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Author Topic: Alert: R&D Documents - "Treatment & Disposal Of Radioactive Waste At Fukushima"  (Read 6890 times)

Offline this_is_who_we_are

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Fact is - three cores are missing, radioactive waste in untold amounts has been spewing into the Pacific for 4 years and everyone is basically saying it's really nothing to worry about. Is that the side of the argument you're on? Nothing to worry about. If you're ok with that, then so am I.

Meanwhile, back at the adult table...

Struckthrough  - Sorry ArMaP. Old habits die hard.

Moving forward now, as Thor suggests - Do you agree with the above or not?
"The uninitiated perceive time with no appreciation of the beginning. And no understanding of the end. To them time is an infinite commodity. We know better and we will not waste a second of it. This is who we are."

Offline this_is_who_we_are

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Just one more thing:

All I wanted to do was pass on what I thought was useful information.

I'm not a nuclear expert by any means - I have no proof of anything to offer; only the documents that I provided and a number of  informed opinions.

I'll have to leave the proofing to experts like Thor who have been on top of this since day one.

But then again, with 4 years of denial, obfuscation, cover-ups, minimization and the like from "The Authorities", how can someone expect a mere cog like myself to be able to PROVE anything with respect to the Fukushima debacle.

"The uninitiated perceive time with no appreciation of the beginning. And no understanding of the end. To them time is an infinite commodity. We know better and we will not waste a second of it. This is who we are."

Offline zorgon

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But then again, with 4 years of denial, obfuscation, cover-ups, minimization and the like from "The Authorities", how can someone expect a mere cog like myself to be able to PROVE anything with respect to the Fukushima debacle.

PROOF is in the Pudding... :P or in this case in the FISHES

When we followed this from the beginning... we saw images of the plants with the huge pipes that connect the buildings all strewn around like pickup sticks... but the told us they had containment

Since Fukushima CHEATED by leaving out the safety called a heat exchanger, the radioactive water went directly from the reactor  to the turbines, through all those pipes that are now scattered all over the place

That one detail alone says HOW could they EVER have had containment?

A Canadian who worked in Plant 1 said that when the EQ there was a load crack and all the bells and whistles went off... All they could do was say "Holy Crap!" and get out.

Tepco managers tried to lock them in (this was later removed from the CTV interview) Told them they needed to be checked for radiation first.  They said screw you, pushed out and got in their cars  JUST BEFORE THE TSUNAMI HIT

So containment was lost in building 1 at the beginning

THAT is how you find proof...  observation :D


So the FISHES...

How much dilution there is or isn't in the ocean is irrelevant... what matters is that those heavy elements ACCUMULATE like mercury and lead.... so the little fished eat the tainted food and get eaten by bigger fishes....   and so on...

So we need to look at the FOOD CHAIN

Kelp... Kelp is taken to prevent thyroid cancer (like potassium iodide pills)

Date...  April 8, 2012  One year after Fukushima

Fukushima radiation found in California kelp

Quote
Kelp off California was contaminated with short-lived radioisotopes a month after Japan's Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear plant accident, a sign that the spilled radiation reached the state's coastline, according to a new scientific study.
Scientists from CSU Long Beach tested giant kelp collected off Orange County, Santa Cruz and other locations after the March 2011 accident and detected radioactive iodine, which was released from the damaged nuclear reactor.
The largest concentration was about 250 times higher than levels found in kelp before the accident.
"Basically, we saw it in all the California kelp blades we sampled," said Steven Manley, a CSU Long Beach biology professor who specializes in kelp.

http://www.sfgate.com/science/article/Fukushima-radiation-found-in-California-kelp-3466414.php

Blue Fin Tuna.... Sushi Fish :P

Date: August 24, 2013

Radioactive Bluefin Tuna Caught Off California Coast

Quote
Every bluefin tuna tested in the waters off California has been shown to be contaminated with radiation that originated in Fukushima. Every single one.

Over a year ago, in May of 2012, the Wall Street Journal reported on a Stanford University study. Daniel Madigan, a marine ecologist who led the study, was quoted as saying, “The tuna packaged it up (the radiation) and brought it across the world’s largest ocean. We were definitely surprised to see it at all and even more surprised to see it in every one we measured.”

