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Author Topic: What % of people die early on who Paid into the Pension and Benifits system.  (Read 917 times)

Offline astr0144

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I wonder : What % of people die early on, who Paid into the Pension and Benifits system and never had received anything back.

or the same for those  who may have only lived a few years into retirement..so they only received back a small % back to what had been paid in..

or if it was passed onto their spouse/ Husband / or partner and if they only then lived on a few years.

Someone once suggested to me that on average that the % of people who LIVE on 5 to 10 or more years, if say they retire at 65 years is quite Low.

This is just the standard Government Pension.. that as far as I know is equal to everyone... not like company pensions that can vary considerably ...often dependent upon ones profession earnings , status etc..

So How much are Governments receiving V paying out I wonder ?

I came across this post that  may be of interest to anyone who reads it,  if its not already been discussed in similar detail.

I wonder what % of any population pay into the Governments pension system and pass away before they reach retirement age without ever obtaining anything back from the system that they paid into..

I assume also that none of their entitlement also gets passed on to their family members other than to the spouse or partner (and only when they retire (which on average may be 10 to 20 years worth) (not sure if the get the full or part pension)) and only until they pass away. Which no doubt varies as to how long they live on...

But if they were to both pass away in a relatively short time.. as far as I know, it does not get passed onto their children in any way.

Then also what about the people who have paid in the system towards th benefits system that never have claimed anything ...

Should their be an issue if later their Children claim benefits ?

Maybe its relevant, but I believe that they certainy should be entitled to a certain % without being accusted of just being a scrounger..that many may often have suggested...as some people do not agree that people should be allowed benefits !


               --------------------------------------

I believe that This applies to the UK and certain other Countries as well :-

collected Social Security?

KEEP PASSING THIS AROUND UNTIL
EVERY ONE HAS HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO READ IT...
THIS IS SURE SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT!!!!

THE ONLY THING WRONG WITH THE
GOVERNMENT'S CALCULATION OF AVAILABLE SOCIAL SECURITY IS THEY FORGOT
TO FIGURE IN THE PEOPLE WHO DIED BEFORE THEY EVER COLLECTED A SOCIAL SECURITY CHECK!!!

WHERE DID THAT MONEY GO?

Remember, not only did you and I contribute to Social Security but your employer did, too. It totaled 15% of your income before taxes.

If you averaged only $30K over your working life, that's close to$220,500.
Read that again.

Did you see where the Government paid in one single penny?

We are talking about the money you and your employer put in a Government bank to insure you and me that we would have a retirement check from the money we put in, not the Government.

Now they are calling the money we put in an entitlement when we reach the age to take it back.

If you calculate the future invested value of $4,500 per year (yours & your employer's contribution) at a simple 5% interest (less than what the Government pays on the money that it borrows).

After 49 years of working you'd have$892,919.98.

If you took out only 3% per year, you'd receive $26,787.60 per year and it would last better than 30 years (until you're 95 if you retire at age 65) and that's with no interest paid on that final amount on deposit!

If you bought an annuity and it paid 4% per year, you'd have a lifetime income of $2,976.40 per month.

THE FOLKS IN WASHINGTON HAVE PULLED OFF A BIGGER PONZI SCHEME THAN BERNIE MADOFF EVER DID.

Entitlement my foot; I paid cash for my social security insurance!

Just because they borrowed the money for other government spending, doesn't make my benefits some kind of charity or handout!!

Remember the benefits for members of Congress?

+ free healthcare,
+ outrageous retirement packages,
+ 67 paid holidays,
+ three weeks paid vacation,
+ unlimited paid sick days.


Now that's welfare, and they have the nerve to call my social security retirement payments entitlements?


They call Social Security and Medicare an entitlement even though most of us have been paying for it all our working lives, and now, when it's time for us to collect, the government is running out of money.

Why did the government borrow from it in the first place? It was supposed to be in a locked box, not part of the general fund.


Sad isn't it?
99% of people won't have the guts to forward this.
I'm in the 1%
« Last Edit: September 01, 2017, 10:02:02 AM by astr0144 »

Offline Irene

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When you are getting ready to retire you fill out a few forms. One of the questions asks if you want to allow your heirs to collect after your death or if you want benefits to cease at your death.
Shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods.....

Offline astr0144

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If so, I assume that most people would opt for their heirs to receive.. and I also assume it only gets paid to the Spouce or Husband or partner.. not to their Children or relatives...

When you are getting ready to retire you fill out a few forms. One of the questions asks if you want to allow your heirs to collect after your death or if you want benefits to cease at your death.

Offline Irene

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If so, I assume that most people would opt for their heirs to receive.. and I also assume it only gets paid to the Spouce or Husband or partner.. not to their Children or relatives...

The retiree specifies who he wants it to go to. If he doesn't, it goes to the spouse, then the children.
Shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods.....

