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Author Topic: The Day Before Roswell  (Read 25314 times)

Offline A51Watcher

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Re: The Day Before Roswell
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2011, 10:00:06 PM »
March 30 1947 - Lutz, Florida - 11:00 a.m. EST
Orlando Sentinel Star (Florida) 7/6

Mrs. J. E. Harp, her seven-year-old daughter Sandra, and her mother Mrs. W. H. Brown saw several flying discs while driving.

The discs were silvery colored and seemed to appear and disappear. They did not have time to count the number...


Offline A51Watcher

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Re: The Day Before Roswell
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2011, 10:03:04 PM »

May 5 1947 - Tucson, Arizona


Mrs. H.G. Olavick recalled she witnessed ten flying discs make some curious aerial maneuvers near Tucson.

One of those objects appeared larger than the other nine discs, perhaps as big as 100 feet in diameter.

Viewed with her husband, they both agreed at the time that the discs must be some sort of new high performance military aircraft.

As they watched, the nine smaller craft began "playing around the cloud" in violent aerial maneuvers for about seven minutes as if making mock dogfights.

Finally regrouping in a V formation behind the larger craft, they flew off with tremendous acceleration toward the northeast.

(McDonald, Loedding)

« Last Edit: November 23, 2011, 11:20:21 PM by A51Watcher »

Offline A51Watcher

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Re: The Day Before Roswell
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2011, 10:22:09 PM »

zorgon posted on 10-3-2011

Quote
Originally posted by Gazrok
Presumably, this would indicate where "they" may be from..at least in a spherical distance model. Still a lot of Universe to search, but just thought it was kind of interesting.

How so? Unless atomic blasts set up radiation or particles that travel faster than light, the closest star is 4.5 light years away. So a blast in 1945 would only be a little under half way to Alpha Centauri. And that doesn't even allow time for them to register the signal, plan to check us out and get here  ;D

Here is a star map 50 light years diameter. Our signals from the 60's are just now at the outer rim  :P Even at that most of what we broadcast in the 60's didn't have enough power, so will mostly be just noise



Now if you have proof that atomic blasts produce FTL particles or signals, I am ALL EARS  ;D
« Last Edit: November 23, 2011, 11:21:03 PM by A51Watcher »

Offline A51Watcher

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Re: The Day Before Roswell
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2011, 10:36:49 PM »
zorgon posted on 10-3-2011

Quote
Originally posted by Anunaki10
Once again, you misunderstood something here. Hitler never sent Von Braun to the United States, as he wanted to keep his own scientists. Do you really think that Hitler wanted to send his own scientists to his enemies?  ;D

The reason von Braun defected to the US was because Hitler had ordered all the scientists to be killed. Von Braun was told about this by a friend in the SS. He went to find someone to surrender to and luckily for him the soldier he ran into didn't shoot first and took him to a superior. The operation to get him and the other scientists out was done quickly before the kill squad got there. This is easy to find history.

And yeah VB went to Roswell   ;D as well as Antarctica and he also worked on the US Army SMDC Moon Base project  ;D

Offline A51Watcher

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Re: The Day Before Roswell
« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2011, 10:39:20 PM »

jessejamesxx posted on 10-3-2011

reply to post by zorgon


What if our extra terrestrial friends aren't just from another star system, but another dimension.. or have access to other dimensions? That means they could be from our very own planet, or one close by.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2011, 11:21:42 PM by A51Watcher »

Offline A51Watcher

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Re: The Day Before Roswell
« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2011, 10:46:02 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by Gazrok
reply to post by A51Watcher


Interesting idea... The Trinity test was in June of 1945. Would be interesting to see how far this would have been detectable in space, within two years...as it seems (assuming the UFO flap in 47 was a response to investigate this "coming of age" event)

Presumably, this would indicate where "they" may be from..at least in a spherical distance model. Still a lot of Universe to search, but just thought it was kind of interesting.

The Zeta system is comparatively close, and is mentioned by name in most information regarding this area.
I have seen several comments here regarding this idea, that our first nuclear explosions alerted aliens to our presence. But as zorgon points out "the closest star is 4.5 light years away". He is also aware that evidence indicates aliens have been "visiting" our planet since the beginning, so I think that is what he is driving at.

