Pegasus Research Consortium

John Lear's Question and Answers => John Lear's Question and Answer Area => 9/11 Conspiracies => Topic started by: zorgon on March 28, 2018, 01:30:48 pm

Title: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on March 28, 2018, 01:30:48 pm
Immaculate Deception

It appears that our deduction that Corbell 4 Names was working with George Knapp are correct...

Seems George is letting him make two films

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/47john_lear/04images/Corbell/JC-001.jpg)

And it looks like the first part of John's film is done and this episode is free

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/47john_lear/04images/Corbell/JC-002.jpg)

Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on March 28, 2018, 01:38:21 pm
Dan:

OK Ron
You want the timestamps?
Ok hit play is not its 45 minsw in he states he doesnt belioeve lazar has any degrees thats far from what he used to say this is interesting


https://youtu.be/K1viG6PRjiw?t=2700

Now hit play how is Jerry Freeman sitting right on papoose in front of S4????
How the reason KNapp put this up id I pissed him off so he says that freeman saw a door open up at S4 thats a klie. Freeman statges he saw a cammo dude door open closer to Area51. The article should be under Freemans 49ers Trek

https://youtu.be/K1viG6PRjiw?t=3645

There you go I challenge anyone to debunk this. Freeman tells us theres no S4 at Papoose no way


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1viG6PRjiw
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: Sgt.Rocknroll on March 28, 2018, 01:52:16 pm
Hhhmmm. I DO remember someone mentioning that they were in cahoots?

Gee I wonder where? ::)
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on March 28, 2018, 01:58:42 pm
Shenanegans by Jeremy Corbell

The Schemes Surrounding DeLonge's New UFO VIDEO Release


Mouthy Buddha
Published on Mar 15, 2018


Was "To The Stars Academy's" third UFO disclosure, as they claim, an exclusive? Or was the video already available on the internet for everyone to see?

The Schemes Surrounding DeLonge's New UFO VIDEO Release

MUSIC:
1. Perturbator - Corrupted by Design [BUY HIS ALBUM HERE, IT'S BRILLIANT] https://perturbator.bandcamp.com

2. Steve Jablonsky  - I'm Big
3. Dark Music | Alien Psychill | Psybient Sci Fi Music Mix (YouTube)

UFO VIDEO: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxVRg7LLaQA

WASHINGTON POST ARTICLE:https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/the-military-keeps-encountering-ufos-why-doesnt-the-pentagon-care/2018/03/09/242c125c-22ee-11e8-94da-ebf9d112159c_story.html?utm_term=.5251627e3c98


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3poUgFNLV3U
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on March 28, 2018, 01:59:43 pm
Hhhmmm. I DO remember someone mentioning that they were in cahoots?

Gee I wonder where? ::)

In a galaxy not really that far away... on a tread a few links down :P

BUT we were asked for PROOF  :P

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPopPkglQNI
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: Sgt.Rocknroll on March 28, 2018, 02:03:51 pm
Proof? We don't need no stinkin' Proof?  or was that Badges?...lol

I told ya he was a skunk....
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on March 28, 2018, 02:20:08 pm
Seems like these people are ALL connected

George Knapp, Jeremy Corbell, Harry Reid, Tom DeLonge and now Podesta the pedophile?

Robert Bigelow in my opinion is a very serious honest guy.  I think he is being used in all this, or they are doing this to keep him under control. I am tempted to write him a letter and outright ask him. Don't know yet if that is a wise move or not

I am HOPING Robert Bigelow is just being used, but it appears that we are entering a new Era of cover up.  Harry in a recent interview says:

“Just let me preface this by saying this, if we’re here to talk about little green men or stuff that you want to look at that was found in New Mexico or something, I’m not interested.”

So THIS is the new government Mr UFO Disclosure?  I smell ROTTEN TUNA
   
(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10004/normal_At-the-UFO-Congress-2015_photo_medium.jpg)
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on March 28, 2018, 02:35:10 pm
(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/47john_lear/04images/Corbell/JC-004.png)
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on March 28, 2018, 02:52:42 pm
MORE Shenanegans by Jeremy Corbell
Marilee Lear, John's wife  years ago created the website TheRealJohnLear dot com

http://therealjohnlear.com/TheRealJohnLear.com/HOME.html

That website is now owned by Jeremy 4 names. We don't know how he got it other than John must have allowed him access while he was ill and under the opiates, same way Jeremy hijacked John's facebook and email accounts.  The two later have been fixed and John once again has control over those two accounts but we still have Jeremy as owner of that web domain

her is the WHO IS search  Earlier it had Jeremy's name but now it is listed as "JKLC PRODUCTIONS"

therealjohnlear.comUpdated 1 second ago
DOMAIN INFORMATION
Domain:therealjohnlear.com
Registrar:GoDaddy.com, LLC
Registration Date:2009-06-19
Expiration Date:2022-06-19
Updated Date:2015-04-17
Status:clientDeleteProhibited
clientRenewProhibited
clientTransferProhibited
clientUpdateProhibited
Name Servers:dns1.stabletransit.com
dns2.stabletransit.com
REGISTRANT CONTACT
Name:******** ******** (see Notes section below on how to view unmasked data)
Organization:JKLC PRODUCTIONS

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/47john_lear/04images/Corbell/JC-005.png)
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: Sgt.Rocknroll on March 28, 2018, 03:35:06 pm
When you go to that site and click on NEWS, the very first thing listed is Jeremy Corbell..
Says it all....
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: A51Watcher on March 28, 2018, 07:27:11 pm
Dan:


Now hit play how is Jerry Freeman sitting right on papoose in front of S4????
How the reason KNapp put this up id I pissed him off so he says that freeman saw a door open up at S4 thats a klie. Freeman statges he saw a cammo dude door open closer to Area51. The article should be under Freemans 49ers Trek

https://youtu.be/K1viG6PRjiw?t=3645

There you go I challenge anyone to debunk this. Freeman tells us theres no S4 at Papoose no way


Actually Jerry states in his diary that he did see a light getting bigger then smaller at Papoose during the night so George is not lying.

Jerry does not state "there is no base there, no way".

He only crossed the southern edge of Papoose so he had no way of knowing.

Was there a base like Groom lake to be seen? Of course not. You would have to be within 40 yards of the hangars to see them.

Dan is getting all this from a new video alienscientist made 4 months ago.

He gets this way when he hangs around that guy too much.

Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: A51Watcher on March 28, 2018, 07:31:15 pm


So Z, is there any chance Corbell was already having a skype chat with John when you guys showed up?

Or was John just as surprised as you guys were?

Has he cursed the guy out to you and suspects him of evildoing?


 




Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: Sgt.Rocknroll on March 28, 2018, 09:08:08 pm
The only time I will says this. No it was not a Skype event going on. And John was surprised to see him as we were!
And passing yourself as someone else to enhance your own other projects, is pretty evil. But some consider this action as ok.
Corbell was removed from access to John’s accounts after this so that says a lot.
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: A51Watcher on March 29, 2018, 09:36:07 am
The only time I will says this. No it was not a Skype event going on. And John was surprised to see him as we were!
And passing yourself as someone else to enhance your own other projects, is pretty evil. But some consider this action as ok.
Corbell was removed from access to John’s accounts after this so that says a lot.

Ok fine. So if Corbell was signed in as John, who was John signed in as?

If there was no Skype event going on, how was a conversation possible?

Sounds as if a previous Skype event was never terminated and Corbell was still online listening.

Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: Sgt.Rocknroll on March 29, 2018, 09:59:58 am
John was not sighed in on FB. How do I know? I called him and spoke with him! He said he hadn’t been on in months. Someone, with his credentials signed in for him! He begged Ron and I to help him with it! But none of this friggin’ matters. Corbell is an opportunist who found the golden egg! End of story!
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: A51Watcher on March 29, 2018, 10:04:37 am
John was not sighed in on FB. How do I know? I called him and spoke with him! He said he hadn’t been on in months. Someone, with his credentials signed in for him! He begged Ron and I to help him with it! But none of this friggin’ matters. Corbell is an opportunist who found the golden egg! End of story!

None of that addresses the questions I asked.

