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Author Topic: The Earth Is Flat - THEY have been lying to you!  (Read 6779 times)

Offline zorgon

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The Earth Is Flat - THEY have been lying to you!
« on: September 11, 2012, 03:12:43 PM »
The Earth Is Flat - THEY have been lying to you!

Just popped in to Alpha Tango Spook for some laughs and the first thing I see on the front page is this...

The Flat Earth theory, With Interviews from believers

Stuff They Don't Want You To Know - Flat Earth

From How Stuff Works...

[youtube]1k3Fnb2wR0c[/youtube]

Flat Earth Society


A Flat Earth model depicting Antarctica as an ice wall surrounding a disk-shaped Earth.

Quote
The Flat Earth Society (also known as the International Flat Earth Society or the International Flat Earth Research Society) is an organization that seeks to further the belief that the Earth is flat instead of an oblate spheroid. The modern organization was founded by Englishman Samuel Shenton in 1956 and was later led by Charles K. Johnson, who based the organization in his home in Lancaster, California. The formal society was inactive after Johnson’s death in 2001 but was resurrected in 2004 by its new president Daniel Shenton.

Origins—the Zetetic societies

Quote
The belief that the Earth was flat was typical of ancient cosmologies until about the 4th century BC, when the Ancient Greek philosophers proposed the idea that the Earth was a sphere, or at least rounded in shape. Aristotle was one of the first thinkers to propose a spherical Earth in 330 BC. By the early Middle Ages, it was widespread knowledge throughout Europe that the Earth was a sphere.

Modern hypotheses supporting a flat Earth originated with English inventor Samuel Rowbotham (1816–1884). Based on his incorrect interpretation of experiments on the Bedford Level, Rowbotham published a 16-page pamphlet, called "Zetetic Astronomy", which he later expanded into a 430-page book, Earth Not a Globe, expounding his views. According to Rowbotham's system, the earth is a flat disc centred at the North Pole and bounded along its southern edge by a wall of ice (Antarctica), with the sun and moon 3000 miles (4800 km) and the "cosmos" 3100 miles (5000 km) above earth. He also published a leaflet entitled "The inconsistency of Modern Astronomy and its Opposition to the Scriptures!!" which argued that the "Bible, alongside our senses, supported the idea that the earth was flat and immovable and this essential truth should not be set aside for a system based solely on human conjecture".

Rowbotham and his followers, like William Carpenter who continued his work, gained attention by engaging in public debates with leading scientists of the day. One such debate, involving the prominent naturalist Alfred Russel Wallace, concerned the Bedford Level experiment (and later led to several lawsuits for fraud and libel). Rowbotham created a Zetetic Society in England and New York, shipping over a thousand copies of Zetetic Astronomy. Council members in New York included the US Consul to China and the superintendent of Baltimore public schools. He also edited "The Zetetic and Anti-Theorist: a monthly journal of practical cosmography".

After Rowbotham's death, Lady Elizabeth Blount, wife of the explorer Sir Walter de Sodington Blount, established a Universal Zetetic Society, whose objective was "the propagation of knowledge related to Natural Cosmogony in confirmation of the Holy Scriptures, based on practical scientific investigation". The society published a magazine entitled The Earth Not a Globe Review, and remained active well into the early part of the 20th century. A flat Earth journal, Earth: a Monthly Magazine of Sense and Science, was published between 1901–1904, edited by Lady Blount. In 1901, she repeated Rowbotham's Bedford Level Experiment and photographed the effect, sparking a correspondence in the magazine English Mechanic with several counter-claims. Later it achieved some notoriety by being involved in a scam involving dental practices. After World War I, the movement underwent a slow decline.

Modern incarnation


The logo of the modern Flat Earth Society

Quote
n 1956, Samuel Shenton, a signwriter by trade, created the International Flat Earth Society as a successor to the Universal Zetetic Society and ran it as "organizing secretary" from his home in Dover, in Britain. Due to Shenton's interest in alternative science and technology, the emphasis on religious arguments was less than in the predecessor society.

This was just before the launch of the first artificial satellite and when satellite images taken from outer space showed the Earth as a sphere rather than flat, the society was undaunted; Shenton remarked: "It's easy to see how a photograph like that could fool the untrained eye."

