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Author Topic: Further thoughts on Bob Lazars anti gravity theory.  (Read 9649 times)

Offline astr0144

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Re: Further thoughts on Bob Lazars anti gravity theory.
« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2018, 05:39:24 pm »
Compared to some members on PRC who may be keen on Sci Fi and Star Trek and are keen followers of the series...as well as having good understanding and memory often what the series episodes are about... I have seen it on and off over some years but only used to watch it for entertainment mainly when it was the original series.. with Kirk and Spock... My brother however was a keen Treky and read a lot of sci fi and probably had a good understanding often to understand what each episode was more about in detail or how the Science theory parts  (Fact or Fiction) may have related more to it..

On having a quick browse about StarTrek..  I am surprised to find out that there was not as many episodes in the Original series as I had thought... so I must have watched a very lot of repeats over the years and not realised it..

what I mean by that is that I thought that the original series had gone on for over 10 years or maybe many more. since the mid 1960s.. but it had ony ran for 3 years initially followed by 22 further episodes..

(Probably also as I recall when it was mentioned when it was  25 yrs or more since it was 1st shown)

I recall they did so many movies mainly with the original known same main cast..

but I did not realise that it was not until 1987 until the next series "Star Trek Next Generation" that you refer to started.

I really cannot believe that it was that long ago... and I just have no idea where time has gone...
I seemed to think when I read your post that it was only 10 to 15 yrs ago... NOT 31 yrs ago..


Quote
Star Trek is an American media franchise based on the science fiction television series created by Gene Roddenberry. The first television series, simply called Star Trek and now referred to as "The Original Series", debuted in 1966 and aired for three seasons on the television network NBC. It followed the interstellar adventures of Captain James T. Kirk (William Shatner) and his crew aboard the starship USS Enterprise, a space exploration vessel, built by the United Federation of Planets in the twenty-third century. The Star Trek canon of the franchise includes The Original Series, an animated series, five spin-off television series, the film franchise, and further adaptations in several media.

In creating Star Trek, Roddenberry was inspired by the Horatio Hornblower novels, the satirical book Gulliver's Travels, and by works of western genre such as the television series Wagon Train. These adventures continued in the 22-episode Star Trek: The Animated Series and six feature films. Four spin-off television series were eventually produced: Star Trek: The Next Generation followed the crew of a new starship Enterprise set a century after the original series; Star Trek: Deep Space Nine and Star Trek: Voyager set contemporaneously with The Next Generation; and Star Trek: Enterprise set before the original series in the early days of human interstellar travel. The most recent Star Trek TV series, entitled Star Trek: Discovery,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek

SO after saying all that ! .... Upon reading what you refer to about the Star Trek generations series that you ref to..
I had thought that chances are that Anti grvaity would have been mentioned at one time or the other in the original series also...  unless you know different !

From what you have said.... do you know if what you refer to is correct in the being the 1st or maybe only time that Anti Gravity was mentioned in any Star Trek series ?

And in that episode.... How would you say  that it refers to Bob Lazars Anti Gravity Theory, Does it refer to Element 115 ?
or some similar theory..

Star Trek the next generation Episode 2 in 1988.... that it was series 2..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation

is that the episode that you mean ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Where_Silence_Has_Lease




I had a quick browse thru it and could only see mentioned of Worm  or Black Holes or warp Drive..
I never noticed anything that related to Bobs theory was was obvious to me. unless there was some other mention related to Gravity..

What time frame is it that you may refer to ?


I was aware of the Billy Meier Photo but I have not really studied his material as earlier on when I became aware of his material,  my impression from others who refered to his story... did not make me really think it was worth while...

so I assume that suggests that you do not believe Billy Meires material or think his photos are made up or a hoax !  ?

I could not recall the main details in ref with John Lear to Billy Meiers tape..
but reading A51s comments I think I follow what your suggesting..that at that time John had access to many UFO related things... and it was before the Internet as we know it today.. Was John one of the only persons at that time who may have had access to such information or materials ?

