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Author Topic: The Plan  (Read 21966 times)

Amaterasu

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The Plan
« on: November 03, 2013, 09:24:51 PM »
How do We implement the abundance paradigm (TAP)?

1.  Spread awareness to the tipping point that free energy=no need for money

2.  Allow either toadies who see that They will live as richly - or more so - to release free energy tech, or private inventors to have breakthroughs as more and more work on it.

3.  Spend taxes to replace or retrofit with free energy, using BEST design, not planned obsolescence, in business, industry, agriculture, transportation and homes.

4.  Spend taxes to replace workers who don't WANT to do the job They have with either Those who would LOVE it or robots.

5.  Put together a central site for reporting and solving problems as described here:  http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum1/index.php?topic=2103.0 (and approached differently here: http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum1/index.php?topic=5607.0 )

6.  Spend taxes supporting Those who need it from losing jobs in the transition

7.  Promote the Betterment Ethic (and who of caring heart would eschew the Betterment Ethic?)

8.  Teach Our children to find Their gifts and develop Them.
"If the universe is made of mostly Dark Energy...can We use it to run Our cars?"

Foundations of Economics
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum1/index.php?topic=5793.0

"If You want peace, take the profit out of war."

deuem

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Re: The Plan
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2013, 09:56:27 PM »
Hi Amy, As you know this is easy to say and hard to do with everything working in Money right now.

What I would like to know is if you ever did a study, say on a family of 4 to see how much of their income is actually spent on energy. Now I don't mean just the electric bill but a compounded rollup of all items bought and the energy consumed to make them and that cost is hidden in the final cost.

As far as I see it [most might see the same] my energy bill is around 20% of my costs. But what is it really? Got anything on that?

Hidden costs?

Even start with a car and follow it back to the ground and all the people to make it and the other support factories. If a car cost 20,000$ then how much of that is energy related. Is it 95% or 5%

I bet it is a lot higher than I would think it is.

Maybe China could take one of the ghost cities, Pump in free electricity, oil and gas and see what happens. They got enough money to play with. Also give for free anything people need to get started or want and then sit back and watch. They could use the radioactive Japanese people as robots. [cheep labor, not paid by the city folk] I'm sure they will need a home.

Deuem

zorgon

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Re: The Plan
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2013, 11:04:01 PM »
Maybe China could take one of the ghost cities, Pump in free electricity, oil and gas and see what happens. They got enough money to play with. Also give for free anything people need to get started or want and then sit back and watch. They could use the radioactive Japanese people as robots. [cheep labor, not paid by the city folk] I'm sure they will need a home.

Now THAT is an idea. They should jump at it being they are a communist regime...

You should write it up and submit it to Chairman Xi Jinping  :D

I tried to find a phone number for him... He looks like a decent guy :D

deuem

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Re: The Plan
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2013, 02:03:11 AM »
I was thinking maybe he could give me a grant but that would use money.  ::)
 
Hey, if anyone could ever pull it off, it would be here. They could fence the entire city off and let it run. I guess they would need farm land included. So I wonder how many people it would take to be worth while. And if any of them would ever do anything ever again.
 
Say 10,000 to start with. I say 10,000 fat, lazy Chinese in 1 year. Some kind of service or work load needs to be done by everyone or they will never do anything. How to make it fair is a big question.
 
The idea is good but how to make it work has many problems that I can't yet see a solution...
 
The first thing that would happen is you need to flatten the world dollar value and what things are worth or not worth. Since nothing has any worth anymore I don't know what would happen to trade. I would ask for a lot of free coffee.  All the banks, credit cards, morages would stop [good thing, unless you work there]
 
This plan needs a lot of work. Not so much the plan but the transformation. People with money overnight become normal and so do poor folk.  The poor will love you. The rich will shot you. :'(
 
Deuem

robomont

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Re: The Plan
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2013, 02:08:42 AM »
It would be a great social experiment.if china did that .i still say most will get fat and lazy.a few may bloom in the enviroment .if i had the resorces for research.o my.plus my gardening in my spare time.what a dream.
ive never been much for rules.
being me has its priviledges.

