Author Topic: Bob Lazar Library  (Read 19320 times)

Offline zorgon

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Re: Bob Lazar Library
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2011, 05:13:26 PM »
Amateur rocketry may take another hit after loss in Firefox lawsuit
2006 Archived News by Planet News
Friday, December 22, 2006

POCATELLO, Idaho USA — First it was the ride to the launch site that became illegal for experimental (or research) motors.  Now it is the availability of chemicals in which to transport.  A decision handed down in the civil lawsuit against Firefox Enterprises, Inc., brought by the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC), will have serious effect on amateur and experimental rocketeers nationwide.

On December 6, 2006, U.S. District Court Chief Judge B. Lynn Winmill issued a ruling that directed Firefox and CPSC to negotiate a mutually acceptable plan for the enforcement of regulations and applicable law which CPSC has the authority to enforce.  The precedent set in this case will affect similar suppliers of the chemicals used in the manufacture of amateur rocket motors.

Firefox has been a source of pyrotechnic chemicals for amateur rocketeers for years, supplying the various oxidizers and fuels necessary to combine in the appropriate percentages in which to create various rocket fuels.  Whereas hobby rocketry enthusiasts are more commonly affected by the governmental oversight of ATF due to the use of commercially manufactured propellant, CPSC's case against Firefox is unique in that none of the chemicals it sells is considered an explosive.

Therein lies the twist: there is a difference between the ATF and the CPSC.  Firefox is not regulated by the ATF.  ATF regulations and the federal Explosives Control Act only apply to the commerce and storage of explosives, of which the ATF publishes a list annually.  Nothing that Firefox sells is found on the List of Explosives.

And, nothing Firefox sells meets the definition of an explosive.  The company merely sells individual chemicals that can be combined to make a chemical composition that meets the definition of an explosive.  Therefore, because Firefox is not in the business of distributing explosives or explosive materials, the ATF does not regulate Firefox.  As such, Firefox does not need an ATF dealer's permit to operate its business.

On the other hand, the CPSC was created by Congress to reduce or eliminate injuries to consumers caused by dangerous and/or hazardous products.  The regulations that CPSC is applying in the Firefox case are defined in three sources:  1) Federal Hazardous Substance Act (FHSA) at 15 U.S.C. 1261 et seq., 2) the Consumer Product Safety Act (CPS Act) at 15 U.S.C. 2051 et seq., and 3) the regulations of the CPSC at 16 C.F.R.  1500 and 1507.

The judge has set a deadline of January 15, 2007 for CPSC and Firefox to reach an agreement on which chemicals and supplies are to be limited in sales to individuals who do not possess an ATF Explosives Manufacturer's Permit.  While it is possible that this deadline could be extended an additional 30 to 90 days, the judge has stated that if the government and Firefox fail to reach an agreement, he will make the decision for them.

The government's case is asking that the following items be restricted in sales:

“Not sell, give away, or otherwise distribute any chlorate compound, magnesium metal, permanganate compound, peroxide compound, zirconium metal, or any chemical listed at 16 C.F.R. § 1507.2 to any recipient who does not possess a valid manufacturing license for explosives issued by the ATF;"

Not sell, give away or otherwise distribute any of the following chemicals for which the particle size is finer than 100 mesh (or particles less than 150 microns in size) to any recipient who does not possess a valid manufacturing license for explosives issued by the ATF: aluminum and aluminum alloys, magnalium metal, magnesium/aluminum alloys, titanium and titanium alloys, or zinc metal;

Not sell, give away or otherwise distribute any of the following chemicals in an amount greater than one pound per year per recipient to any recipient who does not possess a valid manufacturing license for explosives issued by the ATF:  antimony and antimony compounds, benzoate compounds, nitrate compounds, perchlorate compounds, salicylate compounds or sulfur;

Not sell, give away or otherwise distribute any fuse in an amount greater than 25 feet per year per recipient who does not possess a valid manufacturing license for explosives issued by the ATF.”

In addition, the CPSC called for extensive record keeping (photocopies of drivers licenses and, if applicable, ATF licenses for all recipients, as well as detailed invoices maintained for at least seven years) and requires Firefox’s agreement to provide those records to CPSC at any time on demand.

"Oxidizers" as defined includes: ammonium nitrate, potassium chlorate, potassium perchlorate, potassium nitrate, sodium chlorate, sodium perchlorate, sodium nitrate, barium nitrate, strontium nitrate, potassium permanganate.

"Fuels" as defined includes: aluminum, aluminum alloys, magnesium, magnesium-aluminum alloys, antimony sulfide or trisulfide, potassium benzoate, sodium benzoate, sodium salicylate, sulfur, titanium, zinc, zirconium, or zirconium hydride.

The impact of this decision will weigh heavily in the fireworks community, where the vast majority of participants are not holders of federal ATF explosives permits.  Firefox and similar competitors are suppliers of hobby-oriented quantities to hobby-oriented users.  The stifling restrictions being forced upon the fireworks community will mean that companies like Firefox will simply go out of business.

In the rocketry community, it is now obvious why the ATF's position with regard to amateur rocket motor making has appeared at odds with logic: it is perfectly legal for you to mix and cast your own motors as long as they are for your own use and not for resale without an explosives permit.  It is also perfectly legal for you to fire the same motor on your property without an explosives permit.  But it is not legal for you to transport your creation to an approved launch site without an explosives permit.

And now?  Thanks to the CPSC lawsuit and Judge Winmill, after January of 2007, you may not have any sources left to purchase the materials necessary to make your amateur motors.  Unless, of course, you want to become licensed with the federal government as an manufacturer of explosives. 


Original Source:

Reader comments:

    What kind of... So, does this represent a Liberal Activist Court or a Conservative Activist Court? In all seriousness, this will impact the teaching of chemistry from middle school up, at a time when we are making all sorts of noise about needing better science education and getting more students interested in science careers! I guess we don't need to worry about chemistry teachers getting what they need. Firefox first, Fisher Scientific next. Could this also impact the experimentatino with and production of nanomaterials? We really do need some congressional oversight on this whole issue of what is or is not an explosive. Clearly, the one branch of government has a very narrow view of what explosives are (see also the article on the KNO3-sugar rockets), and another branch is looking for definitions. Write your new representatives! posted by Aphyle on 12-22-2006 09:57 AM

    CPSC ruling. Now the question is "Will we be required to get a manufacturers permit to make our EX motors?" ATF does not require it but it looks like the CPSC will. - Ken posted by ken487 on 12-22-2006 10:27 AM
    After reading the court opinion, I must say that Firefox shot themselves in the foot and deserved to lose this case. The remedy sought by the CPSC is excessive but Firefox has little choice now. - posted by UhClem on 12-22-2006 12:26 PM

    Quote: Now the question is "Will we be required to get a manufacturers permit to make our EX motors?" ATf does not require it but it looks like the CPSC will." Not to "make" the motors, but apparently you will need a manufacturer's permit to purchase the materials to "make" them. I mean, how many EX motors can you make with the permit-free 16oz of oxidizer? The result for ATF is that there is nothing to regulate if you can't purchase the materials to make them. In the fireworks enforcement, CPSC is also looking to regulate purchases of tube longer than 10". What would happen if that were applied to the rocketry community?

Offline zorgon

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Re: Bob Lazar Library
« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2011, 05:15:35 PM »
Sandia Park Company Owner Tells Story Behind Illegal Fireworks Case

Associated Press
Monday, July 23, 2007

When Bob Lazar decided his scientific supply company should offer fuses, tubes and other "things of a fireworks nature,'' he checked first with the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, the FBI, the fire department and building and zoning.

