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Author Topic: Ok, no planes...but....passenger list, who are these names?  (Read 3896 times)

Offline zorgon

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Re: Ok, no planes...but....passenger list, who are these names?
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2016, 02:01:14 AM »
That image only demonstrates that there wasn't a "blazing inferno" there, it demonstrates nothing about the solidity of the building's structure.

Well the "blazing inferno" is what supposedly melted the steel. If there is no "blazing inferno" then there is no melting of steel. Surely not even YOU believe that a few offic fires can melt steel beams of that size?

Seriously  Go try to melt some steel in your back yard using gasoline and report back to me your results. until then your opinion is of no value :P

 ::)

Offline Pimander

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Re: Ok, no planes...but....passenger list, who are these names?
« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2016, 02:37:33 AM »
Come on Z, it just is not as simple as you just said. ::)

I'll list a few things that also need considering for both sides of the argument.

Look... it doesn't take a rocket scientist :P   Just watch the video... jet fuel burns in a very quick ball of flame. LOOK AT THE DAMN VIDEO :P and count the seconds from 'impact'  The jet fuel fireball lasts exactly 7.5 seconds MOST of it outside the building... SEVEN AND A HALF SECONDS and the jet fuel is gone  POOF The picture of Edna proves that only a few office fires are still burning, not hot enough to even scorch her white pants.
Was all the fuel burned in the 7.5secs?

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Now go out and get some gasoline and pour it over a small steel bar....  Count the number of seconds that it takes for that gasoline to even get that small steel bar red hot, never mind melt.
Heat does more to steel than just met it.  At temperatures below melting point the properties of steel can change.

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If anyone can believe that 7.5 seconds of a jet fuel plume can melt those steel core beams then there is no hope for humanity and the Aliens need to eradicate us immediately
I'm not sure either way.  Please don't exterminate me Aliens!

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problem is NO ONE actually does the math as it were. No one has yet shown jet fuel melting even a small piece of steel.
You don't have to melt steel to destroy a structure.  However, if the reports of molten metal at ground zero are true then.....

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And besides that if you know anything about burning jet fuel, the fuel itself does not burn. The heat comes from the fumes above the fuel and the steel would have to be above that to get hot.  So take five gallons of gasoline and set it on fire....  see how much steel you can melt with that and get back to me
I do know something about it.  Jet fuel when NOT in a jet with optimal oxygen supply burns at a MUCH LOWER TEMPERATURE.  A dirty burn (notice the smoke) in normal air of hydrocarbons take place at less than 370C or 700F.  So if the initial impact and explosion didn't cause the collapse then what did?

But like I say, I don't know for sure what caused the collapse.  I agree that a thermite reaction could do it though.  I don't see how the other building that wasn't hit collapsed.  That is the most obviously suspicious to me,, especially considering the reports of flashes and explosions inside the building by witnesses which were shown on a UK TV documentary.

ETA:  Steel would not be altered at all below 700F
« Last Edit: October 13, 2016, 02:43:36 AM by Pimander »

Offline zorgon

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Re: Ok, no planes...but....passenger list, who are these names?
« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2016, 09:54:00 AM »
Come on Z, it just is not as simple as you just said. ::)

Well actually it IS simple. but people don't want to accept rreality so they find all sorts of complications so they can accept the horror. Humnans tend to over complicate simple solutions yet will rarely actually TEST it to see if it can be duplicated

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I'll list a few things that also need considering for both sides of the argument.
Was all the fuel burned in the 7.5secs?

Doesn't matter... even if it was 10 to 15 minutes of fuel burning jet fuel does not burn hot enough to melt steel. SIMPLE as that. maybe if you added a blast furnace... then maybe...  I have forged steel sword blades in a blast furnace forge. It takes a long time to get that steel hot enough to shape.

Those core beam are huge and thick. Heat would need to be intensely focused on a small area to even begin to get those beams glowing

Now explain to me how those beams were still RED HOT under ground 6 weeks later when they dug them up

 ::)

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Heat does more to steel than just met it.  At temperatures below melting point the properties of steel can change.

Yes it does BUT you fail to consider the sheer mass of those beams and the way heat disperses along a large steel beam. Take an acytelene torch to a thick steel rail and show me how long it takes you to even get it glowing. And a torch is focused heat a lot hotter than jet fuel.

Don't argue maybe's and could bes   Just show me a recreation  It IS that simple... If you claim jet fuel can melt such a beam then do the recreation to prove it. How simple is that? Yet NO ONE has done so.

