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Author Topic: "Missing" Lunar Orbiter Tapes Found In an Abandoned McDonald's  (Read 20055 times)

Offline RUSSO

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Re: Missing Lunar Orbiter Tapes Found In an Abandoned McDonald's
« Reply #30 on: August 26, 2011, 07:56:20 PM »
Near-Term Satellite, Internet and VOIP Technology Solutions

Dennis Wingo talks about Hurricane Katrina
http://satjournal.tcom.ohiou.edu/issue10/panel2/panel2.html

Article he wrote
Space Tug to NASA's Hubble Space Telescope's Rescue?
http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewsr.html?pid=10083

Here he is listed as....
For further information contact:

Dennis Wingo
Chief Technical Officer
Orbital Recovery Corporation
wingod@orbitalrecovery.com
www.orbitalrecovery.com
« Last Edit: August 30, 2011, 07:53:52 PM by zorgon »
"Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."

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"The slyness when too much, grows, get bigger, turns into a beast and eat the owner."

Offline RUSSO

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Re: Missing Lunar Orbiter Tapes Found In an Abandoned McDonald's
« Reply #31 on: August 26, 2011, 07:57:36 PM »
Quote
reply to post by zorgon

 Its funny how on the one hand he is mad at the exposure and wanting flicker and youtube to remove stuff, then at the same time he is posting all the info himself including personal contact info...

Originally Posted by zelong

It certainly is.

I'm very interested in your Amazing Post. The pic's are Huge enough to see ever thing but it was the Video I used to work out the Make and Model of those Machines again Amazing Technology for back than 1966? Did anyone else feel something wasn't right seeing NO VALVE's.

My research was Not for Debunking rather the Technology of the time what I have gathered so far is the Tape can use 9 sections but only four are used (I don't think audio is one of them, still researching).

I feel at the time Dennis (last name with-held :duh was searching for parts and Knowledge of his babys(Ampex FR-900's) his finding of this Guy

"dkozloski":
Quote from :

Source

    Originally Posted by dkozloski View Post I was off and on in military and industrial electronics for almost 50 years. ........I cut my teeth on FR-600, FR-900, FR-1400 Ampex. Bell&Howell, Mincom, and 3M. We had an RCA RADAR video recorder that had 4 foot diameter tape reels.

would of been Very Exciting to say the least so as to get Full Attention Dennis states :

    I am doing a project at NASA Ames to resurrect two of them to digitize NASA's original master tapes from the lunar orbiter missions to the Moon.

as this old Warhorse could run the damm thing (Ampex FR-900).

Let this be a lesson for us All, if you put your personal info online once it can always be found by any Zelong.

Anyway, Keep up the Good work you put out.

Regards
Zelong.

P.S I will consider my Slate clean.

« Last Edit: August 30, 2011, 08:34:18 PM by zorgon »
"Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."

"It's time to treat people with the same degree of importance they treat you."

"The slyness when too much, grows, get bigger, turns into a beast and eat the owner."

Offline RUSSO

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Re: Missing Lunar Orbiter Tapes Found In an Abandoned McDonald's
« Reply #32 on: August 26, 2011, 07:58:06 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by phage

I guess it depends on how you want to define missing. It appears that all of the Orbiter tapes were in storage until they were moved to Ames for this joint project.

LUNAR ORBITER IMAGE RECOVERY

A cooperative project between NASA Ames, UAH, and Skycorp to refurbish Ampex FR-900 tape drives to digitize original Lunar Orbiter data.

These data exists in lower resolution form at USGS but in 40 years the original high resolution data has not been downloaded.

The LO Recovery effort will begin this summer. Original analog data tapes archived by GSFC/JPL have been transferred to Ames.
Tape drives preserved by a foresighted retiree have been transferred to Ames as well

http://www.lunarbase.rutgers.edu/presentations/Lundquist.ppt - [PDF][Archived]

Don't know the date of the document.

Posted by Zorgon

Well THANK YOU very much for this document

These data exists in lower resolution form at USGS but in 40 years the original high resolution data has not been downloaded.


That's what we have been saying all along... that the LO images available online are in LOWER RESOLUTION

So ONE definition of 'missing" would be not having access to them

But thanks for proving our point that the high res images were NOT available

Quote
    Don't know the date of the document.

File title says 2003


Originally posted by StargateSG7

As a self-described Video Expert (i.e. SAIT CTSR Grad) with 15 years of high-end digital video experience, I am VERY INTERESTED in contributing to the effort of converting these NASA tapes! - I have some expertise with both 1 inch Sony and 2 inch AMPEX/Quad tape formats and am quite familiar with methods such as BAKING older tape so that it can be played back on such machines so the tape oxide doesn't flake off the polyester substrate.

