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Author Topic: Intense scrutiny of the Economy and a Solution  (Read 10373 times)

Offline Ellirium113

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Re: Intense scrutiny of the Economy and a Solution
« Reply #30 on: November 26, 2012, 04:53:13 pm »
Quote
thats why i think the stockmarket is a scam controlled by the gov.i think it is purposefully manipulated through high speed trades to suck investors dry slowly.

Indeed...Humans are too slow to control this...we just sit back and hang on to that kill switch. Check this out...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENWVRcMGDoU&feature=player_embedded#![/youtube]

I think there is a lot more shady deals being made through unregulated money exchanges etc. as well... Reflect back to the many Bearer Bond scandals.

Quote
“The global shadow banking system …grew rapidly before the crisis, rising from $26 trillion in 2002 to $62 trillion in 2007. The size of the total system declined slightly in 2008 but increased subsequently to reach $67 trillion in 2011", which is equivalent to "111% of the aggregated GDP of 11 jurisdictions and the euro area,” the FSB reports.

http://rt.com/business/news/banking-shadow-business-operations-071/
« Last Edit: November 26, 2012, 04:56:19 pm by Ellirium113 »

Offline robomont

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Re: Intense scrutiny of the Economy and a Solution
« Reply #31 on: November 26, 2012, 07:41:49 pm »
inflation happens quick if everybody got a raise.in two years the economy would be boiling.
the numbers sound good but they dont add up because of illegal immigrants.
they keep wages low by absorbing the inflation that is needed.
i saw this happen three times in my life.
this is why the game is rigged.the rich dont play fair.
so once the poor know this they turn into democrats/socialist,i know i have.
if we cant control the billionaires greed then theres no sense playing the game.

so what happens now?
game over.
capitolism dies.
moral of country falters.
secession regains traction as congress stays deadlocked.
states become stronger and begin to have border squabbles.the great nation of texico is created.
a white flight to the midwest occurs.
most of the money follows and a new country forms around chicago.

thats as far out as i can envision.just a theory.
ive never been much for rules.
being me has its priviledges.

Dumbledore

Offline undo11

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Re: Intense scrutiny of the Economy and a Solution
« Reply #32 on: November 27, 2012, 05:35:52 am »
elli

that video is depressing.  are people still investing in stocks?  i dunno why anyone would want to when it's proven that they will deliberately sell you bad stuff, tell you it's good, deliberately make the situation so bad the whole thing will crash and then take all your investments.   washington dc actually rubber stamped them stealing the people of the usa's life savings and pension funds and retirements, then to add insult to injury charged us taxes to keep the thieves from losing their shirts in the disaster they created.   we voted back in the guys who rubber stamped it and punished us for having any money.

worse yet, when they were brought before a congressional hearing, they promised they wouldn't do it again, and for some strange reason, congress okay'ed them to continue on with the same lack of regulation.

any american who invests in stocks has to be out of their mind.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2012, 05:49:13 am by undo11 »
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Offline Pimander

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Re: Intense scrutiny of the Economy and a Solution
« Reply #33 on: November 27, 2012, 05:49:43 am »
that video is depressing.  are people still investing in stocks?  i dunno why anyone would want to when it's proven that they will deliberately sell you bad stuff, tell you it's good, deliberately make the situation so bad the whole thing will crash and then take all your investments.
If the big companies were publicly owned and they didn't stand to make millions from the activity they wouldn't be able to do this.

Offline undo11

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Re: Intense scrutiny of the Economy and a Solution
« Reply #34 on: November 27, 2012, 06:22:12 am »
If the big companies were publicly owned and they didn't stand to make millions from the activity they wouldn't be able to do this.

if our pres and friends didn't let them do it, they wouldn't do this. there were laws in place before bush removed them, to stop this from happening.
it's awful. the repubs get bills passed that the dems then use to "teach us a lesson."  they all get richer and everyone else loses their shirt. 
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Offline Eighthman

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Re: Intense scrutiny of the Economy and a Solution
« Reply #35 on: November 27, 2012, 06:31:47 am »
I'm waiting to get back into stocks. Why?

Because I have all these green pieces of paper lying around and I'm afraid they may become almost worthless - so, at least I might own a piece of some business or resource.

Welcome to 2012.  There's little or nothing to invest in.

Offline Pimander

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Re: Intense scrutiny of the Economy and a Solution
« Reply #36 on: November 27, 2012, 07:11:07 am »
if our pres and friends didn't let them do it, they wouldn't do this. there were laws in place before bush removed them, to stop this from happening.
But why is it right that people can make millions by not generating any wealth?  Surely that is madness?

