Pegasus Research Consortium

The Living Moon => Thorfourwinds Section => Amaterasu Solar - Abundance Paradigm => Topic started by: Amaterasu on September 15, 2014, 11:18:37 am

Title: Thoughts About Teaching Children
Post by: Amaterasu on September 15, 2014, 11:18:37 am

If anyOne is curious about how I would choose to teach Our children, let Me lay out what I see.  With today’s technology We have access to a vast quantity of data.  To confine Our children to the learning of the state-decreed curriculum is…well, psychopathic, and here’s why.

I will begin with Jo.  Say I am Jo’s mother and I want the best for Jo.  Jo has been born into this planet with no obligations to do or be anything.  We cannot make Jo do anything, but We do have a large degree of influence.  So rather than making obligations for Jo and expecting Jo to be happy to fulfill them when Jo arrives at that moment when an understanding of what is “expected” of Jo is reached, I would do it differently.  Rather than say, “All children MUST learn” anything, I would approach it like this:

Reading, communicating and math are important to give access to learning.  These three would be the only areas of specific focus, and I would encourage Jo look into them at every reasonable point.  Offer to help.  To teach.  Today, that is a difficult choice for most parents because the “state” – the psychopaths with all the money and the power – have sucked virtually all parental time away, occupying Us with, heh, occupations, which We need to go do (without Our children, who might learn things about what filling an occupation is like) to keep Us in food/water/clothing/shelter, and, hopefully, with enough left to do something We enjoy in what time is left.  They have also mandated a narrow band of education.

Back to Jo.  Rather than saying Jo must go to school and learn, I would start a daily Explore Session.  “We only have three hours to go exploring,” and then I would offer the interweb of data and explain to Jo, early and often at first and periodically thereafter, that:

1.   Data is not information – just because it is there does not mean it is true, but that Jo should look to Jo’s experience and ask what the probabilities are that any piece of data is true.

2.   Jo should choose who Jo trusts – hopefully it’s Me and the rest of the family – and verify things Jo is unsure of.

3.   AnyOne on the interweb who says They want to meet with Jo in person is not likely to be interested in Jo’s well-being, especially if They want to meet alone.  There are dangers to watch out for.

I would encourage Jo to look into anything that sounds interesting, and offer suggestions.  I would initially run the mouse and keyboard, all the while saying, “When You’re old enough, You can learn how, and do this Yourself.”  And always, the question would be, “What do You want to explore?”

When Jo first says that Jo wants to quit exploring and actually do – maybe jewelry-making has caught Jo’s attention, or archaeology, playing a guitar, designing a building, or…whatever – I would do what I could to make it possible for Jo to do.

I would contact someOne (or many, if need be) and ask if They will allow Jo to watch, and then maybe try a hand, if Jo’s interest is in a direction where an expert can teach.  Or start to focus on the sites with data about a subject of interest.  Or get the instrument, the wood and the tools, the paintbrushes…  Whatever Jo needs to do as interests Jo.

I would explain to Jo that if ever the doing is no longer of interest, We can always go back to exploring.

I would this way guide Jo to what Jo most truly is suited for in contributing the highest quality to Human society.  I mean, Let’s face it.  We all do best that which We love to do.

There are things I would teach.  Like the fact that We choose to live under three Ethical Laws.  The three Laws of Ethics are:

Do not willfully hurt or kill anOther without fully informed consent – and I think a rule of thumb is that 18 is the age at which Any may give informed consent on this.  A bias, perhaps, but I know children can be ill-informed, and that alone negates the ability to give consent in informed fashion.

Do not willfully take or damage anOther’s property.  If You don’t know it is Yours, leave it alone even if You don’t see an owner to ask.

Do not willfully defraud anOther.  Lying, cheating, conning, We do not do if We are honorable, ethical.

I would introduce the Betterment Ethic.  We contribute best by making things better for  Those around Us.  The highest honor goes to Those of Us who have made it better.  Maybe Jo might want to consider finding a way, by creating beauty, contributing to knowledge, bringing joy, helping out, to offer to the betterment.

I would explain that Jo controls only one thing:  Jo’s behavior.  All else Jo can only influence with the behavior chosen.  Bad behavior choices elicit negative responses and decrease the social currency One has – People will like Jo better if Jo chooses good or neutral behavior than if poor behavior is chosen.

I would make suggestions and encourage Jo in finding what Jo loves best, with an eye to how that love can be applied towards betterment.

I would find groups interested in what Jo is interested in and encourage Jo to socialize, share information, and co-create with Others.

Of course, with the way things are set up now, there are many blocks to teaching Jo in this fashion.  I have already mentioned that the useless eliters ensure most of Us cannot spend much time with Our children.  In the way They have things set up, They have sucked Us into adding Our time/energy into a system that, overall, enriches Them and keeps most of Us poor.  Rather than having the opportunity to explore, learn, and do as We love, We are told We have an obligation to find some way of adding Our energy that will provide accounting units/tokens for that energy which are required for Our survival.

We must learn a strict set of data – often with theory taught as fact – and further education beyond the initial set should be not in anything that We love but in what will make Us money (and if We can do what We love and make money, We are with the lucky few).  Though the system started out facilitating the exchange of goods, with the system of money promoting the most psychopathic, the emergence of corporate facades to put legal protections in place, more and more avenues to input Our energy are in support of this corporate structure that feeds a very few the vast majority of the wealth of the planet.

