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Author Topic: Justice Department Drone memo: currently an exclusive  (Read 1981 times)

sky otter

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Justice Department Drone memo: currently an exclusive
« on: February 04, 2013, 07:38:56 PM »
 :'(
i'm not dumb and this is nothing new after reading the patriot act..but my heart truly bleeds to read this and i feel guilty  spreading gloom and doom with it...because those here  already have a good idea of what the score is and us peons are losing
and reading this makes me wonder where they will choose to use the first attack on u s soil and not abroad :'(

 :'(

http://openchannel.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02/04/16843014-exclusive-justice-department-memo-reveals-legal-case-for-drone-strikes-on-americans


EXCLUSIVE: Justice Department memo reveals legal case for drone strikes on Americans

By Michael Isikoff
National Investigative Correspondent, NBC News
A confidential Justice Department memo concludes that the U.S. government can order the killing of American citizens if they are believed to be “senior operational leaders” of al-Qaida or “an associated force” -- even if there is no intelligence indicating they are engaged in an active plot to attack the U.S.

The 16-page memo, (embedded pdf  file at link)  a copy of which was obtained by NBC News, provides new details about the legal reasoning behind one of the Obama administration’s most secretive and controversial polices: its dramatically increased use of drone strikes against al-Qaida suspects, including those aimed at American citizens, such as the  September 2011 strike in Yemen that killed alleged al-Qaida operatives Anwar al-Awlaki and Samir Khan. Both were U.S. citizens who had never been indicted by the U.S. government nor charged with any crimes. 

surrounding such strikes is fast emerging as a central issue in this week’s hearing of White House counterterrorism adviser John Brennan, a key architect of the drone campaign, to be CIA director.  Brennan was the first administration official to publicly acknowledge drone strikes in a speech last year, calling them “consistent with the inherent right of self-defense.”

the rest is here

http://openchannel.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02/04/16843014-exclusive-justice-department-memo-reveals-legal-case-for-drone-strikes-on-americans
« Last Edit: February 04, 2013, 10:33:04 PM by zorgon »

Offline ArMaP

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Re: Justice Department Drone memo: currently an exclusive
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2013, 06:52:06 AM »
I think it's a good thing that the US now applies the same rules to their citizens, they are as human as the non-US citizens.

sky otter

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Re: Justice Department Drone memo: currently an exclusive
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2013, 08:30:59 AM »

ArMap
they could have easily just called them traitors and done the same thing

what this does is give them the power to label and bomb via drones
on groups they want to get rid of right here.  i.e.  the occupy group,etc

the patroit act gave them that ability except  from the sky..now
they have carte blanche to not just cart you off with no rights
but to drop bombs on you if you have a suspected location
so anyone gets in thier way and all they need to do if you aren't a terroist
is say.. opps..wrong guy sorry

the laws that get on the books are seldom taken off because folks forget,
don't know and basically don't pay attention
then some future hot shot uses them in a way that is out of the time they were written

this messes with the future more than the present

 >:(.. :(.. :'(


ok..here's to having a lighter side


http://www.legalzoom.com/us-law/more-us-law/top-craziest-laws-still

Top Craziest Laws Still on the Books
Stephanie Paul - Oct 2007

Motorists take heed: If you ever find yourself driving at night through rural parts of Pennsylvania, state law requires that you stop every mile to send up a rocket signal. It's true. And if you see a skittish team of horses coming toward you, be sure to take your car apart, piece by piece, and hide it under the nearest bushes—unless, of course, you want to be in violation of state law.

Seem implausible? Actually, this absurd Pennsylvania law is technically still on the books. In fact, Pennsylvania is not alone. If you look hard enough, each state has its own collection of outdated, silly laws. And while these laws may never be enforced, they are still legally valid because no one has bothered to repeal them. Most of these laws are so old, lawmakers themselves aren't even aware that many of them exist.


Have you broken any of these Laws?


Let's take Missouri for example. Just so you know—you can't drive down the highway with an uncaged bear in your car. But if you happen to pass into Farmington, Connecticut, you will have to share the road with bovine travelers. In this city, cows have the same rights on the roads as do motorists.


