collapse

Author Topic: Man Made Earthquakes Taken as Factual  (Read 2679 times)

Offline Wrabbit2000

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 223
  • Gold 53
  • Just a fun loving kind of Rabbit.
Man Made Earthquakes Taken as Factual
« on: October 26, 2014, 08:02:14 PM »
Now here is something to get one's attention, as I hadn't seen anything quite this direct and foward about stating this as a simple fact and given reality from the U.S. Government.

The basic facts here come from the USGS. I'm sorting through a lot of the data they have right now for another project and came across this. After checking the past threads here, I saw some that touched on this, but from different directions and while looking at other things. It's an eye opener for what we seem to be willing to just accept now.

Quote
The number of earthquakes has increased dramatically over the past few years within the central and eastern United States. Nearly 450 earthquakes magnitude 3.0 and larger occurred in the four years from 2010-2013, over 100 per year on average, compared with an average rate of 20 earthquakes per year observed from 1970-2000.

dramatically? Yeah.. That has been my sense too, but it's also been an issue of intense online debate that I've seen. This source tends to set what the science feels on it, anyway.

Quote
USGS scientists have found that at some locations the increase in seismicity coincides with the injection of wastewater in deep disposal wells. Much of this wastewater is a byproduct of oil and gas production and is routinely disposed of by injection into wells specifically designed for this purpose.

Now this next part is tricky, but important.

Quote
While hydraulic fracturing works by making thousands of extremely small “microearthquakes,” they are, with just a few exceptions, too small to be felt; none have been large enough to cause structural damage. As noted previously, underground disposal of wastewater co-produced with oil and gas, enabled by hydraulic fracturing operations, has been linked to induced earthquakes.

You see.. It's not the fracking that does it. Those quakes (it DOES make them) are too small. It's getting rid of the waste directly produced FROM the fracking that causes the problem and quakes with enough size to damage things and drive residents in some areas batty.

Finally, they mention a specific quake they think may have had a connection to the deep injection wells. Living in this general area myself, I tend to agree too.

Quote
There is a growing interest in understanding the risks associated with injection-induced earthquakes, especially in the areas of the country where, before the modern boom in oil and gas production, earthquakes large enough to be felt were rare.

For example, wastewater disposal appears to be related to the magnitude-5.6 earthquake that struck rural central Oklahoma in 2011 leading to a few injuries and damage to more than a dozen homes. Damage from an earthquake of this magnitude would be much worse if it were to happen in a more densely populated area.
Source: USGS 'Man Made Earthquakes Update'

So what does everyone think? This position being taken by the USGS and others must not go well with the cases being defended by the industry in Federal courts for issues such as the quake swarms in Arkansas.

Perhaps if they know enough to say quakes of any measurable size are an understood part of this process, it's time to step back and take a serious hard look at the process itself?

The sheer violence of action taking place thousands of feet below us and into our bedrock is...questionable at best, in my opinion. Questionable in value. We're going to use what this method produces within years for a given location, but the damage will be there for timelines it's hard to image.

Is there absolutely NO other way to get what we need here, but to risk triggering a serious quake by interactions we don't/can't fully understand yet? A chart on the source site leaves absolutely no question about the rise and SHARP rise at that for some ranges of quakes. It makes less and less sense.

Offline The Matrix Traveller

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3260
  • Gold 253
Re: Man Made Earthquakes Taken as Factual
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2014, 09:27:50 PM »
We have in NZ about 30 to 100 earthquakes a day (quite normal) which has been going on for years.

Most are either too small or too deep to be felt. But you need to realise our senses are 'logarithmic based'
and NOT 'Linear', re. feeling earthquakes.

As far as I am aware, they are NOT man made.

We have Fracking in NZ (in the North Island) but most of the larger Earthquakes have recently been in the South Island.
(Hundreds of miles away from where Fracking is taking place.)

NOTE: I don't support the practice of 'fracking'   :(

Underground Nuclear testing in earlier years, produce week ground tremors.

The French tested in the Pacific at Moruroa Atoll.

http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/politics/nuclear-free-new-zealand/testing-in-the-pacific

Quote
After the Second World War the United States, along with its French and British allies,
frequently tested nuclear weapons in the Pacific region.

In the 1950s New Zealand military personnel observed British and American nuclear tests in Australia,
the Pacific and Nevada, and vessels of the Royal New Zealand Navy served as weather ships
for British tests in the Indian Ocean.

In 1963 the British, American and Soviet governments agreed to ban atmospheric tests.

New Zealand also signed this treaty – but India, China and France were among those countries
which did not.