BUT......FOR YOUR INFORMATION ........

I NOW have a much better method to capture the archived NASA tapes and am willing to do so for FREE. I have designed custom multi-processing imaging software that OPTICALLY SCANS (using a microscope & digital HDTV camera) the scanline imprints of each frame that has been recorded on magnetic tape and by using my custom DSP (Digital Signal Processing) algorithms I can recreate the waveforms of the analog broadcast signal by converting the BITMAP SCANS of each analog video frame into either 8-bit greyscale or 24 bit RGB colour image frames which I can then convert into 4:4:4:4 Serial Digital video or 4:2:2 DV format or MPEG2/MPEG4/DVD video at 720 by 480 pixels OR full 1920 by 1080p HDTV.

I just HAPPEN to know the recording head configuration and scanline formatting of BOTH Sony 1" and AMPEX 2"/Quad tape formats so I already have the conversion capability built-into my software.

IN ADDITION, I HAVE MANY, MANY TERABYTES OF DISK SPACE so storage is NOT A PROBLEM!

So if any of you have the contact information for the people involved or the contact information of the photographer, send them this message and MY contact information so they can forward it to the right people and get the ball rolling. I welcome phone calls because I CAN HELP !!!!!

I am willing to convert the tapes GRATIS, AT NO CHARGE, AND THAT MEANS FREE!!!! using my NEW OPTICAL SCANNING METHOD which DOES NOT physically use a playback head to touch the tape... I do it by taking high resolution photos of the tape surface and using software to scan the orientation and patterning of the tape particles so as to find the frame boundaries on a frame-by-frame basis which is then processed to interpret the video scan lines so I then convert to a modern digital video file format.

I can also process out tape-based noise and magnetic particle anomalies to get the CLEANEST possible image!

We can transfer older 35mm slide, Super-8/Regular-8 mm film and 16mm FILM to Video transfers so that I can do too ... although we DO CHARGE for THAT Service!

Send email to or phone me at to discus how I can get the NASA tapes to me for conversion to various digital formats FOR FREE !!!!!!!!:

Henry A. Eckstein
aka ATS User: StargateSG7
Email: henry@comwave.com
Website: www.comwave.com
Phone: 604-253-3990
(If phoning call Monday to Friday, 9 to 5 Pacific Time - i.e. Vancouver, Canada)
« Last Edit: August 31, 2011, 12:06:02 AM by zorgon »
"Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."

"It's time to treat people with the same degree of importance they treat you."

"The slyness when too much, grows, get bigger, turns into a beast and eat the owner."

Offline RUSSO

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Re: Missing Lunar Orbiter Tapes Found In an Abandoned McDonald's
« Reply #33 on: August 26, 2011, 07:58:59 PM »
In other news....

Posted from email.... next step in the process..

Quote
Thank You for the contact information....I will give him a ring tomorrow when I'm back in the office and send him a comprehensive report on what I envisage with my optical scanning and software image processing technique.

Basically what I do is put the magnetic tape reels onto a slow-moving spindle that moves at a few millimetres per second so as to give enough time for a 1024 by 1024 pixel RGB 60 fps digital camera attached to a high-quality optical magnifier to scan the tape by STITCHING multiple photos into a large bitmap that constitutes the frame boundaries of an analog Video waveform. (I can do digitally encoded frames too).  That large bitmap is then scanned using my software using technology similar to Optical Character Recognition (OCR) where I can change the Greyscale/YIQ/YUV/YDbDr scanline information that is likely to be on the NASA tapes into an uncompressed 720 by 480 pixel RGB video frame or to a super-sampled 1920 by 1080 pixel progressive RGB HDTV frame that can then be converted to any modern digital video format that I want.

And I estimate the storage of uncompressed video based upon the number of reels strewn about in the McDonalds photos, to be almost one Petabyte (1000 Terabytes) of data, which is NOT a problem for me, it's just a matter of buying enough extra hard drives to hold it all on a more permanent basis. I've already got almost two petabytes of off-line digital storage so another petabyte ain't gonna hurt me.

The biggest problem is the quality of the original tapes themselves...tape oxide DETERIORATES over time and my biggest worry is it flaking away from the polyester substrate and the only way to fix that is to BAKE the tape in an oven to harden it and then play it ONLY ONCE through my apparatus in order to get a clean optical-scan transfer.

I have NO IDEA as to the current condition of the NASA tapes so I can only speculate as to what needs done thus I would need a sample tape to test the quality of transfer...If the tape itself is good, then the transfer I do will
be equal to the original recording and since I can filter out magnetic tape noise, I might even get close to the quality of the original space-to-ground broadcast.