When parking your elephant at a meter in Orlando Florida, be sure to deposit the same amount of change as you would for a regular motor vehicle. And if you stop for a beer in North Dakota, don't expect to get any pretzels with your beverage. It's against the law in that state to serve beer and pretzels at the same time.


Blue Laws


Blue Laws are those established specifically to prohibit certain behavior on Sundays, or "God's Day." Although in general, few people strictly uphold the Sabbath anymore, many cities and towns across America still have legal reminders of this observance on the books. For example, in Salem, West Virginia, it's against the law to eat candy less than an hour and a half before church service.


In Winona Lake, Wisconsin, it is illegal to eat ice cream at a counter on Sunday. And don't expect to order a slice of cherry pie a la mode in Kansas on the Lord's Day. No restaurant is allowed to serve it unless they're willing to run afoul of local police. Marbles, Dominoes, and yo-yos are also banned on Sundays in a handful of states.

Concerning Man's Best Friend


If you are a dog owner, be sure to take care not to violate any of the numerous laws concerning your four-legged pal. If you're planning a short stint in Hartford, Connecticut, you might want to keep your dog's obedience training under wraps. It's against the law to educate dogs in that city.


In some places, it's also against the law to expose your dog to the hazards of smoking. In Illinois, for example, it's illegal to give lighted cigars to your pets—even if they do enjoy a good Cuban from time to time. If you happen to stay in Normal , Oklahoma, be sure to restrain yourself from teasing dogs by making ugly faces. You guessed it, that kind of inflammatory behavior is against the law.



sometimes i am just sooooo embarrased to be in this meatsuit   ::)
« Last Edit: February 05, 2013, 08:35:55 AM by sky otter »

Offline petrus4

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Re: Justice Department Drone memo: currently an exclusive
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2013, 09:17:27 AM »
Every one of these sorts of measures, has always had one thing in common.  There is always a reassurance given, that none of them will ever be used on Americans.

The suspension of Habeus Corpus, would not apply to Americans.
Special rendition, and the imprisonment of people in places like Gitmo, would never be done to Americans.
Lethal drone strikes would never be used on Americans.

What we see, therefore, is that every single one of these measures is successfully implemented due to an appeal to white supremacist racism; the idea that somehow it is only America's enemies which are considered less than human, and therefore supposedly dehumanising treatment and murder of them is acceptable. 

We can further say that the implementation of these measures, when they begin to affect Americans themselves, is karma for American racism.  It is karma for American exclusivity; the fundamental belief that white America was built on and born with, that it is perfectly acceptable for everyone else of every ethnicity and nationality on the planet to be tortured, to be mutilated, to suffer and to die, and for every other country or continent on the planet to be bombed, burned, and destroyed, but that America and Americans were sacrosanct, and somehow inviolate.  That when it happened to said other countries, and other peoples, it might very well be done at the hand of Americans themselves, but that was acceptable for the very reason that said others were "other."

This is what you must learn, white Americans; and it is the most important and fundamental lesson for your country to grasp, at the moment.  That you are not different.  That you are not special.  That you are not exceptional, and you are not the proverbial shining house on the hill, the inviolate, untouchable example that the rest of humanity is supposed to emulate. 

This is why 9/11 was as agonising for the country as it was; and, therefore, as necessary.  This is why I welcome Black Hawk Down, and the work of Julian Assange, and every other object lesson in humility which your government and military has or will receive.  This is why your country must, and will, be entirely and completely destroyed; every bit of it, every blade of grass.  This is why you must also feel every last remnant of all of the fear, pain, helplessness, and wretchedness which your military has inflicted upon countless others, in countries all over the world.

Whenever a heinous act (or even a positive act, as we consider it) is committed, it is necessary for both parties within said transaction, to experience both sides; as the giver, or inflictor, and as the recipient, or target.  I long for this in America's case purely because, it is only after America has experienced this, that humanity as a whole will be able to begin to truly heal.

This is justice.  This is balance.  This is equilibrium.  This is karma; and Lady Liberty's account is due.