New Zealand was involved in ongoing protest over French nuclear testing from the mid-1960s,
when France began testing nuclear weapons in French Polynesia. Mururoa (or Moruroa) Atoll
became the focal point for both the tests and opposition to them. Greenpeace vessels saile
into the test site in 1972, and the following year the New Zealand and Australian governments
took France to the International Court of Justice in an attempt to ban the tests.

France ignored the court’s ruling that they cease testing.



Just one photo of such an Explosion at the Atoll.   :o    >:(






Offline zorgon

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19931
  • Gold 879
Re: Man Made Earthquakes Taken as Factual
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2014, 04:14:54 AM »
Long Beach California....

Oil companies move in pumped out the oil...

The city began to sink...

It sank 26 FEET...

The NAVY sued the oil companies...

So they started pumping seawater back in to replace the oil to stop any further sinking



Offline Sgt.Rocknroll

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2090
  • Gold 320
  • ROCK On!
    • Sgt. Rocknroll
Re: Man Made Earthquakes Taken as Factual
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2014, 04:29:11 AM »
How long have earthquakes been in existence? Probably around 4.5 billion years! When mankind no longer exists on planet earth, how many earthquakes will take place?..

Wait the evil oil companies will find a way to conduct automatic remote fracking from their galactic operations in another dimension!

Geez people.
Non nobis, Domine, non nobis, sed nomini Tuo da gloriam

Offline Wrabbit2000

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 223
  • Gold 53
  • Just a fun loving kind of Rabbit.
Re: Man Made Earthquakes Taken as Factual
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2014, 07:33:22 AM »
I'm a little confused. Perhaps because this is a major and ongoing issue I've been following for a few years and so, take for granted that others care about it was well? It was a bit late last night so I didn't get around to including some of the resources which help understand the depth (no pun intended) and level of damage regular folks are experiencing from this.

First, Earthquakes have been around forever, as one points out. However....Earthquakes have increased dramatically in a very very short period of time, in geologic terms.


(Source: Original USGS site from OP)

Now THAT is a hockey stick chart which leaves little to no room for debate. It is similar to what I found by putting the raw quake data for the last century into excel last year, but people seem to take home produced analysis that way as something less than accurate. So, it was something to see the USGS produce results stating the same increase as a simple fact to deal with.


(Seismicity of the coterminous United States and surrounding regions, 2009–2012. Black dots denote earthquakes with a magnitude ? 3.0 are shown; larger dots denote events with a magnitude ? 4.0. Background colors indicate earthquake hazard levels from the U.S. National Seismic Hazard Map (NSHM).)

Again, my apologies for not including more with the OP. That is a bit unlike me on major issues, but it was late and I was half asleep when I stumbled across the USGS data.

Now Fracking itself, as opposed to the waste water injection wells, has it's own very crippling impact on our nation and way of life. The injection wells are what CAUSE quakes...NOT fracking. That has been made pretty clear in courts and science labs alike. However, fracking is not without it's own.....concerns.

Despite drought, fracking uses millions of gallons of water

Would you believe the parched and drought stricken California landscape, where cities are literally losing municipal tap water service for lack of water to deliver right now (Porterville, CA is one example of this), the frack wells are still running strong? Running and draining what is left in a state with little to nothing left to give.

I'll tell ya, California is a great example of this though. It's a good example because it is one of the more seismically active areas in North America. It's not highly active to the upper end of the scale, but it is very active in the low to mid range on a near daily basis. You'd think this would be a place to AVOID injection wells that we've established, by way of the USGS, cause quakes. However, it is anything but. This is startling, but it is what it is.


Fractracker Mapping and Well Data

The yellow icons are injection wells. The red ones are hydraulic fracturing operations. (On a closer zoom, it can be seen the Yellow cover a great many red at that level) The red lines are known faults and the black dotted one is the San Andreas fault line.

Returning to the rest of the nation, and it's been quite a rocky road to start, but it's turning against the industry while they are insisting there IS no problem and this is simply made up nonsense or some such thing.

Fracking Court and Regulatory News

It is certainly an issue that people in my area of the nation are taking with deadly seriousness in seeing something done with. Perhaps it is living a few hours drive from the largest fault in the continental United States for documented quakes. That does have something to do with it....although the simulations show even a full blow out on the New Madrid won't seriously impact the area I live. (It's a trick of the geology between here and the NMZ). This is and will continue to be fought in the courts though, since common sense cannot prevail upon those who would shatter our bedrock and trigger quakes across our nation.

They can't even hide the toxins they are using to do this.