If some people, who have speculated that the tapes are DIGITALLY ENCODED, are correct, I can ALSO transfer that using my OPTICAL SCAN method and since all I need to know is the width, height and greyscale/colour
format of the pixels, I'll be able to convert the probably PCM-based (Pulse Coded Modulation) picture frames into absolute digital clarity. If it's digital we might be able to get some really AWESOME quality video footage.

Hopefully I can still get a hold of Dennis Wingo to get the ball rolling.

Just so I don't get your hopes up too high, please be aware this might
take a week or more in order to to get replies and talk on the phone.
So don't expect a miracle tomorrow but I will do my best...!!!

You can post this email on ATS or forward to others who are interested
if you want so as to possibly spark some mainstream media interest.

Thanks

Henry A. Eckstein
email: henry@comwave.com
« Last Edit: August 30, 2011, 09:29:26 PM by zorgon »
"Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."

"It's time to treat people with the same degree of importance they treat you."

"The slyness when too much, grows, get bigger, turns into a beast and eat the owner."

Offline RUSSO

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Re: Missing Lunar Orbiter Tapes Found In an Abandoned McDonald's
« Reply #34 on: August 26, 2011, 07:59:52 PM »
Originally posted by StargateSG7

Quote
ATS MEMBER TALKS TO HOLDER OF NASA MOON ORBITER TAPES!

I have personally talked to Dennis Wingo who currently holds a vast archive of 1960's/1970's era moon orbiter video footage via telephone for approximately five minutes at 7:00 pm Pacific Time on September 29, 2008 and he explained to me his exasperation at the MANY websites (including ATS whom he specifically mentioned
by name) that have caused a great disturbance in the Webspace and Blogosphere and that he says has hampered his efforts to bring the archival NASA footage to the public domain.

He explicitly informed me that ALL the tapes will be presented to the NASA archives and therefore WILL be made public domain as soon as he can finish the tape transfer process.

After offering my technical expertise, he informed me that the NASA tapes were stored and maintained very well and are in EXCELLENT condition and that he is FULLY CAPABLE of finishing the transfer process without my or anyone else's help!

His demeanor on the phone was professional and courteous, although he did express his obvious chagrin at the myriad of "Conspiracy Sites" and "Nutcases" that have created a worldwide furore over his efforts. He indicated his displeasure at being hampered by the constant and bothersome interruptions and would prefer that he be allowed to continue his efforts in peace.

Mr. Wingo also states that he has seen NOTHING that would be considered anomalous or "Conspiratorial" within the imagery he has transferred and reiterated
that once the footage is released in it's entirety, those who have the skills can do what they wish with the video data that is to come.

I did NOT ask him about the photos posted on this ATS thread regarding the tapes strewn about in an unverifiably abandoned or shut-down McDonalds and thus I personally cannot make any comment about those photos as to their veracity or content.

In conclusion, I suggest that we wait and see before we rush to judgment and that cooler heads must prevail before "we doth protest too mucheth". So hold your horses and let the guy do his job and only THEN can we comment with a modicum
of certainty or truth!

by
Henry A. Eckstein
aka ATS User: StargateSG7

P.S. For those OTHERS OF YOU who have more sinister or more secretive imagery, please do email me at:

henry@comwave.com

with the Subject line of:
ATTN: ATS Threads - Forensic Evidence Examination

I will then contact you via email or by phone so that I can arrange to have you send me your "Stuff" to my abode via a secured method for further forensic quality examination.

I can accept Windows Bitmap, TIFF, JPEG, PNG, RAW RGB, Photoshop PSD, Corel Photopaint, AVI, Quicktime, WMV, MPEG1/2/4 DVD, VCD, BluRay, Betacam SP, Video-8, Hi-8, 3/4" U-matic, Mini-DV, Hard Drive, 8mm/16mm/35mm/70mm Positive Print film and even more esoteric formats for those of you who wish answers to your most secretive questions.

Quote
Originally posted by zorgon

[Redacted]

There has been an email update... I am suspending the letter writing campaign for the moment until the new information is processed
[edit on 29-9-2008 by zorgon]

Quote
Originally posted by StargateSG7

In conclusion, I suggest that we wait and see before we rush to judgment and that cooler heads must prevail before "we doth protest too mucheth". So hold your horses and let the guy do his job and only THEN can we comment with a modicum of certainty or truth!

 

INTERESTING...

Funny I was just about to post something similar. I retracted the letter writing 'campaign' in light of new information via email and there is an "Anonymous Reply" pending approval...