From cashiers, sales, accounting, collections, marketing, advertising, insurance, and other such jobs on up to banking itself, We add Our energy to support the system that enriches the few psychopaths at the top.  None of this Human energy is truly productive otherwise.  It does not create food, clothing or shelter.  It does not create enjoyment.  It does not move product so much as impede the movement of resources to Those who need them.  Given that this planet has way more to offer than We all can consume, the useless eliter propaganda to the contrary, the choice to continue this accounting of Our energy, this system of money, is not only irrational but Self-destructive.

In truth, it is designed to suck Our energy from Us such that We must rely on the “statanic” few.  We offer up Our children to state institutions to be trained with the work “ethic” – slaves have a work “ethic;” free Humans would be best served with the Betterment Ethic – so that We have the time/energy to give to the satanic corporations that do the psychopathic things They do with the aid of the state.  (And lest You question whether the state is aiding the corporations to the detriment of Us People, ask why “laws” were passed that barred suing pharmaceutical companies because of vaccines and other output, and Monsanto in general…  These deadly corporations can do as They like with impunity.  Think about that.)

This sucking of parental time/energy has ripped the family apart, with each member connecting little or not connecting at all, in a general undercurrent of desperation as the parents worry about keeping food, clothing, shelter and water flowing with the tokens They received for the energy They added.

So in continuing to choose the present way of doing things, which is rather illogical if a different and better choice is available, We allow the continuation of such things a fluoridated water, GMO’s, Roundup, pharmaceuticals that kill hundreds of thousands and damage many more each year, vaccines causing systemic damage in Our children, “fracking” on the pretext of getting energy when the real purpose is to poison Our water supply, “geoengineering” with nanoparticulate toxins, Washington and royalty pedophilia rampant, the TSA, the NSA, the CIA, the FBI, FEMA camps imprisoning the homeless, the wars fought on manufactured pretext – war profiteering, ALL of it, the bogus news created for Us such as Sandy Hook and the Boston bombing, suppression of, and now the attempt to control via the Codex Alimentarius, natural dietary healing methods, the elimination of 90% of Us with the rest of Us stuffed in what amounts to cages as They pursue Agenda 21.

It all looks pretty dire when taken as a whole.  And this is the short list!

Thus I persist in My efforts to point out that We DO have a choice.  Right now.  We can choose better on this planet.  Because money is accounting for Our energy and also promotes the most psychopathic to the top, because We swim in energy and there are ways to get useful energy out, because there is vastly more than We need here on Earth/Eridu, because We can get robots to do anything We need done but have no One to do it, because We can transmute matter with enough energy, because We have the interweb to communicate needs and desires as well as emergencies and crimes, We can eliminate the need to account for Our energy (money) and free all Jo(e)s from adding Their energy to the psychopathic system We see now, to pursue an education that truly resonates with Them and makes things a bit better for Their touch in this, Our co-creation.  We can eliminate all “laws” of commerce – most of the statutes, codes, acts, bills, edicts, mandates, and other names for the rules We consent to have money as motive for passage – We can teach the Betterment Ethic, adventure or withdraw, build and co-create, under the three Laws of Ethics only.

We can choose to get rid of money, giving each One of Us the opportunity to choose a life of happiness.  Is that not the definition of freedom?  That principle of the American ideal that They also teach Our children that has been so grossly undermined?  Nothing better than a slave who believes (S)He is free.  They know this and use it.

Right now what any of Us can do is to spread awareness.   Share this article and the ones at the forum linked below.  If enough of Us see the path, this psychopathic trajectory might be avoided.  Personally, I think it’s worth the effort to try.

I have written many articles, none extremely long, that pull together a way to use these tools We just now have on this planet in more detail and have a forum I have collected them in.  The first is a bit academic, and others are short and to the point.

T.A.P. - You're It!
http://tapyoureit.boards.net/

I hope You choose to visit and discuss.  No telling how much time is left, eh?

“Revolution in ideas, not blood.”

???

“Did You give an oath and find it’s bait and switch?  Well, there is no oath then, is there?”
"ALL money systems promote the most psychopathic to the top of the money/power heap - THEY will do ANYTHING to get there."
"The love of money is the root of all evil; remove the soil in which the root grows..."
"If the universe is made of mostly "dark" energy...can We use it to run Our cars?"
"If You want peace, take the PROFIT out of war."
Title: Re: Thoughts About Teaching Children
Post by: sky otter on September 15, 2014, 11:33:04 am


question
do you have children?

is this what  they have been taught?
Title: Re: Thoughts About Teaching Children
Post by: Amaterasu on September 15, 2014, 11:43:38 am

question
do you have children?

is this what  they have been taught?

I have a daughter that was stolen from Me when She was 4 1/2...  She would have been so taught, yes.
Title: Re: Thoughts About Teaching Children
Post by: WarToad on September 15, 2014, 12:31:57 pm
To confine Our children to the learning of the state-decreed curriculum is…well, psychopathic, and here’s why.

