Author Topic: SO... you need MONEY?  (Read 9314 times)

Offline zorgon

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SO... you need MONEY?
« on: November 17, 2012, 02:34:54 PM »
SO... you need MONEY?

Okay I have been trying to get time to write this thread for WEEKS now so instead what I will do is do it a post at a time and lock the thread till I am done :D

The solutions, tricks and ideas I will present are ones that I have used over the years that work, and tricks I have learned from those that have...

Now before I start a little about me and my current situation.

All my life I have been independent... never had a boss save for the few small jobs during high school and shortly after.

I learned one lesson early... that working for someone else will NEVER get you what you want, or make you rich.

Now you will say its not easy to start your own business... all the fees , permits, startup costs etc etc etc.

Well I will take this a few steps at a time and show you how it can be done.

Working for yourself doesn't mean you will be rolling in money, it simply means you are more in control of your situation. And have no one to blame but yourself if you fail :P

Some of what I show you will not work for everyone, but some tricks DO work for everyone, so bear with me and take the time to look at what I show you and try it before you say, "It doesn't work" :P

There are THREE main enemies to making money, and these are easily vanquished


At various times in my life I have been guilty of all of the above. In fact my current situation has left me short of cash because I got lazy and procrastinated setting up my online store and didn't focus on that instead of spending 6 years posting on forums in my free time.

At the time I had a great gig, contractor to convention work that paid very well (32.50 per hour straight time and time and a half after 10 pm and weekends) It was union work and you could pick and chose your contracts and how much work you wanted or didn't want. Had great medical coverage

So I didn't worry about things, the money was good in the on season and UI covered those weeks when things were slow...

But I didn't count on getting medical issues that changed all that. I have stasis, a disease of the veins that stops blood returning from the legs... it has no cure currently. On top of that I picked up a skin bug after hernia surgery that they cannot identify and it is painful, unsightly and very distracting.

So the legs are at the point I cannot do that heavy work at the conventions anymore and had to retire. It just wouldn't be safe for me and others I work with if legs give out while on a ladder

Needless to say, once you leave that job, you lose the medical.

Then my wife lost her job and has only managed to find sporadic jobs of less than 20 hours a week. daughter is still at home taking college classes and has a part time job... that helps a bit.

But our monthly bills with mortgage and utilities run around 1800.00 not counting food etc.

So the current situation for us is bad... and then the car gave out  :o

There is a pension from the union, but I was only doing that for 10 years so its not big. Will qualify for Canadian pension this year ( I maxed that out before moving to the US. and I can take the US pension early in 1 more year (when I hit 62)  so I am not worried.

Now sure one could say I could sell the house and downsize... but why should I? I worked hard to get it and besides in the current market that would be a BAD idea as the current value is less than the mortgage... a situation many home owners are in today

So the savings are dwindling... its time to stop being lazy and procrastinating and focus on what I need to do.

Several members have donated to keep Pegasus alive... and that is much appreciated. I still need to fix it so we don't have issues anymore but there is no rush at the moment. As long as we keep the doors open, all things will eventually turn around

One thing is certain. The current situation with the economy has to change. It will either CRASH and BURN and a new system will be put in place, or they will have to fix the one we have.

So that said... let's look at the solutions. I am going to start with some small ones that may seem silly to some, but trust me... THEY WORK.

If you have NOTHING then even an extra $20.00 will be of use

Then I will post a few tips on fixing bad credit. Years ago we paid $1,000.00 for a course on just that (amongst other things) I will share those tricks and tips... and if you find the value in those and they help you with your mess, well Las Vegas has a tradition of tipping those that helped you get the winnings :D

Yeah okay that was shameless self promotion :P But then this IS about MAKING MONEY after all

Now I know many others will have other ideas... but I am going to be frank here..

SHUT UP AND LISTEN FIRST... it comes down to FOCUS... because f everyone is throwing out ideas no one is paying attention to anything and just adding to the noise. If after reading you have something useful to add, PM me and I will add it with credit

So... let's begin

Offline zorgon

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Re: SO... you need MONEY?
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2012, 03:09:20 PM »

If you have a house you can do this easily and for a substantial profit.

Collect scrap metal.  Look around your area on garbage night. Don't be proud you need the cash. There is no dishonor in recycling.

So lets break it down....


In California there are kiosks in shopping centers where you can take plastic bottles and aluminum cans and put them in. You get a ticket that you can cash at the grocery store (or use to buy food)

Back in Canada there was a 10 cent deposit on beer bottles. The construction workers )mostly Italian) drank beer for lunch, put the bottles into the case for safety, and left them. I used to pay my gas and lunches just taking a minute to toss them in the back of the truck while doing my installations

Plastic bottles have a refund of 5 cents each. I see Mexicans here in Vegas pulling them out of recycle bins and take them to Ca. to turn in.

Most bottles show the states that have refunds. Its not a lot BUT it cleans the environment and gives you extra cash.

If you have space and time, then it can pay. We should make a lobby to have all states use a bottle refund. That would help stop the trash being tossed out the car window and allow others to collect it for a profit.

I personally let the County have all our plastic... but if you live in a state that pays that refund like Ca, you are throwing money away


Aluminum cans are currently going for .55 cents a pound at the scrap yard. So is CLEAN ALUMINUM.  When we had our Renaissance Guild running we used to ask friends and neighbors to save their cans... Scout groups do it as well. You would be amazed at how much that adds up in a short time for very little effort

It's FREE MONEY... no taxes

ALUMINUM CLEAN  .55 cents a lb

This is aluminum without iron. So when people throw out old window frames. chairs, etc you collect them and take the time to remove the bolts. Aluminum is light but still adds up quickly. I have several bins at the side of the house where I toss the brass, cooper, wires and aluminun. When they are full I take them in. Takes very little time.

