Pegasus Research Consortium

John Lear's Question and Answers => John Lear's Question and Answer Area => 9/11 Conspiracies => Topic started by: zorgon on February 04, 2015, 08:03:18 pm

Title: A Plane crashed into the Pentagon?
Post by: zorgon on February 04, 2015, 08:03:18 pm
A Plane crashed into the Pentagon?

The recent plane crash in Taiwan illustrates an interesting perspective...

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10897892_1042263922457401_628569283591784234_n.jpg?oh=eb8dbb138d82773ebfb557ba7386ba31&oe=55668592&__gda__=1432256810_64d973813d288cb07d3006581874bf67)

This is the plane

ATR 72-202
Length: 27.17 m (89 ft 2 in)
Wingspan: 27.05 m (88 ft 9 in)

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d2/Aer_Arann_ATR-72_EI-REE_Bristol.jpg/1024px-Aer_Arann_ATR-72_EI-REE_Bristol.jpg)

Boeing 757-223
155 ft 3 in (47.32 m)
124 ft 10 in (38.05 m)

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/22/Icelandair_Boeing_757-256_Wedelstaedt.jpg/1024px-Icelandair_Boeing_757-256_Wedelstaedt.jpg)

The comparison above shows the sheer size we are talking an that one is half the size.  It is hitting the highway taking out street lamps like was claimed at the Pentagon
Title: Re: A Plane crashed into the Pentagon?
Post by: Pimander on February 04, 2015, 08:15:14 pm
A lot of the 9/11 official story smells a funny colour.  Why a false funny coloured flag - if that is what it was - had to be so evil is hard to contemplate.  The fact that British, French and US intelligence are so strongly linked to ISIS/ISIL's emergence also makes me wince.  It is a nasty business!
Title: Re: A Plane crashed into the Pentagon?
Post by: Sgt.Rocknroll on February 04, 2015, 09:02:58 pm
I really don't understand how eye witness testimony of a plane hitting the Pentagon is so easily discarded! Hundreds of people actually saw the plane! I'm sorry but holograms and dimensional shifts and evil men in black suits just giesnt cut it for me. Everything is not a conspiracy! IMHO Q clearance and all! ;)
Title: Re: A Plane crashed into the Pentagon?
Post by: Pimander on February 04, 2015, 09:16:05 pm
It was the stuff involving building 7 that I found suspicious, or I would never have questioned a thing.

Quote
7 Facts about Building 7

1) If fire caused Building 7 to collapse, it would be the first ever fire-induced collapse of a steel-frame high-rise.

2) Building 7’s collapse was not mentioned in the 9/11 Commission Report.

3) According to a Zogby poll in 2006, 43% of Americans did not know about Building 7.

4) It took the federal government seven years to conduct an investigation and issue a report for Building 7.

5) 1,700+ architects and engineers have signed a petition calling for a new investigation into the destruction of Building 7, specifying that it should include a full inquiry into the possible use of explosives.

6) Numerous witnesses say the possibility of demolishing Building 7 was widely discussed by emergency personnel at the scene and advocated by the building’s owner.

7) Building 7 housed several intelligence and law enforcement agencies, and the NYC Office of Emergency Management’s Emergency Operations Center, more commonly known as “Giuliani’s Bunker”.
http://rememberbuilding7.org/7-facts-about-building-7/

I have also heard witnesses say they heard explosions in building 7 while being evacuated.  Smells a funny colour to me.