Real businesses generate tangible benefits to real people.  Not people trading with bits of paper and numbers on a computer.

Offline Pimander

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Re: Intense scrutiny of the Economy and a Solution
« Reply #37 on: November 27, 2012, 07:15:05 am »
I'm waiting to get back into stocks. Why?

Because I have all these green pieces of paper lying around and I'm afraid they may become almost worthless - so, at least I might own a piece of some business or resource.

Welcome to 2012.  There's little or nothing to invest in.
There is something to invest in.  Use the money to start and run a business that provides something people want or need.  Or invest in a small to medium sized business that does this.  That is generating wealth and you deserve to make a profit from it.

Trading bits of paper that say you own something you will never see, then buying different bits of paper that say you own something else is nonsense economics.  You have not generated wealth by buying stocks/shares so why should you profit from it?

It is the people creating real services and goods that earn and create any real wealth.  People trading bits of paper generates no wealth for society.  It is a form of parasitism legitimised by a corrupt and morally redundant system!
« Last Edit: November 27, 2012, 07:18:33 am by Pimander »

Offline undo11

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Re: Intense scrutiny of the Economy and a Solution
« Reply #38 on: November 27, 2012, 07:55:05 am »
But why is it right that people can make millions by not generating any wealth?  Surely that is madness?

Real businesses generate tangible benefits to real people.  Not people trading with bits of paper and numbers on a computer.

what are you saying? that it's my fault they stole from old people, retired police and fireman, retirees of every stripe and color, because i'm complaining about bush removing regulations and obama's admin allowing it to continue? 

you're not making any sense.
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Offline undo11

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Re: Intense scrutiny of the Economy and a Solution
« Reply #39 on: November 27, 2012, 07:57:51 am »
if i'm reading this correctly, the bulk of people who lost their life savings, retirements and pensions, were not stock market people but people who had put their money in a bank account!!!!  they lost their shirts because their monies were invested in banks controlled somehow by lehman brothers that bush's financial advisor, deliberately let fail to teach the american people a lesson.

what was the f'in lesson?   that if you work all your life and put your money in a savings account that you deserve to lose your shirt? ? ? help me out here!!!!!!!
« Last Edit: November 27, 2012, 07:59:48 am by undo11 »
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Offline petrus4

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Re: Intense scrutiny of the Economy and a Solution
« Reply #40 on: November 27, 2012, 08:13:47 am »
what are you saying? that it's my fault they stole from old people, retired police and fireman, retirees of every stripe and color, because i'm complaining about bush removing regulations and obama's admin allowing it to continue? 

you're not making any sense.

Speaking of investments, another thing that is good to invest in is yourself. Learn a skill, or create something that can be bartered. That is a tangible investment. Usury (borrowing and lending at interest) is what has caused all the problems in your current system.

Your government is in debt to foreign creditors. Everyone is in debt to someone. This is all because somewhere down the line, usury began to be used. In the most sacred religious texts on Earth, it has been one of the biggest evils! It is through the door of usury that much corruption happens.

If you become more self-responsible and affiliate yourself with others who are choosing the same, you will always have what you need when you need it. Always. It is a very different way to live. Eventually, this can be one of the roads that leads to the Pleiadian Equal Value System.

For those of you who do not know what we are talking about regarding the Pleiadian Equal Value System, it is very simple. It may even sound too simplistic.

Everything in our society is equal to everything else. We'll use an analogy. I can go into a "supermarket" and get my groceries. I won't purchase them, I'll simply walk out with them. However, whenever someone comes to me for my service, I give them my service. This allows everyone on my planet to do what excites them and not worry that they can't make a living at it.

Your value system now is totally arbitrary. In community, those arbitrary values go out the window. You can't keep changing them to suit your purposes. We view our planet as one holistic unit.

Once we were speaking to someone about this and they were very critical.

They said,

    "Well, who is taking out the garbage, since no one could possible be excited to do that?"

No, no one is excited to take out the garbage. However, there have been plenty of people (inventors) who were very excited to invent a device to get rid of the garbage!

That is a symptom of a holistic organism.

Where there is a need, there is someone to fulfill the need. This is how our society works. We know this is very alien to you. Look at how many hungry inventors there are on your world who want to invent alternate fuel sources. There are people who want to invent new forms of waste disposal. There are so many people who want to invent things to take away the displeasing things that you have to deal with.