If your too lazy (#3 :P ) you can leave the iron in and get .35 cents a lb for 'Dirty Aluminum'

COPPER CLEAN $2.90 a pound

Ends of pipes, scraps of wire stripped of insulation, old plumbing, etc. Clean copper is very heavy and a cubing foot box of copper will net you around $200.00 or so at today's scrap value. Last time at the yard a guy had a small bucket of pipe ends and he got $89.00

"Dirty Copper' is copper that has a lot of solder in it so take the time to trim it. It pays. Also heavy wire is worth the time to strip the insulation

COPPER Insulated wire  $1.10 per lb

Old cords, telephone wire, etc. that is too much bother to strip still has weight and value. At conventions we had to clean up after the events so all the computer wire etc we had to pick up anyway


BRASS...$1.50-$1.80 per lb

Most plumbing parts, taps, faucets etc are brass. Old trinkets and vases etc  all brass. Brass is also heavy. A small amount still pays


They contain lead... they fetch about $7.00 each


Until recently iron was relatively cheap so yu needed a lot to make any money, but today I see the Mexicans out every garbage night picking up any old iron. Bed frames, chairs old barbeques, what have you.

Iron does not need to be cleaned... you can leave the seats on chairs etc. They don't care.  Guy across the street threw out some old fence sections. I loaded them on the truck, a small load, had a bit of copper and aluminum and came home with $186.50 cash

Iron is currently going at $180.00 a TON  That means $9.00 for every 100 lbs. Iron is heavy... 100 lbs is not a lot. You need space and/or a trailer. When its full just run it up to the scrap dealer

One thing you will need to learn is how to identify metal.  best tool is a magnet. If the magnet sticks, toss it in the iron pile... if not its worth money :D  Stainless steel also has good value but most people don't see much of that

So start collecting that scrap. When I was doing alarm installation on construction sites I kept a bucket with me and picked up all the cuttings of electrical wire, low voltage wire and pipe parts. On occasion I was there when they trimmed the aluminum siding and had it on a trash pile

I made several thousand extra a year doing this... all tax free money

Today Mexicans are actually stealing wire and scrap... even pulling it out of lamp posts, because it has that much value

My vehicle being down right now puts a crimp into my scrounging but that is only temporary :D

Offline zorgon

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Re: SO... you need MONEY?
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2012, 03:47:50 PM »
RECYCLE (Other than Scrap)

On those trash days you will also find many people toss out stuff that is not metal. Old furniture, picture frames, an old kids swimming pool etc. Especially when people are MOVING

My dad loved to work on old furniture and restore it as a hobby. On Saturday my mom set up at Swap/Antique/Collectable meet and sold the stuff. Later I will give examples on just how much you can make with a little skill and a little knowledge.  But for now they averaged $800.00 a week

When people move they toss out tons of stuff that they don't want to drag with them. Just yesterday a renter across the street moved out. He left a lot of scrap metal and some lumber. He also had boxes of dishes... Below is a picture of an antique silver tray with crystal inserts that was in that box..

He also tossed out a 10x10 easyup tent in its carry case and a kids swimming pool with air pump

So that's a couple hundred buck right there. Keeping the tent :D and listed the pool on Craigslist

An old lady around the corner from me is crippled and lives in a wheelchair. She and her sister do weekly yard sales. No one bothers her about that because she is making money to pay her bills only way she can.

People donate her stuff all the time. I buy stuff from her and can list it at Ebay and Etsy. Picked up a nice antique sofa from her that fits my Medieval/Victorian decor for $35.00. Someone tossed it out. Its a huge piece with printed velvet and wood framing comfortable as hell... just needed steam cleaning and a little touch up on the wood trim

So YARD SALES are a great way to make money. Its all FREE CASH and its easy to ask friends ans neigbours if they have stuff they don't want. Most people cannot be bothered with taking the time to make a sale... they just toss it or give it to charity orgs


I helped out at a charity story.. Opportunity Village, here in Las Vegas. That outfit gave us much in return for our help in the way of fabric, costumes and period pieces for the Medieval group. In return we helped them raise MILLIONS

But there was a standing order at the stores that anything costume related came though me first. So that was one way we outfitted our group with NO MONEY.  Nost of the things we needed where not what most people buy anyway..

But here is a point to ponder..

We had THREE 5 ton trucks picking up stuff DAILY from donors. We also had a huge industrial dumpster out back that we filled almost weekly on stuff that just was tossed ( I finally convinced them to make one dumpster for scrap metal... exercise equipment that never sold, old fridges and stoves etc) The dumster cost $900.00 a load to empty.

So the point is be picky about what you donate... not all can be sold and they get SO MUCH it has to be tossed eventually

I once ran a manger's sale on sofa's. Let yen go cheap. I was chastised for it at first... BUT the floor was full, the back room was full and the yard was full and there were more on the trucks. End result my sale was a record breaker manager special and we still had to many sofa's to display

So there is a LOT of stuff out there to be had for free that you can ask people for and resell. If your in an apartment, think small stuff that you can list on Craigslist, Etsy or Ebay

Yes it requires some effort :D  That is why I have been away from the forum since the crash. I really need to get my web store up and running. I have listings at several places now, like Craigslist, Etsy Ebay and Amazon. Some items sell better at some places. There are more options, like auction houses and Ruby lane for example if you have better stuff. More on that later

I have always been a scrounger... or 'picker' I studied the antique and collectable books so I would know when something was worth something

Here is a vase I picked up cheap at a yard sale;

So stay tuned for more selling tips :D

Offline zorgon

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Re: SO... you need MONEY?
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2012, 04:10:08 PM »

When we purchased our house in 2000, we still had many outstanding debts.. some business related, a car repo ( we had to dump it so had no way out but to let them repo) and the usual credit cards etc...

