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Author Topic: The Plain of Jars - Town Dump for Ancient Giants?  (Read 6897 times)

Offline zorgon

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The Plain of Jars - Town Dump for Ancient Giants?
« on: February 05, 2013, 03:45:41 PM »
The Plain of Jars - Town Dump for Ancient Giants?

Back a few years ago on one rock hunting trip, I stopped at the Eureka, Utah town dump. Lots of old mines in that area to noodle through the tailing. Eureka is mostly a ghost town. The town dump yields old whiskey bottles, medicine bottles and even some old cowboy boots. Most old west towns bottles were used for target practice. In fact most artifacts you find all over the desert have bullet holes, even the entry sign to Tonopah Testing Range :P  But in Eureka the bottles are mostly intact and easy to clean with oxalic acid

Well one of the things in archeology, if your looking for proof of a certain race, look for the town dump :D  But what of GIANTS? Surely if there were giants, they too would leave a town dump?

Well...

Plain of Jars, Phonsavan. Laos








Quote
The Plain of Jars is a megalithic archaeological landscape in Laos. Scattered in the landscape of the Xieng Khouang plateau, Xieng Khouang, Lao PDR, are thousands of megalithic jars. These stone jars appear in clusters, ranging from a single or a few to several hundred jars at lower foothills surrounding the central plain and upland valleys.

The Xieng Khouang Plateau is located at the northern end of the Annamese Cordillera, the principal mountain range of Indochina. Initial research of the Plain of Jars in the early 1930s claimed that the stone jars are associated with prehistoric burial practices. Excavation by Lao and Japanese archaeologists in the intervening years has supported this interpretation with the discovery of human remains, burial goods and ceramics around the stone jars. The Plain of Jars is dated to the Iron Age (500 BCE to 500 CE) and is one of the most fascinating and important sites for studying Southeast Asian prehistory. The Plain of Jars has the potential to shed light on the relationship between increasingly complex societies and megalithic structures and provide insight into social organisation of Iron Age Southeast Asia’s communities. To visit the jar sites one would typically stay in Phonsavan.

So okay, modern archaeologists say they were burial urns... seriously?  Just scattered around the landscape so haphazardly?  Uh Huh... Remind me to do my list of "198 Reasons why Zorgon hates Archaeologists"

So fine, Wikipedia gives us the basics without the copyright issues and does link us to photos and sources we can follow up on. For that reason alone Wikipedia is a useful tool


Laos Plain of Jars - site 1. December 2005 Photographer: Oliver Spalt

The Jar Sites


Plain of Jars, outlined on Central Intelligence Agency country map. Source of map

Why the CIA? Because the Plain of Jars was included in a War operation back in the 60's. Here is the direct link to the CIA archives
The Fall of Lima Site 85 — Central Intelligence Agency

Okay more on that shortly but lets get done the basics. More than NINETY sites of these jars. That is some 'town dump' :D

Quote
More than 90 sites are known within the province of Xieng Khouang. Each site ranges from 1 up to 400 stone jars. The jars vary in height and diameter between 1 and 3 metres and are all without exception hewn out of rock. The stone jars are undecorated with the exception of a single jar at Site 1. This jar has a human bas-relief carved on the exterior. Parallels between this ‘frogman’ at Site 1 and the rock painting at Huashan in Guangxi, China have been drawn. The paintings, which depict large full-frontal humans with arms raised and knees bent, are dated to 500 BC - 200 AD .

From the fact that most of the jars have lip rims, it is presumed that all stone jars supported lids, although few stone lids have been recorded; this may suggest that the bulk of lids were fashioned from perishable materials. Stone lids with animal representations have been noticed at few sites such as Ban Phakeo (Site 52). The bas-relief animals are thought to be monkeys, tigers and frogs. No in situ lid has ever been found.

Not to be confused with stone lids are the stone discs. The stone discs have at least one flat side and are grave markers which were placed on the surface to cover or mark a burial pit. These grave markers appear more infrequently than stone jars, but are found in close proximity. Similar are stone grave markers; these stones are unworked, but have been placed intentionally to mark a grave. To the north of Xieng Khouang an extensive network of intentionally placed largely unworked stones marking elaborate burial pits and chambers are known as ‘standing stones of Huaphan’. Following the investigations by Colani, these were dated to the Bronze Age. Material associated with the stone grave markers in Xieng Khouang, however, is similar to the stone jars artefacts.

