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Author Topic: Stigmergic Governance Via the Web  (Read 19402 times)

Offline Amaterasu

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Stigmergic Governance Via the Web
« on: July 23, 2012, 01:13:01 PM »
In My piece, The End of Entropy (http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=657.0), I propose the following:

With a central website, in forum style, to address major issues – divided into local sections, regional sections and global sections, with “votes” at a certain level elevating the problems and solutions to the next level to be voted on by a greater number – we can collectively coordinate to solve the issues of this planet.  Social responsibility will be seen as spending 15 minutes a day (or more) reviewing the issues on this site.*  This seed parameter will see an emergence of human unity as a race and as a planet.

*This was added to the text.

What is there proposed is a stigmergic governance - a way to govern society without a governMENT.  In a system with no money or need for exchange, stigmergic governance will work - as long as there are money interests, it is unlikely to, with votes bought, up or down, and other disruptive aspects.  This is what I propose in a free energy/robot system where no money is needed (read The End of Entropy for a picture of how this works).  If You are unfamiliar with the term, stigmergy, a good place to get a handle on the term is http://journal.media-culture.org.au/0605/03-elliott.php

A very good illustration of stigmergy is Linux.  In this case, one Individual created a basic program and offered it freely in open source.  Others came along and began to improve upon it, create software to run on it, and so on.  There was no "leader" in this group - those who wanted to get involved did so - and from the initial basic program, a whole creative "empire" came to be...all entirely free and freely.

And so, from this aspect of Our nature to do work on things We care about, whether We are paid or not, I developed a system of governance.  The basic idea is a central website divided into local, regional, continental and global sections.  Much like a forum, People could post problems They see to Their local section (or any other local section where the problem may exhibit itself).  Others, reviewing the site, may "vote" to say They think the subject is a problem too, with "stars" or "thumbs up" or whatever.  Votes down are also allowed.  Apathy can be demonstrated by not voting at all.

Solutions can be posted and be "cheered" or "booed."  In the event a solution is seen to be a good one, leaders of the moment will act to implement the solution.  It can be the original poster or any Other concerned individual - the leaders will emerge to solve the problem.

When enough votes up occur without a solution that is seen as particulary good, the issue is elevated to the next level, the regional level, where more minds can work on the problem, offering help and/or solutions.  More People can vote the problem up or down.

And so on up to the global level.  If a problem is so severe and/or important that it reaches the global level and STILL no solution is found, I guess the Human race is SOL.  But few problems will reach that level, and virtually never will they go unsolved.

The difference between a forum and the site will be that problems will be listed not in terms of date added but in terms of the net number of votes up (votes up minus votes down).  Also, there will be a section of issues unread.

The original poster will have the ability to remove a problem once it is solved or is no longer a problem, at which point it will be archived.  Problems with no activity for three months (or six, or some number as deemed reasonable) will drop off and be archived.

There will be a special section for emergencies - and Those whose bliss it is to help in any given emergency will be able to monitor this section and take action.  Those who care will be enabled to help.

Here is a breakdown of how it will work:

Sue has a problem - any problem at all.  She goes to the website and posts it.  Her neighbors (and anyOne else) can vote relative to Her problem.  They can offer solutions.  Discussion of the problem and its solutions can take place in the problem thread, just as in a forum, and from that, Her problem will likely be solved or will not be seen as a problem by Others.  If no One else sees a problem, no votes up will be received - and Sue will have to make do with what She sees as a problem, finding Her own solution.  This will be rare.  If no One else sees a problem...chances are it really isn't a problem to begin with.

As an example, Let's say Sue has a problem with noisy neighbors.  She posts the problem.  Others ask if She has talked to the neighbors.  Yes, Sure replies, She has.  SomeOne suggests that She move.  Another suggests ordering and installing soundproofing.  Sue considers Her options and decides the move is better than the soundproofing.  She thanks the People for the suggestion and indicates the problem has been solved.

Instead, Let's say the problem is more difficult.  A dam above Her house is showing signs of giving way and She reports this.  Many others see that They are threatened too.  They vote the problem up.  Some also start making suggestions:  get robots out there to shore the dam up.  Drain the water behind the dam.  So on and so forth.  Discussion ensues, and meanwhile more People, though not immediately affected, see that it IS a problem and vote it up.

