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Author Topic: quantum theory weirdness confirmed  (Read 1897 times)

space otter

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quantum theory weirdness confirmed
« on: June 20, 2015, 06:56:40 PM »
http://phys.org/news/2015-05-quantum-theory-weirdness.html


Experiment confirms quantum theory weirdness

May 27, 2015


Associate Professor Andrew Truscott (L) with PhD student Roman Khakimov.

The bizarre nature of reality as laid out by quantum theory has survived another test, with scientists performing a famous experiment and proving that reality does not exist until it is measured.
Physicists at The Australian National University (ANU) have conducted John Wheeler's delayed-choice thought experiment, which involves a moving object that is given the choice to act like a particle or a wave. Wheeler's experiment then asks - at which point does the object decide?

Common sense says the object is either wave-like or particle-like, independent of how we measure it. But quantum physics predicts that whether you observe wave like behavior (interference) or particle behavior (no interference) depends only on how it is actually measured at the end of its journey. This is exactly what the ANU team found.

"It proves that measurement is everything. At the quantum level, reality does not exist if you are not looking at it," said Associate Professor Andrew Truscott from the ANU Research School of Physics and Engineering.

Despite the apparent weirdness, the results confirm the validity of quantum theory, which governs the world of the very small, and has enabled the development of many technologies such as LEDs, lasers and computer chips.

The ANU team not only succeeded in building the experiment, which seemed nearly impossible when it was proposed in 1978, but reversed Wheeler's original concept of light beams being bounced by mirrors, and instead used atoms scattered by laser light.

"Quantum physics' predictions about interference seem odd enough when applied to light, which seems more like a wave, but to have done the experiment with atoms, which are complicated things that have mass and interact with electric fields and so on, adds to the weirdness," said Roman Khakimov, PhD student at the Research School of Physics and Engineering.

Professor Truscott's team first trapped a collection of helium atoms in a suspended state known as a Bose-Einstein condensate, and then ejected them until there was only a single atom left.

The single atom was then dropped through a pair of counter-propagating laser beams, which formed a grating pattern that acted as crossroads in the same way a solid grating would scatter light.

A second light grating to recombine the paths was randomly added, which led to constructive or destructive interference as if the atom had travelled both paths. When the second light grating was not added, no interference was observed as if the atom chose only one path.

However, the random number determining whether the grating was added was only generated after the atom had passed through the crossroads.

If one chooses to believe that the atom really did take a particular path or paths then one has to accept that a future measurement is affecting the atom's past, said Truscott.

"The atoms did not travel from A to B. It was only when they were measured at the end of the journey that their wave-like or particle-like behavior was brought into existence," he said.




More information: "Wheeler's delayed-choice gedanken experiment with a single atom" Nature Physics (2015) DOI: 10.1038/nphys3343


Journal reference:  Nature Physics search and more info website

http://phys.org/journals/nature-physics/



Provided by  Australian National University
http://phys.org/partners/australian-national-university/


 

Offline zorgon

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Re: quantum theory weirdness confirmed
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2015, 03:21:32 AM »
Quantum Theory is what the guys in Medieval Tymes called Magic :P

Mind over Matter   

Jesus told us...  "You can move mountains if you believe"

Yoda told us...  "Ships you can lift, believe you must"

Einstein told us "Reality is merely an illusion..."

Finally the scientists are figuring out that the Mystics have been right all along :D



Offline COSMO

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Re: quantum theory weirdness confirmed
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2015, 03:55:33 AM »
And you may ask yourself
Well...How did I get here?

Offline zorgon

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Re: quantum theory weirdness confirmed
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2015, 04:28:35 AM »
Happens a lot :P

space otter

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Re: quantum theory weirdness confirmed
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2015, 04:32:33 AM »


sorry cosmo 

guess you gotta sticke em together big guy

Offline COSMO

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Re: quantum theory weirdness confirmed
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2015, 11:35:59 AM »
It is important that they did this with atoms!   The quantum world is weird, but, and this is key, this weirdness extends to the larger world!  This result confirms this.  It is all due to the process of observation.  Look around.  EVERYTHING you can see is has been OBSERVED!  This entire universe we see is post collapse.  The quantum wave collapse happened just a faster-than-light-instant ago.  We cannot experience it because we LIVE in the post collapse world, an instant in the past.  Every thought and belief you have is POST COLLAPSE, crystallized, in the past.  Yoda was wrong.  Belief has NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.  Belief, and all belief systems are post collapse, all composed of electrochemical processes in you brain, between your ears and therefore of the same thing.  Every thought, desire, belief, religious system or dogma will keep you in the post collapse, mental machinery, post observation world....Maya.

