Author Topic: they know what you are doing  (Read 126474 times)

Offline Sgt.Rocknroll

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Re: they know what you are doing
« Reply #360 on: October 29, 2013, 04:27:59 PM »
I really don't se what the big deal is. As stated, we spy, they spy, we all spy. It's been going on since the beginning of time. And will continue!
Non nobis, Domine, non nobis, sed nomini Tuo da gloriam

sky otter

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Re: they know what you are doing
« Reply #361 on: October 30, 2013, 01:50:30 PM »

yep..what sgt. said

Russia Spying On G20 Leaders? Kremlin Denies Italian Reports Of Skullduggery

Reuters  |  Posted: 10/30/2013 6:52 am EDT  |  Updated: 10/30/2013 8:39 am EDT

ROME/MOSCOW, Oct 30 (Reuters) - Russia has denied reports that its intelligence services spied on hundreds of foreign delegates at a Group of 20 summit in St Petersburg in September using gifts such as teddy bears, diaries and free USB keys.

Quoting a report from the European Council's security office to Italian intelligence services, Italy's Corriere della Sera daily has reported this week that at least 300 such devices were issued at the Sept. 5-6 summit and were revealed to be spy gear during security debriefing sessions last month.

The report fuels controversy over international espionage after reports that U.S. intelligence services had conducted telephone surveillance of allied countries and leaders.

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said he did not know what the source of the latest allegations was.

"This is undoubtedly nothing but an attempt to shift the focus from issues that truly exist in relations between European capitals and Washington to unsubstantiated, non-existent issues," he was quoted as saying by RIA news agency.

Tension between the United States and its allies has grown over reports that European leaders including German Chancellor Angela Merkel had been spied on by U.S. intelligence services.

According to Corriere della Sera, a regular debriefing with European Council President Herman Van Rompuy and other EU delegates revealed they had been given souvenir USB keys and cables to connect smartphones with personal computers.

It said EU officials alerted German intelligence services which conducted detailed tests on the devices.

"These are devices adapted to the clandestine interception of data from computers and mobile telephones," the newspaper quoted an initial report as saying.

Daily La Stampa newspaper said the devices showed "anomalies" and signs of "manipulation" but it was not certain how much information had been collected by Russian spies.

The reports appear to show a more traditional pattern of intelligence gathering than the reported U.S. snooping.

The Guardian newspaper reported in July that British intelligence services had spied on G20 delegates at a summit in 2009, tricking some delegates into using free

internet cafes apparently set up for their benefit. (Reporting by James MacKenzie, additional reporting by Gabriela Baczynska; Editing by Alistair Lyon)

sky otter

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Re: they know what you are doing
« Reply #362 on: November 02, 2013, 08:37:56 PM »


European agencies reportedly working on mass spying
5 hr ago By Estelle Shirbon of Reuters

The Guardian reported that European spy agencies are collaborating on mass surveillance of the Internet and phone traffic.

LONDON — Spy agencies across Western Europe are working together on mass surveillance of Internet and phone traffic comparable to programs run by their U.S. counterpart denounced by European governments, Britain's Guardian newspaper reported Saturday.

Citing documents leaked by fugitive former U.S. National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden, the Guardian said methods included tapping into fiber optic cables and working covertly with private telecommunications companies.

The Guardian named Germany, France, Spain, Sweden and the Netherlands as countries where intelligence agencies had been developing such methods in cooperation with counterparts including Britain's surveillance agency GCHQ.

The report is potentially embarrassing for governments, especially in Germany and France which have been the most vocal in protesting about U.S. mass surveillance of European communication networks revealed by Snowden since June.

Germany, jointly with Brazil, circulated a draft resolution to a U.N. General Assembly committee on Friday that called for an end to excessive electronic surveillance, data collection and other gross invasions of privacy.

There has been particular anger in Germany, a close ally of the United States, over the revelation that the NSA monitored the mobile phone of Chancellor Angela Merkel.

Snowden has written an open letter to Merkel and other German authorities to say he is counting on international support to stop Washington's "persecution" of him.

Germany's BND federal intelligence service said there had been considerations in 2008 about merging German security services' surveillance of telecommunications, which would have required changes to telecommunication and security laws.

