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Author Topic: they know what you are doing  (Read 126348 times)

Offline Gigas

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Re: they know what you are doing
« Reply #45 on: June 10, 2013, 10:48:33 AM »
I did. :)

For some reason, I was thinking about wi-fi as used by the computer, so I wasn't seeing how it could be used to know where the user is.

Thinking from the wi-fi router point of view it makes sense. :)

The router is sending a signal out in a omni directional circle, bouncing off things, absorbed by things and reflecting that signal as well as receiving. An external receiver picks that signal up and that receiver broadcast as well. Software can detect fluctuation variations in that wi-fi signal to draw a pattern reflected back onto the router first giving an image of how the signal returns and if that return signal is changing as a person moves about, it can graph that movement.

Reading wi-fi specs one will see how that signal is affected by walls and people moving around. By software calculations, it should be rather easy to map a location and track movement within from the wi-fi signal variations.
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Offline ArMaP

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Re: they know what you are doing
« Reply #46 on: June 10, 2013, 11:09:13 AM »
The funny thing about all this spying in my mind is that the MORE they snoop and learn, the MORE paranoid they get.
The problem is that the more paranoid they get, the more they want to know.

Offline Gigas

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Re: they know what you are doing
« Reply #47 on: June 10, 2013, 11:12:32 AM »
One time back 2002 Mr president bush jr paid a visit to our community and cops were told to stay off their cellphones because it was being monitored during the event. The cops were also given a document of the routing Mr President would be rollin. The cops were told if you loose this paper or give it out, you will be arrested for treason and go bye bye.

The little people were warned to stay away from the motorcade route and do not stand out by the road as it passed. Couple a people felt they had the right to stand out there and they said the motorcade came by and the SS had machine guns sticking out the windows.

One off duty cop wanted to see the action and hustled over to the cop shop where the prez was heading to doing his business and a gunship chopper came over the cop shop, reported the guy arriving and there was debate whether they were going to blow this stupid cop off the planet. Lucky for this guy, they stood down but the ground SS rushed in and got him.

So, they are listening to cell traffic and can shut it down if they need to cause they know what your doing.
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Offline ArMaP

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Re: they know what you are doing
« Reply #48 on: June 10, 2013, 11:13:45 AM »
The router is sending a signal out in a omni directional circle, bouncing off things, absorbed by things and reflecting that signal as well as receiving. An external receiver picks that signal up and that receiver broadcast as well. Software can detect fluctuation variations in that wi-fi signal to draw a pattern reflected back onto the router first giving an image of how the signal returns and if that return signal is changing as a person moves about, it can graph that movement.

Reading wi-fi specs one will see how that signal is affected by walls and people moving around. By software calculations, it should be rather easy to map a location and track movement within from the wi-fi signal variations.
Better late than never, you just had to post that before instead of telling me to Google something. :)

Thanks anyway. :)

Offline ArMaP

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Re: they know what you are doing
« Reply #49 on: June 10, 2013, 11:15:32 AM »
So, they are listening to cell traffic and can shut it down if they need to cause they know what your doing.
Cell phones must be the most controlled thing on the planet, I'm glad I don't have one. :)

Offline Elvis Hendrix

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Re: they know what you are doing
« Reply #50 on: June 10, 2013, 11:19:47 AM »
So you've never played Angry Birds?
"Today, a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration – that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. There's no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we're the imagination of ourselves. Here's Tom with the weather."
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Offline Gigas

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Re: they know what you are doing
« Reply #51 on: June 10, 2013, 11:32:12 AM »
Better late than never, you just had to post that before instead of telling me to Google something. :)

Thanks anyway. :)


Hey, I'm not easy!

But to clue you in, never come off the line saying "I doubt it". Wise thinkers never fall for that.  ;)














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Offline petrus4

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Re: they know what you are doing
« Reply #52 on: June 10, 2013, 11:40:18 AM »
Cell phones must be the most controlled thing on the planet, I'm glad I don't have one. :)

Same.
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Offline Gigas

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Re: they know what you are doing
« Reply #53 on: June 10, 2013, 11:40:23 AM »
Cell phones must be the most controlled thing on the planet, I'm glad I don't have one. :)


Some intelligence agency had my landline and clearly let me know they monitored my conversations and when they didn't want me talking, they cut the line and disconnected conversations I would be having.

I wanted to shut off my phone and called the phone company. I told them to shut it off and the CS said NO, I can't and will not. The CS said I had to give a password or come into the office. I had been to the office before and paid my phone bill with cash but before they would take the cash, they said I have to show picture ID.

Someone was keeping an eye on me.