However it was not until the advent of manned spaceflight that Shenton managed to attract wide publicity, being featured in The New York Times in January and June 1964, when the epithet "flat-earther" was also slung across the floor of the House of Commons of the United Kingdom in both directions.

The society also took the position that the Apollo Moon landings were a hoax, staged by Hollywood and based on a script by Arthur C. Clarke, a position also held by others not connected to the Flat Earth Society. On hearing this, Clarke sent a facetious letter to NASA's chief administrator:

    "Dear Sir, on checking my records, I see that I have never received payment for this work. Could you please look into this matter with some urgency? Otherwise you will be hearing from my solicitors, Messrs Geldsnatch, Geldsnatch and Blubberclutch".

In 1969, Shenton persuaded Ellis Hillman, a Polytechnic lecturer, to become president of the Flat Earth Society, but there is little evidence of any activity on his part until after Shenton's death, when he added most of Shenton's library to the archives of the Science Fiction Foundation which he helped to establish.

Shenton died in 1971 and Charles K. Johnson, inheriting part of Shenton's library from Shenton's wife, established and became the president of the International Flat Earth Research Society of America and Covenant People's Church in California. Under his leadership, over the next three decades, the Flat Earth Society grew in size from a few members to about 3,000. Johnson distributed newsletters, flyers, maps, and other promotional materials to anyone who asked for them, and managed all membership applications together with his wife, Marjory, who was also a flat-earther. The most famous of these newsletters was Flat Earth News. Johnson paid for these publications through annual dues of members, which ranged from US$6 to $10 over the course of his leadership.

The most recent world model propagated by the Flat Earth Society holds that humanity lives on a disc, with the North Pole at its center and a 150-foot (45 m) high wall of ice at the outer edge. The resulting map resembles the symbol of the United Nations, which Johnson used as evidence for his position. In this model, the sun and moon are each a mere 32 miles (52 km) in diameter.

A newsletter from the society gives some insight into Johnson's thinking:

    Aim: To carefully observe, think freely, rediscover forgotten fact and oppose theoretical dogmatic assumptions. To help establish the United States...of the world on this flat earth. Replace the science religion...with SANITY.

    The International Flat Earth Society is the oldest continuous Society existing in the world today. It began with the Creation of the Creation. First the water...the face of the deep...without form or limits...just Water. Then the Land sitting in and on the Water, the Water then as now being flat and level, as is the very Nature of Water. There are, of course, mountains and valleys on the Land but since most of the World is Water, we say, "The World is Flat". Historical accounts and spoken history tell us the Land part may have been square, all in one mass at one time, then as now, the magnetic north being the Center. Vast cataclysmic events and shaking no doubt broke the land apart, divided the Land to be our present continents or islands as they exist today. One thing we know for sure about this world...the known inhabited world is Flat, Level, a Plain World.

    We maintain that what is called 'Science' today and 'scientists' consist of the same old gang of witch doctors, sorcerers, tellers of tales, the 'Priest-Entertainers' for the common people. 'Science' consists of a weird, way-out occult concoction of gibberish theory-theology...unrelated to the real world of facts, technology and inventions, tall buildings and fast cars, airplanes and other Real and Good things in life; technology is not in any way related to the web of idiotic scientific theory. ALL inventors have been anti-science. The Wright brothers said: "Science theory held us up for years. When we threw out all science, started from experiment and experience, then we invented the airplane." By the way, airplanes all fly level on this Plane earth.

The Flat Earth Society recruited members by attacking the United States government and all of its agencies, particularly NASA. Much of the society’s literature in its early days focused on interpreting the Bible literally to mean that the Earth is flat, although they did attempt to offer scientific explanations and evidence.

Peak and decline

Quote
The group rose to about 2,000 members during its peak under Charles K. Johnson. The organization faced overwhelming scientific evidence and public opinion that maintained that the Earth is a sphere. The term "flat-earther" became commonly used to refer to an individual who stubbornly adheres to discredited or outmoded ideas.

The society fell to around 200 members by 1980. These members still held the belief that the Earth is flat. Eugenie Scott called the society an example of "extreme Biblical-literalist theology: The earth is flat because the Bible says it is flat, regardless of what science tells us." The society was further affected by a fire at the house of Charles K. Johnson which destroyed all of the records and contacts of members of the Flat Earth Society. Johnson’s wife, who helped manage the database, died shortly thereafter. Charles K. Johnson himself died on March 19, 2001.