The jars lie in clusters on the lower footslopes and mountain ridges of the hills surrounding the central plateau and upland valleys. Several quarry sites have been recorded usually close to the jar sites. Five rock types are known:sandstone, granite, conglomerate, limestone and breccia.

The majority of the jars are sandstone and have been manufactured with a degree of knowledge of what materials and techniques were suitable. It is assumed that Plain of Jars' people used iron chisels to manufacture the jars, although no conclusive evidence for this exists. Regional differences in jar shape have been noted. While the differences in most cases can be attributed to choice and manipulation of rock source, form differences, such as small apertures and apertures on both ends (double holed jars) which would affect the use of the jar, have been recorded in one district only.

The cave at Site 1 is a natural limestone cave with an opening to the northwest and two man-made holes at the top of the cave. These holes are interpreted as chimneys of the crematorium. French geologist and amateur archaeologist Madeleine Colani excavated inside the cave in the early 1930 and found archaeological material to support a centralized crematorium theory. Colani also recorded and excavated at twelve Plain of Jars sites and published two volumes with her findings in 1935.

The material findings and context led her to the interpretation of the Plain of Jars as an Iron Age burial site. Inside the jars, she found embedded in black organic soil coloured glass beads, burnt teeth and bone fragments, sometimes from more than one individual. Around the stone jars, she found human bones, pottery fragments, iron and bronze objects, glass and stone beads, ceramic weights and charcoal. The bone and teeth inside the stone jars show signs of cremation, while the burials surrounding the jars yield unburnt secondary burial bones.



Plain of Jars, Site One Credit: Mattun0211 8 May 2008

So why have we not heard much about this site? Well no one did any work on it until 1994, so effectively its a 'recent find'

Quote
No further archaeological research was conducted until November 1994, when Professor Eiji Nitta of the Kagoshima University in collaboration with Lao Archaeologist Thongsa Sayavongkhamdy surveyed and mapped Site 1. Nitta claims the surrounding burial pits are contemporary to the stone jar, as they are cut into the ancient surface on which the jar was placed. Nitta believes the stone jar was a symbolic monument to mark the surrounding burials.

He dates the Plain of Jars to the late first or early second millennium B.C. based on the burial urn and associated grave goods. Sayavongkhamdy undertook survey and excavation between 1994 and 1996 supported by the Australian National University. Sayavongkhamdy and Bellwood interpret the stone jars as a central single person's primary or secondary burial, surrounded by secondary burials of family members. Archaeological data collected during UXO clearance operations supervised by UNESCO archaeologist Julie Van Den Bergh at the in 2004-2005 and again in 2007 provided similar archaeological material results. Van Den Bergh recorded similar to Nitta stratigraphical evidence that the stone jars and surrounding burials are contemporary.

The differing burial practices of cremation inside and secondary inhumation surrounding the jar, as noted by Colani, can not easily be explained, in particular as the cremated remains were identified mainly belonging to adolescents and the associated material does not appear to differ greatly from the surrounding burials. While the UXO clearance operations did not include emptying of jars and thus no additional evidence could be gathered, Van Den Bergh claims that the stone jars initially may have been used to distil the dead bodies and that the cremated remains within the stone jars represent the latest phase in Plain of Jars. The stone jars with smaller aperture may reflect the diminishing need to place an entire body inside.

The suggestion that stone jars in a similar fashion as traditional Southeast Asian Royal mortuary practices, functioned as 'distilling vessels', was put forward by R. Engelhardt and P. Rogers in 2001. In contemporary funerary practices connected to Thai, Cambodian and Laotian royalty, the corpse of the deceased during the early stages of the funeral rites is placed into an urn, while the deceased is undergoing gradual transformation from the earthly to the spiritual world. The ritual decomposition is followed by cremation and secondary burial.

The royal burials are located across watercourses from the habitation areas in a geographically high, prominent area. Meanwhile, it is interesting to note that amongst the Black Thai people who have been in the region at least since the 11th century, the elite are cremated to release their spirit to heaven, while commoners are buried, leaving their spirit to remain on earth.

Colani connected the location of the jars sites to ancient trade routes and in particular with the salt trade. He assumed salt was a commodity sought after by the Plain of Jars people, bringing traders to the Xieng Khouang Plateau. The Xieng Khouang area is rich in metallic minerals, mainly due to the granite intrusions and associated hydrothermal activity.

