collapse

Author Topic: Mandalay: The biggest shooting since Columbine.  (Read 2910 times)

Offline petrus4

  • Iconoclast
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2052
  • Gold 616
Mandalay: The biggest shooting since Columbine.
« on: October 02, 2017, 07:17:53 AM »
a}  Suspect was a customary "lone nut."

From memory, the traditional scenario is that early witnesses and media reports will mention multiple shooters, but once the site has been secured, the story reverts to the "lone nut," claim.  I wasn't paying attention early on this time, so someone else will need to confirm or deny that in this case.

b}  Suspect has large cache of weapons on-site; police supposedly found weapons and explosives at the Sandy Hook shooter's residence.  Suspects being depicted as amateur weapons experts with stockpiles has become somewhat traditional for these incidents, I've noticed.

c}  Photos of isolated bodies are on Google Images, but I'm not seeing the large number of corpses that I would expect from the numbers cited.

d}  Suspect's age is unusually high; 64.  I can't remember an earlier shooter being much older than 35.

e}  Suspect was apparently shot by police in his room, although the first account I read said that he was already dead when the police found him.

Although it's probably still a bit early, so far it looks like a fairly standard false flag.  About the only two details that stand out to me, are the shooter's age, and the fact that they apparently aren't attributing this one to terrorism.  They seem to be claiming that he was a local resident who acted alone.

I will be interested to see how Trump uses this, and what the political and legal consequences will be.  I'm assuming there will be massively increased pressure on the second amendment, with the usual suspects among the Leftist media in support of it.
"Sacred cows make the tastiest hamburgers."
        — Abbie Hoffman

Offline petrus4

  • Iconoclast
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2052
  • Gold 616
Re: Mandalay: The biggest shooting since Columbine.
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2017, 07:35:06 AM »
According to Zero Hedge, there were initial reports of multiple shooters before the story was changed to the "lone nut" narrative...as usual.
"Sacred cows make the tastiest hamburgers."
        — Abbie Hoffman

Offline Shasta56

  • The Roundtable
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1390
  • Gold 137
Re: Mandalay: The biggest shooting since Columbine.
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2017, 08:57:40 AM »
James Holmes was an amateur with a stockpile.  He even had body armor.  He also rigged his apartment to blow up.  The Columbine shooters were high school students. They had explosives. This stuff happens. 

Shasta
Daughter of Sekhmet

Offline petrus4

  • Iconoclast
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2052
  • Gold 616
Re: Mandalay: The biggest shooting since Columbine.
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2017, 09:15:06 AM »
He also rigged his apartment to blow up.

Why though, Shasta?  That's the question.  Did he "just snap?"  Is everyone who carries out one of these incidents a "lone nut" who "just snaps?"

"Just snapping," is not an explanation.  It's specifically avoiding an explanation.  Even if the government is not involved, we still need to figure out why people "just snap," so that we can prevent the usual loss of life from occurring when the next person does.
"Sacred cows make the tastiest hamburgers."
        — Abbie Hoffman

Offline Shasta56

  • The Roundtable
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1390
  • Gold 137
Re: Mandalay: The biggest shooting since Columbine.
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2017, 09:24:31 AM »
A doctor at University Hospital had a file on James Holmes.  She knew he was mentally unstable and dangerous.  She chose to hide behind doctor/patient confidentiality.  That rule doesn't apply when someone poses a threat to self or others.  The Columbine shooters had a history of being bullied for being different.  I can only address the stuff that I happened in my realm and affected me directly.  I have insufficient knowledge in the other cases.

Shasta
Daughter of Sekhmet

Offline petrus4

  • Iconoclast
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2052
  • Gold 616
Re: Mandalay: The biggest shooting since Columbine.
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2017, 10:08:24 AM »
I can only address the stuff that I happened in my realm and affected me directly.  I have insufficient knowledge in the other cases.

Shasta

I apologise if it sounded as though I was attacking you.  That was not my intention.
"Sacred cows make the tastiest hamburgers."
        — Abbie Hoffman

Offline petrus4

  • Iconoclast
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2052
  • Gold 616
Re: Mandalay: The biggest shooting since Columbine.
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2017, 10:11:03 AM »
More information in the below image.

