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Author Topic: Cross Seas - Square Waves  (Read 2465 times)

Offline zorgon

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Cross Seas - Square Waves
« on: November 24, 2015, 01:10:24 AM »
Cross Seas - Square Waves

So... I have been sailing since I was 10 years old... started on a Schooner... then later a Brigantine...

In all my years I have NEVER seen or heard of this phenomena...

I have never seen it in photo, or videos...

I have never heard any old timer EVER mention it...



Now Wikipedia has only a very short page on this  and one photo

Quote
In surface navigation, a cross sea is a sea state with two wave systems traveling at oblique angles. This may occur when water waves from one weather system continue despite a shift in wind. Waves generated by the new wind run at an angle to the old, creating a shifting, dangerous pattern. Until the older waves have dissipated, they create a sea hazard among the most perilous.

A cross swell is generated when the wave systems are longer period swell, rather than short period wind generated waves.

References
"Cross Sea". Glossary of Meteorology. American Meteorological Society. Retrieved 2007-11-28.
Jump up ^ Bowditch, Nathaniel (1995).
"Glossary C" (PDF). The American Practical Navigator. Bethesda, MD: National Imagery and Mapping Agency. p. 758. ISBN 0-403-09895-5.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_sea

Quote
cross sea

A sea state of wind-generated ocean waves that consists of nonparallel wave systems.
A cross sea has a large amount of directional spreading.

http://glossary.ametsoc.org/wiki/Cross_sea

That is all I find... the pdf is not available at that link...

A few more pictures







Now naturally the Internet 'experts' are screaming HAARP...

But I cannot say I think they are natural either :P

Offline Eighthman

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Re: Cross Seas - Square Waves
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2015, 05:59:11 AM »
Sounds like something from a William Corliss book.

Offline ArMaP

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Re: Cross Seas - Square Waves
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2015, 02:00:30 PM »
But I cannot say I think they are natural either :P
Why not? What do you think makes it impossible for that to be a natural phenomenon?

It reminds of that giant wave we have here in Portugal, in Nazaré, as that's the result of the wind coming from a specific direction, the waves from a specific direction and the shape of the ground under water.

Offline zorgon

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Re: Cross Seas - Square Waves
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2015, 03:20:09 PM »
Why not? What do you think makes it impossible for that to be a natural phenomenon?

The fact that no one has heard of this phenomena BEFORE :P I have spent days searching for references. Doesn't mean that there aren't any  but so far not found them.

I am well aware of interference patterns  but these square patterns are new as far as I can find so far
Maybe a glitch in the Matrix :P

That is why I posted them  to find out more :P

Offline WarToad

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Re: Cross Seas - Square Waves
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2015, 01:08:58 PM »
I only find articles going back to 12/2013, but this isn't unheard of.

http://tywkiwdbi.blogspot.com/2013/12/cross-sea-and-cross-swell.html

I've seen these before sailing off the San Juan Straights off Victoria. (circa 2000-2008 when I lived in Seattle)  You get an Alaskan storm swell from the north and a Hawaiian storm swell from the west the intersecting swells will create a grid pattern if the wave crest/trough interval is roughly the same.  If the swells are from a tighter angle it's a diamond pattern. I've only seen it twice and I/we always turned tail and headed home because it's a biz-nitch to sail through.  At the point the two swells come together the crest increases in size and just pounds smaller craft.  They weren't as sharply defined as these pictures, but definitely in a geometric grid.

I think in the Pacific NW is more of a seasonal thing with the Pacific storm season. (roughly July-Nov.)

Googling, interesting historical note from 1926 a US Coast Guard ship taking damage from being in a winter storm with cross seas.
http://www.uscg.mil/history/cutters/WLV/LV90.asp
Time is the fire in which we burn.

Offline zorgon

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Re: Cross Seas - Square Waves
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2015, 02:39:14 PM »
I only find articles going back to 12/2013, but this isn't unheard of.

Yeah not a lot on this  As I said I have seen interference patterns from waves but this perfectly square pattern is just unreal..

There are several locations where cross swells (tidal) create whirlpools...