ETA:  I agree that not everything is a conspiracy.  On the other hand there are many conspiracies and it does not have to be one that links them all - which many "conspiracy theorists" try to do with frequently hilarious results. ;)
Title: Re: A Plane crashed into the Pentagon?
Post by: ArMaP on February 05, 2015, 04:26:35 am
The comparison above shows the sheer size we are talking an that one is half the size.  It is hitting the highway taking out street lamps like was claimed at the Pentagon
I don't think it's a good comparison, because of several things; the aeroplane in Taiwan was closer to the camera, the quality of the camera is higher in this new video (as expected) and today there are much more cameras than 13 1/2 years ago.
Title: Re: A Plane crashed into the Pentagon?
Post by: ArMaP on February 05, 2015, 04:27:56 am
I really don't understand how eye witness testimony of a plane hitting the Pentagon is so easily discarded! Hundreds of people actually saw the plane!
The funny thing is that some of the people that ignore the witnesses in that case accept witnesses testimony in other cases.  :P
Title: Re: A Plane crashed into the Pentagon?
Post by: Ellirium113 on February 05, 2015, 05:44:26 am
When is a plane not a plane?
(http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r553/Ellirium113/0cb82dbdcda47e2L_zpsyic45aff.jpg)
Title: Re: A Plane crashed into the Pentagon?
Post by: WarToad on February 05, 2015, 06:00:17 am
I really don't understand how eye witness testimony of a plane hitting the Pentagon is so easily discarded! Hundreds of people actually saw the plane! I'm sorry but holograms and dimensional shifts and evil men in black suits just giesnt cut it for me. Everything is not a conspiracy! IMHO Q clearance and all! ;)

Cherry picking.  When you're predisposed to believing "something else" happened, you ignore the proof positive and you cling to tiny fragments that might support your alternate theory, as far flung as it might be.
Title: Re: A Plane crashed into the Pentagon?
Post by: ArMaP on February 05, 2015, 06:01:52 am
When is a plane not a plane?
(http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r553/Ellirium113/0cb82dbdcda47e2L_zpsyic45aff.jpg)

When it's Photoshopped? ;)
Title: Re: A Plane crashed into the Pentagon?
Post by: micjer on February 05, 2015, 06:31:16 am
(http://i562.photobucket.com/albums/ss64/Micjer_2009/pentagon.jpg) (http://s562.photobucket.com/user/Micjer_2009/media/pentagon.jpg.html)

(http://i562.photobucket.com/albums/ss64/Micjer_2009/pcamf5.jpg) (http://s562.photobucket.com/user/Micjer_2009/media/pcamf5.jpg.html)


(http://i562.photobucket.com/albums/ss64/Micjer_2009/pentanimorig-1.gif) (http://s562.photobucket.com/user/Micjer_2009/media/pentanimorig-1.gif.html)
Title: Re: A Plane crashed into the Pentagon?
Post by: micjer on February 05, 2015, 06:38:47 am
(http://i562.photobucket.com/albums/ss64/Micjer_2009/cruise.jpg) (http://s562.photobucket.com/user/Micjer_2009/media/cruise.jpg.html)


(http://i562.photobucket.com/albums/ss64/Micjer_2009/cruise2.jpg) (http://s562.photobucket.com/user/Micjer_2009/media/cruise2.jpg.html)


(http://i562.photobucket.com/albums/ss64/Micjer_2009/tomahawk-ani.gif) (http://s562.photobucket.com/user/Micjer_2009/media/tomahawk-ani.gif.html)
Title: Re: A Plane crashed into the Pentagon?
Post by: Pimander on February 05, 2015, 08:05:15 am
The funny thing is that some of the people that ignore the witnesses in that case accept witnesses testimony in other cases.  :P
That's why corroborating evidence is vital.  Witnesses can be mistaken.  Memory is effected by what you are told after an event too.

It is easy to see something, then see on TV a report that it was a plane (or UFO).  The report then influences the memory of the witness.  The influence tends to be greater when there is mass hysteria about something (like 9/11 or a UFO wave).

I am not speculating about witness testimony, this has all been proven in scientific research.  SO even though witness testimony is useful, it is also limited.
Title: Re: A Plane crashed into the Pentagon?
Post by: jammer2012 on February 05, 2015, 09:34:05 am
You know its funny when you talk about what people remember on 9/11. About half of my friends and acquaintances say they saw a plane hit the first tower live on TV. Now TV stations didn't start to show live footage of the towers until after the first plane hit. I personally believe that a lot people have false memories of 9/11.
Title: Re: A Plane crashed into the Pentagon?
Post by: Pimander on February 05, 2015, 10:01:51 am
Precisely.  What they actually saw was mobile phone footage of the first plane hitting later on in the day after the event.  Initially they saw smoke coming out of the first tower.