They said everything was fine, so Sandia Park-based United Nuclear Scientific Equipment and Supplies — which consists of Lazar and his wife, Joy White — began selling the items.

They had no idea, Lazar said Monday, about a U.S. Consumer Products Safety Commission rule that prohibits selling items to make fireworks along with information on how to make them. Since United Nuclear's Web site contains information on "how you safely make fireworks,'' that constituted a kit under commission rules, Lazar said.

Lazar said he routinely works with federal agencies because of the nature of the scientific supply business, but he said he never heard from the commission.

The first inkling the couple had of a problem came in 2003 when Lazar and White ended up handcuffed on their front law after an early morning raid by a SWAT team, he said.

"Obviously, these guys thought something else was going on,'' he said.

Scott Wolfson, a spokesman for the Consumer Products Safety Commission in Washington, said the commission investigated, but the raid was conducted by federal law enforcement agents.

While he said he could not address the specific incident, "we know the formula that is used to make highly illegal, highly dangerous fireworks. ... We have had the experience where part of a town has had to be evacuated because of individuals stockpiling chemicals and components used to make illegal fireworks.''

In the case of United Nuclear, nothing further happened until a court hearing last Friday.

U.S. Magistrate Lorenzo Garcia fined the firm $7,500 and placed it on probation for three years. A consent decree limits the amount of fireworks-related chemicals the company can sell; prohibits sales of fuses, tubes and end caps; and requires United Nuclear to destroy remaining components and specified chemicals.

The commission's acting chairwoman, Nancy Nord, last week called the case a victory for consumer safety.

Despite that, Lazar sees the magistrate's decision as a victory for his company because the commission sought $30,000 — a $10,000 fine for each of three times the agency bought the questioned items.

"Our attorney said, 'Get real, these people have never done anything,''' Lazar said.

The commission unnecessarily spent taxpayer money and several years "for something that could have easily been taken care of with a simple phone call or visit, like every other federal agency has done with us,'' he said.

"I remain amazed to this day that that's how this went down,'' he said.

Copyright ©2007 Associated Press. All rights reserved.

Offline zorgon

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Re: Bob Lazar Library
« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2011, 05:18:02 PM »
US v. United Nuclear Scientific Supplies, et al.

Consumer Product Safety Commission Case: CLOSED 12/07

Most recent update 7/24/07 (See end of document)

United States v. Robert Lazar, Joy White, and United Nuclear Scientific Supplies, LLC, Civil No. 06-0866 LCS RLP (D. New Mexico)

United States v. United Nuclear Scientific Supplies, LLC, Criminal No. 06-2008 JP (D. New Mexico)


    On September 14, 2006, the United States filed suit in federal court in the District of New Mexico against Robert Lazar, Joy White, and United Nuclear Scientific Supplies, LLC. The civil complaint seeks injunctive and other equitable relief against the defendants. It alleges that the defendants violated the Federal Hazardous Substances Act, 15 U.S.C.§ 1263, by introducing and delivering for introduction into interstate commerce components intended to produce fireworks that are banned hazardous substances. Click on the hyperlink to view the Complaint.

    9/18/06 Update

    On September 18, 2006, the United States filed a criminal Information in federal court in the District of New Mexico against United Nuclear Scientific Supplies, LLC. The Information alleges that the defendant violated the Federal Hazardous Substances Act, 15 U.S.C.§§ 1263(a) and 1264(a), by delivery of banned hazardous substances. Click on the hyperlink to view the Information.

    9/25/06 Update:

    On September 25, 2006, the Court entered a Consent Decree for Permanent Injunction against Robert Lazar, Joy White, and United Nuclear Scientific Supplies, LLC. The Consent Decree permanently restrains and enjoins the defendants from, among other things, participating in any transaction that involves selling, giving away, holding for sale, or otherwise distributing certain components of fireworks. The Consent Decree resolved the civil complaint. Click on the hyperlink to view the Consent Decree of Permanent Injunction.

    10/2/06 Update:

    On October 2, 2006, the United States filed a plea agreement in federal court in the District of New Mexico resolving the criminal charges against United Nuclear Scientific Supplies, LLC. Click on the hyperlink to view the Plea Agreement. The sentencing date has not yet been scheduled.

    7/6/07 Update:

    Sentencing is set for Friday, July 20, 2007, at 10:00 am, before Magistrate Judge Lorenzo F. Garcia (Pecos Courtroom) in the Pete V. Domenici U.S. Courthouse, 333 Lomas Blvd. N.W., Albuquerque, NM 87102.

    Update 7/24/07:

    On July 20, 2007, United Nuclear was sentenced to pay a fine of $7,500, and to serve three years of probation. See Consumer Product Safety Commission Press Release (7/20/07).

Offline zorgon

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Re: Bob Lazar Library
« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2011, 05:20:49 PM »
Desert Blast

Bob's Rocket Car

Lazar and Gene Huff also run Desert Blast, an annual festival for "explodaholics" in the Nevada desert. Starting in 1987 (but only formally named in 1991, inspired by Desert Storm) the festival features home-made explosives, rockets, jet-powered vehicles, and other pyrotechnics, with the intention of emphasizing the fun aspect of physics.

The only thing that separates the men from the boys
is the amount of dynamite in their toys.

By A.J.S. Rayl
Dec 1994
Wired Magazine

"All clear and ready." Bob Lazar's voice echoes through several hand-held radios.

A hush falls on the crowd of people gathered on one side of this barren, dry lake bed in the middle of Absolutely Nowhere, Nevada. The sun slides behind the mountains and all eyes train on a smoldering pile way out in the distance. Feathers of gray smoke silently snake their way up into the sky.

"She's goin'!" Jim Tagliani bellows.


"Holy shit!"

Seconds later, a deafening explosion cracks the silence of the desert at dusk. Tiny plumes mushroom into a massive furling cloud of black smoke. Red hot flames seethe at the cloud's core. From the outer edges, minute, strobe-like particles fly out and die down on the parched mud floor.

Thummmmbpff! From a launching tube on another part of the lake crater, a shell soars high up into the air and bursts into an array of magenta and glitter that sparkles up the sky. "Whoooo-hoooo!" Laura Godel is exuberant. "That's beautiful," chimes in Linda Wilson.

Meanwhile, Jim Tagliani has strapped a moaning, flame-throwing static Ramjet to his back and is zipping by the crowd on roller skates. In another part of this parched mud arena, Lew Godel takes his position, belly down, face to the dirt, and hits a launch button. A stealth-black rocket emblazoned with the letters D-E-S-E-R-T B-L-A-S-T lifts off and soars up to Mach 1. It may be soaring still.

There's a time and place for everything in this petrochemical world in which we live. There's a time to reap and a time to sow. A time to take massive amounts of bullshit, and a time to vent it all and party down in a gaseous, dynamite celebration of independence. On this particular evening in May, it's time to vent.

Every year since 1987, on a secret date and at a secret location, a group of pyrotechnics wizards stage an annual outlaw gathering out in the desert outback of Nevada. In 1991, patriotically inspired by Desert Storm, the organizers dubbed the event Desert Blast. The group's unwritten code: Bigger and Better Fun through Chemistry and Physics.

"Desert Blast is a celebration of the things an American should be able to do," explains one veteran, who requested anonymity. "And it's about forgetting and having fun, kind of like, Let's go be a kid again."

"Yeah," echoes another attendee, "and not have anyone tell you to shut up!"