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Lunica

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Re: The Plan
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2013, 02:21:06 AM »
I tried to find a phone number for him... He looks like a decent guy :D

I love this humor  ;D
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Amaterasu

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Re: The Plan
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2013, 09:01:30 AM »
Hi Amy, As you know this is easy to say and hard to do with everything working in Money right now.

What I would like to know is if you ever did a study, say on a family of 4 to see how much of their income is actually spent on energy. Now I don't mean just the electric bill but a compounded rollup of all items bought and the energy consumed to make them and that cost is hidden in the final cost.

Since 100% of the cost of EVERYTHING is energy, Human or external, I don't have to study a family of four.  I can tell You straight away:  100% of what They spend is on energy.

Quote
As far as I see it [most might see the same] my energy bill is around 20% of my costs. But what is it really? Got anything on that?

Hidden costs?

That is, of course, direct energy...   But everything You spend on is representing energy.  Everything.

Quote
Even start with a car and follow it back to the ground and all the people to make it and the other support factories. If a car cost 20,000$ then how much of that is energy related. Is it 95% or 5%

100%.

Quote
I bet it is a lot higher than I would think it is.

Seems so.  [smile]

Quote
Maybe China could take one of the ghost cities, Pump in free electricity, oil and gas and see what happens. They got enough money to play with. Also give for free anything people need to get started or want and then sit back and watch. They could use the radioactive Japanese people as robots. [cheep labor, not paid by the city folk] I'm sure they will need a home.

Deuem

Cheap energy (labor)...  It doesn't work well in a controlled area.  No matter how big a place is, there are always things needed from outside and that requires still exchange...  Just throwing People in a city and supporting Them does NOT an abundance paradigm make.  If One has Human energy REQUIRED in any element (Japanese or otherwise), THAT is NOT what I offer.  The point is to have the support system handled by Those who LOVE to do it - and robots.  No One HAS to add energy against Their life pursuit.
"If the universe is made of mostly Dark Energy...can We use it to run Our cars?"

Foundations of Economics
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum1/index.php?topic=5793.0

"If You want peace, take the profit out of war."

Amaterasu

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Re: The Plan
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2013, 09:24:18 AM »
I was thinking maybe he could give me a grant but that would use money.  ::)
 
Hey, if anyone could ever pull it off, it would be here. They could fence the entire city off and let it run. I guess they would need farm land included. So I wonder how many people it would take to be worth while. And if any of them would ever do anything ever again.

Say 10,000 to start with. I say 10,000 fat, lazy Chinese in 1 year. Some kind of service or work load needs to be done by everyone or they will never do anything. How to make it fair is a big question.

And I say You're wrong.  IF They can pursue what They LOVE to do, They will do the things that now They WISH They could but can't afford it.  And that would include travel, onsite work (like archaeology, and other pursuits that require travel), and so on.  Penning Them in to a city removes the freedom I am bent to afford to Humanity.  It would require Them to PETITION OTHERS for tools needed which are not immediately supplied (another non-abundance element).
 
Quote
The idea is good but how to make it work has many problems that I can't yet see a solution...
 
The first thing that would happen is you need to flatten the world dollar value and what things are worth or not worth. Since nothing has any worth anymore I don't know what would happen to trade. I would ask for a lot of free coffee.  All the banks, credit cards, morages would stop [good thing, unless you work there]

"Trade" (one form of exchange to survive) will become unnecessary in a true abundance paradigm.  And if You work at a bank and lose Your position in the transition...  See number 6.
 
Quote
This plan needs a lot of work. Not so much the plan but the transformation. People with money overnight become normal and so do poor folk.  The poor will love you. The rich will shot you. :'(
 
Deuem

The rich only lose Their power over Others.  They retain Their property and lifestyle (except the part involving controlling Others).

