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Author Topic: AI Robots more dangerous than Nukes?  (Read 20452 times)

Offline petrus4

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Re: AI Robots more dangerous than Nukes?
« Reply #45 on: August 06, 2014, 12:07:04 pm »
How about the supermarket. Has AI hit there yet. It has for us. Any thing on sale now has to be scanned by your phone and turned in at the check out to get the sales price.

This by itself is not artificial intelligence, deuem.  Please understand the definition of that term.  Mechanised information gathering is not AI.  The term AI refers to the machine's own ability to make decisions.  An info gathering machine doesn't necessarily have the ability to do that.
"Sacred cows make the tastiest hamburgers."
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PLAYSWITHMACHINES

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Re: AI Robots more dangerous than Nukes?
« Reply #46 on: August 06, 2014, 12:38:54 pm »
OK got some catching up to do, busy as usual...
Quote
Skynet experienced a cascade rampancy.  Rampancy is not the same thing as sentience; it's a dissociative form of insanity which can happen on the way to sentience, when the machine becomes cognitively overwhelmed with the amount of information it's taking in.  It is more or less the same thing that was shown happening to Lal, Data's android daughter in Star Trek: The Next Generation, except in Lal's case it was neurological, but in Skynet's case it was more purely psychological, because Skynet didn't have a brain in the human/android sense of the word.

Skynet is also the least likely form of sentient artificial intelligence to eventually exist, if any form does.  This is because very specifically, Skynet is what is known in the literature as an acorporeal artificial intelligence.  Skynet was only acorporeal in the sense of software, however; when we are talking about intelligence, the truly important meaning of the word acorporeal is astral or aetheric, which I will come back to in a minute.
yes i agree, still reading, but good debatable stuff mate ;)
Nice to see peeps actually thinking again... ::)

Offline The Seeker

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Re: AI Robots more dangerous than Nukes?
« Reply #47 on: August 06, 2014, 12:42:11 pm »
This by itself is not artificial intelligence, deuem.  Please understand the definition of that term.  Mechanised information gathering is not AI.  The term AI refers to the machine's own ability to make decisions.  An info gathering machine doesn't necessarily have the ability to do that.

excellent, Petrus... the point i was trying to make myself  8)


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Offline Sinny

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Re: AI Robots more dangerous than Nukes?
« Reply #48 on: August 06, 2014, 12:53:40 pm »
Just reading this threadfrom the last page, apologies if I've missed anything.
From my first year of economy study I've learned that we (in the UK) have turned from a 'manufactoring' economy, to a 'service based' economy, and most of ourr money comes from illegal 'foreign investment'.

Robots are Artificially Intelligent enough to take over manufacture, and I KNOW they are now capable of legitimate 'AI', hence all the 'clones/robotoids'.

AI take over may be a possibility within a century or so.

IMO.

Crapberry, typos.
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PLAYSWITHMACHINES

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Re: AI Robots more dangerous than Nukes?
« Reply #49 on: August 06, 2014, 12:56:32 pm »
Hi Petrus, nice to see you back, maybe some are not so happy, but you provide a good argument my freind,
Quote
Skynet's host system was also relatively conventional mainframe hardware, and a scenario where that hosts a program that can reach sentience, is virtually impossible.

I agree, but this is no longer mainframe-based, the true G**gle version is much closer, it is a datamine coupled to a self-learning A.I. program. That in itself is inherently dangerous, without any set of guidelines such as Asimov's rules. Like i said earlier, the (back then) experts at Cantech told me it could not be done, but it was a hypothetical issue at best, tech has advanced even beyond what they thought was possible. I was reading Tesla while reading Semiconductor tech with these guys back in the 80's.

First of all we have to define real 'sentience' because i can program a robot to kill everything that it percieves as a problem,it can identify freind or foe, take evasive action or form alliances with other robots in order to survive. Explore & conquer, is the basic command in that program, which is less than 10 lines of code.
It beat the CG tanks 9:1... need i say more?

I did this in the 80's then forgot about it, silly me..
Amazing thread, though, time is short, but i will be back in 18 hours, mates ;)
Carry on! ;D

Offline The Matrix Traveller

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Re: AI Robots more dangerous than Nukes?
« Reply #50 on: August 06, 2014, 02:02:13 pm »
Its NOT actually "AI" that is being sought but rather "Consciousness" or perhaps "Awareness"
even "Self Awareness".

