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Author Topic: Who Will Be The Next Scapegoat?  (Read 2499 times)

Offline petrus4

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Re: Who Will Be The Next Scapegoat?
« Reply #30 on: August 23, 2017, 11:43:55 AM »
you would have to smelt it several times to approach the grade of purity you would need to make blades, and then, after shaping your blade or spearpoint, you must temper the metal to make it strong

Thank you, Seeker.

I had figured that I would need to smelt it multiple times, yes; apparently there were certain things that were added to a crucible to make Wootz or Damascus steel.  They seem to have identified Vanadium as an ingredient.  There are a few blacksmith videos on YouTube which imply that making Damascus is relatively simple, but I do not believe them at all.  There is one person who I am inclined to view as legitimate, and the few hints he has given suggest that it is very complex.

Back on topic, I looked at the news this morning, and found it as depressing as usual.  I think what is bothering me most, is the fact that crap about Trump and race riots are literally all I seem to be able to find at the moment; I want to know about the positive things going on in the world.
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Offline Eighthman

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Re: Who Will Be The Next Scapegoat?
« Reply #31 on: August 23, 2017, 04:03:30 PM »
I would like to see a website or other source that provides a more realistic view of the coming breakdown of the US/Western world.  Yes, really bad stuff is going to happen but I doubt we return to the anything like the Stone Age.

Governments will be weak and ineffective but not non-existent.  Banks will limit withdrawals,  healthcare may degrade markedly.  Big cities will be a bad place to live.  Visit a 3rd world nation like Egypt, Central America and that will match some urban areas.  The US won't collapse like a tall pile in Jenga, it will break down in stages as money and skilled people leave various dependent groups behind.

I'm not claiming prophecy here - just trying to cope in a more rational fashion with obvious troubles coming our way. Grow your own food, know your neighbors, develop some part-time skills, stockpile prescription drugs you depend on...........and always take the opposite of whatever the government says to be true (like 'we won't raise taxes' ,  " we seek peace",  " etc)

Offline The Seeker

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Re: Who Will Be The Next Scapegoat?
« Reply #32 on: August 23, 2017, 06:37:25 PM »
I would like to see a website or other source that provides a more realistic view of the coming breakdown of the US/Western world.  Yes, really bad stuff is going to happen but I doubt we return to the anything like the Stone Age.
There are countless web sites that promote what you seek; to many of us, however, the doom and gloom you seek is not what we see as the probable future for the West 

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Governments will be weak and ineffective but not non-existent.  Banks will limit withdrawals,  healthcare may degrade markedly.  Big cities will be a bad place to live.  Visit a 3rd world nation like Egypt, Central America and that will match some urban areas.  The US won't collapse like a tall pile in Jenga, it will break down in stages as money and skilled people leave various dependent groups behind.
That is your perspective; I see large companies and corporations building new facilities here instead of moving to foreign soil; I see more and more companies hiring and the unemployment rate dropping; people need to quit whining and complaining and work for the changes they want to see; nothing in life is free except bad advice and doom porn

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I'm not claiming prophecy here - just trying to cope in a more rational fashion with obvious troubles coming our way. Grow your own food, know your neighbors, develop some part-time skills, stockpile prescription drugs you depend on...........and always take the opposite of whatever the government says to be true (like 'we won't raise taxes' ,  " we seek peace",  " etc)
The obvious troubles you speak of have always been looming on the horizon in some way, shape, or form for the last millenia, according to different people thru out that time period; today is no different than it was back then; the smartest move anyone can make is to forget about most of their modern toys and gadgets, spend some time learning to do basic life skills such as farming or simple survival skills without modern aids;

go live in the woods, mountains, or a desert area for a month with no more than what you can carry on your back; you might learn a few things...
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Offline Eighthman

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Re: Who Will Be The Next Scapegoat?
« Reply #33 on: August 23, 2017, 07:11:39 PM »
http://www.politifact.com/virginia/statements/2012/apr/23/frank-wolf/will-entitlement-programs-and-debt-consume-us-budg/

In about 7 years, there will be no Federal tax dollars left for anything but entitlements and debt payments.  Currently, the US is threatening more war with China, Russia, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Venezuela, North Korea, Yemen, Syria, and undisclosed African nations. 