Another member of the study group, Marine biologist Nicholas Fisher at Stony Brook University in New York State reported, “We found that absolutely every one of them had comparable concentrations of cesium 134 and cesium 137.”

http://samuel-warde.com/2013/08/radioactive-bluefin-tuna-caught-off-california-coast/

Offline zorgon

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So since the leakage has not stopped nor is likely to for many years to come...  look to the FISHES.  I like Tuna but I think I will make sure my fish come from the Atlantic

But then  the government is wanting to remove point of origin from meats... and they already raised the 'safe' limits  So can we trust we are getting accurate data?

I need a Geiger counter... was going to buy one before Fukushima  for $100.00  That same unit is now over $500.00

Offline ArMaP

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ArMaP:
YOU doubt? Based on what?
Based on the fact that radiation effects depend on the concentration of the radiation, and if you "dilute" a strong radiation into a huge body of water like the Pacific ocean it will reach the areas most distant to the source as a very weak radiation added to what already exists naturally.

Quote
Certainly not your continued research the past four years, based on your non-participation in THE definitive thread(s) on Fukushima on your home base, AboveTopSecret.

Or for that matter, here on Pegasus.    :P
The fact that I do not participate doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about, it only means that I don't like to participate in those discussions.

And no, AboveTopSecret is not my "home base", my home base is my home, not some Internet forum.

Quote
1) Three cores are missing
The atomic fuel from the reactor cores? From what I have seen, it's possible, but I don't know if there was any real confirmation of that.

Quote
2) Radioactive waste in untold amounts has been spewing into the Pacific for 4 years
No doubts about.

Quote
3) everyone is basically saying it's really nothing to worry about
That's subjective, as it depends on what you mean by "everyone".

Quote
Gentlepersons, let's attempt to keep this somewhat civil, or not, your choice.
As always. :)

Quote
Our Fukushima threads are based on facts and facts cannot be denied.
Facts cannot be denied, but they should be supported by real data, not just presented as if they are confirmed facts.

Quote
OK, ArMaP, on each of the above itemized statements, do you agree or not agree with each one, if you please?
Done. :)

space otter

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I'll have to leave the proofing to experts like Thor who have been on top of this since day one.

first off as much as I like thor  as a fellow human doing what HE feels is right

Thor is NOT an expert..
Thor is a purveyor of rumors and unproven opinions of others in splashing flashing lights

he is akin to a carnival barker shouting out the terrors you will find in his midway
scarier and scarier
the price you pay is your ability to reason for yourself and demand more than a show of words

step right up to see the terrors awaiting you..but only if you suspend your critic thinking and buy into the fear that is approaching or already here..
OH MY
« Last Edit: July 19, 2015, 09:12:29 AM by space otter »

Offline ArMaP

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All I wanted to do was pass on what I thought was useful information.
No problems with that, I only wanted to know how useful that information was, but I probably worded it wrong. :)

Offline ArMaP

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How much dilution there is or isn't in the ocean is irrelevant... what matters is that those heavy elements ACCUMULATE like mercury and lead.... so the little fished eat the tainted food and get eaten by bigger fishes....   and so on...
It's not irrelevant, as the fishes from the areas with higher concentration will get more than those from areas with low concentration.

But yes, the big fishes will show the result.

Quote
Fukushima radiation found in California kelp

http://www.sfgate.com/science/article/Fukushima-radiation-found-in-California-kelp-3466414.php
Yes, but it was short-lived radiation, that's why one month later there weren't any signs of radioactive iodine on the kelp.

The real danger is in the isotopes that emit alpha radiation, as the opening post says, and, as far as I have seen, that kind of isotopes hasn't been found in fishes, plants or water far from Fukushima.

Quote
Radioactive Bluefin Tuna Caught Off California Coast

http://samuel-warde.com/2013/08/radioactive-bluefin-tuna-caught-off-california-coast/
That's the kind of title the media uses to grab people's attentions, regardless of accuracy, the tuna was 3% more radioactive than normal.

Offline thorfourwinds

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Thor is a purveyor of rumors and unproven opinions of others in...

Greetings:

So much for keeping it civil.

You, space otter are a liar and highly misinformed.

Obviously, you have not been involved in the Fukushima disaster from day one as we have and are not up-to-date on my Fuku threads, which are full of vetted information.

Even the quacks, trolls, and otherwise uninformed morons on Tango do not attack me and say the inane things you do, because they know better.

Read a few hundred of my pages on FUKU and come back here with something other than your own, unsubstantiated opinions, if you please.

