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Author Topic: Antikythera Mechanism - Oopart  (Read 17142 times)

Offline ArMaP

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Re: Antikythera Mechanism - Oopart
« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2012, 05:50:02 PM »
Before one can make a gear, cut the appropriate tooth pattern, they have to have tooling (far beyond hands) to cut the teeth, another words, it takes specific tooling just to fabricate the parts for this mechanism; tool & dye, and jig!
Once more, the main ingredients are hands and brain; if you know exactly what you want to do is easier to make the tools.

PS: I have never made any machine (I only disassembled and reassembled some watches), so I don't really know a thing about applied materials and such, but problem solving is what I do every day.
PPS: in most of the repairs I do I use just that type of glue tape used in offices and paper clips. ;D

Primus58

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Re: Antikythera Mechanism - Oopart
« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2012, 06:28:52 PM »
Once more, the main ingredients are hands and brain; if you know exactly what you want to do is easier to make the tools.

...and Once again, any Dolt understands you need hands and brains! What we're talking about here is advanced knowledge and skill-sets at a specific time early in human history, but that is lost on you!
« Last Edit: September 03, 2012, 06:42:42 PM by Primus58 »

Offline zorgon

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Re: Antikythera Mechanism - Oopart
« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2012, 08:01:34 PM »
if you know exactly what you want to do is easier to make the tools.

Where are the prototypes? You do not "know exactly what you want to do" and create a complicated mechanism without having developed the steps up to that point.  You don't just wake up one day and say "Eureka!!! Today I will invent gears and make a planetary calendar device"

Perhaps. like your Swiss watch, they had something to disassemble to look at :D

Offline 1Worldwatcher

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Re: Antikythera Mechanism - Oopart
« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2012, 11:50:32 PM »
Where are the prototypes? You do not "know exactly what you want to do" and create a complicated mechanism without having developed the steps up to that point.  You don't just wake up one day and say "Eureka!!! Today I will invent gears and make a planetary calendar device"

Perhaps. like your Swiss watch, they had something to disassemble to look at :D

Though the find is mind blowing for the age it apparently posses, some think that this device was a reverse engineered apparatus from a higher intellectual being.
I have discussed this topic with our MIA Doc Deal on several occasions and we had come to a rather 'Feasible' scenario for it's inception, creation and over all existence.
This would entail that there were a conglomeration of scientific like minded individuals positioned around the globe that were corresponding over the issue of our place with in our Universe. Though this is only another point of speculative assumption, this makes the most logical sense, though I do understand the whole reverse engineering ideologies and possibilities.
There is a possibility that this is a one of kind mechanism, and also a possible "Last one" lineage for explanation, I personally see the mechanism being as a one off and that it took many minds to contrive such an accurate device from that age and time, this would be a very well choreographed planning system of watching the celestial bodies moving amongst our Planet and an in depth recording of each individual of the every night they had watched and recorded such events and then had such information from each and everyone transported to the single individual (On a set time frame) capable of producing such intricate metal work.
The metallurgy is less than anything fascinating, common and indigenous to the proximity of its suspected origins. But once this device was built and tested, they had to be more inclined that their recordings and their information that was provided by our celestial bodies visible from earth, and everyone recording such data were accurate with all presented data, the Antikythera Mechanism started it's journey around the globe to be tested by all that were involved to reassure the accuracy and the methodology used for the proper mathematics and ratios, and too make sure that the assumed sciences that were being applied supported each other as being factual basis for our place with in the Universe and to further the presented sciences once it had been tested and presented too all involved. This, by all matters of science, would have escalated sciences away from the "Sun revolves around the Earth" to a very subtle and  blasphemous end to religion as it apparently progressed.
Archeology as adamantly put to rest the time lines of Sea going vessels being Incorporated with in the ancient societal structure (Trade,Transport,Travel, etc.,etc.) and that they were more evident than anyone could have guessed, some the size of a football field, so, could this be the end product of a well choreographed research group of the science minded individuals of the day, had all of their findings and research transported via Sea going vessels too be put together as a formatted articulation of the construction of this device?
Out of all of the discussion concerning this archaeological find thus far, this explanation rings to be the most possible and feasible for it to have been conceived and rendered with in our three dimensional existence.
So, what do you guys/gals think of this possible scenario being the answer to it's origins and inception? More than one mind is needed for such inquiries, and explanation is difficult when speaking of a discussion between two individuals and only one here to explain the theory.
Thanks for reading my inquiry, really makes one think of what may have been a much more diverse world than we have rendered thus far.
"To know men is too have knowledge, to know self is to have insight."

Offline robomont

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Re: Antikythera Mechanism - Oopart
« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2012, 10:39:25 AM »
for one person to have done it,probly a lifetime.many men,probly two years.
maybe the pope had the ship sunk?
notice the emphasis put on christopher columbus through the centuries.
yet it was obvious men from the atlantic region have been travelling here regularly.
for the time being,i call conspiracy involving the catholic church.
ive never been much for rules.
being me has its priviledges.

Dumbledore

PLAYSWITHMACHINES

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Re: Antikythera Mechanism - Oopart
« Reply #20 on: September 10, 2012, 11:25:53 AM »
Something like this?

A lathe using living trees!



