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Author Topic: Teenage girl, 14, dies after being electrocuted in her sleep by faulty iPhone ch  (Read 823 times)

Offline astr0144

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Thats interesting that you learned about the design of a CPU..

Is that even as far as doing miniture circuitary via Microscope type work ?  :)  or drawing out the circuits.. inc the various miniture components in a CPU ?  or all ?

I was thinking it may had been more towards general type electrical or other general type electonic components..

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Both. The mail course was slightly more theoretical, but I learned enough to design a basic CPU.

When I referred to Robots...I meant the Electrical side of them... in relation to the circuitary or wiring to make the mechanical parts of Robots do their mechanical type movements in the various directions...

Lego !   I used to enjoy playing with that !

I suppose the crane is similar to a Robot !


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Robots are just the part that moves, what makes them move is the automation part, so although we only worked with a small Siemens automation system (a Simatic S5, if I'm not mistaken), the principle for controlling a Lego crane (the best project on that course, they even appeared on a newspaper) is the same for controlling a complex robot: inputs, processing, outputs.

Thats very good that yu are self taught...and made a career out of it....I had not realised thats what you worked in ..

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Yes, I am a self taught programmer.

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I have been working as a programmer in the last 22 years. :)

I assume you mean that you took those subjects into your later secondary School years at the end of year exam level ?


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I had Chemistry and Biology at school, but as they are subjects I like I use any opportunity I get to learn more, but I didn't study them to any meaningful detail.

It would had maybe also been good for you, if you had been able to study the subjects at a higher level..

but maybe your happy or prefer the programming side..

Is your programming a combination of languages.. be it html...Php, or C+  or some other type of programming ?

and in what sort of industry ?  Would that be in engineering... / electrical oriented or things like systems, such as in companies or Banking...or Govt depts ?


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I always liked science. :)






Offline biggles

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I didn't read the whole thread, I presume she fell asleep in her bed with the thing; kids have their eyes mostly glued to the darn things, why they have to take them to bed is beyond me.
I know that I know nothing - thanks Capricorn.

Offline astr0144

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Yes... I believe that she fell to sleep... and rolled over to touch the plug / wire when she had put it on a charger..

I think its now gone so far that they cannot be without it where ever they are !   if they could they would be using it in their dreams and using them !  :)

I recken its now just become irreversable mind control .. total addiction...


I didn't read the whole thread, I presume she fell asleep in her bed with the thing; kids have their eyes mostly glued to the darn things, why they have to take them to bed is beyond me.

Offline ArMaP

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Is that even as far as doing miniture circuitary via Microscope type work ?  :)  or drawing out the circuits.. inc the various miniture components in a CPU ?  or all ?
I learned how to join the transistors to make logic gates and how to join those logic gates to create a programmable circuit. I also learned how to draw out the circuits, but the connections in modern CPUs are so complex that they are too complex to be made by humans. What I learned would be enough for me to be able to make a simple CPU, like one on a simple programmable calculator, but, without being able to make a chip with the circuit in it the CPU would probably need a big box for all those components and would use lots of energy.

But the basis is the same. :)

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When I referred to Robots...I meant the Electrical side of them... in relation to the circuitary or wiring to make the mechanical parts of Robots do their mechanical type movements in the various directions...
I didn't learn that, that's more mechatronics than electronics. But the basis is sensors (simple contact switches, temperature sensors, cameras, etc.) and actuators (motors, electromagnets, hydraulic systems, etc.) and mechanics.

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I assume you mean that you took those subjects into your later secondary School years at the end of year exam level ?
No, before that, at the later years I only had subjects related to electricity.

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It would had maybe also been good for you, if you had been able to study the subjects at a higher level..
Time is always the biggest problem, 24 hours are too little for all the things I would like to do in a day. :)

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but maybe your happy or prefer the programming side..
I love programming, sometimes I get home at the end of the day and do some programming, just because I can. :D

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Is your programming a combination of languages.. be it html...Php, or C+  or some other type of programming ?
It's almost all done in Visual Basic or VB.net, with HTML (although I don't consider HTML programming) and Javascript when working on web pages. I never did anything in PHP or C+, but tried a little C++, but I didn't like it.

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and in what sort of industry ?  Would that be in engineering... / electrical oriented or things like systems, such as in companies or Banking...or Govt depts ?
I work in a software house. Our main products are a program for historical archives and an invoicing program.

Offline robomont

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Crumbs get in the slot or the head is not tight on the chord and needs crimping with pliers.
Ive run into it mostly with aftermarket with charging.
@armap,that highschool class must have been equivalent of a masters degree in usa college.or youre just really weird! Hmm?  Lol!
ive never been much for rules.
being me has its priviledges.