As for the landline being shut off, they were told I will not pay for service after the date I called them to shut it off. It was on another month or so before I got a notice they will cut service unless I paid. Since I told the CS girl I will not be paying the bill anymore and to shut it off, they still had some weird idea to keep hooked in.

My landline is cut off now but somebody didn't want it to be off cause they liked to listen to information coming and going.
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Online zorgon

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Re: they know what you are doing
« Reply #54 on: June 10, 2013, 12:14:35 PM »
The BIG QUESTIONS

Okay so  the NSA has been shown that they monitor us..  so why the big deal NOW?  I (and many others) have been saying this for years ever since ECHELON first came out.

2007-8 Cryptome eyeballing the new super computer snoop center at Fort Gordon
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/45jack_files/02archives/Eyeball_NSA_Fort_Gordon.htm

Watching the Watchers Intelligence Gathering New NSA Facility Fort Gordon, Georgia
www.thelivingmoon.com/forum1/index.php?action=post;topic=4534.15;last_msg=61535

Echelon Stations around the world
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/45jack_files/index.html#ECHELON_MOUS

Intelligence Gathering
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/45jack_files/index.html#Intelligence%20Gathering

Documented over 120 (so far) spook agencies
Information Gatherers Page 01 - Pegasus Collection - (Work in Progress)
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/45jack_files/03files/Information_Gatherers_01.html
Information Gatherers Page 02 - Pegasus Collection - (Work in Progress)
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/45jack_files/03files/Information_Gatherers_02.html

Yet now suddenly its like this is a new discovery?

And WHY are the spooks saying thyat this leak now compromises the world intel hunting?


I smell a rat  something is not right here


Online zorgon

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Re: they know what you are doing
« Reply #55 on: June 10, 2013, 12:17:49 PM »
PRISM fallout: Hague says UK citizens have ‘nothing to fear’ from GCHQ surveillance


British Foreign Secretary William Hague (AFP Photo / Abbas Momani)

Quote
Law-abiding citizens need not fear intelligence sharing between the US and UK, Britain’s Foreign Secretary promised. His comments follow reports data gathered in the US-run PRISM program was shared with the Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ).

British Foreign Secretary William Hague affirmed that a “lot of information was shared with the United States,” adding that the two countries shared "an exceptional intelligence sharing relationship."

However, Hague would neither confirm nor deny GCHQ, Britain’s electronic eavesdropping and security agency,  had received information clandestinely obtained via the United States National Security Agency’s (NSA) ‘PRISM’ electronic surveillance program.

The Foreign Secretary is set to appear before the House of Commons to provide a statement on Monday following media reports that since June 2010, GCHQ has had access to PRISM, which grants the NSA a direct line to data stored on the servers of Google, Facebook, Apple, Yahoo and five other tech giants.

GCHQ generated 197 intelligence reports from data obtained via the program last year, allegedly allowing the agency to bypass the legal checks normally required to obtain such information.

The GCHQ was also reportedly given access to so-called “telephony metadata” culled from the telephone records of millions of US customers of Verizon –  one of the largest telecommunication companies in the United States in a separate NSA-run program.

The Foreign Secretary dismissed as “nonsense” claims that GCHQ “are sitting around working out how to circumvent a UK law with another agency.”

Hague continued that any information arriving in the UK from the US is “governed by our laws,” insisting that efforts to thwart terrorism did not endanger civil liberties.   

"If you are a law-abiding citizen of this country ... you'll never be aware of all the things those (intelligence) agencies are doing to stop your identity being stolen or to stop a terrorist blowing you up tomorrow," Reuters cites Hague as saying.

"But if you are a would-be terrorist or the center of a criminal network or a foreign intelligence agency trying to spy on Britain you should be worried because that is what we work on and we are on the whole quite good at it," he continued.

The Foreign Secretary stressed that any intelligence gathering was “authorized, necessary, proportionate and targeted,” adding that he personally signed off on GCHQ intercepts “most days of the week.”


Britain's Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ) in Cheltenham (Reuters)

Quote
However, Business Secretary Vince Cable, speaking on Sky News’ Murnaghan program, said that PRISM may have allowed the government to operate a covert sort of ‘snoopers charter’ by the back door.

Douglas Alexander, the opposition Labour party's spokesman for foreign affairs, expressed his intention to ask Hague in the House of Commons how exactly his department oversees the legal frameworks governing such intelligence gathering operations.   

"It is vital that the Government now reassures people who are rightly concerned about these reports," Alexander said in a statement.

Parliament's Intelligence and Security Committee Committee (ISC) has demanded a report from GCHQ on the matter “and will decide what further action needs to be taken as soon as it receives that information," chairman Malcom Rifkind said.

ISC Committee members are set to discuss the issue with US security officials during a planned visit to Washington on Monday.