Offline Somamech

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Good question!

It would be an amazing piece of economic journalism for someone to take the time to expose that one aspect of Pension Fund's mate!

Here in Australia, we have whats called Superannuation:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superannuation_in_Australia

For most people and even myself, I let some big corporation invest my money, which the government also taxes per individual.  Great deal huh?  :D






Offline Somamech

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Life expectancy at 65

https://data.oecd.org/healthstat/life-expectancy-at-65.htm

Sorry this link will not answer the question, but at least these are links that data are driven from

https://data.oecd.org/healthstat/life-expectancy-at-65.htm


Offline Somamech

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In australia this is not an answer to your great question as I doubt the data is out there in public.

But Super/Pension is forgotten about!  Here's a warning from the aussie taxation office in 2014:

New statistics reveal $14 billion in lost super

Quote
New statistics released this week by the Australian Taxation Office (ATO) reveal that more than $14 billion in lost super is waiting to be claimed.

Assistant Commissioner John Shepherd says that of particular concern are the billions of dollars sitting in super accounts where funds have lost contact with the owner.

“There’s over $6 billion of super sitting in accounts where funds have not been kept up-to-date with changes to personal details,” said Mr Shepherd.

“It’s easy for this to happen because when people get married or move house, the last thing on their mind is updating their name and address details with a super fund.”

“It is also important to make sure your super fund has your tax file number, this will allow us to display your super accounts online and help reunite you with your super,” he said.

An additional $8 billion in super is sitting in accounts that have not received a contribution in five years or more.

“More than 40 per cent of super account holders have more than one account. Many of these additional accounts have not received a contribution for quite some time, and those with small balances can be eroded by super fund fees and charges.” said Mr Shepherd.

“We see many people failing to take advantage of their ability to choose a fund when they start a new job. Instead, they end up opening up a new account with a different fund each time they change jobs.”

Now is an ideal time to check if you have any lost or ATO held super accounts by creating a myGov account and linking to the ATO. Since 1 July 2014, we have already helped Australians consolidate 49,000 super accounts online.

“After you’ve electronically lodged your tax return, it only takes a minute to use SuperSeeker and check out whether you have any accounts that can be rolled into your main one,” said Mr Shepherd.

“Using SuperSeeker’s simple online form you can also roll super accounts that you no longer need into one and in most cases it only takes three days for a fund-to-fund transfer.”

“It's an easy way to reduce unnecessary fees and make the most of your retirement savings,” he said.

SOURCE:

https://www.ato.gov.au/Media-centre/Media-releases/New-statistics-reveal-$14-billion-in-lost-super/

Offline ArMaP

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In Portugal things don't work like that, as soon as you start paying Social Security (which means as soon as you start working) you have access to most benefits, but the retirement pension is based on how many years you worked before retirement and how much were you paying.

In my case I'm too young to get a retirement pension. If I asked for a partial disability pension I would get roughly half of my salary, but I would need a doctor's certificate to prove I have some kind of disability

Offline astr0144

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I will have to try to find out if Children can have their parents Govt Pension past onto them in the U.K, but as far I am aware it can only be past on to ones Partner..(Spouse or Husband)

and I may even be mistaken about that... as that may only apply to a Private or Company pension.

If you can have a deseased Parents GOVERMENT pension  past onto ones Children  in North America  (USA / Canada) that  is interesting to know.

But would that only be when the Children become pension age..or at what age ?  as otherwise how long would they get it  for... if the Parents passed away when either the Children were young...be it say between age 1 to 16 years... or after they are working age..  Theres no way I can imagine that they would get monthly pay out over their working life.. but maybe they would get a lump sum payout...

I suspect that with it being a standard GOVT pension that all Employees pay into... that also it would not matter if the Parent had made out a Will or not !


The retiree specifies who he wants it to go to. If he doesn't, it goes to the spouse, then the children.

Offline astr0144

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Thanks for your comments / feedback Somamech.

I think yes it maybe a difficult to obtain a satifactary answer to this question ! ...as well as maybe varying dependent upon ones Country...

(I am adding in this link as It refers to something later that I think should have been included in the 1st post.. but this is the only one that I can still modify at the time I am writing that is closest to the first post and at least will show up on  1st page of posts..) as I think it is important to try to explain..

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=10586.msg139577#msg139577   
............

I thought somewhere that I had come across data and maybe a suitable type of chart that showed the average % of people who die from say the age of 65 to 90..or at least in 5 year intervals after age of 65 years..

I came across the UK National Statisics website that seems to have a lot of related type of material on it, but I find some of it quite complex or complicated to try to understand.

It may take quite a bit of research, study , and thought time to try to come to a suitable conclusion if it is possible..