I've come to realize you just like to plaster that word on anything you don't care for.  Mild, moderate, severe, it's all psychopathic to you.   ::)

I have 4 kids in state schools, any issues I have are more specific teachers personalities, specific other kids poor behavior, but not really the curriculum.  We do add to it at home.  We are homework psychopaths.  We go to additional art classes, gymnastics.  But we let kids be kids.  You only get that snippit of life once.  Teaching them to hate and fear anyone with money or some nebulous sense of power, all government, police, military, modern medicine is ridiculous.  They don't need that.  That's not the fun loving child I want to raise.

Title: Re: Thoughts About Teaching Children
Post by: Amaterasu on September 15, 2014, 01:05:24 pm
I've come to realize you just like to plaster that word on anything you don't care for.  Mild, moderate, severe, it's all psychopathic to you.   ::)

Sure.  If You say so.

Quote
I have 4 kids in state schools, any issues I have are more specific teachers personalities, specific other kids poor behavior, but not really the curriculum.  We do add to it at home.  We are homework psychopaths.  We go to additional art classes, gymnastics.  But we let kids be kids.  You only get that snippit of life once.  Teaching them to hate and fear anyone with money or some nebulous sense of power, all government, police, military, modern medicine is ridiculous.  They don't need that.  That's not the fun loving child I want to raise.

Who would teach Them to "hate and fear anyone with money or some nebulous sense of power, all government, police, military, modern medicine?"  You just don't get it.  Most of Us on this planet work for the weekend, are anywhere from bored with Our jobs to outright loathing of them, and most of Our energy goes to support the flow of riches to the very top.  It's not People with money, per se, but that at the top, psychopathy does rule.

And I tell You what, kids would have vastly larger opportunity to be kids without being ripped from the family and indoctrinated.  Exploring what interests Them, what They care about.

And FYI, if You think things will get better clinging to the status quo, wrapped in a Disney fairytale lie, just wait till the "geoengineering" is releasing live virii...  "Pandemic" created.  Just wait till You are told You MUST be vaccinated.  The corporfasist, statanic powers that be WILL create that and worse for Us.  They want 90% of Us dead.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzEEgtOFFlM[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzEEgtOFFlM

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jb1JU4T59BA[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jb1JU4T59BA

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MQlIpJ2lmM[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MQlIpJ2lmM

I suggest You too are a slave that thinks He is free.

Just sayin'.
Title: Re: Thoughts About Teaching Children
Post by: ArMaP on September 15, 2014, 01:09:20 pm
Who would teach Them to "hate and fear anyone with money or some nebulous sense of power, all government, police, military, modern medicine?"
What do you mean by that? ???
Title: Re: Thoughts About Teaching Children
Post by: sky otter on September 15, 2014, 01:18:43 pm




I have a daughter that was stolen from Me when She was 4 1/2...  She would have been so taught, yes.

how terrible  that is.. was it  your spouse?..do you ever get to see her?  I hope you know wthat she's ok.
Title: Re: Thoughts About Teaching Children
Post by: Amaterasu on September 15, 2014, 01:25:22 pm
What do you mean by that? ???

I was just quoting Wartoad...
Title: Re: Thoughts About Teaching Children
Post by: Amaterasu on September 15, 2014, 01:29:17 pm



I have a daughter that was stolen from Me when She was 4 1/2...  She would have been so taught, yes.

how terrible  that is.. was it  your spouse?..do you ever get to see her?  I hope you know wthat she's ok.

It was My sister - who works in child protective stuff and knew everyOne in court, knew the ropes and all, and I stood no chance.  It is interesting to know that My sister is barren, and even My girlfriend could tell She was envious of Me having a child.

No I never see Her.  3000 miles is too far to travel with no money to visit.  And though My daughter is getting the Disney fairytale indoctrination, I know She does not lack for the essentials.
Title: Re: Thoughts About Teaching Children
Post by: ArMaP on September 15, 2014, 01:32:35 pm
I was just quoting Wartoad...
Thanks, for some reason I didn't see that part of the post.
Title: Re: Thoughts About Teaching Children
Post by: sky otter on September 15, 2014, 01:33:22 pm


that's really sad that a sister could do that just because she couldn't have kids..
how on earth did she get away with that
Title: Re: Thoughts About Teaching Children
Post by: Amaterasu on September 15, 2014, 01:38:46 pm

that's really sad that a sister could do that just because she couldn't have kids..
how on earth did she get away with that

When We went homeless, rather than having Our daughter be homeless, I sent Her to My sister's with the understanding that once We were stable, Our daughter would come home.  Then My sister drew up papers that gave rights to the court, and not Us.  When I pointed out that it looked like that was what was in the papers, I was lied to several times with assurances that We retained rights.  Foolishly, We signed the papers.

Then We began court proceedings, "appearing" via phone, to get Our daughter back.  Sis made sure all rulings went in Her favor.

[shrug]  What can One do?
Title: Re: Thoughts About Teaching Children
Post by: rdunk on September 15, 2014, 02:30:30 pm
Right now, two of the significant things wrong in this country are:

1. Many parents are raising their children in a way that results in lower schooling achievement in strong learning possibilities.

2. We the people/parents have allowed the league of "progressive thought" to over-ride well planned teaching objectives, which is resulting in a high percentage of under-educated post-high school age young adults in today's United States. They often are not really learning. The such are often not able to answer even some of the simplest questions concerning geography, government, science, math, and etc!

NO! NO! NO! Setting all children free just to kinda learn what suits their very young fancy, is simply wrong in its self, for MOST children. Children need a good foundation of parental/teacher structure in early early life, to ensure a sense of motivation and direction for their later years in education and in adult life.