Soon, it reaches the regional level, and someOne who has experience dealing with such problems chimes in with His solution.  Many cheer it and that One begins the process of solving the problem.  Those who care join to help.  He directs them and the problem is solved.

Maybe it's an asteroid heading for the earth - this will likely reach the global level swiftly, and those who have the knowhow and wherewithal to go into space and plant charges to blow it up or divert it come to the fore as the leaders...

In this way, We Humans can be directly involved in running Our planet, allowing the BEST solutions to be implemented (and not the most profitable or cheapest).

As I mentioned, this is not a system for use where moneyed interests are involved.  In fact...  No governing system works well as long as money is involved.  This is one more reason to eliminate money as a necessity.

If there are issues You see, please let Me know.  Or any other comments.
"If the universe is made of mostly Dark Energy...can We use it to run Our cars?"

"If You want peace, take the profit out of war."

Offline Amaterasu

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Re: Stigmergic Governance Via the Web
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2012, 03:07:11 PM »
No One has anything to add?  Was hoping to discuss.
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Offline undo11

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Re: Stigmergic Governance Via the Web
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2012, 09:53:04 PM »
i like it.  but what happens if say a christian goes there and says something like, i'm a bible believer from way back.  in fact, when i went looking for a job, i took my bible with me.  i had a hard time at the local hamburger shop.  along with burgers and stuff they have cupcakes shaped like women in bikinis and have motorcycle mama posters on the walls. i asked for a job and they said no.  they think i would ruin their "born to be wild" image so they won't hire me, they said while laughing.   she posts a picture and she's a grey haired little old grandmother who has her hair tied up in a bun and her collar fastened up to her chin.  you can just imagine the rest of her clothing is just as modest and she's likely going to make the owners uncomfortable being in their rather carefree environment. 

what would be your suggestion ?
1. that she find another job
2. that they be forced to hire her, no discrimination allowed based on age, gender, race, sexual preference or religion?

it's paradigm time remember.  every body gets to do what they want.  grannies need jobs too
« Last Edit: September 24, 2012, 09:55:27 PM by undo11 »
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Offline Amaterasu

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Re: Stigmergic Governance Via the Web
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2012, 10:05:18 PM »
i like it.  but what happens if say a christian goes there and says something like, i'm a bible believer from way back.  in fact, when i went looking for a job, i took my bible with me.  i had a hard time at the local hamburger shop.  along with burgers and stuff they have cupcakes shaped like women in bikinis and have motorcycle mama posters on the walls. i asked for a job and they said no.  they think i would ruin their "born to be wild" image so they won't hire me, they said while laughing.   she posts a picture and she's a grey haired little old grandmother who has her hair tied up in a bun and her collar fastened up to her chin.  you can just imagine the rest of her clothing is just as modest and she's likely going to make the owners uncomfortable being in their rather carefree environment. 

what would be your suggestion ?
1. that she find another job
2. that they be forced to hire her, no discrimination allowed based on age, gender, race, sexual preference or religion?

it's paradigm time remember.  every body gets to do what they want.  grannies need jobs too

1.  There are no "jobs."  Nobody, including grannies, needs to work.
2.  Start Her own joint if doing that work is Her bliss.
3.  Likely there are no such joints except as friends who love to provide food might put together.  Have You read My book, The Abundance Paradigm?
"If the universe is made of mostly Dark Energy...can We use it to run Our cars?"

"If You want peace, take the profit out of war."

Offline undo11

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Re: Stigmergic Governance Via the Web
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2012, 10:10:08 PM »
i read your book, yep.

little grannies can work short hours but owning their own would be too hard.  so they would be looking for work to keep busy and to feel like they are contributing and perhaps have a chance to influence people in a positive way about jesus (you know that little christian grandmoms have that kinda thing foremost on their minds!), you can bet your bottom dollar. what suggestions would you have for her? 

that she just work around her house and forget working for someone else?   how does she get her bliss? 

i'm just sayin'.  i'm concerned that it will be like one gigantic popularity contest and that mob mentality has never proven to be the greatest judge of character.

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Offline Amaterasu

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Re: Stigmergic Governance Via the Web
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2012, 11:15:27 PM »
i read your book, yep.

little grannies can work short hours but owning their own would be too hard.  so they would be looking for work to keep busy and to feel like they are contributing and perhaps have a chance to influence people in a positive way about jesus (you know that little christian grandmoms have that kinda thing foremost on their minds!), you can bet your bottom dollar. what suggestions would you have for her? 

