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Author Topic: Cowspiracy Documentary & Future Foods  (Read 6662 times)

Offline ArMaP

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Re: Cowspiracy Documentary & Future Foods
« Reply #30 on: October 24, 2015, 04:15:20 PM »
Actually he agrees with you as he said " :P
Not really, as it's written in a way that implies that humans are carnivores.

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The point really is Man can change and live well as proved by many intelligent people and athletes around the world. Humans are no longer living in the wild. Old habits die hard.
Being omnivorous is not a habit, is how we are made.
That's why we are supposed to get vitamin B12 from meat, Omega-3 acids from fish and calcium from milk (although there are many sources of calcium). Besides that, there are also things that, when taken from an animal source are more easily absorbed by our body, like iron and zinc, so people with a vegetarian diet need more of those two than a person on an omnivorous diet.


Offline ArMaP

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Re: Cowspiracy Documentary & Future Foods
« Reply #31 on: October 24, 2015, 04:22:30 PM »
I am sorry I just assumed this was clear that the things hard to look at in the food industry as in ingredients animal abuse of the most horrific kinds these things that are well known today but many will not make themselves delve deeper into because it is not comfortable.
You shouldn't assume people understand what you mean, specially if you write sentences without any punctuation like the one above. To me, it's extremely difficult to understand, as in Portuguese we have a different way of connecting sentences and without punctuation I tend to connect (and break) sentences in the wrong places. :)

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I do believe the more intelligent people will not hide their heads in the sand but will look at the full picture no matter how unpleasant and things will change drastically someday and we will all follow in the footsteps of those greats.
So, if we have a different point of view we are not intelligent, is that it?  :P

Offline ArMaP

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Re: Cowspiracy Documentary & Future Foods
« Reply #32 on: October 24, 2015, 04:25:01 PM »
Carnivores or not, we humans are not really designed in a way that best suits the eating of meats. I have seen this such statement over and over during the years. We are designed to eat as herbivores, and not designed to eat meats, but, yes we do, and just maybe therein lies so many of our basic body problems.
Then why do we need vitamin B12 found in meat? And why do we absorb better the iron and zinc from meat than from vegetables?

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Here is a pic on the whys of basic such thoughts, and the link for these thoughts and others on this.

http://www.vegan-nutritionista.com/humans-are-herbivores.html


As usual they compare vegetarians with carnivores, ignoring what we really are, omnivorous.  ::)

Offline Dyna

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Re: Cowspiracy Documentary & Future Foods
« Reply #33 on: October 25, 2015, 05:53:49 PM »
Then why do we need vitamin B12 found in meat? And why do we absorb better the iron and zinc from meat than from vegetables?
As usual they compare vegetarians with carnivores, ignoring what we really are, omnivorous.  ::)

Most of the people i know don't eat meat, their children were raised without meat we can change.

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vegans are taking their B12 from the same source as every other animal on the planet - micro-organisms - without causing suffering to any sentient being or causing environmental damage.
When the debate is lost,
slander becomes the tool of the loser.
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Offline ArMaP

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Re: Cowspiracy Documentary & Future Foods
« Reply #34 on: October 25, 2015, 06:00:22 PM »
Most of the people i know don't eat meat, their children were raised without meat we can change.
Why, because some people say so? No, I will keep on acting according to nature and not to what some people tell me. :)

PS: vitamin B12 is created by micro-organisms that we do not have on our bodies, if we have to use methods that are not natural that should prove that it's not a natural thing.

Offline zorgon

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Re: Cowspiracy Documentary & Future Foods
« Reply #35 on: October 25, 2015, 08:45:58 PM »
The Human body requires a certain amount of PROTEINS.  These proteins are created by the body from Amino Acids

You cannot get ALL the amino acids you need from a Vegan diet

You CAN from a vegetarian diet as they eat DAIRY products\

BTW COWS also need meat and eat several hundred pounds a year :P

Yes they do :P in the form of APHIDS and other insects on the plants they eat

 ::)

Offline Dyna

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Re: Cowspiracy Documentary & Future Foods
« Reply #36 on: October 26, 2015, 04:41:35 PM »
Why, because some people say so? No, I will keep on acting according to nature and not to what some people tell me. :)

PS: vitamin B12 is created by micro-organisms that we do not have on our bodies, if we have to use methods that are not natural that should prove that it's not a natural thing.

Natural ::), ok well I don't think many people eat natural today!

In the first place I read a study which said that a large number of American children in cities think Beef comes from the store. ??? If you are going to eat another living creature, it certainly deserves some respect (have you seen the American process for raising and slaughtering cows?) :'(

A person who will take a life to overfill their belly should at least see the animal killed and gutted or will a child want "chicken nuggets" after they themselves cut the chickens neck and gut and clean it?

I raised chickens and pigs and was there for the slaughter of those and cows and watched them all fight for their lives and scream in their fear. :-[

Having a petting zoos where children feed the farm animals and the children and parents say "how precious, how cute" but then not realizing the same creatures are what is so neatly packaged for them in the supermarket and ground and pressed to nuggets at fast food causes lack of respect.