"Sacred cows make the tastiest hamburgers."
        — Abbie Hoffman

Offline astr0144

  • The Roundtable
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3980
  • Gold 307
Re: Mandalay: The biggest shooting since Columbine.
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2017, 11:17:56 AM »
I watched the news early in the morning about 7 am iin the UK and it said 1 or 2 had been killed ..24 wounded of which 12 were in serious condition..

yet I did think surely hearing all the firing, that there must have been many more people hit...or badly injured.

I check the internet 12 hours later and now it says 58 killed.

Unbelievable  & horendous. !   :o

There was also rumors of other shootings at other L.V hotels around the same time.. but I think that was just social media suggestions.

Hope "Z" or any other members were not at the hotel concert event at the time.

I doubt John would attend but his Family may have..

Im not sure IF "Z" would attend such events or how far away from the hotel any of them live from it distance wise..But I dont think they are on the South side of Vegas..

Las Vegas shooting: Gunman who killed 58 had 'at least eight guns in hotel room'

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/las-vegas-shooting-least-two-dead-gunman-opens-fire-hotel-balcony-near-casino-065154574.html
« Last Edit: October 02, 2017, 11:30:39 AM by astr0144 »

Offline Shasta56

  • The Roundtable
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1390
  • Gold 137
Re: Mandalay: The biggest shooting since Columbine.
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2017, 01:29:46 PM »
I think I'm just touchy about shootings.  I was working at the hospital where some of the Columbine victims up, James Holmes did his dirty work in my wheelhouse, and I stayed at Mandalay Bay last year.  Exactly one floor above where the shooter was.  We had the suite on the 33rd floor.  Quite a spectacular view.  And I was in a drive by shooting back in 1993.  Didn't get hit, but I certainly wasn't happy about it.  And Denver Police tried to blow it off as fireworks. 

Shasta
Daughter of Sekhmet

Offline ArMaP

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9998
  • Gold 751
Re: Mandalay: The biggest shooting since Columbine.
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2017, 03:58:57 PM »
There have been bigger shootings after Columbine. Columbine had 15 dead (including the shooters), but since then they had the 2007 Virginia Tech shooting (33 dead, including the shooter), the 2012 Sandy Hook shooting (28, including the shooter), the 2015 San Bernardino shooting (16 dead including the shooters) and the Orlando nightclub shooting (50 dead including the shooter).

a}  Suspect was a customary "lone nut."

From memory, the traditional scenario is that early witnesses and media reports will mention multiple shooters, but once the site has been secured, the story reverts to the "lone nut," claim.  I wasn't paying attention early on this time, so someone else will need to confirm or deny that in this case.
Some people said there was more than one shooter, but the sound in the videos I saw sounded like just one gun. Typically, this type of action is done by just one person, not only in the US but all around the world.

Quote
b}  Suspect has large cache of weapons on-site; police supposedly found weapons and explosives at the Sandy Hook shooter's residence.  Suspects being depicted as amateur weapons experts with stockpiles has become somewhat traditional for these incidents, I've noticed.
If you are going to shoot lots of people are you going armed with just one gun? That wouldn't make much sense, although the Virginia Tech shooter had only two pistols and was not an amateur weapons expert.
In this Las Vegas case the brother of the suspect said he was not a "gun guy".

Quote
c}  Photos of isolated bodies are on Google Images, but I'm not seeing the large number of corpses that I would expect from the numbers cited.
58 people on an area close to 15000 square metres gives an average of more than 250 square metres for each body, so I'm not surprised. I would be surprised if the bodies were all close to each other.

Quote
d}  Suspect's age is unusually high; 64.  I can't remember an earlier shooter being much older than 35.
True, the Columbine shooters were 17 and 18 years old, the Virginia Tech shooter was 23 years old, the Sandy Hook shooter was 20 years old, the San Bernardino shooters were 28 and 29 years old and the Orlando nightclub shooter was 29 years old.

In a less famous and with "only" 10 deaths (including the shooter) case, the Red Lake shootings, the shooter was only 16 years old, and a member of ATS, the reason why I always remember that case.

Quote
e}  Suspect was apparently shot by police in his room, although the first account I read said that he was already dead when the police found him.
It looks like he killed himself before the police arrived at his room.