Two principal iron ore deposits exist in Lao and both are in Xieng Khouang. The presence and locations of the numerous jar sites in Xieng Khouang may relate to trading and mining activities. History has also shown that Xieng Khouang at the northern end of the Annamite Range provides relative easy passage from the north and east to the south and west.

Within the geographic setting of Xieng Khouang, the jar sites may reflect a network of intercultural villages, whereby the locations of the jars are associated to long-distance overland routes which connect the Mekong basin and the Gulf of Tonkin System. The jar sites show superficial regional differences such as jar form, material and number of jars per site but share common setting characteristics such as burial practices, elevated locations and commanding views over the surrounding area.

The most investigated and visited Jar site is located close to the town of Phonsavan, and is known as Site 1. Seven jar sites however, have been cleared of UXO (unexploded bombs) and are open to visitors. These are currently most visited Site 1, 2 and 3, and Site 16 near the Old Capital Xieng Khouang, Site 23, near the big hot spring in Muang Kham, Site 25 in the largely unvisited Muang Phukoot district and Site 52, the largest known jar site to date with 392 jars near a traditional Hmong village only accessible on foot.


Laos Plain of Jars with Hmong Girls - site 1.December 2005 Photographer: Oliver Spalt

So Archaeologists are telling us they are burial jars. Well maybe... it is possible that people saw the jars of the Giants and decided to use them for that, but what do the locals say?

Legends and local history

Quote
Lao stories and legends told there was once a race of giants who inhabited the area. Local legend tells of an ancient king called Khun Cheung, who fought a long, eventually victorious battle against his enemy. He allegedly created the jars to brew and store huge amounts of lao lao rice wine to celebrate his victory. Another local tradition states the jars were molded, using natural materials such as clay, sand, sugar, and animal products in a type of stone mix. This led the locals to believe the cave at Site 1 was actually a kiln, and that the huge jars were fired there and are not actually of stone.

Another suggested explanation for the jars' use is to collect monsoon rainwater for caravan travellers along their journey at times when rain may have been seasonal and water was not readily available on the easiest foot paths. Rainwater would then be boiled, even if stagnant, to become potable again, a practice long understood in Eastern Eurasia. The trade caravans that camped around these jars and could have placed beads inside them as an offering, accompanying prayers for rain or they might simply have been unassociated lost items.

Lao stories and legends told there was once a race of giants who inhabited the area.

Ah now there we go. Makes sense to me. An that cave used as a kiln? So maybe the jars strewn about are all rejects from the jar maker :D  Works for me... stuff those stodgy old archaeologists :P

Current situation

Quote
Between 1964 and 1973, Laos was subject to the most intense bombing raids ever by US bombers (see Secret War) . In this period, more ordnance was dropped on Laos and particularly on the Plain of Jars, including 260 million cluster bombs, than was dropped during the whole of World War II. 80 million failed to explode and pose a deadly threat to the population to this very day.

The large quantity of UXOs (unexploded ordnance) in the area, especially cluster munitions, limits free movement. All over the plain evidence of the bombing raids can be seen in the form of broken or displaced jars and bomb craters. Sightseeing on the Plain of Jars can only be done on cleared and marked pathways.

The Mines Advisory Group, a non-governmental organization, in collaboration with UNESCO and funded by the New Zealand Government (NZAID) conducted a UXO clearance phase at the three most visited sites from July 2004  until July 2005. A second phase of UXO clearance at the jar sites also funded by NZAID was undertaken in 2007; four more jar sites were made safe.

The Laotian government is considering applying for status as a UNESCO World Heritage site for the Plain of Jars. The UNESCO-Lao Safeguarding the Plain of Jars Project has been an ongoing effort by UNESCO and the Lao Government to document and rehabilitate the Plain of Jars. Clearing of the UXO-hazards is one requirement before the sites can be studied and developed for tourism. Community based involvement in the management and conservation of the jar sites has been one of the main objectives of the project and is proving to be success. Unfortunately, tourism pressure on the main visited sites is the main cause of recent damage to the stone jars.

Plain of Jars Wikipedia

WOW so marvelous. The US bombed another archaeological site with proof of Giants into near oblivion, just like the Chinese turned their site into an atomic test site.

260 million cluster bombs? Really? and 80 million still just lying around? No wonder we know so little about this site.