However I don't think either view precludes the other.
I agree alien presence has been documented since the dawn of man. But perhaps these explosions alerted a new race of aliens to our presence that were previously unaware of our existence.

And how did they detect it from the vast distances zorgon pointed out...
ever been listening to your stereo, and suddenly hear large clicks coming out of the speakers, and when you investigate, you finally discover someone in a different part of the house has been plugging and unplugging some large wattage electrical unit in and out of the socket? This alert was carried by neither the speed of sound or light, but through electrical contacts in a common circuit.
Do aliens use technology that would hear spikes on the atomic level in a shared galaxy?

Early atomic blasts are the biggest easy target to point to when we try to figure out what triggered this massive invasion wave leading up to Roswell. Some also point to the Foo Fighters in WWII as being the actual beginning of the modern UFO invasion. However since these all involved bright lights and not silvery saucer shaped discs, they are by definition a different wave. Perhaps they were remote control drones or probes sent ahead of the discs, or maybe even sent from a different race altogether.

What makes this wave different than any other in history is that -

it is the first time we ever got our hands on one.

This invasion wave now appears to be roughly 10x larger in scope that what my OP showed it to be, turns out it was only the tip of the iceberg. It also now dramatically confirms my suspicion of what locations they were visiting. They made a bee- line for every base and facility with atomic material. Every location on this map comes up in the reports as a target more than once.



Including the site shown in Canada -

"By December 1942 there were concerns that even Oak Ridge was too close to Knoxville, Tennessee in the unlikely but possible event of a major nuclear accident. The Chalk River, Ontario site was established to house the Allied effort that was going on at McGill University at the Montreal Laboratory.
Since the site was 120 miles west of Ottawa, a new community was built at Deep River, Ontario to provide residences and facilities for the team members. The site was chosen for its proximity to the industrial manufacturing of Ontario and Quebec, and access to a rail head adjacent to a large military base, Camp Petawawa. Located on the Ottawa River it had access to abundant water. The first director of the new laboratory was John Cockroft, but he was later replaced by Bennett Lewis. A pilot reactor known ZEEP (Zero-energy experimental pile) became the first Canadian reactor, and the first to be completed outside the United States, when it went critical in September 1945. A larger 10 MW NRX reactor which was designed during the war was completed and went critical in July 1947."

Many sites not on this map but of obvious equal interest were mentioned in the OP, but now includes several more I was unaware of.

So while the public only saw a seemingly scattered wave across the nation,
as the morning status reports came in, the general's eyes bugged out and choked on their coffee as they saw what locations were being "visited" by these craft.

So while atomic capability was -certainly- one of their primary targets, the question if atomic testing is what drew them here...
"is at present unknown, perhaps in six or nine months it may be possible to speak with some precision on the matter."
« Last Edit: November 23, 2011, 11:22:26 PM by A51Watcher »

Offline A51Watcher

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Re: The Day Before Roswell
« Reply #21 on: November 13, 2011, 10:49:34 PM »

Major Donald Keyhoe's conversation with Jet Fighter Pilot (also his personal friend)

re: possibility of 1947 UFO's of Soviet origin

R: "OK... you're flying an F-94 jet, with a radar operator behind you. You're on a routine patrol. Ground Control Intercept calls you. They've got an unknown on their radar, which is a surveillance type, with a longer range than yours. Their tracks show the unknown is making tight turns and speeds too high for any aircraft. So they give you the word—it's a UFO."

"Right then, it stops being an ordinary intercept. Going after a MIG, it's different. You know what you're up against. When you get him in your sights, you're ready to fire. With the saucers, you're on the spot. The orders are to intercept but not to shoot—unless you're sure they're hostile."

(Keyhoe: I knew about that. Major General Roger Ramey, chief of the Air Defense Command, had told me about the instructions.)

R: "How're you going to tell if they're hostile or not?" Riordan said harshly. "Who knows what they—well, anyway, GCI vectors you in. All of a sudden you see a light, circling faster than any plane. Your radar picks it up, too, and you lock on, so you're automatically following the thing. About that time Ground Control calls and says they've got you both on their scope, and the UFO's right where your radar shows it. That does it.
You know the thing's real—not a reflection or a set malfunction."

