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Author Topic: Searching for ET Life! What you all FORGOT  (Read 2074 times)

Offline zorgon

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Searching for ET Life! What you all FORGOT
« on: July 20, 2015, 02:28:20 PM »
Searching for ET Life!  What you all FORGOT

Yes this is a little tongue in cheek but it is tile to show a little reality and WHY it is so hard to find ET life via a radio telescope.

Radio was invented on Earth;

An August 1894 lecture by the British physicist Oliver Lodge, where he transmitted and received "Hertzian waves" at distances up to 50 meters, was followed up a year later with experiments by Indian physicist Jagadish Bose in radio microwave optics and construction of a radio based lightning detector by Russian physicist Alexander Stepanovich Popov. Starting in late 1894, Guglielmo Marconi began pursuing the idea of building a wireless telegraphy system based on Hertzian waves (radio). Marconi gained a patent on the system in 1896 and developed it into a commercial communication system over the next few years

Now those early radio waves were not very powerful and had a limited range.

So the question is WHEN did our radio signals become STRONG enough for the signal to be intelligible over a distance of say 20 light years?

Effectively we have had radio for a little over 100 years... but I would say 80 years or so where we had decent radio of any strength. Those early TV signals would be nothing but noise once they reached 20 light years from earth

So what you are all forgetting is that radio waves travel at the  SPEED OF LIGHT in space...

Within a radius of 100 light years there are relatively few stars... and so far we have only found a few planets on THOSE stars (Gliess 581 system being one with 6 planets confirmed)

Any Alien living at the 50-60 LY distance is JUST NOW watching us fight World War TWO, any Aliens beyond 100 LY have not even heard us yet...

So unless they are already in the vicinity, no one knows we are here  :P

Hello from Earth.... a few years ago they sent a powerful signal to Gliess System  using the Puerto Rico dish...  the website is already down but still on the Wayback Machine  That signal will take another 14 YEARS 215 DAYS to get there and that system is only 20.5 LY away

https://web.archive.org/web/20090815094007/http://www.hellofromearth.net/gliese581d/links/index.htm

The TOP message? 

Hello Gliese 581d inhabitant. Can you help us humans travel through space and become smart like you. Please do not eat us we are a friendly race.
Angus Pigott
Canberra, Australia


https://web.archive.org/web/20120508162320/http://www.hellofromearth.net/gliese581d/topmessages/index.htm


We have had several possible signals from space...  the recent WoW signal and the laser like signal (posted on livingmoon)  but they are just momentary blips and never reacquired

Okay so now lets have a look at WHY it is so hard to acquire a signal




Offline zorgon

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Re: Searching for ET Life! What you all FORGOT
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2015, 02:34:44 PM »
THE EARTH MOVES

Yes yes you all know that right?  But DO YOU KNOW IT?

And so do all the other planets, stars etc 

Let us assume for a minute that your job is SPACE NAVUGATOR  and you have to be able to find your way home...

Let us look first at just the Earth

The Secrets of the Universe
What is the Speed of the Earth?




This page deals with the actual speed of the Earth moving through space. There are many directions of travel and various speeds that have to be taken into consideration. We will divide this into categories and will provide two explanations. One in lay terms so the average person may easily understand the complex movements our planet and the other in scentific details.
Why is this of importance?

Why is this of importance? For any discussion on the posibility or the probabiliy of space flight dealing with interstellar flight, it is necessary to have this data.

Imagine for a moment that you have a faster than light or warp capable star ship...

Considering the speed at which the Earth moves, even a short mission away from Earth would result in the planet being millions of miles away from the point of origin at the time you left. Nasa calculations to reach a simple point like the Moon require enormous calculations and pin point accuracy. Any small error left uncompensated would result in Astronauts missing the Earth on return.

Motion, Speed and Direction of Travel of Earth Through Space
Or

"How the Hell Do I Calculate the Way Home"
A study by R. Schmidt July 21, 2006

Disclaimer:The following figures are approximate values for demonstartion only! Please DO NOT use them to calculate actual flight paths. We are not responsible for people getting "Lost in Space".

Consider yourself sitting at your computer on a chair...How fast are you moving?

1. The Earth "wobbles" on its polar axis.  This motion is not relevant (IMO) to the calculations needed to return to earth from interstellar space as it is an "in situ" motion, but it exists.

2. The Earth revolves {spins} on its axis. For these calculations we will use the equator with a circumference of approx. 25,000 miles. One rotation of Earth is approx. 24 hours. Again this is "in situ" motion so not relevant to space travel, but adds to our "stationary chair" model
25000/24 =1041.7 MPH

3. The Earth is orbiting the Sun once a year. The circumference of the Earth's orbit is approx.  607.6  million miles {or 940 million kilometers}. One year is approx. 365 days
365 days X 24 = 8760 hours
607,600,000/8760 = 69,360.73 MPH

So far we have basically 3 Directions of Motion {Wobble, Spin and Orbit} and a combined speed of 1041.70 + 69,360.73 = 70,402.43 MPH for a person sitting in a chair at the Equator. 
{Note: We will do the actual vector calculations at the end}

The following source gives more detail and a more precise calculation based on your latitude and more exact figures. Anyone dizzy yet? A little motion sickness perhaps?

NASA - What is the speed of the Earth?

When you take into account the three-dimensional picture of the Sun's movement through our Milky Way Galaxy, things get very complicated.

