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Author Topic: Cowspiracy Documentary & Future Foods  (Read 13532 times)

Offline zorgon

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Re: Cowspiracy Documentary & Future Foods
« Reply #45 on: October 27, 2015, 11:31:55 am »
BULL SHIT :P Literally :P

In California they just announced that they will ban Avocado growing as they require TOO MUCH WATER  Since Ca produces about 90% of the worlds Avocado's kiss your guacamole goodbye

Avocados Aren't The Only Trendy Food That May Be Endangered Because Of The Droughthttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/23/avocados-california-drought_n_7127666.html

Meanwhile on the Bundy Ranch his cows just roam the DESERT and survive just fine finding all the water they need.


I am calling "Vegan Propaganda" on this one :P

Offline rdunk

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Re: Cowspiracy Documentary & Future Foods
« Reply #46 on: October 27, 2015, 11:33:48 am »
I will try this again..............(I posted, edited the post which became 2 posts, deleted 1 of them, which then somehow deleted them both!)  >:(

The two videos I am posting here do pretty much have the answer for what needs to happen, relative to this OP. These two long-time professional men, from very different perspectives have come to very similar conclusions about what we need to do. They both present their information in a way that is effective and is easy to understand.

The conclusion for both of these is..............We need to quit the western diet, which is heavily laden with meats, and begin a diet of eating "whole plant foods"!! The results for our bodies is proof positive!! And these presentations are totally about the negatives and positives of our eating, and the why's.

These are true lecture length presentations!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6pLRdawBw0[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8V95CCw-TPA[/youtube]
« Last Edit: October 27, 2015, 12:02:05 pm by rdunk »

Offline ArMaP

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Re: Cowspiracy Documentary & Future Foods
« Reply #47 on: October 27, 2015, 01:20:21 pm »
The conclusion for both of these is..............We need to quit the western diet, which is heavily laden with meats, and begin a diet of eating "whole plant foods"!!
That depends on the meaning of "western diet" and "whole plant foods".
If by "western diet" they are talking about the main US diet then I suppose that part is correct, as, from what I have seen and read about, it's mostly wrong.
If by "whole plant foods" they mean eating only plants then I disagree, for the reasons I posted on previous posts.

Quote
These are true lecture length presentations!
And that's why I will ignore them, I don't have the time for that.

Offline zorgon

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Re: Cowspiracy Documentary & Future Foods
« Reply #48 on: October 27, 2015, 02:01:56 pm »
Since we are supposed to be a RESEARCH forum :P

We need to actually do the homework

Back in High School ( many many Moons ago :P ) in Biology class we studied proteins and amino acids

Proteins are the 'flesh builders"  Back then it was taught that the human body requires 49 different proteins to be 100% healthy. These proteins are synthesized by the body and are created from Amino acids

There are NINE Essential Amino Acids that cannot be synthesized by the body and must come from outside sources Some of those are NOT available in plant sources.

If one of the nonessential amino acids is less than needed for an individual the utilization of other amino acids will be hindered and thus protein synthesis will be less than what it usually is, even in the presence of adequate total nitrogen intake.

Protein deficiency has been shown to affect all of the body's organs and many of its systems, including the brain and brain function of infants and young children; the immune system, thus elevating risk of infection; gut mucosal function and permeability, which affects absorption and vulnerability to systemic disease; and kidney function. The physical signs of protein deficiency include edema, failure to thrive in infants and children, poor musculature, dull skin, and thin and fragile hair. Biochemical changes reflecting protein deficiency include low serum albumin and low serum transferring

In a nutshell... :P As kids are growing up they NEED proteins and amino acids from ANIMAL sources. This is even true of BOVINES ( grass eating cows :P) and that is why cows have MILK (and eat tons of bugs in the form of aphids etc on the grass they eat)

You do NOT have to kill an animal to get these essential amino acids... dairy products and eggs are enough (like the Hindu vegetarian diet)  but Vegans denying this are guilty of child abuse

Most diseases and sluggishness of the brain can be linked to the foods we eat. A Vegan diet does NOT lead to perfect humans :P 

But as I said  one does not have to kill to get the needed amino acids... but you DO need them. Plant proteins are not the same as animal proteins






Offline ArMaP

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Re: Cowspiracy Documentary & Future Foods
« Reply #49 on: October 27, 2015, 02:43:12 pm »
One big part of this problem is when people think all people around the world act in the same way.
That FAO PDF that is one of the sources for Cowspiracy says that the average meat consumption in 2003 ranged from just 5 kg per person in India to 123 kg per person in the US.
I looked at what we eat at my home and got an average of a little less than 30 kg per person per year. Since I found out that I am diabetic I changed my eating habits, but didn't reduce the amount of meat I eat, so my average consumption of meat has remained the same for several years.