The act of true meditation is simply shutting down the mental machinery involved in the OBSERVATION.  The direct experience of the pre-collapse, timeless quantum realm is Samadhi.  This quantum sea of creation is Brahman, the Eternal Illumination.   


MAYA


Cosmo
And you may ask yourself
Well...How did I get here?

Offline zorgon

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Re: quantum theory weirdness confirmed
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2015, 12:38:52 PM »
So  how do we UNOBSERVE something and make it go away? 

 ::)

Offline COSMO

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Re: quantum theory weirdness confirmed
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2015, 02:12:05 AM »
So  how do we UNOBSERVE something and make it go away? 

 ::)

Our mental machinery is part of the "observation" process.  When it is halted, the Eternal Illumination is revealed.  We strongly identify with that mental machinery and it is a survival mechanism, so there can be resistance to the ego being transcended.  The way is the way described in the Upanishads. 

It's basically this:
The first part is relaxing the body and then halting the thought process.  It is easier said than done.  The internal dialogue can be difficult to halt and when the first level of consciousness is transcended, the sleep state is right below that and the tendency is to fall asleep.  With perseverance one can achieve this and go into the deeper levels of consciousness.  The deepest state is one of being surrounded by an infinite black void, just pure consciousness, no sense of body and no thoughts, just pure being in an infinite black void.  At the point you have "reined in the horses of the five senses".  The Upanishads describe what happens next:

Scroll up on this page a little and begin with Liberating Meditation:

https://books.google.com/books?id=FNzTC6Nmy6gC&pg=PA323&lpg=PA323&dq=upanishads+you+may+see+lightning&source=bl&ots=dEC9U5W_Kf&sig=EV6hJwPuYF3x6dbtyGd5EfQr3vE&hl=en&sa=X&ei=IMeHVeSnH4amNv_Pg4AL&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=upanishads%20you%20may%20see%20lightning&f=true

And then signs of progress...

The snow, or lightning is the first glimpses of the energetic, timeless quantum ocean. You are at the point where the observation mechanism is being halted.  The experience escalates into one of pure white light, incredible energy, bliss and is really beyond my ability to adequately describe.  It is non-verbal and does not resemble anything in this physical universe. 

Chinmoy knew...

http://www.srichinmoy.org/spirituality/concentration_meditation_contemplation/samadhi

There is a distinct point where you become aware that in order to proceed into that light, you must leave your "self" behind.  Everything you know yourself to be becomes crystal clear and it is also clear that in order to go into that Eternal Illumination you must leave everything you know behind.  It can be a frightening thing to do.   
I think this is the original meaning of death, immersion in the living waters and rebirth.  You must psychologically die in order to go into the illumination.  Quite startling and not an easy thing to do. 

Some of the techniques I found helpful come from Pranayama Yoga.  This gets you in touch with your body and strengthens the mind/body connection and aids in relaxing of the body and mind. 

This is something that can take years of practice and one may still not achieve Samadhi.  Getting into the deeper levels can be difficult and it is written that a guru will be required.  I think that is because it is so hard to get through the sleep level without going to sleep.  It takes perseverance.  There are also indications that this light energy, or illumination has some dangers associated with it.  In KUNDALINI, written by Gopi Krishna, he describes his difficulties when this light energy was awakened incorrectly and there was an imbalance that created serious health consequences for him.  He was eventually able to balance out the negative and positive energies and his description of his struggle is a very good read and most informative about this phenomenon.  He also came to the conclusion, that even in his own Indian culture, this knowledge has been mostly lost in this modern age.   

