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Author Topic: Is this perception of America accurate?  (Read 524 times)

Offline Littleenki

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Re: Is this perception of America accurate?
« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2018, 09:22:20 AM »

Of course we point to problems that may or may not be Americans in specific...thats how we identify causes of effects we experience...remember armap, there is a time and place to point fingers...and doing so helps those with blinders understand what all the noise is about beyond their gaze.

As for excuses....And with each day, and each memo, each discovery of such treason...it is no longer an excuse, but a reason.

As for America being no different, every nation has differing cultures within, who sometimes are polar opposites of one another, and get along or dont..just like America...so its not funny, its just reality.

Facts will be facts Armap, ignoring reality does nothing for progress, races have inherent traits, and you dont get to remove, shift, or add your ideas in to alter those traits, which are far more in depth than any personal opinion you may have on the subject....sure, just cry racism, (or point a finger as you say)..have you ever realized that what is real is unchanging, and what you perceive to be real, may be completely unreal in its entirety? hmm?
Chhers
Le
« Last Edit: February 07, 2018, 09:27:51 AM by Littleenki »
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Offline Littleenki

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Re: Is this perception of America accurate?
« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2018, 09:29:47 AM »
I think seeker pretty well nailed it!
I concur.

Le
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Offline ArMaP

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Re: Is this perception of America accurate?
« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2018, 06:24:36 PM »
It's not most Americans, ArMap, just a few noisy ones that are stirring the pot;
It's most of those that I know. Obviously, I don't know them all. ;)

And I was talking about people that point to all other possibilities except themselves as the source of the problems, and that doesn't apply only to the ones that are stirring the pot, it applies to almost everyone.

PS: Obviously, this is my opinion, based on what I have seen since I started reading and participating in Internet forums 14 years ago, so I know it's based on a specific population, the ones that participate in conspiracy forums, but it applies to most people from all sides of all topics.

PPS: I agree that labels are (and have always been) a big part of the problem. "African-American" is a good example of what I was saying, as by using that "label" both sides point to an African origin, making it sound like it's not an American problem but something that is related to Africa. It is, but very little, if it was important than why don't they call other people "European-Americans"?
« Last Edit: February 07, 2018, 06:27:17 PM by ArMaP »

Offline ArMaP

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Re: Is this perception of America accurate?
« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2018, 06:38:03 PM »
I had presented my outlook based on the videos on my blog that I posted.  The link is in this thread.
Sorry, I don't have time to watch videos.

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Our education system has changed over the years by way of what I call "liberal" teachers.  The way our government works has changed over the years.  We were founded as a Republic governed by laws with working checks and balances.  It morphed into Democracy (which is mob rule) and the political parties (my perception) are working for themselves and not the people.
That's another funny thing about the US: the definitions of some words. I wonder why things like "Republic" and "democracy" have a different meaning in the US than in the rest of the world.

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I find our local elections are no different and they reflect the way that state and national elections are run.  They are run in a "dirty" kind of way.
I have very little knowledge about local elections in the US, but if the little I have read about them is true then it looks like it works more or less in the same way, and "dirty" is a good word for them.

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Thanks for the response.
No problem. :)

Offline ArMaP

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Re: Is this perception of America accurate?
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2018, 06:42:24 PM »
the labels are confusing because we interrupt things bases on our own lives  we all shade words individually and that's part of it....
I think that's part of the "invisible war" that is always happening in the US, a way of keeping people divided.

Create a label for something or pick a known, long used one, and, little by little, change its meaning, so what was once good now is bad. Older people remember the old meaning, newer people only know the new one, and that creates a division between old and new. Then they start creating new labels to apply to the older and newer people, so each side can use them against the other and further the division, until they reach a point in which the previous generations do not relate to the more recent ones and vice versa.

Offline ArMaP

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Re: Is this perception of America accurate?
« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2018, 06:56:17 PM »
Of course we point to problems that may or may not be Americans in specific...thats how we identify causes of effects we experience...remember armap, there is a time and place to point fingers...and doing so helps those with blinders understand what all the noise is about beyond their gaze.
That's what I was trying to do, although I don't think people here have blinders, I don't do that kind of labelling. Pointing to a problem, so it can be recognised as such, is the first step to solve it. Finding all the parts involved in it is the second part, so we can know what should we look at to try to solve it. Only by doing those two first steps (with adaptations for specific problems when needed) can those problems be solved.
One side pointing to the other and saying "that's their fault" is not enough to solve the problem is both sides are part of it.