You are absolutely right, I am no expert, but I do know enough about Fukushima to hold my own on various talk radio shows to be invited back.   :P

Quote
And fully expected to encounter less-informed 'Fukushima Denier's, and be attacked by same.




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Offline ArMaP

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Read a few hundred of my pages on FUKU and come back here with something other than your own, unsubstantiated opinions, if you please.
That punishment is too cruel, I think the Geneva convention forbids it.  :P

space otter

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first off as much as I like thor  as a fellow human doing what HE feels is right

Thor is NOT an expert..
Thor is a purveyor of rumors and unproven opinions of others in splashing flashing lights

he is akin to a carnival barker shouting out the terrors you will find in his midway
scarier and scarier
the price you pay is your ability to reason for yourself and demand more than a show of words

step right up to see the terrors awaiting you..but only if you suspend your critic thinking and buy into the fear that is approaching or already here..
OH MY




that is not a lie  - that is an opinion   and  very civil...

Obviously, you have not been involved in the Fukushima disaster from day one as we have and are not up-to-date on my Fuku threads, which are full of vetted information.


ok you live in a land lock state..so besides reading stuff and regurgitating it with flashing lights and overly long posts (Oh excuse me that is what you meant by vetting)  how have you been involved exactly..?



is involved visiting the country where this has happened for FIRST HAND KNOWLEDGE?

or talking to anyone from that country who WERE involved for even second hand knowldege?

and no I personally have not been involved besides reading what is written - things that you continually take out of context opps ! again you were vetting ..
 please explain how you have been involved besides that




Even the quacks, trolls, and otherwise uninformed morons on Tango do not attack me and say the inane things you do, because they know better.

tango smango  who gives a rats ass what those dudes have to say.. if you did you would stay there

and again that was not an attack it was an opinion I even made the print larger for you to doublecheck

your overly long endless pontificatic posts with the flashing lights are an attack on the senses and the brain of anyone able to read it in the original


Read a few hundred of my pages on FUKU and come back here with something other than your own, unsubstantiated opinions, if you please.

well I quit readling those hundred/thousands of your pages ages ago
and
I just did come back with an opinion..
if you missed it it’s up above in green

You are absolutely right, I am no expert, but I do know enough about Fukushima to hold my own on various talk radio shows to be invited back.   :P

sorry but being invited to talk radio is no pat on the back in my opinion..it’s just talk



I am deeply sorry if my OPINION has made you feel attacked...find a way to get over it
and I will not take up any more space here or engage in a flame war.. I have too much respect for Z


I do apologize to anyone still reading these threads for injecting my opinion here..
I wil fight to refrain in the future ;)





Euphoria

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That punishment is too cruel, I think the Geneva convention forbids it.  :P

Lol! I'm a newbie here, but my father was prominent during the golden age of ATS before it turned to.. well ya know. A condensed version for those not familiar as you, Thor, would be pretty neat. Is that any possibility? Please forgive me if there already is one. Also, I do understand the importance of being thorough so don't think i'm givin you poop. Honestly, I've been eating quite a bit of salmon lately so this thread ummmm reeled me in. ;)

Offline thorfourwinds

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Quote
Thor is a purveyor of rumors and unproven opinions of others in splashing flashing lights
he is akin to a carnival barker shouting out the terrors you will find in his midway

I consider that an attack.

And I'm over it.

Thank you for your opinion.

BTW, 'those dudes' - which includes me - on the Tango mega-thread really do have their ducks in a row, and I never left there, should it be of any concern to you.

And, if you actually read and comprehend what is contained in those threads that you continue to denigrate after admitting that you 'only read a few', you would find the answers to the questions you posed.


Quote
your overly long endless pontificatic posts with the flashing lights are an attack on the senses and the brain of anyone able to read it in the original


Again, your opinion.

Quote
'overly long endless'
  I'm at a loss for words to respond to this    ::)

Quote
'pontificatic posts'
As you well know - OR NOT - depending on your due diligence, I'm not Roman Catholic.   :P

Not one other person has ever complained about my posts (OK, you and Sgt.RocknRoll utilize virtually the same verbiage   :P)… and many others that actually read and comprehend what information is shared there even post compliments.
   ;D

As I said before, if you don't appreciate nor understand what we are trying to do with my Fukushima threads, it's OK.    ;)

BTW, what did you think about this story? More 'fear-mongering', or calling the government mouthpieces out with their absurd comment that rainwater does not equate to drinking water in Pennsylvania?

