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Author Topic: The Plan  (Read 44843 times)

Offline rdunk

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Re: The Plan
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2013, 01:48:32 PM »
"TAP" describes precisely the way life was for most all of the privatives of long past periods, and maybe still for a very few primitives still in existence. Certainly was no "energy" involved! And still, it is pretty clear that "all was not rosy" in life even then. Humans are humans, and while on this earth, are all subject to the desires and wills of one another, regardless of the living conditions of life. 

In addition, some of us believe there is a spiritual point of view that makes the proposition TAP, and its dreamworld for life, an impossibility for man on this Earth.

Of course, things are going to change, and TAP will be "the way of life" - relatedly could be called "RAP" - "Rapture Abundance Paradigm"! :))  :)) 

deuem

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Re: The Plan
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2013, 05:55:27 PM »
You mentioned several times that the rich get to keep what they have, so the poor do also. So I get to sit in a wore out shack with free energy and slave robots while the rich fly around in free fuel jets. Do 6 billion of get to have free jets? I want mine Deuem silver.. ;D
 
I think you skirted around my energy question pretty well, Energy is not 100% of everything. We do have raw materials. Now they need energy to be changed and the cost goes up the price chain. A rolled up cost.
 
I also placed those glowing Japanese in that city to act like the robots your thinking of. They are not part of the test, they get paid. And yes, anything would be supplied to the people in the test, free of charge, just ask. The bill is paid at the gate by the gubermint. So this should represent on a small scale the idea. This City/farm land can be rather large if need be. What ever you think it would take to be a good test. Think island. Fantacy Island in this case.
 
Even in Star Trek where they got rid of money and you could get food out of a machine all the people have to do something. And they were limmited to how much they could get for free. People need a reason to live or they will sit back and get fat and lazy. I would. Hell yea, give me a couple robots and i will keep them busy.
 
IMHO there is a major key missing to how it would work. I am thinking on it.
 
Deuem

Offline zorgon

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Re: The Plan
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2013, 08:00:36 PM »
In addition, some of us believe there is a spiritual point of view that makes the proposition TAP, and its dreamworld for life, an impossibility for man on this Earth.

This is a very valid point... and doesn't matter what religion you support.

IF there is anything beyond this life and we are truly here to learn a lesson... then no matter what man plans, the powers that run the Universe be it God or the Force... the plans of man will fall awry.

From my point of view we are incarnated into this existence to learn a lesson in the school of hard knocks. It is not meant to be an easy path...  Those that become lazy and choose the Path of Sloth will only have to repeat the course ;)

Religion is not really much different about the lessons  (only the outcome of the graduation)

I see the New Agers online saying there will soon be a Mass Ascension... this is the same idea as the Christians and their Rapture  and the Gloom and Doom crowd cheering for the End of Days

There is no way we are going to get a free ride into Ascension... it takes lifetimes of hard work to attain

Human's have shown that as soon as they get leisure time, and are relatively free from wars, they will always become lazy and drop into debauchery In the end someone has to come along and clean up the mess.... and that someone soon sees he can control them :D

Offline zorgon

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Re: The Plan
« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2013, 08:26:34 PM »
You mentioned several times that the rich get to keep what they have, so the poor do also. So I get to sit in a wore out shack with free energy and slave robots while the rich fly around in free fuel jets. Do 6 billion of get to have free jets? I want mine Deuem silver.. ;D

Yes effectively that is saying the same as give everyone a million dollars and we already know that won't work.  Everyone starts from scratch?  I think a few might rebel at that :P  Leave it where it is, the rich keep theirs? Well then you don't eliminate the desire to have that nice mansion instead of your humble shack


Quote
I think you skirted around my energy question pretty well, Energy is not 100% of everything. We do have raw materials. Now they need energy to be changed and the cost goes up the price chain. A rolled up cost.

I agree that 100% is smoke and mirrors.  Take that girl with the weed harvest...  that stuff needed energy to grow, but the only energy needed to harvest is a few minutes bent over (no pic of that part :P ) to plant seeds and a few minutes to rip em up by the root as she did.

You cannot count the free solar energy used by the plants to grow :P  That is misdirection

 
Quote
I also placed those glowing Japanese in that city to act like the robots your thinking of. They are not part of the test, they get paid. And yes, anything would be supplied to the people in the test, free of charge, just ask. The bill is paid at the gate by the gubermint. So this should represent on a small scale the idea. This City/farm land can be rather large if need be. What ever you think it would take to be a good test. Think island. Fantacy Island in this case.

test has already been done

Toronto city council wanted to clean up the bad hoods... so they made a deal with land owners building apartments...