I don't know, but is it entirely implausible that people think they saw a plane hit the pentagon because of the hysteria about the planes hitting the twin towers?
Title: Re: A Plane crashed into the Pentagon?
Post by: burntheships on February 05, 2015, 01:01:39 pm
In the recreation of any scene, it is imperative to take into account
all evidence to determine what really happened.

Eyewittness testimony surrounding 9/11 and The Pentagon is important,
thing is much of it does not support the theory that a plane hit the
building, rather the opposite.

What about building 7, no plane there either....and I think some of the strangest
aspects of all of it was how the Saudi pilots were trained, and those who
were in association with them before 9/11.

Title: Re: A Plane crashed into the Pentagon?
Post by: Sgt.Rocknroll on February 05, 2015, 09:36:12 pm
The topic is not bldg 7 but the pentagon! There were several hundred people on the ground that day that saw the plane hit. Puesdo info from people that weren't there is useless. The one camera at the gate shows the impact. This was not a sophisticated camera but a guard fate camera. You can clearly see a portion of the tail. People want to believe in the evil gob meant scenario. That's my story & I'm sticking to it Q clearance & all. ;)
Title: Re: A Plane crashed into the Pentagon?
Post by: burntheships on February 05, 2015, 10:16:09 pm
Na, we all know it was not the gob ment!
Its the other guys, just look at what went on in the basement.

 ;)



Title: Re: A Plane crashed into the Pentagon?
Post by: zorgon on February 06, 2015, 12:02:15 am
Jet fuel burns ORANGE

Missile explosion burns RED

Shanksville explosion was RED Plane disappeared into a small hole  ONE engine found  NO debris on ground to account for that big plane :P

Pentagon explosion was RED  ONE hole punch ONE engine found NO debris on ground to account for that big plane :P

Tower explosion was ORANGE  burnt up in 7.5 seconds and they was cool enough for Edna to wave at us

So Mr Q Clearance  chew on that :P

If I flew a plane just above the Pentagon and released a missile people would remember an airplane and some would have seen the missile

Which is what the eye witness reports confirm

That is my story and I am sticking to it and I have no clearance :P
Title: Re: A Plane crashed into the Pentagon?
Post by: ArMaP on February 06, 2015, 03:57:39 am
Jet fuel burns ORANGE

Missile explosion burns RED
If they are filmed with the same camera or with cameras with more or less the same characteristics. :)

When you have a professional TV camera and the equivalent to a web cam (probably with auto white balance) you cannot really compare colours as close as orange and red.

PS: I know, I know, another discussion about colours. ;D
Title: Re: A Plane crashed into the Pentagon?
Post by: zorgon on February 06, 2015, 04:08:27 am
Not going there :P
Title: Re: A Plane crashed into the Pentagon?
Post by: Pimander on February 08, 2015, 09:06:05 am
OK, I don't know, BTS thinks she knows, Zorgon knows, Sarge knows and ArMaP is just sceptical about everything.  But none of us agree entirely.  ::) :P :-X
Title: Re: A Plane crashed into the Pentagon?
Post by: Aemilius on February 28, 2015, 02:39:57 pm
OK, I don't know, BTS thinks she knows, Zorgon knows, Sarge knows and ArMaP is just sceptical about everything.  But none of us agree entirely.  ::) :P :-X

Entirely predictable, there's simply not enough scientifically verifiable data to work with (eyewitness accounts and five frames of video) that could lead to any conclusive finding of fact as to what actually transpired.... too many variables.

Quote from: Pimander
It was the stuff involving building 7 that I found suspicious....


Quote from: burntheships
What about building 7, no plane there either....

Looks like someones intuition is working.... WTC7 is the key that unlocks 9/11.
Title: Re: A Plane crashed into the Pentagon?
Post by: Aemilius on February 28, 2015, 02:45:17 pm
The topic is not bldg 7 but the pentagon!