Or, do you have a different opinion of what is reported that makes you not care about the well-being of your family, pets, friends, perhaps your fellow world citizens?



28 March 2011
Radioactive Iodine-131 in Pennsylvania rainwater sample is 3300% above federal drinking water standard

Governor Corbett Says Public Water Supply Testing Finds No Risk to Public From Radioactivity Found in Rainwater

Quote
Pennsylvania Office of the Governor, March 28, 2011:
The [Iodine-131] numbers reported in the rainwater samples in Pennsylvania range from 40-100 picocuries per liter (pCi/L). Although these are levels above the background levels historically reported in these areas, they are still about 25 times below the level that would be of concern. The federal drinking water standard for Iodine-131 is three pCi/L. …

On Friday, rainwater samples were taken in Harrisburg, where levels were 41 pCi/L and at nuclear power plants at TMI and Limerick, where levels were 90 to 100 pCi/L.

Corbett emphasized that the drinking water is safe and there is no cause for health concerns.

“Rainwater is not typically directly consumed,” Corbett said.

“However, people might get alarmed by making what would be an inappropriate connection from rainwater to drinking water. By testing the drinking water, we can assure people that the water is safe.”

As those who are familiar with the challenges leaking from Fukushima at the rate of (at the very least) TEPCO-admitted 400 tons per day, it is a known factor that I-131 decays with a half-life of 8.02 days with beta minus and gamma emission.

Quote
Due to its mode of beta decay, iodine-131 is notable for causing mutation and death in cells that it penetrates, and other cells up to several millimeters away.


Courtesy of the Jet Stream, that fallout reaches the U.S. in 48-72 hours.

One might think that to have the Pennsylvania Governor Corbett admit to Fukushima fallout contamination of public drinking water in any amount should raise an eyebrow and engender further investigation from any concerned 'local.'


And this from Forbes:


28 March 2011
UPDATE: Radioactive Iodine-131 in Pennsylvania rainwater sample 3300% above federal drinking water standard
EPA: Expect More Radiation in Rainwater
Forbes Blog, March 28 2011

[Emphasis Added]
Quote
… The levels [of iodine-131 in rainwater in Pennsylvania and Massachusetts] exceed the maximum contaminant level (MCL) permitted in drinking water, but EPA continues to assure the public there is no need for alarm:

“It is important to note that the corresponding MCL for iodine-131 was calculated based on long-term chronic exposures over the course of a lifetime – 70 years. The levels seen in rainwater are expected to be relatively short in duration,” the [EPA] states in a FAQ that accompanied yesterday’s brief news release. …

EPA said it is receiving “verbal reports” of higher levels of radiation in rainwater… “We continue to expect similar reports from state agencies and others across the nation given the nature and duration of the Japanese nuclear incident.”


And you probably remember this when you were performing your due diligence before making absurd statements and attacking me personally… did you see this information anywhere else?

Cesium-137 Threat Grows While MSM Remains Silent

Quote
Cesium-137 has been detected in drinking water and milk here in the United States.

Cesium and Tellurium were found in Boise, Las Vegas, Nome and Dutch Harbor, Honolulu, Kauai and Oahu, Anaheim, Riverside, San Francisco, and San Bernardino,  Jacksonville and Orlando, Salt Lake City,  Guam, and Saipan while Uranium-234, with a half-life of 245,500 years has been found in Hawaii, California, and Washington.

17 APRIL 2011
Have the real Cesium-137 fallout maps been hidden from public?

Compare these two images.

First the publicly released Cs-137 total column fallout map for 24th March. This analysis was made on 26th March.



Now the map on the server here for the same time on the same date. The key gradient is the same. This analysis was made the day before, on the 25th March.


That's right, it shows the Northern Hemisphere getting absolutely plastered with radioactive Cesium-137. If this is incorrect, why is it kept on file and not the public one?

If it is the real version, why is it not publicly released?

Source: five minutes in
here.

Thank you for your time and consideration.



With great respect,
tfw
Peace Love Light
Liberty & Equality or Revolution

Hec'el oinipikte  (that we shall live)

« Last Edit: July 19, 2015, 07:39:33 PM by thorfourwinds »
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Offline this_is_who_we_are

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Looks like I've unintentionally stated a war. Or at least a skirmish.