I could see your point about Gene Huff if one was not more aware of other things about his connection to the story..

BUT was there other Contacts that Gene could have gone to to get that Billy Meier tapes...or could he have just obtained a  photo... did it need to be the full tape film of it.. ?  why purely would it be down to John Lear ?

If the story was a hoax... would they have needed to include Gene Huff in it ? as I dont think I really know why that would be so... unless say he was someone at the time also some experts at photography or film developement in ref to having filmed Bobs Craft  an develeoped the film..when all 3 were said to have witnessed the craft..

I can also see your point how the Billy Meier craft looks similar to Bobs Sports model..If one was thinking the way that I think that your indicating in ref to such related facts.. then.. you may have a valid point..and some may still  think that way.

In ref to the Photo that you refer to... On a quick search I cannot find any specific date ref to it..
but in the wikapedia article it seems he had connections to UFOs between 1942 to 1975...

Do you know what date that  that Billy Meire UFO photo was said to be taken or created ? or is it from the Tape film ? if when was the tape filmed ?  Was some years before Bob Lazar came on the scene or just prior in the late 1980s ?

I will say that Bobs Sports Model craft... looks  more modern in design than I had imagined when I first saw it.. than I would have expected a general UFO to look like...

Or maybe we should expect that if UFOs are for real.. that they should look even more modern  futuristic loooking in design that maybe many craft that get witnessed..

I dont really know if there has been many other witnessed craft other than Bobs and Billys that had similar appearance ?

But after all that has been mentioned... Does that still suggest there is some issue with Bobs Story ?

If it was suggested back in 1988 in Star Trek for the 1st time .. say that it made a ref to something similar to Bobs Craft theories with say something similar to Element 115... then that is of interest..

but is that to say its suggesting Bobs storys made up , or could it also be that those in charge wanted to release certain facts about it, as a type of slow release prior to Bob informing the World about it..

As some researchers believe that those involved in  the UFO World ..who say monitor UFO information in ref  to the public.. do at times let the public become  more aware of certain UFO facts or technology..say in a slow to gradual way..in stages or steps..

If possibly so.... its still seems hard to prove either way..

I still think A51s Video footage seems some of the more conclusive evidence to Bobs Story that to me anyway seems to match what some would imagine to match Bobs reports on the crafts activity.. based upon things that I have researched and can recall so far..

Quote
Meier claims his extraterrestrial encounters began in 1942, at the age of five, when he met an elderly Plejaren man named "Sfath".[8] After Sfath's death in 1953, Meier said, he began communicating with an extraterrestrial woman (though not a Plejaren) called "Asket". All contacts ceased in 1964, he said, then resumed on January 28, 1975, when he met "Semjase",[8] the granddaughter of Sfath, and shortly thereafter another Plejaren man called "Ptaah". Other Plejarens, including a woman named "Nera", have since allegedly joined the dialog as well. Photographs of these two women were later proved to have been faked.[1][9]

Meier founded a religious movement based on his alleged contacts with Semjase, called the "Freie Interessengemeinschaft für Grenz- und Geisteswissenschaften und Ufologiestudien" (Free Community of Interests for the Border and Spiritual Sciences and Ufological Studies) in the late 1970s and established his "Semjase Silver Star Center". The movement's headquarters is in Switzerland.[

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Meier



Quote
Bobs Anti gravity theory can be seen on Star Trek Next generation Episode 2 1988. Anti-Matter reactor propulsion system what a coincidence.

What about when Gene Huff asked John for an tape exchange for a real estate appraisal?? Who would think a Lear would need a real estate appraisal in 1988 ? ?

Well lets see it wen t like this " Hey John I'm Gene Huff I need a copy of the UFO Tapes (Billy Meier tapes) ?" ok ... Next thing you know Bobs Sport Model looks identical to Billy Meiers pics Lets have a look:

« Last Edit: June 21, 2018, 06:22:18 pm by astr0144 »

Offline zorgon

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Re: Further thoughts on Bob Lazars anti gravity theory.
« Reply #16 on: June 21, 2018, 08:04:34 pm »
What about when Gene Huff asked John for an tape exchange for a real estate appraisal?? Who would think a Lear would need a real estate appraisal in 1988 ? ?

