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Author Topic: marcus allen and the nasa pics  (Read 16088 times)

Offline ArMaP

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Re: marcus allen and the nasa pics
« Reply #30 on: July 01, 2012, 11:48:58 AM »
For those that say that this side of the LM should be dark, why aren't the buildings dark in the following photo?


The Sun is visible, the side of the buildings turned to the camera and opposite the Sun are clearly visible.

If the Sun is not visible in the photo I can use different settings and make the buildings lighter.



That's what happened with the astronaut in the image. The photos where he appears do not show the Sun, so they could be taken with different settings, better to show something in the shadows.
We can also see that the white building behind the abandoned factory, that has some areas that got a new paint coating, those areas are bright even when in the shadow, even when the Sun is in the image.

Now, something that shows that the image posted by zorgon is made from several images.
When looking at dark areas the levels tool can be used to look for signs of copy/paste actions, as most people do not distinguish the darker shades, so they think they are using black while the values are not really zero.


We can see a line around the upper part of the LM and another line to the left, showing where the photo with the astronaut exiting the LM ended. The "lens flare" also looks fake, while the shadow of the rightmost leg of the LM has a different hue from the rest of the shadows.

For those that have Photoshop (I haven't find a way of doing it with Gimp), the "Replace color" tool is also useful to detect image tampering (of the dumb kind, any good image tampering is undetectable).


We can see the same things that were noticeable with the levels change, that the upper area was copied from somewhere else and that the part with the astronaut is from a specific photo. We can also see the strange lens flare and the shadow of the rightmost leg of the LM.

And finally, something I learned with undo. :)
Separating an image into hue, saturation and brightness (or lightness, or value, the result is the same), any slight changes in hue (resulting from badly done tampering) become noticeable.


We can see once more the upper part has a different hue around it, as does the part with the astronaut. Now we can see that the lens flare has only one hue and that the light around the Sun and the Sun itself are made of distinct hues, with sudden changes from one hue to the next and no mixing of hues, making it very likely to be CGI. We can also see that everything below the Sun, from the horizon to the lower edge of the image has some strange hues when compared with the rest, meaning that it was probably painted or cloned from some other photo.

That's what I find strange in that photo.  ;D

Offline zerocd

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Re: marcus allen and the nasa pics
« Reply #31 on: July 01, 2012, 03:36:24 PM »
But ArMap, the first photo is on Earth with an atmosphere. Water vapor alone scatters light in all directions on reflection, no?

the moons atmosphere is minimal with no water vapor. Was the point only about camera settings?


Offline The Seeker

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Re: marcus allen and the nasa pics
« Reply #32 on: July 01, 2012, 04:31:12 PM »
Lets start with that  The sun is BEHIND the LEM according to the shadow, yet the front is lit up as bright as day when it should be pitch black in shadow

Now the astronaut coming out of that hatch... even the inside of the hatch area is lit up clearly.

There will be some reflected light from the surface of the moon, but stats are available on the amount of that reflection. There is no way reflection accounts for all that light

Now look closely at the clip below then check it in the full size image. Look where I put the yellow arrow and you will see a straight line where the image quality changes, like the exiting astronaut has been pasted over top


Not only does it appear to be a paste job, but there is also a reflection of a light source in the clip almost directly under your arrow  8) definitely looks like a studio mock up...


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Offline ArMaP

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Re: marcus allen and the nasa pics
« Reply #33 on: July 01, 2012, 04:36:51 PM »
But ArMap, the first photo is on Earth with an atmosphere. Water vapor alone scatters light in all directions on reflection, no?
As far as I know, it scatters in refraction, not in reflection, that's why you cannot see through fog and you cannot see yourself reflected in the fog.

Quote
the moons atmosphere is minimal with no water vapor. Was the point only about camera settings?
It was about camera settings and the fact that light is reflect by all surfaces (except a perfect matter black), even darker ones, in some degree.

When the camera is set up to take a photo including a strong light source like the Sun, all other things appear less bright, but when the Sun is not visible in the photo we can use different settings that show better things that would otherwise appear darker.

Offline zorgon

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Re: marcus allen and the nasa pics
« Reply #34 on: July 01, 2012, 05:43:08 PM »
As far as I know, it scatters in refraction, not in reflection, that's why you cannot see through fog and you cannot see yourself reflected in the fog.