« Last Edit: February 05, 2013, 09:33:49 AM by petrus4 »
"Sacred cows make the tastiest hamburgers."
        — Abbie Hoffman

sky otter

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Re: Justice Department Drone memo: currently an exclusive
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2013, 09:42:18 AM »


dear petz r 4 us

i do hope you are heeding your own judgement here

Whenever a heinous act (or even a positive act, as we consider it) is committed, it is necessary for both parties within said transaction, to experience both sides; as the giver, or inflictor, and as the recipient, or target. 

i have to say that you challenge me in a way that i am not happy with..
so obviously i need to look at myself for an adjustment

i thought i had reached a point where i wasn't bothered by ego attitutes of others  while we are occupying these meat suits.
.but
 your writtings push the envelope with your smug superior wording
that trait  has always pissed me off by the think-they-know-everything-but-have-never-done-anything-but -talk individuals

and i know you will consider this an accolade..believe me..it isn't
so
with this post i find two things are possible since it has finally made me look at it closer
either i need to really work harder at acceptance or you need to hear how you are being precieved
maybe both

your bragging about your drugs trips..i let go as an age difference in exploration
but here
with your obvioius judgement of ALL americans being the lastest nazis
 kinda finished off my tolerance of your written word
yep..i took it personally..that is never a good thing..and i am going to work on that
but
while i think you have some intellengence and decent wordsmanship i don't think you have much else so i am going to do what i hardly ever do and that is give you a tiny piece of advice

get off your do nothing ass and go get a job..and if you can't manage that..maybe make a difference in a real life way instead of living vicariously here where you think you are teaching
BOY YOU ARE PREACHING TO THE CHOIR

ok..i'm done and apolgise to the others who may read this..
and no i am not coming back to do a back and forth.....you go for it if you think you have to
justify anything

 ::)



Offline Littleenki

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Re: Justice Department Drone memo: currently an exclusive
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2013, 10:02:12 AM »
Sky, Im often embarassed to be in this meatsuit, too...whats disturbing is that people who made those asinine laws, are still making babies and raising them in the same vein.

Oh how the ants dont stray far from the hill!

All we can do is sit and watch the insane leadership make equally insane laws, and then execute them to our dismay. What a beautiful planet, with such sick inhabitants for leaders...I have to wonder how the sickest and most insane become the highest paid and most in power....elected by those who clearly see these attributes in them.

What a tragic comedy this entire shooting match has become!

And, now it really is a shooting match..literally.
Hermetically sealed, for your protection

Offline petrus4

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Re: Justice Department Drone memo: currently an exclusive
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2013, 10:15:37 AM »
I am not sure why I'm bothering to reply to this; especially considering that you have said that you will not read said reply.  Perhaps it is simply because, despite your insinuation to the contrary, I am actually willing to offer you an incrementally greater degree of grace, than you have me.


dear petz r 4 us

i do hope you are heeding your own judgement here

Believe it or not, but the thought had occurred to me afterwards that it was necessary to do so, yes.

Quote
i have to say that you challenge me in a way that i am not happy with..
so obviously i need to look at myself for an adjustment

i thought i had reached a point where i wasn't bothered by ego attitutes of others  while we are occupying these meat suits.
.but
 your writtings push the envelope with your smug superior wording
that trait  has always pissed me off by the think-they-know-everything-but-have-never-done-anything-but -talk individuals

That is not the characteristic of mine which truly antagonises you in this case, I do not believe.  I think what really stings in this particular case, is the fact that deep down, in some place which you may not want to look at because of nationalism right now, you know I'm right.  The reason why I say this, is because yours is a characteristic response of Americans when I have written similar things in the past.  They lash out, and they attempt to engage in a total devaluation of me as an individual.  It is a manifestation of nationalistic insecurity and pain in response to what I have said.

[youtube]5j2F4VcBmeo[/youtube]

In reality, you have given me a variation on the above speech; and it is one which I have been given many, many times by Americans online within the last 20 years.  When she is cornered; when she is tied down rhetorically and given nowhere else to go, Jack Nicholson's speech here, archetypically encapsulates America's justification for who and what she is.  It was the ultimate defense given in the film America: World Police.  Said justification is just as hollow and flawed to my ears now, as it was the very first time I heard it.  It is also not a plea that will save her.