Quote
Although it's probably still a bit early, so far it looks like a fairly standard false flag.  About the only two details that stand out to me, are the shooter's age, and the fact that they apparently aren't attributing this one to terrorism.  They seem to be claiming that he was a local resident who acted alone.
It's common for cases like this to be the action of an isolated person. Sometimes it's just because they "don't like Mondays", like in the 1979 Cleveland Elementary School shooting, the case that inspired Bob Geldof to write "I don't like Mondays".

Quote
I will be interested to see how Trump uses this, and what the political and legal consequences will be.  I'm assuming there will be massively increased pressure on the second amendment, with the usual suspects among the Leftist media in support of it.
Well, if this had happened last year, people would be saying that Obama was trying to "get their guns", so I'm interested to see what people say this time. :)

Offline space otter

  • Pegasus Alternate Energy Team
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4877
  • Gold 681
Re: Mandalay: The biggest shooting since Columbine.
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2017, 04:25:28 PM »


10/02/2017 01:56 pm ET
It’s Completely Legal To Walk Around Las Vegas With A Machine Gun
Nevada’s lax gun laws are pretty much the norm in the U.S.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/nevada-gun-laws_us_59d235e4e4b06791bb11d6b8?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009

...............................................................

0/02/2017 06:38 am ET Updated 58 minutes ago
Here’s What We Know About Stephen Paddock, The Las Vegas Shooting Suspect
Police said the “sole aggressor” of the mass shooting killed himself.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/las-vegas-shooter-stephen-paddock_us_59d1fec6e4b09538b5093cbf?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009

The gunman who police said sprayed bullets into a crowd of people at a country music festival in Las Vegas was an avid gambler who lived in an upscale retirement community about 80 miles outside the city.

Stephen Craig Paddock, 64, opened fire from his hotel room on the 32nd floor of the Mandalay Bay Resort and Casino around 10:15 p.m. on Sunday, during a performance by Jason Aldean at the Route 91 Harvest Festival, authorities said. At least 59 people were killed, making it the deadliest mass shooting in modern U.S. history. At least 527 others were injured.

A SWAT team blew open the entry to Paddock’s hotel room with an explosive and found him dead, police said. The hotel was across the street from the outdoor venue.
<>
Authorities seized at least one full-automatic rifle and as many as 19 other firearms from the room, The Wall Street Journal reported, citing an unnamed law enforcement official. The cache included AR-15-style and AK-47-style rifles and a large amount of ammunition. Sources also told The New York Times that at least 20 firearms were discovered in the hotel room.

<>
Stephen Paddock gambled more than $10,000 a day numerous times in recent weeks at Las Vegas casinos, according to NBC News, which cited a casino executive and a source who had seen reports to the government on cash transactions. Some of Paddock’s transactions topped $30,000, NBC said. It was unclear whether Paddock was a winner or loser, according to the network.

Paddock had no history of criminality that would raise red flags, police said.

<>

Stephen Paddock sold a house he owned in Melbourne, Florida, in 2015, the Sentinel noted, but it wasn’t clear whether he lived there.

Paddock bought his current residence in Mesquite in 2015, according to USA Today. The Sun City Mesquite senior complex features 1,400 homes, an 18-hole golf course, swimming pools and a recreation center.

Paddock owned two airplanes and had a private pilot’s license, according to public records.

A former Florida neighbor said Paddock described himself as a professional gambler and was “very trusting,” the Palm Beach Post reported. Don Judy recalled how Paddock handed him a house key on their first meeting in 2013, asking him to check on his home and welcoming him to use any new equipment inside.

<>

Authorities said they didn’t know what motivated the shooter.

ISIS claimed responsibility for the attack, but a law enforcement spokesman said in a press conference there is no indication of that.

The Paddock family reportedly has a notorious history. The Paddocks’ father was a bank robber who made the FBI’s Most Wanted List, Eric Paddock told outlets.


.....................................

Gun Stocks Climb After Las Vegas Shooting
Heightened fear after mass shootings often leads to more gun sales.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/gun-stocks-climb-after-las-vegas-shooting_us_59d24477e4b06791bb11f178?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009






i don't know or want to know how much more messed up humans can get

Offline A51Watcher

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3962
  • Gold 584
Re: Mandalay: The biggest shooting since Columbine.
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2017, 06:25:50 PM »
True, the Columbine shooters were 17 and 18 years old, the Virginia Tech shooter was 23 years old, the Sandy Hook shooter was 20 years old, the San Bernardino shooters were 28 and 29 years old and the Orlando nightclub shooter was 29 years old.