The company that did the mortgage for us did all the work... but here is what he did...

Debts, especially older ones, are a curious thing...

Once the ORIGINAL company that you owed has sold your debt to a collection agency, the debt as far as they are concerned is a write off.  And you no longer owe that company. In fact if you then try to pay it you will find you cannot.

A judge once made a speech in a small claims courts before starting. He basically told the debtors that it is THEIR fault that they are her. Yes the debtee owes you that money, but you should have made sure he could pay you back before you gave it to him.. In one case the debtee said he could pay $100.00 a month... the judge looked at his papers and said, "No, you cannot handle that much... you will pay 25.00 a month... next case!"

One of our business depts leaving Canada was with Exxon... gas for the fleet of cars we had in the business. It was $3,500... We got a call from the company... a pleasant lady who asked if the business was still running. We said no. Before we said we could make arrangements she said okay thanks, I will just pass that along and we can write it off.

Seems big corporations NEED write offs :D

Once the debt has been sold off to a collection agency at a discount, the collection agency attempts to collect that money. What most people don't know is that you don't owe the collection agency a dime. They have no contract with you.

So when they call, just ignore them. IF you talk to them and admit you owe that money, you have then contracted with them. If you don't return that call they can do nothing but pester you, within certain hours.

What then happens is that agency at the end of the year will sell off uncollected accounts to another party, at a very reduced rate and THEY will now try.

So leave your machine on voice mail and screen your calls :D

Now then back to the mortgage...

The agent contacted all three credit reporting agencies. He demanded a list of debts.

Once we had that list he challenged them ALL. This is YOUR RIGHT...

once the challenge is issues, the credit agency has 60 days to verify you owe that money from the ORIGINAL source.  If they cannot do this, BY LAW they have to remove it.

So in the end 75% of listed items on our report just VANISHED as those companies who had sold off that original debt no longer cared or even had records, so didn't respond to the challenge. Of the 25% that were left... ALL of them settled for 50% or less.

So when we signed that mortgage.. ALL old debt was cleared off.. at a total cost to us of about $2,500  which he added to the mortgage as we were tight on that down payment :D

THIS is one of the biggest secrets that THEY have that the average person never finds out about...

That once a debt has been written off, you are LEGALLY off the hook, even if ethically you know you owe it :D

In any case, once its passed to the collection agency you do NOT OWE THEM. If you want to pay to ease your conscience, then contact the original guy and see if they still want it. Most will tell you that they have no record of it (unless its ab active account of course)

Offline zorgon

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Re: SO... you need MONEY?
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2012, 04:47:09 PM »

The following method is GUARANTEED... BUT it requires that you have two things;

1) a small steady income
2) power of will

We learned this secret also from that $1000 course we took. It involves CREDIT CARDS. This is PERFECTLY LEGAL and can be used to buy things like a house once you learn how to do it...

You can use literally a thousand cards for this, but to keep it simple for the average reader I am going to use 10. 10 is easily manageable and more than enough to fix credit.

The fellow who taught the course has a shoe box full of cards and uses them to buy foreclosed houses or tax sales.  I will tell you how later but that is at the top of the scale.

Right now we want to fix your current credit...

what you need is $500.00 cash, a small steady income so you can afford about $80.00 a month payments and a strong will. If you don't have a strong will, you need a friend :D

here is how it works.

Take the 500 to Bank 1... deposit the money in a new account (find accounts that have no service charges Wells Fargo has one cheap on that is $5.00 a month as example.

When you have that money deposited you apply for a SECURED credit card. and use that 500 as security for the card.  They will want to offer you a $750.00 line of credit for that $500.00

DO NOT TAKE IT so you are covered, tell them you only need 500 credit, so that you are covered by that cash. They will give it to you as they have nothing to lose. AND NEITHER DO YOU because if you default on payments it will all cancel each other out anyway (save the original 500) If your sure you can handle this by all means take the 750. Your not going to actually USE it now anyway.

At this point you have one secured card... so even if you only use this to GET a credit card, you are already ahead.

Now here is where it gets fun.

Take that card and go to an ATM machine and take out $500.00 cash advance  :o ;D.  Then put that card away in a safe, or give it to a friend so you CANNOT USE IT.

Take THAT $500.00 cash to BANK 2 and do the same thing again...

Do this with 10 banks. At the end of the day you will have;

1) Ten bank accounts with $500.00 each in the account ($5000.00)
2) Ten Credit cards each with a $500.00 limit ($5000.00)

Now then  yes its only digital money at this point BUT next application you fill out you use those ten as credit reference. The banks are legally NOT allowed to give amounts or that your line of credit is maxed out... they can only says Yes you have that credit and yes you are in good standing (current)

Here is where the small income is important. You need to pay that small minimum payment on each of those ten cards.  On $500.00 that minimum payment is small. If you can, see that you put a little more in than minimum with the goal that in ONE YEAR those ten cards are paid off

DO NOT USE THEM until that year is up. This is important.  This is where the strong will or that friend come in handy. You can even cut up the cards (you can always replace them later)

So at the end of that year you will have that $5000.00 cash in those accounts. You will also find that after a year of on time payments on those cards, they will after 12 months become UNSECURED and the credit limit will double  So you will have 'forced savings' of 5000.00 and a credit line of $10,000 after just one year

So how does this work at the top?

Well the guy who taught this takes his shoe box to ATM machines... takes out $500.00 from each card (60 cards and he has $30,000 cash) then he buys a piece of real estate that he knows he can resell quickly (usually a tax sale or a bank foreclosure.