It's called looking to refinance the mortgage :P  people assume because John inherited that big house that he has money... well he doesn't... so he took a loan out on the house, which is why he is in trouble today

He was not included in the rest of the fortune, being the black sheep of the family :P

Offline zorgon

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Re: Further thoughts on Bob Lazars anti gravity theory.
« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2018, 08:07:42 pm »
Why?

Already explained why in several threads :P

Offline zorgon

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Re: Further thoughts on Bob Lazars anti gravity theory.
« Reply #18 on: June 21, 2018, 08:09:37 pm »
I think Zorgon has a good point with the Star Trek reference.  How many concussions did the crew suffer with all that being thrown around?

I am assuming the film makers did that for dramatic effect LOL  otherwise space travel would look boring.

Just like space ship fighters would not fly in arcs... they would move in vectors

Offline zorgon

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Re: Further thoughts on Bob Lazars anti gravity theory.
« Reply #19 on: June 21, 2018, 08:12:27 pm »
Well lets see it wen t like this " Hey John I'm Gene Huff I need a copy of the UFO Tapes (Billy Meier tapes) ?" ok ... Next thing you know Bobs Sport Model looks identical to Billy Meiers pics Lets have a look:



ONE MAJOR FLAW  in your theory...

THIS was Billy Meiers saucer :P


Offline A51Watcher

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Re: Further thoughts on Bob Lazars anti gravity theory.
« Reply #20 on: June 21, 2018, 08:24:53 pm »
Quote
Quote from: zorgon on June 16, 2018, 03:24:08 PM
2) it would appear blurry or almost invisible by day, and glowing at night, the color and intensity of that glow being a factor of speed and power level.


Why?


Gravity lensing caused by the amplified gravity field and neon light effect from the voltage on the outside of the craft.


« Last Edit: June 21, 2018, 08:31:04 pm by A51Watcher »

Offline zorgon

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Re: Further thoughts on Bob Lazars anti gravity theory.
« Reply #21 on: June 21, 2018, 08:41:26 pm »
Gravity lensing caused by the amplified gravity field and neon light effect from the voltage on the outside of the craft.







Offline A51Watcher

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Re: Further thoughts on Bob Lazars anti gravity theory.
« Reply #22 on: June 21, 2018, 10:01:03 pm »








Yup.

The field lens created between the craft and the observer -




And the amount of distortion seen, varies in real time in relation to the amount of distortion being produced by the pulses producing the field.


« Last Edit: June 21, 2018, 11:01:22 pm by A51Watcher »

Offline astr0144

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Re: Further thoughts on Bob Lazars anti gravity theory.
« Reply #23 on: June 22, 2018, 03:36:26 am »
I mentioned that I have not as yet studied in much detail about Billy Meier or whats UFOs he claimed to have seen..

On doing doing quick searchs however...  there does seem many a picture or website that relates to the one Bigpappy posted..

So "Z" why is that not the same one as one of Billy Meiers as you indicate ?

Could not the legs it lands on ,only appear when landing / landed.. and are not seen during the flight..

although it would seem that the the  legs are located would be detectable in the flight photos..






This is another similar photo to Bobs S.M craft




I now see that one of the Billy Meier photos was referred to as in 1975... thats 13 years before Bobs story came out..

so I dont see why Gene Huff would be asking John for the tape for info or  an image of that craft just the year before in 1988..

unless the image / tape  or other information about that craft had been unobtainable all that time.

Some reports suggest that  Billys photo was claimed to be a hoax by his wife..

but will we ever really know for sure ?  Maybe it was for real as some believe Bobs craft is... and was a similar craft to Bobs S.M.





ONE MAJOR FLAW  in your theory...