Then there is THIS story of whirlpools that just suddenly appeared in the Atlantic

Scientists puzzled by giant whirlpools that have appeared in the Atlantic Ocean
Posted on April 12, 2011


Quote
April 13, 2011 – SAO PAULO – U.S. scientists discovered two giant whirlpools in the Atlantic Ocean, off the coast of Guyana and Suriname. It became a sensational discovery because this part of the ocean has been studied thoroughly, and no one expected anything like that to appear in the area. More importantly, no one can understand where the whirlpools came from and what surprises they may bring to people. According to Brazilian scientist Guilherme Castellane, the two funnels are approximately 400 kilometers in diameter. Until now, these were not known on Earth. The funnels reportedly exert a strong influence on climate changes that have been registered during the recent years. “Funnels rotate clockwise. They are moving in the ocean like giant frisbees, two discs thrown into the air. Rotation occurs at a rate of one meter per second, the speed is sufficiently large compared to the speed of oceanic currents, on the border hoppers is a wave-step height of 40 cm,” Castellane said. Even during the dry months, when the movement of oceanic currents and the flow of the Amazon River practically comes to a standstill, the funnels do not disappear. Therefore, the nature of the funnels does not depend on the flow of water, which one of the world’s biggest rivers brings into the ocean. The natural phenomenon, which creates the whirlpools, is unknown to modern science.

https://theextinctionprotocol.wordpress.com/2011/04/12/scientists-puzzled-by-giant-whirlpools-that-have-appeared-in-the-atlantic-ocean/

http://thewatchers.adorraeli.com/2011/04/13/giant-ocean-whirlpools-puzzle-scientists/


Quote
Googling, interesting historical note from 1926 a US Coast Guard ship taking damage from being in a winter storm with cross seas.
http://www.uscg.mil/history/cutters/WLV/LV90.asp

Good one :D  So it does seem they are rare then

On Feb 10, ENE gale with sleet and snow caused heavy icing; both lights extinguished at 0300 and fog signal malfunctioned due to icing; heavy cross seas boarding ship continuously and dragged into breakers SW of station; regained station when wind diminished at 2300

Offline ArMaP

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Re: Cross Seas - Square Waves
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2015, 03:04:30 PM »
The fact that no one has heard of this phenomena BEFORE :P I have spent days searching for references. Doesn't mean that there aren't any  but so far not found them.
Did you search for "cross swell"?
I know nothing about it, but it looks like a slightly different name for the same phenomena.

PS: although I was born and have lived all my life near the sea I have never been aboard a boat or ship on the sea, only on the ferries that cross the Tagus river.

Offline zorgon

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Re: Cross Seas - Square Waves
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2015, 03:17:11 PM »
Did you search for "cross swell"?

yeah I did  pretty much brings up the same few pictures



I did find THIS page though (didn't come up under cross sea before  odd that)

Cross Sea: When Two Waves Meet

Quote
This strange pattern at sea is what happens when two wave systems cross each other at nearly perpendicular angles. This can occur when waves generated by one weather system collides with waves generated by another weather system, usually at a place that is far away from both weather systems.

Waves can travel thousands of kilometers over the surface of the water. Even on the calmest days, storms raging elsewhere on the ocean create rolling waves that radiate away from the storm and washes the shore of distant land. These are called swells, which is different from ocean waves raised by the local wind. Another term for wind waves generated and affected by local winds is “wind sea”. All swells start as wind sea, but after a while the wind ceases to blow and the waves have travelled so far out that it’s no longer generated or significantly affected by the local wind at that time. Then it becomes a swell. When two swells coming from two different directions collide, we get “cross sea”, which is what is happening in this picture.

Most of the pictures are the same ones and a few seem to be on the beach were the previous wave is returning



http://www.amusingplanet.com/2015/08/cross-seas-when-two-waves-meet.html


Quote
I know nothing about it, but it looks like a slightly different name for the same phenomena.

yeah seems they are the same

Quote
PS: although I was born and have lived all my life near the sea I have never been aboard a boat or ship on the sea, only on the ferries that cross the Tagus river.

Land Lubber!!! :P

Offline ArMaP

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Re: Cross Seas - Square Waves
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2015, 05:31:34 PM »
Land Lubber!!! :P
I don't even know how to swim.  :(

 


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