In addition, I find it interesting that someone has asked for facts, but then doesn't seem to be genuinely interested in reviewing them when they are readily available as evidenced by this overlooked exchange:

Facts, please. :)
Greetings:
you have not been involved in the Fukushima disaster from day one as we have and are not up-to-date on my Fuku threads, which are full of vetted information.
That punishment is too cruel, I think the Geneva convention forbids it.  :P

Meanwhile, I thank those who have come to the aid of this thread where I couldn't.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2015, 08:54:15 PM by this_is_who_we_are »
"The uninitiated perceive time with no appreciation of the beginning. And no understanding of the end. To them time is an infinite commodity. We know better and we will not waste a second of it. This is who we are."

space otter

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Quote
Looks like I've unintentionally stated a war. Or at least a skirmish.
you need to read some history here between Thor and I  to correct your assumption....we mostly agree to disagree there is no skirmish or war
 





ok the only reason I have returned is because I would never attack anyone and if  you think I have attacked you I do hope to change that thought
our styles and opinions do not mesh and when I am bored enough to comment you get all huffy...




Thor is a purveyor of rumors and unproven opinions of others in splashing flashing lights
he is akin to a carnival barker shouting out the terrors you will find in his midway

I consider that an attack.
actually it is an observation of your posting style not an attack
I feel too deeply about humans in general to attack any is not my intent

And I'm over it...
good

Thank you for your opinion. you are welcome
and I don’t go to that other place..I only have time for this one on most days


I will only address your pursuit of the pa  thing.. just to make a point


number one you rarely add the sources of your info..
 I know few would be bothered to check but it’s nice when you have a question as to the slant of the quote to go read the whole thing
not that this little blurb has much to go with it

and you may have gotten confused by my use of pontificate because I mis speeled it..sorry.. I have no interest in bringing anyones religion into any discussion
sooooooooooo   just to be clear


pon·tif·i·cate
verb

express one's opinions in a way considered annoyingly pompous and dogmatic.
"he was pontificating about art and history"
synonyms: hold forth, expound, declaim, preach, lay down the law, sound off, dogmatize, sermonize, moralize, lecture;




now to the part  you copied about the pa gov..thank you for including that date.. but you do realize that it is 4 years ago,

why did he say that? what is the context that statement is taken from..no link to the source so I guess I need to hunt it down
was there any reports after that of anyone having problems?..
how diluted does the rain water become when mixing with ground water or ponds and such

all that is here is a slant making it look like there is a problem..where is the substantial reports  that backs that up?


I do agree with him rain is not the same as drinking water..at least not in this state..the drinking water here is put thur water facilities that clean and test it before it is piped to the homeowners...test results are posted or you can go to the office and check them out.. you can also  get an independent lab to test your drinking water and compare the results

 I found  links (all from what I would call conspiracy theory places) that only had a small piece of info with no relation to anything else
if these are the types of places you subscribe to  I now better understand the way you also present  your opinion
none said where the gov’s quote was from or the rest of the story.. if there was one


here’s one
http://enenews.com/radioactive-iodine-131-in-pennsylvania-rainwater-sample-3300-above-federal-drinking-water-standard
ENENews.com – Energy News 
 

Governor Corbett Says Public Water Supply Testing Finds No Risk to Public From Radioactivity Found in Rainwater, Pennsylvania Office of the Governor, March 28, 2011:

[Emphasis Added]

… The [Iodine-131] numbers reported in the rainwater samples in Pennsylvania range from 40-100 picocuries per liter (pCi/L). Although these are levels above the background levels historically reported in these areas, they are still about 25 times below the level that would be of concern. The federal drinking water standard for Iodine-131 is three pCi/L. …

On Friday, rainwater samples were taken in Harrisburg, where levels were 41 pCi/L and at nuclear power plants at TMI and Limerick, where levels were 90 to 100 pCi/L.

Corbett emphasized that the drinking water is safe and there is no cause for health concerns. …

“Rainwater is not typically directly consumed,” Corbett said. “However, people might get alarmed by making what would be an inappropriate connection from rainwater to drinking water. By testing the drinking water, we can assure people that the water is safe.” …
Read the release here.

See also: EPA: Radioactive Iodine-131 levels in PA & MA rainwater “exceed maximum contaminant level permitted in drinking water”




your entire bunch of stuff makes me think of the commercial that cracks me up every time I hear it
talking about    cage free eggs...
no mention of the chickens those eggs come from  but damn the eggs were never in cages..
bwhahahahahahahah 

 
 



 


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