and liquefaction of surfaces allow metal projectiles formed under hypervelocity forces to penetrate vehicle armor better than conventional bullets.
So what was the DoD up to back in the late 80s? I can imagine 3 things:
1. They were working on space
equipment that would
get hit by objects that were at speeds starting at
I just wanted to add this info since this research was taking place at more then one facility for more then one reason.
|Originally posted by zorgon
I would love a scan of that one... or at least the date and name of the paper
Originally posted by Jadette Post ID 3699489
I might even have a copy around the house somewhere.
It was the LA Times, and I suspect in 1986. I kept the article because at the time as an engineer it was pretty eye opening, just the picture alone was attention catching, let alone when they started flashing the word Fusion.
I'll look for it this afternoon and try and get it posted.
But for now, look at say, the public article in Energy and Technology Review, from November 1986.
An interview with Ken Fowler, LLNL`s Associate Director for Magnetic Fusion Energy, is presented.^Dr. Fowler describes the present state of fusion research at LLNL and comments on future directions for the program.^Also included are the following: (1) evolution of the tandem-mirror approach to magnetic fusion, (2) MFTF-B, (3) overview of plant and equipment tests, (4) PACE tests: the magnet system, (5) PACE tests: the cryogenic system, (6) PACE tests: the neutral beam heating system, (7) PACE tests: the ecr heating system, (8) PACE tests: the plasma diagnostics system, and (9) PACE tests: the integrated control system.^(MOW)
That at least, should verify that the MFTF-B project wasn't secret since it was being publicly written about.
Science 9 October 1987:
Fusion's $372-Million Mothball:
Livermore wanted to
be a contender in the race to design a commercial
fusion reactor; but it
lost without ever getting to turn on its big mirror
I can find lots of citations, so I doubt that it was on the hush-hush.
THIS might explain the history of US Fusion research to everyone. It's a report done in 1995 explaining...well the history of US Fusion. :)
There was some disbelief in this thread about our capablity to do something like this in the 1970s. However, we've been working on such projects since the 1950s, it was a spin off from hydrogen bomb research.
Here's some more about the project:
And finally, LLNL won an award for recycling the parts from the MFTF-B project: (long link, cut and paste)
Actual Nomination Description:
During FY 02 Bill Maciel managed two projects that utilized the concept of Assets for Value subcontracting.The scope of the first project was to deactivate a cryogenic recapture facility (B433), and disassemble a 60-foot diameter by 80-foot tall steel tank. The cryogenic recapture facility was used in support of the 1980?s era Magnetic Fusion Energy Program?s, Mirror Fusion Test Facility (MFTF). The tank was constructed for the assembly of the National Ignition Facility?s, Target Chamber. The second project decommissioned and removed all of the power conversion and power supply equipment associated with the MFTF experiment. The cryogenic recapture facility (B433) was used to re-compress vaporized liquid nitrogen and liquid helium after it was used to cool the electromagnets associated with the MFTF. The facility housed large compressors, cryogenic liquid storage tanks, and high-pressure gas storage tanks. All of the excess equipment was removed and the empty 5000 square foot building was returned to the LLNL institution for reuse. All of the equipment associated with B433 was made available to the D&D subcontractor in exchange for D&D services. All of the equipment was recycled or resold by the subcontractor.
For example, 60 - thirty foot long high pressure helium tanks were sold as high pressure pipe sections (after the end bells were removed), and 100 foot long nitrogen tanks were cut up and recycled. Additionally, large electric motors (up to 5000hp) were sold and reused by industry. The large steel tank was constructed to create controlled environment for the assembly of the 35' diameter National Ignition Facility (NIF) Target Chamber The tank was constructed of welded steel sheets and was secured to a 30' concrete foundation. The tank was dismantled by the subcontractor at all of the welded joints and trucked to a steel rolling facility where the sections were rolled to the original tank specifications. The sections were then made available to industry for re-assembly as a storage tank. The concrete foundation was crushed and recycled as road base. The power equipment associated with the Mirror Fusion Test Facility had been abandon for over 15 years. The equipment consisted of the following: 19 large oil-filled transformers, power distribution towers, 432 oil-filled high voltage capacitors, 192 concrete pads, 1000 ftof concrete cable trench, and 24 electrical control cabinets. The equipment was configured in an area that covered 63,000 square feet. All of the equipment and concrete were removed, recycled and or reused by industry. In total 4,040 tons of concrete, 25,000 gallons of oil, 1,167 tons of metal, and 250 tons of equipment were diverted from the LLNL waste stream by these two projects. Additionally, the Assets for Value Program made these projects feasible by offsetting some of the costs associated with the subcontracted D&D services. The two projects returned almost 100,000 square feet of real estate to the Laboratory to help address future building needs. - SOURCE
(My apologies for the large quote, I put the abstract here in whole, due to the link being from a Google Cache, in case it disappeared.)
