Pegasus Research Consortium

John Lear's Question and Answers => John Lear's Question and Answer Area => Topic started by: zorgon on December 26, 2011, 03:00:57 am

Title: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: zorgon on December 26, 2011, 03:00:57 am
VINDICATION!!!

A long time ago (well about 5 years) we did a thread at ATS...

Revealed for the First Time Color Images of the Moon from Clementine Satellite (http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread237436/pg1)

Press Release - Pegasus Research Consortium -December 15th 2006

Now I will bring that info over here, but what is important for this thread is how that came about.

A couple of weeks before that dates 'someone' at Northwestern University sent me an email and links to some very large image files in .cub format  2.5 gigs in fact. Those files require Linux and a special program to few, but there were also large .tiff versions of the images.

So we posted that leak in that thread...  Clementine was 1994, so these color images have been around for some time. And naturally all the skeptics said "Oh yeah those have been out forever - no big deal"  well that was not true because it wasn't till a few weeks later that the USGS released their Map-A-Planet website using those .cub files as reference.

What is important is that at the same time those files were moved from North Western University... to Arizona State University. I found out later who sent us that leak... well not who but from where it came

Mark Robinson, Arizona State University, Tempe, AZ  Currently Principal Investigator of the LROC team
http://lroc.sese.asu.edu/EPO/Team/scientist.html


See it was his data base that we were linked to... and he was transferring his work from North Western to Arizona State... so we had about a 4 week head start on those images. When USGS got involved, the head of the project, Patty Garcia, sent me a personal thank you for all the hits they got on opening day because of our thread..

LOL We were USED :P  But hey... it's all good :D

Well I bring this up because of some news I saw today...


We should scour the moon for ancient traces of aliens, say scientists

Online volunteers could be set task of spotting alien technology, evidence of mining and rubbish heaps in moon images

(http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2011/12/21/1324476255469/A-pit-in-Mare-Ingenii-on--008.jpg)
A pit in Mare Ingenii, possibly the result of a collapsed lava tube. Natural tunnels like this would be ideal sites for an alien moon base. Photograph: Nasa

Quote
Hundreds of thousands of pictures of the moon will be examined for telltale signs that aliens once visited our cosmic neighbourhood if plans put forward by scientists go ahead.

Passing extraterrestrials might have left messages, scientific instruments, heaps of rubbish or evidence of mining on the dusty lunar surface that could be spotted by human telescopes and orbiting spacecraft.


Though the chances of finding the handiwork of long-gone aliens are exceptionally remote, scientists argue that a computerised search of lunar images, or a crowd-sourced analysis by amateur enthusiasts, would be cheap enough to justify given the importance of a potential discovery.

Prof Paul Davies and Robert Wagner at Arizona State University argue that images of the moon and other information collected by scientists for their research should be scoured for signs of alien intervention. The proposal aims to complement other hunts for alien life, such as the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence (Seti), which draws on data from radiotelescopes to scour the heavens for messages beamed into space by alien civilisations.

"Although there is only a tiny probability that alien technology would have left traces on the moon in the form of an artefact or surface modification of lunar features, this location has the virtue of being close, and of preserving traces for an immense duration," the scientists write in a paper published online in the journal Acta Astronautica.

"If it costs little to scan data for signs of intelligent manipulation, little is lost in doing so, even though the probability of detecting alien technology at work may be exceedingly low," they add.

The scientists focus their attention on Nasa's Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter (LRO), which has mapped a quarter of the moon's surface in high resolution since mid-2009. Among these images, scientists have already spotted the Apollo landing sites and all of the Nasa and Soviet unmanned probes, some of which were revealed only by their odd-looking shadows.

Nasa has made more than 340,000 LRO images public, but that figure is expected to reach one million by the time the orbiting probe has mapped the whole lunar surface. "From these numbers, it is obvious that a manual search by a small team is hopeless," the scientists write.

One way to scan all of the images involves writing software to search for strange-looking features, such as the sharp lines of solar panels, or the dust-covered contours of quarries or domed buildings. These might be visible millions of years after they were built, because the moon's surface is geologically inactive and changes so slowly.

The seismometer on Nasa's Apollo 12 mission detected only one impact per month from roughly grapefruit-sized meteorites within a 350km radius. According to Davies and Wagner, it could take hundreds of millions of years for an object tens of metres across to be buried by lunar soil and dust kicked up by these impacts.

An alternative approach would be to send tens of thousands of amateur enthusiasts images over the internet for examination, though this could lead to disagreements over what constituted an unusual, and potentially alien, feature.

The easiest artefact to find would probably be a message left behind intentionally. This might be held in a capsule and left in a large fresh crater like Tycho in the moon's southern highlands, the scientists write. Some longer-lasting messages could be buried at depth but fitted with transmitters that penetrate the lunar surface, they add.

Alien life might once have set up a lunar base in the underground networks of lava tubes beneath the moon's dark, basaltic plains, and perhaps have left rubbish when they departed. "The same factors that make lava tubes attractive as a habitat imply that any artefacts left behind would endure almost indefinitely, undamaged and unburied," the scientists write.

We should scour the moon for ancient traces of aliens, say scientists (http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2011/dec/25/scour-moon-ancient-traces-aliens?CMP=twt_fd)

Paul Davies and Robert Wagner

Wagner, Robert   PO BOX 873603 Tempe, AZ 85281-3603    Research Technician
http://lroc.sese.asu.edu/EPO/Team/staff.html


THIS IS THE REAL DEAL!!!!

THE SCIENTISTS AT ARIZONA STATE ARE GOING TO EXAMINE LUNAR ANOMALIES FOR SIGNS OF ALIENS

VINDICATION AT LAST!!!

WHAT A CHRISTMAS PRESENT :D


I will be out of town for four days and away from my computer. Can anyone contact Robert Wagner at ASU to get us a statement? I may have online access but not sure.

John how about it?

Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: zorgon on December 26, 2011, 03:02:20 am
(http://www.public.asu.edu/~rvwagner/images/rob_image.jpg)

Robert Wagner's ASU Homepage
http://www.public.asu.edu/~rvwagner/
Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: zorgon on December 26, 2011, 03:26:14 am
Two of the color images from Clementine

I will get back to this when I return, but wanted to leave you with two full color images as a sample...

These areas are the two major magnetic anomalies on near side and farside. The images are reduced from the full size available

Reiner Gamma Near Side

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/04images/Moon7/Womb/Womb001a.jpg)

Mare Marginas Farside

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/04images/Moon7/Blue_Glass/Blue_Glass001.png)

I will try to post in the evenings but if not, happy holidays to everyone...

See you when I get back
Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: exuberant1 on December 26, 2011, 06:00:04 am
This is strange.

People doing papers and writing articles on the topic is weird and abnormal. 

I wonder if they trust their data completely and if they think that such evidence could be altered or removed before it reached them.

I'd like to get a copy of the paper.
Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: Ellirium113 on December 26, 2011, 08:50:27 am
In my experience, if it sounds too good to be true it probably is. I can't see them giving up any pictures that are of any significance IMO. What would be the reason to allow this now?
Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: johnlear on December 26, 2011, 09:03:56 am
VINDICATION!!!


John how about it?


You are more familiar with the facts so also send him a copy of Aristarchus and ask him also for a statement on that.

Have a good trip!!!
Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: Pimander on December 26, 2011, 08:38:17 pm
We should scour the moon for ancient traces of aliens, say scientists (http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2011/dec/25/scour-moon-ancient-traces-aliens?CMP=twt_fd)
This is hard to believe.  After all the ridicule now they might ask for volunteers?  They could have asked before. ::)
Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: starwarp2000 on December 27, 2011, 12:15:35 am
All very interesting!

Disclose the knowledge of Alien Structures on the Moon? > As more Lunar Mappings are being done outside the control of NAZA (ESA/China), they must face the inevitable: These structures are obvious!

Create an excitement about the event >  Stir up public distrust and fear about the possibility of an advanced Alien Race operating in our Solar System.