This is also the same divine light described in the Kabbalah that can be dangerous and is too much for man to observe directly, so it is filtered through the SEFIROTHS and translated into the material world we observe.  This energetic state is also what the Gnostics called the Pleroma, the energetic state of things before they become the physical world.  Just like the energetic quantum ocean that collapses upon observation into the universe we observe!!!  It is also Maya, the illusion, the observer created, post collapse material world that springs forth from Brahman, the source of all, that can be experienced through meditation.



Yes, modern physics is discovering what the ancients told us.  I don't know that we can un-observe something.  Once observed, it is collapsed.  But...we can halt the "observation" process and experience the quantum sea before collapse.

Cosmo   

« Last Edit: June 22, 2015, 02:45:32 AM by COSMO »
And you may ask yourself
Well...How did I get here?

Offline Pimander

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Re: quantum theory weirdness confirmed
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2015, 04:02:20 PM »
This is also the same divine light described in the Kabbalah that can be dangerous and is too much for man to observe directly, so it is filtered through the SEFIROTHS and translated into the material world we observe.
It's Sephirah.  One Sephiroth and many Sephirah. :)

Oh yes, I meant to ask why on Earth you describe it as "collapsed"?

Offline COSMO

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Re: quantum theory weirdness confirmed
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2015, 08:27:00 PM »
It's Sephirah.  One Sephiroth and many Sephirah. :)

Oh yes, I meant to ask why on Earth you describe it as "collapsed"?

Why on Earth?  Have you heard of the double slit experiment?   The article that opened this thread talked about it and I have posted about it here. 

Dr. Quantum will explain it...

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum1/index.php?topic=6176.msg86538#msg86538

The video is good and if you read that thread and still don't understand the wave/particle duality and how observation collapses the quantum wave, let me know. 

Cosmo
And you may ask yourself
Well...How did I get here?

Offline Pimander

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Re: quantum theory weirdness confirmed
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2015, 05:28:55 AM »
The long and short of it for me is this.  No empirical experiment can prove the existence of the past or the future.  They have to be something assumed to exist if you want to treat the universe as a machine.  Mechanistic determinism may be appropriate for engineering purposes but it is an error.

The only certain fact is that we experience what we do - which agrees with quantum mechanics.  The only place we have that experience in terms of time is in the moment.  The here and now.

If that moment contains a way to access everything then the past simply exists within the moment (memory).

The past is history
The future is a mystery
This moment is a gift
That is why it is called the present!


This time is our time, our time is now!
« Last Edit: June 23, 2015, 08:42:42 AM by Pimander »

Offline Sinny

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Re: quantum theory weirdness confirmed
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2015, 08:18:49 AM »
That's what scars are useful for.
Reminding me I didn't imagine the past. Or did I?
"The very word "secrecy" is repugnant in a free and open society"- JFK

Offline COSMO

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Re: quantum theory weirdness confirmed
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2015, 11:27:24 AM »
The long and short of it for me is this.  No empirical experiment can prove the existence of the past or the future.  They have to be something assumed to exist if you want to treat the universe as a machine.  Mechanistic determinism may be appropriate for engineering purposes but it is an error.

The only certain fact is that we experience what we do - which agrees with quantum mechanics.  The only place we have that experience in terms of time is in the moment.  The here and now.

If that moment contains a way to access everything then the past simply exists within the moment (memory).

The past is history
The future is a mystery
This moment is a gift
That is why it is called the present!


This time is our time, our time is now!

I think the quantum sea is also the ETHER, the ZPF, Higgs Field...
Even Professor Higgs said he doesn't view the Higgs boson as a particle, but instead as a distortion in a common medium, the Higgs Field.  I still like to use the term ETHER in honor of Tesla.  He knew that it was the source of everything, eddies and whirls.  The ETHER in motion. 

That't the first principle of the Universe.  Everything, all matter and energy, manifesting out of that quantum sea as distortions.  This quantum sea is also the Akashic Record, all of space and time are connected in this medium.  We just can't observe this energetic state of the universe with the mental machinery tools that are totally of the post quantum wave collapse.  The quantum wave collapse is real.  It is faster than light.

