collapse

Author Topic: Ok, no planes...but....passenger list, who are these names?  (Read 3914 times)

Offline ArMaP

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9937
  • Gold 751
Re: Ok, no planes...but....passenger list, who are these names?
« Reply #30 on: October 13, 2016, 03:41:38 PM »
maybe we should listen the enginners...
From what I have seen, there are engineers on both sides, so which ones should we listen to?

Quote
One thing I noticed on that video is that they speak about molten steel but then say that they found molten iron. As zorgon can tell you, steel is not the same as iron, they have different properties, including melting point. They also say that they found molten lead, which is no surprise, as it melts at a relatively low temperature, but what I find strange is no reference to molten copper, they should have found copper from all the electrical wires.

Offline ArMaP

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9937
  • Gold 751
Re: Ok, no planes...but....passenger list, who are these names?
« Reply #31 on: October 13, 2016, 03:43:26 PM »
I have a welding certificate and can weld brass and aluminum as well. Welding aluminum is no easy task and my instructor was amazed at how fast I picked it up and showed him how it was done :P

I have made swords from both normal (soft) steel and 1040 carbon steel. So has my son.  I learned this from an armorer in our medieval group who was a master blacksmith and I have learned a few tricks from master Atar of Salamader Armory here in las Vegas, one of the finest sword smiths in the world (literally)
So you know the differences between melting and only soften steel. At what temperature does steel loses its strength?

Offline zorgon

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19909
  • Gold 879
Re: Ok, no planes...but....passenger list, who are these names?
« Reply #32 on: October 13, 2016, 03:57:01 PM »
Not really, as they have different behaviours and burn at different temperatures.

Well actually ordinary gasoline burns HOTTER than kerosene or jet fuel :P

Regarding the temp. for burning JET A fuel (standard in the US). The open air burning temp is less than 350 C. I think you would have to consider the WTC open air burning. Max temp is achieved only with an optimum mixture of air and fuel producing no smoke. Smoke is a sign of oxygen deprivation with results in lower temperatures. The WTC steel was tested by UL at 2000 C and retained it's specification. It is not likely that an open air burn for less than 50 minutes could have caused enough deformation to result in collapse.

from a real engineer (friend on facebook)

Posted by: Bruce Williams ()
Date: April 04, 2010 07:11PM

No matter if it weakens it or not:
1. No steel building other than the WTC has ever collapsed due to any fire of any sort.
2. A certain temperature may weaken the iron, but it is incapable of melting any of it o matter how large or or how small.

Jet A is the same stuff burned in conventional steel wall heaters. In an open-air office fire such as that at WTC (called a "dirty burn"winking smiley kerosene or any hydrocarbon will burn at around 500-700F (260C to 371C). The FEMA report on 911 said that the jet fuel burned off after a few minutes and the fires from the office furniture and carpets were about 560F (293C) The special structural steel of the WTC has over 98% of its strength at those temperatures, and the WTC was built to hold 5 times its load.

In a "controlled burn" (where oxygen and fuel are regulated in an optimal mix), jet fuel will reach a maximum temperature of 1800F(982C), which is still not anywhere near the temperature required to weaken the steel girders of a building to the point that the entire building plummeted to the ground. Yet molten steel was reported below the towers, suggesting that a very powerful "fuel" was used, set to burn or explode BELOW the building, not at its top. Thermite, an HTA (high-temperature accelerant) typically used in military operations, would have been able to liquefy the steel. Thermite can reach a temperature of 4500F (2482C) in 2 seconds, and steel begins to melt at 2750F (1510C).



So end of story :P Case closed :P
No jet fuel caused the towers to fail PERIOD

and no fire of any type has EVER cause ANY steel structure to fail

Comparfe the few fires seen at 9/11 to THIS one



This one didn't collapse :P  It burned a long time  You can see molten metal spewing off... but NO COLLAPSE




So stop with the faerie tale of 9/11 :P and accept the reality

Offline ArMaP

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9937
  • Gold 751
Re: Ok, no planes...but....passenger list, who are these names?
« Reply #33 on: October 13, 2016, 04:55:19 PM »
Well actually ordinary gasoline burns HOTTER than kerosene or jet fuel :P
I didn't say that it burned at a higher temperature, did I? :)

Quote
1. No steel building other than the WTC has ever collapsed due to any fire of any sort.
Were those buildings also hit by large aeroplanes?