Strike while the iron is hot > Von Braun's list: Oh, no! They are attacking us...........  :o  8)
Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: Captain Dave on December 27, 2011, 02:30:40 am
Hmmm, smells like a little whiff of Freedom? ???
 ::) Yeah right; I'm going back to my cage. lol

(mumbling on the way back) yeah, yeah, I know the World is Flat and we are the center of the Universe... Blah blah blah...
Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: Sgt.Rocknroll on December 27, 2011, 05:19:17 am
All very interesting!

Disclose the knowledge of Alien Structures on the Moon? > As more Lunar Mappings are being done outside the control of NAZA (ESA/China), they must face the inevitable: These structures are obvious!


I think the above is probably closer to the truth. With the Japanese, and the Chinese messing around up there, the fact that there are structures on the moon is bound to be forth coming. "Oh by-the-way, while we were flying around, we decided to stop for a lay-over at the 'Lear International SpacePort' for some rest and refueling."...IMO ::: Peace  8)
Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: Pimander on December 27, 2011, 05:24:49 am
It does seem as if it's just a matter of time before anything anomalous "up there" comes under close scrutiny by either foreign or private space travellers.  We shall see....
Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: Somamech on December 27, 2011, 07:57:13 am
Nice find  8)

Something else I noticed in the text ya quoted  ;)

Quote
One way to scan all of the images involves writing software to search for strange-looking features, such as the sharp lines of solar panels, or the dust-covered contours of quarries or domed buildings. These might be visible millions of years after they were built, because the moon's surface is geologically inactive and changes so slowly.

Hey so is it any coincidence that a Russian fringe scientist (who also seems to have funding) was in the States only in the last Six months and said "this is what we see on the moon" ?



 


Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: sky otter on December 27, 2011, 02:40:09 pm
 ;D

here's the huff/aol version

i think this is a cover your ass thing..cause they have seen just how good you guys are at this
and now they can say..wow..the only mistake those guys made is thinking it was ours'

2012- wake up time


http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2011/12/26/aliens-moon-acta-astronautica-seti-nasa-_n_1170217.html?ref=weird-news&ir=Weird%20News

Are Aliens On The Moon? Scientists Want YOU To Join The Search

American scientists want to enlist online volunteers to identify signs of alien life in moon images collected by NASA’s Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter (LRO). http://www.nasa.gov/

Physicists Paul Davies and Robert Wagner of Arizona State University http://sese.asu.edu/
believe there may be signs of extra terrestrial life http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2011/dec/25/scour-moon-ancient-traces-aliens?newsfeed=true
in the form of messages, scientific instruments, waste http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2011/12/23/space-ball-namibia_n_1167408.html
or evidence of mining that could be spotted by human telescopes and orbiting spacecraft.

In their paper published online in the journal Acta Astronautica, the pair wrote: “Although there is only a tiny probability that alien technology would have left traces on the moon in the form of an artefact or surface modification of lunar features, this location has the virtue of being close, and of preserving traces for an immense duration.

"If it costs little to scan data for signs of intelligent manipulation, little is lost in doing so, even though the probability of detecting alien technology at work may be exceedingly low.”

The paper adds: “Alien civilizations may have sent probes to our region of the galaxy. Any mission to the solar system would probably have occurred a very long time ago.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0094576511003249

“The lunar environment could preserve artefacts for millions of years.”

The LRO has been taking pictures of the moon’s surface since 2009, with more than 340,000 images collected so far. http://gizmodo.com/5871092/scientists-say-we-should-search-moon-for-alien-traces

The proposals would complement other hunts for alien life, including the Search For Extraterrestrial Intelligence (SETI), which uses data from radiotelescopes.
http://www.seti.org/  

 ??? ::)
Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: zorgon on December 30, 2011, 09:30:09 pm
Hey so is it any coincidence that a Russian fringe scientist (who also seems to have funding) was in the States only in the last Six months and said "this is what we see on the moon" ?

Got a link to that Russian guy? Might be important.  I'm back, will look into this. I wish I had time before because this is already going viral at websites that have always ridiculed this. We may have a long line up of volunteers :D I will have to try to put together a serious letter and see if we can't get in on this. I will work on it tomorrow.

I need to call Jack on this as he had the original connections and we have already asked LROC to look at Tsiolkovsky Crater... a request they complied with.

In the meantime I need to get a copy of their paper...

Searching for alien artifacts on the moon
P.C.W. Daviesa, R.V. Wagner
 (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0094576511003249)


Now the great thing about that paper abstract is that it has the contact info for both the authors...

P.C.W. Davies
Beyond Center for Fundamental Concepts in Science at Arizona State University, PO Box 871504 Tempe, AZ 85287, USA

R.V. Wagner
School of Earth and Space Exploration Lunar Recon Oribiter Sci Ops Cn, Arizona State University, Tempe, AZ, 85287, USA

Abstract:

Received 5 March 2011; revised 7 October 2011; Accepted 29 October 2011. Available online 23 November 2011.
Abstract

The Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence (SETI) has a low probability of success, but it would have a high impact if successful. Therefore it makes sense to widen the search as much as possible within the confines of the modest budget and limited resources currently available. To date, SETI has been dominated by the paradigm of seeking deliberately beamed radio messages.

However, indirect evidence for extraterrestrial intelligence could come from any incontrovertible signatures of non-human technology. Existing searchable databases from astronomy, biology, earth and planetary sciences all offer low-cost opportunities to seek a footprint of extraterrestrial technology. In this paper we take as a case study one particular new and rapidly-expanding database: the photographic mapping of the Moon's surface by the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter (LRO) to 0.5 m resolution. Although there is only a tiny probability that alien technology would have left traces on the moon in the form of an artifact or surface modification of lunar features, this location has the virtue of being close, and of preserving traces for an immense duration.

Systematic scrutiny of the LRO photographic images is being routinely conducted anyway for planetary science purposes, and this program could readily be expanded and outsourced at little extra cost to accommodate SETI goals, after the fashion of the SETI@home and Galaxy Zoo projects.
Highlights

? Alien civilizations may have sent probes to our region of the galaxy. ? Any mission to the solar system would probably have occurred a very long time ago. The lunar environment could preserve artifacts for millions of years. ? Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter provides a photographic database to search for artifacts. ? Searching the LRO database would make an excellent educational project

Keywords: SETI; Lunar reconnaissance orbiter; Extraterrestrial technology; Nuclear waste; Lava tubes; Regolith
Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: zorgon on December 30, 2011, 09:33:16 pm
An earlier paper... but related

A Search For Alien Artifacts On The Moon

ALEXEY V. ARKHIPOV Institute of Radio Astronomy, 4 Krasnoznamenaya Str., Kharkov, 310002 Ukraine

ABSTRACT

The moon is an attractor of alien artifacts, hence, the search for alien artifacts on the moon (SAAM) is a promising unique project developed by the Research Institute on Anomalous Phenomena (RIAP). SAAM activity and current results are reviewed.

INTRODUCTION

In recent years, interest has grown among researchers in the search for traces of extraterrestrial intelligence within the solar system. It has been shown earlier that within the time of existence of our planet, approximately 10 stars capable of having inhabited planets approached the Son to distances within 1.5 pc (Arkhipov, 1994a). Such distances can be covered by space probes even at the present day level of science and technology (Project Daedalus 1978). These researchers have chiefly concentrated on a search for artifacts which are in orbit, on the Earth, or on asteroids. It seems that this list should also include the moon (Graham 1990, Arkhipov, 1993a).