« Last Edit: February 05, 2013, 04:38:35 PM by zorgon »

Offline zorgon

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Re: The Plain of Jars - Town Dump for Ancient Giants?
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2013, 03:55:19 PM »
Now its not often I get my information on Ancient sites from the MILITARY   :o

 ::)

Already linked the CIA document above. They only make brief mention that the Plain of Jars was included in the operation region, but here is the Air Force version...

Then we need to get John's opinion, seeing as he flew those CIA missions back in the day :D

The Plain of Jars
By Walter J. Boyne

 
The "secret" war in Laos was a sideshow to the main war in Vietnam--and the crossroads of it lay here.

Quote
The Plain of Jars is a 500-square-mile, diamond-shaped region in northern Laos, covered with rolling hills, high ridges, and grassy flatlands. Its average altitude is about 3,000 feet. It derives its name from the hundreds of huge gray stone "jars" that dot the landscape. About 5 feet high and half again as broad, these containers were created by a people of a megalithic iron-age culture and probably served as burial urns. Exactly who created them, and why their culture disappeared, is not known.

During the long Southeast Asian war, all sides found the Plain of Jars to be situated in a highly strategic location. The area was a home to several airfields and contained a limited road complex that connected various sectors of Laos to themselves and to the outside world. This crossroads has been a battleground for centuries but never so intensively as in this century's many overlapping conflicts in Indochina.

The struggle for the Plain of Jars in Laos in the 1960s and 1970s was a mysterious and tragic affair, wrapped up in confusion and obscured by years of falsehoods and half-truths. It was a sideshow to the main war in Vietnam, but it was ennobled by some of the finest and most heroic flying in the history of the United States Air Force.

These valiant efforts were designed to support US-backed forces and destroy communist North Vietnamese units that opposed them. The many campaigns in the Plain of Jars were fought in parallel with a continuing bombing effort against the Ho Chi Minh Trail. The latter campaign would prove to be futile, for enemy activities in South Vietnam could be sustained on as little as 60 tons of supplies a day-the equivalent of about 30 trucks' worth of materiel.

The Secret War

Quote
The Laotian war was a "secret" war, by tacit agreement of both sides. It was nominally a civil war, purportedly reflecting the divided interests and political loyalties of members of the Laotian royal family. In fact, the war was fought largely by surrogates for their own aims, the Laotians proving generally to be peace-loving even when--especially when--in uniform.

The communist force comprised tough, regular North Vietnamese army units and supplementary--and generally not very effective--local Pathet Lao units. They were opposed by the very ineffective Royal Laotian armed forces, whose leaders preferred to let the despised Laotian hill people, the Hmong, do the real fighting. The US supplied airpower on a very limited scale, initially, but in greater and greater amounts as the war progressed.

As the Hmong casualties rose, the US-sponsored fighting forces were increasingly augmented by Thai "volunteers," whose numbers eventually reached 17,000. These mostly were mercenaries paid with US funds and led by the Thai army's regular officers and noncommissioned officers.

The situation suited the US, which was loath to introduce American ground forces. The Hmong were supported by airpower and supplied by the CIA. Coincidentally, the North Vietnamese also were content to let the war simmer, as long as they could protect traffic along the ever-growing Ho Chi Minh Trail. Air sorties against the Plain of Jars tied up US military assets that otherwise would be used to bomb the trail. North Vietnam was confident that, when South Vietnam fell, Laos would fall.

The worst result of the 14-year struggle for the Plain of Jars was the destruction of a noble ally, the Hmong. They fought in countless battles against North Vietnamese forces and were in the end left to their fates. Originally numbering about 300,000 people, living high on mountain ridges and subsisting by means of slash-and-burn agricultural techniques, the Hmong suffered some 30,000 casualties, mostly young fighting men.

The Hmong families were driven from their homes to CIA-supported hilltop encampments, where they were fed by "soft rice drops" and armed by "hard rice drops." When the end came, those who could do so fled to camps in Thailand. Those who chose to remain in Laos were for years hunted down and killed by Laotian communists. A few Hmong relocated to the US.

The war was fought through the years on a seasonal basis, with US­sponsored forces advancing from April through September in the monsoon season and the North Vietnamese and its allies responding during the dry season of October through March. Perhaps unique to this ebb-and-flow war was an unusual vertical separation of territory, for the Hmong often dominated mountains and ridges even when the Pathet Lao or North Vietnamese owned the valleys below. It should be noted that the lowland Laotians discriminated against the hill people.