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Offline ArMaP

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@armap,that highschool class must have been equivalent of a masters degree in usa college.or youre just really weird! Hmm?  Lol!
I don't know what class you are talking about, as I didn't specify any.

Offline astr0144

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That seems quite a complex topic that you studied ArMaP !

Judging from what you describe..(IMO) even a basic CPU design would be quite a challenge...

and no doubt the advanced Chips are now far beyond most peoples understanding..

I once considering trying to apply for a Job that made chips and did for a while learn a bit about some of the process..
and have since seen some TV programmes about them...
which now just seem to far technical than I can comprehend..

They seems to continue to be smaller and smaller yet are able to deal with more complex data and also are faster..


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I learned how to join the transistors to make logic gates and how to join those logic gates to create a programmable circuit. I also learned how to draw out the circuits, but the connections in modern CPUs are so complex that they are too complex to be made by humans. What I learned would be enough for me to be able to make a simple CPU, like one on a simple programmable calculator, but, without being able to make a chip with the circuit in it the CPU would probably need a big box for all those components and would use lots of energy.

But the basis is the same. :)

I see...

I assume that prior to this you had some basic past understanding of Electrical / Electronics from what you had learned at School and were still able to recall it or had a apptitude for it..

I find some Electrical quite hard to understand..

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I didn't learn that, that's more mechatronics than electronics. But the basis is sensors (simple contact switches, temperature sensors, cameras, etc.) and actuators (motors, electromagnets, hydraulic systems, etc.) and mechanics.


That seems like maybe you refer to that you refer to before your last 2 years at Secondary School...maybe between the ages of 12 to 14... and had not taken them for your final 2 years as exam subjects..

Thats assuming the school system in Portugal is similar to the UK...

As in my last two years... I had to choose certain (6 or 7 or so) subjects to do for what we call GCSE or "O Level " or whats known as Ordinary Level exams.. which is what most peole have to refer to when they leave school and apply for jobs..

Those who do well in those exams may then go on to do two more years at school or College to then do "A Levels" often to the age of 18 yrs old..

Then those who do well, may then go on to do degree at a Univerity...  but there are other various ways one can do this if they did not do well in those  exams at O or A Levels...

who may take college or night school or home studies to study for a degree in some subject they are interested in.

So is your abilities in Biology and Chemistry more based on your own later study.. combined with you recalling your earlier school years.. 

You must have a good memory and ability if you refer to what you may had learned in your earlier school years..

You now seem to have certain more advanced understanding in some of your related posts that are in those Science areas.

I think this was what Robo was referring to..

That you may appear to have a much higher level of understanding than earlier highschool level...!  ???

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@armap,that highschool class must have been equivalent of a masters degree in usa college.or youre just really weird! Hmm?  Lol!


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No, before that, at the later years I only had subjects related to electricity.

Yes... I think we all want more time or to be able to maybe change times in our past decisions or what we have done in areas we may think we wasted.. or we now have other interests.. and wish we had gone down a different path..

You must be keen on Programming if you  still do your own after work...

Its a skill that you can apply to your own ideas.../ projects.

Would you say Programming is more of a logical application ?

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    It would had maybe also been good for you, if you had been able to study the subjects at a higher level..

Time is always the biggest problem, 24 hours are too little for all the things I would like to do in a day. :)

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    but maybe your happy or prefer the programming side..

I love programming, sometimes I get home at the end of the day and do some programming, just because I can. :D

I would have though that Java is hard to do ! Is that to do with video or visual type things on a website..

I meant to refer to C++...(not C+)  and I believe it is one of the harder form to learn..so I could understand why you would not like it..

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It's almost all done in Visual Basic or VB.net, with HTML (although I don't consider HTML programming) and Javascript when working on web pages. I never did anything in PHP or C+, but tried a little C++, but I didn't like it.

I think it could be interesting if your working say in some parts of History that would be of interest to you..

Or things like find your past ancestor websites...

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I work in a software house. Our main products are a program for historical archives and an invoicing program.


« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 07:20:44 PM by astr0144 »

Offline ArMaP

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and no doubt the advanced Chips are now far beyond most peoples understanding..
Today's chips are more like a full computer inside a chip than the chips from 20 years ago, and I think designing a chip these days must be similar to design a huge town like New York or Los Angeles from the start, designing all the roads, pipes, telecommunications, buildings, supporting infrastructures, etc.

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They seems to continue to be smaller and smaller yet are able to deal with more complex data and also are faster..
They can be faster because they are smaller, as the distance electricity has to travel is shorter. Also, being smaller they spend less energy, which allows them to use higher frequencies, that's why they try so hard to make them smaller.