Humbly billed as "the largest outlaw fireworks show in the West," Desert Blast is probably the largest outlaw fireworks show in the world. The actual detonation date changes from year to year, as does the location. It's an exclusive affair. As the video invites proclaim: "If you don't know where it is, you're not invited." But for those who are honored with an invitation or those who know somebody who knows somebody who has directions, Desert Blast - or DB, as regulars call it - is the party to end all parties, a party that gives you a place to rant and something to really rave about. In essence it's a night of contained anarchy. The Woodstock of Pyrotechnics.

Desert Blast is the brainchild of Bob Lazar - by day a freelance scientist and businessman - and Jim Tagliani, who pays the bills by installing and programming computers for Indian bingo parlors. As one DB adage goes: Bob builds it; Jim tries it out.

For Lazar, the flame for fireworks was kindled during his youth on Long Island, New York. He spent his summers hanging around several local families who made professional fireworks. "Because I was young, they wouldn't let me touch anything flammable," he remembers. "But I would help tie strings and stuff." Years later, Lazar decided to figure it out for himself.

Lazar's affinity for things pyro slept, latent for nearly two decades of school and work, but in the early '80s, he hooked up with Tagliani, a natural-born daredevil and neighbor in Woodland Hills, California. It was an instant affinity: both were blinded by science. Lazar was working at Fairchild Xincom, he says, a now-defunct electronics firm, when he recommended Tagliani for a technician position there, and the friendship grew. Later, driving through LA one day, the two passed an acquaintance waving a pyrotechnics device. The guy invited them to a gathering of motorcycle freaks being held in a dry lake bed out near El Mirage, California. There, says Lazar, biker pyrotechnicians hosted an explosive fire fest, until their fun was eventually quashed by Bureau of Land Management officers.

According to Lazar's account, he later moved on to Los Alamos National Laboratories in New Mexico, but like many a bomb-crazed scientist, he felt stifled there. So in 1985, he headed for Las Vegas, Nevada. Not long after, Tagliani joined him in the City of Sin. The fireworks flame re-ignited in Lazar and Tagliani, and so they decided to uncover the secrets of pyrotechnics, and put one of Nevada's numerous dry lake beds to use. Their first two desert shows were small, drawing 50 to 75 friends. Lazar personally manufactured all of the fireworks.

But as the two attempted to outdo their work each successive year, planning and executing their private parties became a time-consuming task. In 1988, Lazar enlisted a troop of capable friends. United by chemistry, physics, and electronics, they came from all walks of life and all kinds of day jobs. NASA controllers and electronics specialists. Computer programmers and technicians. Propulsion systems experts and car mechanics. Even real estate appraisers and contractors. Together, they formed the core creation team of Desert Blast.

It takes at least three months and close to US$6,000 to manufacture all of the festive accouterments for the one-night show. "It really is a team effort," says Lazar. "And now there are pyrotechnics conventions that we attend." During the year, the pyro-cohorts meet in their off-hours in a nondescript, concrete reinforced building on private land well outside the city limits of Las Vegas. There, they mix chemicals, roll stars, build rockets, design Sky Cams, and do whatever else seems appropriate and necessary.

As the time nears each year, Linda (aka Crouton) Wilson, Lazar's girlfriend of four years, serves as Desert Blast's assistant coordinator. Laura Godel helps Lazar finesse the electronic devices, while her husband, Lew Godel joins Lazar in the creation and supervision of all rocketry. Dan Stegemann serves as general device assembler, while Shelly Ball, Tagliani's girlfriend, manufactures Teddy, the sacrificial bear whose destruction marks the event's climax.

Word about Desert Blast spread quickly. By 1990, Lazar and Tagliani had learned one thing: if you launch it, fire it, or blow it up, they will come. Hundreds of uninvited spectators appeared from far and wide to witness the show. In 1992, the assemblage swelled to more than 450 people. "And sometimes they'd review the show; give us shit if something wasn't exactly perfect," recalls Gene Huff, who appraises real estate when he's not mixing chemicals and rolling stars.

"It was starting to get out of hand," Lazar sighs.

Lazar's notoriety in the UFO underground no doubt had a lot to do with that. In March 1989, Lazar, fearing for his life, publicly claimed, on KLAS-TV, the Las Vegas CBS affiliate, that he had just been released from a top-secret program, Project Galileo, in which he helped back-engineer the propulsion system of one of nine extraterrestrial craft being stored on the Nellis Gunnery and Bombing Range in Nevada. Overwhelmed with requests for interviews, which he "loathes," plagued with "tons of mail," and adamant about not joining the "crazies" on the UFO or talk-show circuit, Lazar quelled the deluge by producing, with Huff, a videotape about his alleged experience, something that has made him a veritable icon in the UFO haunts of cyberspace.

But that is another story. Commandment Number One at Desert Blast: Thou shalt not talk of UFOs. Nevertheless, "Excerpts From The Government Bible" (otherwise known as the Lazar Tape) has made Lazar a popular guy and someone a whole lot of people want to hang with.

For the last two years, Lazar has diligently faxed out wrong directions and dates to lose a few of the uninvited guests and general pains in the ass, not to mention unwanted law-enforcement types. Desert Blast does not exactly conform to federal regulations.

"Actually, while we were out testing some shells one day, a cop did show up," says Lazar. "He saw what we were doing and just said, 'Cool. Mind if I watch?'"

On Saturday, May 21, the Desert Blast countdown digital clock ticks down to 0:00 at the secret rendezvous location, and final loading begins. Everything has already been packed for transport: More than 400 shells; a single display cart of 100 2 1/2-inch star shells and reports; the giant, double-pinwheel display; bunches of small black-powder rockets with titanium and reports; strobe rockets; various sizes of salutes (including several M-800s); six stealth-black rockets, complete with nose cones and tails; four large barrels of magnesium; 20 gallons of fuel for the gas bombs; propane torches; launching tubes; boxes of extra fuse and wiring; five weather balloons; hardware; a viewing tower made from steel scaffolding; a sound system; boxes of Day-Glo Cyalume sticks and rope; coolers packed with food and water; cameras; and various other items. At around 2:30 p.m., a caravan of some 20 cars, trucks, trailers, and recreational vehicles leaves the highway and begins winding its way through desert terrain down an unmarked dirt road and onto this year's chosen dry lake bed. There, they stagger into a parking line that stretches out along one side, and everyone begins to set up camp.

At center stage, on the lake crater, the first mortar is launched. It soars more than 800 feet into the sky. As it bursts, an American flag on a tiny parachute patriotically unfurls and flaps across the desert on the air currents. DB VIII has begun.

At around 4:30 p.m., Lazar fuels up the Jetcar, dons his fire-retardant jacket and crash helmet, and climbs in. The Jetcar, like your basic dragsters, is comprised of a chromoly steel frame. It's about 32-feet long and its jet engine - originally designed for the Navy's first supersonic fighter - makes the car look not so much futuristic as absurd. A 30-foot flame shoots out the back and the shrill, decibel-defying noise makes you feel as if you've been stranded out on an Air Force tarmac facing the wrong direction. As he rolls in for a pit stop, the afterburner flame swells and shoots out. "Hey! He's on fire!" shouts an uninitiated spectator.