Canadian branch

Quote
The Flat Earth Society of Canada was set up by Leo Ferrari (1927–2010), a philosophy professor at the St Thomas University in 1970, together with Raymond Fraser and Alden Nowlan and was active till about 1984. Their aims were quite different from other flat earth societies. With obvious humorous overtones, they claimed a prevailing problem of the new technological age was the willingness of people to accept theories "on blind faith and to reject the evidence of their own senses." They did not actually believe Flat Earth theories, considering their proponents to be cranks, and indeed did not accept such people into their society, which was composed of quite a few prominent members of Canadian literary and political circles.

They published a newsletter, The Official Chronicle and promoted their ideas more widely through television and press. Its primary aims were "to combat the fallacious deification of the circle," "to restore man's confidence in the validity of his own perceptions", and "to spearhead man's escape from his metaphysical and geometrical prison."

Flat Earth Society From Wikipedia

Offline zorgon

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Re: The Earth Is Flat - THEY have been lying to you!
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2012, 03:16:10 PM »
Quote
Interview 1
Strange_Wayz/Tom Bishop
I created a general thread asking members for an interview, a member of the forum told me this of Tom Bishop


    Your best bet for an interview IMHO is Tom Bishop. He knows everything there is to know about flat earth theory and he is an interesting character at the very least - if you are lucky he may oblige. The Round Earthers here hate him, but that should give you some idea of how formidable he can be in debate. He also rarely does interviews so yours wouldn't be like all the Shenton/Davis interviews that you can google.

Do you believe the earth to be completely flat or more of a bowl shape?

The earth is flat.

When did you first start believing the earth was flat?

I first heard about the Flat Earth Society on CNN about 11 years ago. Former FES president Charles K. Johnson appeared on television to give an interview on national television describing his beliefs about the earth. The concept of a group of intellectuals who believed that the earth was flat intrigued me, prompting me to look further. After some months playing with the idea I finally ordered a copy of Earth Not a Globe, the premiere manual on Flat Earth Theory.

Earth Not a Globe was written in the mid 1800‘s by a medical doctor named Samuel Birley Rowbotham. Dr. Rowbotham starts his work as an honest inquiry into the shape of the Earth, starting afresh without interpreting the results of experiments to any one particular predisposition. He calls his method of inquiry Zeteticiscm, where tests are tried and facts are collected without building upon any particular hypothesis or theory.

Zeteticism is is in direct contradiction to the Scientific Method, where one begins with a hypothesis and builds his work off of that. Purveyors of the Scientific Method seek to ‘stand on the shoulders of giants’, building one hypothesis upon the next in mumbling pretension until we have house of cards model of the universe consisting nothing but undiscovered phenomena like graviton particles and dark matter to glue the entire horrid mess together.

Rowbotham made me disgusted with the Newtonian and every other theory. His work compelled me to realize that astronomers are not scientists like other scientists. They cannot put the universe under controlled conditions to come to the truth of the matter, as a chemist can with his subject matter. An astronomer can only observe and interpret. Stephan Hawking never performed any experiments on the universe before publishing his works, for example. Nor did Newton or Copernicus. Even in the 1800‘s, Rowbotham saw that the bulk of astronomy was based on hypothesis and conjecture.

As a form of empiricism, Zeteticsm is the more honest approach to science. Direct evidence is demanded in all things. A Zetetic is a free-thinker; one whose views are based on logic and reason independent of authority.

Is it possible for one to reach the edge? If so what would they see?

It is not possible for one to reach the edge. The earth is an infinite plane.

Do you think the round earth is a huge government lie? If so, why would they spend all those resources and time to keep the public in the dark

This is a common assumption people have when visiting our website -- that there is some elaborate conspiracy hiding the shape of the earth or otherwise tricking the public into believing that it is round. But the government is not hiding the shape of the earth. They are simply mistaken.

There is a conspiracy, but it has nothing to do with hiding the shape of the earth. The purpose of NASA is to fake the concept of space travel to further America's militaristic dominance of space. That was the purpose of NASA's creation from the very start: To put ICBMs and other weapons into space (or at least appear to). The sentiment of a desire to explore space was nothing more than a front.