Real estate laws are such that you can put an offer on a property and thus lock it in for up to 90 days without actually paying for it.  If you sell it in that time you never actually touch your money at all.  But he buys the deals, then resells them for a relatively SMALL profit to move it fast  and pays off the cards

Everyone is happy, the banks, the credit card companies and the guy doing it. If he uses that cash to buy a property from someone in trouble, that person walks away with some cash rather than losing his shirt and everyone is happy

This is called


You are using the banks money to build YOUR credit  within their own rules... nothing illegal or unethical. It only requires patience a small INITIAL start up cost and a strong will

Offline zorgon

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Re: SO... you need MONEY?
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2012, 05:04:23 PM »

Now all these secrets can be used to just get by or to get rich. How far you take it is up to you. Its all about what you want and how much effort you put into it.

I never had any need to be rich... but I now look back and see I should have put a little more effort into it for later  (later being now when I could use that extra edge)  You never think you will be hit, but yup  sh!t happens to us all.

There is another way to establish credit  for those with a little more capital. Its TERM DEPOSITS. Well that is what they called it in Canada  I think it has other names down here

Point is you take a few thousand, put them into a secure account and then assign that amount to back a line of credit. Same deal as the cards really, only at a higher level.

When we first did this in Toronto, at the time the minimum deposit was 5,000. Not always easy to get that much that you don't need

But once we set up that account you can write checks on it up to that 5,000 amount. The thing was you paid interest on the remaining balance each month at premium rate because your 'loan' was secured by cash. At the same time your cash still earned interest

So say you had a business... you use that money at the beginning of the month but by the end of the month you have made deposits again  So you only pay interest on the outstanding balance.

So if you did it right you have 29 days a month you can use their money free.  Then we got one check for 4,200 and as I deposited it, I casually mentioned its a shame it wasn't 5G so I could open a second term deposit. Teller said no problem, just write a check for the 800 and we can set that up right now

Here in Vegas we did that at a Credit Union... limit there was only 2,000. We had a limit of 15,000 before all things fell apart in the project, but it is doable :D

Offline zorgon

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Re: SO... you need MONEY?
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2012, 05:25:42 PM »

Okay lets get out of the world of banks for the next step.

Many of you here seek funding, be it for schooling, personal health issues or major research projects. There are TONS of options out there

All kinds of government programs, all kinds of corporations and all kinds of philanthropists just giving money away.

Why don't YOU have it?  Simple  Most people do not know WHERE to LOOK or HOW TO ASK.

When we attempted to start our major project, we found out all about funding and what needs to happen. There are many names for it like Venture Capital for example.  That is at the top end for major projects like a Theme Park...

Then there are the local small fund raising options like those chocolate bars the schools sell so your kid can go on a trip.

So lest start with one that really works  and costs you nothing. You will need

1) a computer
2) friends and contacts

My wife, procrastinator extraordinaire and uber skeptic about just about everything :P finally tried it and got a few hundred in the first few days

How to Raise Money Online

Here is one example I picked SPECIFICALLY because it seems frivolous, but there are many categories  Arts, medical etc.

Greetings, citizens of the internet! My name is Alwin and I'm in a pickle. For close to half a year now, my computer has been broken. It randomly crashes, reboots, sometimes even rebooting while rebooting.

The motherboard, RAM, processor coolant, power supply unit, and graphics card have all been replaced, without success. I am currently on disablity benefits and have no realistic means to save money for a new computer.

It feels odd, asking others to help fund a new computer. It still very much feels like a luxury product. But when I think about it, to me, it is not.

1: I am currently unemployed and I want a job. The best way for me to do so is by looking for jobs online. But when I can't reliably use my computer to look and apply for jobs, that hinders my chances to get out of this situation a lot.

2: My computer is my primary means of social interaction. I don't go out much. Most of my friends live out of town or even in different countries. Without a proper way to communicate with them, I fall into a social gap. Social interaction is awkward enough for me as it is, I do not need a broken computer complicating things.

3: I need a creative outlet. I love to write, hence the way my rewards for funders are set up. But without a proper computer, I can't write. Not if I am constantly stressing whether or not my computer will crash and lose all my progress.

4: Games. Yes, games. Entertainment for some, a means to deal with life for me. For someone with aspergers, life can be pretty overwhelming. Changes you have no control over, irrational behaviour from people, it can all be very overwhelming. Ever since I was a kid, I learned that playing videogames helped me calm down and cope with the world just a little bit better. It also provided huge social interaction opportunities for me, when playing games with others. Without the means to play games with others, I fall into a social vacuum. Might sound a bit odd, but it is true none the less.

Now, what are you funding exactly? Well, I found this computer which fits all my needs

It is of a reasonable price, up to date so it will not need upgrading anytime soon and it has a 2 year warranty. With this computer I will be ready to go for years to come. It will provide me with everything I need to get a job, write stories, columns, keep my social life active, etcetera.

In conclusion, I hope I am not asking for too much. Any donation will help and every donation is appreciated fully. Thank you for your time and have a nice day!

Okay so..

671€ (euro) raised by 18 people in 13 days.

The website is GOFUNDME

I plan to put up a request to help get a reliable vehicle, doesn't need to be new. I will do that later today.

You can ask for tuition, personal assistance, anything you want. It requires you tweeting it and promoting it to anyone that will listen... but its well worth a shot. Just browse through the categories and see the ongoing results

One girl asked for 890.00 for one year of cello lessons... she got 3,200


« Last Edit: January 06, 2013, 03:03:07 AM by zorgon »

Offline zorgon

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Re: SO... you need MONEY?
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2012, 05:45:35 PM »
Fund & Follow Creativity  Kick Starter

Now for those bigger projects that you need to get off the ground...