Fact: Empires collapse.  History says so.

Offline The Seeker

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Re: Who Will Be The Next Scapegoat?
« Reply #34 on: August 24, 2017, 04:19:07 AM »
http://www.politifact.com/virginia/statements/2012/apr/23/frank-wolf/will-entitlement-programs-and-debt-consume-us-budg/

In about 7 years, there will be no Federal tax dollars left for anything but entitlements and debt payments.  Currently, the US is threatening more war with China, Russia, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Venezuela, North Korea, Yemen, Syria, and undisclosed African nations. 

Fact: Empires collapse.  History says so.
A re-structuring of the entire system is needed; Trump is working on making changes that will eliminate some of the problems, for the fed will get more revenue with lowering tax rates and eliminating loopholes in the system

the sheer physical size of the fed needs to be reduced; that is a fact; the stimulus  to promote industry over here is already being applied, along with the removal of highly restrictive regulations that have a choke hold on business; remove the incentives that have encouraged businesses to develop and move overseas;

You and every citizen can apply simple principals that also help; when I am contemplating making a purchase, I look and see where the item was made; if it doesn't say made in the USA, unless I just absolutely have to have it, I don't buy it.

The major problem, and one that can be fixed, is to get everyone to quit sitting on their fat butts complaining and to physically do something to at least try to make changes, doesn't have to be earth shattering, for small things add up.

There have always been doom and gloom sayers thru out history; it is very rare that they are ever correct. Instead of debating how bad it is going to be, try thinking about how good it could be, and how to make it better.

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Offline Eighthman

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Re: Who Will Be The Next Scapegoat?
« Reply #35 on: August 24, 2017, 05:24:37 AM »
I search desperately for metanoia and can't find much of any of it.  A turning around, a sense of 'what were we thinking?'.

Instead, it all looks like doubling down and blindly going in the same direction:  Afghanistan, sanctions, debt, legislative paralysis.....  I want to see a turning point in the US in particular or some wiser heads openly prevail. I lived thru Watergate and Vietnam and got a sense that the 'ship was righting itself'.

It seems like there's condemnation or a media shark fest at even a mention of reason or good sense.  As if logic was offensive now.

Offline The Seeker

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Re: Who Will Be The Next Scapegoat?
« Reply #36 on: August 24, 2017, 05:57:33 AM »
I search desperately for metanoia and can't find much of any of it.  A turning around, a sense of 'what were we thinking?'.

Instead, it all looks like doubling down and blindly going in the same direction:  Afghanistan, sanctions, debt, legislative paralysis.....  I want to see a turning point in the US in particular or some wiser heads openly prevail. I lived thru Watergate and Vietnam and got a sense that the 'ship was righting itself'.

It seems like there's condemnation or a media shark fest at even a mention of reason or good sense.  As if logic was offensive now.
  You are starting to see thru the smoke and mirrors  8) Logic is not a part of the the current mish mash of warped perspectives;

8 years of the big O being president were focused on destroying not only America but the idea that we can be anything other than what the MSM and social media decries it to be...

Over the course of the last 6 years I had 2 very intelligent but badly misguided millenials{ the company presidents son and son in law}that actually would listen to me when I would answer their questions or they wanted my opinion on matters pertaining to not only work but politics and many of the social issues of today

The net result has been that they have not only cast aside the programming from the very Left biased teachings of public school but have grasped the concept of seeing the world with open eyes and developing their own personal moral philosophy's instead of being one of the sheep, which in turn has had an impact on their circle of friends as well

Word of mouth and positive interaction with others is one of the main avenues of change on the common level; the roots of civilization is where you have to start if you wish to see the beginnings of change.
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Offline petrus4

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Re: Who Will Be The Next Scapegoat?
« Reply #37 on: August 29, 2017, 02:50:52 AM »
I search desperately for metanoia and can't find much of any of it.  A turning around, a sense of 'what were we thinking?'.

The two main reasons for that are hubris, and self-reinforcing feedback loops.