Paper: A Search For Alien Artifacts On The Moon (http://www.boomslanger.com/images/saam.pdf)
Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: zorgon on December 30, 2011, 09:52:38 pm
List of websites already covering this... (some links and leads provided by Sky Otter earlier) This should make the skeptics squirm :P

ASU Researchers Propose Looking for Ancient Alien Artifacts on the Moon (http://www.universetoday.com/92177/asu-researchers-propose-looking-for-ancient-alien-artifacts-on-the-moon/)
Universe Today

ASU cosmologist suggests studying moon for alien artifacts (http://www.physorg.com/pdf244116354.pdf) - [PDF][Archived]
Physorg.com

ASU Researchers Propose Looking for Ancient Alien Artifacts on the Moon (http://www.linecom.com/space-vehicles/44527-asu-researchers-propose-looking-for-ancient-alien-artifacts-on-the-moon.html)
Space City

Are Aliens On The Moon? Scientists Want YOU To Join The Search (http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2011/12/26/aliens-moon-acta-astronautica-seti-nasa-_n_1170217.html?ref=weird-news&ir=Weird%20News)
Huffington Post

THE SEARCH FOR EXTRATERRESTRIAL ARTIFACTS (SETA) (http://www.setv.org/online_mss/seta83.pdf) ROBERT A. FREITAS JR. - [PDF][Archived]
Xenology Research Institute, 8256 Scottsdale Drive, Sacramento, California 95828, USA.


Look for alien artifacts on moon, says renowned scientist (http://earthsky.org/space/look-for-alien-artifacts-on-moon-says-renowned-scientist)
Earth Sky


(http://en.esimg.org/upl/2011/12/apollo17_challenger_ascent_stage_thumb.jpg)
LRO image of Apollo 17 site. Image credit: NASA/GSFC/ASU

(http://en.esimg.org/upl/2011/12/surveyor6_LRO-e1325121248540.jpg)
This LRO image shows Surveyor 6 (that landed on the moon on November 10, 1967) casting an 18 meter-long shadow with the Sun just 8° above the horizon. Image credit: NASA/GSFC/Arizona State University.

(http://en.esimg.org/upl/2011/12/apollo17_challenger_ascent_stage-e1325120511287.jpg)
LRO image of the Apollo 17 Lunar Module Challenger descent stage. Image credit: NASA/GSFC/Arizona State University.

(http://en.esimg.org/upl/2011/12/LRO_Marius_Hills_Pit_lavatube-e1325120317794.jpg)
The Marius Hills pit, shown in this LRO image, is thought to be a possible skylight in a lava tube, in an ancient volcanic region. Image credit: NASA/GSFC/Arizona State University.

Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: zorgon on December 30, 2011, 10:50:42 pm
This is strange.
I'd like to get a copy of the paper.


Searching for alien artifacts on the moon
P.C.W. Daviesa, R.V. Wagner
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0094576511003249

Price is $41.00  I have written the authors to see if I can get a free copy
Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: Somamech on December 31, 2011, 10:31:30 am
Got a link to that Russian guy? Might be important.

 :o

Only a handful of people would believe the Russian Guy's I talk of which would consist of anyone who believes in the stargate program, and as ya know the Russian work is well beyond the COS method    :P 

Hope you had a nice holiday mate!   :D

Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: sky otter on December 31, 2011, 11:45:39 am
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0094576511003249
Corresponding author.

Vitae
(http://i45.servimg.com/u/f45/13/55/53/83/untitl19.jpg)
 Paul Davies is Director of the Beyond Center for Fundamental Concepts in Science at Arizona State University. His research spans cosmology, astrobiology and theoretical physics. He has made important contributions to quantum field theory in curved spacetime, with applications to inflationary cosmology and black holes. He was among the first to champion the possibility that microbial life could be transferred between Mars and Earth in impact ejecta. He also runs a major cancer research program funded by the National Cancer Institute. He is the author of 28 books, including most recently The Eerie Silence: Renewing Our Search for Alien Intelligence.
also bio here...http://cosmos.asu.edu/about/bio.htm
contact info here     http://cosmos.asu.edu/contact.htm
 
  (http://i45.servimg.com/u/f45/13/55/53/83/untitl20.jpg)Robert Wagner is an undergraduate student at Arizona State University majoring in Earth and Space Exploration. He works as a Research Technician in the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter Science Operations Center, where he is responsible for image evaluation and assessment. He has broad expertise in earth sciences and computing.
 contact info here http://sese.asu.edu/people/robert-wagner


 This article is not included in your organization's subscription. However, you may be able to access this article under your organization's agreement with Elsevier.



Purchase
Note to users: The section "Articles in Press" contains peer reviewed accepted articles to be published in this journal. When the final article is assigned to an issue of the journal, the "Article in Press" version will be removed from this section and will appear in the associated published journal issue. The date it was first made available online will be carried over. Please be aware that although "Articles in Press" do not have all bibliographic details available yet, they can already be cited using the year of online publication and the DOI as follows: Author(s), Article Title, Journal (Year), DOI. Please consult the journal's reference style for the exact appearance of these elements, abbreviation of journal names and the use of punctuation. 
There are three types of "Articles in Press":
•Accepted manuscripts: these are articles that have been peer reviewed and accepted for publication by the Editorial Board. The articles have not yet been copy edited and/or formatted in the journal house style.
•Uncorrected proofs: these are copy edited and formatted articles that are not yet finalized and that will be corrected by the authors. Therefore the text could change before final publication.
•Corrected proofs: these are articles containing the authors' corrections and may, or may not yet have specific issue and page numbers assigned.
 

Published by Elsevier Ltd.


........................................................


http://www.itwire.com/science-news/space/51983-aliens-on-moon-will-the-search-begin

If aliens left evidence of their prior visitations on the moon, NASA would already know about it... in fact, they would…Aliens on Moon: Will the search begin?
William Atkins
Saturday, 31 December 2011 06:27

Science - Space

Page 1 of 2Human explorers have ventured onto the Moon, but have aliens also made similar footsteps on the lunar surface? If the recommendation of two scientists is carried out, astronomers may make a search of the Moon for past evidence that aliens have visited our only natural satellite.

............................................

http://news.discovery.com/space/seti-to-scour-the-moon-for-alien-tech-111227.html

Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: Sgt.Rocknroll on December 31, 2011, 12:08:31 pm
Everyone is excited about this announcement of looking for alien artifacts on the moon. What about the human artifacts? And I'm not talking about APOLLO!
Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: zorgon on January 02, 2012, 12:19:58 pm
(http://avatarmaker.eu/free-avatars/avatars/abstract_231/abstract_18_a/space_fly_avatar_51116.jpg)     spacemaverick

From

Alejandro RojasUFO and paranormal researcher and journalist

Scientists Suggest Moon Photos May Reveal Extraterrestrial Visitation

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alejandro-rojas/scientists-suggest-moon-p_b_1173124.html

Scientists from Arizona State University are proposing that closely examining high resolution photographs of the moon, retrieved by the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter (LRO), may reveal "incontrovertible signatures of non-human technology." They argue that such a project is worthwhile and could be accomplished with a small budget.

More at above link. I wonder if the government would allow a launch of a private space vehicle for this purpose? Pegasus Forum is already doing a study but it would be interesting to get some pictures currently that could be trusted.  I remember John saying in another forum that pictures during a certain time period were the only ones you could trust.
Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: zorgon on January 02, 2012, 12:22:40 pm
(http://avatarmaker.eu/free-avatars/avatars/abstract_231/abstract_18_a/space_fly_avatar_51116.jpg)     spacemaverick

Got to thinking of alternative mentioned by someone else.  Just being able to link to the data here on earth would suffice instead of trying to launch your own vehicle.  Need to by-pass NASA though.
Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: zorgon on January 02, 2012, 12:24:04 pm
ASU is not NASA though they work with NASA. 

I am putting together a package for the team at LROC and will send it out soon. I figured to wait till after the holidays

If they are serious about this we should have a good chance as they already leaked us stuff in 2006 and did fulfill our request to look at Tsiolkovsky Crater area, where we found a lot of rocks disturbed.

I am gathering a few of our best images and will see what happens. They have access to all the full high res tiffs of all the images from LO, Apollo and LRO. They also have the huge .cub files but that requires a Linux system and a special viewing program and as the files are 1 to 2 gigabytes in size, viewing the original images will be hard on a normal PC

Hopefully if they are serious, they will look at the areas of interest from our point of view

The thread at ATS quickly turned into a derailment by the usual skeptics, even Phage, attacking the scientists to draw attention away from the concept.

I wrote a few people supporting it to stop and let it fade, and to come here and we will do this right

The mere fact that ASU even made a statement that we need to look for Alien Artifacts on the Moon images is a MAJOR victory for our side, no matter the results. It gives us credibility.

