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Author Topic: John Lydon on Russell Brand's call for revolution: 'The most idiotic thing I've  (Read 4120 times)

Offline Pimander

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For those of you who don't know, John Lydon is the Sex Pistols front man Jonny Rotten, most well known for the punk rock anthem, Anarchy in the UK.

It looks like he agrees with Zorgon's opinion that most revolutionaries will end up homeless.  ::)  :P

[youtube]7kmG1h8iIig[/youtube]

Offline Wrabbit2000

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He has quite a mouth full to share there. I'm about through the video and I like this guy. He's got a big dose of common sense with an understanding of how things work or don't work.

Revolution? lol.... I honestly doubt most of the people who call for it, even have the first clue what the reality of living it would be. Idealism today suffers badly from one major factor it lacks. Contact and appreciation of violence and use of force. Every period of time and all but the latest generations of the UK and US both saw and knew force with hard times as a normal part of life.

I'd written a long and (to look back a couple months ago) very blunt piece on this at another site. The bottom line is a simple one. Anyone who advocates revolution and isn't a wimp to hide behind others in their mind for action? They need to be asked just one question and they *NEED* to  be HELD to it until it is answered. Period. It usually makes the point and reveals the fool that most "revolutionaries" are.

Who are you going to kill first and who MUST die in this revolution of yours? Specifically, by name, rank or title.

Revolutions aren't fought and won (or lost) by slogans, idiotic marches for nothing ever gained and confrontational protest which alienates the very population a revolution MUST become friendly to. (See Occupy on that total inability to grasp public support as necessary...not optional for success).

When the budding Che Gueverra cannot articulate WHO they intend to shoot first OR who simply MUST be a part of the fallen to make a revolution work? It's time to gently remind them....they have a LONG LONG way to go before even raising the topic again, since they haven't even made it through thinking out the first stage yet.

Offline RUSSO

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It looks like he agrees with Zorgon's opinion that most revolutionaries will end up homeless.  ::)  :P

Well... in Brazil they can end up president of the federation  :P

(its ellection times so better take the picture off or i can end up homeless instead lol)

« Last Edit: October 15, 2014, 10:16:04 am by RUSSO »
"Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."

Offline RUSSO

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“Undermine their pompous authority, reject their moral standards, make anarchy and disorder your trademarks. Cause as much chaos and disruption as possible but don’t let them take you ALIVE.”
Sid Vicious

I wonder what Sid Vicious would tell about this today, if alive...

Ps... Punk is Dead :P
"Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."

Offline Pimander

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Punk is just having a quiet nap. :P

If someone tells me they want to revolutionise the social, economic (banking and trade) and political systems then I'm listening.  If they just want to remove the people who are in power without a viable plan for how or what to replace the current structures with then they are wasting my time.

Offline WarToad

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I think modern history shows revolutions so rarely end up with a better system.  Groups form within the revolution, they jocky for power, they outright compete for position and power after the revolution. Once in power they don't like to give it up.  Look at Egypt, Libia, Iraq, Syria.  Complete cluster after the "Arab Spring". 

"Meet the new Boss, same as the old Boss."
Time is the fire in which we burn.

Offline Somamech

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The one thing I got out of listening to that interview is that it's about people. 

The worst thing that ever happened when people could converse on conspiracy forums... is call others "sheep" who are not "awake"

Wacky Planet but one must always try and change it :D




Offline WarToad

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The worst thing that ever happened when people could converse on conspiracy forums... is call others "sheep" who are not "awake"

Pet peeve of mine as well.  "Sheeple", "Kool Aid", "Open your eyes", ect...  all meant to pat oneself on the back in self congradulation because you "get it" and demean others.
Time is the fire in which we burn.

Offline ArMaP

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Look at Egypt, Libia, Iraq, Syria.  Complete cluster after the "Arab Spring".
From all the revolutions of the "Arab Sping" I always thought that the only "natural" revolution was the first one, in Tunisia, with all other revolutions being, some way or another, being "manufactured" by someone to try to get on "revolution bus".
« Last Edit: October 15, 2014, 11:22:34 am by ArMaP »

Offline burntheships

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Hi RUSSO, great to see you!
...Cause as much chaos and disruption as possible
...Sid Vicious

This is the work of many of our leaders today, just take a look around.

  Look at Egypt, Libia, Iraq, Syria.  Complete cluster after the "Arab Spring". 

"Meet the new Boss, same as the old Boss."

Yep!

What to do, what to do?
I like to find ways to enjoy life despite our nonglorious leaders.
This could give me the appearance of a "sheep".