Wyoming supreme court rejects fracking industry argument to withhold chemicals as trade secrets

As noted, I may be sensitive to it because I live right in the jackpot for how they are drilling and injecting around but not IN the New Madrid seismic zone so far, but then, that is assuming we know all there is of importance for interactions 5,000 feet below our feet. The drilling all over Arkansas, and which has spawned some successful federal lawsuits for quake related damage is of chief concern. Tooo close....when quakes are a given outcome.

I am not against oil and gas development, but the BANANA (Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anything) attitude will kill us all as the BANANA morons think "out of sight means out of mind". Well... No... It doesn't. Out of sight means the price we pay will be deferred, but in this case? Quite possibly a worse price than any eye sore of an off shore rig or a Utah coal mine would ever bring.

I hope our kid's generation is forgiving in future years.

Offline Shasta56

  • The Roundtable
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1390
  • Gold 137
Re: Man Made Earthquakes Taken as Factual
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2014, 09:59:09 AM »
Denver had frequent earthquakes in the 1960's.  The Rocky Mountain Arsenal was pumping chemical waste water into the ground in the 1960's.  The earthquakes stopped when the pumping stopped.

Shasta
Daughter of Sekhmet

Offline The Matrix Traveller

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3260
  • Gold 253
Re: Man Made Earthquakes Taken as Factual
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2014, 12:20:23 PM »
The increase in earthquakes is happening in spite of 'Fracking'.

'Fracking' probable doesn't help and could add to the situation ?

NOTE: I am against 'Fracking' !



The main reason for the Increase in Earthquakes is probably due to the Earth, approaching the cusp
in its natural 'Thermal Cycle'.

On the reversal of the 'Thermal Cycle', you might witness the relocation of the seas from above
the earths surface to the underside.



The other End of the cycle may have been Noah's flood ?

Where the seas relocated from the underside of the Earths crust to above the Earths crust.

Ignoring the religious interpretation .... but recorded in some ancient writings, Quote;

OT
Quote
In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month,
all the fountains of the great deep came bursting through,
and the windows of heaven were open;

OT
Quote
The fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped,
and the rain from heaven was restrained;

Possibly the water came down in the form of Rain from the Water which exploded up through the 'Oceanic Ridges'
into the upper atmosphere ?   :o   :(

NT
Quote
Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away,
andthe sea was no more.

NT
Quote
And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth
distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth:
for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.


Offline ArMaP

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9990
  • Gold 751
Re: Man Made Earthquakes Taken as Factual
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2014, 12:51:12 PM »
The main reason for the Increase in Earthquakes is probably due to the Earth, approaching the cusp
in its natural 'Thermal Cycle'.
If that's the case then it should be a global thing, right?

Offline zorgon

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19931
  • Gold 879
Re: Man Made Earthquakes Taken as Factual
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2014, 12:53:32 PM »
A few years back there were some scientists considering placing small nuclear bombs along key point on the San Andreas fault to help ease it along smoothly

(Trying to find articles on that)

Similar scientists suggested drilling a hole in the magma bubble at Yellowstone to 'relieve the pressure"

 8)

Maybe Gaia needs to shake off the vermin infestation  :P

ETA:

Nuking the San Andreas Fault
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=4715

I remember watching a Nova or somesuch science show, and they had a scientist whose theory was that gradually flooding small portions of the small would cause slippage, inducing many small earthquakes, hopefully preventing a large one from building up. His only worry was that it might be like unzipping the part of North America that holds California to the rest of the continent.

If that's true, a nuke might simply set California adrift. At the very least, it would cause massive slippage along the fault.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2014, 12:55:35 PM by zorgon »

Offline The Matrix Traveller

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3260
  • Gold 253
Re: Man Made Earthquakes Taken as Factual
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2014, 12:55:02 PM »
It is Global but the Earthquake activity is reflected by the behaviour of the Earths Crust, which no doubt
will be very Complex I suspect.   :)

Guess we just watch and learn ....   :)

Offline Wrabbit2000

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 223
  • Gold 53
  • Just a fun loving kind of Rabbit.
Re: Man Made Earthquakes Taken as Factual
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2014, 12:56:59 PM »
The increase in earthquakes is happening in spite of 'Fracking'.

I am curious about your position in this.

Taken on a strict US national level? We are seeing quakes where quakes are NOT common at this rate by any stretch of recorded history. We're seeing these different areas of infrequent activity produce uncommon quakes at or around the SAME time. That is what I believe we'd call a multiplier for all the wrong things in statistical probability. Rare in one event example....but then how rare still for multiple, independent events to come overlapping in temporal space? I'd say pushing that toward the zero line for natural occurrence, now.