Laos is a landlocked country that shares a border with Cambodia, China, Thailand, Vietnam, and Burma (now called Myanmar). Its recorded history starts with the Lao kingdom of Lan Xang, founded in the 1300s. It has since suffered through six centuries of more or less unbroken warfare. In 1907, France established the modern borders of Laos, primarily to serve as a bulwark against Thai and Chinese expansion into what was then French Indochina. It was granted independence in 1953.

SOURCE: Air Force Magazine

Offline zorgon

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Re: The Plain of Jars - Town Dump for Ancient Giants?
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2013, 04:06:17 PM »
Its all about connections.... :D

John's CIA History



The CIA Chronicles, John Lear’s Vietnam War Secret Missions

The ATS MIX Team has been waiting to do this show with their good friend John Lear for quite awhile now. Inspired by their Military.Com fan base who expressed an interest about the Air America / Continental Air Services, Inc. days of the CIA secret missions during the war in Vietnam, Dave and Johnny cornered their good friend to get his candid and uncensored story of this particular time in his life as a pilot for the CIA.

John Lear was a pilot for Continental Air Services, Inc. (CASI), a Subsidiary of Continental Air Lines which was in existence from 1965 to 1975. It was formed in April 1965 by Continental Airlines at the suggestion of the United States Government. The objective was to provide a "less visible" air transport alternative to the CIA associated “Air America” for the growing Laotian support. Continental Air Services, Inc. (CASI) became operational in September 1965. Their pilots provided contract air support to Unites States Government activities. Continental Air Services, Inc. Ceased operations in 1975. 32 years later, John and his fellow CASI pilots and crew would finally get their just recognition.

ATS Mix interview at AboveTopSecret.com
Length: 95:26; file: atsmix_2768.mp3; size: 44737k; feed: atsmix

Continental Air Services, Inc.

Air America



John Lear on final approach to the most secret CIA base in Laos, Longtieng


Laos Skyline
John Lear dropping ammo and supplies to the troops



General Vang Pao and John Lear. General Vang Pao led the
Hmong soldiers with the CIA and United States troops in Laos



"Here are my 8 passports. I always carried 2 because some countries hold your passport on entry. If you have to make an escape you always have a backup passport - John Lear


Here is my Congressional commendation for my flights with CASI. I flew 560 missions in Laos of which about half were combat - John Lear


"Here is a logbook entry for my Budapest-Mogadishu flights "


"Here is a page from the flights in Laos. December 14, 1972 is when I got shot down Note the entry. "


"This is a photo of Long Tieng where I flew out of. It was the most secret CIA base in Southeast Asia "


"With Bob Moberg USDEA Chiang Mai "


"Gen. Vang Pao CIA strongman in LAOS "

Offline zorgon

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Re: The Plain of Jars - Town Dump for Ancient Giants?
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2013, 04:12:36 PM »
LAOS: PLAIN OF JARS
Air Force Fact Sheet



Thailand-based U.S. Air Force aircraft used to train Thai, Laotian and CIA pilots. (U.S. Air Force photo).

Posted 1/20/2012 Printable Fact Sheet
 
THE SECRET WAR

In response to a Laotian request for assistance, the U.S. initiated covert operations to keep "neutral" Laos from falling to the communist offensive across the Plain of Jars. The U.S. ambassador in Laos assumed control of all US operations in northern Laos, including the CIA-operated Air America fleet, and approved all targets struck by U.S. forces. BARREL ROLL was the code name for this area of operations.

WATER PUMP
In 1964 the USAF began providing aircraft and flight instruction to the Royal Laotian Air Force (RLAF). Under the name WATER PUMP, USAF Air Commandos in Thailand trained RLAF, Thai and civilian Air America pilots to fly armed T-28 trainers and C-47 cargo aircraft in support of Laotian ground forces. WATER PUMP later expanded to include forward air control, armed reconnaissance and close air support strikes by USAF Air Commandos flying from Udorn Air Base in Thailand.

OPERATION BARREL ROLL
In the spring of 1964 Pathet Lao (Laotian communists) and North Vietnamese troops drove Laotian forces from the Plain of Jars in northern Laos. At first, the USAF only flew unarmed reconnaissance missions. As the situation grew worse, the USAF began flying combat strike missions in northern Laos in under the code name BARREL ROLL. Strike aircraft used during BARREL ROLL included F-100s, F-105s and F-4s based in Thailand and South Vietnam (no USAF jet combat aircraft were stationed in "neutral" Laos).

