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Author Topic: they know what you are doing  (Read 126374 times)

Offline Ellirium113

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Re: they know what you are doing
« Reply #30 on: June 09, 2013, 04:52:45 PM »
So, do you mean that wi fi equipment acts like a radar system? ???

If that's the case then it would be the wi fi equipment that would be able to detect objects, not other equipments that would be able to detect the wi fi.

Enter: the TWIGHLIGHT ZONE....

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Flipping off your television may gain a whole new meaning thanks to a technology being developed by a team of researchers at the University of Washington. The team, led by Assistant Professor of Computer Science and Engineering Shyam Gollakota, developed a system dubbed WiSee, which uses radio waves from Wi-Fi to sense human body movements and detect command gestures from anywhere within a home or office. The results of the WiSee team's research have been submitted to the ACM's 19th International Conference on Mobile Computing and Networking (Mobicom '13).

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/06/researchers-teach-wi-fi-to-see-identify-gestures/


Offline ArMaP

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Re: they know what you are doing
« Reply #31 on: June 09, 2013, 05:27:14 PM »
Thanks for that, Ellirium113, it's much easier to read something than just go by some vague reference. :)

Offline SarK0Y

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Re: they know what you are doing
« Reply #32 on: June 09, 2013, 05:47:17 PM »
The NSA can record whatever they want, for all the good it will do them.  Unless they have literally human level artificial intelligence, they are never going to have even a quarter of the manpower necessary to audit or process all of it.  Yes, to a certain extent they can already do keyword searching, but that still doesn't make them anywhere near as omniscient as articles like this try and claim.

In a speech Naomi Wolf gave a few years back, she mentioned that under the German Stasi, 10% of the population actually had a Stasi file; for the reason of simple logistics.  Tyrants are always a tiny minority of the population; which in turn means that there are always going to be vastly more people to be spied on, than there are people doing the actual spying.

The reason why I bring up the Naomi Wolf speech, is to emphasise the point that the only way surveillance really works, or can work, is by making people think that the government is omniscient, and sees everything.  It never really does; but what they want to do, more than anything else, is to make people afraid of that idea.  It's the same way they've largely destroyed peer to peer file sharing; they were never able to sue or shut down more than 1% of the people doing it, tops, but the way they managed it was by making you feel that you never knew whether or not you were going to be part of that 1%.

If you really want to help people, I'd reconsider circulating articles like this.  By spreading it around and raising fear and paranoia with it, you're actually playing right into the government's hands.  The main thing they want to do is keep people afraid and feeling powerless; and making the public think that they can know everything we do, before we do it, is one of the most effective ways they can do that.

Wanting to keep people informed is admirable; but before you circulate something which you hope is going to do that, it's worth asking whether or not something is really going to have a constructive effect on someone and help them, or whether it's just going to keep them feeling powerless, depressed, and afraid.  That is ultimately all this sort of information is going to do.

The only reason why the Europeans have been able to throw out Monsanto, and Americans haven't, is not because Americans have less power than people living in Europe; it's rather that they think they have less.

Contemporary America is one of the most politically cowardly populations on the planet, in my observation; and what is even worse, is that more than most other people, Americans also literally worship the instruments of their own political repression.  The President, and the military etc.  The government is not going to stop being a problem, until you literally stop thinking it is one.
Gold, Petrus, Gold :) but(!) it's fair to mention: most goal of efficient SA (special agency) always been to find/study/develop/influence/fake key persons (factors), thereby it minimizes needful resources down to very humble size. however, cia/nsa/dia/.. have liked minimal work w/ maximal budgets, so their efficiency hits bottoms.
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Offline The Matrix Traveller

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Re: they know what you are doing
« Reply #33 on: June 09, 2013, 06:18:33 PM »
WHY is the human species so Paranoid ?

Perhaps it has something to do with the "Double Logic" in the human Genome ?

Does the Gov. know everything ?

NO it knows very, very little about anything, when you consider "The ALL".