Kick Starter

Categories (not limited to these)

    Film & Video

Technology would be good for all you inventors out there needing some funding to kick start those free energy devices :P

Again let me pick one that is seemingly frivolous in the grand scheme of things just to illustrate the possibilities

This one asked for funding to redesign a deck of PLAYING CARDS. This is not the original one I saw before and I see there are several similar projects..

Vända - playing cards redesigned

An innovative playing card deck design unlike anything you've ever seen!

The Vända deck has been in the works for several months now and I've addressed every tiny detail involved in redesigning a deck of playing cards from scratch. The result is a simply stunning card deck that handles smoothly and boldly stands out from any playing cards you've seen before.

It is now available in both CRIMSON EDITION (white deck) and GOLDEN EDITION (black deck). The GOLDEN EDITION will be printed will gold and silver metallic inks and is limited to 2500 decks only so it may not be available once this project ends!

Okay so...

Original Target Goal  $15,000
Launched: Sep 9, 2012
Funding ended: Oct 7, 2012

Results: 742 Backers
$27,553 pledged of $15,000 goal


Well you have the same results? No guarantees but peruse the other people there and see their results. What have you got to lose?

The Internet is full of places to get funding for specific things, you simply need to search for ones that are relative to your situation.

Offline zorgon

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Re: SO... you need MONEY?
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2012, 06:16:00 PM »

No matter what the economy is like or which party is ruling, there are always MANY government grant programs available... to the tune of SEVERAL BILLIONS DOLLARS annually.

The problem is they are not advertised so its quite a job to find them.

And once you do find them , you have to know the proper 'language' to access the funds.

The best way to do that is find a professional fund raiser. These people get a 'finders fee' of usually 10% (a commission really but you cannot call it a commission :P )

These fund raisers exist at many levels from small local funding to big major projects.

There are funds available for schooling, for arts you name it but you have to find it. Soem people sell access to such information. Not needed but it can make it faster and easier.

back when we worked on the project BEFORE we had the three deaths that killed us literally, I had such a book that listed all the foundations, what they gave money for and in what order with how much they gave annually and how and where to apply.

For the project I still have a paper that will be good for $200 million, once we raise the 10 million based on our original outlay. It was really very simple because the idea was more than sound and is still viable today (even more so now) if I had a new team to try again. 10 million (5%) is an UNHEARD OF venture capital deal especially to an unknown... our plan was just that good

But you cannot do all this yourself... you need an active team that shares a dream. When they die off its hard to keep the flames going  :'(

Both my wife and daughter found funding to allow them to take online courses, my wife is almost finished A BS in business human resources and my daughter is taking computer arts for gaming. Some of it is in student loans, but most is funding from various foundations, and the schools put in the apps for you, saving you the trouble.

Look on the internet, here is one current headline

:Obama's Grant Giveaway - Obama Is Giving Out $15 Billion.:

U.S. Government Grants & Funding Resources

Business and Financial Resources

2012 Online Grants - You May Qualify for a Grant

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Offline zorgon

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Re: SO... you need MONEY?
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2012, 06:58:53 PM »

Well you all know about Ebay... but they are not the only game in town. Many people don't like shopping Ebay and waiting for auctions that they may lose or pay more than they want to.

These people will shop other venues, but online shopping/selling,  DESPITE currently high shipping prices is a very good way to make money.

And you can do it at any level you are comfortable with.

Some examples


Craigslist is a local listing that is FREE for non commercial listings. There is zero setup fee and zero percentage for listing.  Since its local people come to you to pick it up and pay cash...

Craigslist is great for big heavy items and older odd stuff that you might sell at a yard sale, but not good enough for Ebay, or too expensive to ship


Etsy is a store front, not an auction. They allow three types of goods

1) vintage 20 years or older) (that covers all my stuff :P INC rocks, fossils and seashells
2) hand made goods and crafts
3) craft supplies and tools

They charge .20cents per listing and the list stays active for 45 days or till its sold. You pay a very small percentage when you sell.  They bill feed monthly

I have picked up stuff at a yard sale for a few bucks and resold it at Etsy for a d\good some. Even got a bottle of perfume on Ebay for 4.00 that sold right away on Etsy for 22.00.  Its all a question of who see what where


Amazon now sells just about everything. They also allow you to sell your stuff. You can click on the "Have one to sell?" button and list yours and select a lower price to get yours sold first. I found by looking that some items I had actually fetched better money at Amazon than on Ebay.

Amazon does not charge you listing fee and the listing stays till its sold or you remove it and you can edit the price etc. Amazon also collects shipping (sometimes its not enough so watch that in your pricing)

One example  I had a pocket book that for some reason was listed at Amazon at 6.95 used. It was a bit tattered but I just sold it this week  So 6.95 with 3.99 shipping. Cost 1.38 first class mail. I might have got .10 cents, .25 if lucky, at a yard sale

So you have to take the time to find the best place to list your stuff

Those are a few examples... Ebay you all know. But look around because there are many sites geared to specific target audiences and sometime listing with them will get you more money

I have been working the past few weeks on getting my shop online. For most of my life my family and I have been scroungers and pickers and have learned how to spot a good deal.  Over the years from various books and visits to antique shops, and selling at markets and shows, you get a feel for what sells.

Effectively, from a collection point of view, one could say I am rich. But today most sales are via the internet, so all those items need to be photographed, listed on a webpage and a price tag created to link to a shopping cart.