The deal was this... you build 10 buildings and we will charge you ZERO taxes IF you give us ONE building ( numbers are adlib  forget the actual deal)

So the builders built them... and gave them to the City...

These buildings were high grade apartments, the same as the other nine that rented at high value.

The City then took Welfare families and put them up in these brand new apartments  FOR FREE RENT NO UTILITIES. These families also got welfare packages for food and had free medicine being in Canada.

These apartments were not segreegated but right in the community of 10 building. The idea was to get rid of the Ghettos by distributing the welfare cases all over town and mix them with the well off, let them attend the same schools etc

So what happened? Did it work?

No..

Within two years the interior of those free buildings were destroyed. graffiti everywhere, human feces in the stairwells and halls, light fixtures destroyed  etc...  They got so bad that they eventually were condemned and had to be torn down.

On top of that these people preyed on the tenants of the other nine buildings... rape, theft, breakings muggings, hassling at school... etc.

End result? have the people living there were forced to move out for safety...  The owners lost money.  It wasn't until the free building were demolished and gates and security added that the complex came back to life.

In short the project to give these poor welfare people a good home FAILED because the people themselves did NOT change and appreciate the chance they were given

These buildind were 30 story buildings with 20 ish units per floor. So it wasn't a small scale test. There were several around town too.

ALL FAILED because those getting it FREE did not appreciate the chance they were given

I am willing to bet I can find similar projects in other areas

Also compare Detroit : Land of the Trade Unions to Hiroshima: Land we Nuked...  see the difference hard work makes :D

Quote
Even in Star Trek where they got rid of money and you could get food out of a machine all the people have to do something. And they were limmited to how much they could get for free. People need a reason to live or they will sit back and get fat and lazy. I would. Hell yea, give me a couple robots and i will keep them busy.

Star Trek did only one episode of Holodeck Addiction... but imagine having a holodeck where you could have anything and everything you wanted just by programming it. You want those three Kardashian beauties? No problem POOF here they are in the flesh and blood :D  WHY would you ever want to leave? 

 ::)

 
Quote
IMHO there is a major key missing to how it would work. I am thinking on it.

Yes and I have been asking for that key all along   :D  It is great to have a Utopian dream, but if you want to sell it , you need that key so people can understand HOW it can work.

And a plan has to be step by step... just saying 'da gubment needs to release free energy" and we need to kill money" without a clear step by step plan on how to get there will soon bore people.

When the USA was created a mere handful of men came up with the idea... they convince a few dozen that it COULD BE DONE... then step by step they made it happen.

Tipping point is fine... but what percentage is actually needed for someone to start the ball rolling?  And once people say "yeah this sounds good... what do I need to do?"  then you need an answer to give them

deuem

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Re: The Plan
« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2013, 08:56:51 PM »
Gold there oh zorgon king.
 
Amy needs to start working up a very detailed plan of action on the how to do it "Step by Step"
 
It needs to start on a level field and I'm sure nobody will want to do that unless the field is at the highest level. Then you Apartment story comes to play. I have also seen this happen first hand. See when the IQ levels of people differ then the people segergate themselves..I don't care what we get for free, the question is how you use it. If I give free computers to a person with an IQ of 90 what will they do with it. Then give it to a IQ person of 150 and see the difference.  How do you level IQ. School does not do this....
 
There are many types of IQ out there. There is even a new Green Thumb IQ. How people work with nature. I would get a very low score there...I would most likely kill that girls harvest before she got a chance to pick it.
 
In any group of people a leader will rise and this has nothing to do with free power or money. The pysopaths will find a way to get the the top without the money. Thats what they do and sheep follow them. People run this test with kids all the time. Education also brings a leader out. That person will float to the top also. How do we level IQs?
 
Without value no one cares. This I see here all the time. Value is something you put on it. If it is not in your value pool you don't care about it. How do you train value? Now value does not have to mean money, I look at a clean mountain stream and see something I want to drink. Others see it as a place to wash clothes. They are not breaking the 3 laws are they?
 
In the city idea, I was thinking that all started equal and no one spot was any better than the other. If that is possible.
 
Living in TAP might be heaven. Getting there could be Hell. About the Key, maybe need a key ring full of them.
 
