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Author Topic: The Ethical Planetarian Platform; Revision 002  (Read 29868 times)

Offline Pimander

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Re: The Ethical Planetarian Platform; Revision 002
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2012, 09:32:15 AM »
The biggest flaw in this is to try to separate politics from sociological agendas.  It is not possible.

Most of the above aims are political.

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DEFINITION: political adjective

of or relating to the government or public affairs of a country: a period of political and economic stability

relating to the ideas or strategies of a particular party or group in politics: a decision taken for purely political reasons

interested in or active in politics: I’m not very political

motivated by a person’s beliefs or actions concerning politics: a political crime
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/political


The aims above relat(e) to the government or public affairs of a country or the planet generally.  That makes them political.

To implement the changes or change THE LAW requires having the power to do so.  That makes it political in a very real sense.  Do you think those in power will stop engaging in politics because you ask them nicely to step aside?

Change will come by forcing the people in power to change because it will not be politically expedient to do anything else.  That involves being the opposite of politically naive.

Yes, it will not involve behaving in the obscenely distasteful was the majority of successful politicians do.  However, even removing the current banking system is a highly political act and will only be done with a new type of politics. 

There is a reason that the 60s never gave us the world it hoped to.  That was due to not engaging in a politically effective way and never having any real power.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2012, 09:39:57 AM by Pimander »

Offline Amaterasu

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Re: The Ethical Planetarian Platform; Revision 002
« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2012, 02:56:35 PM »
To implement the changes or change THE LAW requires having the power to do so.  That makes it political in a very real sense.  Do you think those in power will stop engaging in politics because you ask them nicely to step aside?

Who's gonna ask?  If They are ignored, and We go about implementing ideas...what are They gonna do?

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Change will come by forcing the people in power to change because it will not be politically expedient to do anything else.  That involves being the opposite of politically naive.

Or...  Ignoring Them and doing what WE want...

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Yes, it will not involve behaving in the obscenely distasteful was the majority of successful politicians do.  However, even removing the current banking system is a highly political act and will only be done with a new type of politics. 

Like spreading awareness to the tipping point such that We just do it.

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There is a reason that the 60s never gave us the world it hoped to.  That was due to not engaging in a politically effective way and never having any real power.

And also not having a clearly defined path to progress on.  My work has been to provide precisely that.
"If the universe is made of mostly Dark Energy...can We use it to run Our cars?"

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Offline Amaterasu

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Re: The Ethical Planetarian Platform; Revision 002
« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2012, 02:58:33 PM »
Back to this...

Exactly, and a general push towards non animal, or non-mammal based food supplies, as to balance the human body and eliminate the meat based issues with our health..we all started out as vegetarians and meat just became a way of feeding when we observed animals eating each other..and adopted the same behaviour patterns.

I found an interesting YT piece:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=U2nD3iAdg-8[/youtube]
"If the universe is made of mostly Dark Energy...can We use it to run Our cars?"

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Offline Littleenki

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Re: The Ethical Planetarian Platform; Revision 002
« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2012, 08:01:48 PM »
Thats a great video, Amy! I remember when I first joined here touting the great meat I get from the farm in Arcadia near me...those ribeyes are soooo good!

Luckily Publix sells greenwise beef now for a pretty good price so I can get it on sale for 8-10 bucks a pound.

Im not rich, but if Im going to buy a steak or two, its not going to be any less than the good stuff!

Be well!
Dave
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Offline Pimander

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Re: The Ethical Planetarian Platform; Revision 002
« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2012, 10:29:17 AM »
Or...  Ignoring Them and doing what WE want...
Unfortunately, you can only ignore the law to an extent.  I am in favour of civil disobedience when undertaken on moral grounds.  However, the law is a useful thing in many ways. 

For example in the UK we have a free health service paid for by taxes.  The law is part of that.  So are laws preventing folks from adding dodgy stuff to our food etc.  There are also laws PROTECTING citizens from those in power.  Lawlessness serves the powerful better than the poor.