See this quote from president Lyndon Johnson:

"Control of space means control of the world. From space, the masters of infinity
would have the power to control the earth's weather, to cause drought and flood,
to change the tides and raise the levels of the sea, to divert the gulf stream and
change temperate climates to frigid. There is something more important than the
ultimate weapon. And that's the ultimate position. The position of total control
over the Earth that lies somewhere in outer space."

-President Lyndon Johnson, Statement on Status of Nation's Defense and Race for
Space, January 7, 1958


One month later, Lyndon Johnson and the Senate Special Committee on Space and Astronautics drafted a resolution to change the name of the US Army's Ballistic Missile Arsenal to the National Aeronautics and Space Administration.

NASA's early rocket research is well documented to have been a complete failure, plagued by one disaster after another. At some point, perhaps after the Apollo 1 disaster, it was decided to fake the space program outright and use rockets which only needed to fly into the air until they disappeared from sight. NASA went from nearly every launch being a failure to a near flawless track record, able to land man on the moon multiple times without error, and with only two public spectacles of failure in 45 years.

The earth is portrayed as round in NASA media because NASA thinks it's round. They are not in the business of running a real space program, so they wouldn't know what shape the earth truly takes. At the time of NASA's creation the general population already believed that the earth was round, based on the handed down teachings of the Ancient Greeks, which is why it was depicted in that manner. As with everyone else in the country, the people at NASA were brainwashed with the fiction of a globe earth from the cradle, so there was no doubt in their mind as how to display it.

What are your beliefs on the Moon Landings and the recent curiosity rover on mars?

Fake.

What about amateur pictures from weather balloons where you can supposedly see the curvature of the planet?

Real. At the edge of space you are looking down on a circle of light, and will therefore see some slight curvature to the horizon.

Do you believe in aliens, and what do you make of their supposed link to ancient civilizations?

I don’t believe in aliens and I am not religious.

SOURCE: ATS THREAD

Offline zorgon

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Re: The Earth Is Flat - THEY have been lying to you!
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2012, 03:19:09 PM »
Quote
Interview 2
Strange_Wayz/Ski
Ski is a “Planar Moderator” on the Flat Earth Forums, With a total of 5417 posts so I was delighted to be given this opportunity, Here it is


Do you believe the earth to be completely flat or more of a bowl shape?

It is obviously not "completely" flat. I do not believe it to be concave, however. As an interesting aside, nearly every ancient cosmology places a ring of mountains at the rim of the disc producing a rough bowl shape, I suppose.

When did you first start believing the earth was flat?

When I was in school studying philosophy, I began looking at generational "common knowledge" "truths" versus empirical truths (Hume, Kant, Hobbes, etc). I began to question many of my beliefs and attempted to reconstruct them empirically. I questioned the shape of the earth only as a nod to this exercise. To my surprise globularism fared rather poorly. The more I questioned the accepted model, the more I found the answers uncompelling.

Is it possible for one to reach the edge? If so what would they see?

I think the edge is sufficiently remote in the depths of the rim-country, that the inhospitable weather conditions make travel there unlikely. It is perhaps possible by way of flight. Navigation into terra incognita, where magnetic field lines are near vertical seems daunting. I imagine one would peer into the depths of space beyond the rim.

Do you think the round earth is a huge government lie? If so, why would they spend all those resources and time to keep the public in the dark? What are your beliefs on the Moon Landings and the recent curiosity rover on mars?

I don't think the government proper has any indication the earth is anything but a globe. There exists an influential group of Illuminists within governments promoting the idea for their own gain. The moon and martian landings are contested by millions of people with no interest in promoting a flat earth agenda. It is hardly novel that we reject those claims based on available evidence.

What about amateur pictures from weather balloons where you can supposedly see the curvature of the planet?

Most of these endeavours use a fish-eye or other wide-angle lens. This provides a spectacular field of view, but also introduces barrel-distortion in the image.

[youtube]r-TCO2IdoTA[/youtube]

Look at 1:33-1:36 in the video.
Look at 2:47-53 in the video

It's pretty clear that the horizon is flat when he opens the door to the capsule, and that it looks curved when seen from the wide angle view outside of the capsule. The horizon looks curved even at ground level from the outside cameras.

Some curvature should be evident from height above the portion of the earth lit by the sun. This is the boundary of the area illuminated, and not (necessarily) the bounds of the earth.

Do you believe in aliens, and what do you make of their supposed link to ancient civilizations?