Which is why my original question was addressed to Z.

I will just wait for him to respond.

Thanks anyways.



Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: Sgt.Rocknroll on March 29, 2018, 10:26:51 am
That’s par for the course with you. I answered the questions you asked cause I was there! I should have known it would go this way. I’ll go back to keeping my mouth shut, regardless.
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on March 29, 2018, 02:18:04 pm
Dan is getting all this from a new video alienscientist made 4 months ago.
He gets this way when he hangs around that guy too much.

LOL that is true :P One day he is against the guy the next day he is god... I like dan but he does get 'passionate' at times

 ::)

MY point is that there is a plot afoot.. that includes George, Harry Reid, 4 Names, Tom Delonge and possibly connected with John Podesta  who it seems everyone is ignoring the fact he is a proven pedophile still not in jail

This Pentagon UFO release is crap... there is no way they are releasing real useful info and in the same breath saying  "To expensive, nothing to see here, we shut it down"

Perhaps I am the only one seeing this...

John has no signed contract with Corbell  so would be SOL getting any  money out of this film deal... but on the flip side he or Marilee  could also stop Jeremy with a law suit.

I am personally hoping that Robert Bigelow is a pawn in this, because he is seriously into the UFO stuff... but now that George has given the film rights of Skin Walker and Bob lazar story to Corbell  I see trouble brewing

I will be with John Lenard Walson and John Lear at his house tonight I am going to go over this.  In the end it really is none of my business  BUT last time John asked for help to clear Corbell out of his personal email account and get his hijacked facebook page back

Corbell has us blocked on FB... but I have others that are watching his page

I am sure Bob trusts George...

At the party it was Corbell that initiated the Skype call from Bob Lazar...  (Kerry Cassidy immediately tried to record it and get an interview... that didn't go over to well)

This whole thing smells dirty to me...  I was quite surprised to hear George say he now believes Bob's schooling was a lie

Dan has been on a love/hate relation with Bob a very long time, and has pushed Ed Fouche as the real deal... all the way back from open Minds Forum. That whole mess resulted in OMF being shut down and erases, and I had to threaten the Outpost forum with a lawyer...

In any case I will be watching this closely. I have no power over John other than he listens to me at time. Since he is off the opioids he is a lot sharper and clear headed, so not so easy to fool

Corbell however was lurking with him for 4 years while he was ill and has had access to ALL John's material.  Since he also owns (and won't release) TheRealJohnLear dot com... I can only assume he intends to profit from John in the future





Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on March 29, 2018, 02:22:45 pm
So Z, is there any chance Corbell was already having a skype chat with John when you guys showed up?
Or was John just as surprised as you guys were?
Has he cursed the guy out to you and suspects him of evildoing?

I have already answered that  I have said that John asked for our help to get his email account and FB account back under his control.  John was very helpless at the time and is not very computer  savy...(though today he is doing better that I can help him on the phone and he gets it)

John's nephew cleared out all Corbell's access to his computer  But frankly I have my own problems and can't be there all the time  Ultimately it is Marilee that will have to take action.



Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on March 29, 2018, 02:32:46 pm
Ok fine. So if Corbell was signed in as John, who was John signed in as?

John was not able to sign is as anyone because he did not have a working password because Corbell changed it. I set up a NEW account for John and we reported the othe 3 bogus accounts to FB and they were eventually removed.  John had to contact COX to get his email password reset because we could't even open a new FB without the email

Corbell was deleting emails to John... This is how I first found out there was a problem, when John asked me to help him figure out why people called him wondering why he didn't reply

Quote
If there was no Skype event going on, how was a conversation possible?

Oh come on now...  Do you already forget what happened with Bill Allred when his account was hijacked and why I refuse to use Skype?  Corbell has access to Johns computer It is easy to set up P2P access if you are on someones computer and have their password...

(http://Sounds as if a previous Skype event was never terminated and Corbell was still online listening.)

Well sure.. that is possible... because as i said at the time John was under opioids and wasn't thinking clearly. But what does that matter?  Its still eavesdropping when the other person isn't aware its still open



Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on March 29, 2018, 02:50:00 pm
I will just wait for him to respond.

Respond I did, yes  hmmm? Answer I did...

There is a great disturbance in the Force...

Before the election  Grant Cameron was pushing  yes PUSHING people to vote Hillary because in his opinion SHE had promised to 'get to the bottom' of the UFO thing...  But the only evidence of that is a joking comment she made on CNN

The driving force was John Podesta... it was his effort that wanted the UFO disclosure...  Now ask yourself this  Podesta is as close to the top of the White House as you could get (at the time) and HE didn't know...  so that supports what I beleieve  our government is NOT high enough on that 'need to know' list including most presidents who are in effect only office temps.

So Grant kept pushing it  (Hillary keep a promise? Oh hell ya THAT will happen :P )  Everyone tried to tell him but he persisted.  In the end Podesta gets exposed as a pedophile (still at large because no one cares) and Grant's friend say "See we told you so.  Well after that he blocked me :P

Oh well.

Bill Clinton didn't address the UFO issue untill his SECOND term even though he promised at the start. When he did all he did was send an aide to Area 51 who was told "Nope no aliens here, just secret airplanes" So the aide left and Bill jokes about it in a recent interview

Obama on a visit to Vegas was denied access to Area 51...

With all the Wikileaks showing thousanda
ds of files exposing all the governments dirty laundry, there is NOT ONE UFO related report...  because the government know less than we do.

Think about it for a minute  there are 193 countries in the world... and we are supposed to believe that all 193 governments have manages to work together to keep this secret? Not ONE verifiable alien body or DNA from any one of them, not ONE crashed or intact alien space craft that we can verify

And now Julian Assange has had his internet cut off

http://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-wikileaks-assange-ecuador-20180328-story.html

So the only possibility is that the governments know NOTHING save for a handful of "Star Chamber" type






Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on March 29, 2018, 03:03:33 pm
So this current Pentagon thing..

It is our opinion that Harry Reid was given busy work to keep him out of their hair now that he is out of the Senate 

George introduce him to Robert Bigelow...  We are told that:

1) Harry was the one who create the pentagon UFO project yet until now Harry never mentioned UFO's or an interest in them

2) In Harry's interview he says PLAINLY :
"Well, I’m happy to talk to you. Just let me preface this by saying this, if we’re here to talk about little green men or stuff that you want to look at that was found in New Mexico or something, I’m not interested. If you’re here to talk about science, I’m happy to do that. I’m really glad to do that. I’m glad somebody is interested, because it’s a subject that is being terribly neglected, so I’m happy to talk to you."

http://nymag.com/selectall/2018/03/harry-reid-on-what-the-government-knows-about-ufos.html

3) That Bigelow has saucer parts at his house on Eastern Ave  (a few blocks from me)

Now I posted all this in the other thread. I even posted papers I just got from John showing Bob Lazar and Gene Huff as partners in that rumored business Zeta Reticuli 2 Inc that Robert created to reverse engineer a saucer but no one even looked at the pages

Considering this was long rumored you would think having the document as proof would be a big deal... yet NOTHING  On FB the only one who was interested was Issac Koi  (from ATS)  serious UFO researcher from the UK

This whole thing is a set up...  bit by bit the pieces are coming out  and it is obvious to many because YT is making videos on this sham already


There will be no disclosure  and you can bet with harry Reid involved, the guy who was responsible for John losing his mine AND the guy who was behine the Bundy rach fiasco, there will be NOTHING of value from this

It would not surprise me to see this bunch complete destroy Bob and John... I HOPE I am wrong, but what I saw of Corbell's video so far, John is NOT being shown at his best






Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on March 29, 2018, 03:07:08 pm
Here is that other thread
Zeta Reticuli 2 Robert Bigelow, Bob Lazar and Gene Huff


I sometimes wonder why I bother :P

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=10844.msg142342#msg142342
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: Sgt.Rocknroll on March 29, 2018, 05:40:09 pm
I have already answered that  I have said that John asked for our help to get his email account and FB account back under his control.  John was very helpless at the time and is not very computer  savy...(though today he is doing better that I can help him on the phone and he gets it)

John's nephew cleared out all Corbell's access to his computer  But frankly I have my own problems and can't be there all the time  Ultimately it is Marilee that will have to take action.