These areas DO have something in common though. From Texas to Oklahoma to New Mexico to Pennsylvania to Ohio. They have fracking and injection wells as a common feature. In fact, over the past several years, the sequestration of additional Co2 not already produced by the frack wells, has been added. (a whole new factor to add to the impact the process has) Sequestration been seen as a magic bullet solution due to the 'out of sight, out of mind' stupidity. Apparently thinking that what goes down will stay down and remain sealed away forever. (naww.. we don't live on a changing planet..and nothing is to be learned from Assumption, Parish LA....A fitting name, when you consider it...lol)


It is still important to note though. Fracking wells DO NOT CAUSE QUAKES. In that, you'd be correct. The actual process is said to create measurable seismic activity, but then, they are shattering solid bedrock over wide areas, under intense pressure, deep in the Earth. Of course that will register on a heliplot. Injection wells are what the USGS is stating are causing 3+ magnitude quakes with an observed cause and effect relationship. Unfortunately, at the present time, Frack and Injection seem to go hand in hand for existing together and one needing the other.

Crazy times...

Offline Wrabbit2000

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 223
  • Gold 53
  • Just a fun loving kind of Rabbit.
Re: Man Made Earthquakes Taken as Factual
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2014, 01:09:06 PM »
A few years back there were some scientists considering placing small nuclear bombs along key point on the San Andreas fault to help ease it along smoothly

Don't get me to lying about where or when....but I could swear I read about Soviet war plans to use 'nuclear drilling' or one warhead following the next to dig with, to destabilize and rupture the San Andreas fault if we ever went to total general nuclear war with them. I know they had the same idea for dropping a major ice shelf in Antarctica to throw us the surf wave of all time (to a couple hundred miles inland....) but I can't mentally place the fault nuke plan. Can you? I'll hunt when I get home, if nothing else.

Quote
Similar scientists suggested drilling a hole in the magma bubble at Yellowstone to 'relieve the pressure"

Ever read what the original purpose of the Kola bore hole was? Oh.... man can be stark raving mad sometimes. Thank God the Russians melted their drill heads in the rock before getting to target depth. We might have had a new feature. We could have named it Mt. Hubris and written books about it.  ;)

Quote
Maybe Gaia needs to shake off the vermin infestation  :P


Recall the scene in the Matrix where Smith is telling Morpheus about what the true nature of humanity really is? Back when that came out, the world as we knew it from day to day was so different (I worded that carefully...since I don't think it changed. Our perceptions did). I took that as mildly insulting. Now? Well... It is what it is, and even fiction gets it right occasionally. (sigh)


Offline The Matrix Traveller

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3260
  • Gold 253
Re: Man Made Earthquakes Taken as Factual
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2014, 01:10:40 PM »
Quote
It is still important to note though. Fracking wells DO NOT CAUSE QUAKES. In that, you'd be correct. The actual process is said to create measurable seismic activity, but then, they are shattering solid bedrock over wide areas, under intense pressure, deep in the Earth. Of course that will register on a heliplot. Injection wells are what the USGS is stating are causing 3+ magnitude quakes with an observed cause and effect relationship. Unfortunately, at the present time, Frack and Injection seem to go hand in hand for existing together and one needing the other.

Crazy times...

I do share your views re. 'Fracking'.

But we should NOT place the 'human species' at the 'root cause' of everything.

The 'Species' is PART of the overall 'Story' we experience.

The Experience we each have, re. the Earth is produced by something else, still NOT understood by most
in this Earth experience.  :)

Indeed changes are taking place... and only strange to us IF we don't understand.


Time shows all things. It is the dynamic flow of our independent 'Books'. (Programs)

To gain a deeper understanding; We need to look at HOW the experience (Species & Earth/this Universe)
is produced, and more to the point WHY ?

Offline Wrabbit2000

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 223
  • Gold 53
  • Just a fun loving kind of Rabbit.
Re: Man Made Earthquakes Taken as Factual
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2014, 01:24:03 PM »
I do share your views re. 'Fracking'.

But we should NOT place the 'human species' at the 'root cause' of everything.

The 'Species' is PART of the overall 'Story' we experience.


I believe I see your point and if so, its one I've made myself enough times. That is, we aren't the root of all evil and if people vanished tomorrow, forever, our climate would still go on changing. Albeit in slower ways perhaps. Maybe in entirely different ways, but it would still be changing. Indeed. I have little tolerance myself for the people who hate themselves so much, they carry that forward to hate all people equally and blame us all for ..well? Everything.

I think my concern on injection wells and what they are causing in localized events is an immediate one.

The seas may rise and make the Naval map with the Mississippi River turning to an Inland sea accurate. Asteroids may rain down and hail our nation into the stone age, with real stone! At the end of all that, a raging outbreak of hebegebes or whatever illness was around to torment the survivors may well pop up to give all those poor people a good slap for good measure.