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As for excuses....And with each day, and each memo, each discovery of such treason...it is no longer an excuse, but a reason.
If both sides are responsible, pointing only to the other side (or creating a new side) is finding excuses not to solve the problem.

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As for America being no different, every nation has differing cultures within, who sometimes are polar opposites of one another, and get along or dont..just like America...so its not funny, its just reality.
That's not what I said I find funny.

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Facts will be facts Armap, ignoring reality does nothing for progress, races have inherent traits, and you dont get to remove, shift, or add your ideas in to alter those traits, which are far more in depth than any personal opinion you may have on the subject....sure, just cry racism, (or point a finger as you say)..have you ever realized that what is real is unchanging, and what you perceive to be real, may be completely unreal in its entirety? hmm?
Sure, facts are facts, that's what I was saying, I just find it funny how people avoid the facts they don't like and only talk about the facts they can use against any perceived "other side".
And yes, different races have different traits, but different social niches also have different traits, political sides have different traits, etc., etc., etc., so when we point to a specific trait we should be sure that we are talking about is a racial (or whatever) trait and not a preconceived idea about that group. And no, I didn't cry racism or tried to change any thing, I was only voicing my point of view, just like you. :)

Offline Littleenki

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Re: Is this perception of America accurate?
« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2018, 01:55:40 PM »
I feel like a Pizza....
Le
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Offline Littleenki

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Re: Is this perception of America accurate?
« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2018, 02:53:09 PM »
Unfortunately Armap, your point of view is not able to be accurate, unless you are actually here, or a part of American society, no matter how many tidbits you parse comments into, or how many opinions you may hear from whatever source...you still cannot form a valid opinion on this subject since you dont live here and experience it firsthand..sorry mate, thats just the facts...

Le
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Offline ArMaP

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Re: Is this perception of America accurate?
« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2018, 03:06:22 PM »
Well, if Americans can talk about Europe as if they know it, why can't an European talk about America if he knows it? ;D

Offline spacemaverick

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Re: Is this perception of America accurate?
« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2018, 11:57:36 PM »
Well, I can only talk about Europe in the 70's having spent 4 1/2 years in Germany with trips to various other countries while in the military.  Enjoyed it back then.  I know some people still in Germany and it is not quite what Europe once was back in the 70's...
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Offline Littleenki

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Re: Is this perception of America accurate?
« Reply #25 on: February 09, 2018, 06:12:01 AM »
Well, if Americans can talk about Europe as if they know it, why can't an European talk about America if he knows it? ;D

Im not sure who youre referring to Armap, but sure, theres a lot of opinions of Europe out there, from non Europeans...mine are formed by personal friends and family who live there, but alas, are likely inaccurate to some degree, since I am not there to visualize the situation myself.

I do understand Petrus posing the question to me by name in the OP..he is asking for a clarification of certain things, to form his personal opinions, and I hope my words have helped him a bit.

But the vibe I get from you, is that every reply and comment will be met with a dissection and disassembly of parts which only work together as a whole..perhaps if you tried seeing that whole without such dissection, your understanding will appear right before your very eyes..just a personal thought there....no offense meant.

It seems you have used too much skepticism and debunkery to try to understand and filter through what you probably truly want to understand, and you get wrapped up in semantics and tiny details that have no bearing on the whole for the most part.

Dissecting is often a way to get answers, but remember Armap, once dissected, it is usually difficult to reassemble a subject and turn it into a positive outcome, as one gets lost in the broken down pieces, and forgets the importance of the sum of the whole.

So, perhaps some may feel they know enough about Europe by watching its news channels and youtube videos..and some perceptions may be correct, while others incorrect...but honestly, the opinion formed through external means, is not an opinion, but a parroting of multiple inputs of information they have taken in from other, sometimes misinformed, sources.