If you suddenly let go of your definitions and your rigid constraints and learned to follow your excitement every day, you would create this! It is just a matter of time until you do. Right now there are still too many people hoarding power, money, and living in fear.

-- Sasha
"Sacred cows make the tastiest hamburgers."
        — Abbie Hoffman

Offline undo11

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Re: Intense scrutiny of the Economy and a Solution
« Reply #41 on: November 27, 2012, 08:31:09 am »
petrus

well i have several skills but i'm really not allowed, for one reason or another, to succeed at using any of them. lol

for example, i am pretty good at gaming theory. i have a good imagination, plenty of experience, a great pool of gamers to draw ideas and criticisms from, decent writing skills,  nice vocabulary, drive and ambition to get the thing going, art skills (hampered by lack of funds to have the correct software and also, i have vision damage (can't see small errors), some musical ability,  capability at writing poetry, and etc.  however, i cannot do algorithms.  my brain simply will not do math, so i can't do the programming.

i bug people and beg for programmers and literally no one who has that capacity, will help unless i pay them large sums of money, which i don't have.  the guy who made world of warcraft, guild wars, battlenet, and etc, managed to convince programmers to work for him for free, using a contract that makes alot of sense.  so i have that incorporated into the plan as well, still no response. 

and that is not all.  when it was clear i could make alot of money off my star gate books, i was warned repeatedly by religious and non-religious people alike that i would be viewed as a hoaxer and rip-off artist, because my subject was too controversial. so i gave up that idea.

when i tried to branch out into music (i wrote my own music and sang it too), i was told i was too old. i was in my early 30s.  (just to remind you, there are people in their 50s getting into the music business even today, and some who are still popular and they're in their 60s and in some cases 70s).

i have been swimming against the stream since i found out i could swim and eveyrone and his uncle has either resisted allowing me to use my skills, or
convinced me not to in my own best interest. 

this is not a pity pot, it's reality for me!  so i don't want to hear any more of those sasha pep talks, supposedly from aliens in some idealic society on the other side of the universe.   it ain't happening! 
« Last Edit: November 27, 2012, 08:37:14 am by undo11 »
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Offline Pimander

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Re: Intense scrutiny of the Economy and a Solution
« Reply #42 on: November 27, 2012, 09:12:19 am »
what are you saying? that it's my fault they stole from old people, retired police and fireman, retirees of every stripe and color, because i'm complaining about bush removing regulations and obama's admin allowing it to continue? 

you're not making any sense.
I'm not saying anything about you.  I'm saying that trading stocks and shares does not generate wealth.  That means that if people are wealthy through doing so, they are basically taking a share of goods and services they don't contribute to providing.  It is a form of parasitism.

Other people generate wealth in the form of goods and services by working (in a job that is NEEDED).  People who are rich from trading stocks and shares contribute nothing to the wealth of society as they produce no goods or services YET THEY CAN CONSUME MORE THROUGH THEIR MASSIVE SHARE OF MONEY.  It isn't fair.  They are feeding off goods and services they do not provide themselves in a parasitic manner.

I am saying it stinks, is one of the biggest problems in the world and responsible for social injustice.  I'm not blaming a particular person, it is the system we live in.  We should change it because it is grotesque.  What did your beloved Jesus do to the money lenders?  IT STINKS!
« Last Edit: November 27, 2012, 09:14:09 am by Pimander »

Offline undo11

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Re: Intense scrutiny of the Economy and a Solution
« Reply #43 on: November 27, 2012, 09:21:27 am »
pim

well just so you know, i did not invest any money in stocks, nor did i lose any from the crash, because we have never had enough money to even entertain the idea.  i'm just fussin because of all the damage it did to middle america.
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Offline Pimander

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Re: Intense scrutiny of the Economy and a Solution
« Reply #44 on: November 27, 2012, 09:30:40 am »
pim

well just so you know, i did not invest any money in stocks, nor did i lose any from the crash, because we have never had enough money to even entertain the idea.  i'm just fussin because of all the damage it did to middle america.
Eighth man said they were planning to go back into stocks as they are scared of savings being worthless.  I don't see either of you as Parasites in case you misunderstand me.   I sympathise with both your thoughts but your worries are because of the system as opposed to the system being the solution.

In the final analysis, it would be far fairer if all wealth (goods and services) was spent by real working people and small business owners rather than fat cats.  Obviously some people can't contribute for various reasons (age, illness, disability, bereavement and kids) and society has a duty to provide for them but it should not have to keep a wealthy elite that contribute nothing but own nearly everything.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2012, 09:41:05 am by Pimander »

 


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