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I find some Electrical quite hard to understand..
The basics are simple, but there are many formulas that need to be learned. On my penultimate secondary school year I had to remember more than 80 formulas, for Physics and Electricity classes.

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Thats assuming the school system in Portugal is similar to the UK...
I see by your description below that is not. :)

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As in my last two years... I had to choose certain (6 or 7 or so) subjects to do for what we call GCSE or "O Level " or whats known as Ordinary Level exams.. which is what most peole have to refer to when they leave school and apply for jobs..

Those who do well in those exams may then go on to do two more years at school or College to then do "A Levels" often to the age of 18 yrs old..

Then those who do well, may then go on to do degree at a Univerity...  but there are other various ways one can do this if they did not do well in those  exams at O or A Levels...

who may take college or night school or home studies to study for a degree in some subject they are interested in.
I don't know if things still are as they were when I was in school, but at that time, in Portugal, from 12 to 18 years old we had 6 years of secondary school, the first two had mostly generic subjects and the last 4 were more specific, with the first of those 4 being dedicated more to a specific area (like technologies, languages, etc.), the next two dedicated to a specific subject of that area (like electricity, mechanics, etc.) and in the last one we could look into different subjects from the same area (I chose Geology, another subject I like). Then we had an exam, and if we had high enough results we could go to University. As I wasn't thinking about going to the University I din't bothered taking the exam.

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So is your abilities in Biology and Chemistry more based on your own later study.. combined with you recalling your earlier school years.. 

You must have a good memory and ability if you refer to what you may had learned in your earlier school years..
I liked Chemistry a lot, but when I had Chemistry at school I didn't like it, I preferred Physics. Biology has been more an influence of my elder sister, she's the one that loves biology.

And yes, having a good memory helps, although today, with the help of the Internet it's easier to complement what we remember and what we learned many years ago. :)

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I think this was what Robo was referring to..

That you may appear to have a much higher level of understanding than earlier highschool level...!  ???
I hope so, my highschool days are long gone but I didn't stop learning. As I use to say, learning is one of the few things you can do all your life. :)

What I learned at school (related to the subject I chose, Electricity) was really advanced, as they were equivalent to the previous technical course (I studied in a technical school). When I took the Industrial Electronics and Automation course (one of those courses paid by the EU), the professors were all from an University and were surprised with how much people that didn't apply to the University knew, just from their highschool years. Once, a professor gave us a problem, we all solved it, and then he told us that most students from the third year of the University had trouble solving it.

I only had one year of Chemistry and never had Biology classes.

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You must be keen on Programming if you  still do your own after work...
:)

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Its a skill that you can apply to your own ideas.../ projects.

Would you say Programming is more of a logical application ?
I see programming as a way of putting computers doing what we want, so we are free to do other things, but also as a problem solving challenge, as we need to convert the information and how we work with it into something computers can work with.

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I would have though that Java is hard to do ! Is that to do with video or visual type things on a website..
Java is one thing, Javascript is another. Java is similar to C++, while Javascript is much simpler and limited to a few functions to work with a web page. Java can be used to create whole programs or programs (applets) that run on a browser (although now most browsers block it), while Javascript can only be used on web pages, to do things like rotating an image, changing images based on a timer, validate user input, etc.

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I meant to refer to C++...(not C+)  and I believe it is one of the harder form to learn..so I could understand why you would not like it..
I don't like languages like C++ not because they are difficult but because I think there are easier languages (like Visual Basic) that can do almost the same, and, being easier, we can work faster.
I liked programming with an even harder language, assembly, but that a lot of time, although it's the fastest language, as it converts directly to CPU commands.

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I think it could be interesting if your working say in some parts of History that would be of interest to you..

Or things like find your past ancestor websites...
Historical archives is where all the information from the past is stored. For example, the historical archive of the Portuguese army has records of all the military operations since the 16th century, only the more recent (usually 10 years old or less) are left in unit that created those records, as they be needed for present actions.
The historical archives are also where the books where births, marriages and deaths were registered are stored, so the software that allows the archivists to describe and scan the original documents and publish that information on the Internet is really allowing many people to research their own past, including their ancestry.

Offline astr0144

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Thanks for your explanations and  detailed reply ArMaP...

Quite a lot to think about ... and absorb ...before considering certain further comments..

Its interesting how your School compares... and ref to how you took what subjects that you have and how its led to your outcome.

Some of the Computer Programming ... I imagine has been quite a challenge to research and learn..

but It must be good to have done so and enjoy also what you do and also are able to use it for your own use...

I see that you took Physics also as a main subject in your end of School years...

I assume also Maths and Portugese or a Language (Maybe even English )as also being Compulsionary ...

which I think is usually subjects most people have to take at School..

Other subjects like History , Geography .. are usually choices..