I will say that there is "way insufficient" provision for recognizing "exceptional brilliance" in children, and providing for their extensive and different educational needs almost from the womb (very early in life). These kids should be considered as, and dealt with as, NATIONAL TREASURES, for their potential for contribution and paradigm change to the ways in which people live their lives with one another in this world.

Now....................with all of that said, I do have a video that somewhat addresses not only what I said about "brilliant" kids, but I do think this "instructor" is relating it to most if not all kids. Also, this would somewhat apply a way to what Amy is proposing in this OP. I know most of you probably have seen this video before, as I think I might have posted it here a year of two ago - "Forget What You Know"!. There is another video of this young guy too....dealing with a quantum mechanics equation, which is way way over my head, that I will it  include here too, as it also relates to where "some kids" could/can go, pretty much on their own educationaly.


                                   [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uq-FOOQ1TpE&feature[/youtube]

                                   [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DUerSdSgG0[/youtube]
Title: Re: Thoughts About Teaching Children
Post by: Pimander on September 15, 2014, 02:42:58 pm
You Americans have serious problems.

You have had Presidents who cannot spell the word "because" in front of a classroom full of kids or know who the President of Pakistan (an ally?) was.    :o

A lot of US citizens think that the rest of the world is behind them.  They would be shocked to see that the average citizen in much of Western Europe (or Japan, Singapore or even China in terms of literacy) is considerably better educated than the average US citizen.

If the current trend continues it looks like the balance of world power may change if education standards are any kind of indicator
Title: Re: Thoughts About Teaching Children
Post by: Sinny on September 15, 2014, 03:06:23 pm
I left school... 7 years ago now.

And in hindsight.... What a pile of crap.

I owe public school system nothing past the point of basic English,  Math, and Science.

Since I've left school my education has excelled 1000% since being self-tutored.

If they wanted to teach me anything useful, they should have taught me about the slave system I was born into and how best to prepare one's self for dealing with this psychotic world.

Teaching me from the age of 4 the pyramids were built with ramps

Pshhht.

 ::)
Title: Re: Thoughts About Teaching Children
Post by: Amaterasu on September 15, 2014, 03:14:10 pm
As I said, in this narrow "education" They teach, theories are taught as "truth."  And I too have learned vastly more in My exploration sessions on the web than I ever did in school. 
Title: Re: Thoughts About Teaching Children
Post by: rdunk on September 15, 2014, 03:23:44 pm
I left school... 7 years ago now.

And in hindsight.... What a pile of crap.

I owe public school system nothing past the point of basic English,  Math, and Science.

Since I've left school my education has excelled 1000% since being self-tutored.

If they wanted to teach me anything useful, they should have taught me about the slave system I was born into and how best to prepare one's self for dealing with this psychotic world.

Teaching me from the age of 4 the pyramids were built with ramps

Pshhht.
::)

Sinny, I am sorry for your having had that kind of schooling experience. My 12 years of public school experience was completely opposite of what you relate - I wonder why?? Of course, for every individual at every age, circumstances of life are different, with some for the good, and some for the not so good. My high school years were some of the best times of my life, and with them I learned so much about real friends, and about life with others, in addition to what my teachers were trying to get across to me . I would not trade those years for anything, earthly!

Certainly the early school years are simply preparatory for our adult learning, which you Sinny are not so far into yet.
Title: Re: Thoughts About Teaching Children
Post by: Sinny on September 15, 2014, 03:42:40 pm
"I wonder why"

Where were you taught Rdunk, and what sort of subjects were on your curriculum?

Mine was basic English & Math up to the age of 11, which I excelled at.

From 12 onwards, English consisted of 1 year poetry (Blake and Wordsworth, which left me absolutely suicidal), one year Macbeth (yes a whole year), a whole year on to 'To Kill a Mockingbird)... And a whole year of exclusion from class for challenging my teachers lack of teaching in final year aha.
(You can fill any gaps in with generic English crap).

Math, took us through the usual motions of crap I'll never use.

Science was the only subject I sort-of enjoyed, as our Science Teacher (only in final year mind you), was one of few teachers who could teach her subject without constantly referring to their own teaching handbook.

Art I enjoyed, only because the first 4 years we were left to our own devices and got into all sorts of mischief, in final year, I worked on some brilliant Tiger paintings and got myself topmarks.

Electronics was interesting to me, but resources only allowed for one year of this *rollseyes*.

Woodwork, I also excelled at, but only because my grandad had been teaching me since forever.

In religious studies (which was somehow mandatory), they spent 5 years educating us about the Muslim faith, and took us on several trips to Mosques.. Not once was the Bible ever produced, nor was any other religion for that matter.

Geography was reasonable, although I specifically had to opt into that subject.

French was mandatory for a few years.
I hate French, and sucked at it.

What else...

I cooked a vegetable soup the once.

We had a subject called 'humanities' ... Which to this day, I'm still not sure what the purpose was.

In 6 months, they touched upon the 'definition' of law.
Nothing else comes to mind.

I sucked at music, but only because the teacher, singular, was more taken with the kids who thought they could sing, and the guys already doing music out side of school.

PE once a week, which I turned into 4 times a week being on the football and rowing teams.

That about covers the whole of my 12 years state education.