 ;D


"This is the Documentary Channel"
- Zorgon

Offline burntheships

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"This is the Documentary Channel"
- Zorgon

Offline Pimander

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From all the revolutions of the "Arab Sping" I always thought that the only "natural" revolution was the first one, in Tunisia, with all other revolutions being, some way or another, being "manufactured" by someone to try to get on "revolution bus".
Agreed.  The Arab Spring was obviously influenced from the outside.

Very few "revolutions" actually changed the social or economic model.  I would describe those as changes in personnel in power and not real revolutions.  Changing who is King is not an abolition of Monarchy.

Offline petrus4

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Russell Brand is populist line noise, as far as I am concerned.  He's the Marxist Left's answer to Justin Bieber.  He is popular exclusively for the reason that he keeps telling the Left what it collectively wants to hear.  In that sense he's very similar to Chomsky; he keeps diagnosing and drawing attention to problems, but is very short on solutions.

I'm no longer subscribed to /r/Socialism, on Reddit.  I used to be, until I realised that it was nothing more than an echo chamber for brainwashed Marxists to cry to each other about what "the Man" was doing to them.  The Left as it currently exists in collective or institutional terms has no solutions, and a big part of the reason why, is because it is obsessed with self-victimisation. 

The Left do not in fact want to solve society's problems, because if they did so, they would remove their reason for existing in the first place.  Another good example of this is the fact that feminism has recently invented "rape culture."  They did that in order to give themselves another cause, so that they could keep from becoming irrelevant.  Fourth wave feminism consists of a very large number of people with no other reason to exist.

The thing that I'm starting to realise, is that everybody wants a free lunch, myself included.  For the Left, the free lunch has labels like, "equality," and "post-scarcity."  For the Right, said free lunch has names like, "usury," and "passive income."  The latter is the preferred euphemism; usury is not mentioned even in whispers, because that gets far too close to the real nature of the problem.

Where it gets a lot more murky and complicated, however, is when you start trying to figure out just how wrong we are, for wanting said free lunch.  According to anthropology, doing sufficient work to ensure that they ate, meant a much shorter work week for indigenous people than what it means for us.  That implies to me that while work is therefore genuinely necessary, it isn't necessary in anywhere near the amounts that we have been indoctrinated to believe.  Agriculture is much more labourious than what came before it.

I had someone just yesterday, reprimanding me over the idea that I supposedly don't want to contribute anything to society, as far as work is concerned.  The problem is that I don't see it like that.  I don't know of anyone who is rich, who got that way by truly contributing to society.  Wealth generation is almost purely a social game; it's about who you know, how many lies you are willing to tell, and whose genitals you are willing to stimulate orally, to put it delicately.  Social contribution and genuine, honest work have very little to do with it.

I've also realised that the real solution to David Cameron and his ilk, is for the rest of us to simply stop enabling them.  We have to stop nodding and agreeing when politicians show up on our television screens to tell us that we need to go down on our knees and revere the police and military, because they supposedly keep us safe from the terrorists; terrorists who said politicians are themselves responsible for.

This is the other reason why I'm not a member of the, "thank you for your service," demographic.  If I put soldiers and cops on a pedestal, that is reinforcing the idea that they are authority figures to me; and I have no desire for them to be such.  Apart from anything else, within the context of the GWOT, they don't deserve it.  Both groups are servants of the Five Eyes governments, whose collective mission is to screw the rest of us over. 

I am not going to thank anyone who inadvertently persues and accomplishes objectives, when said objectives are directly counter to my own wellbeing.  That is what any soldier who has fought in the GWOT, has done.

I know people here are going to roll their eyes at me writing another rant about this, but the point is that people like Cameron use both the cops and the military as human shields.  All politicians do it.  They attempt to pass legislation which none of us want, and which only harms us; and then if people protest, the next step is simply to deploy the riot police to beat up said protesters.  After that, we are told that the police deserve our hallowed, hand-on-heart reverence because they, "keep us safe!"  Pardon me while I projectile vomit.

Cameron and his kind are despots.  The man is an evil tyrant, and he makes a mockery of any pretense at democracy.  He does what he likes, and if anyone disagrees, the riot police get called out.  These are the people who I am supposed to revere as the protectors of my safety.  They are protectors of the politicians' safety, not mine.  The police primarily serve the purpose of propping up Cameron, Harper, Abbott, and the rest of said psychopaths all over the planet.

The way to counter such politicians, then, is for us to stop actively desiring an authoritarian society; and the first step to doing that, is to stop making the assumption that the cops and the military are some sort of superior caste to the rest of us.  They are not.