The trick now is to gather our resources and make sure they are not swamped with all the crazies out there :D
Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: zorgon on January 02, 2012, 12:27:25 pm
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0094576511003249
Corresponding author.

Thanks Sky Otter  ;D

I will get a letter out tonight and post a copy in this thread
Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: zorgon on January 02, 2012, 12:33:50 pm
Everyone is excited about this announcement of looking for alien artifacts on the moon. What about the human artifacts? And I'm not talking about APOLLO!

Alien Artefacts, our Military Outposts, Ancient Ruins and even Apollo props :P...

Its all good for now. At least they are officially LOOKING

Now I doubt that they will be allowed to actually find anything, but they are letting amateurs do the hunting :D

I want them to look at Aristarchus, Kings' Valley, Tsiolkovsky and in particular...Daedalus Crater

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/04images/Moon9/AS11_41_6156/Structure02a.png)
Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: The Seeker on January 02, 2012, 05:50:55 pm
By all means, stimulate them to examine Daedalus; lo0ks almost like Art Bell's compound out at Pahrumph  :D

Considering the amount of feces they have shoveled over the years trying to discredit and divert attention from anything of lunar origin, it does make one wonder if the PTB are quietly encouraging and/ or permitting this new push for examination as an opening to let some revelations long hidden by them to surface...

 8)

seeker
Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: starwarp2000 on January 02, 2012, 07:33:00 pm

They also have the huge .cub files but that requires a Linux system and a special viewing program and as the files are 1 to 2 gigabytes in size, viewing the original images will be hard on a normal PC

I looked into those files Zorgs. (.cub)
You can also use a Solaris machine (Unix) to view those files. Since I have a laptop with Solaris 10 installed i have been experimenting with ways to convert those pics to PC type files (.jpg/.bmp).
[Yes! I downloaded one of those humungous 1.2 GB files  :o]
(.cub) is actually a 3D format, that is used in this instance, with a gray scale height field map. Will get back to you when I make a breakthrough on that!
Quote

The thread at ATS quickly turned into a derailment by the usual skeptics, even Phage, attacking the scientists to draw attention away from the concept.

Phage still at it? LOL I shut him up once by accusing him of being MI6  ;D
Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: zorgon on January 04, 2012, 11:37:51 pm
I looked into those files Zorgs. (.cub)

There is also ISIS (Appropriate name what? :D )

ISIS Integrated Software for Imagers and Spectrometers

This is the home page for Isis, an image processing software package. The focus of the software is to manipulate imagery collected by current and past NASA planetary missions sent to Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, and other solar system bodies.
http://isis.astrogeology.usgs.gov/


Quote
I am looking to convert .cub files to a format such as jpg so that I can view them in windows.
Or, a windows viewer that will handle .cub files.
https://isis.astrogeology.usgs.gov/IsisSupport/index.php?topic=2304.0

GDAL Conversion Tips
https://isis.astrogeology.usgs.gov/IsisSupport/index.php?PHPSESSID=7vv04oahr8q3hs0n23ah5fnl11&/topic,2172.0.html
Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: zorgon on January 05, 2012, 12:19:09 am
Letter to ASU

Greetings Dr Davies.

I am contacting you on behalf of our group in regards to this article;
We should scour the moon for ancient traces of aliens, say scientists (http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2011/dec/25/scour-moon-ancient-traces-aliens?CMP=twt_fd)

Looking for anomalies on the Moon and on Mars is something our group has been doing for many years. When we saw the announcement that you are seriously considering having amateurs look for such items to see if there might be any Alien artifacts on the Moon... well all I can say is we were stunned. For decades those of us that have looked seriously have been ridiculed and called nut cases. Despite that we have continued to look, mostly because it is interesting and fun.

There are images that one can clearly put down to pareidolia, some are most likely odd rock formations, but some are just too odd and interesting to brush off.  If you are indeed serious about this we would love the opportunity to participate, as we are already doing it anyway. And we have already had interaction with ASU, indirectly. The first time was when Mark Robinson moved from North Western University to ASU. Someone linked us to the Color Clementine images before they were moved and a few weeks before USGS released their 'Map-a-Planet' site. At the time we were posting on ATS and created a popular thread on those images
 
Revealed for the First Time Color Images of the Moon from Clementine Satellite (http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread237436/pg1)

Patricia Garcia of USGS even wrote a thank you to me for making the opening day such a success by the number of hits we generated.

The second time was when one of my team put in a request for LRO to look at the Tsiolkovsky Crater region.. particularly the lobate land mass that appeared to be recent movement.  Yes we were seeking signs of activity, as in perhaps mining operations, but we put the request in for 'geological reasons'... looking for disturbed and/or moving rocks. The LRO did shoot that area about a week later and we found many moving rocks in the area...  ;D

It is our belief that there are things going on on the Moon, whether secret operations, alien artifacts or something else. Since all we have to work with is NASA images, and most of our systems being window based, it does limit us in the search.

I imagine also that an announcement like this will likely swamp you with people sending stuff they think is important. But we are serious and very interested. Our forum is located at http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php. We have areas set up to be more private to avoid the trolls. If you could stop by and say hi, it would be greatly appreciated. We really would like to know more about what triggered this request. Understand that after years of ridicule, we find this idea coming from ASU a little bit of a shock, though a most welcome one.

No matter what we may or may not find, the search is important to us.

I would like to start off with one picture in particular, one that has even some hard core skeptics baffled and is easy to spot in the original without enhancements

The original image from Apollo
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a11/AS11-41-6156HR.jpg

The object
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/04images/Moon9/AS11_41_6156/Structure01B.png

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/04images/Moon9/AS11_41_6156/Structure01A.png

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/04images/Moon9/AS11_41_6156/Structure02a.png

The Location
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/04images/Moon9/AS11_41_6156/AS11-41-6156_Circled-Area.JPG

We would love to have a look at that crater with LRO

We have others but I will start with that one to see how we fare with this project. We naturally hope you are serious, and in reality you have little to lose except a bit of time looking over our finds. We will do the best we can to screen our best case finds. There were a lot in the old Lunar Orbiter series, despite the fact that those photos also had a lot of processing errors, and we have found some odd things in a few LRO images as well

We look forward to working with you on this project

Sincerely

Ron Schmidt

Pegasus Research Consortium
Las Vegas Nevada
Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: Pimander on January 05, 2012, 03:11:40 am
Right, we just need a bit of media coverage of this now....  Can you imagine the headlines?

Lunatics in League with NASA in Search for Alien Moon Base

 8)
Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: Linda Brown on January 05, 2012, 11:46:35 am
Perhaps I have missed the discussions somewhere else here ( I admit to being away from the keys) but on a Forum like this.... why haven't you mentioned the current project   GRAIL?

Linda
Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: zorgon on January 06, 2012, 06:53:03 pm
why haven't you mentioned the current project   GRAIL?
Linda

Time :D

GRAIL is a gravity mission and I was planning to include it in the gravity thread I haven't had time for yet. I actually forgot it already launched :D

Makes you wonder how NASA made it to the Moon if they just now are sending a craft to study Lunar Gravity :P
Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: sky otter on January 06, 2012, 07:22:51 pm
ok..turned on the computer and this is front and center...this is getting to be way more than vindication..starting to smell just a bit fishy to me


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yb10Cpx27w0&feature=player_embedded#![/youtube]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45901428

Giant moon crater revealed in spectacular up-close photos
NASA satellite takes pictures from only 16.2 miles above the surface of Aristarchus


By Space.com Staff
 
updated 1/6/2012 12:32:35 PM ET 2012-01-06T17:32:35
Spectacular new images of a gigantic crater on the moon were captured recently by a low-skimming NASA satellite.

In November 2011, the space agency's Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter spacecraft passed over the moon's Aristarchus crater, which spans 25 miles (40 kilometers) and sinks more than 2 miles (3.5 kilometers) deep. Photos and video of the crater from LRO's
http://www.space.com/10013-lro-team-spirit-joanne-baker.html
 sweep were released Dec. 25.
http://www.space.com/14124-giant-moon-crater-aristarchus-lro-photos.html


The huge and highly reflective Aristarchus is easily visible with the naked eye.
http://www.space.com/13485-moon-skywatching-craters-apollo-landing-sites.html
 But the details shown in the new photos are a special treat from an extremely low flyover by LRO.