Then there maybe a type craft subject.. metal work, wood work... or Technical drawing... or maybe in more later years... information technology..

At my school I was restricted in only being able to consider 2 Science subjects... but I think Physics was the main one most had to take, rather than Chemistry or Biology..

Some Schools did allow main 3 Sciences plus Geology !
which my Brother was able to do..

I think also here may had been Astronomy as an option..

But I think mainly the reason behind this is because some schools are of a higher level.... where you have had to pass a standard test and get over a certain level...

and to take certain subjects may require one has a higher IQ..
in order to be able to have much change of understanding it well enough..

and the older I get, I can understand that now !

but its very hard to say for sure... as it can be that some people just were not in the right position to have been able to study harder topics if they had not been given a good start in life or if they had various problems in their earlier life..

But I do think ... we all have set abilities in certain areas..

and we are not capable of doing certain things..or we all have a limitation eventually..

People like Doctors or Surgeons do most Sciences.. and are some of the cleverest higher IQ people..

and most of us are not able to reach such levels no matter how hard we try..

Ive read some surgeons have IQs of 220..

where as a GP Doctor may only have a 160 IQ and even they could never become surgeons..

let alone a average person with a average 100 IQ...who would have no chance what so ever..

that seems how life is.. just a lottery. !

I think its down to luck, genetics or maybe past diet in ones parents / ancestery..as well as upbringing..and fate ! :)



Offline ArMaP

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I assume also Maths and Portugese or a Language (Maybe even English )as also being Compulsionary ...
I had Maths in all years, and it was the source of my problems, as I had to repeat two years because of Maths. Portuguese and one foreign language were compulsory, but the language was French, English was presented the first time as an option then, but as I was not interested in spending more time at school I didn't took English classes.

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Other subjects like History , Geography .. are usually choices..
I had those too.

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Then there maybe a type craft subject.. metal work, wood work... or Technical drawing... or maybe in more later years... information technology..
When I was at school (I left in 1983) there weren't any information technology classes, any thing related to computers was only available in universities, part, if I'm not mistaken, of electronic engineering.

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but its very hard to say for sure... as it can be that some people just were not in the right position to have been able to study harder topics if they had not been given a good start in life or if they had various problems in their earlier life..
From what I have seen, the problem most people have with some study subjects is that they do not find them interesting, as when people find something they like they can take the time and work needed to get good results. It's like Maths, most students don't see why they should learn all those things about second degree equations and imaginary numbers and such things, but I think that if the schools started by showing some final result (a computer game, a jet fighter, whatever) the students found interesting and then showed how the Maths were behind those things some would look at Maths in a different way.

Usually, when people don't see a purpose in something they just ignore it.

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But I do think ... we all have set abilities in certain areas..

and we are not capable of doing certain things..or we all have a limitation eventually..
I think that's natural, if all people were good at the same things that would mean that all people would be bad at the same things, and as a species our chances of evolution would be worse. For example, physically, some are faster, some can carry more weight, but those that can carry more weight cannot be fast and the fast cannot carry more weight.

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Ive read some surgeons have IQs of 220..

where as a GP Doctor may only have a 160 IQ and even they could never become surgeons..
Surgeons don't need to have a higher IQ to be surgeons, they need to learn a little more than GP doctors but need to have an excellent control of their motions. My elder sister has a small company in which she gives art classes (she has an art degree), and one of her students is a surgeon, and she says that it's impressive the kind of control he has over his hands, he can do exactly what he wants with them, but, sometimes, he isn't capable of painting like he should, not because he cannot do it physically but because he doesn't understand what he needs to do to achieve the result he wants.

One thing that helps getting a degree in things like law and medicine is a good memory, as much of what they learn are things they need to memorise, that's why those subjects are the best for AI systems.

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let alone a average person with a average 100 IQ...who would have no chance what so ever..

that seems how life is.. just a lottery. !
IQ is not everything, it's just a way of measuring something, different kinds of tests give different results, and without a clear definition of "intelligence" they cannot really measure it.

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I think its down to luck, genetics or maybe past diet in ones parents / ancestery..as well as upbringing..and fate ! :)
I think that's partially true, but, as I said above, part is because people don't see a good reason to follow the studying of a specific topic, either because they don't see how they could get a better job because of it or because they cannot spend the time to make the course, as they need to work.

Offline astr0144

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In the U.K... back in the late 70s / early 80s... they offered or included  "Computer Studies " but hat was the more earlier stages of computing...using Basic language and programming....or maybe DOS...bits and bytes.. :)

I did do it as a subject , but at the time I was not greatly keen on it..and some things I did not enjoy..

I think later became more like Information technology.