Don’t forget Ron when you and I were leaving John’s house, we stopped and told Marilee about the little Man poping up on the screen. Remember her reaction when she found out?

Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: Pimander on March 29, 2018, 08:26:25 pm
This whole thing smells dirty to me...  I was quite surprised to hear George say he now believes Bob's schooling was a lie
Really?  Did he say why?
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: A51Watcher on March 29, 2018, 09:12:33 pm
Really?  Did he say why?

He said "Can you imagine a guy like Bob sitting through boring classes?"

"Everybody exaggerates their background to get a job."

Paraphrase of what he said.


So then we are to believe he got hired by Los Alamos in a position as a Physicist with a Top Secret clearance with no degrees provided?

That part of his work history has now been confirmed.

Poor speculation on his part that doesn't fit the employment history.

You don't let the janitor operate your multi million dollar particle accelerator.


Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: A51Watcher on March 29, 2018, 09:30:02 pm
John was not able to sign is as anyone because he did not have a working password because Corbell changed it. I set up a NEW account for John and we reported the othe 3 bogus accounts to FB and they were eventually removed.  John had to contact COX to get his email password reset because we could't even open a new FB without the email.

Corbell was deleting emails to John... This is how I first found out there was a problem, when John asked me to help him figure out why people called him wondering why he didn't reply

Oh come on now...  Do you already forget what happened with Bill Allred when his account was hijacked and why I refuse to use Skype?  Corbell has access to Johns computer It is easy to set up P2P access if you are on someones computer and have their password..

That's why I asked for specifics on login status when he spoke up un announced on John's computer after you guys arrived at his place and began having a conversation.


Quote
Sounds as if a previous Skype event was never terminated and Corbell was still online listening.

Quote
Well sure.. that is possible... because as i said at the time John was under opioids and wasn't thinking clearly. But what does that matter?  Its still eavesdropping when the other person isn't aware its still open

Of course... eavesdropping is inexcusable and a betrayal of trust.

re: P2P access - Both parties must have the same remote access program and permission must be given before access is allowed.

There is however the syskey penetration where you are asked to press <ctrl>+ <F2> to allow P2P control.

All I was asking were the circumstances of the initial intrusion on you guys and what the status of the computer was found to be.

Thanks

Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on March 30, 2018, 01:49:21 am
re: P2P access - Both parties must have the same remote access program and permission must be given before access is allowed.

Permission is not required IF you are sitting at john's computer and have full access. That is how i was able to set up a new account on FB for John after we got his email password reset. 


Quote
All I was asking were the circumstances of the initial intrusion on you guys and what the status of the computer was found to be.

Understood :P but you know Sarge  :D  Its that Army in him... but be assured we ARE concerned about this.  I spoke with John tonight... he is going to call George Knapp and see if George gave 4 names (yes John calls him that now too :P ) PERMISSION to do the Bob Lazar story and the Skin Walker story

You asked for proof many months ago... seems like we are finding some.   I would like to talk to Bob myself I asked John to pass along a message that I have some radioactive minerals for sale so we shall see what happens


So  I hear you and Paulie Schrier were at a Comic Con in Lexington?  How did that pan out?  Have you by any chance heard from Beth (Undo)?  Since that mess I have lost all contact with her... just wondering how she is doing these days
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on March 30, 2018, 01:59:04 am
Now then I am with you I still believe Bob has more credibility than most EVEN IF he was only the controlled leak :P Without Bob  we might never have heard of Area 51, certainly not on everyones lips... and 90% of UFO conspiracies would not be out there

On the other hand  we have 193 countries in the world with government official.  For UFO secrecy to be a reality, it would require that ALL of these nations are working together secretly.  Yet look at our last election, all the fighting all the BS  all the Wikileaks dirty laundry  and then Podesta asking to get to the bottom of UFO's and yet he is about as high in the White House as it gets.

And all these years since Roswell and all we have is stories and speculations... Where are the Alien DNA results, The crashed saucer parts they speak of at all those UFO symposiums?  Where are the old obsolete models?  Does not ONE small postage stamp country have a small scrap of saucer to show?

Pentagon released UAP, but they don't say "Alien Spaceship"  Harry Reid is now in charge of Disclosure but he won't talk about "Little Green Men" or Roswell related stuff...  he WILL say that there are likely other civilizations out there and lets talk science.

Seems like I wasted the last 40 or so years looking  :P

And wait a few years when john and all the other old timers are no longer with us... the new comers will distort and twist everything so badly no one will ever find truth, at least until the Invasion Fleet blows up the White House

Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on March 30, 2018, 02:55:43 am
Don’t forget Ron when you and I were leaving John’s house, we stopped and told Marilee about the little Man poping up on the screen. Remember her reaction when she found out?

Yeah that was when she got Damien to wipe the computer :P

Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on March 30, 2018, 03:02:41 am
So just an FYI   

Linda Brown has reappeared on Facebook  Not sure how she ended up on my friend's list but she is going as Linda Leach now, apparently married for over 30 years

So either this is another timeline glitch or something else is afoot.

Here forum, Cosmic Token... there is ZERO record of it on wayback machine before that date Jun 2012

There is ZERO reference to TT Brown in the wayback machine on Qaulght, the old home of the Brown family, who sold me all those papers

Seems Mikada has erased ALL those old war posts from the Quanset Hut

Well we still have our old records :P  (I think  LOL haven't looked yet)

Just mentioned this in case anyone still hangs with her old crew :P
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: The Seeker on March 30, 2018, 05:04:36 am
So just an FYI   

Linda Brown has reappeared on Facebook  Not sure how she ended up on my friend's list but she is going as Linda Leach now, apparently married for over 30 years

So either this is another timeline glitch or something else is afoot.

Here forum, Cosmic Token... there is ZERO record of it on wayback machine before that date Jun 2012

There is ZERO reference to TT Brown in the wayback machine on Qaulght, the old home of the Brown family, who sold me all those papers

Seems Mikada has erased ALL those old war posts from the Quanset Hut

Well we still have our old records :P  (I think  LOL haven't looked yet)

Just mentioned this in case anyone still hangs with her old crew :P
I went thru the archives and found a post from April 12th, 2012 referencing the Cosmic Token: yet nothing shows on the wayback machine...

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=2142.msg11165#msg11165 (http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=2142.msg11165#msg11165)

 8)
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: ArMaP on March 30, 2018, 07:05:19 am
And wait a few years when john and all the other old timers are no longer with us... the new comers will distort and twist everything so badly no one will ever find truth, at least until the Invasion Fleet blows up the White House
That's why documenting and archiving this information is important, specially when the facts are separated from the theories and hypothesis, so people in the future can look at the facts and make their own mind.
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: A51Watcher on April 02, 2018, 09:25:06 am
Now then I am with you I still believe Bob has more credibility than most EVEN IF he was only the controlled leak :P Without Bob  we might never have heard of Area 51, certainly not on everyones lips... and 90% of UFO conspiracies would not be out there

On the other hand  we have 193 countries in the world with government official.  For UFO secrecy to be a reality, it would require that ALL of these nations are working together secretly.  Yet look at our last election, all the fighting all the BS  all the Wikileaks dirty laundry  and then Podesta asking to get to the bottom of UFO's and yet he is about as high in the White House as it gets.

I doubt any other countries have any UFO tech in their possession.

And all these years since Roswell and all we have is stories and speculations... Where are the Alien DNA results, The crashed saucer parts they speak of at all those UFO symposiums?

Stored in a location you don't have access to.

Where are the old obsolete models?

Doubtful that any gravity propulsion craft are obsolete by our standards.

Does not ONE small postage stamp country have a small scrap of saucer to show?

Probably not.

Pentagon released UAP, but they don't say "Alien Spaceship"  Harry Reid is now in charge of Disclosure but he won't talk about "Little Green Men" or Roswell related stuff...  he WILL say that there are likely other civilizations out there and lets talk science.

True. Seems like the Robertson panel all over again.