What is natural for evolving humans? Polyester cloths made from oil? So B-12 can be lab made...
Things that don't change don't last. We have the means to change and make the planet healthier but those who don't want that should in the very least respect the lives they take IMO.

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Though meat consumption in the U.S. has dropped off slightly in recent years, at 270.7 pounds per person a year, we still eat more meat per person here than in almost any other country on the planet.

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Consequences of increased global meat consumption on the global environment -- trade in virtual water, energy & nutrients
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So much of the problem comes down to the individual consumer, he stressed, adding that one solution could be to get people in developed countries to eat less meat and to consider how and where the meat that they do eat is produced.
https://woods.stanford.edu/environmental-venture-projects/consequences-increased-global-meat-consumption-global-environment
When the debate is lost,
slander becomes the tool of the loser.
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Offline ArMaP

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Re: Cowspiracy Documentary & Future Foods
« Reply #37 on: October 26, 2015, 05:54:16 PM »
In the first place I read a study which said that a large number of American children in cities think Beef comes from the store. ???
I read some years ago that someone asked school children (I think it was in California) and most didn't know that the food called "chicken" was an animal.

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If you are going to eat another living creature, it certainly deserves some respect (have you seen the American process for raising and slaughtering cows?) :'(
I agree, but why should other people suffer the consequences of what some people in the US do? Trying to force vegetarianism on people just because the meat industry in the US only sees money is unrealistic.

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A person who will take a life to overfill their belly should at least see the animal killed and gutted or will a child want "chicken nuggets" after they themselves cut the chickens neck and gut and clean it?
I helped my grandmother kill chickens and rabbits many times, and never had a problem eating the chickens (I didn't eat the rabbits because I don't like rabbit).

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What is natural for evolving humans? Polyester cloths made from oil? So B-12 can be lab made...
I avoid using synthetic cloth, the body doesn't breath the same way under those, as synthetic fibres are not porous like natural fibres, and the difference is noticeable.

The fact that we can have now synthetic sources of some nutrients doesn't mean that we are herbivores, we are still omnivores.

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Things that don't change don't last. We have the means to change and make the planet healthier but those who don't want that should in the very least respect the lives they take IMO.
And what about the lives of the plants, they are alive too.

Offline zorgon

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Re: Cowspiracy Documentary & Future Foods
« Reply #38 on: October 26, 2015, 09:16:07 PM »
Yes plants have feelings and show fear as well. We di that experiment back in high school  with a galvanometer... 

Vegetarians dismiss it :P because the screaming is not audible to human ears... but nevertheless they DO scream.   

Place a galvanometer on a plant and think  "I am going to shred your leaves and break your branches" and watch the meter go crazy... So in effect plants can read minds

They also prefer classical music over hard rock :D

The Secret Life of Plants

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On a night in 1966 interrogation specialist Cleve Backster taught how to perform lie detection to policemen. On a whim, Backster attached electrodes of a galvanometer to a nearby dracaena plant. A galvanometer is an instrument that detects minute electric currents, often used as a part of the polygraph lie detector. When Backster began to water the plant, the galvanometer did not show the same growth in electrical conductivity as he would have expected. Instead, the needle of the galvanometer started to move downward, a response often only seen with surges of human emotion. Caught completely by surprise, Backster started formulating ideas about plant conscience. Because he knew that that some of the strongest emotional stimuli came from life-threatening situations, Backster thought about burning the actual leaf the electrodes were attached to. Before he could reach for a match, the tracing pattern on the graph swept upwards as if in response to the thought of threat. These 10 short minutes changed Backster’s life and gave him the idea of plant sentience—an idea so grand that it later was coined into the term “the Backster effect.”

Harvard Science Review

http://harvardsciencereview.com/2014/01/22/the-secret-life-of-plants/

So.. any Vegetarian that is trying to bully meat eaters but ignoring the torment they cause plants is a

HIPPOTWIT

 ::)

Offline Dyna

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Re: Cowspiracy Documentary & Future Foods
« Reply #39 on: October 26, 2015, 09:48:48 PM »
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Vegetarians dismiss it :P because the screaming is not audible to human ears... but nevertheless they DO scream.   

First off I am hoping for change but I don't want to force anything on anyone.

Second I don't believe many vegetarians dismiss plants lives but plants mostly live a normal and cared for life and many kinds are not even killed for our food, faced with the treatment of animals today compared to plants, plants are the clear choice for me.
When the debate is lost,
slander becomes the tool of the loser.
Socrates

Offline zorgon

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Re: Cowspiracy Documentary & Future Foods
« Reply #40 on: October 27, 2015, 02:05:16 AM »
many kinds are not even killed for our food, faced with the treatment of animals today compared to plants, plants are the clear choice for me.

Have you seen what a Harvester does to corn plants? 