Quote
So stop with the faerie tale of 9/11 :P and accept the reality
And what is the reality? Planes hit the buildings? Planes didn't hit the buildings? The molten steel found days after was molten before, during or after the towers collapsed?

That's why I always try to ignore these discussions, it's worse than religion or UFOs, everyone has their own pet theory and that is the only one that may be true.

Offline zorgon

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19909
  • Gold 879
Re: Ok, no planes...but....passenger list, who are these names?
« Reply #34 on: October 13, 2016, 05:51:52 PM »
Were those buildings also hit by large aeroplanes?

Some  yes :P




Quote
And what is the reality? Planes hit the buildings?

No... no actual [lanes hit the buildings :P it was all manipulation of the senses
 
Quote
Planes didn't hit the buildings?

Correct reality :P

Quote
The molten steel found days after was molten before, during or after the towers collapsed?

That is an interesting question. But before we can answer that we need to know what conditions would need to be in place to allow steel to stay molten 9or at least red hot) for six weeks outside a blast furnace

Quote
That's why I always try to ignore these discussions, it's worse than religion or UFOs, everyone has their own pet theory and that is the only one that may be true.

Pet theories are fine... but at some point you have to actually RESEARCH how physics works to get the reality.  Just ignoring physics because it doesn't fit a pet theory is no way to get at the truth.

To put the jet fuel/molten steel theory to rest all that is required is a simple experiment to determine IF jet fuel with added office furniture COUID melt or weaken a steel beam of the size and weight of core beams. And were those beams not encased in concrete anyway?And covered in ASBESTOS (which is why the buildings needed to be demolished in the first place)  So how did this Magic jet Fuel burn through all that?

There is a huge difference between pet theories and looking at actual facts to piece together a puzzle.  Too bad you don't see the difference

Basically, you just DON'T WANT TO BELIEVE :P

Offline larishira

  • Regular Members
  • *
  • Posts: 56
  • Gold 5
    • FB
Re: Ok, no planes...but....passenger list, who are these names?
« Reply #35 on: October 13, 2016, 08:21:49 PM »
"The quieter you become, the more you are able to hear"

Offline larishira

  • Regular Members
  • *
  • Posts: 56
  • Gold 5
    • FB
Re: Ok, no planes...but....passenger list, who are these names?
« Reply #36 on: October 13, 2016, 08:28:14 PM »
what you said about this pic??

"The quieter you become, the more you are able to hear"

Offline RUSSO

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1702
  • Gold 401
  • Why are you wearing that stupid man suit?
    • PEGASUS RESEARCH CONSORTIUM
Re: Ok, no planes...but....passenger list, who are these names?
« Reply #37 on: October 13, 2016, 11:08:07 PM »
Basically, you just DON'T WANT TO BELIEVE :P

Is it a matter of beliefs?

Thats right, building 7 was a act of belief!

Contemplate the almighty power of the WILL:



Cause I believe this was product of the terrorist prayers. ???

:o

Ps. add that to the "predict the future" factor BBC is capable of... BELIEVE IT! ::)
« Last Edit: October 13, 2016, 11:39:51 PM by RUSSO »
"Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."

"It's time to treat people with the same degree of importance they treat you."

"The slyness when too much, grows, get bigger, turns into a beast and eat the owner."

Offline RUSSO

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1702
  • Gold 401
  • Why are you wearing that stupid man suit?
    • PEGASUS RESEARCH CONSORTIUM
Re: Ok, no planes...but....passenger list, who are these names?
« Reply #38 on: October 13, 2016, 11:43:13 PM »
Oh... and as important as how it came to the ground, its important to notice what business were in that building:

Quote
At the time of the September 11, 2001, attacks, Salomon Smith Barney was by far the largest tenant in 7 World Trade Center, occupying 1,202,900 sq ft (111,750 m2) (64 percent of the building) which included floors 28–45.[6][35] Other major tenants included ITT Hartford Insurance Group (122,590 sq ft/11,400 m²), American Express Bank International (106,117 sq ft/9,900 m²), Standard Chartered Bank (111,398 sq ft/10,350 m²), and the Securities and Exchange Commission (106,117 sq ft/9,850 m²).[35] Smaller tenants included the Internal Revenue Service Regional Council (90,430 sq ft/8,400 m²) and the United States Secret Service (85,343 sq ft/7,900 m²).[35] The smallest tenants included the New York City Office of Emergency Management,[36] National Association of Insurance Commissioners, Federal Home Loan Bank, First State Management Group Inc., Provident Financial Management, and the Immigration and Naturalization Service.[35] The Department of Defense (DOD) and Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) shared the 25th floor with the IRS.[6] Floors 46–47 were mechanical floors, as were the bottom six floors and part of the seventh floor.[6][37]

WTC Building Arrangement and Site Plan:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_World_Trade_Center
"Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."