If Gov. did know everything, then "Intelligence Services" would NOT be required now would they ?   :)

Such is the Paranoia of the human species.   :(

Offline ArMaP

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Re: they know what you are doing
« Reply #34 on: June 09, 2013, 06:30:46 PM »
Does the Gov. know everything ?
No, the government doesn't know everything, but he doesn't need to.

From my indirect experience with such things, it's done at several levels, from street or city block level up to national level. Each level gathers all the possibly relevant information, analysis it and passes what they think is important to the level immediately above, where the same thing happens.

That way, if you say something to a neighbour that may sound like a menace to the government, that information can be passed through all the levels until you get an unexpected visit.

That was what happened with my father, when someone told the political police that he was reading forbidden books. In that case, when the information reached the responsible of the political police for that town, he thought it was important enough to have the police taking him to the police station to be interrogated. As they found nothing he was only one night on the police station (and they even let my grandmother give him a blanket, as one of the policemen knew her. Never underestimate the power of knowing someone. :) ).

Offline Gigas

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Re: they know what you are doing
« Reply #35 on: June 09, 2013, 06:30:59 PM »
Thanks for that, Ellirium113, it's much easier to read something than just go by some vague reference. :)


See that, Ellirium113 did exactly what I suggested you do. Check it out.
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Offline The Matrix Traveller

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Re: they know what you are doing
« Reply #36 on: June 09, 2013, 06:52:51 PM »

Quote from: The Matrix Traveller on Today at 06:18:33 PM

Quote
Does the Gov. know everything ?
NO it knows very, very little about anything, when you consider "The ALL".


Quote from ArMap

Quote
No, the government doesn't know everything, but he doesn't need to.

From my indirect experience with such things, it's done at several levels, from street or city block level up to national level. Each level gathers all the possibly relevant information, analysis it and passes what they think is important to the level immediately above, where the same thing happens.

That way, if you say something to a neighbour that may sound like a menace to the government, that information can be passed through all the levels until you get an unexpected visit.

Correct !

If this did NOT take place then Anarchy would rule.   :)

Offline robomont

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Re: they know what you are doing
« Reply #37 on: June 09, 2013, 08:09:06 PM »
ive heard the fear mongering of anarchy .what we really fear is chaos not anarchy.we already have chaos in government.anarchy would be a blessing.
at least with anarchy we have an understanding .
ive never been much for rules.
being me has its priviledges.

Dumbledore

Offline ArMaP

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Re: they know what you are doing
« Reply #38 on: June 10, 2013, 05:50:18 AM »

See that, Ellirium113 did exactly what I suggested you do. Check it out.
I did. :)

For some reason, I was thinking about wi-fi as used by the computer, so I wasn't seeing how it could be used to know where the user is.

Thinking from the wi-fi router point of view it makes sense. :)

Offline Ellirium113

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Re: they know what you are doing
« Reply #39 on: June 10, 2013, 07:17:22 AM »
 :P I strive to always have a reference handy because I didn't want to get into a habit of blurting out stuff if I can't produce anything to back it up.

sky otter

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Re: they know what you are doing
« Reply #40 on: June 10, 2013, 07:32:51 AM »


anyway

if this happening has the result of cancelling the patriot act..or limiting it's scope
it will be a very good thing
letting folks know what their apathy has led to is not doom and gloom

and as with everything that comes into your view..you have the choice to read or not read..to focus on to not focus on.. to move towards or away from..or to ignore having a choice
every tiny piece of everything presents you with a choice....

sadly, with some individuals the choice is to voice a bitching opinion and never do anything but  ~ that especially if it involves folks in other places



You remember the Patriot Act. We had to strip away our rights as guaranteed under the Fourth Amendment to the Constitution to preserve our rights … whaaa? It was reminiscent of the Vietnam War “logic” first uttered by an un-named Army major to Associated Press Reporter Peter Arnett in 1968: “It became necessary to destroy the town to save it.”