As soon as I get permission to quote from the email I will share what I can

Seems you are already known to the team Mr Henry A. Eckstein  aka StargateSG7

 ::)

Quote
Originally posted by StargateSG7

His demeanor on the phone was professional and courteous, although he did express his obvious chagrin at the myriad  of "Conspiracy Sites" and "Nutcases" that have created a worldwide furore over his efforts. He indicated his  displeasure at being hampered by the constant and  bothersome interruptions and would prefer that he
be allowed to continue his efforts in peace.

Myriad sites and Worldwide furore?  :o That ought to be good for ATS ratings,  ;D we got that much coverage so quickly?  It was only released a few days ago and already pulled. Maybe he is exaggerating a little? I mean he did post his contact info at Cadilac looking for assistance.

Surely one does not think google is a useless tool? :D

Personally I would be happier if he would simply release a statement that the INTENT is to preserve these tapes for posterity and that the INTENT is to make them available to the taxpayer who paid for them over 40 years ago...

Surely not to much to ask in the interest of peace?

MAKE THEM AVAILABLE TO THE TAXPAYERS
« Last Edit: August 31, 2011, 12:30:17 AM by zorgon »
"Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."

"It's time to treat people with the same degree of importance they treat you."

"The slyness when too much, grows, get bigger, turns into a beast and eat the owner."

Offline RUSSO

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Re: Missing Lunar Orbiter Tapes Found In an Abandoned McDonald's
« Reply #35 on: August 26, 2011, 08:00:19 PM »
The following was the Anonymous Post in pending...

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS

Originally posted by zorgon

    In any case.. the end result, considering who is involved in this 'project' is that they are only interested in making their toy work and I doubt the care a hill of beans about the actual data... And I also doubt any of us will ever see it


Fascinating thread. "...only interested in making their toy work"? Really? Don't care "about the actual data"? Really? It rather beggars belief that you appear to be aware of who is involved in this project, but can make this statement.

What reason might be valid for suggesting that project leader "D" does not care about the actual data? Is this consistent with existing information readily available online? Perhaps the author of a book entitled "Moonrush" - appearing in videos as a strong proponent of mining and colonising the moon, seeking to exploit mineral deposits from asteroid impacts amongst other things - is perfectly happy with the lower resolution photos anyone can access now from the USGS when he draws up his plans for specific landing sites?

Might it occur to you that this project is so extremely valuable because it is geared toward providing the general public with access to a higher resolution of imagery than is currently available, albeit imagery that has been seen before? Being passionate about "toys" such as that tape machine is the only way anyone is going to be able to recover data this is on the brink of being lost forever.

Why anyone would doubt the veracity of the tremendous commitment and hard work being put into archiving this material is completely beyond me - the fact it is being carried out by a dedicated team who obviously have a genuine passion for scientific knowledge, happy to operate in a disused McDonald's, makes it all the more believable, surely?

If there is real doubt that "any of us will ever see it", how sensible is it to post grid co-ords and satellite imagery of the location of the project, suggesting "dropping by" and so on? Could this put eventual general public access to these images in jeopardy, by any chance? After Dr X explained that a "proof of concept" needs to be completed before further funding is secured to complete the project, surely it would be wise to avoid sensationalist claims or encourage site visits, so that this second stage becomes more likely?

At least then, if all images are successfully archived and made available at this higher resolution, people can freely continue to bicker about what certain shapes may represent or what has been doctored.

Dennis I presume? Well thank you for that statement

« Last Edit: August 31, 2011, 12:07:04 AM by zorgon »
"Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."

"It's time to treat people with the same degree of importance they treat you."

"The slyness when too much, grows, get bigger, turns into a beast and eat the owner."

Offline RUSSO

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Re: Missing Lunar Orbiter Tapes Found In an Abandoned McDonald's
« Reply #36 on: August 26, 2011, 08:00:57 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Phage
As the Apollo Knowledge Transfer presentation says; this is a collaborative effort between NASA, Dennis Wingo of Skycorp, Inc, and the University of Alabama at Huntsville. Skycorp has had contracts with NASA since 2005. The contracts have been for; Aeronautics and Space Technology -- Basic Research (R&D), ADP Input/Output and Storage Devices, and Arts/Graphics Services.

Fair enough... but if this is the case... why are they having funding issues?
« Last Edit: August 30, 2011, 11:40:43 PM by zorgon »
"Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."

"It's time to treat people with the same degree of importance they treat you."

"The slyness when too much, grows, get bigger, turns into a beast and eat the owner."