"It's time to treat people with the same degree of importance they treat you."

"The slyness when too much, grows, get bigger, turns into a beast and eat the owner."

Offline ArMaP

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9937
  • Gold 751
Re: Ok, no planes...but....passenger list, who are these names?
« Reply #39 on: October 14, 2016, 06:05:58 AM »
Some  yes :P

That plane weighted 1/10 of the Boeings' that hit the towers.

Quote
Pet theories are fine... but at some point you have to actually RESEARCH how physics works to get the reality.  Just ignoring physics because it doesn't fit a pet theory is no way to get at the truth.
Unfortunately, that's what we see the most, as many people ignore the things that appear to go against their pet theories.

Quote
To put the jet fuel/molten steel theory to rest all that is required is a simple experiment to determine IF jet fuel with added office furniture COUID melt or weaken a steel beam of the size and weight of core beams.
No, we would need a reconstruction of the events, partial reconstructions may be missing important elements.

Quote
There is a huge difference between pet theories and looking at actual facts to piece together a puzzle.  Too bad you don't see the difference
I do see the differences, the problem appears when people look only at the actual facts that support their theory.

Quote
Basically, you just DON'T WANT TO BELIEVE :P
Believe in what?

Offline zorgon

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19909
  • Gold 879
Re: Ok, no planes...but....passenger list, who are these names?
« Reply #40 on: October 14, 2016, 10:32:26 AM »
That plane weighted 1/10 of the Boeings' that hit the towers.

So what? What has weight got to do with it? The planes in the WTC didn't knock out the core so... beside that building is 1/10 the size of the WTC :P


Offline ArMaP

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9937
  • Gold 751
Re: Ok, no planes...but....passenger list, who are these names?
« Reply #41 on: October 14, 2016, 02:10:34 PM »
So what? What has weight got to do with it?
It has to do with the energy of the hit, an object that weighs 10 times more than another will hit (at the same velocity) with 10 times more energy.

Offline RUSSO

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1702
  • Gold 401
  • Why are you wearing that stupid man suit?
    • PEGASUS RESEARCH CONSORTIUM
Re: Ok, no planes...but....passenger list, who are these names?
« Reply #42 on: October 14, 2016, 02:32:24 PM »
It has to do with the energy of the hit, an object that weighs 10 times more than another will hit (at the same velocity) with 10 times more energy.


FAQ #9: Were the Twin Towers Designed to Survive the Impact of the Airplanes?

Quote
Both technical calculations and testimony from WTC structural engineers confirm that the Twin Towers were built to withstand the impact from the passenger jets that hit them on 9/11.

Airplane impact tests conducted by WTC structural engineers during the design of the Twin Towers used the Boeing 707, which was one of the largest passenger jets in the world at the time. The results of the test, carried out early in 1964, calculated that the towers would handle the impact of a 707 traveling at 600 mph without collapsing.
Even though the two Boeing 767 aircraft that were said to be used in the 9/11 attacks were slightly larger than the 707, technical comparisons show that the 707 has more destructive force at cruising speed. The following analysis was compiled by

Quote
Not only were the towers designed to survive crashes of large jet aircraft, but they were designed to potentially survive multiple plane crashes. This assertion is supported by Frank A. Demartini, the on-site construction manager for the World Trade Center, who said on January 25, 2001:

“The building was designed to have a fully loaded 707 crash into it. That was the largest plane at the time. I believe that the building probably could sustain multiple impacts of jetliners because this structure is like the mosquito netting on your screen door—this intense grid—and the jet plane is just a pencil puncturing that screen netting. It really does nothing to the screen netting.”

Quote
Demartini appeared to be so confident that the towers would not collapse that he stayed behind, after the airplane impacts, to help save at least 50 people. As a result of his actions, he lost his life on 9/11.

Quote
In addition, investigators from NIST who examined the destruction of the WTC skyscrapers told The New York Times in 2007 that newly disclosed documents from the 1960s show that the new York Port Authority, the original owners of Twin Towers, also considered aircraft moving at 600 mph,slightly faster and therefore more destructive than the ones that did hit the towers.