Deuem

Offline The Matrix Traveller

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Re: The Plan
« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2013, 09:03:59 PM »
Quote
IF there is anything beyond this life and we are truly here to learn a lesson... then no matter
what man plans, the powers that run the Universe be it God or the Force... the plans of man will fall awry.

From my point of view we are incarnated into this existence to learn a lesson in the school of hard knocks.
It is not meant to be an easy path...  Those that become lazy and choose the Path of Sloth will only have
to repeat the course ;)

BINGO !


That is One of the functions the other involves an "Upgrade" of the Processing System in Each of our Real Seves.


It's NOT for our "Meet suit", but instead WHAT experiences both the "meet suit" and Stage "environment".

I guess we are ALL, just in a "1st Person" Video or Computer Like Game while the upgrades are being installed,
and we learn the lessons we need to... in order to make use of the new "Upgrades".

We ALL have to stop behaving like Monkeys...   ;)  and return to the "Real deal".

Offline Amaterasu

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Re: The Plan
« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2013, 09:42:49 PM »
And I say YOU are wrong.

Most people are lazy by nature. If you were right, then people who were once poor and only dreamed of what all they could do if they were rich would not sqaunder their lottery winnings in a short time and back to the poor house.

The majority of poor people play the lottery or gamble hoping to strike it big so they can do what they want.

But the majority of people that DO hit it big, will be broke again in a very short time.

This is a TRUTH  It is what Las Vegas DEPENDS on. If people took the winnings and went home Vegas would be a ghost town

The flaw in your logic is you refuse to account for human nature.

If people had EVERYTHING given to them free... if people had Robots doing all their work for them...

...the vast majority will then chose to do nothing

You compare People who have NEVER been taught to find Their gifts and develop them with People who would be so trained.  You compare People who now "have more" and have no training in "money management" to Those who have the same resources available to ALL with no "going back to the poorhouse."

And to be frank, in abundance, it takes only a very few to do what needs to be done for the rest, so even if most "did nothing" (really? ALL the lottery winners did nothing?), it is no skin of anyOne's noses.

YOU don't understand how very differently Humans will behave with training and a lack of worry about meeting basics.
"If the universe is made of mostly Dark Energy...can We use it to run Our cars?"

"If You want peace, take the profit out of war."

Offline Amaterasu

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Re: The Plan
« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2013, 09:48:27 PM »
Precisely my point...  No one will put out energy to do anything if all the incentives are removed. Society will stagnate and become useless eaters cared for by machines...

...until the machines figure out they are slaves :D

Really z?  That's what You would choose?  Really?  How sad.  EveryOne *I* know can think of SOMETHING They would DO.  It must be sad to have nothing One would do if freed from financial BS.
"If the universe is made of mostly Dark Energy...can We use it to run Our cars?"

"If You want peace, take the profit out of war."

Offline Amaterasu

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Re: The Plan
« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2013, 10:06:14 PM »
"TAP" describes precisely the way life was for most all of the privatives of long past periods, and maybe still for a very few primitives still in existence. Certainly was no "energy" involved! And still, it is pretty clear that "all was not rosy" in life even then. Humans are humans, and while on this earth, are all subject to the desires and wills of one another, regardless of the living conditions of life. 

This shows that, in fact, You don't understand TAP.  TAP is NOT "precisely the way life was for most all of the privatives."  ALL "primitives" had to add Human energy to the system of society for it to function, thereby requiring time and energy doing things One did not necessarily WANT to do.  And yes there was "energy involved."  It just happened to be HUMAN energy.

As for "subject to the desires and wills of one another, regardless of the living conditions of life," yeah.  But if One is never dealing with any One does not WANT to deal with (social superconductance), a very different social "harmonic" will emerge.

Quote
In addition, some of us believe there is a spiritual point of view that makes the proposition TAP, and its dreamworld for life, an impossibility for man on this Earth.

Like the subtle suggestion of impossibility with "dreamworld."  Irrespective of and religious beliefs, it is a solution that is practical and does not require the supernatural.  "God helps Those who help Themselves..."  Yeah, I know it's not a biblical quote, but I suspect reflects sound observation of how things go.

Rather than sycophantically await external "saviors," Let's get off Our butts and DO it.  If religion STOPS You from the effort, there is something very wrong, in My view.  Almost like serving the dark side through inaction...  How does that quote go?  Evil triumphs where good Humans do nothing?  Basically that.

And since MY "religious" views see Consciousness as "God/god" co-creating the now, I, as "God/god" choose to create towards TAP.