Offline RUSSO

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Re: Missing Lunar Orbiter Tapes Found In an Abandoned McDonald's
« Reply #37 on: August 26, 2011, 08:02:19 PM »
Originally posted by StargateSG7

Regarding my own quote posted earlier:
=====
"His demeanor on the phone was professional and courteous, although he did express his obvious chagrin at the myriad of "Conspiracy Sites" and "Nutcases" that have created a worldwide furore over his efforts. He indicated his displeasure at being hampered by the constant and bothersome interruptions and would prefer that he be allowed to continue his efforts in peace."
=====

I should CAUTION READERS that the words "myriad" and "worldwide furore" are MY OWN words and NOT a direct quote from Mr. Wingo... He indicated that more than one site and more than one person has basically caused him to feel harassed and/or bothered. He did NOT specifically mention an exact number or the names of other sites. The humorous thing was he mentioned ATS specifically WITHOUT ANY prompting from me!

And again I wish to re-iterate that he was courteous and professional on the phone but was obviously ANNOYED at all the attention.

On a secondary point regarding photographic manipulation techniques, MODERN FORENSIC technology would pick up film grain mismatches in older photographs done using the older "analog" methods of airbrushing.

And the painting of pixels and digital manipulation was first demonstrated from what I understand at the precursor to the MIT Media Lab in the mid 1970's within the auspices of a pre-1980's Project Athena networking system and using workstations/minisupers such as the 1970's era DEC PDP 11/Vax 750/Vax 780 and early 1980' era Apollo, Stardent, Convex and other early pix-oriented computer systems.

Lucasfilm begat some SERIOUS pixel magic when some ex-employees spun off into their own companies to create the AVID Video editing system and Photoshop Paint program and then the computer graphics industry that we have today....!!!!

I remember when 1024 by 768 pixels at 256 (i.e. 8-bit) colour was costing us over $80,000 U.S. and Now I'm working at 1920 by 1200 pixels at 64 bit colour and it cost me only $600. I also remember having to lift a 90 lbs monitor onto desks which was no fun for me.... My new 30" monitor is going to be 2500+ by 1600 pixels and
with a lot more horsepower than MANY of those early workstations combined!

I'll throw THIS TIDBIT out there though, I DISTINCTLY remember going to a computer demonstration in 1979 (when I was 9 YEARS OLD!) where a Commodore PET computer was doing full blown colour raster imaging using an unusual black-box add-on that a computer scientist (didn't know what that was at the time) at the demo had said was the most powerful imaging system on Earth and that many important people were using it right now! I do remember the ego-fed demeanor and the obvious pride in those statements but I didn't recognize at the time what it all meant, just that it was important.

EDIT: FURTHER CLARIFICATION:

I should also note that it was NOT the Commodore PET computer that was doing the processing but rather a black-curtained box about the size of an 80 litre (20 gallon) cooler which was manipulating the first ever high-resolution bitmap of an aerial photograph I had ever seen AND it was also drawing vector-based graphics ON TOP of the bitmap.

The Commodore PET computer was used as a front end to input commands and issue instructions to what in later years I realized was a multi-CPU raster processor attached to a high-resolution VERY LARGE ALMOST-SQUARE CRT monitor of unknown make (possibly Evans & Sutherland?).

I should also note that I have found patents that reference ultra high resolution raster scanning displays that were filed as early as 1970 !!!!!

See this link:

Real-time ultra-high resolution image projection display using laser-addressed liquid crystal light valve

Looking back, I remember that the resolution was stated to be 1k+ by 1k+ pixels (i.e. 1000+ by 1000+ pixels) and I have come to realize that at the time, I had probably viewed the world's highest resolution colour computer monitor YEARS BEFORE such displays became common place.

So I am inclined to believe that at least since 1978, we have had raster scanning systems in the white-budget world of AT LEAST 1000 by 1000 pixels and probably DOUBLE THAT within the Black Budget world!

My belief in those memories is bolstered by the fact that 1000+ lines of resolution were being worked on by the Japanese and American television industry as early as 1968 with NHK Japan's analog-based MUSE HDTV system.

Although I cannot remember the specific words or the exact place or time or the name of the computer scientist, I DO remember those particular words "Most Powerful imaging system on Earth" and for some reason I KNEW that this was IMPORTANT and that I needed to PAY ATTENTION!

I personally know of and have SEEN monitor resolutions of greater than 100,000 by 100,000 pixels using multiple MATCHED projection systems fed by distributed-image processing systems so I would NOT be surprised at the advances in imaging technology and I would ALSO NOT be surprised at what could have been possible as early as the late 1960's!