NOT achievable as there are systems in place, that can't be altered involving "Protection".


Just as the human primate puts in place ""protection for themselves in Technologies involving
Computer Intelligence, so TOO does LIFE have "Protection", built into its Processing Systems.

One such system prevents the Program (Biological Robots i.e. the human species or any other Species
whether of earth or Alien) ) from bypassing protocol and take charge of or Control LIFE. ("Awareness")


The English word "Intelligence" is rather misleading in that most human Primates believe they are Life !

But the fact remains the human Primate is a Biological Machine ! That's Right the human Body is just
that a Biological Robot, whose Operator is a "Partition of LIFE" (NOT the "Flesh")

IF the "Flesh" (human Primate was in Control they would NOT Die !


The fact also remains that the body (flesh or Species) is the Experience and NOT the One experiencing !

While LIFE ("Partitions of LIFE") experiences both the human Primate or any other "Species"
whether of Earth or Alien.

The two entities are of completely different Worlds or Environments.

The human Primate is part of a Dimensional World where LIFE is in a Non Dimensional World or Environment
involving Processing.

So to understand either "Intelligence" or the human Myth "AI" (Which in fact NOT artificial but has existed
for billions of years within many different biological forms both of earth and Alien) "Awareness"
and "Self Awareness" we must 1st understand the difference between the Experience and the Experiencer.

a.   The Human Primate being Experienced
and
b.    LIFE the TRUE "Entity" experiencing the "species" and "environment" both of which involves Programs
       much like a "1st Person Video game played on a network or even a single player game.
       Those in the gaming world will be able to grasp this ...   :)
« Last Edit: August 06, 2014, 02:06:05 pm by The Matrix Traveller »

Offline Sinny

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Re: AI Robots more dangerous than Nukes?
« Reply #51 on: August 06, 2014, 02:33:25 pm »
Matrix, forgive me.. I too am 'experiencing' some frustration with your 'inability' to explain simply.. Did you just state that we are all 'parts' experiencing a 'whole', however, unless as a 'whole', indivually we are not 'life'?

ETA: you can extract the compliment, rather than the negative from the above.

ETA, ETA - "Borg!". 

« Last Edit: August 06, 2014, 03:00:03 pm by Sinny »
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Offline The Matrix Traveller

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Re: AI Robots more dangerous than Nukes?
« Reply #52 on: August 06, 2014, 02:53:38 pm »
Matrix, forgive me.. I too am 'experiencing' some frustration with your 'inability' to explain simply.. Did you just state that we are all parts 'experiencing a whole, however, unless as a 'whole', indivually we are not 'life'?

ETA: you can extract the compliment, rather than the negative from the above.

The true Entity is LIFE ! (What many see as the entity is the human but the human Primate
is just an Avatar in like a "1st Person" Video Game.
The operator... the real you... NOT your "flesh" is playing with the Avatar... is LIFE.


Each TRUE "Entity" is a "Partition" of LIFE (Singular) (Nothing at all to do with "flesh")

I am referring to "Awareness" or LIFE some of the ancients referred to as "The True Mind".


LIFE is like the Water of a Sea, or huge expanse of Water, (Non-Dimensional)
and the droplets of Water ("Partitions") make up that Sea, or expanse of Water.   :)

Just as the Droplets of Water make up an Ocean... so TOO do the "Partitions" of LIFE (NOT Flesh) make up the ONE.

The individuality is expressed through the individual "Partitions" or Droplets within the ONE. (LIFE)

The Real "Entity" is like the contents of a "Partition" or Module in a "Mainframe", existing in a Non-Dimensional World
some of the Ancients referred to as "The Place of LIFE".

Offline Sinny

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Re: AI Robots more dangerous than Nukes?
« Reply #53 on: August 06, 2014, 02:58:45 pm »
I'm sort of like, shrugging my shoulders..

"Partition of life, life.. Life all the same".

I get the whole Avatar thing... Sort of like the movie Avatar.. It was experienced through an Avatar, but it was still experienced and therefor 'lived'.. And 'lived' is 'life'.