"It's your job to get in close. Maybe you'll learn something Intelligence doesn't know. So you open up and go on in. The UFO is still circling, or perhaps it's hovering by now, or it's slowed down. If it didn't do one of those things, you'd never get within miles—even at 100 per cent power.

Then it makes a quick turn toward you. You know you've been spotted, and you start getting butterflies in your stomach...
You watch the thing start a tight turn around you. Nobody on earth could take all the gs in that turn. It's so fast you almost twist your neck off, trying to keep it in sight...

One thing's sure, Something with intelligence is in control of the thing, the way it maneuvers. Even if it's remote-controlled, it must have a TV 'eye' or something like that—so you know you're being watched, maybe on a screen a long way off.

...But all you really know is that you're a sitting duck, if whoever's watching you wants to let you have it.
Then the saucer pulls away, so fast you feel like you're standing still.

...people should know all about those UFO intercepts. The way it is, too many of 'em think the saucers are some U. S. secret weapon."

K: "Not so many think so now," I said. "If we'd had anything with that power and speed back in '47, by now they’d be in operating squadrons. We wouldn't be building jets—they'd be completely obsolete. And those remote-controlled types would be perfect guided missiles.
We'd be able to tell Russia where to head in, fast."

R: "I know all that—but you still hear people say the saucers are our secret weapon, so we needn't be afraid of Russia."

K: "Yes, and you'll hear some others say they're Soviet weapons—"

R: That's even crazier, The Reds were barely crawling out of the wreckage of World War II, back in '47. They couldn't possibly have produced the saucers in that short time, even if they'd stumbled on some new method of propulsion.

And even if they could have, they wouldn't be shooting them all over the world, taking a chance one would crash and give away the secret."

K: "You don't have to sell me," I said. "I dropped that answer years ago, "and I don't know anyone in the Pentagon who gives it a serious thought."

R: "Besides, the Reds would own the world now if they'd jumped that far ahead in '47. At least they'd be holding a gun at our heads."
« Last Edit: November 23, 2011, 11:25:01 PM by A51Watcher »

Offline A51Watcher

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Re: The Day Before Roswell
« Reply #22 on: November 13, 2011, 10:55:16 PM »

karl 12 posted on 13-3-2011

Quote
Originally posted by A51Watcher

R: "Besides, the Reds would own the world now if they'd jumped that far ahead in '47. At least they'd be holding a gun at our heads."

A51Watcher, thanks for a very good read. 

Admiral Fahrney didn't think they were Russian either.

Quote
"According to worthy information of faith, in our atmosphere objects arrive at high speed. No aircraft, neither in the United States, either in the Soviet Union is currently able to achieve the speed attributed to these objects from the radars and from the observatories. These objects appear to be driven by an intelligence the way in which they fly. According to reports from scientists and technical personnel, these objects fly in formation and finish manoeuvres that seem to point out that are not completely driven from an automatic equipment. These objects are in incontestable mode the result of long investigations and highly technological and exceptional knowledge."

Admiral S. Fahrney,head of missile testing for the American Navy

http://media.abovetopsecret.com/profile_blogs/karl%2012/&action=view&id=471

Keep up the great work my friend -fascinating stuff.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2011, 11:26:01 PM by A51Watcher »

Offline A51Watcher

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Re: The Day Before Roswell
« Reply #23 on: November 13, 2011, 11:05:18 PM »
posted on 19-3-2011 @ 09:27 PM   

Here is one that never made it to the newspapers or Bluebook, from NUFORC:
(National UFO Reporting Center)

June 13 1947

NUFORC Sighting Report


Location: Oakmont, PA

A very brillant blue-white object coming towards us lowering above us and hovering over us a few minutes before shooting straight up.


A few days after we returned from attending my Grandmother's funeral in North Carolina, my husband and I decided to walk down the dirt road leading to my parents home near the Allegheny River. The road cut through nearly thirteen acres of corn and vegetables owned by an elderly couple who raised produced for sale. About half way down the road was a little shanty they called their "gardenhouse" where they cleaned and prepared their produce for market.