I have also seen a DEMO of one of the FIRST RGB laser projection systems that had an ultra-sharp, very colourful resolution of over 5000 lines at 24-bit colour and was told it could be easily expanded to many MILLIONS of lines if enough frame-buffer memory and bandwidth was available to drive the RGB lasers and this was in 1996!
« Last Edit: August 31, 2011, 01:13:03 AM by zorgon »
"Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."

"It's time to treat people with the same degree of importance they treat you."

"The slyness when too much, grows, get bigger, turns into a beast and eat the owner."

Offline RUSSO

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Re: Missing Lunar Orbiter Tapes Found In an Abandoned McDonald's
« Reply #38 on: August 26, 2011, 08:02:45 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by StargateSG7

And I have read how upset posters on ATS have become as to Mr. Wingo's desires and motivations which to me are NOT that much of an issue whereas MANY of YOU HAVE made it a "Big Deal" and in my opinion have blown his efforts quite out of proportion when a more constructive line would be to OFFER financial help or advanced technical support in a manner that would NOT hinder his personal efforts
or be overly intrusive in his area of expertise.

Um correct me if I am wrong here but was it not you who came charging in here offering your services and intent on contacting Mr Wingo directly? In this post?

ATS POST

I am willing to bet that not one other person in this thread has picked up the phone to talk to him. It also seems you have changed your tune drastically over the last few posts... so much so that I seriously question your motives here...

If I am wrong and anyone else did phone him, u2u me and let me know. I know none of my group did... and I highly doubt the skeptics bothered him... so where is this 'Harassment' you speak of?

You stated earlier that "he express his obvious chagrin at the myriad of "Conspiracy Sites" and "Nutcases" that have created a worldwide furore over his efforts"

Well if he considers us "Nutcases" then perhaps our concerns for these tapes are justified...

I get the impression from my sources that 'sabotaging' the project is more of a concern..

Quote
When a project becomes "Your Baby" it is HIGHLY ANNOYING to have outsiders
stomp all over you or continuously knocking or phoning and otherwise just plain old interfering.

Again sir, it was YOU who went 'stomping' in with your phone call to offer your expertise... we merely posted an interesting story and attempted to get clarification from the photographer...

And again if Dennis did not want people to contact him directly to offer help on the tape machines, posting his own address and phone number on a public forum (Cadilac) is NOT the way to stay anonymous

 ::)

As to fund raising I actually have a solid lead and contact that would possibly be very interested in funding this effort and has the means to do so. This is preliminary at this stage but it IS a serious contact. When and if this becomes solid I will pass it along to the appropriate party...
« Last Edit: August 31, 2011, 12:18:46 AM by zorgon »
"Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."

"It's time to treat people with the same degree of importance they treat you."

"The slyness when too much, grows, get bigger, turns into a beast and eat the owner."

Offline RUSSO

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Re: Missing Lunar Orbiter Tapes Found In an Abandoned McDonald's
« Reply #39 on: August 26, 2011, 08:05:13 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by Matyas
Yes, but we need to ask ourselves if ATS is the best place to do that, hmm?

Well on that note... I just went through several weeks of deciding just that. I even jumped over to Project Avalon/Project Camelot...

Now over there there was an interview by 'Henry Deacon', a supposed ex LLNL employee who is a whistle blower. In the interview he mentions specifically the "Project Looking Glass" at Los Alamos, and reluctantly "Shiva Nova"...

Well both those topics I have already collected a LOT of material on, even posted the actual document on Looking Glass here at ATS, where it ended up in Skunkworks ignored and forgotten

I spent a day putting all the relevant data onto Project Camelot in response to  the interview... the REAL hard data on the projects including the link to the LLNL laser home page (Shiva Nova is a laser capable of creating a small Sun in a chamber :P )

What happened is Henry flipped... called me PSYOPS and all the material and his threads were deleted. 

So much for people wanting the truth.

I guess fuzzy images of rocks and UFO's are okay but don't show the real stuff...

Now in this case here... I was sent the original info by the photographer... He pointed to my site, specifically the Lunar Orbiter pages and sent me the links...

I then wrote him back for more information and to see how to handle this...

No reply... but then the Youtube video was posted... 

Okay so its out on Flicker and Youtube... and it was sent to me with the sender fully aware of what my site is all about and where I post...

Now I get 'knocked' for sensationalism... because I state in the OP "Missing Lunar Orbiter Tapes Found"  People want to play that game... but since these tapes have not been available to the public for 40 years then turn up in such a fashion on the floor of an abandoned McDonalds... I stick by my choice of title.