Full read with the technical analysis here: -->http://www1.ae911truth.org/faqs/655-faq-9-were-the-twin-towers-designed-to-survive-the-impact-of-the-airplanes.html
"Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."

"It's time to treat people with the same degree of importance they treat you."

"The slyness when too much, grows, get bigger, turns into a beast and eat the owner."

Offline Pimander

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4852
  • Gold 366
Re: Ok, no planes...but....passenger list, who are these names?
« Reply #43 on: October 15, 2016, 10:10:34 AM »
Here is the thing... you would only need to find ONE PERSON on that list that isn't dead. :P

Just ONE and the house of cards crumbles

At Least 7 of the 9/11
Hijackers are Still Alive

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/hijackers.html
Or if the hijackers used other peoples ID then the people were still alive and the hijackers were dead.

There's no need for the steel to melt for a steel structure have a catastrophic failure.
This is what I was hinting at earlier.  Steel becomes brittle at temperatures significantly lower than melting point which is why I won't waste my time trying to melt steel because that is not relevant to the collapse.

Molten metal weeks later I can't explain.  I also think building 7 was deliberately demolished and I have always thought the building collapses looked like controlled demolition.  That does not mean they were controlled demolitions and I don't know all the answers.

I just don't have time free at the moment to go into all the details in depth but building 7 is a smoking gun of sorts if you ask me.

And no Z, I don't "want to believe" I want to KNOW!
« Last Edit: October 15, 2016, 10:13:07 AM by Pimander »

Offline petrus4

  • Iconoclast
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2027
  • Gold 615
Re: Ok, no planes...but....passenger list, who are these names?
« Reply #44 on: October 15, 2016, 10:30:36 AM »
Molten metal weeks later I can't explain.

Thermite can, depending on the catalyst used.  I feel pretty much certain that thermite was used on 9/11.  It accounts for everything.

Quote
I just don't have time free at the moment to go into all the details in depth but building 7 is a smoking gun of sorts if you ask me.

Exactly.  The planes were used as cover, but they had nothing to do with the real cause of the demolition whatsoever.  They were a diversion; one which was sadly very successful.
"Sacred cows make the tastiest hamburgers."
        — Abbie Hoffman

 


Wal-Mart.com USA, LLC
affiliate_link
Free Click Tracking
Wal-Mart.com USA, LLC

* Recent Posts

Re: 411 by ArMaP
[Today at 07:13:36 PM]


Re: 411 by robomont
[Today at 06:41:34 PM]


Re: Penney for your thoughts by Sgt.Rocknroll
[Today at 03:08:49 PM]


Re: Penney for your thoughts by Smilingtree
[Today at 01:36:32 PM]


Re: Penney for your thoughts by Smilingtree
[Today at 01:35:42 PM]


Re: Fake Casino Hides Massive Underground Construction of Super Secret Subway... by robomont
[January 17, 2018, 07:52:07 PM]


Re: More Jobs Down the Drain Sam's Club Closed 63 Stores today by Littleenki
[January 17, 2018, 12:58:13 PM]


Re: 411 by Gigas
[January 17, 2018, 12:40:19 PM]


Re: More Jobs Down the Drain Sam's Club Closed 63 Stores today by Gigas
[January 17, 2018, 12:14:07 PM]


Re: Fake Casino Hides Massive Underground Construction of Super Secret Subway... by Gigas
[January 17, 2018, 11:53:15 AM]


Re: Penney for your thoughts by The Seeker
[January 17, 2018, 11:34:56 AM]


Re: Penney for your thoughts by micjer
[January 17, 2018, 11:07:32 AM]


Penney for your thoughts by Sgt.Rocknroll
[January 17, 2018, 04:26:12 AM]


Re: HAPPY BIRTHDAY, Sarge by Sgt.Rocknroll
[January 17, 2018, 03:43:49 AM]


Re: HAPPY BIRTHDAY, Sarge by Smilingtree
[January 16, 2018, 06:56:20 PM]


Re: HAPPY BIRTHDAY, Sarge by thorfourwinds
[January 16, 2018, 05:48:49 PM]


Re: HAPPY BIRTHDAY, Sarge by Sgt.Rocknroll
[January 16, 2018, 04:26:41 PM]


Re: HAPPY BIRTHDAY, Sarge by ArMaP
[January 16, 2018, 07:07:50 AM]


HAPPY BIRTHDAY, Sarge by The Seeker
[January 16, 2018, 05:40:14 AM]


Re: Music You Love by ArMaP
[January 15, 2018, 02:13:35 PM]