Not to worry. Onto bigger things. It's SuperBomb time. Materials are placed, and the announcement is made. Within seconds, another deafening explosion shatters the earth, this one erupting into an ominous, deep-black, almost-mushroom cloud, and has the crowd on its feet, cheering maniacally. Over on the highway, several miles away, traffic has stopped, and spectators watch in a state of awe or disbelief. Maybe they think they're watching some sort of weird military experiment. But the Desert Blast participants aren't self-conscious. "There is just nothing more exciting than totally blowing something up - and then feeling the shock wave go through you," says Farhat. "You can just stand and watch ... and you feel like you've screamed. It's weird. Really weird. But it feels so good."

Out on the rocket pad, Lazar and Lew (aka The Viking) Godel are preparing the test launch. Godel is the sort who enjoys living wildly. "This is a unique guy," Lazar explains, as Godel hunkers down on the ground near the 5-foot-tall stealth-black rocket that stands majestically against the backdrop of the desert. "He killed a deer once, and then spread the blood all over himself, or whatever it is the Vikings do. Then he took the heart out and ate it."

As night falls, an intermittent stream of cars makes its way down the unmarked road to witness the show, and soon onlookers drape themselves in Day-Glo. It's time for the day's peak, the ultimate fireworks display.

Out at the launching area, youthful newcomer, Jeff Carbary, assumes the task of overseeing the mortars and the main fireworks begin. Before launch, Carbary details the make of each shell for the benefit of the pyro connoisseurs, the gathered crowd of Those Fascinated by Fire. One after another, the fireworks burst in full radiance against the sky, and the audience murmurs its appreciation in hushed and almost reverent ooohhhs and aaahhhs.

Finally, it's time to blow up Teddy, a tradition at Desert Blast. Teddy originally came from Tagliani's home Halloween yard art. He and Ball initially decided to take Teddy to DB as a sort of mascot. "At first, we used to let him just hang around," recalls Shelly Ball. "But, we needed a goal - something to destroy, and we realized, 'Hey, we can shoot Teddy.'" So, Teddy quickly became a target, replacing the Saddam Hussein paper targets on the shooting range. "We'd put beer bottles or Coke cans in his pockets; then we graduated to M-80s, then M-800s," says Ball. "It was a challenge to see who could shoot his pockets first. Ultimately, we'd blow his arms off, then maybe a leg or two. But Teddy was still left, more or less."

The next year, they decided instead to just put Teddy on a Coors Party Ball gas bomb and blow him to bits. That approach, or a similar concept, has stuck.

As the sun rises over the mountains, it's cleanup time for Lazar and Tagliani and the rest of the core DB team. They rise, scouring the desert for any remaining debris, bagging it for disposal. All the escaped dirt is shoveled back into the holes, and the dry lake bed is restored to its original condition. By 10 a.m., all tents have been dismantled and all waste discreetly stored in the back of trucks or car trunks. There are virtually no signs that anything unusual took place here - no signs that just hours before, nearly 200 people had gathered for a night of living dangerously. As the sun begins to bake the valley, the DB caravan heads out, back to civilization for another year.

A.J.S. Rayl ( is currently finishing work on a CD-ROM about the search for extraterrestrial intelligence for The Voyager Company. She has also written for Omni, People, and Rolling Stone.

Copyright © 1993-2004 The Condé Nast Publications Inc. All rights reserved.

Copyright © 1994-2003 Wired Digital, Inc. All rights reserved.

SOURCE: Wired Magazine

Offline zorgon

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Re: Bob Lazar Library
« Reply #19 on: October 13, 2011, 05:22:31 PM »
Desert Blast

Bob Lazar on motorcycle at event

Lazar in jet car (72K) Lazar, it turns out, is alive and well and living in Las Vegas (far from any buffet, however, which seems to defeat the purpose). Every year, Lazar and his friends put on a top secret, invitation-only fireworks show in the desert. ("If you don't know where it is, you're not invited.") Whatever bad you can say about Lazar, he does make good fire. He and his crew have been blowing things up since long before his "S-4" claims. This year, for some unfathomable reason, Psychospy got an invitation. We were sworn to secrecy about time, place and explosive yields and ordered not to discuss UFOs at the event. This was a serious endeavor to make things go "Boom," and we had to obey the rules. We were allowed one guest, so naturally we invited Jarod.

A previous Desert Blast was reported in the Dec. 1994 issue of Wired Magazine [article with photos]. This year was a more subdued event, however, with everyone on edge since McVeigh and company in Oklahoma City gave homemade explosives a bad name. This year, there was no "Big Bomb," which we understand is usually the equivalent of a Ryder truck packed with fertilizer. There were only lessor bombs, fireworks and displays of various jet-propelled contraptions. Lazar cranked up his jet car and took it for a spin on the lake bed. A potentially faster rocket car was fired up in a static display; this missile-shaped vehicle has no wheels, only runners, because the owners hope to break the land speed record--on ice. There were many miscellaneous explosions all through the night and into the morning. The fireworks were top-rate, and Psychospy helped release a glowing, helium-filled "UFO" into the sky, which we sincerely hope caused a rash of sightings downwind.

Desert Blast gave us an opportunity to introduce Jarod to Lazar for the first time (or so they claim). Nothing of consequence was discussed, but the meeting still struck us as ironic, especially if you think Lazar has lied. It is like a story from The Twilight Zone: A writer invents a fictional character and writes a novel about him, which, to sell it to a publisher, he passes off as a real account. Then one day the doorbell rings, and that character, in the flesh, walks in the door.

There are numerous other possible storylines, of course. Lazar and Jarod could both be employed by the same sinister intelligence agency bent on spreading disinformation. Alternatively, maybe Lazar hired Jarod to "confirm" his story and give his movie deal a boost. Every explanation is fascinating in itself and deserves a novel of its own.

SOURCE: The Groom Lake Desert Rat

Offline zorgon

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Re: Bob Lazar Library
« Reply #20 on: October 13, 2011, 05:33:40 PM »
Zeta Reticuli Aliens: Robert Lazar





Offline zorgon

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Re: Bob Lazar Library
« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2011, 05:44:49 PM »
Area 51 Revisited Part 1 - Bob Lazar at C2C 15th Nov 2009

George Knapp interviews Bob Lazar, Gene Huff and John Lear on Coast to Coast



Bob Publicly Apologizes to John about the water on the Moon

Bob explains his position... must listen to this one..

Bob confirms that the Bob Lazar's posting on facebook are NOT HIM, but imposters. He doesn't post on ANY social networks










« Last Edit: October 13, 2011, 05:50:13 PM by zorgon »

Offline zorgon

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Re: Bob Lazar Library
« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2011, 01:52:59 AM »

Bob Lazar stated that the “Sport Model” Flying Disc amplified the “Strong Nuclear Force” of Element 115 (UnUnPentium or UUP) to generate the gravity field for “Space-Time Compression.”  Bob also stated that the U.S. Government had 500 pounds of Element 115 in their possession.  The raw Element 115 was given to the U.S. Goverment at S4 by the Reticulan EBEs in the form of discs.  The scientists at S4 sent the Element 115 discs through Groom Lake to Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico, to be milled for use in the Anti-Matter Reactor.  The Los Alamos personnel were told it was a new form of armor.  They simply followed orders, milled it in accordance with the following steps, and sent it back to Groom Lake.  It was during this process that some of the Element 115 turned up missing.  As you’ll see below, the machining process to form the Element 115 wedge produces a tremendous amount of waste.