When the dry season in the fall of 1965 made offensive ground operations on the Plain of Jars possible, the communists launched their largest offensive to date. Air power gradually slowed the Pathet Lao advance, and by August 1966, a Royal Laotian counterattack had advanced to within 45 miles of the North Vietnamese border. North Vietnam responded by sending in more troops, and once again the Laotians retreated. This remained the pattern for the next two years, with the ground situation changing back and forth with the seasons. The USAF flew thousands of BARREL ROLL missions, but poor weather at times caused missions to be cancelled.

In 1970 fresh North Vietnamese troops advanced through northern Laos. In February USAF B-52s bombed targets in northern Laos for the first time. Laotian reinforcements, along with the AC-47 gunships the USAF had provided to the Royal Laotian Air Force, stopped the enemy. For the rest of the year, it remained a "seesaw" military campaign. Through 1972, the communists slowly occupied more territory in northern Laos with their superior numbers, but they failed to overwhelm government forces.

Warning: DOT MIL site
http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=15747


Damage caused by a communist ground attack on Luang Prabang airfield, Laos, 1967. (U.S. Air Force photo).


Unmarked T-28 attach aircraft. (U.S. Air Force photo).


Often forced to operate from short, crude and isolated landing strips known as Lima Sites, Air America relied on helicopters and rugged light aircraft like this Pilatus PC-6 Porter. (U.S. Air Force photo).

Offline zorgon

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Re: The Plain of Jars - Town Dump for Ancient Giants?
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2013, 04:17:52 PM »
The Secret War in Laos (Plain of Jars) - by Laovideos.com

[youtube]puhQ3EVr3ro[/youtube]

Uploaded on Jul 4, 2010

Exclusive Lao war video in Xieng Khuang Province (northern Laos). The site of the Plain of Jars was the most heavily bombed and devastated by the war.


Offline zorgon

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Re: The Plain of Jars - Town Dump for Ancient Giants?
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2013, 04:24:04 PM »
When Giants Walked Through Laos - The Mystery of The Giant Jars in Laos.



Posted By Calvin Michael Meyer

Quote
The Plain of Jars is a megalithic archaeological landscape in Laos. Scattered in the landscape of the Xieng Khouang plateau, Xieng Khouang, Lao PDR, are thousands of megalithic jars. These stone jars appear in clusters, ranging from a single or a few to several hundred jars at lower foothills surrounding the central plain and upland valleys.

More than 90 sites are known within the province of Xieng Khouang. Each site ranges from 1 up to 400 stone jars. The jars vary in height and diameter between 1 and 3 metres and are all without exception hewn out of rock.

Lao stories and legends told there was once a race of giants who inhabited the area. Local legend tells of an ancient king called Khun Cheung, who fought a long, eventually victorious battle against his enemy. He allegedly created the jars to brew and store huge amounts of lao lao rice wine to celebrate his victory. Another local tradition states the jars were molded, using natural materials such as clay, sand, sugar, and animal products in a type of stone mix.

Another suggested explanation for the jars' use is to collect monsoon rainwater for caravan travellers along their journey at times when rain may have been seasonal and water was not readily available on the easiest foot paths. Rainwater would then be boiled, even if stagnant, to become potable again, a practice long understood in Eastern Eurasia.

SOURCE: Facebook



Okay opening the thread now. I will create a website page on this later today as part of the revamping process :D  This one sparked my muse again :D
« Last Edit: February 05, 2013, 04:57:29 PM by zorgon »

sky otter

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Re: The Plain of Jars - Town Dump for Ancient Giants?
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2013, 06:41:06 PM »

i saw the jars on one of the tv shows a few years ago..the small size of the local humans make them look even bigger
but
i have always thought that if the dinosaurs were that big..why couldn't the humans also be that big....old puzzle

hubby was a 1lt in army engineers..and they were building roads and  landing strips in cambodia
in 69-70..while we were being told no one was there..
we the paying public didn't know poop..and we know even less now..they are that good with the smoke and mirrors
 :(
« Last Edit: February 05, 2013, 06:47:01 PM by sky otter »