Like spreading awareness to the tipping point such that We just do it.
Yes, that is why I am helping to run a site like this.  It is to TRY to spread awareness.  But there is a need for more than awareness even though awareness is an important step in the right direction.

And also not having a clearly defined path to progress on.  My work has been to provide precisely that.
Part of that path has to be the ability to make laws in line with our aims.  It is politicians that make the laws.

We need to promote REAL DEMOCRACY and use it to our advantage by making laws.  The population of Earth is far too large for a society based on political anarchy.  In  a post apocalyptic world that might be different but you cannot at this point change the system based on no laws without widespread famine....

Offline Amaterasu

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Re: The Ethical Planetarian Platform; Revision 002
« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2012, 11:43:24 AM »
Unfortunately, you can only ignore the law to an extent.  I am in favour of civil disobedience when undertaken on moral grounds.  However, the law is a useful thing in many ways. 

Who said anything about "the law?"  I said ignore "Them," the "ELITE."  We will not ignore just "laws."  But We will ignore the orders of the "elite."

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Yes, that is why I am helping to run a site like this.  It is to TRY to spread awareness.  But there is a need for more than awareness even though awareness is an important step in the right direction.

It is the very FIRST step.

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Part of that path has to be the ability to make laws in line with our aims.  It is politicians that make the laws.

Not really.  Making "laws" is a waste of energy and is a prolonged process.  Spread the best IDEAS and People will form around them and move them forward.  Virtually all of Our "laws" are created with money as motive...or to block money motive...  Once money is no longer powerful, Humans will choose Their restrictions more wisely.

Quote
We need to promote REAL DEMOCRACY and use it to our advantage by making laws.  The population of Earth is far too large for a society based on political anarchy.  In  a post apocalyptic world that might be different but you cannot at this point change the system based on no laws without widespread famine....

Stigmergic governance via the web is about as pure a democracy as One can get.  Why do We need more "laws" in a moneyless society?  What "laws" are You thinking of?  How do You figure "The population of Earth is far too large for a society based on political anarchy?"  And how do You figure "you cannot at this point change the system based on no laws without widespread famine?"

I see that Humans will, if all given the opportunity for a lifestyle of today's "elite," will function quite fine within the three Laws.  It is class, and money, and oppression that engender the need to "laws."
[/quote]
"If the universe is made of mostly Dark Energy...can We use it to run Our cars?"

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Offline Pimander

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Re: The Ethical Planetarian Platform; Revision 002
« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2012, 12:10:10 PM »
Governance via the web is a pipe dream for a long time.  Large proportions of the worlds population do not even have running water let alone internet access.

First you need awareness and THE MEANS to be energy independent.  But in the transition, to anything resembling an era of abundance for most, you have to be able to engage politically to run things and make the technology and knowledge available to the millions of people currently out of reach.  Awareness is beyond most of the millions of people in Europe, Japan and North America yet.

I think your aims are commendable.  Your methods of achieving it are destined to fail.  Humanity will wipe itself out long before it happens unless we start to change laws in a democratic and progressive way.  A cabal in control of armies, jails, FEMA camps, water supplies, factories that make PCs, the internet itself, nuclear weapons and more will not let go of power because some of the population ignore them.  To avoid an apocalyptic scenario you have to have a political arm.

I'm with you all the way on making people aware.  However, I am completely against your notion that it would be a bad thing to have political clout.  It is a naive and dangerous position.

Amnesty international and CND are examples of organisations without a true political arm.  Have they achieved their aims?  No they have not!

In the 60s, you guys did have a clear path.  It was universal love, spreading the word and civil disobedience.  You ignored politics.  It failed.  The cabal have been in power for a long time for a reason.

Those who do not learn the lessons of history are condemned to repeat it.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2012, 12:15:09 PM by Pimander »

Offline petrus4

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Re: The Ethical Planetarian Platform; Revision 002
« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2012, 12:49:18 PM »
The cabal have been in power for a long time for a reason.