Courtesy of the Russian Times

Online zorgon

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Re: they know what you are doing
« Reply #56 on: June 10, 2013, 12:21:53 PM »
Whistleblower hunt: NSA launches criminal inquiry into PRISM leak
Published time: June 09, 2013 13:56



The National Security Agency (NSA) headquarters at Fort Meade, Maryland (AFP Photo)

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The National Security Agency (NSA) has requested a criminal probe to track down those responsible for the leak of the PRISM global internet surveillance program.

The US American intelligence community is reeling over the revelation of the NSA’s massive Internet spy tool PRISM, the most high-profile public leak since WikiLeaks, and is taking action against those who publicized the top-secret program.

Washington has mounted a public defense of its right to monitor and record all personal information that passes through or is stored on the servers of nine leading tech companies through PRISM.

Shawn Turner, a spokesperson for the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, told the AP via email on Saturday that the NSA filed a criminal report with the Justice Department earlier this week over media leaks on PRISM.

US intelligence services are “doing an assessment of the damage that is being done to US national security by the revelation of this information, which is necessarily secret because the United States needs to be able to conduct intelligence activities without those methods being revealed to the world,” US Deputy National Security Adviser Ben Rhodes said.

The investigation, which is “in early stages”, would imply close cooperation between the intelligence community and the Justice Department, Rhodes explained. A joint team of intelligence officers and government attorneys will evaluate the potential damage caused by these “very disturbing leaks of national security information.”


US Deputy National Security Advisor Ben Rhodes (AFP Photo / Mandel Ngan)

Quote
This follows President Barack Obama's public justification on Friday for the NSA’s extensive spying program.  Obama declared the scheme helps to identify “folks who might engage in terrorism.”

“You can’t have 100 per cent security and also then have 100 per cent privacy and zero inconvenience,” Obama said.

Following Obama's statement, Director of National Intelligence James Clapper spoke out Saturday, calling the revelation of the previously top-secret program “reckless.” Clapper stressed that PRISM was authorized by Congress and has been strictly supervised by a secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act Court to avoid the intentional targeting of American citizens.

He said that reports by The Guardian and The Washington Post failed to put the program in context, stressing that PRISM is overseen by a secret court under laws approved by the US Congress.

PRISM is “one of our most important tools for the protection of the nation’s security,” he insisted. “PRISM is not an undisclosed collection or data mining program.”

“It is an internal government computer system to facilitate the government’s statutorily authorized collection of foreign intelligence information from electronic communication service providers under court supervision,” Clapper said without specifying, however, how non-Americans should regard being targeted by PRISM or similar programs created by the US.



Speaking in Palm Springs on Sunday, Deputy National Security Adviser Rhodes pointed out that Americans should understand that the US government “is not listening to anybody's phone calls” or “seeking to read people's electronic communications.” Only if PRISM detects a “nexus to terrorism” will they “pursue a warrant to try to investigate that lead, just as we would in any other intelligence or criminal procedure,” he said.

It remains unclear how the governmental accesses private data. Companies like Google and Facebook cooperating with PRISM vow that they never granted intelligence services “direct access” to their servers, though they may be making a semantic point.

Chris Soghoian, a tech expert and privacy researcher at the American Civil Liberties Union, explained to Foreign Policy that the "direct access" term “connotes a very specific form of access in the IT world: Unrestricted, unfettered access to information stored on servers.” For a system like PRISM, such access is not necessarily required. The same applies to the term “back door,” which describes a secret point of access to a system unknown to the owner.

Both Google and Facebook have not denied their participation in PRISM, saying that they provided “user data to government only in accordance with the law.”



Experts man their stations at the Threat Operations Center inside the National Security Agency (NSA) in suburban Fort Mead, Maryland (AFP Photo)

Quote
The defense of PRISM by top US officials, including President Obama, strongly suggests that the surveillance program will remain in use.

The USA Patriot Act adopted by the George W. Bush administration has made global surveillance and tapping fully legal for US intelligence agencies. However, those who leaked the existence of PRISM may soon be treated similarly to US soldier Bradley Manning, accused of leaking diplomatic cables and the infamous 'Collateral Murder' video to WikiLeaks.

The prosecution for Manning's court martial are seeking life imprisonment on charges of "aiding the enemy," alleging that he intended to harm the US by leaking secrets to its enemies.

Courtesy of the Russian Times

Online zorgon

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Re: they know what you are doing
« Reply #57 on: June 10, 2013, 12:27:04 PM »
Boundless Informant: NSA’s complex tool for classifying global intelligence
Published time: June 09, 2013 01:50



Slide from a classified NSA presentation leaked by the Guardian

Quote
A new batch of classified NSA docs leaked to the media reveals the details of a comprehensive piece of software used by NSA to analyze and evaluate intelligence gathered across the globe as well as data extraction methods.