It said it had exchanged experiences with the British services on this in 2008 but these discussions had focused on technical rather than legal issues. The BND added that it regularly held such exchanges on technical developments with other European services.

"It is incorrect that Germany's BND federal intelligence service tried to circumvent legal restrictions to be able to implement British acquisition technology. On this point too the BND complied with the law," a BND spokesman said.

The Guardian said GCHQ files leaked by Snowden showed the British agency taking credit for advising European counterparts on how to get around domestic laws intended to restrict their surveillance powers.


Citing a 2008 GCHQ country-by-country report, the Guardian said the British spies were particularly impressed with Germany's BND agency, which they said had "huge technological potential and good access to the heart of the Internet".

"We have been assisting the BND ... in making the case for reform or reinterpretation of the very restrictive interception legislation in Germany," the GCHQ document said, according to the Guardian.

The GCHQ had also praised France's DGSE agency and in particular its close ties with an unnamed telecommunications company, a relationship from which GCHQ hoped to benefit.

"We have made contact with the DGSE's main industry partner, who has some innovative approaches to some Internet challenges, raising the potential for GCHQ to make use of this company in the protocol development arena," the report said.

There was similar analysis of the intelligence agencies in Spain, Sweden and the Netherlands, with Spain's CNI praised for its ties with an unnamed British telecommunications firm and Sweden's FRA congratulated over a law passed in 2008 that widened surveillance powers.

Asked about the Guardian's report, Sweden's National Defense Radio Establishment (FRA) said it was natural that it had contacts with similar organizations in other countries.

FRA spokesman Fredrik Wallin said cooperation with foreign intelligence services could include exchanges of intelligence reports. He declined to comment on specific countries but said all activities were strictly controlled by Swedish law.

"There is a clear legal framework which determines how we cooperate with other countries," he said.

Additional reporting by Andreas Rinke in Berlin.

sky otter

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Re: they know what you are doing
« Reply #363 on: November 03, 2013, 08:27:03 AM »

this is 7 pages long..only page one here..go to link for the rest..interesting stuff

(At the agency’s request, The Times is withholding some details that officials said could compromise intelligence operations.)

No Morsel Too Minuscule for All-Consuming N.S.A.

Published: November 2, 2013

When Ban Ki-moon, the United Nations secretary general, sat down with President Obama at the White House in April to discuss Syrian chemical weapons, Israeli-Palestinian peace talks and climate change, it was a cordial, routine exchange.

The National Security Agency nonetheless went to work in advance and intercepted Mr. Ban’s talking points for the meeting, a feat the agency later reported as an “operational highlight” in a weekly internal brag sheet. It is hard to imagine what edge this could have given Mr. Obama in a friendly chat, if he even saw the N.S.A.’s modest scoop. (The White House won’t say.)

But it was emblematic of an agency that for decades has operated on the principle that any eavesdropping that can be done on a foreign target of any conceivable interest — now or in the future — should be done. After all, American intelligence officials reasoned, who’s going to find out?

From thousands of classified documents, the National Security Agency emerges as an electronic omnivore of staggering capabilities, eavesdropping and hacking its way around the world to strip governments and other targets of their secrets, all the while enforcing the utmost secrecy about its own operations. It spies routinely on friends as well as foes, as has become obvious in recent weeks; the agency’s official mission list includes using its surveillance powers to achieve “diplomatic advantage” over such allies as France and Germany and “economic advantage” over Japan and Brazil, among other countries.

Mr. Obama found himself in September standing uncomfortably beside the president of Brazil, Dilma Rousseff, who was furious at being named as a target of N.S.A. eavesdropping. Since then, there has been a parade of such protests, from the European Union, Mexico, France, Germany and Spain. Chagrined American officials joke that soon there will be complaints from foreign leaders feeling slighted because the agency had not targeted them.

James R. Clapper Jr., the director of national intelligence, has repeatedly dismissed such objections as brazen hypocrisy from countries that do their own share of spying. But in a recent interview, he acknowledged that the scale of eavesdropping by the N.S.A., with 35,000 workers and $10.8 billion a year, sets it apart. “There’s no question that from a capability standpoint we probably dwarf everybody on the planet, just about, with perhaps the exception of Russia and China,” he said.