Funny thing here, since you like funny things..most of my friends and family from Europe say they go through their day without seeing any Muslim refugees...but when they do they tell me their behavior is reprehensible and that all they wish for is that the refugees would just leave.

But that doesnt form my actual opinion on the matter..which is that no culture should be overrun with interlopers who refuse to conform to standards set centuries beforehand...seeing the whole would, so since I dont see the whole, I am relegated to just not really being interested that much unless it affects me.

Sure its nice to ask a question and get answers from those who are a part of the subject matter, but when questions have been answered by qualified people, you might want to stop that keyboard quotefest, and just sit back and look at the whole picture, instead of letting your skeptic side get the best of you by breaking down every reply into pieces which for all intents and purposes are useless in the entirety of the situation.

If you have a boat, you dont remove the engine and place it in the water to see how it works on its own...nor do you take the sails off and dissect them, to understand how it moves in the wind....you just leave it in one piece, and take it for what its worth, assemble your observations of the whole, and then form what opinions you can from such observations, using reason and logic as your guide.

As a wise man once said..probably somewhere on a mountaintop..relax, look through the trees, and see the forest...

Cheers
Le


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Offline ArMaP

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Re: Is this perception of America accurate?
« Reply #26 on: February 09, 2018, 03:18:57 PM »
Im not sure who youre referring to Armap,
No one in particular.

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But the vibe I get from you, is that every reply and comment will be met with a dissection and disassembly of parts which only work together as a whole..perhaps if you tried seeing that whole without such dissection, your understanding will appear right before your very eyes..just a personal thought there....no offense meant.
The fact that I divide my answers in parts doesn't mean I divide the posts in those parts when I read them, I only break the answers in parts because it's easier for me. I always read the whole posts, many times more than once, before making my mind about them.

The only thing I see in parts is long videos, as I think most are just a waste of time. :)

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So, perhaps some may feel they know enough about Europe by watching its news channels and youtube videos..and some perceptions may be correct, while others incorrect...but honestly, the opinion formed through external means, is not an opinion, but a parroting of multiple inputs of information they have taken in from other, sometimes misinformed, sources.
Parroting is when people repeat what they ear, an opinion formed through external means is still an opinion. Even when based on wrong information, an opinion is an opinion when it comes from that person's interpretation of the data. It may be similar or the same as other people's opinions, but it doesn't mean that person is parroting someone else.
If I think Pepsi is better than Coca Cola and you also think Pepsi is better than Coca Cola it doesn't mean you are parroting my opinion, it only means we have the same opinion.

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Sure its nice to ask a question and get answers from those who are a part of the subject matter, but when questions have been answered by qualified people, you might want to stop that keyboard quotefest, and just sit back and look at the whole picture, instead of letting your skeptic side get the best of you by breaking down every reply into pieces which for all intents and purposes are useless in the entirety of the situation.
Your opinion about me is wrong, as I said above (and several times before), I only break the answers, I don't interpret what other people write in separate pieces.

Offline petrus4

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Re: Is this perception of America accurate?
« Reply #27 on: February 09, 2018, 05:02:53 PM »
Funny thing here, since you like funny things..most of my friends and family from Europe say they go through their day without seeing any Muslim refugees...but when they do they tell me their behavior is reprehensible and that all they wish for is that the refugees would just leave.

Melbourne has recently had problems with violent Sudanese teenagers, as well.  When I was living in New South Wales, the white South African owner of the property had a 17 year old boy, and I literally never encountered him when he wasn't talking about engaging in violence towards someone.  It really isn't a race or colour issue.  It's just that the African continent is a place where extreme violence is a daily part of life, so they have that expectation.  They don't know how to live in an environment which has the rule of law, because that's not what they grew up with.  They expect to be able to act on their own violent impulses whenever they like, and also that everyone else around them will do so as well.  Nimbin did enough psychological damage to me that I realised that I was no different to any of the people of whatever other colour I saw there.  Put me in a volatile situation, and you'll see me go bad inside 9 months.



I will also admit that yes, if I go into a local supermarket where I am currently living and see a black man, sometimes I will initially look away and feel uneasy.  Unlike the people on 4chan, however, that is not because I view them as having inherent, unavoidable genetic differences to me, but because I expect them to come from a culture where violence is normal.  I have a white Dutch Afrikaans uncle as well, and when I was a small child I was scared of him before I got to know him.  He served in the South African Navy when he was younger, and was extremely violent in certain situations.