I do not, therefore, view it as an accolade, the fact that I have been able to induce an emotional response in you; nor have I been offended by what you have said.  If I had seen this type of response less often, I might be; but as mentioned, it is a response which is extremely repetitive in nature.

Quote
your bragging about your drugs trips..i let go as an age difference in exploration

It wasn't intended as bragging.  I can't remember an instance of having mentioned my drug use, when I haven't considered it relevant to the topic at hand.  I'm also not particularly offended by your negative judgement of me, based on my age.  You are not the first person to engage in such on this forum; and in all honesty, I have done the same when among 20 year olds on 4chan.

Quote
but here
with your obvioius judgement of ALL americans being the lastest nazis

I realised, after writing it, that to a degree I had made an excessive generalisation; but felt that in the interests of honesty, if nothing else, that it should remain unaltered.

Quote
get off your do nothing ass and go get a job..and if you can't manage that..maybe make a difference in a real life way instead of living vicariously here where you think you are teaching

Rule 12, of The Rules of the Internet.

Anything you say, can and will be used against you.

What I say to you here, I have said to others, in other online environments almost too numerous for me to conveniently count at this point, in response to this charge, when it is predictably levelled at me as a last resort, by rhetorical opponents.  The only reason why you know enough about how I live, to be able to make the above statement, is because of the degree of honest disclosure that I am willing to make about myself.  The majority on the Internet, exist in a diametrically opposite manner; they revel in the fact that they are able to hide behind the shield of anonymity; and so they admit as little about themselves as possible.  You are entirely welcome to feel as superior to me due to your own station in life as you would like; this is, again, something that I have encountered to a sufficiently frequent degree, that at this point I am entirely impervious to it.

Quote
and no i am not coming back to do a back and forth.....you go for it if you think you have to
justify anything

I expect nothing else.  Zorgon wrote to me a week or so ago, reprimanding me on the basis of his presumption that I supported the invention of robotic bees.  I wrote him an extensive reply; and received silence in return.  Thorfourwinds has adopted this stance with me on a few occasions, as well.  The pattern is that you are the elders, and authority figures on the basis of your age; and I am merely an ignorant, impetuous upstart who is in need of being brought into line.  No response on my own part is considered necessary, or is desired, because after all, that might hit a nerve to an even greater extent; and we can't have that, now can we?

Seven of Nine: It is puzzling.

Captain Kathryn Janeway: What's that?

Seven of Nine: You made me into an individual. You encouraged me to stop thinking like a member of the Collective, to cultivate my independence and my humanity. But when I try to assert that independence, I am punished.

Captain Kathryn Janeway: Individuality has its limits - especially on a starship where there's a command structure.

Seven of Nine: I believe that you are punishing me because I do not think the way that you do. Because I am not becoming more like you. You claim to respect my individuality. But in fact, you are frightened by it.

Captain Kathryn Janeway: (angrily) As you were.

-- "Prey," Star Trek: Voyager.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2013, 10:24:59 AM by petrus4 »
"Sacred cows make the tastiest hamburgers."
        — Abbie Hoffman

Offline ArMaP

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Re: Justice Department Drone memo: currently an exclusive
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2013, 05:14:28 PM »
Every one of these sorts of measures, has always had one thing in common.  There is always a reassurance given, that none of them will ever be used on Americans.
I agree. :)

From what I remember from the dictatorship times here in Portugal, that was one of the ways to get the people to follow the dictator, to show to the people that they were "special" in some way (usually using patriotism as the connection) and only those that were not "part of the club" would be treated in a different way.

That's why most people thought that the political prisoners were common criminals instead of people that, in some cases, were only guilty of distributing leaflets.

Anyone that allows the removal of someone else's freedoms (real freedoms, like freedom of choice or speech or movement) for some reason doesn't really have a special reason to apply that thinking to just some part of the human race, they can apply it to anyone else.

That's why this doesn't surprise me, a state that isn't bothered by the possible killing of many innocent people if they can kill one or two of their real targets is a state that doesn't care about people, only about their own interests.

 


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