Seems like I wasted the last 40 or so years looking  :P

Or maybe looking in the wrong place at the wrong time. 40 years puts you in the time frame to have visited Area 51 while they were test flying gravity propulsion craft.

And wait a few years when john and all the other old timers are no longer with us... the new comers will distort and twist everything so badly no one will ever find truth, at least until the Invasion Fleet blows up the White House

You should ask John to detail WHY the gravity propulsion craft CAN NOT POSSIBLY be terrestrial military inventions.
He is by far the best expert among tinfoil hatters to explain the difference between earthly methods of propulsion and advanced alien methods of gravity propulsion.

I know the difference, and why we cannot perform these speeds and maneuvers due to mass and G forces, but John has the experience and reputation to make it stick.




Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: A51Watcher on April 02, 2018, 09:29:23 am
Permission is not required IF you are sitting at john's computer and have full access. That is how i was able to set up a new account on FB for John after we got his email password reset. 


Understood :P but you know Sarge  :D  Its that Army in him... but be assured we ARE concerned about this.  I spoke with John tonight... he is going to call George Knapp and see if George gave 4 names (yes John calls him that now too :P ) PERMISSION to do the Bob Lazar story and the Skin Walker story

You asked for proof many months ago... seems like we are finding some.   I would like to talk to Bob myself I asked John to pass along a message that I have some radioactive minerals for sale so we shall see what happens


So  I hear you and Paulie Schrier were at a Comic Con in Lexington?  How did that pan out?  Have you by any chance heard from Beth (Undo)?  Since that mess I have lost all contact with her... just wondering how she is doing these days

Yeah it was a lot of fun I had a great time. No haven't heard from Beth in ages.


Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 06, 2018, 06:42:45 pm
Immaculate Deception is an appropriate name...

Okay UPDATE

From Spooksville

Yes it is true that George Knapp and Jeremy 4 Names are  in cahoots on the Skin Walker Ranch deal   and now Springer (from ATS) is in on the deal

I give up... I really do... there is no point trying to compete with these guys only after the money. With Harry Reid, Robert Bigelow and Tom DeLonge in the mix and now Springer  what point is there?  These guys will control ALL the UFO info at this rate and everyone is already fawning all over them


Springer

posted on Apr, 3 2018 @ 12:01 AM
link   
So... I just returned from The Skin Walker Ranch. I was out there with George Knapp, Jeremy Corbell, and couple other friends (you may or may not have heard of).

Once I've caught up on sleep I'll start a thread with pictures and everything. ;-)


http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread1195773/pg103#pid23279374


Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 06, 2018, 06:53:47 pm
Already deleted ALL my posts on Facebook  Sgt R&R and The Seeker left there too...

With this team controlling the UFO scene... I might as well go back to my rocks and faeries... because there will be no truth or real disclosure coming from this bunch.

Since Corbell spent 4 years at Johns' place data mining, all John's material is effectively in his possession.

Time to hang up the Foil Hat and post about IMPORTANT things


WELSH DRAGON SUCCESSFULLY HATCHED AT BANGOR UNIVERSITY
Posted by The Bangor Aye | Apr 1, 2018 | Bangor News


(http://www.thebangoraye.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Baby-Welsh-Dragon-Bangor.jpg)

Quote
The first Welsh Dragon born in over 500 years has been successfully hatched at Bangor University.

Scientists managed to clone the Welsh Dragon after finding blood within mosquitoes that had been fossilized in amber. They then used the DNA from the dragon blood to complete the cloning process.

Geneticist Dr. Henry Wu explained how the process was achieved, he said: “The mosquito, after having a tasty meal of Welsh Dragon blood, decided to take a siesta on a piece of tree bark.

“Suddenly, sap or resin starts flowing on it, covering it and eventually hardening. The insect with the blood inside gets perfectly preserved when the resin hardens to form amber.

“We then drilled into the amber, into the stomach of the insect, and extracted the blood containing the DNA of the Welsh Dragon. This allowed us to develop the egg which has been incubated for several months and successfully hatched today.

“The work has been top secret up until today, but we are now happy to share this great news with the world.

“The Dragon was born at 00:01hrs this morning, 1st April, as far as we can tell, he appears to be a healthy Welsh Dragon and we‘ve called him Dewi, he is likely to develop his full red colouring on maturity, in about 250 years.”

A spokesperson from the university said they would like to thank Dr John Hammond for his considerable investment in the project.

http://www.thebangoraye.com/welsh-dragon-successfully-hatched-bangor-university/
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: Sgt.Rocknroll on April 06, 2018, 07:04:17 pm
Now THAT is interesting. I was hoping they would call him Smaug The Magnificent!
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 06, 2018, 08:29:36 pm
This whole UFO thing is a SHAM with MUFON at the top of the list

Stay Tuned....

UPDATED:

Bigelow, UFOs, MUFON and ‘DeLonge’ Road to AATIP

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=10865.msg142551#msg142551

http://www.thelivingmoon.com//47john_lear/02files/Skin_Walker_Ranch_001.html
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 07, 2018, 03:58:08 pm
As we said a few years back Jeremy Corbell had control of John's Facebook account and also a fake John Lear page.  Since that time that has been fixed, both John getting his account control back and the fake accounts removed (there were two)

Today it has come to my attention that there is a Fake Bob Lazar account.  (There have been several) This one however:

Quote
I am pretty sure that Jeremy has control of the fake Lazar page, every post on that page seems to have something to do with Jeremy's stuff.

Here is the page

(http://thelivingmoon.com/47john_lear/04images/Corbell/Lazar-Page-001.png)

Here is a typical post

(http://thelivingmoon.com/47john_lear/04images/Corbell/Lazar-Page-002.png)

This is EXACTLY the same MO Jeremy used on John's fake and hijacked facebook pages... every post "John" made promoted 'his friend' Jeremy

Bob Lazar has said many times in many interviews that he does NOT have a facebook page and doesn't hang out in social media forums so this has to be another fake account. And who is behind it is obvious enough by who's nae is so prominent

As I only know Bob as an acquaintance of John and have met him and Gene Huff only briefly at John's house, there is little I can do about this other than to pass it along to John. (Just did that waiting to hear back) Ultimately it is Bob who would have to take action as it is HIS identity that has been usurped to promote Corbell

Personally I am getting sick and tired of all these charlatans taking over the UFO field but what can i do?  I am getting old and tired. All I can do is post and make others aware.

My thanks to the person who found this for me.  For obvious reasons I will not be mentioning names :P
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 07, 2018, 04:19:21 pm
You should ask John to detail WHY the gravity propulsion craft CAN NOT POSSIBLY be terrestrial military inventions.

That blue on black is almost impossible for me to read :P

John has told me many things over the years.  Sometimes the stories change :P  One of the first ones he told me is how we used anti gravity tech to get a giant bucketwheel excavator to the moon, without taking it apart

Like THIS ONE

(https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/0611/trencher2_smd.jpg)

And actually, lately we talk more about Nevada mining and old mine locations and stories than we do about UFO's :P


Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: Sgt.Rocknroll on April 07, 2018, 05:21:58 pm
As we said a few years back Jeremy Corbell had control of John's Facebook account and also a fake John Lear page.  Since that time that has been fixed, both John getting his account control back and the fake accounts removed (there were two)

Today it has come to my attention that there is a Fake Bob Lazar account.  (There have been several) This one however:

Here is the page

(http://thelivingmoon.com/47john_lear/04images/Corbell/Lazar-Page-001.png)

Here is a typical post

(http://thelivingmoon.com/47john_lear/04images/Corbell/Lazar-Page-002.png)

This is EXACTLY the same MO Jeremy used on John's fake and hijacked facebook pages... every post "John" made promoted 'his friend' Jeremy

Bob Lazar has said many times in many interviews that he does NOT have a facebook page and doesn't hang out in social media forums so this has to be another fake account. And who is behind it is obvious enough by who's nae is so prominent

As I only know Bob as an acquaintance of John and have met him and Gene Huff only briefly at John's house, there is little I can do about this other than to pass it along to John. (Just did that waiting to hear back) Ultimately it is Bob who would have to take action as it is HIS identity that has been usurped to promote Corbell

Personally I am getting sick and tired of all these charlatans taking over the UFO field but what can i do?  I am getting old and tired. All I can do is post and make others aware.