THIS was Billy Meiers saucer :P



« Last Edit: June 22, 2018, 04:31:46 am by astr0144 »

Offline The Seeker

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Re: Further thoughts on Bob Lazars anti gravity theory.
« Reply #24 on: June 22, 2018, 04:04:40 am »
Astro, out of the 4 pics you just posted, the first 3 are drawings, not actual photos; the one that you copied that Z had posted is an actual picture, not some artists' rendition...
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Offline astr0144

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Re: Further thoughts on Bob Lazars anti gravity theory.
« Reply #25 on: June 22, 2018, 04:40:45 am »
Note what you say Seeker...

Im not sure what I may had been thinking at the time of posting or commenting on the images.

Probably.... its because of images I posted ..that they relate to that similar drawing / image that B.P51 posted..
and I was not sure if some of them may had been based on another different UFO story to the of Billy Meiers..
and that they may just seem similar..

I am not sure if one of the images may had related to some claimed craft from Venus..(that may had been a different connection). or if Billy referred to that also...

Thats why I was asking if "Z" maybe was aware or could recall..


Astro, out of the 4 pics you just posted, the first 3 are drawings, not actual photos; the one that you copied that Z had posted is an actual picture, not some artists' rendition...

Offline astr0144

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Re: Further thoughts on Bob Lazars anti gravity theory.
« Reply #26 on: June 22, 2018, 05:20:01 am »
I find the thoughts of the technology if such a Force field really exists either in Bobs Craft or where ever..

I wonder if such a thing may exist as a type of craft that just has some sort of surrounding cover without the metallic outside skin that we generally see on a Saucer like Craft !

It would be great to have such a thing and to be able to travel anywhere within  it  , in an instant...



This has some further info on Gravity Lensing.



Quote
Unlike an optical lens, a gravitational lens produces a maximum deflection of light that passes closest to its center, and a minimum deflection of light that travels furthest from its center. Consequently, a gravitational lens has no single focal point, but a focal line. The term "lens" in the context of gravitational light deflection was first used by O.J. Lodge, who remarked that it is "not permissible to say that the solar gravitational field acts like a lens, for it has no focal length".[7] If the (light) source, the massive lensing object, and the observer lie in a straight line, the original light source will appear as a ring around the massive lensing object. If there is any misalignment, the observer will see an arc segment instead. This phenomenon was first mentioned in 1924 by the St. Petersburg physicist Orest Chwolson,[8] and quantified by Albert Einstein in 1936. It is usually referred to in the literature as an Einstein ring, since Chwolson did not concern himself with the flux or radius of the ring image. More commonly, where the lensing mass is complex (such as a galaxy group or cluster) and does not cause a spherical distortion of space–time, the source will resemble partial arcs scattered around the lens. The observer may then see multiple distorted images of the same source; the number and shape of these depending upon the relative positions of the source, lens, and observer, and the shape of the gravitational well of the lensing object.[9]

There are three classes of gravitational lensing:[7][10]

1. Strong lensing: where there are easily visible distortions such as the formation of Einstein rings, arcs, and multiple images.

2. Weak lensing: where the distortions of background sources are much smaller and can only be detected by analyzing large numbers of sources in a statistical way to find coherent distortions of only a few percent. The lensing shows up statistically as a preferred stretching of the background objects perpendicular to the direction to the centre of the lens. By measuring the shapes and orientations of large numbers of distant galaxies, their orientations can be averaged to measure the shear of the lensing field in any region. This, in turn, can be used to reconstruct the mass distribution in the area: in particular, the background distribution of dark matter can be reconstructed. Since galaxies are intrinsically elliptical and the weak gravitational lensing signal is small, a very large number of galaxies must be used in these surveys. These weak lensing surveys must carefully avoid a number of important sources of systematic error: the intrinsic shape of galaxies, the tendency of a camera's point spread function to distort the shape of a galaxy and the tendency of atmospheric seeing to distort images must be understood and carefully accounted for. The results of these surveys are important for cosmological parameter estimation, to better understand and improve upon the Lambda-CDM model, and to provide a consistency check on other cosmological observations. They may also provide an important future constraint on dark energy.