I have still not heard back from Steve... but I have had mail from another project 'participant'. (in quotes as I don't yet have his official connection, same as Dr X)

(The following is directed at the watchers :P )

Sensationalism?

Who was it that labeled the original Flicker posts "Pirate McDonald's" and "McMoon" ?

Who was it that thought it was funny to put a Pirate Flag in the window?

Who was it that in the opening question/headline of Flicker said...

"We discovered a most unusual covert operation in a McDonalds today… What could it be?"

How about the 'misinformation' part?

Steve said this.... "In this McDonalds, the only copy of that datais about to be resurrected. Erik and I dropped in for a visit after the LUNAR rocket launch at NASA Ames."

If this is indeed the ONLY copy, then how is AU and USGS making their high res versions in the digitization project?

So this whole episode here is bizarre. And finishing the opening flickr statement with this comment..

"And yes, the conspiracy continues, with McDonalds' long and sordid history with the Apollo program..." - Steve

Uh huh right no intent at sensationalism there

 ::)

Quote
98 flags after only 16 pages is a pretty big roar. If everyone here could help get it down to a low rumble it will be very much appreciated by said interested parties.
You know. Run silent, run deep. :)

 


Hmmm perhaps your right...

"Silence is Golden" they say... I am sure it is better for all if this just fades away... back into the shadows. from whence it came...

Methinks I hear Caid calling.... time to get the rust off the armor
« Last Edit: August 30, 2011, 11:59:13 PM by zorgon »
"Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."

"It's time to treat people with the same degree of importance they treat you."

"The slyness when too much, grows, get bigger, turns into a beast and eat the owner."

Offline RUSSO

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Re: Missing Lunar Orbiter Tapes Found In an Abandoned McDonald's
« Reply #40 on: August 26, 2011, 08:06:19 PM »
Now for everyone else who is seriously interested...

Here is one look into the mindset of Dennis Wingo...

I will post this only once... then later have some comments to add from recent emails...


Deliverable Under Contract NNL06AE27P
- [PDF][Archived]

« Last Edit: August 31, 2011, 01:17:47 AM by zorgon »
"Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."

"It's time to treat people with the same degree of importance they treat you."

"The slyness when too much, grows, get bigger, turns into a beast and eat the owner."

Offline RUSSO

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Re: Missing Lunar Orbiter Tapes Found In an Abandoned McDonald's
« Reply #41 on: August 26, 2011, 08:16:24 PM »
Originally posted by Anonymous ATS

Well I can verify part of the chicken coupe story it wasn't a chicken coupe it was a garage in L.A. owned by my family. I helped Steve load those monster machines aprox 4 hours . I took him and his sidekick to pick up the rental trucks. For all my troubles the only thing I asked of him was be careful when they exit the property. I had to go to work and trusted him to be a man of his word. He cashed the wall and took off and like a child, after weeks of his denial at first then admission and promise to pay, he just blew it off. So no chicken coupe, one broken wall, and no regard for anyone. I have pictures (not touched up)
Its an interesting story just not a interesting man
Mike F
« Last Edit: August 31, 2011, 01:23:46 AM by zorgon »
"Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."

"It's time to treat people with the same degree of importance they treat you."

"The slyness when too much, grows, get bigger, turns into a beast and eat the owner."

Offline RUSSO

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Re: Missing Lunar Orbiter Tapes Found In an Abandoned McDonald's
« Reply #42 on: August 26, 2011, 08:18:33 PM »
UPDATE

Found by Zarniwoop...  Seems the Cat is out of the bag :D

NASA Unveils 42-Year-old Historic Lunar Image

NASA Unveils 42-Year-old Historic Lunar Image

PRESS RELEASE
Date Released: Monday, November 10, 2008
Source: Ames Research Center - Comments Comments


MOFFETT FIELD, Calif. - NASA will hold a media briefing at 3 p.m. PST on Thursday, Nov. 13, 2008, to unveil a newly restored historic image from the early days of lunar exploration and discuss the innovative processing technique used to retrieve the image.

The briefing will take place in the Ames Research Center auditorium, Bldg. N-201. NASA officials will be available to discuss the recovery process and the scientific value of the iconic images to the next generation of explorers as NASA plans to return to the moon. A tour of the restoration facility will be offered following the briefing.

Briefing participants are:

- S. Pete Worden, Ames Research Center Director
- Greg Schmidt, Deputy Director, NASA Lunar Science Institute, NASA Ames
- Dennis Wingo, Image Recovery Project Lead, Huntsville, Ala.
- Charles J. Byrne, Lunar Image Expert, Middletown, N.J.