It's lucky I found the internet isn't it?

Aha.
Title: Re: Thoughts About Teaching Children
Post by: zorgon on September 19, 2014, 01:41:50 pm
As I said, in this narrow "education" They teach, theories are taught as "truth."  And I too have learned vastly more in My exploration sessions on the web than I ever did in school.

And have you put that knowledge to good use?

 ::)

Back in Toronto our schooling wasn't too bad. Sure they taught the basic lies like the ramps to build the Pyramids but that is because the 'expert' archaeologists truly still believe that

 ::)

Yes we were also forced to learn French. I was pretty good at it (because it is very similar to German) but when I went to Quebec to use it  seems the Québécois (especially in Montreal) are assholes about it (Long Story)

But when it got to Highschool that was when things got good. I was a whiz in math and science.  At the time Computers were just coming out so I qualified for the new computer science course (you had to lose one class in amath and one in science to take it) Programming was done on punch cards.  In Chemistry we had a teacher that was an Einstein (same hair too LOL)  We had art and shop classes (auto, machine shop, metal work)  So all in all it was an awesome time...

Seems it depends a lot on what teachers you get  more than the system  and it also depends what YOU take out of it... Do you spend your spare time in the library or seeing the teacher after class for additional material? or do you spend your spare time smoking pot? (yeah we had many of those back then... after all it was the Hippy Era when I was in school)

Odd thing about them Hippies... they would preach "Do your own thing!"  yet if YOUR thing was not their thing, you were brainwashed 

Tweety had it right ... bunch of hippotwits    :P  and always giggling at everything in class

 ::)

Title: Re: Thoughts About Teaching Children
Post by: Pimander on September 19, 2014, 02:21:11 pm
Bloody hell Z?  Showing your age there.  Punch cards. I was a little kid then. :P  :o
Title: Re: Thoughts About Teaching Children
Post by: zorgon on September 19, 2014, 08:38:45 pm
Bloody hell Z?  Showing your age there.  Punch cards. I was a little kid then. :P  :o

Yup I am an old fossil one foot in the grave :P Programming language at the time   I was using the upgraded Waterloo Fortran VI  Had a friend at Waterloo University that would run my stuff for me so I got my results faster than the rest of the class

Point is its not only up to the sytem if you get an education...  you need to want it too   ::)
Title: Re: Thoughts About Teaching Children
Post by: Amaterasu on September 20, 2014, 04:01:03 am
And have you put that knowledge to good use?

By My definition of "good use," absolutely.  By Yours, unknown, as I have no idea what Your definition is.

EDIT to add...  Where does One get the idea that "smoking pot" precludes doing anything else?  Geez, what propagandist tripe.  In fact, the greater part of My insight has come whilst medicated and relaxed.  And the larger part of My writing, too.
Title: Re: Thoughts About Teaching Children
Post by: Pimander on September 20, 2014, 05:53:34 am
Point is its not only up to the sytem if you get an education...  you need to want it too   ::)
I was extremely lucky Z.  MY Dad influenced me before my parents separated.  We used to talk about science all the time and he gave me his Nature and Science 20 volume encyclopedia the day he moved out.  I used to sit and read about Space, Dinosaurs and stuff for hours.

None of my brothers and sisters had the same ambition to go to Uni (two of my little sisters shared the same Dad but being younger didn't have the same time with Dad).  I was taught at age ten by a former Geophysicist (he decided to teach children) and decided I wanted to be a scientist from that point.  He taught me sub-atomic physics earlier than most kids learn it.  Luckily for me, I left 6th form (at 18) when you still got free tuition fees when you were accepted for Uni.  I was offered places at 9 Universities but chose Manchester.  I didn't mention my Dad on the forms and got a small grant and loan.

I am eternally grateful to the government in the UK for allowing poorer children to study back then.  These days it is a lot harder.  I do admit to running out of money and breaking the law to complete the course (I had to eat).  Yes, it is true I was lucky but nothing came to me on a plate.  I had to battle to get there.

Anyone with kids thinking of studying in the UK should consider Manchester.  Great night life, great culture and great Uni, especially for Egyptology, Medicine or Bio-medical sciences.  I think they are strong on Physics (Rutherford split the atom as a Manchester academic).  It is also cheaper to live there than London or Oxford/Cambridge.
Title: Re: Thoughts About Teaching Children
Post by: Sgt.Rocknroll on September 20, 2014, 06:13:16 am
I might upset some here, but that is not my intention. Just relaying my experiences growing up in the 50's, 60's...

My Dad worked in the oil field, mostly hard labor...he quit school to join the Army in WWII...but he wasn't stupid...He grew up on a farm in south
Louisiana....
My Mom was a strict Irish Catholic girl and she passed that on to her children.

I went from the 1st grade to the 10th at a Christian Brothers all boys school...total in my class approx. 60...so very small...

It was strict and hard but every parent would want their sons to attend. Reasons?

Discipline, Catholic religious education, sciences, math, we didn't have 'social science' as they do today. We had Government/Civics.