"The spacecraft was only 26 km (16.2 miles) above the surface; about two times lower than normal," Mark Robinson, principal investigator of the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter Camera at Arizona State University, wrote in a NASA post.

"For a sense of scale, that altitude is only a little over twice as high as commercial jets fly above the Earth!"

The spot offers some fantastic, and scientifically interesting, scenery.

"The Aristarchus plateau is one of the most geologically diverse places on the moon: a mysterious raised flat plateau, a giant rille carved by enormous outpourings of lava, fields of explosive volcanic ash, and all surrounded by massive flood basalts," Robinson wrote.
Scientists think the crater was created relatively recently, geologically speaking, when a comet or asteroid smashed into the moon, gouging out a hole in its surface.

NASA launched the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter in 2009 on a $504 million mission to map the moon in unprecedented detail.

The spacecraft is about the size of a Mini Cooper car and carries seven instruments to study the lunar surface.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/?id=11881780&q=Arizona%20State%20University

links to these at site
•Latest Moon Photos from NASA's Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter
•Moon's Aristarchus Crater Snapped In Amazing Detail
•20 Most Marvelous Moon Missions




 .....hey Z..ya need an emoticon with a guy scratchin his head..

 ::)
Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: Sgt.Rocknroll on January 07, 2012, 05:56:45 am
ok..turned on the computer and this is front and center...this is getting to be way more than vindication..starting to smell just a bit fishy to me




Yeah it does seem to be a bit much in such great clarity. Something is going on and I'm not sure what! I expect a lot more being dumped on us real soon. Too good to be true... ???
Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: Pimander on January 07, 2012, 06:24:03 am
Makes you wonder how NASA made it to the Moon if they just now are sending a craft to study Lunar Gravity :P
Along with the LRO, this is the type of data you would expect them to gather in preparation for a visit to another heavenly body.

Now they just have to work out how to cope with the radiation levels....
Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: ArMaP on January 07, 2012, 11:07:06 am
There is also ISIS (Appropriate name what? :D )
That's the one I use. :)

It's really a large (I think it's more than 100) group of small programs for specific tasks, one of those is turning the images in standard image formats (IMG2STD) , for example, or making the mosaics with several smaller photos.

PS: they call them Cube files because they are (may be) composed of several different data layers, so it's not a "flat" file. The most common case is the one of the photos from several different channels, all grouped together in just one Cub file, like the Clementine colour images.
Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: zorgon on January 07, 2012, 04:53:27 pm
.....hey Z..ya need an emoticon with a guy scratchin his head..

I have one :D but I have not yet added smilie sets to the forum

I think I will post a thread in the Rules area just for smilies then people can cut and paste them

Like this

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/04images/Bluebird/greenstars.gif)

Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: zorgon on January 07, 2012, 04:59:17 pm
In my experience, if it sounds too good to be true it probably is. I can't see them giving up any pictures that are of any significance IMO. What would be the reason to allow this now?

Ah darn  always a party pooper in the room :P

But yeah, seems you are right :(

From: Carol Hughes
Subject: RE: We should scour the moon for ancient traces of aliens, say scientists

Mr. Schmidt,

You had copied me on your email to Prof. Davies, who sent the response below and asked if I would forward it to you, along with a copy of the paper, which is attached.

Best,
Carol Hughes
Public Relations

FROM PROF. DAVIES:

Thank you for your interest in our paper (attached). If you read the paper, rather than the news commentary, I think you will see that what we are hypothesizing is very different from what you suggest. First, we think there is no evidence at this time of any life beyond Earth, let alone intelligent life. My own position was argued in detail in my book The Eerie Silence. However, if we take the optimistic view that there are at least some planets in our galaxy on which intelligent life may have arisen, the possibility of alien technology in the solar system arises. We have in mind a probe, or a robotic mission. Given that the solar system is only 4.5 billion years old, whereas the galaxy is 13 billion years old, the probability per unit time of such a “visitation” is roughly constant over the lifetime of the Earth. Therefore, the expected time for a probe to arrive is about 2 billion years ago. In our paper we make the more optimistic assumption that a “visitation” might occur 100 million years ago. The probability of aliens, or probes, arriving during the time of human habitation on Earth is infinitesimally small. Therefore, we are most certainly not claiming that there are aliens living on the moon (or Mars) at this time, only that some trace of a “visitation” up to 100 million years old might survive in lunar conditions. They would not survive in Martian conditions due to weathering. Even so, we consider that any visitation of any sort is exceedingly unlikely. Our interest is in whether it is detectable, and how this fascinating idea may be used as an educational tool to interest young people in science.

We have not arranged any systematic search of the LRO database; it is our intention to let an organization like the SETI Institute take the lead on that, so I am simply not in a position to accept your kind offer of assistance, to evaluate the photographs you have already assembled. I hope this brief reply is helpful to you.

With regards,

Paul Davies

Well that's that then... though I will contact SETI and see what they say... and if they will have access to the LRO database as the Prof. says.

I will upload the paper shortly... at least it was a free copy :D
Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: sky otter on January 07, 2012, 05:25:16 pm
ah see me kickin the can down the street

....grumble.... grumble ....grumble

first he uses the royal WE..grrrrrrrr..then talks as though he really knows what is  where
now how could that be???????..
just how could he know these things
ahhhhhhhhhhh  maybe he's psychic...
yep that's it..he's psychic

time to just quit Z..this guy has all the info and says no use in looking(http://i45.servimg.com/u/f45/13/55/53/83/2468810.gif)

  i'm beginning to wonder about  that arizona universe now... ::) :o



.................

had to come back after finding this..did you know about it?
some daze i feel so slow...




LRO First Light images of the Moon!
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/07/02/lro-first-light-images-of-the-moon/
[Update: Ken Bowley on Facebook clued me in that the LRO camera has a page where you can see the raw images, and zoom in -- WAY in -- on the image strips. They have 73 cm resolution, folks. Yikes.]

The Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter has returned its first images from the Moon! Woohoo!

Check. It. Out!


(http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/365431main_nacl000000fd_top_detail.jpg)

Whoaaaa.

This image, taken in the Mare Nubium region of the Moon, shows a heavily cratered area. The scale here is amazing: the whole image is 1400 meters across, or just under a mile. That’s like looking out your airplane window… if you were over the frakking Moon! Even in this compressed image (click to embiggen) features just a few meters across are distinguishable. See that perfectly circular crater just to the right and a tad below the middle of the picture? It’s about 60 meters across, just a bit bigger than two tennis courts end-to-end. It would easily fit in a football stadium.

Holy Haleakala.

It’s a little difficult to interpret the image; for example, near the bottom in the middle I thought for a moment I saw a crater chain. I don’t think that’s real; our eyes tend to pick out linear features even when they aren’t there. Too bad, because that would be cool; crater chains form when an asteroid or comet breaks up before it hits, and we do see them on pretty much every cratered object in the solar system. You can also get them near a larger impact, when junk ejected from the crater splashes out and lands nearby.

I guarantee we’ll see lots of such chains as LRO snaps more pictures. Awesome.

Check this one too:

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/LRO/multimedia/lroimages/lroc_20090702_a.html
Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: ArMaP on January 07, 2012, 06:16:47 pm
had to come back after finding this..did you know about it?
some daze i feel so slow...
About what, the availability of all the images at resolutions like that?

Now I'm confused.

PS: where's a confused smiley?
Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: sky otter on January 07, 2012, 06:47:54 pm
About what, the availability of all the images at resolutions like that?


well either, really... :-\

and if you want a smilie ya gotta import... ;D

Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: The Seeker on January 08, 2012, 07:19:08 am
Otter, there are some very interesting images towards the bottom left in that strip; one almost looks like a spoked wheel with a tail ;D
gonna have to get some new software so I can work on these...
so quit kicking the can and keep looking


seeker
Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: Somamech on January 08, 2012, 07:50:39 am
Drats!  at the same time The Professors reply was quite interesting in that they are keeping an open mind to aliens visiting the area and that it is not a total waste of time looking for evidence. 