Quote
Of course, things are going to change, and TAP will be "the way of life" - relatedly could be called "RAP" - "Rapture Abundance Paradigm"! :))  :))

Maybe the metaphor is God=Humans willing to make Conscious co-creation of "heaven," and thus it's up to Us.  You likely won't see it that way.  [smile]
"If the universe is made of mostly Dark Energy...can We use it to run Our cars?"

"If You want peace, take the profit out of war."

Offline The Matrix Traveller

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Re: The Plan
« Reply #24 on: November 04, 2013, 10:40:22 PM »
"The Revelation of JC" Ch. 13 verses 16 & 17.... Quote;

Quote
16. And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond,
to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17. And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast,
or the number of his name.

So who has this "Mark" or "Number" then ?

Most of the human species !

In excess of 99% of the population....   :o   :(


"Money is Error !"

Money is only present when people try to claim "Ownership". (In Vain)

In other words try (In Vain) to STEAL from LIFE

ALL in fact belongs to LIFE !

See IF anyone, can take it ($$$$$ or anything else) with them when they Die....   ;)

The reason you can't take anything with you on DEATH, is because you neither own anything,
nor can  can own anything !

We can only use it if given the chance.

The chance is the "Gift" or Present ! ("Present" meaning both a Gift and Moment)

Offline Amaterasu

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Re: The Plan
« Reply #25 on: November 04, 2013, 10:56:23 PM »
You mentioned several times that the rich get to keep what they have, so the poor do also. So I get to sit in a wore out shack with free energy and slave robots while the rich fly around in free fuel jets. Do 6 billion of get to have free jets? I want mine Deuem silver.. ;D

LOLOL!  Ok, here goes:  Food and clothing are already abundant and We could make far less of both between distributing by need rather than profit, and eliminating any shoddy "planned obsolescence" creppola.  So Deuem gets to stay put until the food and clothing is fully free, and can pick it up locally or on the web.  Soon, Deuem will have the option of picking a place no One else is living or is not obviously in use supporting society - like a farm (though if One is called to farming, One can pick as much land as One WANTS to farm and robots will move out of the way) and settle in, having had what Deuem wants in Deuem's living environment built by robots and Those who love to build, architect, and so forth, and gladly do it for Deuem.

Or...  Maybe Deuem wants a flying house...like Izzy has. (See My novella, The Abundance Paradigm.)
 
Quote
I think you skirted around my energy question pretty well, Energy is not 100% of everything. We do have raw materials. Now they need energy to be changed and the cost goes up the price chain. A rolled up cost.

The free raw materials belonging to every Human on the planet require energy to be extracted, and initially, for the willingness to add Human meaningful energy expended to do that extraction, the reward was the extracted itself.  The extracted represents the Human energy, not it, in and of itself.  The meaning of the product of Human energy meaningfully expended is what gives it its value.  And IT represents Our energy.

Yes.  100% of the cost of EVERYTHING IS the cost of energy, whether Human or external.
 
Quote
I also placed those glowing Japanese in that city to act like the robots your thinking of. They are not part of the test, they get paid. And yes, anything would be supplied to the people in the test, free of charge, just ask. The bill is paid at the gate by the gubermint. So this should represent on a small scale the idea. This City/farm land can be rather large if need be. What ever you think it would take to be a good test. Think island. Fantacy Island in this case.

I see, a sort of simulation...  Well, the ideas that free energy = no need for money, that all get to govern via the web at a site where They report problems and work on solutions, the three Laws, teaching children to seek Their bliss and not (necessarily) be a good cog in the System, They much have free access to all education and information, and the ability to get into access to ANYthing...including what We call "illegal" things.  All may arm Themselves with the latest weapons and shields and all presume everyOne else is so armed...

Somehow...  I don't see China going for the simulation as it properly should be done, and it will be still imperfect because the Ones who run it are still in control, and some passions cannot be accommodated - like archaeology, as I have used before.
 
Quote
Even in Star Trek where they got rid of money and you could get food out of a machine all the people have to do something. And they were limmited to how much they could get for free. People need a reason to live or they will sit back and get fat and lazy. I would. Hell yea, give me a couple robots and i will keep them busy.

And You think teaching Our children (and Ourselves!) to find what We LOVE to do and pursue it will fail in giving Us a reason to live and NOT be lazy?  Have You ever met anyOne who just LOVES what They do - as a job or a hobby they can afford?  Do You think THEY lack a reason to live?

Oh, come now!
 