Yep; and that reason has been that 90% of the population have wanted to be their bitch.  Hitler openly stated in Mein Kampf, that in order to get into power, he didn't create anything that wasn't there already.  Literally the only thing he was doing, was taking advantage of base/negative elements within human nature, that existed anyway.

I am no longer really emotionally invested in this outcome, but I will say that if there are any people out there who want a more positive scenario than what the cabal will give them, then the most important thing to do to start, is realise that the only reason why the cabal are in power at all, is because that's what the majority WANT.



Have a look at this card.  The man and woman in this picture are not truly confined.  The chains looped over their necks are loose enough to be taken off, and their hands and feet are not bound at all.  In other words, they could free themselves at any time, but they CHOOSE not to do so.  Replace the Devil on that card with the eye in the capstone, and you've got the scenario that has existed up to this point.

This is the main thing to understand; it is crucial.  The past scenario that most of you have known about, has existed because enough people have WANTED it.  The Georgia Guidestones scenario is going to end up existing for some people, because they WANT it.  TAP will exist for some, because they WANT it; and so on.  If the majority WANTED the Venus Project, then they would literally move heaven and Earth to make it happen.  Zorgon has told me that millions of people would literally be willing to kill in defense of Capitalism, and indeed, millions of people already have.

That is the sole reason why any situation exists; because someone wants it.  We don't think it, but choice is ALWAYS honoured by the system.  If you are where you are, it's because on some level, even if it's one you don't know about, you want to be there; because if you didn't, you'd be somewhere else.
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Offline Amaterasu

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Re: The Ethical Planetarian Platform; Revision 002
« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2012, 12:56:30 PM »
Governance via the web is a pipe dream for a long time.  Large proportions of the worlds population do not even have running water let alone internet access.

And You think We cannot change that with free energy and a desire to change that?

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First you need awareness and THE MEANS to be energy independent.  But in the transition, to anything resembling an era of abundance for most, you have to be able to engage politically to run things and make the technology and knowledge available to the millions of people currently out of reach.  Awareness is beyond most of the millions of people in Europe, Japan and North America yet.

You provide it initially where You can and leverage the result into more spread...

Quote
I think your aims are commendable.  Your methods of achieving it are destined to fail.  Humanity will wipe itself out long before it happens unless we start to change laws in a democratic and progressive way.  A cabal in control of armies, jails, FEMA camps, water supplies, factories that make PCs, the internet itself, nuclear weapons and more will not let go of power because some of the population ignore them.  To avoid an apocalyptic scenario you have to have a political arm.

And "laws" are keeping Them at bay?  No, "laws" are not the answer.  THEY will ignore US.  You think movements are powerless, then? 

Quote
I'm with you all the way on making people aware.  However, I am completely against your notion that it would be a bad thing to have political clout.  It is a naive and dangerous position.

Where did I say it would be a "bad thing?!?"  I'm saying the clout will emerge with the awareness.  Once the tipping point is reached, the clout will be complete.

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Amnesty international and CND are examples of organisations without a true political arm.  Have they achieved their aims?  No they have not!

I suspect They are gatekeeper organizations...  Make it LOOK like something is being worked on.  And if They weren't initially, They have been infiltrated and taken over...

Quote
In the 60s, you guys did have a clear path.  It was universal love, spreading the word and civil disobedience.  You ignored politics.  It failed.  The cabal have been in power for a long time for a reason.

No...  That is not a clear path.  That is just moving away from, not towards anything specific.

Quote
Those who do not learn the lessons of history are condemned to repeat it.

Agreed.  Point being?
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Offline petrus4

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Re: The Ethical Planetarian Platform; Revision 002
« Reply #24 on: October 20, 2012, 01:17:01 PM »
No...  That is not a clear path.  That is just moving away from, not towards anything specific.