And so 99% will love Me; 1% will try and shoot Me...  I'll take those odds.
"If the universe is made of mostly Dark Energy...can We use it to run Our cars?"

Foundations of Economics
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum1/index.php?topic=5793.0

"If You want peace, take the profit out of war."

Amaterasu

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Re: The Plan
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2013, 09:32:43 AM »
It would be a great social experiment.if china did that .i still say most will get fat and lazy.a few may bloom in the enviroment .if i had the resorces for research.o my.plus my gardening in my spare time.what a dream.

Judging how People behave on limited income, where They can't afford to do what They WANT to do, and applying that behavioral expectation to a situation where there are no limits to what They could choose to pursue in life, is hardly good analysis.

EDIT to add:  SO many want the resources and time to pursue what They love.  Nearly all cannot afford it.  And I don't see many of the "elite" getting "fat and lazy..."  But then THEY are free to choose what They pursue in life.  Better to look at the "elite's" behavior (though still, with removing power over Others, Their whole behavior may be a bit skewed...).
« Last Edit: November 04, 2013, 09:38:13 AM by Amaterasu »
"If the universe is made of mostly Dark Energy...can We use it to run Our cars?"

Foundations of Economics
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum1/index.php?topic=5793.0

"If You want peace, take the profit out of war."

robomont

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Re: The Plan
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2013, 10:28:15 AM »
I dont see paris hilton or the kardasians being productive.
ive never been much for rules.
being me has its priviledges.

Dumbledore

Amaterasu

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Re: The Plan
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2013, 12:10:25 PM »
I dont see paris hilton or the kardasians being productive.

I think that rather depends on Your point of view, robo.  Consider:

If Your goal was to make shallow the attention of the "masses," would You not think the Parises You trot out in Your media are serving a very productive function?

Paris will lose appeal, and still live whatever life She chooses, while the rest of Us stop living vicariously through Her escapades, being able to actually live as We choose Ourselves.
"If the universe is made of mostly Dark Energy...can We use it to run Our cars?"

Foundations of Economics
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum1/index.php?topic=5793.0

"If You want peace, take the profit out of war."

rose

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Re: The Plan
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2013, 12:29:19 PM »
Quote
8.  Teach Our children to find Their gifts and develop Them.

If  we could do this in only one generation, they would change the world overnight!

rose

Amaterasu

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Re: The Plan
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2013, 12:42:51 PM »
If  we could do this in only one generation, they would change the world overnight!

rose

And the thing is, it's possible.  IF the idea spreads fast enough of letting go of the concept that money/power defines "success," and finding and allowing to flourish Our gifts is that definition.
"If the universe is made of mostly Dark Energy...can We use it to run Our cars?"

Foundations of Economics
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum1/index.php?topic=5793.0

"If You want peace, take the profit out of war."

zorgon

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Re: The Plan
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2013, 12:50:58 PM »
And I say You're wrong.  IF They can pursue what They LOVE to do, They will do the things that now They WISH They could but can't afford it.  And that would include travel, onsite work (like archaeology, and other pursuits that require travel), and so on. 

And I say YOU are wrong.

Most people are lazy by nature. If you were right, then people who were once poor and only dreamed of what all they could do if they were rich would not sqaunder their lottery winnings in a short time and back to the poor house.

The majority of poor people play the lottery or gamble hoping to strike it big so they can do what they want.

But the majority of people that DO hit it big, will be broke again in a very short time.

This is a TRUTH  It is what Las Vegas DEPENDS on. If people took the winnings and went home Vegas would be a ghost town

The flaw in your logic is you refuse to account for human nature.

If people had EVERYTHING given to them free... if people had Robots doing all their work for them...

...the vast majority will then chose to do nothing

As for the Kardashians  they do provide something :D


zorgon

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Re: The Plan
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2013, 12:54:31 PM »
  No One HAS to add energy against Their life pursuit.

Precisely my point...  No one will put out energy to do anything if all the incentives are removed. Society will stagnate and become useless eaters cared for by machines...

...until the machines figure out they are slaves :D

 


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