Also, we only eat beef (on average) two days each month, as most of the meat we eat is chicken.

We also eat fish, but not as much as most people in Portugal.

To me, the biggest problem with the production of meat is the industrialization of the process, as the original process of raising cattle and plants on the same place was more natural, with the parts of the plants that people do not eat being consumed by the animals and the manure from the animals being used to help grow the plants, so the problem is not the production of meat, its the concentration of huge numbers of animals in just one place and the corresponding concentration of just one or two plant species in huge areas, so if we change the way food is produced we could have big gains.

Offline rdunk

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Re: Cowspiracy Documentary & Future Foods
« Reply #50 on: October 27, 2015, 07:52:23 pm »
Just for the record, the information presented in the videos I posted are not opinion based, but rather it is fact based, relative to their specific research and their many years of working with the details of diet related issues. From the standpoint of the research, it makes no difference whether eating beef or chicken protein. Seemingly no real problems if eaten in only small cumulative amounts, but with the Western diet, meats are a mainstay of meals, normally resulting in large amounts cumulative - the large amounts showing in studies to contribute to significant health issues.

Offline ArMaP

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Re: Cowspiracy Documentary & Future Foods
« Reply #51 on: October 28, 2015, 03:08:28 am »
Seemingly no real problems if eaten in only small cumulative amounts, but with the Western diet, meats are a mainstay of meals, normally resulting in large amounts cumulative - the large amounts showing in studies to contribute to significant health issues.
There's no such thing as "western diet".  :)

Edited to be more specific: as I posted above, in my home we eat around 30 kg of meat per year, while the average for Portugal is 91 and for Denmark almost 160.

Edited again to add that the 91 and 160 above were taken fro Wikipedia's List of countries by meat consumption, and it shows "per capita meat carcass mass availability", not real meat consumption.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2015, 03:52:21 am by ArMaP »

Offline zorgon

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Re: Cowspiracy Documentary & Future Foods
« Reply #52 on: October 28, 2015, 10:23:26 am »
30 KG doesn't sound like a lot over a whole year...


Offline rdunk

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Re: Cowspiracy Documentary & Future Foods
« Reply #53 on: October 28, 2015, 01:13:08 pm »
There's no such thing as "western diet".  :)

Edited to be more specific: as I posted above, in my home we eat around 30 kg of meat per year, while the average for Portugal is 91 and for Denmark almost 160.

Edited again to add that the 91 and 160 above were taken fro Wikipedia's List of countries by meat consumption, and it shows "per capita meat carcass mass availability", not real meat consumption.

Well ArMaP, if you would simply watch the videos, then you would know what a "western diet is", especially the video by T Collin Campbell, who has been involved in this subject for a long long time. He really does narrow the problem down to "meat", and makes it very clear relative to why that is so. He presents the evidence that people in countries who do not eat meat, do not suffer the health problems of people who do eat a large amount of meat.

Or, I suppose you could watch the videos, and then at least have the knowledge to debunk them, if for some reason you do take exception.   8)

Offline ArMaP

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Re: Cowspiracy Documentary & Future Foods
« Reply #54 on: October 28, 2015, 03:01:42 pm »
Well ArMaP, if you would simply watch the videos, then you would know what a "western diet is", especially the video by T Collin Campbell, who has been involved in this subject for a long long time.
Or someone that already watched the videos could tell me. ;)

Quote
He really does narrow the problem down to "meat", and makes it very clear relative to why that is so. He presents the evidence that people in countries who do not eat meat, do not suffer the health problems of people who do eat a large amount of meat.
I suppose people like the Maasai should all be dead, as they have a carnivore diet.  :)

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Or, I suppose you could watch the videos, and then at least have the knowledge to debunk them, if for some reason you do take exception.   8)
Not a chance I am going to spend more than 3 hours watching videos.