Does life have a 'scale'?
Can you rate my 'life' from 1-10?

Sorry M, just seeking clarification.
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Offline The Matrix Traveller

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Re: AI Robots more dangerous than Nukes?
« Reply #54 on: August 06, 2014, 03:20:57 pm »
I'm sort of like, shrugging my shoulders..

"Partition of life, life.. Life all the same".

I get the whole Avatar thing... Sort of like the movie Avatar.. It was experienced through an Avatar, but it was still experienced and therefor 'lived'.. And 'lived' is 'life'.

Does life have a 'scale'?
Can you rate my 'life' from 1-10?

Sorry M, just seeking clarification.

Here is the 1st part before I can answer Quote;

Quote
Does life have a 'scale'?
Can you rate my 'life' from 1-10?

LIFE and the human Primate are 2 completely different things .


Not a single member of your body knows the Real YOU which is "Awareness"
and SELF "Awareness".

But that "Awareness" (The REAL SELF) does Know your body exists !

The REAL "Self" is NOT the "flesh" !

Now to answer your Question Quote;


Quote
Does life have a 'scale'?
Can you rate my 'life' from 1-10?

10 ....    :) 


NO Less than a 10, which goes for ALL The "Partitions of LIFE".

LIFE ... (The REAL YOU) is "Eternal" ... while the "Avatar" or "human Primate" is a very short experience
with a unique Purpose, nothing at all like what most in the Program (Earth) can imagine !

Offline Sinny

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Re: AI Robots more dangerous than Nukes?
« Reply #55 on: August 06, 2014, 03:27:37 pm »
I understand these concepts.
Like 'conciousness does not originate from the brain, the brain is an antenea'
But I'm still 'living' in this body... Which is what most humans define as life.

Lol Matrix.
"The very word "secrecy" is repugnant in a free and open society"- JFK

Offline Ellirium113

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Re: AI Robots more dangerous than Nukes?
« Reply #56 on: August 06, 2014, 03:54:27 pm »
So why can't a program use different means to monitor all or each life partition in this environment and accumulate the same experiences. This may never be within the means of the program to achieve sentience but rather to use predictive programming to extrapolate and the data stream of this consciousness "Experience" and also have the ability to manipulate this stream to predetermined parameters set by it's programmers? One life partition may "hypnotize" another and program them in much the same way.

With the first cyber-attack came the realization that we can not act fast enough on our own to stop being held ransom or attacked by our own networks. AI is not just a MUST but an inevitability.

Quote
Military and economic pressures are driving the rapid development of autonomous
systems. We show that these systems are likely to behave in anti-social and harmful
ways unless they are very carefully designed. Designers will be motivated to create
systems that act approximately rationally and rational systems exhibit universal drives
towards self-protection, resource acquisition, replication and efficiency. The current
computing infrastructure would be vulnerable to unconstrained systems with these
drives. We describe the use of formal methods to create provably safe but limited
autonomous systems. We then discuss harmful systems and how to stop them. We
conclude with a description of the ‘Safe-AI Scaffolding Strategy’ for creating powerful
safe systems with a high confidence of safety at each stage of development.

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/0952813X.2014.895111#.U-K6wKMg_DQ

This program is coming my friends whether you want to believe it or not...

I have posted this a couple of times but worth repeating IMO.

Quote
Just as Echelon vacuumed up millions of communication signals of phones and faxes, now supercomputers and
satellites sift through the spectrum (10-20 Hz) of 6.5 billion brain waves. The Malech patent device coupled with
PROMIS AI software running on super computers allows the NSA to interpret and interact with the stream of consciousness
of targeted individuals. Computing power is the only hurdle for these high-tech satellites to clear that would allow them to interact with all sentient life forms simultaneously. PROMIS software and artificial intelligence
and “nonlethal” weapon technology are being combined to influence the course of human events in unforeseeable
ways.
Once identified as hostile or a potential threat, a human can be influenced passively, without his or her knowledge.

If that person becomes resistant to that influence or is otherwise deemed a suitable candidate for overt targeting, he
or she is enrolled into the Monarch Hits the Streets (MHS) program, and the beginning of more aggressive and
invasive assaults.

MONARCH: A New Pheonix Program

There are brain to brain interfaces already now why can this not be done by the machine vs. another human.