This is only for egs in the UK, but it maybe similar % wise in most of  the Western World Countries..

then there are other things like comparing to past years.. as to what the % was like say  over the last 100 years at say 10 year intervals.. and maybe also how some areas will vary in ones own country.. as for eg some citys in the North of England generall will not live as long as those in the South of England...

On Average for what ever reason the Southerners seem to have  better options...education..more chance of good employment  etc.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/lifeexpectancies/bulletins/nationallifetablesunitedkingdom/2014-03-21

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/lifeexpectancies/bulletins/lifeexpectancyatbirthandatage65bylocalareasintheunitedkingdom/2014-04-16

Somamech
Quote
In australia this is not an answer to your great question as I doubt the data is out there in public.

But Super/Pension is forgotten about!  Here's a warning from the aussie taxation office in 2014:

Quote
Good question!

It would be an amazing piece of economic journalism for someone to take the time to expose that one aspect of Pension Fund's mate!

Quote
For most people and even myself, I let some big corporation invest my money, which the government also taxes per individual.  Great deal huh?  :D



« Last Edit: September 01, 2017, 03:25:00 PM by astr0144 »

Offline Irene

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Re: What % of people die early on who Paid into the Pension and Benifits system.
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2017, 02:09:38 PM »
I will have to try to find out if Children can have their parents Govt Pension past onto them in the U.K, but as far I am aware it can only be past on to ones Partner..(Spouse or Husband)

and I may even be mistaken about that... as that may only apply to a Private or Company pension.

If you can have a deseased Parents GOVERMENT pension  past onto ones Children  in North America  (USA / Canada) that  is interesting to know.

But would that only be when the Children become pension age..or at what age ?  as otherwise how long would they get it  for... if the Parents passed away when either the Children were young...be it say between age 1 to 16 years... or after they are working age..  Theres no way I can imagine that they would get monthly pay out over their working life.. but maybe they would get a lump sum payout...

I suspect that with it being a standard GOVT pension that all Employees pay into... that also it would not matter if the Parent had made out a Will or not !

In the US, when the retiree dies the private pension payments to the spouse or children begin immediately. They do not have to wait until retirement.

Children are also eligible for Social Security payments under certain circumstances, but I don't know what the requirements are.
Shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods.....

Offline astr0144

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Re: What % of people die early on who Paid into the Pension and Benifits system.
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2017, 02:17:57 PM »
When you say Retirement Pension is based on how many years you work and  much you are paying in...

Does this refer to Government Pension ? ... as I thought in the U.K Employees all paid in the same and obtained the same amount on retirement...

It is only on a Private (and maybe a Company) Pension that you can pay in more as far as I was aware !

It maybe that many other Countries incl the USA do not have a  Government pension and have had to have Company or private pensions..

In Portugal things don't work like that, as soon as you start paying Social Security (which means as soon as you start working) you have access to most benefits, but the retirement pension is based on how many years you worked before retirement and how much were you paying.

In my case I'm too young to get a retirement pension. If I asked for a partial disability pension I would get roughly half of my salary, but I would need a doctor's certificate to prove I have some kind of disability

Offline Irene

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Re: What % of people die early on who Paid into the Pension and Benifits system.
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2017, 02:20:13 PM »
When you say Retirement Pension is based on how many years you work and  much you are paying in...

Does this refer to Government Pension ? ... as I thought in the U.K Employees all paid in the same and obtained the same amount on retirement...

It is only on a Private (and maybe a Company) Pension that you can pay in more as far as I was aware !

It maybe that many other Countries incl the USA do not have a  Government pension and have had to have Company or private pensions..

In my case, I was a government employee, so I get my pension through the agency I worked for. This is separate from Social Security, which kicks in as early as 62.
Shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods.....

Offline astr0144

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Re: What % of people die early on who Paid into the Pension and Benifits system.
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2017, 02:24:02 PM »
Do you only have Private Pensions in USA / Canada Irene ?

or do they have Governemnt pensions also ?

The initial article I was referring to I thought was based on Government pensions ...(Both USA and U.K and certain others) that we do have in the U.K..and have had for many years..

I am not too well up on Private type pensions as there are several types that you can take out..and Company pensions also vary...

Quote
In the US, when the retiree dies the private pension payments to the spouse or children begin immediately. They do not have to wait until retirement.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2017, 02:39:49 PM by astr0144 »

Offline Irene

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Re: What % of people die early on who Paid into the Pension and Benifits system.
« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2017, 02:28:03 PM »
Do you only have Private Pensions in USA / Canada Irene ?

or do they have Governemnt pensions also ?

The initial article I was referring to I thought was based on Government pensions ... that we do have in the U.K..and have had for many years..

I am not too well up on Private type pensions as there are several types that you can take out..and Company pensions also vary...

Private pensions through corporate entities are usually 401k accounts. Then there are government pensions for government workers, and Social Security is for all retirees.
Shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods.....

 


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