Since Edward J. Snowden began releasing the agency’s documents in June, the unrelenting stream of disclosures has opened the most extended debate on the agency’s mission since its creation in 1952. The scrutiny has ignited a crisis of purpose and legitimacy for the N.S.A., the nation’s largest intelligence agency, and the White House has ordered a review of both its domestic and its foreign intelligence collection. While much of the focus has been on whether the agency violates Americans’ privacy, an issue under examination by Congress and two review panels, the anger expressed around the world about American surveillance has prompted far broader questions.

If secrecy can no longer be taken for granted, when does the political risk of eavesdropping overseas outweigh its intelligence benefits? Should foreign citizens, many of whom now rely on American companies for email and Internet services, have any privacy protections from the N.S.A.? Will the American Internet giants’ collaboration with the agency, voluntary or otherwise, damage them in international markets? And are the agency’s clandestine efforts to weaken encryption making the Internet less secure for everyone?

Matthew M. Aid, an intelligence historian and author of a 2009 book on the N.S.A., said there is no precedent for the hostile questions coming at the agency from all directions.

“From N.S.A.’s point of view, it’s a disaster,” Mr. Aid said. “Every new disclosure reinforces the notion that the agency needs to be reined in. There are political consequences, and there will be operational consequences.”

A review of classified agency documents obtained by Mr. Snowden and shared with The New York Times by The Guardian, offers a rich sampling of the agency’s global operations and culture. (At the agency’s request, The Times is withholding some details that officials said could compromise intelligence operations.) The N.S.A. seems to be listening everywhere in the world, gathering every stray electron that might add, however minutely, to the United States government’s knowledge of the world. To some Americans, that may be a comfort. To others, and to people overseas, that may suggest an agency out of control.

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4 5 6 7 Next Page »
A version of this article appears in print on November 3, 2013, on page A1 of the New York edition with the headline: No Morsel Too Minuscule For All-Consuming N.S.A..

sky otter

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Re: they know what you are doing
« Reply #364 on: November 04, 2013, 10:04:46 PM »
yeah yeah.. the u s is the bad guy and the only one spying..what a crock

Brazil Spied On Embassy Personnel

By BRADLEY BROOKS 11/04/13 02:36 PM ET EST 

RIO DE JANEIRO -- RIO DE JANEIRO (AP) — The Brazilian government confirmed Monday that its intelligence service targeted U.S., Russian, Iranian and Iraqi diplomats and property during spy activities carried out about a decade ago in the capital Brasilia.

The relatively low-key surveillance was reported by the Folha de S. Paulo newspaper, based on Brazilian intelligence service documents it obtained from an undisclosed source.

It describes surveillance that pales in comparison to the massive spy programs carried out by the U.S. National Security Agency, efforts detailed in thousands of documents leaked by Edward Snowden.

But the revelation forced the Brazilian government to defend its espionage while remaining the loudest critic of the NSA programs that have aggressively targeted communications in Brazil, including the personal phone and email of President Dilma Rousseff, who cancelled a state visit to Washington in response.

Brazil's Institutional Security Cabinet, which oversees the Abin intelligence service, said in an emailed statement that all the operations cited in the Folha report "follow Brazilian law for the protection of national interests."

The statement added that Abin "develops intelligence activities for the defense" of Brazil and for "national sovereignty, in strict observance of constitutional principles and the laws that guarantee individual rights."

Rousseff has said that the NSA program, which has swept up data on billions of telephone calls and emails flowing through Brazil, is a violation of individual human rights. Brazil has been targeted in part because it serves as an important transit point for trans-Atlantic fiber optic cables carrying much of the globe's traffic.

Last week, Brazil joined Germany in asking the United Nations General Assembly to adopt a resolution calling on all countries to protect the right to privacy guaranteed under international law. The draft emphasizes that illegal surveillance and interception of communications as well as the illegal collection of personal data "constitute a highly intrusive act that violates the right to privacy and freedom of expression and may threaten the foundations of a democratic society."

In Monday's statement, Brazil's Institutional Security Cabinet said it planned to prosecute anyone who may have leaked the documents to the Folha newspaper.