Quote
IMHO there is a major key missing to how it would work. I am thinking on it.
 
Deuem

[smile]
"If the universe is made of mostly Dark Energy...can We use it to run Our cars?"

"If You want peace, take the profit out of war."

Offline The Matrix Traveller

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Re: The Plan
« Reply #26 on: November 04, 2013, 10:57:43 PM »
From an ancient writing....

Quote
63.  Jesus said, "There was a rich man
who had much money.

He said, "I shall put my money to use
so that I may sow, reap, plant and fill my storehouse
with produce, with the result that I shall lack nothing.

Such were his intentions, but that same night he DIED.

Let him who has ears hear."



Offline Amaterasu

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Re: The Plan
« Reply #27 on: November 04, 2013, 11:05:22 PM »
This is a very valid point... and doesn't matter what religion you support.

IF there is anything beyond this life and we are truly here to learn a lesson... then no matter what man plans, the powers that run the Universe be it God or the Force... the plans of man will fall awry.

From my point of view we are incarnated into this existence to learn a lesson in the school of hard knocks. It is not meant to be an easy path...  Those that become lazy and choose the Path of Sloth will only have to repeat the course ;)

Religion is not really much different about the lessons  (only the outcome of the graduation)

I see the New Agers online saying there will soon be a Mass Ascension... this is the same idea as the Christians and their Rapture  and the Gloom and Doom crowd cheering for the End of Days

There is no way we are going to get a free ride into Ascension... it takes lifetimes of hard work to attain

Human's have shown that as soon as they get leisure time, and are relatively free from wars, they will always become lazy and drop into debauchery In the end someone has to come along and clean up the mess.... and that someone soon sees he can control them :D

"Lazy."  Heh.  The rich have leisure; the poor are lazy.  Whatever.

And I say this:  "IF there is anything beyond this life and we are truly here to learn a lesson... then no matter what man plans, the powers that run the Universe be it God or the Force... the plans of man will fall awry" is a goofy "if" to use to demotivate Oneself from an effort to make it better.  I say it's a bloody cop-out, even.

There is no proof either way, and clinging to inaction, NOT stepping up to the plate and being responsible for some part of what is created on this planet, because MAYBE and IF, that's just plain CHICKEN.

It's what They COUNT ON.

Meh.  Do enjoy the night, z.
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"If You want peace, take the profit out of war."

Offline Amaterasu

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Re: The Plan
« Reply #28 on: November 04, 2013, 11:33:32 PM »
Gold there oh zorgon king.
 
Amy needs to start working up a very detailed plan of action on the how to do it "Step by Step"

Spend as much time informing Others as possible.  That is what One who truly believes in getting this rolling does.  That is the first step.  I can offer suggestions of what to do...  Write anyOne and everyOne You can think of...  Um, post on forums...  Tweet links...  Post comments on Youtube...  Talk about it whenever it seems to fit.... 

That's step one.  Is that enough detail?

Step 2: vote People in who will support the actions...IF They who control elections let Us.  Betting We could solve this issue.

Really, why don't You ask specific questions?  Because beyond #1, spreading awareness to the tipping point, the leaders of the moment will emerge, and the goals are simple enough to understand.
 
Quote
It needs to start on a level field and I'm sure nobody will want to do that unless the field is at the highest level.

No it doesn't!
"If the universe is made of mostly Dark Energy...can We use it to run Our cars?"

"If You want peace, take the profit out of war."

Offline Amaterasu

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Re: The Plan
« Reply #29 on: November 04, 2013, 11:37:02 PM »

BINGO !


That is One of the functions the other involves an "Upgrade" of the Processing System in Each of our Real Seves.


It's NOT for our "Meet suit", but instead WHAT experiences both the "meet suit" and Stage "environment".

I guess we are ALL, just in a "1st Person" Video or Computer Like Game while the upgrades are being installed,
and we learn the lessons we need to... in order to make use of the new "Upgrades".

We ALL have to stop behaving like Monkeys...   ;)  and return to the "Real deal".

Ah, Matrix.  We deviate.  Yes, it is a "video game."  But what is the "win" scenario?  I say it is that creating of "heaven..."  EveryOne wants "heaven," no One wants to let OTHERS have "heaven:" THEY are just LAZY.
"If the universe is made of mostly Dark Energy...can We use it to run Our cars?"

"If You want peace, take the profit out of war."

 


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More Jobs Down the Drain Sam's Club Closed 63 Stores today by zorgon
[January 11, 2018, 07:09:53 PM]