I respect your choice but it sounds like your willing to accept plant abuse :P

Now excuse me while I satisfy the urge to try to eat a Jethro Burger








Offline dreb13

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Re: Cowspiracy Documentary & Future Foods
« Reply #41 on: October 27, 2015, 07:09:49 AM »
The main focus of the Cowspiracy documentary is that the current process of cattle being raised for meat and dairy consumption is not sustainable and requires an tremendous amount of resources to create a final product.

The amount of land that is required to raise cattle to graze on, or raise crops in order to FEED the cattle is entirely too wasteful when you look at the growing population of Hu-mons on Earth.  The amount of water that is provided for a cow to drink (30-50 gallons per day) along with the water needed to grow crops in order to FEED cows, (not Hu-mons) is equally wasteful.  Lets not get into all of the runoff from all of the waste that is a byproduct of the agriculture business which contributes to even more environmental problems. 

The math is pretty simple with this problem.  More people eating beef = less land and water for those same people.  As the population increases, there is less and less resources to go around for Hu-mons since the cows are consuming all of it.

That is why there is a need for "Future Foods" where land can be used to grow plants, the plants can then  be infused with muscle tissue from stem cells from cows in order to make a better tasting "veggie burger."  The amount of land that is required to accomplish this is vastly smaller than the land that is needed to raise cattle.

As a meat eater, I would welcome any kind of alternative that is nutritious and tastes like meat.  However, its hard to conform to that line of thinking whenever I also feel that food should be "natural."  I don't feel right with GMO's in our crops and I would have to be thoroughly convinced that beef that is grown in a lab is not harmful.

With all of the talk on this site about Secret Space Programs and Aliens, you'd have to wonder just what all of those spacemen are eating when they're flying around out there.  I doubt that they have an abattoir on their ships.


Offline ArMaP

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Re: Cowspiracy Documentary & Future Foods
« Reply #42 on: October 27, 2015, 08:38:23 AM »
The amount of land that is required to raise cattle to graze on, or raise crops in order to FEED the cattle is entirely too wasteful when you look at the growing population of Hu-mons on Earth.  The amount of water that is provided for a cow to drink (30-50 gallons per day) along with the water needed to grow crops in order to FEED cows, (not Hu-mons) is equally wasteful.  Lets not get into all of the runoff from all of the waste that is a byproduct of the agriculture business which contributes to even more environmental problems.
From what I could see on that FAO report that is one of the sources for Cowspiracy, there's a big difference in efficiency of the several methods used, so an adjustment of the methods would be a first logical step.

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The math is pretty simple with this problem.  More people eating beef = less land and water for those same people.  As the population increases, there is less and less resources to go around for Hu-mons since the cows are consuming all of it.
I don't know if the math is that simple, how much land would we need to grow the vegetables needed for the whole population? Meat may be more wasteful in production but is also a better source of protein and energy.

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That is why there is a need for "Future Foods" where land can be used to grow plants, the plants can then  be infused with muscle tissue from stem cells from cows in order to make a better tasting "veggie burger."  The amount of land that is required to accomplish this is vastly smaller than the land that is needed to raise cattle.
Do you have a source for that last sentence? I have been looking for it but haven't found one yet.

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As a meat eater, I would welcome any kind of alternative that is nutritious and tastes like meat.  However, its hard to conform to that line of thinking whenever I also feel that food should be "natural."  I don't feel right with GMO's in our crops and I would have to be thoroughly convinced that beef that is grown in a lab is not harmful.
I agree, that applies to all the alternatives, we first should have enough data to be able to make a choice.

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With all of the talk on this site about Secret Space Programs and Aliens, you'd have to wonder just what all of those spacemen are eating when they're flying around out there.  I doubt that they have an abattoir on their ships.
Maybe there aren't any living beings flying around, that would solve that problem. ;)

Offline rdunk

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Re: Cowspiracy Documentary & Future Foods
« Reply #43 on: October 27, 2015, 09:33:14 AM »
deleted duplicate reply
« Last Edit: October 27, 2015, 09:51:13 AM by rdunk »

Offline dreb13

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Re: Cowspiracy Documentary & Future Foods
« Reply #44 on: October 27, 2015, 09:43:21 AM »

I don't know if the math is that simple, how much land would we need to grow the vegetables needed for the whole population? Meat may be more wasteful in production but is also a better source of protein and energy.

Do you have a source for that last sentence? I have been looking for it but haven't found one yet.


Why going meatless is important


"Going vegetarian is the easiest and quickest way to lower your carbon footprint, reduce pollution, and save energy and water. That's because meat production requires staggering amounts of land, water, and energy, compared to plant foods. Let's explore that now."

Gallons of water required to produce one pound
of various foods


Number of people whose caloric needs
can be met on 2.5 acres of land
for the following food


source: http://michaelbluejay.com/veg/environment.html

As the Earths population increases, the amount of land needed to raise cattle increases as well. 

Maybe there aren't any living beings flying around, that would solve that problem. ;)



We're getting there!   ;) 8)

 


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