4. The sun {and hence the solar system} is moving towards the constellation Hercules, namely to the star Lambda Herculis at 12 miles per second {or 20 kilometers per second} which is 43,200 MPH

5. The Solar system is also moving upwards, at 90 degrees to the plane of the Milky Way, at 4.34 miles per second or 15,624 MPH. But we are actually leaving the Galaxy, out about 50 light years now and will be moving out to 250 light years before it reverses. Details of the mechanics of this are explained in the link below. We also crossed the Galactic plane 2 million years ago.

6. The Solar system is orbiting around the Galaxy at an "estimated" speed of 124 miles per second {or 200 kilometers per second} which is 446,400 MPH. The way that figure has been calculated can be found at the link below.

Stanford University - What is the speed of the Solar System?



This is where finding our way home becomes difficult, as we do NOT have an actual true figure for this calculation. The further out we go, taking into account the various motions and speed, the more difficult it becomes to get precise calculations ergo the more room for error. Until we can actually go and measure the distances, a "best guess" is all we have. Over the past few decades these values have been revised several times, and are constantly being added to today.

From an Astronomer's point of view  this is not a problem, as they are merely observing from Earth and can fix their calculations when they get new data… no harm done… just reprint the maps.

BUT from a spaceship pilot point of view…touring just within our own galaxy… the problems are enormous.

From a navigator's point of view, we can leave out the "wobble" and the Earth's rotation as those movements are "in place". For later calculations we could also leave out the Earth orbiting the Sun, because if we can make it back to the Sun, I am sure we can locate Earth.

So our "armchair Astronaut" is now moving through 6 different directions and a combined speed of approximately 574,585 MPH

  69,361 MPH Spin and Orbit
  43,200 MPH Towards Lambda Herculis
  15,624 MPH Perpendicular to Galactic Plane
446,400 MPH Orbiting the Galactic Center {or Galactic Spin Rate}
-------------------
574,585 MPH Speed of Earth within Our Galaxy

So for every hour you are away from the solar system, your planet is moving half a million miles, and in several directions…

Now if you want to leave the galaxy add another 1,339,200 MPH to the calculations. This is the speed the galaxy is moving through the universe. But THEN you really get into difficulties pin pointing you reference point. Details can be found here…

So you see… the propulsion unit is the least of your worries…. 
You better have a REALLY GOOD NAVIGATOR.

NASA - What is the Speed of our Galaxy?

Offline zorgon

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Re: Searching for ET Life! What you all FORGOT
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2015, 02:35:43 PM »
YOU ARE HERE



Oh and about that vector calculation thing? … 
Forget it I have a headache! … 
Go ask a rocket scientist! ...

WANTED: ROCKET SCIENTIST...
JOB: Provide Accurate measurements and vector details for the Scientific Explanation
PAY: The Satisfaction that comes from sharing your knowledge.

Offline zorgon

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Re: Searching for ET Life! What you all FORGOT
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2015, 02:46:00 PM »
So you catch a Blip on a Radio Telescope....


By the time you spot it in your data... your planet has already moved several million miles away from where you first picked it up....

AND the target planet where the signal originated from has also moved by several million miles

PER HOUR!

By the time you focus on the spot in the heavens where the blip came from... the source is NO LONGER THERE

While it can be argued that like a lighthouse beacon that the signal spreads out over distance..



...pinpointing the source becomes impossible the longer the gap between the original acquisition and any attempt at reacquiring the signal

You don't have a stationary REFERENCE POINT to establish where YOU are in space when you caught the signal  and where you are in relation to that point every hour that passes (even every second

You also don't know what DIRECTION your source is moving in so to even try to track it becomes impossible

The following video is an attempt to show what I am talking about.  This video is only using the ONE addition motion of the solar system orbiting the galaxy as reference but it gives you a good idea of what our travel would look like to a stationary observer outside the solar system\

Our actual motion using all the data is much more complicated

[youtube]0jHsq36_NTU[/youtube]


Offline zorgon

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Re: Searching for ET Life! What you all FORGOT
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2015, 02:51:32 PM »
The Pioneer Spacecraft

Pioneer 10 and Pioneer 11 carry a golden plaque, depicting a man and a woman and information about the origin and the creators of the probes, should any extraterrestrials find them someday.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c6/Pioneer10-plaque.jpg/800px-Pioneer10-plaque.jpg

Pioneer 10 was launched March 03 1972  and Pioneer 11 was launched April 6, 1973

They just recently left the outer limits of the solar system...  It will be a very long time before those plaques will be seen by any Alien system


Offline Kraig

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Re: Searching for ET Life! What you all FORGOT
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2015, 06:23:26 AM »
Howdy Zorgon!
 Lots of Amazing information & Food for Thought Thanks For sharing. :)
Kraig 777

Offline Ellirium113

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Re: Searching for ET Life! What you all FORGOT
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2015, 03:18:43 PM »
Even if an alien race did contact us, would we even know it? How many other species can we communicate with here on earth? Still can't communicate fluently with any other species but humans.

Another weird thing is despite all the attempts, supposedly we have been visited by several different species of aliens that may have left notes, drawings etc. all over the planet. Some of which may never be deciphered. Why look for yet another signal no one would be able to make sense of? Also there may be life all over the universe that has no means of interstellar communications. Russians claim they know how to contact UFOs but we spend tons of money looking elsewhere for what is already here.

http://www.ufointernationalproject.com/latest-news/russia-ufos-are-real-and-we-know-how-to-summon-them/

Offline zorgon

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Re: Searching for ET Life! What you all FORGOT
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2015, 03:24:24 PM »
Even if an alien race did contact us, would we even know it?

"You WILL listen to me!!!" ~ J-Rod




Offline Ellirium113

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Re: Searching for ET Life! What you all FORGOT
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2015, 06:30:15 PM »
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLyKZGEAc3s[/youtube]


 


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