VERY tedious and time consuming... and each piece you need to research because values have changed over the years

Ebay is great to sell, but it also kills the collector market, because when you have an item of value, someone else sees it and says :Hey I have one of those in the garage!" and undercuts you.

However the internet now makes it easier to research stuff and fine true value.  A lot of stuff I thought would be worth something, now is worthless due to to many available... but many other items, I was literally shocked to see what they sold for today

So I have "STUFF"  40 odd years of collecting and rock hunting.  Once I get selling and turning it into liquid assets ie CASH :P I will be okay.

Next few days I will have the basic pages set up for the store and will link it here. Once the setup is done its simply a matter of adding new stuff

When I have time I can also add listings if some other members have stuff they want to put up, we can work out details later ;)... but its an idea in the works, sort of a members classified type thing

Okay that is it for now. I will be adding to this but wanted the main points out there. I will open a parallel discussion thread on this in a minute.. Once I get all this set in place I will be able to get back to posting and solve the forum/server issues, but right now I need to get some income going. No more procrastination, lack of focus or laziness :P

Get the lead out :D

Offline zorgon

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Re: SO... you need MONEY?
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2012, 10:59:49 PM »

Okay before you go hitting the pawn shops and dealers to sell your heirlooms and jewelry you need to read THIS

MOST dealers out there, especially those on TV will NOT give you fair value for your gold and silver.

There are some reputable dealers out there and you can find them by taking your valuables in to have them give you a quote first. Don't just walk in and sell it.

There was a fellow who took in a known value gold chain, a one once silver coin and a few other items to various stores to test what they pay. I will find his article and post the results.

What he found was that many dealers told him his stuff was not real solid metal and then offered a small token amount for the pieces.

Now these dealers need to make a profit, to be fair, and if you only have a few pieces you are not likely to seek out a refinery. But a reputable dealer will offer you a fair price and not try to tell you your stuff is worthless.

So a few tips....

Start here... you first need to know what the current price of gold and silver is, so you know whether or not you are getting a fair deal


Todays price:

GOLD: $1713.60 USD
SILVER: $32.25 USD

This is the price per ounce. Bear in mind that these are TROY ounces
1 troy ounce = 31.1034768 grams (compared to a regular once which is 28.3495 grams)

This price is also based on pure gold and silver (99.99%) In the case of gold that is 24 carat

So if you have an 18k ring that means that 3/4 of that ring is gold, 1/4 copper or other alloy (this is why low carat gold turns some people's fingers green :D )

So with a simple gram scale you can now calculate the value of your gold. Silver is generally sterling .925 pure so there is little difference. Coin silver is 50% usually for wear factor.

Now lets see about selling it. It is a common misconception that refineries will not deal with the public. That USED to be the case years ago, and many today still have a minimum order for processing, but there are old and trustworthy refiners out there that will take ANY amount.

So BEFORE you run off to the pawn shop or those "Gold for Cash" vultures... contact these people and ask...

4471 Forest Ave.Waterford, Michigan 48328
Toll Free 1-800-356-2955
Office Hours: Monday-Friday 9am-5pm Eastern Standard Time


The only scrap gold, silver and platinum buyers and refiners you will ever need!
Serving jewelers, goldsmiths, dentists, dental laboratories, industries and companies generating precious metal scrap, physics departments, pawn shops, metal detector hobbyists, and the general public.

    Scrap gold, silver and platinum refiners of choice by countless jewelers and goldsmiths.
    The right smelter to sell any amount of gold, silver and platinum scrap metals.
    No minimum amount of scrap gold, platinum and silver. No amount too small or too large.
    No gold, silver and platinum refiners fees or refining charges!
    No gold, silver and platinum assay fees!
    No scrap gold, silver and platinum treatment charges!
    No inbound troy ounce weight charges on any gold, silver and platinum bearing precious metal material!
    No costs to sell gold, silver and platinum to Midwest Refineries.

Increases in payables on gold, silver and platinum!

Midwest Refineries now pays:

    95% of the amount of pure
    gold contained in your order
    90% of the amount of pure
    silver contained in your order for sterling silver and 90% coin silver
    80% of the amount of pure
    silver contained in your order for 800 silver
    92% of the amount of pure
    silver contained in your order for hallmarkd .999 silver bullion coins and bars
    90% of the amount of pure platinum contained in your order
    80% of the amount of pure rhodium contained in your order
    80% of the amount of pure palladium contained in your order


Okay so check out there site and you will see category listings of metals they accept.America's Gold, Platinum and Silver scrap buyer, smelter and refiner since 1939 and show up in any top ten refiner's lists. I used to use Johnson Mathey before but they have minimum lot requirements now.

Hope that helps someone out there. At current gold prices even a small amount is worth a lot. I have old jewelry items I made decades ago that never sold... time to strip them down and cash em in

On a side note... back in Toronto a little old lady had a yard ale... she had a small margirine dish of loose gemstone... some wee glass, some were real. Another lady was looking at them and then finally set down that disk, thinking about it. As soon as it hit the table I snatched it up fast. The lady glared at me and her hubby shook his head..

The dish was 5.00 for all... seriously buy the dang think or step aside. :D So then the old lady says she had taken the stones out of old rings before scrapping her gold because the dealer said he wouldn't pay for the weight of the stones. So she plucked them out and figured she could get a few bucks for them

The moral of the story... that shyster was a moron as well as a crook. Those old rings would have fetched more than their gold value.  It does show though how easily people fall into that trap.  As to those stones. I did find a few really good gems in that dish :D

Offline zorgon

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Re: SO... you need MONEY?
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2012, 11:29:49 PM »

Okay so you don't have the key to Fort Knox (would do you no good anyway as I here its empty :P ) and your not very skilled at mining for gold...

So where can YOU get gold?