|Originally posted by
Here is another view from my collection of these photos which I received in 1988. It doesn’t show anything more than the others, just a different view:
About a year later I found a picture of it on page 224 in "Space Time Infinity" by James S. Terfil published By the Smithsonian Institution in 1985.
The text under the picture reads:
“Tandem” mirror huge electric coils shaped in a yin-yang configuration, provides power for attempted at triggering thermonuclear fusion. Plasma particles are confined, then fiercely squeezed in a magnetic force field. Rings of bright solar spots, (lower picture) are associated with both thermonuclear fission and magnetic fields:
|Originally posted by robija
Hi to all. My first post. And pls sorry for my english.
Despite all your comments I must ask myself, can't you all see the difference between the two machines. First - first machine is clearly smaller than second (which you can see by field of view, focal length of camera etc. - I hope you will understand me), second the top of that "head" of first machine seems closer to the center then it is at second machine...
They are not the same.
I thought that maybe this first machine is from long time ago and second one is just an imitation. But then i remembered that working with metal is not SO old technology and it would be maybe rusted or "eaten by the time". So that theory falls in the water.
|Originally posted by
Any one notice the little alien type guy in the picture. If you look where the so called dumpster is and you see that white logo, look just to the right where the sand pile meets with those pylons shoring up the device. There you will see a shape that looks to be a biped of some sort looking in the direction of the camera.
|Originally posted by
HEY YOU! Put that camera away! Nothing to see here! MOVE ALONG!
|Originally posted by
|Originally posted by NJ
I want to give you all something to check out, Zorgon please take a pic of yourself when you read what some of these links deal with and who they deal with. I want to see the look on your face...
If you want a teaser since I know most of you won't read through some of these links I'll say a few words and you decide if you want to pass up this info:
NASA, USAF, NASA/JPL, tandem mirror He3 fusion reactor, yes I said He3 fusion reactor...now pick your chin off the ground... lol
Propulsion Research on the Variable
Tandem Mirror Plasma
I don't know if you have heard of SOAR before, but here is a small bit of into.
The plasma physics approach extrapolates from the present plasma physics and fusion technology knowledge base using concepts which can be tested on existing or near-term devices. The symbiosis of burst mode requirements, D-3He tandem mirror fusion reactor characteristics, and the space environment leads to a very high performance design concept.
If you want to see what these type
of design would
look like, check out this page:
I hope this gives you the idea of what the research that this thread mentions turned into once it was figured out. I also will say that they have made this reactor very small and very efficient. They mention a trip to Mars, that includes plenty of time on the surface, and a craft using one of these reactors in one of these links. [/quote]
|Originally posted by Jack
Research And No Development
What bothers me to no end is this:
This is just one example: Cheaper
and more efficient
July 12, 1957
Since then, grants were applied for and received to improve the technology. Fission reactors are inherently dangerous, so after numerous attempts to develop NPP’s less risky, it was apparent this couldn’t be done. Over the years, billions were spent to find this out. Then in 1979, with the Three Mile Island incident, the public finally knew.
Although fission plants are the only
type in operation
today, R & D was started in the early 70’s on
fusion reactors. More
grants were and are, awarded to get this developed.
So what do they do? Revert back to more studies and R & D on older technologies in the spheromak systems!
We’ve come full circle and starting
over with nothing
better for the public than what we have already.
Grants, awards, black budgets,
taxes, wars, oil prices
and the like are bleeding us dry and what do we get?
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