My thanks to the person who found this for me.  For obvious reasons I will not be mentioning names :P

When I had Fakebook, I had seen this page before, but since I wasn’t a follower of Mr.Lazar, I didn’t pay any attention to it.
The MO is familiar though, and the only way I found out was by calling John and speaking to him. I then confront 4names and was banned from his account. Not mentioning Mr. Knapp’s role in this either,(don’t know if he was aware).  Someone has to speak to Bob and sees if he even cares.
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: ArMaP on April 07, 2018, 05:35:03 pm
Even if Bob doesn't care it's against Facebook rules, people aren't allowed to create accounts in other people's names without their permission.
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: Sgt.Rocknroll on April 07, 2018, 06:38:51 pm
Even if Bob doesn't care it's against Facebook rules, people aren't allowed to create accounts in other people's names without their permission.
But if they (FB) are not aware of the rule breaking, how are they suppose to handle it. And remember who we’re talking about here. The UFO Road Warrior! Lol
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: space otter on April 07, 2018, 07:46:52 pm


ah this is so sad  in respect to reply # 37 and the welsh dragon story
i went looking for more info cause, wow ! is he cute
and found this
farce book  and april fools  strikes again


https://hoax-alert.leadstories.com/3469172-fake-news-welsh-dragon-successfully-hatched-at-bangor-university.html

Fake News: Welsh Dragon NOT Successfully Hatched at Bangor University
 by: Maarten Schenk   5 days ago (Mon, 02 Apr 2018 21:50:51 Z)

Did a Welsh dragon successfully hatch at Bangor University in Wales? Of course not: that story is not true because it was a joke for April Fools' day published by a local news website which got about 50,000 Facebook engagements on that day. But even the day after it was still going strong, racking up an additional 70,000 so far to bring the total to 126,000 at the time of writing.

The original joke appeared in an article published on April 1, 2018 in the Bangor Aye and was titled titled "Welsh Dragon successfully hatched at Bangor University" (archived here). It opened:

The process described in the article as to how the dragon was hatched was an exact copy of how dinosaurs were supposedly brought back fron extinction in the 1993 movie Jurassic Park. The story even thanked "Dr John Hammond" for his investment in the project. Which makes sense since he is the character in the movie that came up with the process.

The Welsh Dragon is a fictional creature which appears on the national flag of Wales and which has been in use as a symbol for over a thousand years. No real ones have ever been observed though to our knowledge.

Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 07, 2018, 08:19:21 pm

ah this is so sad  in respect to reply # 37 and the welsh dragon story
i went looking for more info cause, wow ! is he cute
and found this
farce book  and april fools  strikes again

Yes it WAS April Fools day, after all the date on the article says APRIL 1st :P But it is not FAKE NEWS , it was a Touch of Humor...  :P

Sometime in our haste to scream FAKE at everything, we forget to just enjoy a cute faerie tale.  But stay tuned  the REAL Dragons are coming...
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 07, 2018, 08:53:33 pm
Even if Bob doesn't care it's against Facebook rules, people aren't allowed to create accounts in other people's names without their permission.


But if they (FB) are not aware of the rule breaking, how are they suppose to handle it. And remember who we’re talking about here. The UFO Road Warrior! Lol


While that sounds good and may be the rule, it is not easy to get fixed.  The person who's name is being used has to instigate the action.  When we tried to Fix John's account several people reported the fraud. They did nothing. Finally we got hold of someone who could do something but we had to send an email from the account that John used to create his original FB account.  Since Corbell has stolen that password John had no way to get that fixed. He had to write a letter to COX to get his password reset. Once we had that it was easy to send emai;l requesting new password

Corbell took advantage of John in his weaken state and under the guise of 'helping' John with his computer issues, he got the passwords

John called a little while ago and gave me permission to do what I can regarding this. Not sure what all I can do but i can certainly post it on his facebook page so all his friends see it.  The thing is there is a lot of money and clout in that mix og George Knapp, Harry Reid, Robert Bigelow and Hal Puthoff  Who knows who else is in on this. Col John Alexander?  Hmmmm  All the way back to the Aviary birds still flocking together. 

I don't really see what puny little old me can do about this... hard enough just getting through the monthly bills.

Disclosure? I doubt it  I really do... I HOPE I am wrong and something useful will come of this, but my gut says this is all Rotten Tuna from Fukushima


Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: space otter on April 07, 2018, 09:13:52 pm

Quote
Sometime in our haste to scream FAKE at everything, we forget to just enjoy a cute faerie tale.


well just call me gullable for thinking anything was possible
and wanting to check it out further
and then call me stupid for not realizing you were playing games
and unobservant about the date listed
and then call me sad that it wasn't true..even though the explanation sounded very scripted. (also why i wanted to check it out more)

and i wasn't in such a hurry to scream fake but to keep anyone else from thinking you were stupid for posting it as truth
when it wasn't

guess i will have to weigh your postings differently in the future
you have just lowered the cloud  i held you on

life can be so cruel

SIGH

 :(
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 07, 2018, 09:28:28 pm
but to keep anyone else from thinking you were stupid for posting it as truth  when it wasn't
guess i will have to weigh your postings differently in the future
you have just lowered the cloud  i held you on

LOL I have posted MANY posts on Dragons in the past... I LIKE Dragons, real or not ''Usually the addtion of these :P  ::)  8) is pretty good indication I am kidding around :P

 ::)

Quote
life can be so cruel


 :o

 ::)


The DRAGON BOOK

http://landoflegendslv.com/03ports/mystsofavalon/06Dragons/dragons.html

THIS is my REALITY :P

(http://landoflegendslv.com/03ports/mystsofavalon/00images/text/0-title.jpg) (http://landoflegendslv.com/03ports/mystsofavalon/)





Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 07, 2018, 09:33:39 pm
and then call me sad that it wasn't true.

Patience... the REAL dragons are coming to a thread near you :P

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuJnvC8voJY
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: ArMaP on April 08, 2018, 03:54:52 am
The person who's name is being used has to instigate the action.
Now that I looked at it I saw that the page is called "AlienPropulsion" and in the "About" page it says it's a short documentary with Bob Lazar and George Knapp.
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: space otter on April 08, 2018, 08:25:01 am


Quote
LOL I have posted MANY posts on Dragons in the past... I LIKE Dragons, real or not ''Usually the addtion of these :P  ::)  8) is pretty good indication I am kidding around :P

 ::)

yes but i didn't see any of those in your post..and as it was april 6 when you posted and the paper said april 1.. i mistakenly  thought that you had just found it.....sigh

the real clue was it didn't have it's own thread..now that should have tipped me off..but i really wanted it to be true and it led me down the wrong road..
but it has helped make me more tolerant of other folks following a false trail  so thank you for the enlightenment
but dang..i'm still sad
and with some of the specimens i have seen in my garden thru the years ..i thought someone might have..maybe actually saw
something wonderous..
but no.. sadly no little dragon  ..boo hoo


Quote
But stay tuned  the REAL Dragons are coming...

the real ones are already here..but that's an whole other thread
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: A51Watcher on April 08, 2018, 11:36:20 am
Quote from: A51Watcher on April 02, 2018, 09:25:06 AM
You should ask John to detail WHY the gravity propulsion craft CAN NOT POSSIBLY be terrestrial military inventions.

That blue on black is almost impossible for me to read :P

John has told me many things over the years.  Sometimes the stories change :P  One of the first ones he told me is how we used anti gravity tech to get a giant bucketwheel excavator to the moon, without taking it apart

Like THIS ONE

(https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/0611/trencher2_smd.jpg)

And actually, lately we talk more about Nevada mining and old mine locations and stories than we do about UFO's :P

I was speaking from an aviation standpoint.

Human technology is unable to go 5000 mph and cut 90 degree corners while doing so.

Or hover at a standstill then immediately achieve 5000 mph with no acceleration lag. Then come to an abrupt halt and hover again, or immediately bounce back in the opposite direction. 

Yet we have seen such maneuvers by flying saucers since 1947.