Empires have lifecycles, like all other things.  They are born, go through youth, adulthood, old age, and eventually die.  America is currently at that point where, even though reality has fundamentally changed from the state it was in when the country began, the people who run it will still continue to make the same (now unsuccessful) actions based on what worked in the past, because apart from anything else, they don't know any different.

Trump can not and will not substantially change anything, even if he wanted to.  America is owned by the military and the arms industry.  They are getting close to 50% of annual GDP at this point, and they are not going to give that up willingly.  They will also predictably kill anyone who attempts to force them to do so.  If the American government want the glory days back, then the smart thing to do would be to rebuild domestic civilian industry as much as possible, and stop buying everything from other people.  That won't happen though, because of the Pentagon.

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I want to see a turning point in the US in particular or some wiser heads openly prevail. I lived thru Watergate and Vietnam and got a sense that the 'ship was righting itself'.

Nixon had the sense to fall on his sword, at least politically speaking.  Trump will not; although I don't believe that any serious attempt will be made to remove or impeach him, because everyone well knows that if that is done, the rural population will explode.  The urban liberals can make whatever noise they like, but they would have less than no chance in a genuine fight with people who, unlike them, still have living memory of what it actually means to be authentically human.

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It seems like there's condemnation or a media shark fest at even a mention of reason or good sense.  As if logic was offensive now.

Millennials care about three things:-

a}  The ability to view themselves as the Gods of their own private universe, whether or not they actually are.  Millennials have been called atheistic, but it is more appropriate to call them homotheistic.  They worship themselves.

b}  The ability to indulge themselves sexually to a limitless degree, without criticism or consequence.  Any attempt to counter this will be mercilessly and relentlessly attacked.

c}  Maintaining group consensus.  As someone who has spent close to seven years on Reddit, this last point has been made particularly clear to me.  Millennials interpret any form of debate between differing opinions, no matter the level, as disharmony or discord, and will shut it down via any means available.  Millennials also can not tolerate freedom of expression in any form, because if you are free to express yourself, then you are free to express ideas which someone else might find offensive, or which might be contrary to the will of the Hive.
"Sacred cows make the tastiest hamburgers."
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Offline The Seeker

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Re: Who Will Be The Next Scapegoat?
« Reply #38 on: August 29, 2017, 04:03:44 AM »
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Empires have lifecycles, like all other things.  They are born, go through youth, adulthood, old age, and eventually die.  America is currently at that point where, even though reality has fundamentally changed from the state it was in when the country began, the people who run it will still continue to make the same (now unsuccessful) actions based on what worked in the past, because apart from anything else, they don't know any different
The winds of change have been blowing since Jan 20th, but don't expect to see miracles; it takes time; but things have been done to make big change, starting with the recension of 75 executive orders penned by obama(which, by the way, was 80% of what has been stifling the economy for the past 8 years) by the pen of Potus Trump on the 20th; even before assuming the office, Trump convinced both Ford Motor Co and Trane Air conditioner to build their new facilities here instead of on foreign soil

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Trump can not and will not substantially change anything, even if he wanted to.  America is owned by the military and the arms industry.  They are getting close to 50% of annual GDP at this point, and they are not going to give that up willingly.  They will also predictably kill anyone who attempts to force them to do so.  If the American government want the glory days back, then the smart thing to do would be to rebuild domestic civilian industry as much as possible, and stop buying everything from other people.  That won't happen though, because of the Pentagon.

Let's look at a couple of points: first, the O admin systematically cut and decreased the American military, to the point that it is smaller than it was before the start of WW2; one of Trump's first moves was to pump badly needed $$$ into the military; contrary to popular fake news, the US military likes Mr Trump

A lot of moves have been made already to promote the rebuild of the civilian infrastructure, including removing incentives and tax breaks that actually encouraged corporations to move overseas under the premise of helping 3rd world nations to develop ( it is perfectly fine to help those countries, but not at the cost of killing your own); He has also mandated that projects in the US should and will be made using domestic materials, not imports...

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Nixon had the sense to fall on his sword, at least politically speaking.  Trump will not; although I don't believe that any serious attempt will be made to remove or impeach him, because everyone well knows that if that is done, the rural population will explode.  The urban liberals can make whatever noise they like, but they would have less than no chance in a genuine fight with people who, unlike them, still have living memory of what it actually means to be authentically human.