Offline irmensul13

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Re: The Plain of Jars - Town Dump for Ancient Giants?
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2014, 12:02:49 AM »
Just a quick reply to say,interesting thread,intriguing topic..I have been wracking my brain over this for the past month on & off..
Could it be a sort of currency like the stones elsewhere I read about?
...Nar...

space otter

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Re: The Plain of Jars - Town Dump for Ancient Giants?
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2016, 12:01:15 PM »
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ancient-burials-revealed-at-mysterious-plain-of-jars-in-laos/ar-BBrk4qP?li=BBnb7Kz

AFP
8 hrs ago


Ancient burials revealed at mysterious Plain of Jars in Laos



© Provided by AFP Human remains at an ancient burial ground at one of Asia’s most mysterious sites – the Plain of Jars in Laos' central Xieng Khouang province 

Archaeologists have uncovered ancient human remains and various burial practices at the mysterious Plain of Jars in Laos, Australian researchers said Monday, as scientists attempt to unravel the puzzle of the stone vessels.

The Plain of Jars in Laos' central Xieng Khouang province is scattered with thousands of stone jars and scientists have long been perplexed by their original use.

"This will be the first major effort since the 1930s to attempt to understand the purpose of the jars and who created them," Dougald O'Reilly from the Australian National University's school of archaeology said in a statement.

He said excavations uncovered three types of burials at the site. In one practice, bones were buried in pits with a large limestone block placed over them, while other bones were found buried in ceramic vessels, separate from the jars.


© Provided by AFP The Plain of Jars is scattered with thousands of ancient stone jars which were first discovered by French archaeologists in the 1930s 

The researchers also found for the first time an instance of a body being placed in a grave.

O'Reilly said while the jars were empty now, it is possible they were once used to hold bodies until the flesh had completely decomposed so the bones could then be buried.

"We don't have any evidence for cremation which is something that has been suggested in the past," said O'Reilly, adding that it was also unclear where those buried had lived.

Despite the finds, he said the original purpose of the jars remains unknown.

"The stone jars remain a mystery as to what they were used for," O'Reilly told AFP.

Only a few simple objects, such as a handful of glass beads, have been found with the human remains at the burial sites, which are thought to date from about 500 or 600 BC to 550 AD.



© Provided by AFP The burial sites at the Plain of Jars in Laos are thought to date from about 500 or 600 BC to 550 AD 

A joint Australia-Laos research team spent one month collecting data at the site and O'Reilly said he hoped a better archaeological understanding of the Plain of Jars would help with a bid to have it listed as a UNESCO World Heritage site.

About 90 sites make up the intriguing area in the Southeast Asian nation, with the carved jars ranging in size from one to three metres tall (three to 10 feet).

The excavations were conducted in February in conjunction with the Laos Ministry of Information, Culture and Tourism and Melbourne's Monash University as part of a five-year project.



....................................................



http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-04-04/ancient-stone-jars-used-for-burial-practices-in-laos-anu-says/7296828

By Elise Pianegonda 
Updated about 4 hours ago

Stone jars used to dispose of the dead in ancient Laos, Australian researchers say



Photo: The sites contains ancient stone jars that Australian researchers say were used in burial practices. (Supplied: Australian National University)

The Plain of Jars in central Laos is made up of 90 sites, each containing ancient carved stone jars up to three metres tall.

On Monday, the Australian National University (ANU) announced a team from the School of Archaeology and Anthropology had discovered human remains estimated to be 2,500 years old, shedding light on the use of the sites and jars which had been previously unknown.

Lead ANU researcher Dr Dougald O'Reilly said the project was the first major archaeological dig at the Plain of Jars since the 1930s.

"One theory is that [the jars] were used to decompose the bodies. Later, after the flesh was removed, the remains may have been buried around the jars," Dr O'Reilly said.

"What is now clear is that these are mortuary and were used for the disposal of the dead."

Dr O'Reilly said the jars ranged in size between one to three metres in height and some weighed in excess of 10 tonnes.

"The use of these jars was probably during the Iron Age of South-East Asia," he said.

"What we found were secondary burials, so these are human bones that have been collected up and buried around the jars and we don't have any evidence of cremation in those cases."

Dr O'Reilly said the dig in February had unearthed two different types of secondary burial, as well as the first-known primary burial at the sites.

"They were either buried just bundles of bones or it appears they were put into ceramic containers and then buried," he said.