In the meantime though its lucky we got the Lunamatti here Keeping an eye on things (http://i20.servimg.com/u/f20/14/10/80/81/2010.gif)

 ;D
Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: Pimander on January 08, 2012, 11:32:41 am
Now I'm confused.

PS: where's a confused smiley?
I like this one, but you can't see his arms properly with this background. (http://serve.mysmiley.net/confused/confused0024.gif)

There's a choice here. http://www.mysmiley.net/free-confused-smileys.php

I think we need some different standard smileys for this forum....

On the response from Davies, some of what he is saying is based on pure assumption and there are scientific reasons for taking an entirely different view.  Irritatingly, he also ignored the evidence that suggests probes have visited Earth in our lifetimes already.

When I have time I may pull what he says apart (in fact I have started building a thread but got side-tracked) when I have more time.  Right now I'm annoyed and not in the mood for it!

Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: Somamech on January 08, 2012, 11:53:02 am
Pim I see what you are saying 110% in regards to the scientific explanation... it IS ludicrous but at the same time he left a hook and even bothered to reply to Zorgon  ;)

I also hold the possibility that Davies wrote what he did to be as kind as possible to folks who don't buy "the earthlings in an abandoned universe theory".  He even may buy that theory...but something in his text suggest that he is looking whilst keeping a clean academic record along with  personal doubt due to his position. 

Maybe I should change my name to somagloss   :o


 
Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: Pimander on January 08, 2012, 12:00:28 pm
I must admit, I keep my interest in all of this completely off the record in my professional life.  Some people don't like it and think I'm not standing up for the cause.  However, aside from in the workplace, if a political opponent got hold of this, it could get awkward.  :o
Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: ArMaP on January 08, 2012, 05:04:13 pm
well either, really... :-\
Then you are not paying attention. :)

I have started a database for each mission that has images on the Planetary Data System, and my only two missions (at the time) are Clementine (that is a closed mission, with no expected updates) and LROC, with many updates still to come.

The Clementine database has 1,900,483 photos (no, zorgon, that's not a mistake), most at something like 100 metres per pixel, the LROC database  has 503,207 images, most at 60 cm per pixel.
Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: Pimander on January 08, 2012, 05:17:22 pm
The Clementine database has 1,900,483 photos (no, zorgon, that's not a mistake), most at something like 100 metres per pixel, the LROC database  has 503,207 images, most at 60 cm per pixel.
:o
That's a lot of data!  How much server space do you need for the clementine images?
Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: starwarp2000 on January 08, 2012, 05:42:31 pm
:o
That's a lot of data!  How much server space do you need for the clementine images?

At 1-2 Gigs each, anywhere between 1900 Terabytes and 3800 Terabytes.  :o
Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: sky otter on January 08, 2012, 06:42:20 pm
 :P

Then you are not paying attention

ok guys don't kick me off while i go off topic to reply to this..pleaseeeeeeeeeee

ArMap
first off i do not have sufficient computer  tech-i-ness to  save / move  / capture / enlarge or otherwise  play with any of these shots from space......i am totally limited to viewing whatever in the hell someone else posts..be it nasa or you guys..
i have not been to the other so-called conspiracy forums but came here thur biggs and  a few conversations with Z at a more peaceful place
that is just a clarification fyi

i am not worried about proving this stuff.. because basically..what the f is the point  ?
we know the gov(s)  are a lying bunch of slaves to others so what else could you expect
but in your face teasing of what is
i am also not interested in any ego fights..i know who i am and so far am not interested in any other opinion of me..but i will clarify my point or opinion as nicely as possible just so you know who i am too... ;)

i do a enjoy a good search and that is where i mostly stay..in the searching...i really am good at research even without a computer system.. :D
what i have found here (this forum) is a bunch of intellegent folk with a self appointed task of diggin up  as much as they can...and sharing it
so far they have allowed me to play in their sand box..i thank them and i hope to find some crumbs now and again just for the joy of it and hopefully also a contribution

so just to sum up..don't let the little old lady tag fool you...it's only the current meat suit
hahahahahahahah

 8)
Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: ArMaP on January 08, 2012, 06:45:29 pm
At 1-2 Gigs each, anywhere between 1900 Terabytes and 3800 Terabytes.  :o
That's the size of the CUB mosaics made with the raw photos (the 1,900,483 photos), Clementine photos (from the Ultraviolet/Visible camera) were only 288 × 384 pixels.

All those photos are compiled into 88 CDs, available here (http://pds-imaging.jpl.nasa.gov/Admin/resources/cd_clementine.html).
Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: ArMaP on January 08, 2012, 06:55:17 pm
ArMap
first off i do not have sufficient computer  tech-i-ness to  save / move  / capture / enlarge or otherwise  play with any of these shots from space......i am totally limited to viewing whatever in the hell someone else posts..be it nasa or you guys..
There's no need for any special tech-i-ness, you just have to follow what NASA (or the ASU, in this case) says, they have been publishing the images and the data about the images ever since they started getting them.

Quote
so just to sum up..don't let the little old lady tag fool you...it's only the current meat suit
hahahahahahahah

 8)
What "little old lady tag"? (http://serve.mysmiley.net/confused/confused0039.gif)
(I have to make some smileys to use here :))
Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: Pimander on January 08, 2012, 07:26:29 pm
That's the size of the CUB mosaics made with the raw photos (the 1,900,483 photos), Clementine photos (from the Ultraviolet/Visible camera) were only 288 × 384 pixels.

All those photos are compiled into 88 CDs, available here (http://pds-imaging.jpl.nasa.gov/Admin/resources/cd_clementine.html).
It's a mind boggling amount of information/data.

It brings home how important it is to make sure you know what you want to look at and why.  I just caught myself browsing around just then after following your link.  I could spend the rest of my life looking at pictures without any real sense of purpose.  Back to trying to follow the clues...  (http://smileys.smilchat.net/smiley/famous/sherlock2.gif)
Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: zorgon on January 09, 2012, 03:44:51 am
ONLY 88 cd's?   :o   LOL

So what we need is a free copy for the archives :D

My server tells me we have unlimited space but I thing 1800 terabytes would be pushing it :P

Well I need sleep  but I will leave this one as food for thought. Will post it in Mars anomalies tomorrow :D

(http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/p/1402/2P250825588EFFAW9DP2432R1M1.JPG)

FULL SIZE (http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/p/1402/2P250825588EFFAW9DP2432R1M1.JPG)
Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: Pimander on January 09, 2012, 11:00:58 am
ONLY 88 cd's?   :o   LOL

So what we need is a free copy for the archives :D

My server tells me we have unlimited space but I thing 1800 terabytes would be pushing it :P
Great minds think alike LOL.

I was thinking almost exactly the same.  When is unlimited not unlimited?  I have a feeling that might be pushing it though....
Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: ArMaP on January 09, 2012, 05:06:21 pm
ONLY 88 cd's?   :o   LOL
From those I have already downloaded 36, but I forgot about it for a long time. :D

Quote
My server tells me we have unlimited space but I thing 1800 terabytes would be pushing it :P
That would be almost 2 petabytes, so I guess you would need something like the Petabox (http://www.archive.org/web/petabox.php). :)


Quote
(http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/p/1402/2P250825588EFFAW9DP2432R1M1.JPG)
I remember that photo.
Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: Pimander on January 10, 2012, 11:14:55 am
I think ArMap should go through every LROC and Clementine image for us and post just the ones with anomalies.

You'd better get moving with this project mate - it should take you 192.6 years (I've given you a generous 10 minutes per image assuming you work 8 hours per day, 5 days per week without holidays.)