ELEMENT 115 - Kenneth F. Wright

This latest scientific breakthrough, however, provides significant credibility to Bob Lazar’s claims rather than discrediting his claims.  Bob Lazar’s Element 115 discs used to make the wedge for the “Sport Model” Flying Disc Anti-Matter Reactor would have to have been the isotope of Element 115 containing the magic number of 184 neutrons, therefore, having an atomic mass of 299.  The nuclear configuration of this isotope of Element 115 would be identical to the nuclear configuration of the only known stable isotope of Element 83, Bismuth, 83Bi209, containing the magic number of 126 neutrons, except that the Element 115 isotope would have one more energy level completely filled with protons and neutrons.  82 protons and 114 protons are magic numbers for protons because 82 protons completely fill 6 proton energy levels and 114 protons completely fill 7 proton energy levels.  The 83rd proton for Bismuth is a lone proton in the 7th proton energy level and the 115th proton for Element 115 is the lone proton in the 8th proton energy level.  126 neutrons completely fill 7 neutron energy levels and 184 neutrons completely fill 8 neutron energy levels.  Refer to the Nucleon Energy Level Table for Bismuth and Element 115, below, for the nuclear configurations of Bismuth and Element 115.  This stable isotope of Bismuth, Element 83, has very unique gravitational characteristics.  Refer to the Henry William Wallace Patent:  U.S. Patent 3,626,605, “Method and Apparatus for Generating a Secondary Gravitational Force Field.”

Nucleon Energy Levels for Bismuth and Element 115

Kenneth F. Wright


Books by Ken Wright

Nuclear Gravitation Field Theory $9.95

Gravity Warp Drive - Supporting Documents $9.95
« Last Edit: October 18, 2011, 01:57:31 AM by zorgon »

Offline zorgon

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Re: Bob Lazar Library
« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2011, 01:53:53 AM »

As the intensity of the gravitational field around the disc increases, the distortion of space/time around the disc also increases. If you could see the space/time distortion, which we can't, this is how it would look.

    As the gravitational field from the amplifiers becomes more intense, the form of the space/time around the disc not only bends upward, but at maximum distortion, actually folds over into almost a heart shape around the top of the disc.

    This space/time distortion is taking place 360 degrees around the disc, creating a volume of distortion, so if you were looking at the disc from the top, the space/time distortion would be in the shape of a donut as it enclosed the disc.

    When the gravitational field around the disc is so intense that the space/time around the disc achieves maximum distortion, the disc can't be seen from any vantage point and, for all practical purposes, is invisible.  All you would se would be the sky around it.

    At various angles prior to the disc achieving maximum distortion, the disc could be visible from one vantage point and not another.  All you could see would be the environment around it. This is similar to being able to see stars that are behind the sun, due to the intense gravity of the sun bending the light path between the star and earth.

    Essentially, this creates a sort of space-time bubble around the craft. "Maximum distortion" is not necessary for standard flight over the surface of a planet. Except in the case of rapid "streaks" across the sky. Maximum distortion is essential for this mode of travel. The typical fire light comet in the night sky is not the craft, but rather the air around the craft ionizing and trailing it.

 ~ Bob Lazar

Bob Lazar's Website (Still Closed)

Bob's Mirror Site
« Last Edit: October 18, 2011, 02:00:13 AM by zorgon »

Offline zorgon

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Re: Bob Lazar Library
« Reply #24 on: October 20, 2011, 08:17:07 PM »
  John Lear

Lazar Regression Transcribed August 10, 1989

Here is Bob's second regression which I taped and transcribed. I will post 2 pages a day:

Offline zorgon

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Re: Bob Lazar Library
« Reply #25 on: October 20, 2011, 08:21:19 PM »

Offline A51Watcher

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Re: Bob Lazar Library
« Reply #26 on: November 16, 2011, 10:14:53 PM »
Gene Huff's Response to "Lazar Theory #1"

Recently, the following post was made by Glenn Campbell, known to most of you as "Goober". A recent assassination of Goober by an anonymous person on the Internet has been attributed to me and has been alleged to be my response to this recent posting. That is not true and I'll go into that in another post. However, here is my actual response to the post by Goober.

I don't think I necessarily need to respond to every line so I'll just cut in and out to the important points. What everyone must realize is that posts like this are nothing new to the net. This is simply one of those fishing trips in which someone posts lies and then waits for someone to respond with the actual, true, information so they can then adjust their info and use it in a book or an article they intend to write down the road.

If you'll notice, Goober says this is "one" possible scenario, not "the" scenario, meaning there are more to come. I have no intention of playing that game, but I'll respond to this one so you can see how the fishing trip works. Keep it in mind as this won't happen again. The only reason Goober even started this attack is because the kids who run the Tri-Dot web page have been implying that they're going to post something about Goober being a paid government liar. I don't think he is that.

"As a "librarian" for the UFO field (through the Ufomind website), it is not my job to make conclusions."

Notice he starts out with a hallucination.

"Instead I simply collect the relevant documents and let others draw conclusions from them. I can, however, propose theories and draw attention to specific earthly facts that are beyond doubt."

Keep this statement in mind as we proceed. There are no documents even remotely involved here.

"his (Lazar's) story isn't worth my own time to further investigate."

If Lazar's story isn't worth the time to further investigate, what is Goober doing writing the first of a series of articles about it? The real reason is that Lazar is the hottest topic in ufology and the most highly sought ufological interview in the world. Goober has tried to stop that with deception but, fortunately for those seeking the truth, no one listens. He wants to divert attention from himself at this moment, for reasons you all know. Generally, he wants the attention that is Lazar's and he perpetually covets that notoriety.

"Lazar made up the story on his own based on his own significant technical knowledge, his peripheral work with a contractor on the Nellis Range and the prior Area 51 alien claims of John Lear (aliens eating humans in a vast underground base), which Lazar "cleaned up" and made more plausible."

Notice that in this scenario, Lazar has significant technical knowledge and had peripheral work with a contractor on the Nellis Range. Quite interesting for a guy with no education and no credentials as Goober has alleged in the past.

"According to this theory, Area "S-4" is a corruption of "Site 4", a real Top Secret radar installation northwest of Area 51 (not south at Papoose Lake). It was a place that no one could talk about in 1989 because purloined Soviet radar were tested there. Lazar has probably never been to Site 4, but he could have heard the name."

Please! I was the first one to audibilize (actually type) the fact that there was more than one S4 on the Nellis Range and that it was known as Site 4, not S4, and Glenn Campbell knows that. Now I can't say that neither Tom Mahood nor Glenn Campbell had ever heard this as I can't know what goes on in their empty little heads, but if Goober honestly did not know this, then you'll have to check with Mahood. I don't really even recall if it was on Usenet or in email, but if you cancheck with Mahood and catch him on one of those rare occasions he tells the truth, I'm sure he'll confirm that this is true. Campbell is acting as though Site 4 is a name Lazar may have heard of. Site 4 is a place Goober may have heard of, from me. I'll take a polygraph if necessary to prove that is true. Bob Lazar, and all of his many friends knew of Site 4 a half decade before Goober escaped out here to Nevada. If Lazar had "corrupted" Site 4 into S4, don't you think that people like myself, Joe Vaninetti, (A friend of Lazar's who worked with Lazar at Los Alamos and who also did work for Los Alamos out here at Yucca Flats on the Nevada Test Site), and Jim Tagliani, (a friend of Lazar's who worked out at the Tonopah Test Range when the Stealth Fighters were there) would have noticed? If this was a giant conspiracy and a big lie, wouldn't we have told Bob to change the S4 name because of that? This is ludicrous, even for Goober.

"What was Lazar's motivation? Money."