According to daily, Brazil's intelligence service monitored office space rented by the U.S. Embassy in Brasilia, suspecting it of harboring spy equipment. The report said Abin had concluded that the offices held "communications equipment."

"Functioning daily with the doors closed and the lights turned off, and with nobody in the locale," is how the Abin report described the rented U.S. property, according to Folha. "The office is sporadically visited by someone from the embassy."

Dean Cheves, the spokesman for the U.S. Embassy in Brazil, wouldn't comment on Abin's surveillance of the office space. But he said the office served as a relay station for walkie-talkie radios carried by embassy personnel, who carry the radios as back up communications for emergencies or in case cellphone service goes down.

The Folha report detailed at least 10 intelligence operations carried out in Brasilia in 2003-04, just as former President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva was settling into office.

Other targets included diplomats from the Russian, Iranian and Iraqi embassies, who were followed and photographed as they came and went from embassies and official residences.

In particular, Abin was interested in Russian officials involved in negotiating arms deals in Brazil, and followed Iran's ambassador to Cuba as he visited Brazil.


Associated Press writer Jenny Barchfield contributed to this report.

sky otter

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Re: they know what you are doing
« Reply #365 on: November 05, 2013, 09:33:13 PM »
wow ..just imagine..all the time and effort into this...sigh

5 November 2013 Last updated at 11:32 ET

Germany calls in British ambassador over spy claims

The British ambassador in Berlin has been called in to Germany's foreign ministry to respond to spying allegations.

The UK's Independent newspaper says the British embassy in Berlin may house a "top-secret listening post".

It cites leaked US National Security Agency (NSA) documents suggesting the UK could be using hi-tech equipment housed on the embassy roof.

Any such activity would be against international law, Berlin says.

A spokesman for David Cameron said the prime minister had not spoken to Chancellor Angela Merkel about the spying allegations and there were no plans for a conversation, although their relationship was "excellent".

He refused to comment on security issues but said Britain's intelligence services operated under a "strong and clear legal framework".

German Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle had requested the attendance of UK ambassador Simon McDonald to respond to the claims, a ministry spokesman said.

"The head of the European department asked for a response to current reports in the British media, and pointed out that the interception of communications from the premises of a diplomatic mission would be behaviour contrary to international law," he said.

The Independent report, published on Tuesday, was based on NSA documents leaked by US whistleblower Edward Snowden.

The report said the NSA documents, in conjunction with aerial photographs and information about past spying activities in Germany, suggest that Britain is operating a covert listening station close to the Bundestag, Germany's parliament, and Chancellor Angela Merkel's offices.

Aerial photographs of the embassy in Berlin show a white, tent-like structure, which the newspaper says has been in place since the embassy was opened in 2000.

Equipment within the unit "would be capable of intercepting mobile phone calls, wi-fi data and long-distance communications across the German capital," the Independent reported.

It follows revelations that the US has listened to mobile phone calls made by Mrs Merkel since 2002.

The row has led to a serious diplomatic crisis between the two countries.


NSA leaks helping India become 'Big Brother' state?

While the US and Britain fend off accusations of Big Brother-style spying, other countries are learning lessons from fugitive ex-US intelligence contractor Edward Snowden's leaks and, critics say, developing the same kind of mass-surveillance.

India is one of those in the frame.

Its authorities are bringing in new measures against foreign cyber-snooping, including a plan to move internet traffic inside its borders and banning officials from using Gmail and other external email services.

Simultaneously, campaigners say the Indian government is loosening controls on electronic snooping by its own spies.

It is also stepping up efforts to build its own mass-surveillance system, which critics have dubbed "India's PRISM" - a reference to one of the US spy programmes revealed by Mr Snowden.

This is the downside of Mr Snowden's leaks, says Sunil Abraham of the Centre for Internet and Society, an Indian advocacy group.

"Governments like India are now cherry-picking the worst practices, in a race for the bottom in terms of human rights".

Documents released by Mr Snowden to journalist Glenn Greenwald showed America's National Security Agency (NSA) was hoovering up billions of chunks of Indian data, making the country its fifth most important target worldwide.