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I'm not sure either way.  Please don't exterminate me Aliens!

So your a fence sitter... not a real scientist willing to test a SIMPLE experiment :P  Go ahead Aliens... take him out :P

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You don't have to melt steel to destroy a structure.  However, if the reports of molten metal at ground zero are true then.....

True but the engineers built it to withstand SEVERAL plane crashes. And many other buildings have had planes crash into them and had extremely severe fires hot enough that you can see molten metal dripping (like that recent one in Dubai)  yet NO DAMAGE was done to the core beams. The ONLY time in history that happened was 911

And yes the molten metal is real

6 weeks later  See for yourself




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I do know something about it.  Jet fuel when NOT in a jet with optimal oxygen supply burns at a MUCH LOWER TEMPERATURE.  A dirty burn (notice the smoke) in normal air of hydrocarbons take place at less than 370C or 700F.  So if the initial impact and explosion didn't cause the collapse then what did?

I go with PARTICAL BEAM  That can explain the vaporization and the fact that the steel was still hot 6 weeks later. Even THERMITE burns would not stay hot very long. The only way the steel would stay hot is if something changed the molecular structure. 

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But like I say, I don't know for sure what caused the collapse.  I agree that a thermite reaction could do it though.  I don't see how the other building that wasn't hit collapsed.  That is the most obviously suspicious to me,, especially considering the reports of flashes and explosions inside the building by witnesses which were shown on a UK TV documentary.

Or the fact that the UK TV reported Building 7 had collapsed when you can still see it standing behind the reporter :P OOPS



 ::)

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ETA:  Steel would not be altered at all below 700F

It would certainly NOT turn to dust in seconds as did the remaining core :D Watch at :44



« Last Edit: October 13, 2016, 09:57:32 AM by zorgon »

Offline zorgon

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Re: Ok, no planes...but....passenger list, who are these names?
« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2016, 10:21:49 AM »
For your viewing pleasure...or not...

great  So now we have a (supposed) passenger list. And yes I see a lot of arabic names on that too :P

Now all we need to do is search the OBITURAIES and see if these people are actually dead.

Sorry guys but this always irritates the hell out of me.  Are births and death records public the same as in the UK?  Here all births and deaths are recorded in the registry of births and deaths.  That is how we know who is British and alive.  You have similar surely?

Surely we do yes... but that would require actual WORK to dig through the records and match them up.

Here is the thing... you would only need to find ONE PERSON on that list that isn't dead. :P

Just ONE and the house of cards crumbles

At Least 7 of the 9/11
Hijackers are Still Alive

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/hijackers.html


Offline zorgon

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Re: Ok, no planes...but....passenger list, who are these names?
« Reply #19 on: October 13, 2016, 10:31:22 AM »
THIS little hole is where that plane vanished into...

First responders to Shanksville 'crash'



Not ONE piece of airplane wreckage, no bodies, no suitcaes debris, nada, zip, nothing

These guys are just meandering about wondering what's up :P



Old satellite footage shows that the Shanksville hole was there BEFORE the crash.

1994 Shanksville gash from mining at the exact location



Despite what they want you to believe airplanes do NOT just vaporize without a trace

Offline larishira

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Re: Ok, no planes...but....passenger list, who are these names?
« Reply #20 on: October 13, 2016, 01:01:02 PM »
Did you know that 9 of the 12 terrorists are alive?
"The quieter you become, the more you are able to hear"

Offline ArMaP

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Re: Ok, no planes...but....passenger list, who are these names?
« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2016, 01:26:32 PM »
Well the "blazing inferno" is what supposedly melted the steel.
Really? Who says that?

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If there is no "blazing inferno" then there is no melting of steel.
There's no need for the steel to melt for a steel structure have a catastrophic failure.

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Surely not even YOU believe that a few offic fires can melt steel beams of that size?
I don't believe that any steel was melt soon after the planes hit the buildings.

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Seriously  Go try to melt some steel in your back yard using gasoline and report back to me your results. until then your opinion is of no value :P
Two things:
1 - the fuel used on the planes was not gasoline, jet planes use a type of fuel that is closer to kerosene;
2 - I don't have a back yard.

And my opinion has the same value as any other from any person that knows little or nothing about steel structures, like most people talking about this.