The Fourth Amendment in our Bill of Rights: “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”
http://baltimorepostexaminer.com/patriot-act-is-the-most-bipartisan-legislation-in-12-years/2013/06/10

Offline ArMaP

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Re: they know what you are doing
« Reply #41 on: June 10, 2013, 07:45:34 AM »
The Fourth Amendment in our Bill of Rights: “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.” [/color] http://baltimorepostexaminer.com/patriot-act-is-the-most-bipartisan-legislation-in-12-years/2013/06/10
I guess it depends on the definition of "unreasonable", so they just changed what was considered unreasonable.

I don't think this will have any real effect. :(

Offline Ellirium113

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Re: they know what you are doing
« Reply #42 on: June 10, 2013, 07:47:58 AM »
The funny thing about all this spying in my mind is that the MORE they snoop and learn, the MORE paranoid they get.

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Re: they know what you are doing
« Reply #43 on: June 10, 2013, 09:12:32 AM »
I did. :)

For some reason, I was thinking about wi-fi as used by the computer, so I wasn't seeing how it could be used to know where the user is.

Thinking from the wi-fi router point of view it makes sense. :)

Allow me to add some filler here ...

Cell phone and WiFi all operate on radio frequencies .. usually Microwaves .

The radio frequencies are propagated through the Cell Tower grid ... it is a simple matter of trigonometry to deduce the location of any transceiver .. all transceivers WiFi/Cell Phones have unique individual identifiers .. most if not all Wifi/Smart phones also have GPS built-in on chip .. you may be aware of the ability and get to use it ..like GPS Smart phones or it may be there as a (redundant) component.

You should all be aware that location systems are now on-chip and in all communication electronics .. chips are now manufactured at 45 nm / 32 nm and 22 nm ....

What once filled a whole warehouse .. can now be manufactured onto a chip as small as a grain of sand .. think about that and related electronic systems .. Radar/Microwaves/Television/Credit Cards/Passports.

Also keep in mind the expansion of Silicon memory .. one small chip can now hold several Gigabytes of information.

The Beast has been up and running ever since PC's and electronic Telecoms started to progress in the 80's.

The key is the Cell Tower grid .. If you are anywhere near the Cell Matrix it can be used to track, listen and watch you.

If that fails you can still be tracked by Satellite ... GPS remember... and if a Satellite can lock on to your phone for location purposes you should be aware that it's not to difficult for it to access all the other systems present on that phone or device.

Most people are blissfully unaware of just how many systems now exist on their Smart devices .. because access is denied with the exception of GPS.

Think of Iphone apps .. for example .. a G-meter / a Compass / a protractor ... all infer an electronic gyro built into your phone .. just one system present on-chip in your phone .. think of the possibilities .. and know that somebody else has already thought of it and integrated it.

C.. 

Offline Amaterasu

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Re: they know what you are doing
« Reply #44 on: June 10, 2013, 10:25:55 AM »
In re: Snowden, Jon Rappaport has an interesting column piece:

http://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2013/06/10/nsa-leaker-are-there-serious-cracks-in-ed-snowdens-story/

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New post on Jon Rappoport's Blog   
   
   
NSA leaker: are there serious cracks in Ed Snowden’s story?
by Jon Rappoport

NSA leaker: are there serious cracks in Ed Snowden's story?

 

By Jon Rappoport

June 10, 2013

www.nomorefakenews.com

 

First, I'm not doubting the documents Ed Snowden has brought forward. I'm not doubting the illegal reach of the NSA in spying on Americans and the world.

 

But as to how this recent revelation happened, and whether Ed Snowden's history holds up...I have questions.

 

Could Snowden have been given extraordinary access to classified info as part of a larger scheme? Could he be a) an honest man and yet b) a guy who was set up to do what he's doing now?

 

If b) is true, then Snowden fits the bill perfectly. He wants to do what he's doing. He isn't lying about that. He means what he says.