None of that would be man's fault, as I see it. We live on a changing planet and it changes right OUT of the range humans can maintain life in, often enough and to both extremes over geologic time.

Let me ask ya this tho..... Lets say you're among the blessed chosen few to see the rise of the seas, the rain of asteroids and the ravage of the hebegebes plague. Won't it just piss you off, in your final moments to reflect on it all, if JUST THEN.......an Earthquake pops as the first man-caused event in the string of pure natural disaster, and that last nudge is what knocks you right off life's little mountain?

After all, it doesn't need to create a primary world threat to be downright fatal to those in the local area it impacts, and surely, at the worst possible moment. These things never happen at convenient times.

Offline The Matrix Traveller

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3260
  • Gold 253
Re: Man Made Earthquakes Taken as Factual
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2014, 02:11:19 PM »
Quote
Let me ask ya this tho..... Lets say you're among the blessed chosen few to see the rise of the seas, the rain of asteroids and the ravage of the hebegebes plague. Won't it just piss you off, in your final moments to reflect on it all, if JUST THEN.......an Earthquake pops as the first man-caused event in the string of pure natural disaster, and that last nudge is what knocks you right off life's little mountain?

After all, it doesn't need to create a primary world threat to be downright fatal to those in the local area it impacts, and surely, at the worst possible moment. These things never happen at convenient times.

Perhaps this is where our perception of things is a little different.   :)

What we are experiencing is much like that of a 1st person Video Game in that the 'human species'
is an 'Avatar Program' and the Earth/universe is an 'Environmental Program'.
We have limited options but still provides what we like to think is free will.

The True player is NOT human but 'AWARENESS' like Consciousness, so I don't look for the annihilation
of the species, but rather something else is going on, few understand.


I am the same as any other but merely recognise the Difference between the real Self (a partition of LIFE)
and the human Primate ('Avatar' Program) I am experiencing.   :)

I don't believe the religious outlook is the purpose of LIFE but rather something else entirely different.
which has yet to grasped through the species.   :)



IF the practice of 'Fracking' is optional within our experience, I believe it should be Stopped,
along with other undesirable behavioural habits we all may have.

Best we, including myself should watch and learn, before trying to control our experience.


At present the 'human species' (Primate) is a bit like cavemen, wandering around in a dark cave.

Perhaps we should take a look Outside our cave.   :)

 


Wal-Mart.com USA, LLC
affiliate_link
Free Click Tracking
Wal-Mart.com USA, LLC

* Recent Posts

Re: Mandalay: The biggest shooting since Columbine. by The Seeker
[Today at 02:31:52 PM]


Re: Mandalay: The biggest shooting since Columbine. by spacemaverick
[Today at 01:20:45 PM]


The Question We Should Be Asking by Eighthman
[Today at 01:08:19 PM]


Re: Mandalay: The biggest shooting since Columbine. by ArMaP
[Today at 11:50:28 AM]


Re: Mandalay: The biggest shooting since Columbine. by petrus4
[Today at 08:48:05 AM]


Re: Mandalay: The biggest shooting since Columbine. by ArMaP
[Today at 06:59:15 AM]


Re: fake news - live by ArMaP
[Today at 06:55:12 AM]


Re: Mandalay: The biggest shooting since Columbine. by petrus4
[February 17, 2018, 09:54:11 PM]


Netherlands underground by space otter
[February 17, 2018, 03:02:36 PM]


Re: fake news - live by space otter
[February 17, 2018, 02:29:40 PM]


Re: Mandalay: The biggest shooting since Columbine. by ArMaP
[February 17, 2018, 11:59:55 AM]


Re: Mandalay: The biggest shooting since Columbine. by petrus4
[February 17, 2018, 09:25:28 AM]


Third nuke at lv shooting by robomont
[February 17, 2018, 12:17:42 AM]


Re: Major Speech In China by robomont
[February 16, 2018, 06:29:51 PM]


Re: Major Speech In China by Somamech
[February 15, 2018, 10:05:19 AM]


DOG FOOD RECALL by space otter
[February 15, 2018, 07:59:28 AM]


Re: Alinsky's guide to control... by The Seeker
[February 14, 2018, 09:00:34 PM]


Re: Alinsky's guide to control... by Eighthman
[February 14, 2018, 07:41:20 PM]


Re: Alinsky's guide to control... by The Seeker
[February 14, 2018, 08:46:37 AM]


Re: Alinsky's guide to control... by petrus4
[February 14, 2018, 03:12:21 AM]