As we approached the shanty, we met the elderly woman coming up the road, heading for her home on the edge of town. We stopped to talk, she wanted to express her sympathies and to ask about the funeral. My husband and I were facing north, the woman facing us, as we talked. We noticed a small bright light coming toward us out of the north. It was moving very slowly, made no sound, but coming down, growing larger and brighter as it decended.

The old woman saw the look on our faces, so she turned and looked up. By this time it was very large and a very brilliant blue-white. The old woman fell to her knees, muttering something in her native tongue, Italian, and "crossing" herself. We were paralyzed with fear! Suddenly, after hovering for a few minutes, motionless, it began to go around in wide circles, then shot straight up into the sky, lightening fast and disappeared. The woman ran up the road to her home.

My husband and I ran to my parents' home, where my husband called the Observatory in Pittsburgh to ask what this "thing" was. They could not give an explanation, but that it "could not have been a plane or weather balloon, nor any invention existing at that time that could have done what this object did."

A few weeks later, reports started coming in on radio news about people in the west seeing strange things in the sky. Some were calling them "flying saucers" and "UFO's," and some were wondering if some other country had invented some kind of new scientific weapon.

We never completely got over our fright and have watched the sky ever since. My husband had been in the Navy in the war. We have seen many natural things, such as meteorites, northern lights and man- made objects, but never have seen anything to compare to what we saw that evening.


Offline A51Watcher

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Re: The Day Before Roswell
« Reply #24 on: November 13, 2011, 11:25:29 PM »

posted on 18-4-2011

I just made an interesting find while researching the Top 10 tourist destinations for UFO's during 1947.

As mentioned previously, I noted with interest all the TS bases and facilities the UFO's made a beeline for, one of which was Richland, Washington.







Which was home to The Hanford Engineer Works, where plutonium was produced for The Manhattan Project, so we can certainly understand the popularity for curious visitors.



Located conveniantly on the edge of the Columbia river, for easy access to coolant water:





Yes those are the same "cooling pools" that Japan has been having such a problem with recently.


And so while hunting for early history pictures of the site, I found some photographs made the old- school way:



using a dark room,



and chemicals and film



and then from The Hanford Declassifiied Document Retrieval System,
I found these official photographs, showing construction of The B Reactor:



and also, how they turned this:



into this:



(worker housing area)



Too bad that first picture had some dirt on it though, it seemed to be nice high resoultion.

Lets take a look at that again, and zoom in on some of that dirt.



That white area in the sky certainly looks odd, almost as if someone tried to erase something.



Oh well, let's look closer at that dirt:



Now isn't that odd?... saucer shaped dirt!


Now I wonder what was orginally in that white area, where perhaps someone tried to rub off some of that dirt. Let's darken it up a bit and see what appears...





Hmmm... appears to be more saucer shaped dirt.


And zooming further appears to show a companion much further up:



The only further information available about this photo says "Image #N1D0024128 - View of the Hanford site from Rattlesnake Mountain."



Hmm... That "dirt" in the sky looks somehow similar to a few pictures also taken in 1947 by William Rhodes:





July 7 - Phoenix, Arizona - Dusk

PHOENIX REPUBLIC (Arizona) 7/9
USAF FILES


William Rhodes, heard a "whoosh" overhead. Looking up, he expected to see a P-80 jet,
instead, he saw a dark, heel-shaped object coming in from the west.

It circled and banked at about 1,000 feet over his home. Rhodes grabbed his camera and as
the object banked in a tight circle for the second time, he took his first photograph.

As it circled once again at moderate speed, he took another shot.

Other than the initial "whoosh," which had caught his attention, there was no sound.
Following its final maneuver the object took off at high speed to the southwest.



It sure seems that there was an awful lot of swamp gas, temperature inversions and weather balloons flying around in the sky in 1947!  8)

« Last Edit: November 23, 2011, 11:27:43 PM by A51Watcher »

Offline A51Watcher

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Re: The Day Before Roswell
« Reply #25 on: November 13, 2011, 11:28:36 PM »
Condemned0625 posted on 18-4-2011

reply to post by A51Watcher


Your investigative work never ceases to amaze me. So many "coincidences" in 1947, but there must be a logical explanation for it all! -Denies all evidence- Swamp gas! It must have been swamp gas!