'Not actually snooping'
But unlike other states that have discovered the US is siphoning off their secrets, India has conspicuously avoided joining the chorus of criticism. That may be because it doesn't want to draw attention to its own activities.

Its foreign minister Salman Khurshid even appeared to excuse American monitoring, saying it "was not actually snooping".

When the German chancellor Angela Merkel erupted over reports the NSA had been bugging her mobile phone, the Indian prime minister's office was untroubled by the possibility he too had been targeted.


1 November 2013 Last updated at 03:13 ET

Australia ambassador summoned amid Asia US spying reports

Indonesia has summoned Australia's ambassador amid reports that Australian embassies have been used as part of a US-led spying network in Asia.

The Sydney Morning Herald (SMH) reported that diplomatic posts in Asia were being used to intercept phone calls and data.

China has also demanded an explanation from the US over the allegations.

The reports were based on a US National Security Agency document leaked by whistleblower Edward Snowden.

The document, which was originally published by German newspaper Der Spiegel, describes a signals intelligence programme called Stateroom which involves the interception of radio, telecommunications and internet traffic using equipment in US, British, Australian and Canadian diplomatic missions.

Diplomatic posts involved included those in Jakarta, Bangkok, Hanoi, Beijing and Kuala Lumpur, amongst others, SMH said on Thursday.

A former Australian intelligence officer, who was not named, told SMH that the Australian embassies in Jakarta and Bali were used to collect signals.

In a statement, Indonesian Foreign Minister Marty Natalegawa said: "[The government] cannot accept and strongly protests the news of the existence of wiretapping facilities at the US embassy in Jakarta."

"If confirmed, such action is not only a breach of security, but also a serious breach of diplomatic norms and ethics."

"The reported activities absolutely do not reflect the spirit of a close and friendly relationship between the two neighbours and are considered unacceptable by the government of Indonesia," the foreign ministry added in a statement.

Australian ambassador Greg Moriarty was summoned to the foreign ministry on Friday.

He described the talks, which reportedly took less than half an hour, as "a good meeting".

Australia and Indonesia are key allies and trading partners. Australia requires Indonesia's co-operation on the asylum issue, as many asylum seekers travel via Indonesia to Australia by boat.

Meanwhile, Chinese foreign ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying said Beijing was "extremely concerned" about the report.

"[China] demands that the US offer a clarification and explanation," she said. "We demand that foreign embassies in China and their staff respect the Vienna Convention."

Malaysia's foreign ministry, in a statement, said it had sought clarification on the issue from the US envoy in Kuala Lumpur, adding that Malaysia's "security and sovereignty" remained the priority.

Australia's Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade declined to comment on the reports. Prime Minister Tony Abbott said: "Every Australian governmental agency, every Australian official... operates in accordance with the law."

The reports are the latest in a series of documents leaked by ex-US intelligence contractor Edward Snowden, who has been granted temporary asylum in Russia and is wanted in the US in connection with the unauthorised disclosures.

The US is facing growing anger over reports it spied on its allies abroad.

However, correspondents say that in reality most governments conduct surveillance or espionage operations against other countries whose activities matter to them.

sky otter

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Re: they know what you are doing
« Reply #366 on: November 06, 2013, 08:03:34 PM »

spying  is not new..hummmmmmmmmm  :P
NSA Spying Sparks Calls For New Senate Church Committee

Posted: 11/06/2013 7:02 pm EST
Matt Sledge

Four decades ago, a special Senate committee exposed what was then the worst of domestic surveillance abuses by the FBI, CIA and National Security Agency, from spying on left-wing counterculture groups to collecting every cable message entering the United States.

The Church Committee, named for Chairman Frank Church (D-Idaho), spawned headlines that still sound fresh today. One, from The New York Times in 1975, read: "National Security Agency Reported Eavesdropping On Most Private Cables; Pentagon Unit Is Said to Use Computers to Sort Out Intelligence Data From Messages; Legality Is Debated."

Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) last month called for a new Senate select committee to investigate the NSA. The Electronic Frontier Foundation, battling the Obama administration in court for more transparency around the NSA's actions, has called for a new Church Committee.

Now, a former senator who sat on that legendary committee and a former staff member -- members of a fraternity who see themselves as keepers of the flame in preventing government surveillance abuses -- have spoken to HuffPost about the idea.