(sidenote) As early as I can remember, I had a fascination with Comic Books and Superheros....those were the 'golden/silver age years'...I learned a lot about space and science fiction from reading those stories....

anyway the original point is what's lacking today is the first one on my list...'Discipline'...
Kids are taught more to 'how to get along' in today's society/what people think about them/not hurting someones' feelings..etc..than being a tough individual......

sorry for the diatribe or whatever....just my thoughts...:)
Title: Re: Thoughts About Teaching Children
Post by: Pimander on September 20, 2014, 06:48:50 am
anyway the original point is what's lacking today is the first one on my list...'Discipline'...
Kids are taught more to 'how to get along' in today's society/what people think about them/not hurting someones' feelings..etc..than being a tough individual.....
I used to disagree with you.  Since I worked in education I changed my mind.  There is no point standing in front of 25 kids who will not cooperate with a teacher.  You have to have a level of discipline if you are teaching more than a handful of kids.

Why did I decide to leave education after only a couple of years?  Lack of the tools to keep discipline.  The teaching profession loses a lot of talented teachers every year for the same reason.  It's far easier to work in a lab or run your own business.  I should know.

Looking back at my schooling, most of us would have done very little work in certain classes if we were given the option.
Title: Re: Thoughts About Teaching Children
Post by: onetruekeeper on October 12, 2014, 05:01:00 pm
Most kids in school are not there by choice or consent. Most do NOT want to be taught anything and just want to be left alone although they are under severe pressure from their parents and society to get a "education" to get ahead in life.
Only those kids that show genuine interest and sincerity in wanting to learn what you have to teach should be considered as your students. The rest of them are not worth your time and patience. They are better off teaching themselves at the public library at their own pace and ability to learn.
Title: Re: Thoughts About Teaching Children
Post by: Amaterasu on October 12, 2014, 05:11:51 pm
Most kids in school are not there by choice or consent. Most do NOT want to be taught anything and just want to be left alone although they are under severe pressure from their parents and society to get a "education" to get ahead in life.
Only those kids that show genuine interest and sincerity in wanting to learn what you have to teach should be considered as your students. The rest of them are not worth your time and patience. They are better off teaching themselves at the public library at their own pace and ability to learn.

That is My whole point.  We should be allowing Our children to Self-direct the path of Their learning based on interest.  The whole rigid, "this is what You MUST learn" creppola does not educate.  I memorized a slough of historical dates the night before a test (passed it), but do I remember ANY of it?  Nope.  Time wasted.

But with the web, I have had the chance to follow what I am interested in, and on some subjects I am vastly more educated than most.  Sure, other subjects I cannot hold a candle to Those who are interested in them.  I am not interested and therefore have not pursued the info.  Should I find need of that info, should I become interested, THEN I WILL educate Myself.

But to say that Some should be educated and not Others is absurd.  We are born wanting to learn, but to force a path of "learning" does more damage than it benefits, with many struggling against a deep lack of interest in one area or another and concluding school sucks and learning has no value.

And surely knowing what date George SomeOne did some thing has no value to anyOne but Those fascinated with such info.
Title: Re: Thoughts About Teaching Children
Post by: ArMaP on October 12, 2014, 05:34:43 pm
I memorized a slough of historical dates the night before a test (passed it), but do I remember ANY of it?  Nope.  Time wasted.
That depends, if the goal was to pass the exam then it wasn't wasted time. :)

I once had an exam for which I was supposed to have read a book, so I picked it up the day before the exam (I never studied at night) I read the beginning of one chapter in the middle of the book, and that's what appeared on the exam. ;D

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But with the web, I have had the chance to follow what I am interested in, and on some subjects I am vastly more educated than most.  Sure, other subjects I cannot hold a candle to Those who are interested in them.  I am not interested and therefore have not pursued the info.  Should I find need of that info, should I become interested, THEN I WILL educate Myself.
But should a child that doesn't have enough information be the one responsible for choosing what to study? I don't think that's a good idea.

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We are born wanting to learn, but to force a path of "learning" does more damage than it benefits, with many struggling against a deep lack of interest in one area or another and concluding school sucks and learning has no value.
I think school should teach how to study and the importance of studying and learning, not force information on the children's heads. For example, I have seen many boys without any interest in mathematics but interested in playing games. If the teachers told them (and show them) that math is the basis for almost any computer game maybe some would start to study math with the idea of creating their own games.

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And surely knowing what date George SomeOne did some thing has no value to anyOne but Those fascinated with such info.
Knowing those dates should be considered just as a way of locating things in time, to get an idea of when things happened in relation to other events, like knowing which was first, the French Revolution or the US independence.
Title: Re: Thoughts About Teaching Children
Post by: Pimander on October 12, 2014, 05:35:26 pm
Amy, have you heard of Steiner Schools?  They share some of your ideas.
Title: Re: Thoughts About Teaching Children
Post by: Amaterasu on October 12, 2014, 05:54:36 pm
That depends, if the goal was to pass the exam then it wasn't wasted time. :)

Passing exams is NOT education. 

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But should a child that doesn't have enough information be the one responsible for choosing what to study? I don't think that's a good idea.

Lest You missed it...  I suggest GUIDING children with suggestions - and I include a strong focus on the basics to get Them started.  And with the web, They will encounter stuff that piques Their curiosity to branch out.  But telling a child (S)He is not educated because (S)He did not cram for a test and pass it is utter nonsense.

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I think school should teach how to study and the importance of studying and learning, not force information on the children's heads. For example, I have seen many boys without any interest in mathematics but interested in playing games. If the teachers told them (and show them) that math is the basis for almost any computer game maybe some would start to study math with the idea of creating their own games.