« Last Edit: September 10, 2012, 11:27:27 AM by PLAYSWITHMACHINES »

Offline ArMaP

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Re: Antikythera Mechanism - Oopart
« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2012, 05:01:28 PM »
...and Once again, any Dolt understands you need hands and brains! What we're talking about here is advanced knowledge and skill-sets at a specific time early in human history, but that is lost on you!
It's not lost on me, I just don't see it as something as extraordinary for that time as other people.

What kind of advanced knowledge did they need? And what skill sets did they need that they didn't have at that time?

They were able to do things like this bronze head.


And the Greeks were famous for their geometry.

Offline ArMaP

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Re: Antikythera Mechanism - Oopart
« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2012, 05:08:41 PM »
Where are the prototypes?
Seeing that bronze was (and still is) something that is not cheap, it's usually reused, so the final mechanism may even have been made with the metal from the prototypes. Also, whenever I tried to make some (simple) mechanisms, I usually used cardboard or ice-cream sticks, something that is not that good resisting old age. :)

Quote
You don't just wake up one day and say "Eureka!!! Today I will invent gears and make a planetary calendar device"
No, but whenever I have an idea, the first thing I do is think about it, I may think for some weeks about something that I then make in four hours, because all that thought brought me closer to knowing exactly what I wanted to do.

Quote
Perhaps. like your Swiss watch, they had something to disassemble to look at :D
The only watch I have is Japanese. :)
And reverse engineering something is more difficult than having an original idea, as you have to understand the thought process of the person(s) that made whatever you are trying to reverse engineer.

Offline ArMaP

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Re: Antikythera Mechanism - Oopart
« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2012, 05:12:53 PM »
So, what do you guys/gals think of this possible scenario being the answer to it's origins and inception?
I'm confused.  :)

Offline zorgon

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Re: Antikythera Mechanism - Oopart
« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2012, 05:15:07 PM »
They were able to do things like this bronze head.

Carving a bronze head is easy  you carve in a soft material and make a casting..

That is a far cry from meshed precision gears

And so far NO ONE has been able to show me making a perfectly smooth rectangular rock using just copper chisels and a wooden mallet

I will even allow you to use a modern high carbon steel stone mason chisel and modern sledge... and I will allow you all the time you need... but I want to see a smooth finish perfectly rectangular stone made of granite

When someone can do that... then we will discuss how the Egyptians did it with 500 ton obelisks and built the pyramid in only 20 years  (1 stone every 20 minutes)

Until then... It wasn't done by the Egyptians :P



Offline ArMaP

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Re: Antikythera Mechanism - Oopart
« Reply #25 on: September 10, 2012, 05:17:27 PM »
maybe the pope had the ship sunk?
The ship is thought to have sank some 80 years before Christ.

Quote
notice the emphasis put on christopher columbus through the centuries.
Only by Americans.
Quote
yet it was obvious men from the atlantic region have been travelling here regularly.
And, according to some people, some (Portuguese) people knew what existed there, so they knew he couldn't reach India that way.

Quote
for the time being,i call conspiracy involving the catholic church.
There was no such thing at the time.

Offline zorgon

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Re: Antikythera Mechanism - Oopart
« Reply #26 on: September 10, 2012, 05:29:35 PM »
Quote
from: 1Worldwatcher on September 03, 2012, 11:50:32 PM
So, what do you guys/gals think of this possible scenario being the answer to it's origins and inception?


I'm confused.  :)

A device left over from the previous civilization...

Simple as that :P

Just like the GP ;)

Offline A51Watcher

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Re: Antikythera Mechanism - Oopart
« Reply #27 on: September 10, 2012, 05:29:50 PM »
And reverse engineering something is more difficult than having an original idea, as you have to understand the thought process of the person(s) that made whatever you are trying to reverse engineer.


Thats a pretty tall order when working at S4.  ;)



Offline ArMaP

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Re: Antikythera Mechanism - Oopart
« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2012, 05:31:40 PM »
Carving a bronze head is easy  you carve in a soft material and make a casting..

That is a far cry from meshed precision gears
Not really, they could make a casting of the wheels with the right size and then make the "teeths". I have done some plastic gears that way, and even for someone that lack the precision and practice needed for something like that it was easy (it only took some minutes).

Quote
And so far NO ONE has been able to show me making a perfectly smooth rectangular rock using just copper chisels and a wooden mallet
What's the relation to the Antikythera Mechanism?  ???

Quote
I will even allow you to use a modern high carbon steel stone mason chisel and modern sledge... and I will allow you all the time you need... but I want to see a smooth finish perfectly rectangular stone made of granite
I already got a granite stone from my street's side-walk. ;D

Quote
When someone can do that... then we will discuss how the Egyptians did it with 500 ton obelisks and built the pyramid in only 20 years  (1 stone every 20 minutes)
I know it's not the same thing, but in Portugal, a man with a hammer and a good supply of small (some 5 x 5 x 5 cm) limestone blocks can make a pavement with some 10 x 10 metres in half a day, cutting the stones to the exact shape needed just with the hammer. If some design is involved then they usually take twice that time to do something like this.


When the method is known and the people doing the work have the practice to do it, things are usually faster than expected.

Offline ArMaP

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Re: Antikythera Mechanism - Oopart
« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2012, 05:33:06 PM »

 


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