On Earth when the sun goes down, we have about an hour of twilight

Quote
Twilight is the time between dawn and sunrise or between sunset and dusk, during which sunlight scattering in the upper atmosphere illuminates the lower atmosphere, and the surface of the earth is neither completely lit nor completely dark. The sun itself is not directly visible because it is below the horizon. Owing to the distinctive quality of the ambient light at this time, twilight has long been popular with photographers and painters, who refer to it as the "blue hour", after the French expression l'heure bleue. Twilight is technically defined as the periods between sunset and sunrise during which there is natural light provided by the upper atmosphere, which receives direct sunlight and scatters part of it towards the earth's surface.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twilight

Since the skeptics and main stream scientists claim that there is no atmosphere on the moon to produce twilight, then either there IS an atmosphere...

OR the ambient light provided in Earth photos like your buildings is from another light source on the Moon images

OR they were taken on Earth

If you are saying that they added different overlays with different settings, then you have offered proof of NASA image tampering :D

Offline ArMaP

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Re: marcus allen and the nasa pics
« Reply #35 on: July 01, 2012, 05:52:55 PM »
OR the ambient light provided in Earth photos like your buildings is from another light source on the Moon images
The ambient light is not a result of the atmosphere, some metres of atmosphere cannot do the same effect as several kilometres do during twilight.

That's one of the reasons why older CGI looks bad, as it only had light and shadow, with no light reflected by the other objects present in the scene. (I think they call that radiosity or something like that=

Quote
If you are saying that they added different overlays with different settings, then you have offered proof of NASA image tampering :D
No, proof that someone else (Ed Hengeveld) made that image and gave it to the Apollo Surface Journal. They have many things (mostly panoramas) made by other people.

PS: if that light scattering is a result of atmosphere then does that means that in a vacuum chamber there are only hard shadows?

deuem

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Re: marcus allen and the nasa pics
« Reply #36 on: July 02, 2012, 03:49:53 AM »
The photo in question has been manipulated in so many ways, I gave up counting. As ArMap stated it is said to be a man made mosaic by Mr. Ed Hengeveld. The first big clue is the huge yellow ring in the photo with no gradients. Stop right there if you want to.
 
On the entire photo I did find 2 things of interest to me. The face and the ring on the ground. Sticking with the ring, we should find out where it is from. It was my number 4 in the many items photo. It is just sitting there on the ground and should stay put. It should show up in another photo unless it was picked up. Where did it come from?
 
As far as an atmosphere, I did not pick up anything. But this photo has had the sky washed black and it would have only showed at the horizon if there.
 
Armap, nice job, if you got time to figure out the ring, that would be a great help. HoD
 
Deuem

Offline ArMaP

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Re: marcus allen and the nasa pics
« Reply #37 on: July 02, 2012, 02:06:03 PM »
I got a reply from Ed Hengeveld.

He says that was made with Apollo 11 photos pasted in Photoshop. Then he added the Sun as Photoshop effect, so the Sun is the only thing not real in that image.

Offline zorgon

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Re: marcus allen and the nasa pics
« Reply #38 on: July 03, 2012, 04:42:00 PM »
I would LOVE to post that picture at ATS and ask DWJ001 and a few others about that sun and tell them its a photoshopped image

I wonder now just how many other Apollo shots are cut and paste, enhanced by photoshop and have a false sun added for effect... then published as real publicity shots?

I have been saving this one for awhile. Thanks a lot for doing the legwork :D Have some gold

From John



« Last Edit: July 03, 2012, 05:50:04 PM by zorgon »

Offline zorgon

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Re: marcus allen and the nasa pics
« Reply #39 on: July 03, 2012, 04:55:04 PM »
There is always my old favorite too... the one that is my pet peeve with NASA making the moon grayscale

Now you be quiet on this one ArMap... as you were there when NASA pulled the rug out from under us on all those Apollo tiffs - I never did find where they hid them  :'(

But then I haven't looked since then :P

An interesting side note on that...