I believe the alien/UFO phenomenon do exist, but do not believe them to be extra-terrestrial.
[/size]

SOURCE: ATS THREAD

Offline zorgon

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Re: The Earth Is Flat - THEY have been lying to you!
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2012, 03:37:04 PM »
Flat Earth Society Library

Welcome to the Flat Earth Society library.  This is the largest collection of Flat Earth literature on the internet.  I believe we also have the largest collection of Flat Earth Society newsletters anywhere in the world, online or in print.

http://theflatearthsociety.org/cms/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=47&Itemid=62

And you thought the earth was Round :P

Offline biggles

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Re: The Earth Is Flat - THEY have been lying to you!
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2012, 04:35:08 PM »
So all those spherical views of the earth outside spacecraft are lies, their lying to us............I don't believe it.....are they telling us porkies............nooooo.  :o
I know that I know nothing - thanks Capricorn.

Offline Shasta56

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Re: The Earth Is Flat - THEY have been lying to you!
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2017, 08:02:45 PM »
If the Earth was flat, cats would have pushed everything off the edge by now.

Shasta
Daughter of Sekhmet

Offline rdunk

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Re: The Earth Is Flat - THEY have been lying to you!
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2017, 08:40:41 PM »
Of all of the "stories" that I have witnessed during my looooooooong life so far, the proposition of there being a "flat Earth" is perhaps the most ridiculous. Of course, a flat Earth was a well respected "fact", when man didn't KNOW differently. But, the technology of today so easily refutes the supposition of the flat Earth. For any who believe such, it is like a "fairy tale" being taken and justified with reason basis, but with no reality!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Shasta56, it is just a guess, but I would bet that even the cats know that the Earth is not flat!! 
« Last Edit: May 15, 2017, 08:42:41 PM by rdunk »

Offline A51Watcher

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Re: The Earth Is Flat - THEY have been lying to you!
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2017, 10:00:00 PM »
If the Earth was flat, cats would have pushed everything off the edge by now.

Shasta


"Can you not??"

heh heh


Offline The Seeker

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Re: The Earth Is Flat - THEY have been lying to you!
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2017, 03:45:06 AM »
OK, I have a question for the flat earthers: What's on the bottom of this obviously(in their minds) cosmic pancake we reside on?

How do they account for the seasonal procession that brings months of darkness to both the North and South poles?

Perhaps they all need more fiber in their diet, and a plexiglass belly button might improve their view of the world...

just sayin...

Seeker
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Offline zorgon

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Re: The Earth Is Flat - THEY have been lying to you!
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2017, 03:58:41 AM »
Of all of the "stories" that I have witnessed during my looooooooong life so far, the proposition of there being a "flat Earth" is perhaps the most ridiculous.

What shape is it in the Bible?  In the Qur'an  it is flat  :P

Offline Irene

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Re: The Earth Is Flat - THEY have been lying to you!
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2017, 09:25:57 AM »
If the Earth was flat, cats would have pushed everything off the edge by now.

Shasta

ROTFLMFAO

Gold for that!  ;D
Shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods.....

Offline Shasta56

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Re: The Earth Is Flat - THEY have been lying to you!
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2017, 01:25:31 PM »
Thank you.  I saw a cartoon about that on Facebook.  It made me think.  I know Max loves to knock everything off whatever he's on.  He's a big cat, so he can clear a coffee table with minimal effort.  Some of the others are almost as bad. 

Shasta
Daughter of Sekhmet

Offline Irene

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Re: The Earth Is Flat - THEY have been lying to you!
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2017, 03:35:30 PM »
Thank you.  I saw a cartoon about that on Facebook.  It made me think.  I know Max loves to knock everything off whatever he's on.  He's a big cat, so he can clear a coffee table with minimal effort.  Some of the others are almost as bad. 

Shasta

Bear, my current cat, isn't a "flat earther", but many who came before him were.

People who don't like cats will never understand how endearing their antisocial behaviors really are.  :)
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Offline thorfourwinds

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Re: The Earth Is Flat - THEY have been lying to you!
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2017, 04:14:27 PM »
EARTH AID is dedicated to the creation of an interactive multimedia worldwide event to raise awareness about the challenges and solutions of nuclear energy.

Offline ArMaP

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Re: The Earth Is Flat - THEY have been lying to you!
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2017, 04:22:58 PM »

 


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