Humans can burn all the jet fuel (or any fuel) they want and still never replicate those maneuvers.

Even remote control craft would not survive such a thrashing.

A 90 degree corner at 5000 mph would be like slamming into a sky scraper then trying to continue your flight on a new vector.

Combustion technology does not provide a method or solution for the types of speeds and maneuvers witnessed and recorded.


THAT is the aviation technology barrier that separates us from them, and John is best suited to explain the mass and g forces that prevent us from doing so, since he has earned every aviation certificate available.


Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 08, 2018, 01:04:04 pm
yes but i didn't see any of those in your post..and as it was april 6 when you posted and the paper said april 1.. i mistakenly  thought that you had just found it.....sigh


Well I can only add ONE thing to this


APRILS FOOLS!!! GOTCHA :P
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 08, 2018, 01:44:48 pm
Human technology is unable to go 5000 mph and cut 90 degree corners while doing so.

Or hover at a standstill then immediately achieve 5000 mph with no acceleration lag. Then come to an abrupt halt and hover again, or immediately bounce back in the opposite direction. 

Yet we have seen such maneuvers by flying saucers since 1947.

Well there are a lot of issues here;

1) It is claimed by Bob Lazar and his supporters :P that we have already reverse engineered such flying saucers. Those videos he and you have from Area 51 are supposedly proof the we HUMANS do now at least actually have such technology. Ben Rich said as much.

2) However the Pentagon "release' that is the current buzz says "We are not saying Alien Spacecraft"  and they say "There is nothing to see here important enough to bother keeping the program running, it's too expensive and no results" 

UFO or UAP does NOT mean Alien Flying Saucer no matter how much we WANT to believe it does

3) There is still the CRITTER situation. Many researchers and even main syream science are starting to see that many of these UAP's may in fact be plasma critters... native to Earth and LEO. These critters have likely been responsible for Ghost sightings, the odd Orbs people are seeing everywhere, and the things that buzz around NASA spacecraft.  I am not saying ALL are critter  just (80%ish (IMO)  Denise Stoner of MUFON estimates 50% are critters.

Critters, as they are beings made of energy, can exhibit all the characteristics of these 'flying saucers'  They have no solid matter so are unaffected by inertia. They are blurry orbs or shape shifting blobs, that glow at night. They gain in intensity near power plants, power lines, thunder storms and space craft that are collecting electron charge by merely orbiting ( A lot... enough to kill an astronaut who gets careless and does not ground properly) They are also responsible for those early Nuke site shutdowns because their EMP field triggered those old relays to go into a cascade failure

Critters as they are energy would leave no physical trace, and would not appear on radar (though they might when they are highly energized)

Critters also make more sense in a number of ways...  These UFO's are seen by the thousands around the world. There is NO WAY it makes ANY sense that there are thousands of alien flying saucers buzzing aimlessly around our planet, yet we don't have a SINGLE ONE that has been caught and put in public display.  However the behavior of these is more like moths flittering about enjoying life than an Alien race on a mission to just buzz around our skies.  They make more sense as to leaving no physical trace and they make more sense with the motions witnessed as they feel no more inertia than a ball of lightning (which may possibly be critters been 'born' )

Quote
Humans can burn all the jet fuel (or any fuel) they want and still never replicate those maneuvers.

Humans ARE burning jet fuel and rocket fuel and blowing them up still... which kinda makes the case for us NOT having any working reverse engineered flying saucers.

I understand that Bigelow, DeLonge et al are wanting to build one :P 

Quote
Even remote control craft would not survive such a thrashing.

... UNLESS.....

Quote
A 90 degree corner at 5000 mph would be like slamming into a sky scraper then trying to continue your flight on a new vector.

... UNLESS.....

Quote
Combustion technology does not provide a method or solution for the types of speeds and maneuvers witnessed and recorded.

Agreed... HOWEVER....

Quote
THAT is the aviation technology barrier that separates us from them, and John is best suited to explain the mass and g forces that prevent us from doing so, since he has earned every aviation certificate available.

Actually no , he is not the best, because what is needed is an expert in PHYSICS  not Aviation.  All the flight certificates in the world cannot explain it. All they can do is explain what we already know about conventional aircraft. Bob Lazar claims to have knowledge of Physics :P He would be better qualified  Though I suspect he has other motives in this

HOWEVER... I have some small back ground in Physics... and way back in high school I asked my teacher a few simple questions... and got answers.  When he found out WHY I wanted to know this, he got a little upset :P Seems he didn't believe in aliens :D

So...  as I said 80%ish of UFO sightings  are PLASMA CRITTERS  native to Earth's atmosphere and LEO. They have always been here and have just been called other names by those who didn't understand what they were seeing... Ghosts, Brown Mtn Lights; Orbs; Plasma Phenomena plaguing spacecraft (NASA report from Jim Oberg dated 1964).  It was Trevor James Constable and Wilhelm Reich that first coined the term CRITTERS in the 50's

15% of UFO sightings are our own black ops craft. Now these figures are AFTER eliminating the obvious hoaxes, fakes and mis identified phenomena like triangular garbage bag balloons (stilll reported as UFO's by MUFON) Like THIS ONE

British witness says UFO hovered 20 feet off ground
Posted by: Roger Marsh  March 10, 2015


A Great Britain witness at Worcester reported two encounters with a UFO beginning at 7 p.m. on March 8, 2015, where the object in the second sighting was about 20 feet off of the ground, according to testimony in Case 63845 from the Mutual UFO Network (MUFON) witness reporting database.

(http://www.openminds.tv/wp-content/uploads/gb_ufo_ftr-620x330.jpg)

http://www.openminds.tv/british-witness-says-ufo-hovered-20-feet-off-ground/32528

Well as long as "UFO Researcher" are being so stupid and sloppy to keep recording obvious and know objects as UFO' we will never get anywhere. But MUFON gets money from Bigelow for this crap and charges $350.00 a pop for symposium tickets.    Yes it's all a sham to make big money from a very gullible public.   Oddly enough the very term UFOlogist as a scientific term is a joke... How do you become an expert on UNIDENTIFIED?  :P  How is the study of UNIDENTIFIED a plausible science? :P Well it's not  It's just a UFO circuit gig...

What serious researchers need is a new name   like the military is using UAP now

So... that leaves 5% of UFO sightings that truly fit the unexplained category and might be actual craft.  I spent decades before the internet tracking reports and grouping them by descriptions and behaviors. This was LONG before I got my first computer, a Commodore 64.

In effect  I CAN answer how these maneuvers are possible and, provided we have the answer to only ONE riddle, we don't need vastly superior knowledge. TESLA already knew it 100 years ago, Had we chosen science instead of war we would already be vacationing on Alpha Centauri Prime :P

continued...
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 08, 2018, 02:33:35 pm
Okay so  5% are (Likely) the REAL visiting spacecraft. I am quite convince that the early 1950's visitations by "Venusians" were real... All the contactees at that time told us they looked like us.  The flaps wer real and well documented even though the main photo of the UFO's over the Capitol in my opinions is showing street lamp reflections in the lens  (they match up if you do the analysis) and the blueish one recreated for the video is just that CGI rrecreation.

1) Anti Gravity.... 

Anti Gravity is a red herring, a fantasy, and useless for space travel.  Why it may lift us off the planet  as soon as you get high enough you would end up like a sailing ship in the Sargasso Sea, no wind... and stranded.  So too would an anti gravity powered craft be stuck in zero G with nothing to repel against, save the tiny galactic gravity that hold planets in orbit. But as we see on the ISS that is relatively ZERO G

What you need is MORE gravity, You need gravity generators (gravitrons as some have called them) to generate enough gravity to warp space and make jumps.  Bob's sports model shows that.

A side effect of high gravity fields would be a loss of time feeling, because space and time are distorted around fields of intense gravity (IE a singularity where time almost stops relatively speaking)

Aslo sine matter and anti matter annihilate each other in a violent manner releasing enormous energy ( Bob's 115 drive as example :P )  so too would ant gravity and gravity cancel each other out, perhaps violently as well.  GRAVITY SHIELDING would be more useful  :P

Okay so let's talk about INERTIA  which is the one force that would make these maneuvers impossible.