Nixon got caught rigging the election, so he had little choice but to exit; and yes, the greater majority of the people are behind Trump, and all hell(to the point of open rebellion) would break loose; but the left has been talking impeachment since the day of the election; how can you impeach the president if he hasn't any impeachable offenses? And yes, I am openly promoting that people like Fienstein, Pelosi, McCain, and quite a few more need to follow Harry Reid and relocate to Jurassic Park with the rest of the dinosaurs...

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Millennials care about three things:-

a}  The ability to view themselves as the Gods of their own private universe, whether or not they actually are.  Millennials have been called atheistic, but it is more appropriate to call them homotheistic.  They worship themselves.
Narcissistic is more appropriate; intense self-indulgence leads to easily falling off the cliff, since they are so busy looking at themselves they don't see the cliff's edge

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b}  The ability to indulge themselves sexually to a limitless degree, without criticism or consequence.  Any attempt to counter this will be mercilessly and relentlessly attacked.
That,too, has it's own special pitfalls

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c}  Maintaining group consensus.  As someone who has spent close to seven years on Reddit, this last point has been made particularly clear to me.  Millennials interpret any form of debate between differing opinions, no matter the level, as disharmony or discord, and will shut it down via any means available.  Millennials also can not tolerate freedom of expression in any form, because if you are free to express yourself, then you are free to express ideas which someone else might find offensive, or which might be contrary to the will of the Hive.
The Hive mind is an appropriate description; the problem with that situation is that unless there are not open eyes and open ability to think available the hive will succumb to numerous predators
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Offline Eighthman

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Re: Who Will Be The Next Scapegoat?
« Reply #39 on: August 29, 2017, 05:09:58 AM »
http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/permanent-adolescence-epidemic-will-destroy-america/ri20771

An excellent read.  There are those who list the USA's many advantages over others as a nation.  My contention is, when do we cease to be a nation?  Will we become a collection of mobs seeking nothing more than entitlements?

Nixon did some good things (China, EPA) and he talked about a 'Silent Majority" that preserved the nation.  I hope that aggregate still exists to save us.

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Re: Who Will Be The Next Scapegoat?
« Reply #40 on: August 29, 2017, 09:05:31 AM »
http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/permanent-adolescence-epidemic-will-destroy-america/ri20771

An excellent read.  There are those who list the USA's many advantages over others as a nation.  My contention is, when do we cease to be a nation?  Will we become a collection of mobs seeking nothing more than entitlements?
evidently 48% of the population is now; Hillary and Bernie and all that crowd of loo-loos were promising them the moon; it don't work that way, some one has to pay for it, no matter what

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Nixon did some good things (China, EPA) and he talked about a 'Silent Majority" that preserved the nation.  I hope that aggregate still exists to save us.
Who do you think the 52% of the voters were that elected Trump  8) The hive mentality of the millenials and snowflakes is going to be their achilles heel; when you live in an ant hill sooner or later someone or something is going to pee on it
 ::)
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Offline Eighthman

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Re: Who Will Be The Next Scapegoat?
« Reply #41 on: August 29, 2017, 09:07:19 AM »
Actually, I wonder if that one passing comment is worth any thought: "hive mind".

Is there any chance that we are seeing a sort of evolution here?  Millennials becoming like bees or termites?  Or alien Grays?
Can we think of any way to distinguish this from simple mob activity?  My guess would be that they would have to build something useful, at least to themselves. Without anything positive, we default to narcissism.

Offline The Seeker

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Re: Who Will Be The Next Scapegoat?
« Reply #42 on: August 29, 2017, 01:44:12 PM »
Actually, I wonder if that one passing comment is worth any thought: "hive mind".

Is there any chance that we are seeing a sort of evolution here?  Millennials becoming like bees or termites?  Or alien Grays?
Can we think of any way to distinguish this from simple mob activity?  My guess would be that they would have to build something useful, at least to themselves. Without anything positive, we default to narcissism.
8thman, that entire generation has been programmed that it's allright to be mediocre, that there is no need or reason to try hard at anything; that if they fall on their ass that they will be taken care of and provided for: bovine feces.