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When I was at school (I left in 1983) there weren't any information technology classes, any thing related to computers was only available in universities, part, if I'm not mistaken, of electronic engineering.

I Agree with most of what your saying...
but at the same time... one has to initially learn how to do the basics maybe before they can look to apply it in real situations..

and often at a young age for many.... Students may not be as Interested as they would be later in Life if something or a subject like Maths maybe  quite difficult to them..which for a fair % I think that is often the case..

or maybe the reason that some students do not remain interested is because .. they are not shown or given real ways on how certain things apply to real life egs..

But for those who are able to understand better or are keener... then they may appreciate being shown more real application examples..

A lot depends on what level students are at or their abilities...

Often I think certain classes in some schools...if in larger classes often also get too many distractions or struggle to
be really interested.. and it may also depend on individuals maturity..

Many have to grow up before they later relook at how what they were shown at School applies in the real world.

then I think it becomes part of ones development...

But some students are able to do well with what they learn at school and can have good careers if they are able to do something that the like or are good at..and get the right opportunities that they take to..


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From what I have seen, the problem most people have with some study subjects is that they do not find them interesting, as when people find something they like they can take the time and work needed to get good results. It's like Maths, most students don't see why they should learn all those things about second degree equations and imaginary numbers and such things, but I think that if the schools started by showing some final result (a computer game, a jet fighter, whatever) the students found interesting and then showed how the Maths were behind those things some would look at Maths in a different way.

Usually, when people don't see a purpose in something they just ignore it.

I think some things we either like and take to, other things.. we may just a have no ability or interest in..

In terms of education.. and Jobs... I think most is a mental thing rather than physical.. and to do with our mental abilities and mental strength as to how we are able to deal with things..

but there can be many obsticles that can cause us problems that many a time we just had no idea or knowledge about in how best to deal with.. that can have negative effects on us...

We can be good at certain subjects or our Jobs, but other factors in General life and Psychological issues can be ons downfall... especially if one has not really been given much awareness of how to deal with certain situations that arise in Lifes journey...

Some Children are taught things in their early years that may take some others several years to become aware about or know how to deal with..

Other factors.. I think often we can be put into maybe  4 or more general areas..

where some people are more Mathematical and Logical..

Others are better at Communication and  more audial and  Verbal and good at listening ,reading,  speaking and taking in verbal information and good at Languages or writing and spelling.. and maybe  more social.

Others are more visual oriented and good at things like drawing, photography or planning..

then some are better with craft like skills..or things like joinary , building or mechanics...

or some are more kinestetic..feelings ...caring ... like Drs an Nurses..carers

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I think that's natural, if all people were good at the same things that would mean that all people would be bad at the same things, and as a species our chances of evolution would be worse. For example, physically, some are faster, some can carry more weight, but those that can carry more weight cannot be fast and the fast cannot carry more weight.

It may depend what type of Surgeon... but I believe on average that  that do need a higher IQ than a General Doctor..

but I found it hard to believe the suggestion in something that I read that it would be as high as over 200.. when it was estimated that a average Doctors IQ would be 160...
or a Dentist 140..to give us some idea !

but I agree that does not make them good at everything..
but often it does seem if they are good at certain things, often they are good at many other things as well..

BUT I do wonder how well or better we all could do given the right guidence / upbringing and education..

I am sure we all would do or be  better..

or maybe it als depends on oursleves as well as to whether we would or if we want to...

Memory is an area.. that is a hard one for me..

Ive read certain things that could be down to biology and just what we are given in terms of our development, rathen than how hard we try.. so for some its just more natural.. or easy for them...  obviously some of us will have mental issues.. or have been effected by various things .. be it stress, or vaccines or drugs.. or food and water issues as Alex jones suggests..

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Surgeons don't need to have a higher IQ to be surgeons, they need to learn a little more than GP doctors but need to have an excellent control of their motions. My elder sister has a small company in which she gives art classes (she has an art degree), and one of her students is a surgeon, and she says that it's impressive the kind of control he has over his hands, he can do exactly what he wants with them, but, sometimes, he isn't capable of painting like he should, not because he cannot do it physically but because he doesn't understand what he needs to do to achieve the result he wants.

One thing that helps getting a degree in things like law and medicine is a good memory, as much of what they learn are things they need to memorise, that's why those subjects are the best for AI systems.

Understanding, memory and speed of doing,  seem to be many of the factors that the experts suggest are required in their IQ tests... but no doubt there or many other factors..

There is also EQ (Emotional IQ ) and other similar tests

but doing well or ok in a IQ tests may not apply to us doing well in Life.. plus everything is relative...

as for some getting a score of 100 is high to some .. and its only a small  % who woud ever would score 160 or above..