Back to the high school questions... and a simple experiment in physics that every kid learned and yet no one was aware that they had the secret of flying saucers in their hands.

The experiment is a small copper SPHERE on an insulated post. This sphere has a small hole in it so you can access the interior

You place a CHARGE on the sphere... positive or negative...  then you take a small pith ball on a string of opposite charge and it will attract and equal charge will repel the pith ball... this is basic EM Physics in ever text book.

Now since that sphere is SYMMETRICAL the charge is equal all around that sphere.  HOWEVER... the charge on the INSIDE of that sphere is ZERO  because the charge cancels it self out from all sides.

The other question I asked, and this is the key one, is "Does this effect work on other shapes than a sphere, particularly on a lens shape?"

He said YES, but the exterior effect would be concentrated around the rim of the lens. The shape still has to be symmetrical to have cancellation on the INSIDE

This is the same principal they use on the stealth planes putting a charge on the skin....

Now then... the TRICK is to have the CHARGE on the skin that will cover all frequencies of the EM spectrum/  If you do that you can now deflect ALL energy, like radar waves, light, and even beam weapons. In fact you can become invisible as light bends around your FIELS  Image a force field around you...

(http://allbetsareoff.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/force_field_th.jpg)

This also accounts for the reason you CANNOT take a clear photo of a UFO with it's drive system/field generator on.  It would be impossible as you can see in the image above

The following picture is a SIMILAR effect but a different cause. It is valid as an example because HEAT is actual Infr red and is on the EM spectrum  The exhaust of the jet, a HEAT/IR radiation source, blurs the image behind the exhaust  Same idea different cause... Same way a Mirage uses radiating heat from the ground to blur the view and reflect images from far away

(https://graphics.stanford.edu/wikis/cs348b-07/AndersHagvall/FinalProject?action-AttachFile&do=get&target=model_image.jpg)

So in effect you would require your flyinf saucer to be lens shaped (the classic saucer shape) or a spherical craft)  Other shapes would work as long as they are symmetrical (ie the Borg Ship :P ) but those would not be practical for use in atmosphere.  You could use a cylinder... and attach a skirt for stability in air.  Same on the lens  Attach a skirt and you have the typical flying saucer we use as a graphic

Lens shape:

(https://i.stack.imgur.com/LnyOC.gif)

Cylinder shape with skirt

(http://www.culttvmanshop.com/assets/images/squadhaun01.jpg)

So what we NEED to make this Force Field concept work to repel inertia, is a working UNIFIED FIELD THEORY  nothing more    Einstein was close, we don't know if Tesla figured it out

EM effect and electricity is the key  Tesla knew it..  Magnetic Levitation, Super Conductor Levitation, and Static electricity ALL exhibit the same 'gravity shielding' effects

Take a look at this one as an example  Unfortunately I don't have videos of an actual flying saucer to show you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViZNgU-Yt-Y


Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 08, 2018, 02:41:35 pm
Generate a strong enough force field or skin charge on you craft you can repel anything.  The stealth planes can actually push aside molecules of air (as all molecules have a charge) and virtually eliminate that annoying sonic boom  AND decrease air resistance at the same time allowing higher speeds

This one is a kids toy  called a LEVITRON  Uses simple magnetic levitation to repel against gravity  Magnetism is the M part of EM radiation.  We just don't have the G component added yet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RbsCiorwzI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4XEQVnIFmQ
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 08, 2018, 02:52:02 pm
2) Force Field and Glowing Saucers

One of the things I noticed when collecting reports is the GLOW of 'saucers" at night.  It appeared that there were different colors associated with different speeds

So  if you do a chart you will find:

Red/Dull red glow  --- craft is hovering
Red/orange --- craft is moving slow or low altitude
Orange/yellow --- --- craft is higher or moving faster
Yellow/ white -- higher and/or faster
White to Blue White  --- high altitude or fast moving
(some adjustment in results could be due to 'revving the engine' as it were)

No EM field is perfect... I suspect the glow is a 'leakage' in some way or a side effect of the EM field reacting with the surrounding molecules

During the day the glow would be not visible, but the craft would have to appear blurred

INERTIA DAMPERS are the stuff ALL science fiction shows use to allow space flight to be possible (except in Star Trek  they never have seat belts and get tossed around a lot :P )

INERTIA DAMPERS would be possible easily IF we had that Unified Field theory down pat and tied Gravity and Inertia to our current EM Spectrum.  But as the above levitaion experiments show that ANYBODY can do at home shows. we do not need very advanced technology at all  We just need ONE piece of the puzzle of the radiation spectrum

And I am sure Tesla had it or was extremely close. Too bad we chose WAR instead of EXPLORATION

Stupid Monkeys :P
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 08, 2018, 03:03:03 pm
Now that I looked at it I saw that the page is called "AlienPropulsion" and in the "About" page it says it's a short documentary with Bob Lazar and George Knapp.

John called yesterday and gave me permission to handle this best I can...  Told him not sure what I can do but he gave me Bob's email... So all I can do is pass along awareness like we did to John originally.  I am a nobody in this :P and really not a lot I can do except point it out to those involved.

So I will just write bob and give him the heads up  and see where the crap falls.

Also gonna see if he is interested in my radioactive mineral specimens :P
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 08, 2018, 03:09:13 pm
Okay Back to Dragons

yes this will be all collected in a dragon section LOL :P  so BE PATIENT

But this is about how Dragons can fly with those huge bodies and tiny wings :D

Pay attention  Secrest of the Universe type stuff (this movie also explains what happened to the Dragons and why only some of us can still see them :P But this section is about the flight

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0j0Bjy6hFc


"Flight of Dragons"
By Don McLean


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jjx0bYepm5E
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: A51Watcher on April 08, 2018, 06:23:05 pm

1) It is claimed by Bob Lazar and his supporters :P that we have already reverse engineered such flying saucers. Those videos he and you have from Area 51 are supposedly proof the we HUMANS do now at least actually have such technology. Ben Rich said as much.


Actually Bob said the goal of the project was to see if they could duplicate the technology using earthly materials.

His claim is we possess technology not manufactured by us. Not that we have successfully duplicated such tech.

And in his estimation we were thousands if not millions of years from being able to do so.


Reverse engineering is a two part process.

1 Figure out how a technology works.

2 Figure out how to duplicate a technology.

Bob has never said that we have figured out how to duplicate this technology.

The main problem lies in not possessing an element that gives us access to subatomic gravity, which we then can amplify.

Ben Rich has not provided a craft for inspection to prove his claim.

Bob has.

Quote
Actually no , he is not the best, because what is needed is an expert in PHYSICS  not Aviation.  All the flight certificates in the world cannot explain it. All they can do is explain what we already know about conventional aircraft.

Yep. And also why conventional aircraft can not perform these maneuvers. That was my point.

Conventional (human) aviation is not and can not be the source of this tech.

I agree with the rest of your posts about EM or anti gravity being worthless for propulsion as you can only go up or down.

I also agree that gravity amplification is the only propulsion method that solves all the aviation associated problems with these speeds and maneuvers - physics, mass, momentum and direction change, micro meteorites, radiation and FTL speeds. 

Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 08, 2018, 07:10:26 pm
More from Spooksville

from ATS
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread1203893/pg1

vlawde
posted on Apr, 8 2018 @ 10:57 AM link (http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread1203893/pg1)   
Over the past year or so there's been a lot of talk about Adamantium Real Estate and their involvement in SKinwalker Ranch ownership, and the company representative Thomas Winterton spoke at a local council meeting about the road closure several years back, so his name was immediately connected to who owns the ranch.

Ryan Skinner, a former member here who in some capacity investigated the ranch (not in any official status, I don't believe he was ever granted access) and author of multiple books on the ranch has a Facebook page dedicated to Skinwalker. He added and tagged Thomas Winterton, and Thomas showed up today to make a statement. Here 'tis:

Thomas Winterton

In past posts I have been tagged and asked to clarify or add insight to the conversation. For the past two years I have refrained. The time has come that I would like to clarify a few things I have read on this page. This will most likely be the only thing I post on here.