The top-secret documents released by the Guardian shed light on the National Security Agency’s data-mining tool being used for counting and categorizing metadata gathered and stored in numerous databases around the world.

Known as Boundless Informant, the software provides its operator a graphical insight on how many records were collected for a specific “organizational unit” or country, what type of data was collected and what type of collection was used. The program also allows determining trends in data collection for both strategic and tactical decision making, according to the slides.

One of the slides contains a part of the Informant’s user interface showing a world map with countries color-coded ranging from green to red depending on the amount of records collected there. While Iran, Pakistan and other some other states are predictably “hottest” according to the map, the agency collected almost 3 billion intelligence pieces in the US in March 2013 alone.


The map showing how much data is being collected in different countries across the globe (image from the Guardian)

Quote
The insight on the software being used by the NSA comes amid the agency spokesperson Judith Emmel’s claims that the NSA cannot at the moment determine how many Americans may be accidentally included in its surveillance.

“Current technology simply does not permit us to positively identify all of the persons or locations associated with a given communication,” Emmel said Saturday adding that “it is harder to know the ultimate source or destination, or more particularly the identity of the person represented by the TO:, FROM: or CC: field of an e-mail address or the abstraction of an IP address.”
NSA data sources

Another slide from the internal NSA presentation redacted by the Guardian editors details the data gathering methods used in the NSA global surveillance program.

The first method suggests interception of data from “fiber cables and infrastructure as data flows past” under the FISA Amendments Act (FAA) of 2008, Section 702.

The second distinguished method is data collection “directly from the servers of the US service providers.”


The slide detailing methods of data extraction under the FISA Amendment Act (image from the Guardian)

Quote
The presentation encourages analysts to use both methods for better results.
Google, Facebook negotiated ‘secure portals’ to share data with NSA?

Meanwhile, a report by the New York Times revealed that Internet giants, including Google and Facebook, have been in negotiations with the US security agency over ‘digital rooms’ for sharing the requested data. The companies still insist there is no “back door” for a direct access to user data on their servers.

The Internet companies seem more compliant with the spy agencies than they want to appear to their users, and are cooperating on “behind-the-scenes transactions” of the private information, according to a report that cites anonymous sources “briefed on the negotiations.”

According to the report, Google, Microsoft, Yahoo, Facebook, AOL, Apple and Paltalk have “opened discussions with national security officials about developing technical methods to more efficiently and securely share the personal data of foreign users in response to lawful government requests,” sometimes “changing” their computer systems for this purpose.

These methods included a creation of “separate, secure portals” online, through which the government would conveniently request and acquire data from the companies.


A slide from a classified NSA presentation leaked by the Guardian

Quote
Twitter was the only major Internet company mentioned in the report that allegedly declined to facilitate the data transfer to the NSA in a described way. As opposed to a legitimate FISA request, such a move was considered as not “a legal requirement” by Twitter.

The sources claim the negotiations have been actively going in the recent months, referring to a Silicon Valley visit of the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Martin E. Dempsey. Dempsey is said to have met the executives of Facebook, Microsoft, Google and Intel to secretly discuss their collaboration on the government’s “intelligence-gathering efforts.”
NSA pressured to declassify more PRISM details

In response to the fury over US government’s counterterrorism techniques, Director of National Intelligence James Clapper for the second time in three days revealed some details of the PRISM data-scouring program.

Being one of the “most important tools for the protection of the nation's security” the PRISM is an internal government computer system for collecting “foreign intelligence information from electronic communication service providers under court supervision,” Clapper said.

He also said that PRISM seeks foreign intelligence information concerning foreign targets located outside the US and cannot intentionally target any US citizen or any person known to be in the US. As for “incidentally intercepted” information about a US resident, the dissemination of such data is prohibited unless it is “evidence of a crime”, “indicates” a serious threat, or is needed to “understand foreign intelligence or assess its importance.”

Clapper also stressed that the agency operates with a court authority and that it does not unilaterally obtain information from the servers of US telecoms and Internet giants without their knowledge and a FISA Court judge approval.

Courtesy of the Russian Times

Offline ArMaP

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Re: they know what you are doing
« Reply #58 on: June 10, 2013, 12:28:15 PM »
So you've never played Angry Birds?
Me? No, I have never even seen it, I only know its name.

Offline ArMaP

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Re: they know what you are doing
« Reply #59 on: June 10, 2013, 12:29:28 PM »

Hey, I'm not easy!

But to clue you in, never come off the line saying "I doubt it". Wise thinkers never fall for that.  ;)
That was what I was thinking, so that's what I wrote. Wise or not, that was the truth at the time. :)

 


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