 

Okay. Let's look at his history as reported by The Guardian.

 

In 2003, at age 19, without a high school diploma, Snowden enlists in the Army. He begins a training program to join the Special Forces. The sequence here is fuzzy. At what point after enlistment can a new soldier start this training program? Does he need to demonstrate some exceptional ability before Special Forces puts him in that program?

 

Snowden breaks both legs in a training exercise. He's discharged from the Army. Is that automatic? How about healing and then resuming Army service? Just asking.

 

If he was accepted in the Special Forces training program because he had special computer skills, then why discharge him simply because he broke both legs?

 

Circa 2003 (?), Snowden gets a job as a security guard for an NSA facility at the University of Maryland. He specifically wanted to work for NSA? It was just a generic job opening he found out about?

 

Also in 2003 (?), Snowden shifts jobs. He's now in the CIA, in IT. He has no high school diploma. He's a young computer genius?

 

In 2007, Snowden is sent to Geneva. He's only 23 years old. The CIA gives him diplomatic cover there. He's put in charge of maintaining computer-network security. Major job. Obviously, he has access to a very wide range of classified documents. Sound a little odd? Again, just asking. He's just a kid. Maybe he has his GED by now. Otherwise, he still doesn't have a high school diploma.

 

Snowden says that during this period, in Geneva, one of the incidents that really sours him on the CIA is the “turning of a Swiss banker.” One night, CIA guys get a banker drunk, encourage him to drive home, the banker gets busted, the CIA guys help him out, then with that bond formed, they eventually get the banker to reveal deep banking secrets to the Agency.

 

Snowden is this naïve? He doesn't know by now that the CIA does this sort of thing all the time? He's shocked? He “didn't sign up for this?”

 

In 2009, Snowden leaves the CIA. Why? Presumably because he's disillusioned. It should noted here that Snowden claimed he could do very heavy damage to the entire US intelligence community in 2008, but decided to wait because he thought Obama, just coming into the presidency, might make good changes.

 

After two years with the CIA in Geneva, Snowden really had the capability to take down the whole US intelligence network, or a major chunk of it? He had that much access to classified data?

 

Anyway, in 2009, Snowden leaves the CIA and goes to work for a private defense contractor. Apparently, by this time, he knows all about the phony US war in Iraq, and yet he chooses to work for a sector that relentlessly promotes such wars. Go figure.

 

This defense contractor (unnamed) assigns him to work at an NSA facility in Japan. Surely, Snowden understands what the NSA is. He knows it's a key part of the whole military-intelligence network, the network he opposes.

 

But he takes the job anyway. Perhaps he's doing it so he can obtain further access to classified data, in advance of blowing a big whistle. Perhaps.

 

Snowden goes on to work for two private defense contractors, Dell and Booze Allen Hamilton. In this latter job, Snowden is again assigned to work at the NSA.

 

He's an outsider, but he claims to have so much sensitive NSA data that he can take down the whole US intelligence network in a single day. Hmm.

 

These are red flags. They raise questions. Serious ones.

 

If The Guardian, which has such close access to Snowden, wants to explore these questions, they might come up with some interesting answers.

 

Again, I'm not doubting that the documents Snowden has brought forward are real. I have to assume they are. I certainly don't doubt the reach and the power and the criminality of the NSA.

 

Although I'm sure someone will write me and say I'm defending the NSA. I'M NOT.

 

But if Snowden was maneuvered, in his career, without his knowing it, to arrive at just this point, then we have a whole new story. We have a story about unknown forces who wanted this exposure to occur.

 

Who would these forces be? I could make lots of guesses. But they would just be guesses.

 

Perhaps all the anomalies in the career of Ed Snowden can be explained with sensible answers. I realize that. But until they are, I put the questions forward. And leave them there.

 

Jon Rappoport
"If the universe is made of mostly Dark Energy...can We use it to run Our cars?"

"If You want peace, take the profit out of war."

 


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