We also need to start recognising hypocritical, populist whores like Brand for exactly what they are, as John Lydon said.  Brand is rich.  He will go down to the local Occupy protest and make a superficially great speech, and all of the empty headed, Millennial Starbucks demographic will ooh and ahh and exhibit all of the appropriate emotions, precisely on cue.  After that, Brand will go back to his mansion, and nothing will change.

I don't know whether or not participation in the political system is the answer.  Part of me thinks that if it really was the answer, then given the number of people who really want change, if said people were participating in said system, then things would have improved by now.

I think more than anything else, we really need to do the following three things:-

a}  Discard Marx completely.  Get him out of your head.  The only thing that the theory of class warfare accomplishes, is to cause you to view everyone else as the enemy, when in reality, they aren't.  Everyone else is just trying to get their needs met, just like you.  Instead of seeing, "the rich," or "the working class," we need to start seeing each other as human beings. 

Granted, some of said human beings are psychopaths, but we still don't need to demonise them.  Lock them up, yes; but not demonise them excessively.  David Cameron is a very sick and damaged person, but it is the fault of the British people that he is in power.  As soon as they start to realise that, people like him will no longer be a problem.

b}  Stop being cowards.  We all need to cease being receptive to the endless invitations to fear and hatred.  There are several people here who are openly and enthusiastically wallowing in Ebola doom porn in particular; said people know who they are.  Ebola is not a real threat, just as Fukashima was not, before it.  Ebola hasn't killed 5,000 people yet; and as I've said before, for a plague, that is less than nothing.  Just stop it.

This also means we need to put ISIS in perspective as well.  ISIS are a CIA sponsored and trained front group.  We know this.  They exist purely in order to maintain an ongoing state of fear within the Western public, and to further destabilise the Middle East, so that the endless supply of threats and bogeymen will be ongoing.  It's a way of making sure that Oceania will always be at war with East Asia, and everyone on this forum knows that; so I'm not sure why we are still giving them so much airtime.

If you guys want intellectual stimulation, then that's fine; I do too.  The Ebola and ISIS puzzles have been solved, though.  I want new ones.  Those topics are hamster wheels at this point; let's talk about something else.

c}  Stop wanting a hierarchical and authoritarian society, on the basis of the above fear.  Most people these days do not want freedom.  Instead, they want a completely controlled and regimented society, where all of their thinking is done for them, and where they can feel completely safe and protected from threats which, to a very large extent, do not exist outside their own heads anyway. 

I will repeat that Ebola is not a legitimate threat; and by participating in the delusion that it is, we are helping the cabal.  Doom mongering here keeps our entire readership in an ongoing condition of fear and despair, which is exactly what the people in charge of the current mess, want.  I know that most people here have good intentions; but I would request that some intelligence start to be added to said altruism.  We need to stop falling for obvious and transparent bait.
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Offline Pimander

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If you guys want intellectual stimulation, then that's fine; I do too.  The Ebola and ISIS puzzles have been solved, though.  I want new ones.  Those topics are hamster wheels at this point; let's talk about something else.
I could not agree more.  I'm making a conscious effort to start posting on  Pegasus and Living Moon topics again, which is how I met Zorgon in the first place and got invited here.  I feel like at times some extremely rude people have done nothing but hinder us.  Don't forget, before we had an "inventors group" we already had an energy team here.

As for the left-right argument.  Most people do not entirely ascribe to either side and I think the debate can be distracting.  Any global solution has to start with a few fundamental principles.

1.  A global solution has to be GLOBAL.  A complete solution can not be based solely on the interests of your own nation.  In other words a solution must be Internationalist NOT Nationalist.

2.  A global solution with any chance of success has to be moral.  Unfair trade rules, banking practices, wars, distribution of wealth (poverty) or discrimination against people for being different cannot be acceptable to a solution as they are immoral and will not be accepted by the majority.

3.  A global solution has to be practical.  Practical means it can work in the real world.

4.  It has to be possible to get there.  If a solution can be put into place that is fair (moral), democratic using means that are legal than it is difficult for the people in power to use force to stop it.  In fact, if given no choice, then to stay in power TPTB may have to change their modus operandi and adopt the alternative (it is in their nature to cling to power).

Obviously to get there people need to be aware of your plan and support you.  Mass support is the way to force change.  The only way to get mass support is to have a simple clear message that everyone can understand.

A simple, moral and fair but realistic plan that people the world over can believe in.  It sounds so simple doesn't it.  :)
« Last Edit: October 16, 2014, 05:26:02 am by Pimander »

Offline Sinny

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Another grand post Petrus,

In regards to Russel Brand, are you suggesting he should shut up because he has money?

"The very word "secrecy" is repugnant in a free and open society"- JFK

 


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