"It does make sense," said Loch Johnson, who was Church's top staffer on the committee in 1975. "To quote Harry Truman, the government needs a house-cleaning every now and then." Church died in 1984.

Former Vice President Walter Mondale (D), who sat on the old Church Committee as a senator, said he also believes a new Church Committee is needed. Neither he nor Johnson seemed satisfied with the work of today's Senate and House intelligence committees, which are supposed to provide oversight to the spy agencies' classified work.

The revelations that the NSA had spied on German Chancellor Angela Merkel seemed to go one step too far for Senate Intelligence Committee chair Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.). She has begun what she calls a "major review" of the NSA's operations. Before that revelation, Feinstein was one of the agency's staunchest defenders in Congress, asserting that activities like scooping up records of every American phone call are necessary to prevent terrorism.

"These committees are under tremendous pressure to work with the agencies," Mondale said at a Georgetown University event in September. "But the committee has a unique and different function, in addition to working with the agencies, to keep the Congress informed and, if necessary, the public … and I'm not comfortable that that part of the committee's work is being pursued."

Another Church Committee member -- former Sen. Gary Hart (D-Colo.) -- told HuffPost he did not think much of McCain's call for a new select committee.

"It seems to me that Senator McCain is in a way scoring political points here," Hart said. "He's poking the Senate Intelligence Committee in the eye.

"If established committees are not doing there job for whatever reason … you don't layer on top another committee, that is to compound the problems of congressional oversight," Hart said. Instead, he suggested reforms like "reconstituting" the committees with new members and imposing term limits on committee memberships to prevent so-called agency capture.

So far, said Trevor Timm of the Electronic Frontier Foundation, there has been little momentum in Congress for a new Church Committee.

"Unfortunately, we haven't seen much legislative movement," Timm wrote in an email to HuffPost. "Better late than never though, and it seems with each revelation more and more are calling for one."

Hart said he believes that instead of a new committee, it is time for President Barack Obama to rebuild the President's Intelligence Advisory Board, which is supposed to act as an independent advisory body within the White House. That board has just four members today, down from 14 in 2012.

Obama has set up a special review panel to look into the NSA revelations. But critics charge it is stocked with administration loyalists.

For Johnson, that panel's very existence is one more reason to set up a new Church Committee. It would "rivet attention" on NSA practices, and "when Obama's report comes out in December, be prepared to give that a complete scrubbing and critique."

What findings these various committees may come to is still very much uncertain. Months of revelations from former NSA contractor Edward Snowden's files have revealed startling surveillance activities by the NSA. So far, however, concrete examples of domestic surveillance abuses, like those exposed by the Church Committee, have not been forthcoming.

For Hart, comparing Snowden's leaks to the Church Committee's report is "apples and oranges." Hart and Mondale have added their names to an amicus court brief in the American Civil Liberties Union's federal lawsuit against the NSA calling for an end to the bulk collection of American phone call records. But nobody should be surprised, Hart said, that the NSA spies on wireless communications or foreigners.

Johnson, meanwhile, said he just doesn't know -- yet.

"Right know, I'm not sure we know exactly how serious this is, because so much of it is still shrouded in ambiguities and different points of view," Johnson said. "There's a lot to be done here, but it's all within the bailiwick of apparent abuses or overreaches."

Offline Sinny

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Re: they know what you are doing
« Reply #367 on: November 07, 2013, 02:59:34 AM »
I really don't se what the big deal is. As stated, we spy, they spy, we all spy. It's been going on since the beginning of time. And will continue!


The nature of the situation is wrong - however, that's the nature of the situation. 

"The very word "secrecy" is repugnant in a free and open society"- JFK

Offline The Matrix Traveller

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Re: they know what you are doing
« Reply #368 on: November 07, 2013, 03:06:56 AM »
The human species is inherently Paranoid due to the "Double Logic" Algorithms, in our Genome...

So yes this is why we spy on each other... It's primate thingy.....  LOl.

Offline Sinny

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Re: they know what you are doing
« Reply #369 on: November 07, 2013, 03:14:49 AM »
The human species is inherently Paranoid due to the "Double Logic" Algorithms, in our Genome...