I think that guiding children to find what most interests Them will lessen the likelihood that They will slough off study in favor of games (study will become the game), will open Them up to Their innate desire to learn (rather than closing Them off to it), and of "importance...?"  What "importance" is there if there is no need to add One's meaningful energy to collect a few tokens to be used to survive?  The child defines the "importance."

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Knowing those dates should be considered just as a way of locating things in time, to get an idea of when things happened in relation to other events, like knowing which was first, the French Revolution or the US independence.

And that's fine if One needs to have that info - which, if One needs it, is readily available on the web.
Title: Re: Thoughts About Teaching Children
Post by: Amaterasu on October 12, 2014, 06:00:06 pm
Amy, have you heard of Steiner Schools?  They share some of your ideas.

Nope, Pim, but I will look into Them.  Thanks.  I do think that as long as We have the "elite" running the show through money, such efforts will never be fully effective - but better than the state-sanctioned BS that actually discourages the desire to learn.
Title: Re: Thoughts About Teaching Children
Post by: petrus4 on October 12, 2014, 06:14:33 pm
I wrote the following, three years ago:-

I'm most likely not going to be having children. If I was going to have a child in the current time, I would want to raise them in a very remote place; perhaps northern Western Australia, or a secluded place in the Northern Territory. Their mother and I would be the only two people they would interact with, until they were at least 18 years old. There would be no Internet access.

They would be given an informal classical education, in accordance with the principles described here. I would give them Vivaldi and Beethoven, among others, to listen to from an early age. I would take them to the sea soon after they were able to walk, and walk along the beach with them. I would research the various types of trees, plantlife, and shells there, so I could teach the child their names. I would want the child to have a very strong appreciation of Nature.

There would always be books present within the child's reach, and they would begin to be taught to read at whatever age they began to demonstrate the ability. Aesop and Grimm would be among the earliest authors they would be exposed to, as well as abridged/appropriately simply translated stories from the Hindu epics; the Devi Mahatmaya, and the Ramayana. They would not be exposed to the majority of the mainstream Bible, but there would be some of its' books that I would consider acceptable; Proverbs primarily, and certain elements of the New Testament, such as the Sermon on the Mount.

They would learn about Jesus Christ from the Gospel of the Holy Twelve, and Thomas primarily; and they would learn about him, Ma Durga, and Lord Rama as non-authoritarian examples of positive morality, rather than someone who they would be sent to Hell for not accepting. No choice of Ishta Devata would be made for them; but they would be encouraged to choose one for themselves when they felt ready, although no set timeframe would be put on that, either.

They would never fear monsters under their bed or in their closet, as I would teach them the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram as soon as they were old enough; possibly even at the age of five, depending. The LBRP in my mind is really not difficult.

There would be no exposure to atheism, to the degree that I would ensure that the word was not even known to their vocabulary. In place of Darwinian evolution, they would learn about Kropotkin's theory of mutual aid. The scientific method would later be described, and its' use encouraged; but a warning would also be given to never disregard the value of individual experience.

They would probably begin learning very basic numeracy at around the age of six, beginning with the multiplication tables, up to a coefficient of 12. At the age of around ten, the concept of the Golden Ratio or Phi would be gradually introduced; merely by encouraging them to recognise that things were divisible by three at first, rather than going into the real mathematics.

Also at around ten, they would be started on Tolkien's works; first The Hobbit, and then gradually The Lord of The Rings. They would also be given The Neverending Story, and discussions would be had about the importance of maintaining imagination and visualisation abilities. A couple of years later, perhaps, I would also given them David Eddings' cycles about Sparhawk, as well as Dragonlance. The works of HG Wells and Jules Verne would also be made available, again with initial screening to avoid explicit exposure to atheism.

At the earliest age they were capable of understanding such, (probably 10-13, I suspect) they would also be given explicit exposure to the principles of both permaculture and the UNIX design philosophy; which would reinforce and clarify the earlier emotional value of nature which I would have attempted to instill while they were a toddler. Added to this later, would be The Art of War, The Prince, Casanova's Memoirs, perhaps some Ovid, and the Tao Te Ching. There would, however, have been more simplistic discussions of related topics occurring at relevant times throughout their childhood.

10-13 is also about the age that they would slowly be introduced to the concept of computer-based network engineering, including the practical use of UNIX and the older Internet protocols. It would be at about this age, that the question would probably arise about why they had not been permitted access to mainstream society. The answer given to them would be that that would come, in time; but that I wanted to make sure that I had first given them a sufficiently strong sense of themselves and their integrity first, so that when they went into the outside world, they would have a much better chance of maintaining their physical, mental, moral and spiritual health than the majority of others that they would encounter.

10-13 is probably about the age at which they would begin to be exposed to Greek or Hellenic philosophy as well, such as Aristotle and Plato, but this would be carefully screened in order to ensure continued avoidance of any mention of atheism. At around this age, or perhaps earlier, instruction in such things as sewing/textiles, knot tying, and cooking would begin. It would be emphasised that these were critical survival skills, to be practised regardless of gender. Other early elements of Survivalist philosophy would possibly also be conveyed at this time. Algebra and the Cartesian co-ordinate system would also begin to be taught at around this time, depending on whether or not they were perceived as ready for it.