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum1/index.php?topic=6176.msg109377#msg109377

We cannot detect it because it happened just an instant ago.  We are always an instant late to the act of physical creation, but our foundation is the quantum sea, Brahman.  We are just caught an instant in the past by out thoughts, beliefs, wants and desires, all of the activities of our electro-chemical mental machinery.  That's why the Upanishads tell us to "rein in the horses of the five senses".  That is the path to experiencing the quantum sea directly, gnosis. 

Cosmo

 

And you may ask yourself
Well...How did I get here?

Offline Pimander

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Re: quantum theory weirdness confirmed
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2015, 06:44:52 AM »
I think the quantum sea is also the ETHER, the ZPF, Higgs Field...
Even Professor Higgs said he doesn't view the Higgs boson as a particle, but instead as a distortion in a common medium, the Higgs Field. 
Ervin Laszlo also refers to it as the i-field (information field) in some of his books.  I agree with you completely and when I mentioned memory I was hoping you would use the word Akashic in your next post. :)

The ether is turning out to be exactly as I was taught by a non-science esoteric teacher.  It is an infinite ocean which contains all of existence and all that has been.  It is the medium of information and responsible for so called "paranormal" (a misnomer IMO) phenomena due to its capacity to allow distant objects to resonate with one another.

Quote
I still like to use the term ETHER in honor of Tesla.  He knew that it was the source of everything, eddies and whirls.  The ETHER in motion.
With you. 

Quote
That't the first principle of the Universe.  Everything, all matter and energy, manifesting out of that quantum sea as distortions.  This quantum sea is also the Akashic Record, all of space and time are connected in this medium.  We just can't observe this energetic state of the universe with the mental machinery tools that are totally of the post quantum wave collapse.  The quantum wave collapse is real.  It is faster than light.
I don't like the term wave collapse.  In my opinion faster than light phenomena are when resonance takes place.


Quote
We cannot detect it because it happened just an instant ago.  We are always an instant late to the act of physical creation, but our foundation is the quantum sea, Brahman.  We are just caught an instant in the past by out thoughts, beliefs, wants and desires, all of the activities of our electro-chemical mental machinery.  That's why the Upanishads tell us to "rein in the horses of the five senses".  That is the path to experiencing the quantum sea directly, gnosis. 
Gnosis is precisely the resonance I am talking about.  Samadhi is resonance with the absolute.

I suspect we are talking about the same thing here after all. ;)

Offline COSMO

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Re: quantum theory weirdness confirmed
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2015, 06:01:32 AM »

I don't like the term wave collapse.  In my opinion faster than light phenomena are when resonance takes place.


I use terminology from  modern, cutting edge physics in some cases to help to describe this.  Wave collapse is the term used in this article and it was determined that the wave collapse is real and it is "non-local" or faster than light.  As the double slit experiment shows us the particle/wave duality is also real and verified in the lab for years.

This debate has remained purely theoretical for decades, until three teams of quantum theorists—including co-authors Dr Cyril Branciard and Dr Eric Cavalcanti—recently proposed experimental tests to answer this question.
"The new approach tests whether the competing interpretations of the wavefunction can explain why we cannot tell quantum states apart with certainty, which is a central feature of quantum mechanics," says lead author Mr Martin Ringbauer.
"Our results suggest that, if there is objective reality, the wavefunction corresponds to this reality."
In other words, Schrödinger's cat really is in a state of being both alive and dead.
As measurements improve further, physicists will be left with two possible interpretations of the wavefunction: either the wavefunction is completely real, or nothing is.


Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2015-02-wavefunction-schroedinger-cat.html#jCp

The waveform exists before the faster-than-light instant it takes to collapse.  We exist in this material world, just an instant downstream of the act of creation.  Samadhi is a direct experience of that energetic state BEFORE the quantum probability wave resolves into a particle upon observation.  TRUE meditation is simply shutting down the mental machinery that is involved in the "observation", revealing the eternal illumination.  It is a very powerful, profound experience with distinct signposts along the way. 

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum1/index.php?topic=6176.msg109377#msg109377

Cosmo

 
And you may ask yourself
Well...How did I get here?

 


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