Only keep Her shop open a few hours.  It's not like She needs the money.  Or get robots or Others whose bliss it is to do such things to man the shop when She's away.  Or maybe She should take up knitting - if She's into that.  Or maybe do research, go traveling, teach kids, babysit, design kites, join a bridge club, study something that interests Her...  Whatever gives Her bliss.

Quote
that she just work around her house and forget working for someone else?   how does she get her bliss? 

What's Her bliss and is She limited to just one bliss?  (I know People whose bliss is to program and go surfing...)  Add to the list above.  I do not doubt She can find something.

Quote
i'm just sayin'.  i'm concerned that it will be like one gigantic popularity contest and that mob mentality has never proven to be the greatest judge of character.

And I'm saying People will congregate with those They like and "popularity" will seldom enter into it.  People won't even be aware of Those They don't like.  You seem to carry wounds that make You believe popularity is important to most People.  News:  It's not.
"If the universe is made of mostly Dark Energy...can We use it to run Our cars?"

"If You want peace, take the profit out of war."

Offline undo11

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Re: Stigmergic Governance Via the Web
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2012, 11:17:08 PM »
Only keep Her shop open a few hours.  It's not like She needs the money.  Or get robots or Others whose bliss it is to do such things to man the shop when She's away.  Or maybe She should take up knitting - if She's into that.  Or maybe do research, go traveling, teach kids, babysit, design kites, join a bridge club, study something that interests Her...  Whatever gives Her bliss.

What's Her bliss and is She limited to just one bliss?  (I know People whose bliss is to program and go surfing...)  Add to the list above.  I do not doubt She can find something.

And I'm saying People will congregate with those They like and "popularity" will seldom enter into it.  People won't even be aware of Those They don't like.  You seem to carry wounds that make You believe popularity is important to most People.  News:  It's not.

i love you ama :D
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Offline petrus4

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Re: Stigmergic Governance Via the Web
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2012, 11:42:22 PM »
i love you ama :D

Seriously though, Undo; if you haven't already read The Abundance Paradigm, which is Amaterasu's novel about this, you really should.  It isn't that long, and it does explain a lot of things, but depicting a scenario in which people actually live in the manner that Amy suggests.

I would also strongly suggest to Amaterasu that she read both The Celestine Prophecy and (particularly) The Tenth Insight, if she has not already.  Your vision for human society has much in common with that of James Redfield, Amy; and he makes some very practical ethical suggestions as well.
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Offline undo11

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Re: Stigmergic Governance Via the Web
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2012, 11:43:27 PM »
Seriously though, Undo; if you haven't already read The Abundance Paradigm, which is Amaterasu's novel about this, you really should.  It isn't that long, and it does explain a lot of things, but depicting a scenario in which people actually live in the manner that Amy suggests.

I would also strongly suggest to Amaterasu that she read both The Celestine Prophecy and (particularly) The Tenth Insight, if she has not already.  Your vision for human society has much in common with that of James Redfield, Amy; and he makes some very practical ethical suggestions as well.

i read it back when she first wrote it! 
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Offline petrus4

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Re: Stigmergic Governance Via the Web
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2012, 11:47:13 PM »
i read it back when she first wrote it!

Have you read my own counterpoint to it yet? ;)
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Offline undo11

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Re: Stigmergic Governance Via the Web
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2012, 11:47:30 PM »
Have you read my own counterpoint to it yet? ;)

nope :D
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Offline Amaterasu

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Re: Stigmergic Governance Via the Web
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2012, 11:55:45 PM »
Seriously though, Undo; if you haven't already read The Abundance Paradigm, which is Amaterasu's novel about this, you really should.  It isn't that long, and it does explain a lot of things, but depicting a scenario in which people actually live in the manner that Amy suggests.

I would also strongly suggest to Amaterasu that she read both The Celestine Prophecy and (particularly) The Tenth Insight, if she has not already.  Your vision for human society has much in common with that of James Redfield, Amy; and he makes some very practical ethical suggestions as well.

I have read the Celestine Prophesy, and if I can find The Tenth Insight, I would love to read it.  I will check the library here - it's small but who knows.  Otherwise I will have to wait until I have the money to order it.

I am sure that the CP influenced My work - and emergence, chaos theory, stigmergy, complexity, the tipping point, free, fractals...and much psychology and economics.
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"If You want peace, take the profit out of war."

 


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