Alternatively it would take a team of 193 ArMaps less than 1 year?  What do you say ArMap?  Have you started yet?
Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: ArMaP on January 10, 2012, 05:41:36 pm
I think ArMap should go through every LROC and Clementine image for us and post just the ones with anomalies.
First you need to tell me what do you consider an anomaly. If it's a strange rock then I guess I can post them all. :)

Quote
You'd better get moving with this project mate - it should take you 192.6 years (I've given you a generous 10 minutes per image assuming you work 8 hours per day, 5 days per week without holidays.)
You forgot that LROC images are still being produced, so we cannot know how many they will be.

Quote
Alternatively it would take a team of 193 ArMaps less than 1 year?  What do you say ArMap?  Have you started yet?
No, I let the other 192 ArMaPs (it's a capital 'P') do the work, I'm just organising things. :D
Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: Pimander on January 10, 2012, 07:31:38 pm
First you need to tell me what do you consider an anomaly. If it's a strange rock then I guess I can post them all. :)
Anything that is aberrant, aberrated, abnormal, exceptional, atypical, extraordinary, freaky, odd, peculiar, phenomenal, preternatural, unique or unusual.  I think you are going to need a team and there needs to be 2 people agree on it being anomalous to pass the Pegasus test.

You forgot that LROC images are still being produced, so we cannot know how many they will be.
Good point.  This could be an expensive project.  You're going to need well over 300 staff to do this and you don't even know how long you'll need them.  We need to siphon some of the NASA budget.  Do you think the big bosses will agree this is a sensible use of resources and in line with government policy?

No, I let the other 192 ArMaPs (it's a capital 'P') do the work, I'm just organising things. :D
I think I should help you out....  I'll manage the financial side of the project.  Just as a special favour to you, of course.  I've never managed a budget as big as that one would be.
Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: zorgon on February 11, 2012, 04:34:16 am
First you need to tell me what do you consider an anomaly. If it's a strange rock then I guess I can post them all. :)

Anything YOU consider an anomaly would be a WHOPPER :D

Quote
You forgot that LROC images are still being produced, so we cannot know how many they will be.

Ah yes and we must not forget that we can request an area to be photographed... as long as we have a good reason to look :D

Now in regards to this thread, seeing as the LRROC guy told us no, that they decided to let SETI do it, don't you all think we should make an effort to contact SETI and see if we can get in on it with them?  We have a couple really good images to send them to show we are serious.

Seems to me this would be the way to continue.

SETI already has a program....

Towards Lunar Archaeology
Dr. Alexey V. Arkhipov
Institute of Radio Astronomy, Nat. Acad. Sci. of Ukraine


Quote
Excerpt

Our Moon is a potential indicator of a possible alien presence near the Earth at some time during the past 4 billion years. To ascertain the presence of alien artifacts, a survey for ruinlike formations on the Moon has been carried out as a precursor to lunar archaeology.

Computer algorithms for semi-automatic, archaeological photo-reconnaissance are discussed. About 80,000 Clementine lunar orbital images have been processed, and a number of quasirectangular patterns found. Morphological analysis of these patterns leads to possible reconstructions of their evolution in terms of erosion. Two scenarios are considered: 1) the collapse of subsurface quasi-rectangular systems of caverns, and 2) the erosion of hills with quasi-rectangular lattices of lineaments. We also note the presence of embankment-like,
quadrangular, hollow hills with rectangular depressions nearby.. Tectonic (geologic) interpretations of these features are considered. The similarity of these patterns to terrestrial archaeological sites and proposed lunar base concepts suggest the need for further study and future in situ exploration.

"There are times when a scientist must not be afraid to make a fool of himself"
 - Arthur C. Clarke


Quote
Today, the idea of exploring the Moon for non-human artifacts is not a popular one among selenologists. Unfortunately, the detection of ET artifacts on the Moon is outside the interest of most selenologists due to their orientation towards natural formations and processes. It is also not of interest to mainstream archaeologists, as archaeology tends to adhere to a pre-Copernican geocentric point-of-view.

SOURCE: The Society for Planetary SETI Research (SPSR) (http://spsr.utsi.edu/articles/Saam/SAAM.HTM)

SOURCE: New Frontiers in Science, Vol. 1 No. 2, Winter 2002 PDF  (http://www.thelivingmoon.com/91_PDF_Database/Lunar%20Mining/Lunar_Archeology_SETI_Search.pdf)


SETI
On Lunar Archeology


Quote
In 1992, the Search for Alien Artifacts on the Moon (SAAM) — the first privately-organized archaeological reconnaissance of the Moon — was initiated. The justifications of lunar SETI, the wording of specific principles of lunar archaeology, and the search for promising areas on the Moon were the first stage of the project (1992-95). Preliminary results of lunar exploration6 show that the search for alien artifacts on the Moon is a promising SETI strategy, especially in the context of lunar colonization plans.

Additional reading:

Arkhipov, A.V. “Earth-Moon System as a Collector of Alien Artefacts”, J. Brit. Interplanet. Soc., 1998, 51,181-184.
Arkhipov, A.V., and Graham, F.G. “Lunar SETI: A Justification”, in The Search for Extraterrestrial
Intelligence (SETI) in the Optical Spectrum II, ed. S.A. Kingsley ? G.A. Lemarchand, SPIE Proceedings, Vol.2704, SPIE, Washington, 150-154, 1996.
Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: zorgon on February 11, 2012, 04:36:17 am
So based on that, the original article from LROC and the reply we got... we should make a presentation to that department of SETI and see where it leads us.

Anyone up to putting it together?
Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: zorgon on February 11, 2012, 04:42:28 am
Some examples from their documents

Khorezmian Fortress Koy-Krylgan-Kala

This was a dig site on Earth... before and after. It was thought to be a crater, but was in fact an old fortress

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/04images/SETI/Khorezmian_Fortress.png)
Fig. 1 The ancient Khorezmian fortress Koy-Krylgan-kala appeared as an impact crater on the air photo (left); its artificiality is obvious after the excavations in 1956 (right) [6].

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/04images/SETI/Assyrian_Ruins.png)
The air view of the Ancient Assyrian ruins of Assur resemble the lunar lattice in Fig. 6.

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/04images/SETI/Wafer_Find.png)
Fig. 5 The example of a wafer find (image LHD5472Q.287)

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/04images/SETI/Wafer_Enhanced.png)
Fig. 2 Simulation of probable HIRES view of ancient settlement on the Moon (left). The erosion wipes off the surface tracks of construction (center), but the SAAM processing could reveal the rectangular anomaly (right).

Quote
Alexey V. Arkhipov is a researcher at the Institute of Radio Astronomy, National Academy of Sciences of the Ukraine, and an Assistant professor at National Kharkov University. He has a Ph.D. in astrophysics and radio astronomy (Main Astronomical Observatory at the National Academy of Sciences of the Ukraine, Kyiv, 1998). The title of his dissertation was "New approaches to the problem of search for extra-terrestrial intelligence." Dr. Arkhipov's research involves the study of decametric radio emissions of Jupiter and non-classical approaches to SETI (e.g. archaeological reconnaissance of the Moon). He is the author of Selenites (http://www.setileague.org/articles/selenite.htm) and more than 100 technical and scientific articles. Dr. Arkhipov is the SETI League's Volunteer Coordinator for the Ukraine. He is a member of the SETI Center (Moscow), the Society for Planetary SETI Research (SPSR), and the SETI section of the Council on Astronomy of the Russian Academy ofSciences. His curriculum vitae can be found at http://www.setileague.org/admin/alexey.htm

So we have all the contact info we need to get this underway. And I have seen much better examples of lattice work in some of those pictures that John posted over the years.

Its time to step this up to the next level.
Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: zorgon on February 11, 2012, 04:53:31 am
This next example is on Mars, but I figured it was really important to add to this thread. NASA labeled this area Inca City... for a very good reason

Mars Global Surveyor
"INCA CITY"
MOC wide-angle image E09-00186


(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/04images/SETI/E0900186.gif)
Images Credit: NASA/JPL/Malin Space Science Systems

Malin Space Systems: E09-00186.gif (http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/e07_e12/full_gif_non_map/E09/E0900186.gif)

In this image you can see that the 'Inca City' appears to be buried in sand. From this view you can make out the circular pattern. The 'circular wall' in the upper left continues across gullies and rises. It would be interesting to dig at this location.