For news media representatives unable to attend, a roundtable discussion will be held following the briefing. Reporters wanting to participate must call Mike Mewhinney at 650-604-3937 by Wednesday, Nov. 12, 2008.

Driving Directions: To reach NASA Ames, take the Moffett Field/NASA Parkway exit off U.S. 101 and drive east on Moffett Boulevard towards the main gate. At the main gate, pull into the small parking lot on your right and enter the Visitor Badge Office to obtain a visitor pass. The auditorium is located directly behind the administration building as you enter the center.

For more information about NASA Ames Research Center, visit:


http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=26900

S. Pete Worden, Ames Research Center Director

Well so Pete Worden is involved now...

Who is Pete Worden?  I did a thread here on his appointment.

Pete Worden: the new guy at Ames



Quote
In 1991, when the Strategic Defense Initiative Organization (SDIO) decided to go ahead with developing a flight demonstration vehicle for a single stage to orbit (SSTO) system, then-Lieutenant Colonel Pete Worden supervised the efforts of Jess Sponable, Bill Gaubatz, and others, which ended up creating the revolutionary DC-X. This program proved, among other things, that one does not need hundreds of millions or billions of dollars to do valuable rocket science. The whole program ended up costing around $80 million. It showed that a reusable rocket with vertical takeoff and landing capability can be developed, and that smart use of existing technology can keep development costs to a minimum.

It also taught Worden something about bureaucratic politics between NASA, Air Force and the rest of the US Government. And, as the saying goes, “he has the scars on his back to prove it”

In 1994, along with Pedro Rustan, he led the innovative and still controversial Clementine Moon probe. This low-cost project, run out of a town house in Alexandria, Virginia, tested sensors for the missile defense program and also found indications, but not hard proof, that there was water ice in the Moon’s polar regions.

http://www.thespacereview.com/article/612/1

So he was involved in the Star Wars program and the director of Clementine Mission...
He is also involved with the "Mars on Earth" Project...

http://www.marsonearth.org/about/tm.html?id=32

And now he is heading up the project on these Lunar Orbiter tapes...

Oh well it was a nice dream...  :(
« Last Edit: August 31, 2011, 01:27:36 AM by zorgon »
"Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."

"It's time to treat people with the same degree of importance they treat you."

"The slyness when too much, grows, get bigger, turns into a beast and eat the owner."

Offline RUSSO

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Re: Missing Lunar Orbiter Tapes Found In an Abandoned McDonald's
« Reply #43 on: August 26, 2011, 08:18:59 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
Well I can verify part of the chicken coupe story it wasn't a chicken coupe it was a garage in L.A. owned by my family.   

Hmmm Seems Spaceref got the drop on us on THIS one... Thanks Zarniwoop for digging it up

The FR-900 drives in Nancy Evan's garage - the first time we saw them in February 2007. Credit: LOIRP/MOONVIEWS.COM



Seems the Chicken coop is only a few feet away..

The FR-900 drives in Nancy Evan's garage had some neighbors living a few feet away. Credit: LOIRP/MOONVIEWS.COM



Interior of one of the FR-900 tape drives before refurbishment began. Credit: LOIRP/MOONVIEWS.COM



Image Collection: From a Garage to NASA

Now it also seems that other people more directly involved also thought the tapes were MISSING  :P

Quote
James Fincannon:

Excellent work! These images have unequaled resolution (so far). I had thought the tapes degraded, lost or destroyed, or at the very least, unreadable due to lost devices to read them. Didn't some of the readers get stolen?


Image Collection: From a Garage to NASA
Here is a sample of the "Increased Resolution"  Image on left original... image on right new scan from tapes



BIG PICTURE

Uh huh I can see the better quality...

So NASA put top dog Gen. Pete Worden in charge of these LO images... I guess we can expect to see LOTS

 ::)

I'm tired... going to bad...
« Last Edit: August 31, 2011, 01:36:10 AM by zorgon »
"Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."

"It's time to treat people with the same degree of importance they treat you."

"The slyness when too much, grows, get bigger, turns into a beast and eat the owner."

Offline RUSSO

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Re: Missing Lunar Orbiter Tapes Found In an Abandoned McDonald's
« Reply #44 on: August 26, 2011, 08:19:30 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Phage
I wasn't really expecting much higher quality than that which we have from USGS. 

Ah well... I was hoping at least to get some of those missing image numbers from USGS :P

But maybe what we need to do is a fund raiser and get our own camera's up there.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2011, 01:37:50 AM by zorgon »
"Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."

"It's time to treat people with the same degree of importance they treat you."

"The slyness when too much, grows, get bigger, turns into a beast and eat the owner."

 


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