Skin colour is only really used as a target for prejudice because it is obvious and easy.  It's the same reason why gangs have colours and nations have flags; humans universally want simple, visual markers to tell them whether or not they can trust the person they are looking at, without the time or effort of having to consciously think about it.  The thing I realised though, is that you can be a white person among white supremacists, but if you disagree with them on any point, (particularly if said point involves expressing sympathy towards other groups) they will very happily call you a race traitor and hang you on the same tree as a black person.  So it's not about colour; it's about whether you are the same or different from them in general terms, and colour is simply one of the laziest ways they use to try and determine that.

Speaking more objectively than I have here in the past, Islam is likewise tricky.  I've both seen and heard of enough decent Muslims to know that plenty of them exist.  On the other hand, the culture which the religion encourages, genuinely is regressive and barbaric.  Rumi, who is usually their most quoted mystic, admitted that the Qu'ran was a long way from perfect.  The real problem with Islam is that while you can't immediately assume that the individual Muslim in front of you is violent, the time it takes you to ask the question, might be all the time they need to stab you.

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But that doesnt form my actual opinion on the matter..which is that no culture should be overrun with interlopers who refuse to conform to standards set centuries beforehand...seeing the whole would, so since I dont see the whole, I am relegated to just not really being interested that much unless it affects me.

I don't know how much this is actually happening, and how much of it is fascist propaganda.  I definitely think it is to a degree, but if I was to believe everything I read, I could easily draw the conclusion that whites are critically endangered, and that the Western world was being overrun.  Whenever I go and look up some actual statistics, however, a less hysterical picture generally emerges.

I also don't see white culture as necessarily being all that superior, to be honest.  Yes, it's usually aesthetically cleaner, but I've known plenty of brutally violent whites; and my own Scottish temper is something I've spent most of my life struggling with.  White cleanliness, superficial civility, and the tendency to build stone monuments primarily exist as excuses, in my observation; it's something we can point to and use to justify ourselves, when someone gives us an uncomfortable reminder about colonialism.
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Offline Titan

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Re: Is this perception of America accurate?
« Reply #28 on: February 10, 2018, 05:33:22 AM »
What is so horrifying about that picture?  It doesn't say anything negative about any other race or group.  That might even be the point of it.  I see posters all the time that say proud to be a woman, proud to be gay, proud to be black, proud to be Christian, on and on.  Why is it considered horrible for someone to say proud to be white?  If it said white people were better than everyone else then it would be making a case that white people are superior to others, but it's not racist for someone to be proud of their race.

I think it's all pretty stupid the way people want to take credit for something they didn't have anything to do with anyway, or be upset about something they had nothing to do with.  People don't choose what race to be born.  Even if they did that wouldn't automatically make them responsible for anything that people of the same race did.  Sports are the same way.  People say "we won" when the team they like won, but it was the players that won the game not the people watching it on TV.

There are people who want to see everyone divided over this superficial foolishness.  They want to keep us all so busy hating each other that nobody notices the prison they are building around us all.

Offline spacemaverick

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Re: Is this perception of America accurate?
« Reply #29 on: February 11, 2018, 06:19:19 AM »
What is so horrifying about that picture?  It doesn't say anything negative about any other race or group.  That might even be the point of it.  I see posters all the time that say proud to be a woman, proud to be gay, proud to be black, proud to be Christian, on and on.  Why is it considered horrible for someone to say proud to be white?  If it said white people were better than everyone else then it would be making a case that white people are superior to others, but it's not racist for someone to be proud of their race.

I think it's all pretty stupid the way people want to take credit for something they didn't have anything to do with anyway, or be upset about something they had nothing to do with.  People don't choose what race to be born.  Even if they did that wouldn't automatically make them responsible for anything that people of the same race did.  Sports are the same way.  People say "we won" when the team they like won, but it was the players that won the game not the people watching it on TV.

There are people who want to see everyone divided over this superficial foolishness.  They want to keep us all so busy hating each other that nobody notices the prison they are building around us all.

Well Said Titan..!!
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