And the Batman movie killer was 25 -






Offline petrus4

  • Iconoclast
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2052
  • Gold 616
Re: Mandalay: The biggest shooting since Columbine.
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2017, 07:01:08 AM »
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/las-vegas-shooting-queensland-eyewitness-to-mandalay-attack/news-story/17c907f4046f30ccfedf831e27e93cc8

An Australian man at the scene claims to have witnessed multiple shooters.

In the interests of rational objectivity, I will say this:  If Steven Paddock is proven to have been the only shooter, then I will be more inclined to take the authorities at their word; but if accounts of multiple shooters continue to appear, and the police either deny those or refuse to comment on them, then I will remain suspicious about the possibility of a false flag.
"Sacred cows make the tastiest hamburgers."
        — Abbie Hoffman

Offline petrus4

  • Iconoclast
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2052
  • Gold 616
Re: Mandalay: The biggest shooting since Columbine.
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2017, 07:02:55 AM »


Here is a video in support of the two shooters theory as well.
"Sacred cows make the tastiest hamburgers."
        — Abbie Hoffman

Offline space otter

  • Pegasus Alternate Energy Team
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4877
  • Gold 681
Re: Mandalay: The biggest shooting since Columbine.
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2017, 08:37:23 AM »

pets r us

i'm not ruling out false flag just tossing this in

right after this, i saw about 4 different reports..one even said there were 4 shooters one dead, one in custody and two in the wind
then, the two shooters  and then a few more about who it was....

my kinda point is that immediately after something like this happens there is always someone in a rush to file their story and be first..
so before i make a judgement i  wait and see
reports from those who were there
but also knowing in the heat of horror there are also many perceptions and contradictions

with that many humans at the scene i'm sure the stories will be many and varied..so what to believe is fluid and changing
just my opinion, of course
« Last Edit: October 03, 2017, 09:57:46 AM by space otter »

 


Wal-Mart.com USA, LLC
affiliate_link
Free Click Tracking
Wal-Mart.com USA, LLC

* Recent Posts

Australien Skies 2 - Exclusive Premiere by thorfourwinds
[February 20, 2018, 10:10:11 PM]


Re: The Question We Should Be Asking by robomont
[February 20, 2018, 08:21:05 PM]


Re: The Question We Should Be Asking by petrus4
[February 20, 2018, 05:10:21 PM]


Re: The Question We Should Be Asking by Ellirium113
[February 20, 2018, 04:10:16 PM]


Re: The Question We Should Be Asking by ArMaP
[February 20, 2018, 01:52:22 PM]


Re: The Question We Should Be Asking by space otter
[February 20, 2018, 07:11:59 AM]


Re: The Question We Should Be Asking by Eighthman
[February 20, 2018, 05:53:51 AM]


Re: The Question We Should Be Asking by ArMaP
[February 19, 2018, 06:54:51 PM]


Re: The Question We Should Be Asking by robomont
[February 19, 2018, 06:28:01 PM]


Re: The Question We Should Be Asking by ArMaP
[February 19, 2018, 05:44:09 PM]


Re: The Question We Should Be Asking by robomont
[February 19, 2018, 03:28:14 PM]


Re: The Question We Should Be Asking by ArMaP
[February 19, 2018, 03:05:34 PM]


Re: The Question We Should Be Asking by robomont
[February 19, 2018, 02:35:45 PM]


Re: The Question We Should Be Asking by ArMaP
[February 19, 2018, 01:51:36 PM]


Re: The Question We Should Be Asking by petrus4
[February 19, 2018, 11:33:01 AM]


Re: The Question We Should Be Asking by Irene
[February 19, 2018, 11:12:13 AM]


Re: The Question We Should Be Asking by petrus4
[February 19, 2018, 08:20:35 AM]


Re: Mandalay: The biggest shooting since Columbine. by The Seeker
[February 18, 2018, 08:48:25 PM]


Re: Mandalay: The biggest shooting since Columbine. by spacemaverick
[February 18, 2018, 02:40:59 PM]


Re: Mandalay: The biggest shooting since Columbine. by The Seeker
[February 18, 2018, 02:31:52 PM]

affiliate_link