Oops, just saw that.... maybe I should start another thread.
Title: Re: A Plane crashed into the Pentagon?
Post by: zorgon on February 28, 2015, 03:52:11 pm
Puesdo info from people that weren't there is useless.

Agreed but you don't have to have been there to evaluate the evidence after

Quote
The topic is not bldg 7 but the pentagon! There were several hundred people on the ground that day that saw the plane hit.

There is also something called 'selective thinking' This is where you cherry pick information that fits what you NEED to believe.

The fact that Building 7 fell with no plane hitting it and very small fires IS part of the whole picture. If just that one fact is not correct then it all falls apart. As for the Pentagon there were just as many people who dais they saw a missile and said so on the early news reports.

There was one engine found that punched a hole and that engine was consistent with a global hawk missile

There was almost no debris on the lawn  Every other  plane crash in history has tons of debris from luggage that explodes all over the place. But at the pentagon people were walking around and there was very little debris

One piece was highlighted  Showed part of the logo  but that piece was proven to be too small to fit the real logo

The wings left NO MARK on the building  Where did the second engine go? Did it all dematerialize?

Quote
The one camera at the gate shows the impact. This was not a sophisticated camera but a guard fate camera. You can clearly see a portion of the tail.

No you can only CLEARLY see it if you want to see it. The video also matches the tail of a global hawk  I saw an overlay on YT will have to find it But why can we not see all the other films recorded that day?

Quote
People want to believe in the evil gob meant scenario.

And other people desperately need to belief in the official version... no matter how crazy it is and doesn't obey laws of physics

The truth is somewhere between  8)

How ANYONE can look at this first responded image of Shanksville and tell me that an airliner disappeared into this hole without a trace, with no debris and only a local volunteer fire truck to respond completely boggles my mind

(http://nomoretyranny.org/gallery/gallery3-4.jpg)

I can only assume that people are truly brainwashed easily or that humanity is losing the ability to think

Quote
That's my story & I'm sticking to it Q clearance & all. ;)

You are welcome to remain in your comfort zone and I am sure nothing will change your mind.  I just find it fascinating how easily people will toss science and logic out the window and except what they are told

The towers in Dubai recently burned longer and hotter than 9/11 It rained down showers of molten glass yet the steel remained intact  It did not bend  it did not melt it did not collapse 

9/11 the jet fuel was burned up in a fireball that lasted 7-8 SECONDS (I timed it) There were no showers of molten glass and a lady stood in the raging steel melting hot hole minutes after the crash

In Dubai that tower burned white hoty for a very long time raining down molten glass yet no damage to the steel core

Glass is quartz silica and high glass transition melt temperature of over 1200 °C (2192 °F)
Iron, out of the ground, melts at around 1510 degrees C (2750°F)
Steel often melts at around 1370 degrees C (2500°F).

So tell me again how molten steel makes sense at 9/11 when it has NEVER happened before and did not happen here

[youtube]KmrVe3CwYVw[/youtube]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmrVe3CwYVw


Title: Re: A Plane crashed into the Pentagon?
Post by: zorgon on February 28, 2015, 03:52:47 pm
We are just going to have to agree to disagree :P
Title: Re: A Plane crashed into the Pentagon?
Post by: Sgt.Rocknroll on February 28, 2015, 06:00:21 pm
We are just going to have to agree to disagree :P

And we clearly do.....this time ;)
Title: Re: A Plane crashed into the Pentagon?
Post by: Aemilius on February 28, 2015, 07:15:50 pm
Sorry boys, I'm afraid agreeing to disagree about a well known fundamental Law of Physics, namely, the Law of Conservation of Energy, just won't do. It's just not allowed. When it comes to the fundamental Laws of Physics, there can be no "agreement to disagree", in fact, there can be no disagreement at all.... it's simply the Law. I think the sooner we all get used to that the better.

For empirically verifiable confirmation of that, see "WTC7.... Turning The Key", it's all right there, for those who can see....

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=7962.msg110396#msg110396