"Inca City" is Part of a Circular Feature
MGS MOC Release No. MOC2-319, 8 August 2002


(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/04images/SETI/E09-00186_annot1.gif)
Images Credit: NASA/JPL/Malin Space Science Systems

Malin Space Systems (http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/8_2002_releases/incacity/)

Quote
"Inca City" is the informal name given by Mariner 9 scientists in 1972 to a set of intersecting, rectilinear ridges that are located among the layered materials of the south polar region of Mars. Their origin has never been understood; most investigators thought they might be sand dunes, either modern dunes or, more likely, dunes that were buried, hardened, then exhumed. Others considered them to be dikes formed by injection of molten rock (magma) or soft sediment into subsurface cracks that subsequently hardened and then were exposed at the surface by wind erosion.

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/04images/SETI/E09-00186_annot2.gif)
Images Credit: NASA/JPL/Malin Space Science Systems

Quote
The Mars Global Surveyor (MGS) Mars Orbiter Camera (MOC) has provided new information about the "Inca City" ridges, though the camera's images still do not solve the mystery. The new information comes in the form of a MOC red wide angle context frame taken in mid-southern spring, shown above left and above right. The original Mariner 9 view of the ridges is seen at the center. The MOC image shows that the "Inca City" ridges, located at 82?S, 67?W, are part of a larger circular structure that is about 86 km (53 mi) across. It is possible that this pattern reflects an origin related to an ancient, eroded meteor impact crater that was filled-in, buried, then partially exhumed. In this case, the ridges might be the remains of filled-in fractures in the bedrock into which the crater formed, or filled-in cracks within the material that filled the crater. Or both explanations could be wrong. While the new MOC image shows that "Inca City" has a larger context as part of a circular form, it does not reveal the exact origin of these striking and unusual martian landforms.

Mariner 9
"INCA CITY"


(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/04images/SETI/mr9_inca_city.jpg)
Images Credit: NASA/JPL/Malin Space Science Systems

NASA Frame Number 4212-15 (http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/thumbnail/planetary/mars/mr9_inca_city.gif)

Quote
Mariner 9 image of the "Inca City". During the Mariner 9 mission, scientists found an unusual rectilinear structure associated with the south polar pitted terrain which they dubbed the "Inca City". Located near -80 degrees latitude and 64 degrees longitude, it is likely the result of wind deflation of deposits from underlying rough terrain. The "cells" in the image are about 4-5 kilometers in width.

Viking 2
"INCA CITY"


(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/04images/SETI/f225b69_700.gif)
Images Credit: NASA/JPL/Malin Space Science Systems

NASA Frame number F225B69 (http://ftp://nssdcftp.gsfc.nasa.gov/photo_gallery/hi-res/planetary/mars/f225b69.tiff)

Viking 2 image of the region around the "Inca City". Viking 2 also imaged the region, but no evidence of the feature was visible in this image from orbit 225. It has been enhanced to bring out the details (noise reduced and contrast enhanced). The resolution of the original image is 0.544 km/pixel and is centered at -81.56 degrees latitude and 69.82 degrees longitude. Reproduced from volume 55 of the Mission to Mars: Viking Orbiter Images of Mars CD-ROM set.

Viking 2
"INCA CITY"


(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/04images/SETI/f421b64_700.png)
Images Credit: NASA/JPL/Malin Space Science Systems

NASA Frame number F421B64 (http://ftp://nssdcftp.gsfc.nasa.gov/photo_gallery/hi-res/planetary/mars/f421b64.tiff)

Quote
Viking 2 image of the region around the "Inca City". On a later orbit (421), Viking 2 again imaged the region. This time, the Inca City is clearly visible. This image was taken through the red filter. It has been enhanced to bring out the details (noise reduced and contrast enhanced). The resolution of this image is 0.146 km/pixel and is centered at -81.82 degrees latitude and 59.59 degrees longitude. Reproduced from volume 59 of the Mission to Mars: Viking Orbiter Images of Mars CD-ROM set.
Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: zorgon on February 11, 2012, 05:06:43 am
Archaeological sites on Earth from above

Here is a photo of Ur in Iraq for comparrison  Some areas are still not uncovered

(http://www.penn.museum/sites/iraq/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/ES_8_139540-aerial-view.jpg)
Aerial photograph taken March 12, 1930, showing the excavations of the Royal Cemetery. The finger-like projections are dumps of excavated soil.

Finding the Cemetery (http://www.penn.museum/sites/iraq/?page_id=40)

(http://www.genesisfiles.com/Images/UrAerial.jpg)
Aerial view of the Nanna complex at Ur (Tell al Mugayyar). Image Source (http://www.genesisfiles.com/Images/UrAerial.jpg)

Here you can see UR from google Earth... clearly shows the dug areas and the still covered lattices

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/42stargate/04images/Iraq/UR_004.png)

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/42stargate/04images/Iraq/UR_001.png)

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/42stargate/04images/Iraq/UR_003.png)

Ziggurat of UR - Pegasus Page (http://www.thelivingmoon.com/42stargate/03files/Ziggurat_of_Ur.html)
Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: zorgon on February 11, 2012, 05:11:41 am
Mars Orbiter Camera (MOC) High Resolution Images:
Rectilinear Ridges In South Polar Layered Terrain ("Inca City")
March 13, 1998


(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/04images/SETI/fig5_cntxA.gif)
Image Credit: Malin Space Systems/NASA

Mars Orbiter Camera (MOC) High Resolution Images:
Rectilinear Ridges In South Polar Layered Terrain ("Inca City")
(http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mgs/msss/camera/images/science_paper/f5/)

Quote
(A) Portion of Viking Orbiter 2 image 421B64, reproduced here (click on icon) at full resolution of about 179 meters (585 feet) per picture element. The outlines of (B) is shown. North is up, sun illumination is from the top.

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/04images/SETI/fig5_cntxB.gif)
Image Credit: Malin Space Systems/NASA

Quote
(B) Highest-resolution pre-Mars Global Surveyor view. Image is a portion of Mariner 9 DAS #8044333. Click on the small view above to see the image at full spatial resolution of approximately 100 meters (327 feet) per pixel. White box indicates location of MOC image (C). North is approximately "up", sun illumination is from top/upper right.

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/04images/SETI/fig5_7908.gif)
Image Credit: Malin Space Systems/NASA

Quote
(C) Subframe of MOC image 7908 reproduced at full resolution, about 23 meters/pixel (75 feet/pixel). Picture shows an area approximately 20 x 14 km (12.4 x 8.7 miles) in size. Sun illumination is from upper left.

This set of rectilinear, intersecting ridges was first seen in images taken by Mariner 9 in 1972 (see context frame B). The superficial resemblance to ancient ruins led to their informal name, "Inca City". As 1997 turned to 1998, MOC obtained this stunning high-resolution view during the 79th orbit of Mars Global Surveyor. The subframe depicted here is centered on 81.54?S latitude, 64.28?W longitude.

Except for the small dark dots, everything in this image is covered by a moderately thin (probably less than a meter) layer of seasonal, CO2 frost.

CREDIT: Malin Space Systems/NASA Paper (http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mgs/msss/camera/images/science_paper/f5/)
Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: thorfourwinds on May 28, 2012, 12:01:15 pm
So based on that, the original article from LROC and the reply we got... we should make a presentation to that department of SETI and see where it leads us.

Anyone up to putting it together?

Greetings:

How may we be of assistance?

We be graphic designers, among other things...

tfw
Title: Re: VINDICATION!!!
Post by: zorgon on May 29, 2012, 01:44:09 am
How may we be of assistance?

Since the LRO scientists told us that they decided to let SETI do it instead of us 'amateurs' , the next step would be finding out which group at SETI got that 'job'  Then we can contact them and see if we can get in on it.

I was planning to do that earlier but got sidetracked. I can ask the LRO team for a contact name and number or I can try to find a professor who has already done work like this (He is posted in the work above if I recall)

That would be the next step   8)

If they blow us off like the LRO guys did, then we know that the idea was not a serious request