Bob Lazar's father is a wealthy Los Angeles businessman and Bob has had a standing offer to work for/with him in California anytime he wants, and at a helluva (six figure) salary. Lazar stayed with science because it's his love and that devotion resulted in him being part of the ET disc back engineering team.

"Under Theory #1, Lazar cooked up the story to obtain funding from Las Vegas philanthropist Robert Bigelow, who was known to sponsor far-out projects. (Bigelow is still investing millions in parapsychology and UFO research but is intensely secretive about his activities.)"

Lie. I defy any of you to name one project that Bob Bigelow was known to have funded prior to Bob Lazar going public. What's that I hear, silence? Goober is trying to twist the facts here. Bigelow was only known post Lazar. Bigelow might have been known in real estate development circles back then, but not in ufology. Bob Bigelow first met Bob Lazar after he saw George Knapp's UFOs, The Best Evidence on television. He saw that I was a real estate appraiser and called my office. He explained that he was simply a money man and wanted to get involved with any sort of research. Ultimately we met with him and things proceeded from there. It is true that Bigelow has since invested big bucks in a wide range of projects. If there were any prior to Lazar, don't you think Campbell would have mentioned them? There simply weren't any and Campbell knows that. If Bigelow was unknown, and he was unknown, how would Lazar have known about him? This is beneath even Goober. I can take a polygraph lest anyone think I'm not truthful about Bigelow.

"In fact, Bigelow did set up a Nevada corporation for Lazar, the Zeta Reticuli 2 Corp., shortly after Lazar went public. It was apparently created to fund Lazar's research into "Element 115," which Lazar initially claimed he had samples of. (The government has since "taken them back."

And exactly how was it "apparently" to fund research into element 115? Have any of you seen Campbell provide any evidence of this? Where's all of this paperwork he directed your attention to earlier in this article? I'll show you some. Since MaWoody and Goober (Mahood and Campbell)seem to think that this is so intriguing, I'm going to do those of you on the net a favor. I'm going to actually post, with Bob Lazar's permission, the actual patent application from that research. It was not for particle beam weapons like Mahood alleges, it was not for 115 research like Campbell alleges. Just wait, and you can take a look for yourselves. I'll provide the paperwork to reality, not Campbell. He talks a good game, but I'll produce. There's a difference. However, it makes this fishing trip more successful for him, but I'll do it for those interested in the truth.

"While the existence of the corporation is a matter of public record, we do not know how much Bigelow spent. We do know that the project did not last long, and that Bigelow felt somehow burned by Lazar (according to sources who have known Bigelow)."

Yes, of course, unknown sources who have known Bigelow. How convenient. Don't these sources still know Bigelow or did they burn him, too? Well here's a source who witnessed the whole thing and I am known and I know Lazar and Bigelow. The actual story of how things broke down would be so humiliating to Bigelow that I won't waste it on the net, I'll save it for the book. However, Bigelow more or less just rented the warehouse space as most of the equipment moved there was Lazar's. Bigelow did buy 2 computers and a YAG rod, (Yttrium, Aluminum, Garnet) for a laser, but that was about it. Lazar was not given any large chunks of money but was paid a very modest salary for which Bigelow was very demanding. Bigelow's background is in construction and Real Estate development, (He was actually an appraiser a long time ago) and he's used to timetables being kept, etc. Research and Development does not always go that smooth and Mr. Bigs gets easily frustrated when he doesn't get his way. Stanton Friedman agrees with that after having associated with Bigelow.

"Under this theory, Lear, Gene Huff, George Knapp and other supporters were patsies, not co-conspirators. They were tools used by Lazar in pursuit of Bigelow, and later they were his defenders and his protection against having to answer too many questions."

Lazar has not only answered "too many questions" but submitted to two different polygraph sessions by two different polygraphers, gave former NASA robotics expert Bob Oechsler, written, notorized permission for Oechsler to check out Lazar's IRS and Social Security records to prove that he was paid by the Navy, etc. Most of this was right after Lazar went public and George Knapp didn't know Lazar from Adam. The only patsies here are those who read Goober's gibberish and accumulate a knowledge base of nonsense. Not too mention that no one had ever heard of Bigelow.

By the way, Oechsler found out that Lazar's IRS and FICA files were classified. Quite unusual for a guy who is being accused of making up a UFO story, don't you think? Oechsler also found out that the E6722MAJ on Lazar's W-2 (that's from memory so I might have misstated a letter or number there) meant that this code meant Department of Energy, Kirtland Air Force Base, and the point of contact was MAJ, (yes, we're back to the Majestic codes). This was eight years ago and Lazar has answered more questions than anyone in ufology, period.

"The government itself was taken by surprise by Lazar's claims. It may have indeed conducted its own investigation to see if any classified information was release (since Lazar did have a security clearance). Real FBI agents like "Mike Thigpin" could have visited Lazar. Recall that in 1989, the Cold War was not yet over, and secrecy at Area 51 was still extreme."

Really? And how does Goober know Lazar had a security clearance? Where's the paper trail? He heard me, Knapp, or maybe even Lazar himself say that and has not checked out or verified one thing. I point this out to simply show that Goober hasn't substantiated anything positive or negative about Lazar. The man's name was Mike Thigpen, not Thigpin, and he was an OFI agent, not an FBI agent. The OFI is a pseudo-secret organization that is involved in background checks of people who get high clearances at the Nevada Test Site, Nellis Test Range (and elsewhere I presume). They have a local Las Vegas office, though they're not listed in the phone book, and are based out of the Office of Personnel Management back in Pennsylvania. Sorry to throw so many facts into Goober's stupid little story.

"Lazar, however, has never been to Area 51. I can say this with confidence after talking to people who have. While no one can say whether Lazar has ever been to Papoose Lake, which is still a closed area, the claim that he had flew to Area 51 enroute to Papoose should have been easily provable. Lazar should be able to describe innocuous details of the place, like what the cafeteria or plane arrival area looked like. Lazar has never done this, even though he supposedly revealed much bigger secrets."

What?! Not only did Lazar identify where the cafeteria was, he identified where the vending machines and television(s) in the cafeteria were. Do you think George Knapp honestly never asked these questions or tried to double check or verify this information? Goober must be crazy.

However, Bob Lazar is no authority on Area 51 as he didn't work there. The only time he went to the cafeteria was when he was taken there to wait on his first night out there, the night they made all of the security threats to him. After that, Lazar was simply transferred to the bus with the blacked out windows and taken down to S4. In fact, he identified that he was at Papoose by using estimated speed, the time on his watch, and direction, meaning the glow of the setting sun over the mountains to the west, to figure out that he was at Papoose. The base was only known as S4, they didn't call it Papoose. Of course the actual determining factor of his assessment of the location of S4 was by the size of the dry lake bed outside of the hangars.

George Knapp was a news anchor at the KLAS, the Las Vegas CBS affiliate, at this point in time and had, and has, many great contacts with people who have worked at A-51 in varying capacities from executives to laborers. Questioning Lazar about area 51 was one of the first things he did. Goober could have asked and found this out, presuming he doesn't actually know it, and I would find that hard to believe, but he did not ask. He lies and thus the fishing trip. Is everybody having fun? The bottom line is, not fishing line, that Lazar was usually at area51 when it was dusk or dark and he is by no stretch of the imagination an authority on where all of the buildings and hangars are. However, he did identify the obvious, years ago and to say that he has not is a complete bullshit story and Campbell knows that.

"Some former Area 51 workers have seen so little of their workplace that they cannot completely dismiss the Lazar claims, but they do know the cafeteria. One former Area 51 worker who has queried Lazar on these questions regards him as evasive. There is no doubt in his mind that Lazar is a fraud."