3. Microlensing: where no distortion in shape can be seen but the amount of light received from a background object changes in time. The lensing object may be stars in the Milky Way in one typical case, with the background source being stars in a remote galaxy, or, in another case, an even more distant quasar. The effect is small, such that (in the case of strong lensing) even a galaxy with a mass more than 100 billion times that of the Sun will produce multiple images separated by only a few arcseconds. Galaxy clusters can produce separations of several arcminutes. In both cases the galaxies and sources are quite distant, many hundreds of megaparsecs away from our Galaxy.

Gravitational lenses act equally on all kinds of electromagnetic radiation, not just visible light. Weak lensing effects are being studied for the cosmic microwave background as well as galaxy surveys. Strong lenses have been observed in radio and x-ray regimes as well. If a strong lens produces multiple images, there will be a relative time delay between two paths: that is, in one image the lensed object will be observed before the other image
.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_lens


MY BIG QUESTION ?


Could or does Speed of Gravity really exist ?
as suggested in some of the earlier posts made or is there any other main thread that has covered it in some detail ...  (That I have overlooked)

I ask ,as if its likely true ... it seems a major Topic in UFO technology or our Future Long Distance Space travel.


Suggestions are its Billions of times faster than Speed of Light !


something that has only recently sank much more deep  in my psyche...

I must have either just browsed thru this webpage or ignored it or something for some reason...and not noted this statement or considered it correctly.....am I the only one ???

and if its been highlighted on PRC... some how I must either not believed  or really understood what was being said and understadning the importance of it,    or ignored it or something..

BUT NOW being MORE Concious of it...

This seems one of the MOST Important suggestions that I have ever come across.. in particular if its potentually relating to what maybe the speed at what a Saucer could operate at to travel thru space..

Does this statement refer to that ???


and is this the most important statement ever claimed to do with UFOs Space travel ?


Quote
“The Speed of Gravity - What the Experiments Say,” demonstrating that gravity propagated at least 20 billion times faster than light and may very well propagate instantaneously


Quote
Robert Lazar claimed that gravity propagates instantaneously.  If one thinks about that, it actually makes perfect sense logically.  Gravity warps or bends space and time.  We measure the speed or velocity of an object by observing the distance that the object travels in a given time interval.  If the very parameters that we use to measure distance and time are significantly affected by strong gravitational fields, then it would be impossible to actually define a finite speed to the propagation of gravity. A recent article, “Rethinking Relativity,” had stated that Associate Professor Tom Van Flandern from the University of Maryland issued a document, “The Speed of Gravity - What the Experiments Say,” demonstrating that gravity propagated at least 20 billion times faster than light and may very well propagate instantaneously.

2/3s down the page under the Gravity Amplifier section /  image

http://gravitywarpdrive.com/Government_Scientist.htm


IF its possible to travel at a "Speed of Gravity and its seen as  being Instant..

Could it be that be suggesting that its possble to travel anywhere at an instant thru Space with a Craft like Bobs Sports Model !  maybe also thru time..

back to the future or into the Future...

Its suggested that Gravity  can also  relate to Space Time Compression ..  that maybe possible...

That to me would be one of the most interesting topics, that I could think off !

I think we on Earth...could accept to ourseleves that Gravity does seem to always act instant to our time frame beliefs or acceptance...or maybe how our brains may interpret it..

But as we tend to just experience it in our every day lives... just like we do with light...

In reality .. we had not idea before the speed of Light was claimed to have been measureed just how fast light was in how we percieve it .... and likewise if Gravity has an even faster speed... we have no idea of the real speed of gravity either..

BUT THIS CLAIM TO ME ... AT the moment is based on the more recent suggestions from Bob Lazar ! Based on him saying that they found ths out from the effects of Element 115 and how "Gravity A" from it was detected..

OTHERWISE....  they way that I see it we would not have been able to suggest this...

So at the moment to me ... this theory is only relevant if what Bob claims is truth..

The Scientists cannot claim this works with the other main elements that we know on Earth ! as "Gravity A" within the bonds of other element atoms does not penetrate outside the atoms shells..