At 14-16 or so, we would together begin working through Cicero's Golden Dawn self-initiation course, which would of course begin to cover astrology and related topics; as well as an extended study of their own natal chart. There would also be instruction given in Ayurveda, as well as both of us learning together, the manual or older means of discovering our individual doshic profiles, and from there determining appropriate dietary patterns. After some research on my part, we would possibly each craft a bow and arrows together, and go kangaroo hunting; with a successful kill perhaps being viewed as an initiatory experience.

At the age of 18, I would give them leave to make contact with the outside world with my blessing, if such was their desire. I would warn them that contemporary mainstream human society was more degenerate than it had ever been, to the degree of threatening our extinction as a species; and that for the sake of their own survival, they should never, ever forget any of what I had tried to teach them.
Title: Re: Thoughts About Teaching Children
Post by: Wrabbit2000 on October 13, 2014, 12:55:47 am

I think school should teach how to study and the importance of studying and learning, not force information on the children's heads. For example, I have seen many boys without any interest in mathematics but interested in playing games. If the teachers told them (and show them) that math is the basis for almost any computer game maybe some would start to study math with the idea of creating their own games.

There is a lot of truth in that. I was sitting nearby a conversation in the hall a year or more back at the college between an instructor and the graphics dept head. They'd been talking about the game design program they used to have and were considering bringing back. I got the impression they weren't going to, and for the same reason they'd dropped it in the first place.

They had no shortage of people who wanted to be game designers, but could find few who even understood the fact that high level math as a natural ability had to be a given to succeed. It ultimately gave them many failed students in debt, but few to make it worth the resources. The disturbing thing is, the remedial English, comprehension and math classes are adding sections and growing, as a rather sad statement on the job public schools are managing.

Kids are graduating as functional illiterates while being told and coming to believe they are actually average or better. Hand a majority of them a comprehensive skills test from an 1890's grade school standard and I'll bet hard cash that 50% or more fail it to spectacular levels, and not many pass comfortably.  The result among college students wasn't that much better that I saw from in-class experiments.
Title: Re: Thoughts About Teaching Children
Post by: ArMaP on October 13, 2014, 02:50:24 am
Their mother and I would be the only two people they would interact with, until they were at least 18 years old. There would be no Internet access.
Basically, they would have to live in a censoring dictatorship. :)
Title: Re: Thoughts About Teaching Children
Post by: Pimander on October 13, 2014, 03:33:26 am
Petrus, please don't have a child!

Isolating a child would not be a good thing at all.  Some of your reading material is great (esp Eddings, Tolkein and Dragonlance) as is the music but a balanced person must have strong people skills.  You don't get them from only communicating with your parents.  In fact communication with your parents is abnormal compared to that with others.
Title: Re: Thoughts About Teaching Children
Post by: petrus4 on October 13, 2014, 09:28:01 pm
Basically, they would have to live in a censoring dictatorship. :)

I believe that mainstream society is degenerate to the point where it is very possibly going to lead to our extinction as a species.  So, yes; if I had a child, minimising their exposure to it would be a major priority.
Title: Re: Thoughts About Teaching Children
Post by: ArMaP on October 14, 2014, 01:22:55 am
I believe that mainstream society is degenerate to the point where it is very possibly going to lead to our extinction as a species.  So, yes; if I had a child, minimising their exposure to it would be a major priority.
That's close to what the fascist dictator that ruled Portugal for more than 30 years used to say.
Title: Re: Thoughts About Teaching Children
Post by: petrus4 on October 14, 2014, 02:16:59 am
That's close to what the fascist dictator that ruled Portugal for more than 30 years used to say.

I thank you for this; it is a valuable reality check for me.

So the next question becomes, what do we do instead?
Title: Re: Thoughts About Teaching Children
Post by: Amaterasu on October 14, 2014, 02:36:29 am
Um...  I think that was what the OP addressed?  Maybe I misread it.  [smile]
Title: Re: Thoughts About Teaching Children
Post by: Pimander on October 14, 2014, 02:52:45 am
I believe that mainstream society is degenerate to the point where it is very possibly going to lead to our extinction as a species. 
If this is true, isolating all individuals likely to change society will not help at all.
Title: Re: Thoughts About Teaching Children
Post by: ArMaP on October 14, 2014, 05:19:30 am
So the next question becomes, what do we do instead?
I don't have the slightest idea. :)
Title: Re: Thoughts About Teaching Children
Post by: Wrabbit2000 on October 14, 2014, 06:35:28 am
I thank you for this; it is a valuable reality check for me.

So the next question becomes, what do we do instead?

I think the best approach is the one most quickly tossed out these days, and one that takes more work than what IS being done to failure.

We need to re-introduce a concept that has largely been removed and replaced today. Critical Thinking. It isn't useful to teach someone about a thing, then dictate the way they should also feel about it, perceive it and communicate it to others. It's far more useful to have a person who can learn about a thing, draw their own conclusions and then defend them by their OWN logic, without needing to quote from others on that basic thinking.

Of course, these days? Our kids aren't taught critical thinking. That is considered failure to comply and obey, which brings punishment and penalty. That even ends with entire dedicated armies of police, entirely focused on delivering that message by their full time presence inside the school house, across the nation.

Critical thinking would have the student body asking why such things like that are necessary, and in more than a passing acceptance of the status quo. That would be too dangerous to tolerate, it seems.