Offline larishira

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Re: Ok, no planes...but....passenger list, who are these names?
« Reply #22 on: October 13, 2016, 01:46:34 PM »
Really? Who says that?
There's no need for the steel to melt for a steel structure have a catastrophic failure.
I don't believe that any steel was melt soon after the planes hit the buildings.
Two things:
1 - the fuel used on the planes was not gasoline, jet planes use a type of fuel that is closer to kerosene;
2 - I don't have a back yard.

And my opinion has the same value as any other from any person that knows little or nothing about steel structures, like most people talking about this.

Are  you physical, chemical or engineer????
"The quieter you become, the more you are able to hear"

Offline zorgon

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Re: Ok, no planes...but....passenger list, who are these names?
« Reply #23 on: October 13, 2016, 01:51:35 PM »
And my opinion has the same value as any other from any person that knows little or nothing about steel structures, like most people talking about this.

You are right  Any person who knows little or nothing about steel cannot have a valuable opinion :P

And gasoline, jet fuel, Kerosene...  all are pretty much the same stuff in their effect on steel :P


Offline zorgon

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Re: Ok, no planes...but....passenger list, who are these names?
« Reply #24 on: October 13, 2016, 01:53:31 PM »
Are  you physical, chemical or engineer????

No he isn't :P 

But he is right when he says "I don't believe that any steel was melt soon after the planes hit the buildings."

 8)

...because no planes hit the buildings :p

Offline larishira

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Re: Ok, no planes...but....passenger list, who are these names?
« Reply #25 on: October 13, 2016, 01:54:28 PM »
You are right  Any person who knows little or nothing about steel cannot have a valuable opinion :P

And gasoline, jet fuel, Kerosene...  all are pretty much the same stuff in their effect on steel :P

maybe we should listen the enginners...

"The quieter you become, the more you are able to hear"

Offline larishira

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Re: Ok, no planes...but....passenger list, who are these names?
« Reply #26 on: October 13, 2016, 01:57:21 PM »
No he isn't :P 

But he is right when he says "I don't believe that any steel was melt soon after the planes hit the buildings."

 8)

...because no planes hit the buildings :p

I did physics and studied almost 6 months on buildings and knowledge I say, they were imploded, but for all we know, the WTC had a self implosion system, but had to be activated 5 minutes before the plane hit !
"The quieter you become, the more you are able to hear"

Offline ArMaP

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Re: Ok, no planes...but....passenger list, who are these names?
« Reply #27 on: October 13, 2016, 03:03:39 PM »
Are  you physical, chemical or engineer????
Seeing that I can touch things I suppose I'm physical. ;)

But no, I'm not an engineer.

Offline ArMaP

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Re: Ok, no planes...but....passenger list, who are these names?
« Reply #28 on: October 13, 2016, 03:05:47 PM »
You are right  Any person who knows little or nothing about steel cannot have a valuable opinion :P
Now I have to ask: what are your qualifications about steel?

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And gasoline, jet fuel, Kerosene...  all are pretty much the same stuff in their effect on steel :P
Not really, as they have different behaviours and burn at different temperatures.

Offline zorgon

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Re: Ok, no planes...but....passenger list, who are these names?
« Reply #29 on: October 13, 2016, 03:32:41 PM »
Now I have to ask: what are your qualifications about steel?

I have a welding certificate and can weld brass and aluminum as well. Welding aluminum is no easy task and my instructor was amazed at how fast I picked it up and showed him how it was done :P

I have made swords from both normal (soft) steel and 1040 carbon steel. So has my son.  I learned this from an armorer in our medieval group who was a master blacksmith and I have learned a few tricks from master Atar of Salamader Armory here in las Vegas, one of the finest sword smiths in the world (literally)

I have also worked with titanium and have a sheet of 1/4 inch thick pure titanium I want tyo make into swords but that requires a plasma cutting torch for extreme high heat and I can't afford one of those so the sheet of titanium sits in my garage.

I also majored in chemistry and metalurgy back in school.  The jewelry skills I have learned allow me to weld gold and silver.

Each metal has its own unique properties like melting point etc. You learn very quickly how much heat you need to weld, to cut or to melt each metal. If you don't, you work will quickly be destroyed

Aluminum is tricky to weld because it is the one metal that gives you no sign that it is ready. it just suddenly melts when you get too hot.

And no it does NOT vaporize like those 'airplanes' did. Just melts into blobs.  Since Aluminum oxide is what forms corundum (ruby, sapphire) the second hardest material on earth. aluminum oxide is used as a polish for rocks. But it does not magically vaporize into thin air as happened on that magical day we call 9/11





Not really, as they have different behaviours and burn at different temperatures.
[/quote]

 


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