Flea Markets and Yard Sale, Thrift Stores and Church Sales.

Most people do not always know what they have or how to recognize precious metals and if you have a sharp eye you can get lucky. It doesn't take long to develop and eye and a feel for gold and silver...

As to the eye... gold and silver chains for example have soldered links. They don't do that for costume jewelry

As to the 'feel'  Gold and silver are warm to the touch, while others are cold. Hold it in your hand for a minute and if its precious it will feel warm, while plated will feel cool.  In time you get it :D

I recently was at a yard sale and the guy has a small box of silver rings. $1.00 each or $10.00 the box.  He knew they were silver,even said the lot weighed 7 ounces,  but the pawn shop offered little.  By the time I got to the box there were only 4.5 ounces left... 

4.5 for $10.00?  That's a steal with silver at 32.50 an ounce :D

I picked up a silver serving tray for $2.oo at a thrift store.  It had a black spot in the middle and I figured it had to be just plated but I wanted to for the medieval group.  When i got it home I saw a little bend in one edge so took my hammer to straighten it a little. Well it was soft... so I looked closely... Guess what? Hall mark stamps all over it... it is solid sterling. I will post a picture of it as I think I will send that to the auction houses :D


Yes that's right PANNING. With a little knowledge and asking some local rock collectors, you can fin a panning area in most any state. Some better than others but it makes a great camping trip. Guys I knew in Toronto used to go up to the Yukon for two weeks vacation and pan... collected enough little nuggets to pay for a year of college  And THIS was back in the 70's

My mother in law  wrote a small guide book on how to and where to look. I plan to update that and reprint it in the new year


A fellow in California has a metal that discriminates precious metals. He takes a couple buddies out to the old gold mines on weekends. He uses the detector and flags a hit, his buddies dig. Last trip they netted 1,800.00 in specimens.  When a mine digs gold by machine, they miss some in the dumps.

Back in Canada one smart chap got the rights to a very old gold mine, the first in Ontario, and simply took the tailing into a modern crusher. This too was in the 7o's  THAT venture netted him 43 million at 70's prices. Why? because in those days they use pick and shovel and missed all the fine stuff

A metal detector is also great in parks, the beach or other public places. My daughter found an 18K heavy mans ring in the gutter just walking homer from work... beaten and worn, but 1.25 oz 18k gold


A little trickier but VERY profitable...  those old computer boards? Laced with gold. The tabs especially. The connectors too... if it looks like gold, it IS gold on electronic parts.

Look at your house landline phone jack... see those little gold wires in the jack and the plug? Guess what they are 24k gold on a very thing steel wire

My refiner has a minimum processing lot... its five pounds. I think I have high grades (sorted) about 45 pounds or so now. They also take plated material and foreign silver coins

123 Precious Metal Refining, LLC
Call Toll Free


We are buyers and refiners of dental bridges, gold crowns, gold dental alloy, laboratory spews and spills, polishings, and sweepings. We also buy old gold tooth material from oral surgeons or individuals.

We buy and refine gold from industrial applications such as vacuum deposition, gold flake, gold plating residues, gold plated wire, gold findings, gold paste, gold ink and gold plated electronics.

We buy and refine gold jewelry from manufacturers and individuals consisting of karat scrap, bench sweeps, findings, broken jewelry, gold fill items, gold nugget, gold shot, casting grain, rings, chains, earrings, gold solder, melted gold, gold sheet, and placer gold.


We buy and refine sterling silver flatware, hollowware, sterling jewelry including sterling silver necklaces, earrings, bracelets, and chains. We buy and refind silver from industrial applications such as silver ink, silver flake from photo processors, silver sacrificial anode from water treatment, electrical contacts, silver mesh, silver solder, silver wire and tubing. We also buy pre-1964 American silver coins and silver clad.


We buy and refine platinum labware including platinum crucibles, platinumn foil, platinum screen, platinum alloyed with palladium and rhodium, and all industrial, medical or laboratory scrap containing platinum. We also buy and refine vacuum deposition flake and platinum sputtering targets, platinum medical scrap, platinum catheters, platinum sponge, platinum bars, platinum jewelry, and also platinum thermocouple wire of every alloy.

There are many videos on youtube that show you where the gold is in electronic scrap and even how you can refine it yourself (dangerous... acids required)

I won't get into catalytic converters because its a market riff with thieves (I had mine stolen off my Toyota), but if you have one off an old car, there is platinum in those. You can see people sell them on Ebay for big bucks for platinum recovery

So there ya go... many places to find gold legally and without to much effort

If you don't mind hard work with a sledge, pick and shovel there are outcrops around you can pulverize :D

« Last Edit: November 17, 2012, 11:42:56 PM by zorgon »

Offline zorgon

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Re: SO... you need MONEY?
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2012, 11:52:31 PM »

Here you need to have knowledge... so you can recognize value. There is so much stuff goes through those store you can easily pick up a great treasure. not to mention saving tons of money not buying new.

Thing is when people pass on, they leave their goods behind. Most families already have their own clutter and rarely recognize stuff of true value from their elders... and just sell it cheap at a yard sale or donate it.

Thrift stores are getting smarter... Goodwill now has Ebay like auctions and they look up stuff on the web, but there are many independent stores in every city. Just learn what has value

My mother also use to take stuff to consignment second had stores.  Then once a week they did the rounds dropping off items and picking up any cash.

My sister finally got an Ebay store going. She found that she could buy fur coats cheap at church sales and get good money on line... so much so that she just paid for a two week vacation to Costa Rica for her family of four with enough to pay the bills for a month

Once I post my webstore, you will see the items I have found over the years that I am parting with. Yeah its hard for a collector to sell :P But then I collected for future value.  The great thing about the net is instead of just having local people view your stuff, its all over the world where the money is.