The 60s also weren't actually as much of a failure as people think, in that sense.  That period was about establishing initial context.  You can't go from a scenario that consists purely of things people know about, to something else which is radically and systemically different, overnight.  We have a scenario now (moreso in some parts of the world than others, admittedly, which is part of the reason why I'm going back to Nimbin) where people have had at least some exposure to certain ideas, whereas before probably 1967, nobody really did.

Yes, it could have gone further than it did, if more within the population had wanted it to, and if certain individuals had not been shot by certain other individuals, which probably had the effect of intimidating large numbers of others who wanted things to move forward more.  I am not in denial about any of that.

It keeps coming back to a scenario where people WANT to relinquish their own sovereignty to someone else, who they think will take care of them, and make better decisions for them, than they think they're capable of making by themselves.  Not only do the cabal take advantage of that mentality in pre-existing terms, but they also actively encourage it to perpetuate as much as they can.  They do not want a society of adults; because if they get that, their game is over.  They only rule to the extent that they do, because most people do not want to wipe their own backsides, developmentally speaking.
"Sacred cows make the tastiest hamburgers."
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Offline petrus4

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Re: The Ethical Planetarian Platform; Revision 002
« Reply #25 on: October 20, 2012, 01:28:06 PM »
In the 60s, you guys did have a clear path.  It was universal love, spreading the word and civil disobedience.

As another point on this score, the concept of civil disobedience didn't go anywhere near far enough.

Civil disobedience in Gandhi or MLK's sense of the term, basically consisted purely of refusing to co-operate with the system as it currently existed.  The problem with that, was that at the same time, there wasn't much real talk (or thought, for that matter) about truly concrete plans for alternative institutions.  It's exactly like Occupy now; who are basically useless, because while they scream loudly at the corporate world about what victims they view themselves as being, any remote suggestion that they give up their mobile phones and try and develop a non-corporate form of telecommunications, will simply get you laughed at. 

That was actually done in Egypt for a very brief period during the Mubarak incident, but was predictably abandoned again as soon as the mobile phone towers were turned back on again. 

Very few people who involve themselves in any form of protest or civil disobedience, truly want the sort of change which would involve them becoming genuinely sovereign.  Usually what motivates them to protest, is a scenario where the actions of government and corporations are hurting them, but what they really want, is simply a removal of the specific behaviour which causes said pain, at which point they will very gladly resume being a willing part of the system. 

They do not want a genuinely new scenario, because they still do not believe, fundamentally, that they have the ability to make beneficial decisions for themselves.  They simply want a scenario where they can trust government and corporations to truly protect their interests, so they can go back to sleep.  What they don't understand is that that will never happen, because the interests of government and corporations have very little in common with those of the general population.
"Sacred cows make the tastiest hamburgers."
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Offline Pimander

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Re: The Ethical Planetarian Platform; Revision 002
« Reply #26 on: October 20, 2012, 03:09:12 PM »
I am no longer really emotionally invested in this outcome, but I will say that if there are any people out there who want a more positive scenario than what the cabal will give them, then the most important thing to do to start, is realise that the only reason why the cabal are in power at all, is because that's what the majority WANT.
And when the majority do not you are in a position to change things democratically.  To politically disengage is foolish and delays the transition.



And "laws" are keeping Them at bay?  No, "laws" are not the answer.  THEY will ignore US.  You think movements are powerless, then?
No, I think that in the transition period apolitical movements are not powerful enough to usher in an era of abundance.  That is the lesson I have learned for Amnesty, Greenpeace, CND and the sixties flower power movement generally.  Noble aims but politically naive.  I think that I have already made myself clear.

On the other hand, the right kind of political movement is the only one that will stop either a disaster or the cabal clinging to power for a lot longer.  Unfortunately,you will be long dead before things move far unless a movement with the political nous and right principles to implement some of your ideas comes along.