Mobs are driven by strong emotion and total disregard for anything other than what they see as being vengeance in their minds.

Russ Limbaugh coined a phrase years ago: "mind-numbed robots" and unfortunately, most are semi-well educated, but have never been taught how to think, reason, or use that grey matter to solve problems  8)
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Offline petrus4

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Re: Who Will Be The Next Scapegoat?
« Reply #43 on: August 31, 2017, 09:04:52 AM »
8thman, that entire generation has been programmed that it's allright to be mediocre

Seeker, although I've mentioned being very Millennial psychologically in some respects, one of the things I've had to do, is take a good, hard look at what mediocrity really means.

Being Millennial for me, has meant first and foremost that I have unrealistic and distorted expectations, which in turn has meant that I've had to get my head out of the clouds.  At the moment I am re-focusing on tangible, physical survival; warmth, shelter, food, and water.  Most people these days are likely to laugh at that and say that it's easy, but the truth is that it isn't.  Even these supposedly high-flying 25 year olds in programming or whatever only really maintain the image while at Starbuck's.  Follow them home after that, however, and the image isn't so rosy; a lot of the time they're close to starving.  They have money, yes; but they're spending it at expensive retail food outlets which exist in a massively inflated economy.  They don't know how to cook, and they usually don't really know how to provide good nutrition for themselves.

So yes; to be quite honest, relative to people like Bill Gates or Richard Branson, I now think mediocrity is fine.  Mediocrity in my context, however, means minding my own business, (at least to a degree) and knowing how to solve my own immediate problems as effectively as possible.

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that there is no need or reason to try hard at anything

Again, this is something which I've had to try and get real about, from both ends of the spectrum.  If I don't do well, then I'm not necessarily in a position where someone else is going to entirely pick up the slack.  I'm buying rice, muesli and flour now, and I'm learning that if I haven't cooked, then I'm going to go hungry.  Given that I live in a communal environment, it's true that sometimes I can just sit outside and smoke cones and have someone else give me dinner; but even that is not free.  A person who cooks for me is going to want enough weed in exchange for it, that I would be ahead economically if I had cooked myself.

At the same time, however, I'm letting go of a lot of juvenile over-projections and flights of fancy that Amway brainwashed me with 20 years ago now.  I'm not expecting to be a rock star any more; but I'm also starting to believe that if I am conscientious, just because I'm not rich it doesn't automatically mean I'm a loser.  I am also starting to realise that it is much, much, MUCH more important to have real emotional and spiritual stability and strength than any amount of money.  My faith keeps me alive.

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Mobs are driven by strong emotion and total disregard for anything other than what they see as being vengeance in their minds.

I've realised recently that the biggest source of energetic weakening for me, has been to ever put myself on a pedestal where I am looking down at anyone else, and accusing them of being responsible for my own problems.  Some Christians would have called that wickedness, but the entire reason why I don't want to bother calling it wicked, is because doing that is also accusatory and therefore just keeps the whole dynamic and game going.  Rather than referring to everything as "evil," the way fundamentalist Christian preachers sometimes do, I've found that a much more beneficial approach is simply to realise that some actions will have undesirable consequences, so I shouldn't engage in them.
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Offline Irene

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Re: Who Will Be The Next Scapegoat?
« Reply #44 on: August 31, 2017, 11:10:37 AM »
Petrus,

My response to your post is this, if your parents had expected your generation to emotionally mature quickly, as had been the practice with earlier generations, you would have been well on your way to a prosperous life much earlier.

It is the practice now for parents to allow their children to be perpetual children. This has not served your generation well. It has handicapped you and, consequently, negatively affected future generations.

The goal in the past has been to raise intelligent, skilled, disciplined children as quickly as possible, the objective being for them to support themselves and contribute to society as a whole as soon as they reached legal age.

The last couple of generations lack the perspective of previous generations who battled through the Depression and two world wars. Obviously, it goes back further than that, but I don't think I need to recite the list.

There needs to be a generational shift back to the values of the past - personal responsibility, emotional maturity, reserve, solid work ethic, and selflessness.

Immature narcissism is murdering your future.
Shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods.....

 


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