I do think we are selected and bracketed from our early School years... and I am sorry to say most of us want to maybe be able to do many things that for what ever reason we are not able to do.. in which it seems unfair and frustrating and as if we can never fullfill life to te best ...

It is suggested that IQ can also often be a measure of what we may earn in our jobs or what jobs we may get..

which determines our future..

but also for many of us.. during economic bad times.. our potential has been often destroyed... and they are also often resons why we dont do as well as were would be capable, I am sorry to say..

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IQ is not everything, it's just a way of measuring something, different kinds of tests give different results, and without a clear definition of "intelligence" they cannot really measure it.

It woul be much better if we sort of new what we wanted to do.. as it then helps to know what one needs to aim for or concentrate  more on or work harder at ..to get where we want to be or what we want to achieve or become.

but also often we get too many choices or have maybe several intersts its hard to decide..

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I think that's partially true, but, as I said above, part is because people don't see a good reason to follow the studying of a specific topic, either because they don't see how they could get a better job because of it or because they cannot spend the time to make the course, as they need to work.

This gives some idea what IQs are required to do certain types of Jobs..that most of us ar familiar with..

from one of the high ones as a Surgeon or Doctor  to other types of Professions  like Aircraft Pilots... and various Science or Engineering type professions..

I am not sure if these relate to just being selected or if its if one was to end up passing the required exams ...such as degree levels..

some maybe expected entry levels, say if applying for a type of engineering profession as an eg..

where you may say have Mechanical, Electrical and Nuclear...

where in those egs... a mehaincal Engineer is suggested as having an IQ of say about 112..

and Electrical engineer is a level of about 115..

and Nuclear engineer a level of 121

so you can see how high a surgeon would be if they have to have over 100 pts higher (234 )than a nuclear engineer..

as I would think a nuclear Engineer would  have to be very clever.. and I find that quite hard to believe..

but it may give a better idea as to just how clever some of these people are..and its gives average peolple more idea of the varition of the various type of professions and how peoples salaries would vary..

Occupation
IQ
1. Surgeon
234.1
2. Physician
161.1
3. Corporate executive
148.0
4. Psychiatrist
147.7
5. Dentist
140.0
6. Orthodontist
131.2
7. Podiatrist
129.1
8. Judge
127.9
9. Attorney
127.8
10. Petroleum engineer
126.1
11. Pharmacist
126.1
12. Physicist
124.9
13. Commercial airline pilot
124.9
14. Astronomer
124.5
15. Financial planner
122.8
16. Nuclear engineer
121.1
17. Optometrist
120.7
18. Aerospace engineer             
120.2
19. Mathematician
119.8
20. Public relations executive
118.1
21. Economist
116.9
22. Actuary
116.9
23. Software engineer
116.9
24. Meteorologist
116.0
25. School principal
116.0
26. Physician assistant
115.6
27. Electrical engineer                   
115.2
28. Web developer
115.2
29. Construction foreman
114.8
30. Geologist
114.4
31. Veterinarian
114.4
32. Computer systems analyst
112.7
33. Mechanical engineer                       
112.6
34. Civil engineer
112.2
35. Industrial engineer
111.8
36. Biologist                                       
111.4
37. Physical therapist
111.4
38. Statistician
111.0
39. Architect
111.0
40. Computer programmer                       
« Last Edit: November 25, 2017, 02:54:10 AM by astr0144 »

Offline ArMaP

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In terms of education.. and Jobs... I think most is a mental thing rather than physical.. and to do with our mental abilities and mental strength as to how we are able to deal with things..

but there can be many obsticles that can cause us problems that many a time we just had no idea or knowledge about in how best to deal with.. that can have negative effects on us...
That's why children should have freedom to chose what they want but with the support of an adult to try to identify what they are good at, so if a child wants to be, for example, a mechanical engineer but shows aptitude for biology, they can show that, if they cannot succeed at mechanical engineering then they could try biology. Sometimes people do not even notice that they are good at something because that's not what they are expecting (or wanting).

Quote
It may depend what type of Surgeon... but I believe on average that  that do need a higher IQ than a General Doctor..
Why do they need to be more intelligent?

Quote
but I found it hard to believe the suggestion in something that I read that it would be as high as over 200.. when it was estimated that a average Doctors IQ would be 160...
or a Dentist 140..to give us some idea !
Those estimations sound more like preconceived ideas about jobs.

Quote
BUT I do wonder how well or better we all could do given the right guidence / upbringing and education..
Exactly. The problem is that most professors are just waiting for their paycheck and not worried about the students' future, the few that are can really make a difference.