"But exciting for us, we also found evidence of primary burial, which hadn't been reported in Laos before, so this is a person who is just buried straight into a grave in the ground."

vid at link

He said scientific analysis of how and why the burial jars were used would also shed light on the day-to-day life of the people who used the burial system.

"This will open up a huge amount of information into who these people were," he said.

"We're trying to find evidence of occupation. Because these are mortuary sites, there's no evidence of people living near them.

"Indeed if the jars were used to decompose bodies you probably wouldn't want to be living in close proximity to them."

The excavations conducted in February 2016 formed part of a five-year Australian Research Council Discovery Project, which is being managed in conjunction with Monash University and the Lao Ministry of Information, Culture and Tourism.

The Lao Government is currently pushing for the Plain of Jars to be listed as a UNESCO World Heritage site.

Topics: archaeology, science-and-technology, university-and-further-education, australia, australian-national-university-0200, canberra-2600, act, melbourne-3000, vic

First posted yesterday at 10:26pm




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http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/asia/921033/ancient-burials-revealed-at-laos-mysterious-plain-of-jars

Ancient burials revealed at Laos' mysterious Plain of Jars
• 4 Apr 2016 at 18:30
• WRITER: AFP



This undated handout photo from the Australian National University received on April 4 shows an overview of an ancient burial ground at one of Asia’s most mysterious sites -- the Plain of Jars in Laos' central Xieng Khouang province. (AFP photo)

SYDNEY - Archaeologists have uncovered ancient human remains and various burial practices at the mysterious Plain of Jars in Laos, Australian researchers said Monday, as scientists attempt to unravel the puzzle of the stone vessels.

The Plain of Jars in Laos' central Xieng Khouang province is scattered with thousands of stone jars and scientists have long been perplexed by their original use.

"This will be the first major effort since the 1930s to attempt to understand the purpose of the jars and who created them," Dougald O'Reilly from the Australian National University's school of archaeology said in a statement.

He said excavations uncovered three types of burials at the site. In one practice, bones were buried in pits with a large limestone block placed over them, while other bones were found buried in ceramic vessels, separate from the jars.

The researchers also found for the first time an instance of a body being placed in a grave.

O'Reilly said while the jars were empty now, it is possible they were once used to hold bodies until the flesh had completely decomposed so the bones could then be buried.

"We don't have any evidence for cremation which is something that has been suggested in the past," said O'Reilly, adding that it was also unclear where those buried had lived.

Despite the finds, he said the original purpose of the jars remains unknown.

"The stone jars remain a mystery as to what they were used for," O'Reilly told AFP

Only a few simple objects, such as a handful of glass beads, have been found with the human remains at the burial sites, which are thought to date from about 500 or 600 BC to 550 AD.

A joint Australia-Laos research team spent one month collecting data at the site and O'Reilly said he hoped a better archaeological understanding of the Plain of Jars would help with a bid to have it listed as a UNESCO World Heritage site.

About 90 sites make up the intriguing area in the Southeast Asian nation, with the carved jars ranging in size from one to three metres tall (three to 10 feet).

The excavations were conducted in February in conjunction with the Laos Ministry of Information, Culture and Tourism and Melbourne's Monash University as part of a five-year project.


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« Last Edit: April 04, 2016, 12:11:51 PM by space otter »

Offline Dyna

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Re: The Plain of Jars - Town Dump for Ancient Giants?
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2016, 11:41:54 AM »
Catching water, hum the effort to carve these stones compared to creating reservoirs or ponds seems big but they did have lids I believe which may make it feasible.

I like the giant idea but would there not be some broken plates or something also?

Do they know if the stones could have been carved in place or were they moved I guess that would tell a lot. You may have answered that already i have not had time to read thoroughly the thread yet.

Could there be an unrecognized pattern they do remind me of the fields of standing stones.

Does the time period coincide with any of the other large stone oddities?
Quote
And other strange stone artifacts that do not fit the conventional Japanese historical paradigm include this finely shaped granite stone also in the Asuka area

https://hiddenincatours.com/the-strange-megalithic-stones-of-masuda-no-iwafune-in-japan/

Discarded or half finished giant tool heads or belt buckles? :)




Found the plates  :)
Houaphanh Province, Laos: Hintang(Standing Stone) with the Disc shape
« Last Edit: April 07, 2016, 12:19:14 PM by Dyna »
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