I had gotten a letter from someone at NASA from a NASA/JPL address asking me to please remove the XFile theme from John's section on our website. The reason he asked was because it was embarrassing to him when he logged on to the site from work :P

He then included a home email for me to contact him, but he let me know where he was from.  So I looked him up in NASA phone book and turns out he is highly placed in NASA's ISS image team

As it turns out this ISS image gallery is where we found the high res .tiffs of Apollo images that we were given to believe don't exist.  So in our haste to post this great find, I didn't download them all first... a mistake I will never repeat.

As ArMaP was in the middle of downloading the images went POOF and were pulled  The ISS ones are still there today but not the Apollo

Coincidence? I think not

Here is the image... Papajake at ATS spotted the problems with this... see if you can... Then I will post the rest :D


deuem

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Re: marcus allen and the nasa pics
« Reply #40 on: July 04, 2012, 01:10:20 AM »
Well to start, I will list a few,
 
the Moon is gray scale and the Earth is color.
 
This photo to be correctly viewed with North and South Poles needs to be turned 90 CCW
 
Then by looking at the Earth we see a land mass on the bottom, Maybe that is Australia, If so then all of Asia looks to be missing.
 
The Earth is all messed up. And I would say that the clouds are too big to be seen like that from that distance.
 
The terminator line is clean cut. No gradients Also I can not pick up any of the dark side of the Earth. It has been cut.
 
The black of the sky has been washed.
 
There is no/zero atmosphere readings on Earth.
 
I would have to know all of the camera lens and such to do a size ratio. But the Earth does look too big for me compared to other work I have done. This would also help out on measuring the Moons Horizon radius.
 
I would have to study the flight path and time to determine what craters should be showing.
 
So in Conclusion, Another publicity shot made up of at least 3 parts.
 
Deuem
 

Offline zorgon

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Re: marcus allen and the nasa pics
« Reply #41 on: July 04, 2012, 01:53:34 AM »
This photo to be correctly viewed with North and South Poles needs to be turned 90 CCW

Rdunk noticed the same thing :D but he only sent PM  :P

Here is the original examination by papajake



THIS is the official original from NASA...  WHY is it so important for them to remove the color from moon images?


Credit NASA Click for full size
« Last Edit: July 04, 2012, 01:56:14 AM by zorgon »

Offline zorgon

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Re: marcus allen and the nasa pics
« Reply #42 on: July 04, 2012, 02:18:43 AM »
ArMaP and I have a long running friendly feud over color... after a long time and many threads we finally came to an understand. While I would use the term 'true color' that did not sit well. See he likes to nit pick :D and is Portuguese so English is not his first language

What I meant by 'true color' is what our eyes would see. In the end, in a thread about the 'TRUE" color of the sky on Mars, I came to understand that to him it would be 'real color'  A small point but in the end... the sky on Mars was BLUE  ;D

I will do that thread here and add to it, but I bring it up because over 'there'  in the Clementine images we were lucky to have a release scoop on, is where we met  Oct 2006. The Clementine mention is important for this next image. I will also be doing the Clementine thread and link people to that dataset for hunting. 

Both ArMaP and now Pimander are able to run ISIS  so we can get to see the big gigabyte data files. Patience... take time to gather these mega thread :P

BTW A few have expressed concern as ArMaP is still a mod at ATS... I vouch for him 100%  There is no conflict of interest.

So here is the next photo... a USGS release



So once again we see a pretty blue marble and a very gray moon.

Now the fact that the moon is gray scale is obvious, but the earth... that is a very interesting shot is it not?  Well its a composite too... because that image was taken on the way to the Moon by Clementine, using the camera as a test

The image below shows the African continent imaged by the ultraviolet/visible camera at five different wavelengths on a clear day from a distance of 384,000 km.

THIS is the original image, from a PDF on the mission from LLNL



Enlarged, enhanced, color corrected and pasted into a black sky with a gray scale moon


Offline Amaterasu

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Re: marcus allen and the nasa pics
« Reply #43 on: July 04, 2012, 02:33:59 AM »
I looked at that image of the earth - the blurry one - and thought...  That looks like an enlargement - like what a smaller image would come out looking like if enlarged.

And LO!  That is what They did!
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deuem

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Re: marcus allen and the nasa pics
« Reply #44 on: July 04, 2012, 02:34:54 AM »
The above shot would have to be from a new moon position so it would be easy to date it. And it could never be Apollo. Apollo are all Earth trailing shots. To our left of the sun.
 
What is ISIS?
 
Deuem

 


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