Oh, I read what you just said above twice this week. The same is stated within the contact notes of Billy Meier, and the work of Frits Springmeier.

"The very word "secrecy" is repugnant in a free and open society"- JFK

Offline The Matrix Traveller

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Re: they know what you are doing
« Reply #370 on: November 07, 2013, 03:28:03 AM »
Interesting.....  Sorry I've never read their books or work, so I must confess I am ignorant regarding these two.   :)

Offline Sinny

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Re: they know what you are doing
« Reply #371 on: November 09, 2013, 05:40:52 AM »
Interesting.....  Sorry I've never read their books or work, so I must confess I am ignorant regarding these two.   :)

They are relatively knew to me also, I'll return with more info at a later date...However, it does seem like you share the same opinions  :)
"The very word "secrecy" is repugnant in a free and open society"- JFK

sky otter

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Re: they know what you are doing
« Reply #372 on: November 13, 2013, 10:47:42 AM »
this is the bad part:
American writers have even started to self-censor their work,

NSA 'Chilling' Effect Feared By Writers

The Huffington Post  |  By Matt Sledge
Posted: 11/13/2013 11:50 am EST  |  Updated: 11/13/2013 12:06 pm EST

American writers are increasingly fearful of government surveillance in the wake of Edward Snowden's revelations about the National Security Agency and have even started to self-censor their work, a survey released by the writers' group PEN on Tuesday found.

Eighty-five percent of PEN's American members are worried about government surveillance, the group's report found. PEN is best known for standing up for the rights of writers internationally, championing imprisoned Nigerian playwright Wole Soyinka in the 1960s and Salman Rushdie when he was threatened with death for his book The Satanic Verses.

"We have long known that aggressive surveillance regimes in places like the Soviet Bloc, China, Iran, and elsewhere have cramped discourse and narrowed the flow of information and ideas," Suzanne Nossel, executive director of PEN American Center, said in a statement. "Recently disclosed U.S. surveillance practices are having a tangible and chilling effect on writers here at home."

Twenty-eight percent of PEN's members have curbed their social media use, 24 percent are avoiding certain topics in phone and email conversations, and 16 percent have avoided writing or speaking about issues, the survey found.

Now those concerns are coming home to America, PEN said. The report said writers are well aware of the NSA's surveillance practices like logging records of every American phone call and accessing the servers of major internet companies. Many now assume the government is listening in at will.

Writers reported being fearful about discussing military affairs, the Middle East North Africa region, mass incarceration, drug policies, pornography, the Occupy movement, the study of certain languages, and criticism of the U.S. government.

Offline ArMaP

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Re: they know what you are doing
« Reply #373 on: November 13, 2013, 04:32:49 PM »
I always thought that there was too much self-censoring in the US, now things get even worse. :(

Offline burntheships

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Re: they know what you are doing
« Reply #374 on: November 14, 2013, 08:48:40 AM »
Well, this one is really bad, now its "Buy a book, expect to
be investigated".

Holy cow batman!

Americans' Personal Data Shared With CIA,
 IRS In Security Investigation: 

WASHINGTON — U.S. agencies collected and shared the personal information of thousands of Americans in an attempt to root out untrustworthy federal workers that ended up scrutinizing people who had no direct ties to the U.S. government and simply had purchased certain books.

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[February 20, 2018, 01:52:22 PM]

Re: The Question We Should Be Asking by space otter
[February 20, 2018, 07:11:59 AM]

Re: The Question We Should Be Asking by Eighthman
[February 20, 2018, 05:53:51 AM]

Re: The Question We Should Be Asking by ArMaP
[February 19, 2018, 06:54:51 PM]

Re: The Question We Should Be Asking by robomont
[February 19, 2018, 06:28:01 PM]

Re: The Question We Should Be Asking by ArMaP
[February 19, 2018, 05:44:09 PM]

Re: The Question We Should Be Asking by robomont
[February 19, 2018, 03:28:14 PM]

Re: The Question We Should Be Asking by ArMaP
[February 19, 2018, 03:05:34 PM]

Re: The Question We Should Be Asking by robomont
[February 19, 2018, 02:35:45 PM]