Offline Dyna

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Re: Cowspiracy Documentary & Future Foods
« Reply #55 on: October 29, 2015, 10:29:00 am »
Quote
Have you seen what a Harvester does to corn plants? 
::) well like most seeds we eat the plant reaches its end of life span before harvest. Many seed are designed to be eaten so they can be spread. :)
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Offline Dyna

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Re: Cowspiracy Documentary & Future Foods
« Reply #56 on: October 29, 2015, 10:32:22 am »
The Human body requires a certain amount of PROTEINS.  These proteins are created by the body from Amino Acids

You cannot get ALL the amino acids you need from a Vegan diet

You CAN from a vegetarian diet as they eat DAIRY products\

BTW COWS also need meat and eat several hundred pounds a year :P

Yes they do :P in the form of APHIDS and other insects on the plants they eat

 ::)

Clearly people live full and functioning lives as Vegans also. My niece who is a genius and Lawyer has never eaten an animal product since birth (she is also healthy and lovely), her sister works for the .gov in science and is the same. I know many professional people who are vegans.
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Offline Dyna

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Re: Cowspiracy Documentary & Future Foods
« Reply #57 on: October 29, 2015, 10:35:49 am »
Quote
As a meat eater, I would welcome any kind of alternative that is nutritious and tastes like meat.  However, its hard to conform to that line of thinking whenever I also feel that food should be "natural."  I don't feel right with GMO's in our crops and I would have to be thoroughly convinced that beef that is grown in a lab is not harmful.

I think you should ask if beef grown in a lab would be "less' harmful, there is no longer anything natural about most meat products people eat today.
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Offline Dyna

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Re: Cowspiracy Documentary & Future Foods
« Reply #58 on: October 29, 2015, 11:06:53 am »
Since we are supposed to be a RESEARCH forum :P

We need to actually do the homework

Back in High School ( many many Moons ago :P ) in Biology class we studied proteins and amino acids

Proteins are the 'flesh builders"  Back then it was taught that the human body requires 49 different proteins to be 100% healthy. These proteins are synthesized by the body and are created from Amino acids

There are NINE Essential Amino Acids that cannot be synthesized by the body and must come from outside sources Some of those are NOT available in plant sources.

Most diseases and sluggishness of the brain can be linked to the foods we eat. A Vegan diet does NOT lead to perfect humans :P 

But as I said  one does not have to kill to get the needed amino acids... but you DO need them. Plant proteins are not the same as animal proteins

A lot more is known today then back in our highschool days! i am being totally honest in saying I know many vegans and they were raised that way and they are exceptional people in every way, I wish i could show you!

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This should not be problematic, due to the growing number and availability of fortified vegan foods that can help children meet all nutrient needs. Therefore, with appropriate food choices, vegan diets can be adequate for children at all ages.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11424545

I use pasture raised chicken eggs as they are simply wasted if something doesn't eat them but the truth about milk today is sickening and I avoid it. But you can live well without even these animal products.

Quote
Yes, meat and eggs are complete proteins, and beans and nuts aren’t. But humans don’t need every essential amino acid in every bite of food in every meal they eat; we only need a sufficient amount of each amino acid every day  . Most dieticians believe that plant-based diets contain such a wide variety of amino acid profiles that vegans are virtually guaranteed to get all of their amino acids with very little effort  .
http://greatist.com/health/complete-vegetarian-proteins

All can be gotten in a supplement.

We are changeable and changing!
Human Ancestors Were Grass Gourmands
http://news.sciencemag.org/2012/11/human-ancestors-were-grass-gourmands
When the debate is lost,
slander becomes the tool of the loser.
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Offline Dyna

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Re: Cowspiracy Documentary & Future Foods
« Reply #59 on: October 29, 2015, 11:23:45 am »
Quote
To me, the biggest problem with the production of meat is the industrialization of the process, as the original process of raising cattle and plants on the same place was more natural, with the parts of the plants that people do not eat being consumed by the animals and the manure from the animals being used to help grow the plants, so the problem is not the production of meat, its the concentration of huge numbers of animals in just one place and the corresponding concentration of just one or two plant species in huge areas, so if we change the way food is produced we could have big gains.

Very true but I don't see a return to the family farm unless the whole earth has a disaster and has to start over.

Portugal imports beef
Quote
The beef consumption per capita are higher in Portugal
(18.4 kg vs 16.9 kg beef/person/year, in 2006 and 2012
respectively compared with the EU average (?11-12 kg
in the same years), and self-sufficiency in beef has
decreased from 54.4% in 2006 to 52.0% in 2012 [3, 5].
People there are concerned also it seems but I can see there is more human raising of the animals for the non-imported meat.

Quote
Some fears about meat consumption are linked with
indiscriminate use of hormones, the use of several
chemicals and prophylactic antibiotics.
https://repositorio.ipcb.pt/bitstream/10400.11/2360/1/Proceedings_International%20Workshop_SArdenha%205%206%20maio%202014.pdf
When the debate is lost,
slander becomes the tool of the loser.
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