So this theory is all down to Bobs statement !  is it true or not !

Its certainly the most interesting theory ! and very thought provoking !

Maybe I understanding this .... if so can anyone claryfy ?

To think this maybe a possibility is driving (or has driven) me insane !


« Last Edit: June 22, 2018, 06:00:04 am by astr0144 »

Offline ArMaP

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Re: Further thoughts on Bob Lazars anti gravity theory.
« Reply #27 on: June 22, 2018, 05:49:52 am »
Gravity lensing caused by the amplified gravity field and neon light effect from the voltage on the outside of the craft.
Wouldn't a gravity field strong enough to create lensing create other noticeable effects, like attracting small objects, for example?

Offline A51Watcher

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Re: Further thoughts on Bob Lazars anti gravity theory.
« Reply #28 on: June 22, 2018, 12:49:05 pm »
Wouldn't a gravity field strong enough to create lensing create other noticeable effects, like attracting small objects, for example?

No. It is a small localized gravity distortion field.

Thus distorting our view.

"As the intensity of the gravitational field around the disc increases, the distortion of space/time around the disc also increases. If you could see the space/time distortion, which we can't, this is how it would look.



As the gravitational field from the amplifiers becomes more intense, the form of the space/time around the disc not only bends upward, but at maximum distortion, actually folds over into almost a heart shape around the top of the disc.

This space/time distortion is taking place 360 degrees around the disc, creating a volume of distortion, so if you were looking at the disc from the top, the space/time distortion would be in the shape of a donut as it enclosed the disc.

When the gravitational field around the disc is so intense that the space/time around the disc achieves maximum distortion, the disc can't be seen from any vantage point and, for all practical purposes, is invisible.  All you would se would be the sky around it.

At various angles prior to the disc achieving maximum distortion, the disc could be visible from one vantage point and not another.  All you could see would be the environment around it. This is similar to being able to see stars that are behind the sun, due to the intense gravity of the sun bending the light path between the star and earth.

Essentially, this creates a sort of space-time bubble around the craft. "Maximum distortion" is not necessary for standard flight over the surface of a planet. Except in the case of rapid "streaks" across the sky. Maximum distortion is essential for this mode of travel. The typical fire light comet in the night sky is not the craft, but rather the air around the craft ionizing and trailing it."

http://users.skynet.be/bob.lazar/www.boblazar.com/closed/maximum.html




« Last Edit: June 22, 2018, 02:26:13 pm by A51Watcher »

Offline A51Watcher

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Re: Further thoughts on Bob Lazars anti gravity theory.
« Reply #29 on: June 22, 2018, 03:24:52 pm »
I mentioned that I have not as yet studied in much detail about Billy Meier or whats UFOs he claimed to have seen..

On doing doing quick searchs however...  there does seem many a picture or website that relates to the one Bigpappy posted..

Well it is not a picture. It is a drawing made by an artist, copying the picture on the cover of the Testors model.

Quote
So "Z" why is that not the same one as one of Billy Meiers as you indicate ?

Could not the legs it lands on ,only appear when landing / landed.. and are not seen during the flight..

although it would seem that the the  legs are located would be detectable in the flight photos..


The legs are not the point (except for the fact they don't exist in any of Billy's photos OR the Testors model) and totally irrelevant.


The primary difference, is the evenly spaced black portholes around the top of the craft -





NONE of Billy's photos show any black portholes around the top. Only artists drawings have added that feature.

I am confidant that none of these drawings/paintings were created, published or copyrighted pre- 1989.














Examine all the Billy photos you like but NONE of them display black portholes around the top.

Apparently the artist made 'a mistake' when trying to depict the craft shown in Billy's photos, PLUS they forgot to include the rings around the dome. ::)  -




So... instead of Bob copying Billy's photos, as bp has tried to imply, it is actually the other way around, where artists in the Meier camp have copied Bob's UFO.



« Last Edit: June 22, 2018, 03:47:46 pm by A51Watcher »

 


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