Quote
Ive read certain things that could be down to biology and just what we are given in terms of our development, rathen than how hard we try.. so for some its just more natural.. or easy for them...  obviously some of us will have mental issues.. or have been effected by various things .. be it stress, or vaccines or drugs.. or food and water issues as Alex jones suggests..
Food makes a big difference, as a child that does not have a good diet cannot have a good development and will never be as good as they could have been.
On my last two highschool years, whenever I had a test I studied the day before, didn't study on the test day and a had a good meal. It may be a coincidence or they may have been other unnoticed factors at work,  but I got better results that way.

Quote
but doing well or ok in a IQ tests may not apply to us doing well in Life.. plus everything is relative...
I think the only thing a IQ test shows is how easy it would be for someone to learn something new, but to really learn that person also needs intention, someone with a high IQ but too lazy may use their intelligence to avoid doing any work.

Quote
It is suggested that IQ can also often be a measure of what we may earn in our jobs or what jobs we may get..

which determines our future..
See above.

Quote
Occupation
IQ
1. Surgeon
234.1
2. Physician
161.1
That list is silly. For example, a mathematician needs to know all the math (and more) that any of the engineering jobs above on the list need to know.
It looks more like an income list translated to an IQ list.

PS: Einstein was a theoretical physicist, something not listed. Physicists are on number 12 on that list.  :P

PPS: after a little Internet search, it looks like one of the people with highest IQ ever recorded is a Korean civil engineer, Kim Ung-yong. Surgeons do not appear in any list of high IQ people.

Offline astr0144

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I assume that the list of IQ / Professions could be reasonably accurate and yes can also be estimated to the expected earnings that one could also get on average.. but the earnings side to it will also a have other factors.. like what company one would work for.. or ones personality along with other factors.

But I think when we look at that list as a guide.. it seems that its listing some of the medical professions as being the most demanding and requiring the cleverer people...

I think we all respect or look up to Doctors..

In terms of why would a Surgeon be required to be of such higher Intellegence... is because their job demands it...

They have to know and be good at all the Sciences...
that includes Biology, Chemisty and Physics or other things related..and Mathematics and good communication..

and also be accurate and fast at what they do..as well as having the good hand skills that you referred to..

But I do not think its needs to be as high as 230 IQ...
Judging from what you posted...


Quote
Why do they (Surgeons )need to be more intelligent?

Quote
Those estimations sound more like preconceived ideas about jobs.

That can be the case where Teachers / Professors hope to see their students pass exams as that suggests that they have done well in teaching or getting their students to have lerned well to pass an exam..

and yes that helps them justify themseleves to get paid..

Some may be concerned about their students futures..
but in todays environment over recent years .. they may be aware its hard to predict and not really be that concerned.

In some exams , (where they set the exam) some may also help students pass exams by giving the students some extra type help or guidence or tip offs.. to aid them in the right areas to study or give also identical egs of what maybe on a exam..

I say that as I have experienced it..

This can aid the student in not having to study certain areas or to just study certain parts...it may then get the teacher more or better student results.

but in the longer term, that may not really be better for the student when they enter the real world..It could help the student look better or get passes or better results...

but they may not really have deserved to have had such aid to help them in such ways and may not be as good or to have studied as well to really have improved themselves...

But thats another area of many factors..when we are young... we all want to pass exams and often are greatful for help..

and often .. many of us cannot remember much of the stuff anyway some months later..or we can learn something and know or understand it at the time... but may not recall it too well some time later...and we all vary !

Quote
Exactly. The problem is that most professors are just waiting for their paycheck and not worried about the students' future, the few that are can really make a difference.

I was surprised myself that they put Mathematicians at the level that they did ... and yes in terms of them knowing Maths.. in general... you would think they would be better than other professions in that subject.. when for eg comparing Engineering or maybe also Science  jobs.. as all them need high level maths.. but often may not be as good in that area as a mathematician..

But it could be also in ref to their level of related income as you suggest.

In terms of the Sciences.. I always thought that Id read that Biology was the hardest of the main 3 Sciences....
I think you could also include a reasonable level of Chemistry and Physics as being required in the subject..

but I had also heard at sometime Physics was at one time..
But I also think Chemistry is hard to learn..

The list showed Physics / Physicists as being the higher at about 125... and that was shown as being higher than a mathematician that was shown around 120..

then have Biology at about 111 ...   then Chemistry was listed about 108..

I think some parts of Chemistry can be really complex when taking all the various Elements and compounds that can be created into consideration.. I find things like the equations hard to understand.. and they can get very complex..

But I think some of those may only be entry level and not a true guide... if say someone studies to degree level..those people would probably have higher IQs to get to that level.

Einstein was said to have about a 160 IQ which is much higher than the 125 level it refers to..and Bob Lazar or anyone similar in that type of work I think would be in the higher levels..

I did find an interesting website that showed the IQ of many top people...inc Presidents, Scientists and celeberaties..and past known people thru out history..like Devinci or Darwin..