Sold some of my old tools already... couldn't get 10 bucks at a yard sale, but got 30.00 on Ebay.

I will have time in January to help out if you have an item you think may have value. You can search on the web but I already have sources so will be glad to help out. We can always make a deal for listing it as well

Offline zorgon

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Re: SO... you need MONEY?
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2012, 12:07:54 AM »

Not everyone has room for a big pantry, but even an aptment closet can be converted. If you have the will there is a way.

You want to stockpile not so much for emergency, but to take advantage of specials.

Store that are closing out... TONS of deals. Concentrate on things that are not perishable. There are many food items that fit into that. Honey and Jam, anything in glass jars for example... these have a very long shelf life... almost indefinitely if kept from heating

We had a Ralph store close and we bought honey Jam and peanut butter... 50 cents a jar near the last days. That was 6 years ago and we still have lots of that stock

Rite Aid stores went out of Business all over Vegas... they sold off everything at 25% and less. I stocked up on rum brandy and other goodies :D. Just make sure that you pick things that don't spoil  and those that do make sure you date and rotate stock

Our grocery stores mark down to half everything that approaches the sell by date. That doesn't mean its bad, just they have to sell by that date. My daughter brought home blocks of velveta cheese in vacuum sealed foil boxes. Normal $8.00 a block she got them at .50 cents each plus her 20% discount :P

Cheese freezes really well :D

Get yourself a chest freezer. Even in an apt.  My mother had a one bedroom apartment but still put a full size chest freezer in the kitchen.  The money she saved was awesome, because when certain veggies and meat go on sale, she bought a lot and froze them

A used chest freezer runs about $100-$150  I picked up an industrial upright at a repair shop second hand dealer for $300.  I still have my original one from Toronto, running on 30 plus years now without repair  and picked up another small one at a yard sale for $20.00

(still need a generator  just in case :P)  But they sure came in handy when I was working the food conventions :D

Also what ever we produce in the garden, gets prepared and put in the freezer. Vegetables are cheaper in certain seasons for obvious reasons... so buy when cheap precook or blanch them and freeze them. If your ambitious, learn canning. Its easy. 

Even with the hot summer we had we still had decent yield Our pomegranate tree produced tons which we juiced and froze most of them. gave away a lot to friends too
« Last Edit: November 18, 2012, 02:29:48 AM by zorgon »

Offline zorgon

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Re: SO... you need MONEY?
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2012, 02:48:24 AM »

That's right... tons of it for harvest...

Most states have various plants that grow wild and are delicious. It would not hurt you to learn what they are and try them. A great survival tool as well as money saver...

I keep seeing these extreme survivalists eating bugs and maggots... are they insane? Survival doesn't mean devolving to Cro Magnon man.... it just means knowing your surroundings

Obviously any one that is a hunter can go find game. A nice deer in the freezer is meat for a year. Rabbits and Quail are in abundance out here in the desert and lizards taste like chicken... literally :D

Oddly enough my Mormon neighbor from New Zealand, had a small chicken coop in his back yard. Produced enough eggs for his family and still extra to give to friends

But lets look at something many people overlook. Fruit trees. Almost every city has them. Office buildings have them, your neighbors have them.  MOST of that fruit falls to the ground and rots. A lot of it is outside the fences and easy to access.

So lets have a look...  here in Vegas for example

Dates for instance... Jumbo Medjool Dates 1lb bag — $7.49

Well three blocks from me there are several office buildings and a medical complex. They have date palms. They don't harvest them and just have the grounds keeper clean them up.  Last year we took a tarp on a Sunday and a long pole. Put the tarp on the ground and shook the clusters. In MINUTES that tarp was full of fresh ripe dates.  We cleaned them and sorted the best ones and pitted them, pressed them into one pound blocks and put them in the freezer. Sent a lot to friends,  They are sweet and naturally grown, no pesticides as they are just ornamental trees.

No one else wants them... they just go to waste. There are so many we cannot harvest them all. But they are FREE and at 8.00 a lb that is a lot of free nutritious food.

Here is a typical ornamental date palm... low to the ground

There are other medical complexes close by... One has black olive trees, another has plum trees. small but sweet fruit great for jams or wine making. They don't mind you harvesting the fruit

Two neighbors have huge fig trees... two varieties... tons of figs.... just lay them in the sun to dry. Figs and dates dry well and last a very long time stored dry

Pomegranates are everywhere, even one out at John's mine. One their tap root gets to water table they need no maintenance and produce a lot of fruit

Mulberry trees, the bane of allergy sufferers are all over Vegas and one friend has a Loganberry tree.

A little work and you have free food enough to live quite well and healthy on... and its all there for the picking.

Most cities will have some fruit trees. many people will let you pick them because they produce more than they can use and they just have to clean up the mess anyway. just ASK

Now out here in the desert are two plants that are available in the grocery store

Prickly Pear (leaves and pears)

Easy to grow and harvest... they are a desert cactus and have pretty flowers.

How to Cut and Prepare Prickly Pears

and Yucca Root

Mexicans and Native Americans have eaten these for hundreds of years and there are great recipes online

I could do a whole thread on the various edible wild that most people these days have forgotten about. Not only FREE FOOD, but healthy food... and you can make money. Wild mushrooms like TRUFFLES sell for big bucks to restaurants

In fact I Will redo my 'survival' thread next :D I spent many years studying herbs and wild foods. I gave my notes to a friend to put in a book but he never did. I just got my notes back :D
« Last Edit: November 18, 2012, 03:12:55 AM by zorgon » USA, LLC
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