Quote
Vesuvius - a 512 Qubit quantum computer
 
A Vesuvius 512 Qubit chip
D-Wave, the quantum computing company, has developed a 512 Qubit quantum computer.  Codenamed, Vesuvius, D-Wave say it will be  capable of executing a massive number of computations at once, more than 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, which would take millions of years on a standard desktop PC
    D-Wave claim they will be able to use Vesuvius for:


Binary classification – Enables the quantum computer to be fed vast amounts of complex input data, including text, images, and videos and label the material.
Quantum Unsupervised Feature Learning (QUFL) – Enables the computer to learn on its own, as well as create and optimize its own programs to make itself run more efficiently.
Temporal QUFL – Enables the Computer to predict the future based in information it learns through Binary classification and the QUFL feature.
Artificial Intelligence via a Quantum Neural Network – Enables the computer to completely reconstruct the human brain’s cognitive processes and teach itself how to make better decisions and better predict the future.
Wired has a good article on quantum cloud computing in a recent issue and quantum computing is explained in the final chapter "Digital Consciousness" of the Universal Machine.

http://universal-machine.blogspot.ca/2012/04/vesuvius-512-qubit-quantum-computer.html


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« Last Edit: August 06, 2014, 03:59:45 pm by Ellirium113 »

Offline The Matrix Traveller

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Re: AI Robots more dangerous than Nukes?
« Reply #57 on: August 06, 2014, 04:18:46 pm »
I understand these concepts.
Like 'conciousness does not originate from the brain, the brain is an antenea'
But I'm still 'living' in this body... Which is what most humans define as life.

Lol Matrix.

True....

But what I am trying to expose is that LIFE... the One "experiencing" the body, (Avatar)
and the Environment it is Interacting with...  resides in a "Non-Dimensional Environment".

So the One experiencing (From that "Non-Material Non-Dimensional World") is NOT in the body at all,
but the Body (Avatar) is in the form of Like a "1st Person" Video Game. This 1st Person game is in fact,
taking place in the form of "Processing", involving Computer like "Communication".

What is believed to be a Universe isn't there at all in the physical sense most believe in the earth program.

So the "Real Self" (NOT the "flesh") resides in a "Conceptual Processing System",
part of a "Conceptual Mainframe", as the one experiencing the programs.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2014, 04:20:46 pm by The Matrix Traveller »

Offline The Matrix Traveller

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Re: AI Robots more dangerous than Nukes?
« Reply #58 on: August 06, 2014, 04:24:58 pm »
Hi Ellirium113,

The "Interfacing" between machine and LIFE is common place off Earth !

You are right it is Inevitable !    :)

deuem

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Re: AI Robots more dangerous than Nukes?
« Reply #59 on: August 06, 2014, 07:47:46 pm »
This by itself is not artificial intelligence, deuem.  Please understand the definition of that term.  Mechanised information gathering is not AI.  The term AI refers to the machine's own ability to make decisions.  An info gathering machine doesn't necessarily have the ability to do that.

I understand very well what you think full blown AI is. I even mentioned before that we are now seeing AI in our daily life in its infant form. Like the Tom Cruise missile that make thousands of its own decisions as it flies and picks out its best target. We are seeing this logic in today's computers. They are capable through programming to make a choice. They can recognize voice, color weight, smell, faces and so on. If that is not the start of all this then what is?
 
People are working everyday to continue on this path. So right now. This moment. We are on the road to AI. Its little self is in our daily life growing as we speak. We are watching it blossom. Look at now and 20 years ago. Is there not a significant change towards the goal of AI? I think so.
 
Computers are out there right now making decisions for people. They have the ability through sensors which include camera to make decisions based on what they see. There are many people that can not get up and walk around. So that is not a prerequisite for them either. So AI in its beginnings,  is what we are seeing now and the results I see and which way they are taking it is the wrong path.
 
Like I said before they are using it to form power and resources in the way of fines. This is a very dangerous next step for mankind. The one we might not come back from depending on who runs the show. Us or them. The 3 laws sound all nice and cozy. If they are used. Do you think that the people that start wars, kill people for fun and land grabs care about the 3 laws. They don't care now, why would they install them in AI. They would have one law, follow what I say.

 


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