Offline A51Watcher

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Re: The Day Before Roswell
« Reply #26 on: November 13, 2011, 11:30:48 PM »

posted on 18-4-2011
reply to post by Condemned0625


Hah!   

Personally I'm going to go with chunks of french bread dropped in the darkroom on this one.  ;) 

But actually in looking at the darkened version of the whole photo, I am now wondering if this was not the whole reason for the photo being taken in the first place. We see a large round indentation on the ground that appears to be -steaming-? And above that 3 unknown 'objects'.

The size of the original photo is like 20" x 15". So those must have been some pretty good size chunks of bread!


Anyway that just popped up while working on another project regarding popular destinations in 1947. At first look I almost let it go for another time until the current project is complete, but after taking a second look with the zooms, and then the darkened version I just couldn't resist being sidetracked for a minute.  ;D

« Last Edit: November 23, 2011, 11:28:21 PM by A51Watcher »

Offline A51Watcher

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Re: The Day Before Roswell
« Reply #27 on: November 13, 2011, 11:34:03 PM »

posted on 20-4-2011

That darkened version of that photo I found shown above is kind of creepy if you think about what was under that circular depression on the ground, that is shown 'steaming' (just like those 'cooling ponds' shown in the photo even above that one.)



No wonder those discs were caught coming in for a look, like 'check this out, look what these idiots are doing with this stuff!"

« Last Edit: November 23, 2011, 11:28:49 PM by A51Watcher »

Offline A51Watcher

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Re: The Day Before Roswell
« Reply #28 on: November 13, 2011, 11:38:57 PM »
posted on 21-4-2011

Imagine my surprise when I discovered that another top 10 destination was -Oak Ridge, TN.-

In fact the map I am now creating showing the top destinations is a real eye opener.
 
While Hanford and Oak Ridge are fairly well known (these days) as obvious targets of interest, many others were not well known to me, and as I started researching those areas, now- declassified information makes it easy to see why they were chosen.

For example I come across a 1947 sighting in Chalk River, Ontario.
Never heard of the place... did a quick check on it and -gulp-!  :o


Offline A51Watcher

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Re: The Day Before Roswell
« Reply #29 on: November 13, 2011, 11:43:44 PM »
posted on 21-4-2011

... or how about The White Sands Proving Grounds, New Mexico, whose location should be of obvious interest:



June 29 1947 - White Sands, New Mexico - 1:30 P.M. MST

EVENING STAR (Washington, DC) 7/9


Saucer Seen By Rocket Expert, Flight Over Desert Described


Three naval research scientists involved in guided missile development were all in a car headed northeast down Route 17 to the White Sands proving grounds to examine a launching site for a July 3rd V-2 test, when they had their attention drawn upward by a flash.

All three men, and Curtis Rockwood's wife who was in the car, observed "a silvery disc whirling through the unclouded sky."

John Kauke was driving and became so overwhelmed by the sight that he stopped the car.

They then estimated the disc's altitude between 8,000 and 10,000 feet and were especially attracted by its bright surface.

They agreed its shape appeared elliptical and flat.

Dr. Zohn, a well-known rocket expert, stated that the object did not look like any rocket he had ever seen and that it could not have been a balloon.

(Dr. C.J. Zohn reported their observation to Army Intelligence with supporting testimony from fellow scientists Curtis C. Rockwood and John R. Kauke.)


(So not only was the Trinity site of interest, so was the current delivery systems (V-2 launch) available for such material.)


Also this report from Major Donald Keyhoe:

July 8 at Muroc Air Force Base, where TS planes and devices are tested, six fast moving silvery-white saucers were seen by pilots and ground officers.

Both a Navy rocket expert (Dr. Robert B. McLaughlin) and an engineer (Charles B. Moore) who were there, each independently reported the same incident at White Sands where they had seen four saucers in that area.

The first saucer was tracked by White Sands observers with a theodolite. Then they worked out it's performance with ballistics
formulas as being fifty miles up and making over fifteen thousand mph.  :o



Imagine the look on the face of the Pentagon generals as they sat down to their daily morning reports, and their eyes bugged out and choked on their coffee as they saw what locations all the flying disc's were showing up at each day!  ;D


 


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