Right. Another anonymous, alleged, informant who has questioned Lazar. What's his name? What's wrong with letting it be known that he questioned Lazar, especially if Lazar gave the wrong answer? I can answer that. This informant doesn't exist. There is no doubt in this alleged anonymous person's mind that Lazar is a fraud. How convenient. He's unknown to everyone else, but Goober knows him and he agrees with Goober! What a surprise! Did he submit to a polygraph? Lazar did. Lazar correctly answered the area51 questions and this has been confirmed. People who read Goober seem to think that Lazar walks around answering test questions for complete strangers. Would any of you do that? Without knowing who they were or why they wanted to talk to you? Of course not, but you exist in reality and the informant and these alleged questions do not.

"The "Element 115" claim could have come from contemporary articles on exotic elements, such as one in Scientific American in May 1989. Like Papoose Lake, Lazar's claims about Element 115 can not be disproven because no one has been there."

Wait a minute. Lazar told me, Lear, Vaninetti, Tagliani, their wives and all of their girlfriends and the rest of our social circle about 115 long before May of 1989. It doesn't wash Goob.

"I don't mean "fraud" in any negative sense, however."

Of course not. Why would anyone think that Goober lying and erroneously calling Lazar a fraud would be negative?!:) What he means is that if he keeps lying and twisting what little he knows, you might not keep buying his Lazar products.

"For one thing he made Area 51 the most popular secret base in the world."

Wow! For the first time ever, Goober admits that Lazar made area51 famous, not him! Maybe Goober takes short vacations into reality after all.

"In a sense, Lazar's story is a lot deeper than he is."

Of course, Goober doesn't know Bob Lazar at all and has no idea how deep or shallow he might be. He'd like you to think he's providing insight, instead of bullshit.

"Fraud thrives in conditions of secrecy, like that found at Area 51 or in the Bigelow organization."

Well, we all know Goober's a fraud and he's the type that thrives via area 51, but maybe he could give us examples of how fraud thrives in the Bigelow organization. No, on second thought, he can't think that fast. He already told us he doesn't know anything about Bigelow. Bigelow isn't all that secretive, but he only talks to intellectuals and players, not the riff-raff like Goober.

"It also thrives where people want to believe something really badly. Clever con men are opportunists who exploit self-deceptions that already exist. They exploit existing beliefs and real circumstances to serve their own needs, and they tell the believers exactly what they want to hear."

You mean like a con man who moves from Boston to the Nevada desert to exploit literally everyone and everything? This is the absolute most explicit description of Glenn Campbell/Goober that I've ever read. Here he is, flaunting it in your faces while laughing at you behind your backs and you can't see it.

"(I should note, however, that my own interest in the Lazar story brought me to Nevada in 1992 and lead me to my current career as a "UFO webmaster." Lazar inspired me with his stick-to-the-facts demeanor in interviews, which I still find impressive and have tried to emulate. As an unofficial spokesman for Area 51, I have probably done things that have given Lazar more credibility than he deserves, like not dismissing on camera, but I have no regrets about leaving the door open. True or false, I feel the Lazar story has enriched my life in many interesting ways.)"

Yes, of course. The reason Lazar has credibility is because an unknown like Campbell doesn't dismiss Lazar on camera. Thanks Goob! You're so kind. Maybe Lazar will send you a thank you note. Those of you reading this should keep Campbell's above paragraph in mind when you read my commentary in another post about the recent assassination of Goober on the Internet. Remember, he moved here because of Lazar and tries to emulate Lazar and says Lazar has enriched his life. How many of you can say something that is that sad and simultaneously that sick and keep a straight face?:) None of you, I hope.

"I am not saying that anyone can "prove" Theory #1. There will always be ways for believers to believe. But of the theories currently available, this is the one that best fits the facts."

Maybe Goober could summarize those facts for us as I haven't seen any. Lazar has a wealthy father, Bigelow was unknown, Lazar identified area 51, or what he saw of it which included the cafeteria, precisely, etc.

The only facts in this post are from me.

"This theory raises logical questions that any journalist could ask Lazar, like: "When you got off the plane at Area 51, what did you see?" But no unbiased journalist has gotten close to Lazar in years."

Unbiased is the key word here. You see for Goober to be the authority George Knapp would have to be to close to Lazar to detach and ask the tough questions. Knapp did that, almost a decade ago, and Lazar passed with flying colors. Lazar did an interview, in Mike Lindemann's book, where another physicist who worked at the Stanford Linear accelerator was present. Lazar met, an talked at length, with Dr. Edgar Mitchell, astronaut and sixth man on the moon with a Ph.D. in aeronautics and astronautics. Lazar took a polygraph. Lazar gave Oechsler permission to check his records. Lazar has met with numerous people throughout the years, professionals and amateurs, and he's answered all of the tough questions, tougher than Goober can think of.

"Lazar and his story may still have a lot to teach us about the UFO field, but it isn't the lesson Lazar intended."

Wrong. It is specifically the lesson that Lazar intended and Goober has no insight as to what that is. The lesson is that in the late 1980s the U.S. government was back engineering ET craft at a base known as S4 in south central Nevada, a half decade +or- before Goober arrived.

As you can see Goober Campbell provided no paperwork, no names, and only alleged facts based on things he can't tell you. Well, take a look at the post named "lazar/Bigelow Patent" or something to that effect and see the patent filed by Bigelow and Lazar. It'll be coming right after I post this.

As the hallucinating, self professed UFO librarian and unofficial spokesperson for Area 51, he has said nothing and offered nothing. See my "Trials and Tribulations of Goober" post for my commentary on his recent net/legal problems.

Offline A51Watcher

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Re: Bob Lazar Library
« Reply #27 on: November 19, 2011, 09:09:32 PM »

The following excerpt from the darkgovernment website provides some interesting details -

"Face it, Bob Lazar is the main reason the public is aware of Goom Lake (and to a lesser extent, Papoose Lake) today. Whether his tale is true or not, when he went public in 1989, he ignited a firestorm of interest in Area 51 which burns to this day. As most of you already know, Lazar described how he was flown from Las Vegas to Groom Lake, then taken on a bus with blacked out side windows to a facility he determined was known as S-4.

Now when Lazar arrived at S-4, he wasn't warmly greeted with a "Howdy Bob, this here underground facility is under the Papoose Mountains and that there dry lake over there is Papoose Lake." He was simply driven in the bus for about 30 minutes and there he was. At some later date, he, Gene Huff, and John Lear got together and worked out where it must have been, based upon various clues Lazar noted during the trip. From what they deduced, S-4 would have to be on the east side of Papoose Lake, where the Papoose Mountains slope down to meet it. Since the short flight test of the one disc he witnessed took place on the dry lake bed, the edge of the dry lake must have been very close to the installation.

Lazar described the facility to Timothy Good as being built into the base of the Papoose Range, with 9 hangar doors sloped at about a 60 degree angle. He said the doors had a sand-like texture coating to them, and Gene Huff later said the doors were rollup type doors. There were 9 of the hangar bays in all.

Per Lazar, the disc he described as the "Sport Model" had an approximate diameter of 52'. Allowing for adequate work clearance, it's reasonable to assume a hangar bay would be at least 70' wide. So for 9 bays, the overall length of the facility would have to be at least 630', maybe more.