If Kim Ung-yong is suggested as having one of the highest IQ scores on record... then I would think Surgeons only would be more between the 160 to 200 range..and not 234..

What I find rather a bit weird about all this.. was at school they used to do an end of Junior school exam where for those who got high passes over a set figure.. those students coud go to a higher level school.. and I believe that the pass level was about 110 IQ.. and only about 25% would pass it..

The majority were somewhere between the average 100 IQ and 110... so on average a huge estimated  75  % of students are within that 10 % range...

But to then get to say one of those higer levels shown in that list... for say Engineers... or Science related or Pilots..

you need to get another 10 to 20 % higher..

an 10 % does not seem that much...but what amazes me is.. that 10% could be quite a mental strain to try to achieve even if it is possible to improve...and I am almost certain we all could improve by maybe 5% or more if we worked hard enough and had the right help..

BUT  we see some... who then have  to obtain a further 10% more to say become a Dentist... then another 20% to be a  Doctor..

At school I was NEVER told any of this... and I think the system holds it back.. and they KNOW very early on where we are bracketed..

BUT we get told work hard enough and you can do anything you want in Life..

Well from what my research suggests that is not true !

So I think ... only about 25% get to do the better higher paid professions..or earn salaries that on average would make their lifes much better..

Its a mystery as to why many of us may seem restricted..
and I sometimes wonder do we maybe have hidden potential... that would allow us to reach higher levels..

that there have been some many factors that restrict us..that maybe should not do...

I wonder if we were informed of this and understood it , at earlier ages , as to would it help us reach higher levels if we wanted to do so..

Quote
That list is silly. For example, a mathematician needs to know all the math (and more) that any of the engineering jobs above on the list need to know.
It looks more like an income list translated to an IQ list.

PS: Einstein was a theoretical physicist, something not listed. Physicists are on number 12 on that list.  :P

PPS: after a little Internet search, it looks like one of the people with highest IQ ever recorded is a Korean civil engineer, Kim Ung-yong. Surgeons do not appear in any list of high IQ people.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2017, 05:26:10 PM by astr0144 »

Offline ArMaP

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I think we all respect or look up to Doctors..
I don't, to me they are just another type of worker, with some bad and some good, some that follow that career to help people and some to just get more money and respect.

Quote
In terms of why would a Surgeon be required to be of such higher Intellegence... is because their job demands it...

They have to know and be good at all the Sciences...
that includes Biology, Chemisty and Physics or other things related..and Mathematics and good communication..
All doctors need to know that, there's nothing special (as far as I know) that a surgeon needs to study that other (specialized) doctors do not have to study.

After a few Internet searches it looks like they study exactly the same things a GP doctor (GP doctors also learn how to do surgeries), but they have to spend several years as trainees, working under doctors that are already surgeons, until they qualify as a surgeon. It looks like they just have to show in real life that they can be good surgeons, but they don't need much more studies than other doctors, only technical stuff about how to do the surgeries.

Quote
In terms of the Sciences.. I always thought that Id read that Biology was the hardest of the main 3 Sciences....
I think you could also include a reasonable level of Chemistry and Physics as being required in the subject..
Biology must be hard, as the basis is Chemistry, so they also need to learn Chemistry (I suppose), but only the part of Chemistry that is related to biology. Physics must also be hard, as it applies to every physical aspects of the world around us.

Quote
But I also think Chemistry is hard to learn..
I found it hard to learn at school, as I couldn't find any logic behind it.

Offline thorfourwinds

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Greetings:

ArMaP, you continue to amaze.. thank you for all you do.

Too funny: Trivia

My company, RAINBOW GRAPHICS, created much of the early visuals (pun) for Visual Basic. I have them stored on a Syquest somewhere…LOL

I met Alan Cooper through Gary Kildall when Gary toured our Vector Aeromotive facility in Wilmington, CA in anticipation of purchasing a Vector.


And Gary shared the story of why CP/M is not at the forefront of computer operating systems instead of MS-DOS. Personally, I think Dorothy did the right thing by not signing the non-disclosure agreement and their attorney agreed, even though it turned out to be a multi-billion dollar mistake, and Microsoft and IBM screwed him.

Somewhere, I have a rare Computer Connections signed by Gary. He reminded me a lot of Richard Branson for a variety of reasons. I guess he got a minor 'revenge' when he sold DRI to Novell, where Eric Schmidt ran Novell into the ground - a performance which some insiders was a purposeful action.

Eric Schmidt is probably an Archon anyway.  :P
EARTH AID is dedicated to the creation of an interactive multimedia worldwide event to raise awareness about the challenges and solutions of nuclear energy.

 


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