I suspect They are gatekeeper organizations [CND and Amnesty International]...  Make it LOOK like something is being worked on.  And if They weren't initially, They have been infiltrated and taken over...
They are abject failures.  That is the lesson to take.


Those who do not learn the lessons of history are condemned to repeat it.

Agreed.  Point being?
That I am convinced that you have not learned said lessons.


I hope I am wrong and you live to see your dream.  I suspect without a political force to assist in the transition, that it is a long way off.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2012, 03:13:31 PM by Pimander »

Offline Amaterasu

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Re: The Ethical Planetarian Platform; Revision 002
« Reply #27 on: October 21, 2012, 07:28:16 AM »
The 60s also weren't actually as much of a failure as people think, in that sense.  That period was about establishing initial context.  You can't go from a scenario that consists purely of things people know about, to something else which is radically and systemically different, overnight.  We have a scenario now (moreso in some parts of the world than others, admittedly, which is part of the reason why I'm going back to Nimbin) where people have had at least some exposure to certain ideas, whereas before probably 1967, nobody really did.

Agreed.

Quote
It keeps coming back to a scenario where people WANT to relinquish their own sovereignty to someone else, who they think will take care of them, and make better decisions for them, than they think they're capable of making by themselves.  Not only do the cabal take advantage of that mentality in pre-existing terms, but they also actively encourage it to perpetuate as much as they can.  They do not want a society of adults; because if they get that, their game is over.  They only rule to the extent that they do, because most people do not want to wipe their own backsides, developmentally speaking.

And I say People are led to wanting to relinquish Their sovereignty in a world where They are dependent on money, cajoled to accept it by the money-holders.  If They have no other ways of obtaining what They need and want, They will fall into line.  And to be sure, there will be communities in TAP that grow around ideas and leaders - but no One will be forced to join, forced to work, forced to do anything that is not contributing to Their bliss.

TAP has the advantage in that One can do and believe as One pleases within three Laws...  The only "losers" are Those presently holding power over Others through money.
"If the universe is made of mostly Dark Energy...can We use it to run Our cars?"

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Offline Shasta56

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Re: The Ethical Planetarian Platform; Revision 002
« Reply #28 on: October 21, 2012, 07:43:58 AM »
Con is the ooposite of pro.  Congress is the opposite of progress.

Shasta
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Offline Amaterasu

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Re: The Ethical Planetarian Platform; Revision 002
« Reply #29 on: October 21, 2012, 07:55:32 AM »
No, I think that in the transition period apolitical movements are not powerful enough to usher in an era of abundance.  That is the lesson I have learned for Amnesty, Greenpeace, CND and the sixties flower power movement generally.  Noble aims but politically naive.  I think that I have already made myself clear.

Their movements did not benefit all the 99% of Us.  There was lots of disagreement.  TAP offers advantage to ALL the 99%.  Only the 1% "lose" and all They lose is the power over Others.  I say that few will have argument...

Quote
On the other hand, the right kind of political movement is the only one that will stop either a disaster or the cabal clinging to power for a lot longer.  Unfortunately,you will be long dead before things move far unless a movement with the political nous and right principles to implement some of your ideas comes along.

I think You are failing to see that a movement of 99% of Us in that direction IS a "political" movement.  It is the politics of a new paradigm.

Quote
They are abject failures.  That is the lesson to take.

That I am convinced that you have not learned said lessons.

And I am convinced that You don't see that there is a vast difference between these movements in a scarcity paradigm, where a number of People feel threatened through money issues mainly, and The Abundance Paradigm, which threatens only power over Others but does not take away materially - and in fact provides vastly more for most.

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I hope I am wrong and you live to see your dream.  I suspect without a political force to assist in the transition, that it is a long way off.

Once the tipping point has been reached, the force will be - or really will transcend - politics.  And it is only as far away as We choose not to spread it.
"If the universe is made of mostly Dark Energy...can We use it to run Our cars?"

"If You want peace, take the profit out of war."

 


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