On the "Billy Goodman Happening" radio show, Lazar described the dirt road the bus took to S-4 as a "good dirt road." When a caller asked him if the facility was underground, he replied, "No, it's not underground; it's just butt up against the side of a little mountain, a little hill kind of, but it's kind of inside the mountain."

A while back, Gene Huff and I had a Usenet exchange of questions and answers on the subject of S-4. I was digging around for details that might have been overlooked in the past. A few interesting items (at least to me) did turn up out of the exchange. The following are excerpts of three exchanges that have been combined in to one Q&A session. I deleted information not pertaining to the S-4 topic. As you read it, remember that what you are reading are Gene Huff's replies to the questions, as he remembers what Lazar told him. In that sense, it is second hand and errors or other distortions may be introduced:


Did the bus drop off Lazar in front of the hangars, do a U turn and return to Groom, or did the bus remain on site?


-No, there was an area enclosed with a chain link fence on the non-hangar side of the installation and they entered through that side. Apparently the installation is/was on a corner of one of the jags in the mountain. The only night he entered through the hangar side was the first night they showed him the sport model which is the night he walked right by it and rubbed his hand on it. He and Mariani went inside after they were dropped off so he never knew the time schedule or whereabouts of the bus after that.-


Do I understand you correctly that the facility passed completely through a ridge, with the hangars on one side and the "entrance" on the other?


-"Through a ridge" might be somewhat misleading. I don't think Bob was enough places in the facility to state that it passed through an entire ridge. However, yes, it did pass through the corner of a jag/ridge in the mountain. The hangars were on one side of the corner and the pedestrian entrances were around the corner from that.


What was the size of the chain linked area and could it have been visible from certain directions?


-I don't know and I've never heard Bob guestimate that. In fact, you're the first one who's ever been that interested. This chain link fence was big enough to have gates on it and the gates were opened to allow the bus in.-


Since you said one night he entered through the hangar side after Lazar was dropped off, I assumed the bus pulled up in front of the hangars instead of he and Mariani walking around the hill.


-I should have clarified that, as that must also be the reason you thought Bob should have been more aware of a synthetic tarmac if there was one. That night the bus dropped them off at the regular spot and, when Bob started walking toward the door, Mariani said, "We need to go this way tonight, Bob". Then they walked around the corner, more or less hugging the building and entered through the hangar side. If I remember correctly, there was also another gate they had to go through to get to the hangars. I think this gate was simply the side of the chain link enclosed area which the bus entered.-

So in summary, what have we been told by Lazar and company? That S-4 is on the east side of a dry lake (most probably Papoose Lake), about a 30 minute bus ride from Groom via a good dirt road. The facility seems to be either built into a ridge spine, or disguised as a ridge spine, with portions of the facility being on either side. The hangar side must be at least 600' long, perhaps longer. There is a chain link fence with a gate surrounding the personnel entrance, but it's possible to walk around to the other side of the ridge to access the hangar area directly."
« Last Edit: November 19, 2011, 10:46:43 PM by A51Watcher »

Offline A51Watcher

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Re: Bob Lazar Library
« Reply #28 on: November 19, 2011, 09:22:31 PM »
Another interesting excerpt from the DG site reports a sighting by Mark Farmer -

Sightings in the Area

While sightings accounts are not quite as substantial as eyewitness, on-site descriptions of what might be going on at Papoose, they should be considered. Probably the vast majority of sightings made near Area 51 may be dismissed as the misinterpretation of aircraft testing and wargames. Then there are the just plain stupid ones, like the mis-dentification of the landing lights of the incoming Janet flights to Groom as "Old Faithful". Still, after all the even remotely questionable sightings are discarded, there remain a few by credible observers.

As an example, one of the sightings I have some knowledge of was made by Mark Farmer. I know Mark and have a lot of respect for his knowledge of aircraft and various forms of cutting edge technology. On a visit to the area, in January of 1994, on a Wednesday night, he was in the desert off Hwy. 375, west of Hancock Summit. At 10:14 PM, he observed a glowing light rise in the southwest from behind the mountains. The bearing of the light was not that of the Groom base, but rather more to the south. Although he had no solid idea of the distance, the bearing would put it in line with the Papoose area.

As he watched it for the next hour and 45 minutes, it made sharp, instantaneous horizontal movements, near-instantaneous turns, then it would slowly wobble for minutes at a time, then become rock solid.

Although his photographs show little more then an interesting light streak, he reports that through his Celestron telescope the object appeared as an oblate spheroid (a squashed ball). The upper most portion appeared crimson, and the bottom most portion was green. The area in between was a golden color. He said it appeared the colors were the result of some sort of discharge, and than the colors obscured whatever might be below.

Offline zorgon

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Re: Bob Lazar Library
« Reply #29 on: December 02, 2011, 04:55:08 PM »

Element 115, the key to understanding how the ultra-secret "Black World" has created aircraft capable of manipulating gravity and space/time, has been identified, and the recent discovery of element 118, which decayed into element 114, further helps identify the possibilities.

The most important attribute of this heavier, stable element is that the gravity A wave is so abundant that it actually extends past the perimeter of the atom. These heavier, stable elements literally have their own gravity A field around them, in addition to the gravity B field that is native to all matter.

The Key To Gravity-Control Systems

No naturally occurring atoms on earth have enough protons and neutrons for the cumulative gravity A wave to extend past the perimeter of the atom so you can access it. Now even though the distance that the gravity A wave extends past the perimeter of the atom is infinitesimal, it is accessible and it has amplitude, wave length, and frequency, just like any other wave in the electromagnetic spectrum. Once you can access the gravity A wave, you can amplify it just like we amplify other electromagnetic waves.

And in like manner, the gravity A wave is amplified and then focused on the desired destination to cause the space/time distortion required for practical space travel.

This amplified gravity A wave is so powerful that the only naturally occurring source of gravity that could cause space/time to distort this much would be a black hole.

We're amplifying a wave that barely extends past the perimeter of an atom until it's large enough to distort vast amounts of space/time.


We synthesize heavier, unstable elements by using more stable elements as targets in a particle accelerator. We then bombard the target element with various atomic and sub-atomic particles. By doing this, we actually force neutrons into the nucleus of the atom and in some cases merge two dissimilar nuclei together. At this point, transmutation occurs, making the target element a different, heavier element.

As an example, in the early 80's, the lab for heavy ion research in Darmshtot, Germany synthesized some element 109 by bombarding Bismuth 203 with Iron 59. And to show you how difficult it is to do this, they had to bombard the target element for a week to synthesize 1 atom of element 109. And on that subject, this same lab has projected that in the future they should be able to bombard Curium 248 with with Calcium 48 to yield element 116 which will then decay through a series of nuclides which are unknown to them, but are well known to the scientists at S4 located within the complex of the Groom Lake "Area 51" installation.

The length of time which an element exists before it decays determines its stability. Atoms of some elements decay faster than atoms of other elements, so the faster an element decays, the more unstable that element is considered to be. When an atom decays, it releases or radiates sub-atomic particles and energy, which is the radiation that a Geiger counter detects.

Alien Craft

The reactor found in the alien craft at S4, as widely mentioned by physicist Robert Lazar is primarily based on a superheavy element with an atomic number of 115. Element 115 will be designated as "Ununpentium" according to IUPAC guidelines. Its periodic designation and electron configuration appear in the diagram at the top of the page.

Article Appears on several websites with no author or copyright info

Super Heavy Elements Discovered -

Super Heavy Elements Discovered -

Super Heavy Elements Discovered -
« Last Edit: December 02, 2011, 05:05:55 PM by zorgon » USA, LLC
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