First, Good job Ryan Skinner on keeping this page intriguing and also using what seems to be good judgement on moderating the discussions. I have followed this page since being hired as a consultant and representative of Adamantium Real Estate Holdings over two years ago. It has been interesting and very amusing to read the posts on this page in regards to who the new owner is. As I am under a NDA, I am very limited in what I can say, but in light of several of the past posts, I will just set the record straight.

First and obvious, the new owner(s) does not want to be identified. The new owner(s) is/are very successful and intelligent. He/She/They have gone to great lengths and expense to keep their identity private. There have been layers added and precautions taken to insure privacy. Because no public dollars have been used in purchasing or maintaining the ranch, it really is none of the public's business who owns it. I understand the curiosity, but that does not supersede a private entities rights to remain private. The owner(s) has/have set up Adamantium, hired a law firm to manage it, hired a real estate management company to oversee it, and have done everything through third party contractors. Even the manager of the ranch was chosen and hired by the real estate management company. When I submit an invoice for my consulting, I submit it to the real estate management company.

When we have had contractors on the ranch, they are paid through the real estate management company or the owner of the real estate management company. Good luck finding the owner(s) because anyone who knows the true identity of the owner(s) are all under a strict NDA, and even if we weren't under an NDA, we wouldn't risk our access to the ranch and our place in the inner circle for a few moments of glory on a page with people we have never met. If asked, many associated with these protective layers would claim they are the owner simply to throw off the hunt and protect the identity of the owner(s).

I can tell you for sure that *Jeremy Kenyon Lockyer Corbell did not travel on the owners private jet to the ranch. I will end by saying that many hired to perform functions within the ranch started off doing so simply as a job. Over the past two years, the fascination and the level of involvement by those associated with the ranch has grown and now many of those hired to do a job have become very involved in the ranch. Do not mistake their involvement as a sign of ownership or you will chase a rabbit hole that gets you nowhere.


*Just to clarify, Jeremy is a filmmaker who is releasing a movie this year about the ranch that features George Knapp (also one about Bob Lazar).

The GUT
posted on Apr, 8 2018 @ 12:29 PM link (http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread1203893/pg1#pid23300158) 
They're either gonna do freaky rituals out there or turn it into a paranormal theme park. 

Or I guess that other option of burying a EM weapons testing operation is on the table as well.


The GUT
posted on Apr, 8 2018 @ 11:20 AM link (http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread1203893/pg1#pid23299997)   
Springer recently visited the ranch with George and Jeremy and others and has promised a thread and pics.

This story is getting hot again it seems. 

jadedANDcynical
posted on Apr, 8 2018 @ 06:20 PM link (http://link)
I don't think the Adamantium Goup and Adamantium Real Estate, LLC. are the same company:

Springer
posted on Apr, 8 2018 @ 06:51 PM link (http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread1203893/pg2#pid23301105)
I just want to jump in here and say that the privacy of the new owner will be respected here until she or he wants the world to know.

So, while I appreciate the curiosity about who owns the ranch ATS will not be part of invading a private citizen's privacy.

This is site policy. Just like we don't allow the names or images of people suspected of being "crisis" actors, or any of the other invasions of privacy various stories have brought about to be published here, we won't allow the speculation of who owns the ranch causing private citizens duress or harm to published here either.

Everyone's cooperation is appreciated.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread1203893/pg2



Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 08, 2018, 07:13:38 pm
Seems I am not the only one on Jerremy's case

humanoidlord
posted on Apr, 8 2018 @ 07:08 PM link (http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread1203893/pg2#pid23301152)   
better question: how did Jeremy Lockerbell gain access to the ranch
also the owner is obviously Mr bigelow, its way easier to continue research away from prying eyes

I am however surprised that ATS doesn't know that Robert Bigelow owns Skin Walker ranch... it hasn't exactly been a secret and is all over the internet...

But I disagree with Springer... a company or corporation is listed PUBLICLY so looking up ownership of any duly registered company is open to anyone  Same with who owns a domain... that is why there is a WHOIS database and the law requires the owner of a domain to be listed in that database.  I get an annual email from my server requesting to update my contact info (if changed) or lose the domain

Jeremy Corbell STILL owns TheRealJohnLear.com and there is nothing I can do about it  It either has to be John or Marille that contacts the IP company that is hosting the site.
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 08, 2018, 07:35:06 pm
Ben Rich has not provided a craft for inspection to prove his claim.
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/Themes/splat1/images/bbc/img.gif
Quite true... skeptics argue that he even said it LOL It wasn't on his death bed, it was at an alumni reunion at his old college  Someone had a recording of it but I never got a copy before that person literally vanished off the net

Quote
Bob has.

GREAT!  When can i go have a look at it?

 ::)

Quote
Conventional (human) aviation is not and can not be the source of this tech.

Agreed but there are many scientist that have worked on unconventional projects, especially the NAZI scientists


Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 08, 2018, 07:43:01 pm
The Gut   is Frank Warren (also on Facebook) from theufochronicles.com (https://www.theufochronicles.com)

Monday, March 26, 2018
Deception and Fake Videos: It's Not Just for YouTubers


(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-eknenKFnYUg/WraRK6rVYSI/AAAAAAAAi6A/GrmWq3iVTdMV_tmXuB2sHTxEnl7UrAp4QCLcBGAs/s400/Deception%2Band%2BFake%2BVideos%2B-%2BIt%2527s%2BNot%2BJust%2Bfor%2BYouTubers.jpg)

Quote
“The majority in the UFO community are clueless about the depths that an intelligence agency can go to manage people of interest.”

- James Carrion, commenting in The Greys Have Been Framed: Exploitation in the UFO Community
      People interested in UFOs often possess vast amounts of knowledge on popular cases and intricate details of happenings within the community. High profile ufology personalities and their followings know their UFO stuff. Unfortunately, we might sometimes be viewed as knowing a lot about a little, and those observations may at times have merit.

The genre is rather infamously notable for neglecting to give adequate study to topics often found less enthralling than saucer stories, yet nonetheless extremely relevant. Procedures of the intelligence community is one such relevant topic, among many. Let's take a relatively brief look at how better understanding the intelligence community might be important for those desiring to know more about events taking place within ufology.

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-7PdTDbGRPlI/VDmDmGMf8TI/AAAAAAAAZGo/aGlaGH2KO1Y/s1600/Jack%2BBrewer%2B(60%2Bpx).jpg)
Jack Brewer - By Jack Brewer - The UFO Trail - 3-19-18

The Pentagon spent over $500 million – half a billion bucks – to create fake videos, according to sources such as Independent and The Bureau of Investigative Journalism. But it was much more than perception management. As a matter of fact, the videos were designed to appeal to Al-Qaeda members and sympathizers, not change their minds. This particular batch of propaganda consisted of fake terrorist vids that tracked the locations of viewers. The material was created by a UK-based public relations firm hired by the U.S. Department of Defense.

Former video editor Martin Wells reportedly worked on the project, which took place between about 2006 and 2011. Requirements included specific format and code, he explained. Marines would leave copies of the completed videos, contained on compact discs, at the scenes of raids and ransacked houses in Iraq so that enemies would later find them. According to Independent, Wells further explained:
“If one if looked at in the middle of Baghdad… you know there’s a hit there,” Mr. Wells said. “If one, 48 hours or a week later shows up in another part of the world, then that’s the more interesting one, and that’s what they’re looking for more, because that gives you a trail.”
A former chairman of Bell Pottinger, the PR firm, reportedly confirmed the existence of its contract with the Pentagon. Likewise, the Pentagon also confirmed the contract, while insisting all material distributed was truthful. That may actually be the case while the videos nonetheless fall well under the definition of Al-Qaeda propaganda.

“Bell Pottinger was first tasked by the interim Iraqi government in 2004 to promote democratic elections,” Independent reported. “They received $540m between May 2007 and December 2011, but could have earned as much as $120m from the US in 2006.”

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MO7Q_gteRBs/WraUiszP30I/AAAAAAAAi6M/8oWhAIPspFUl2vs-hmB_jSAhqpGW2Y4dACLcBGAs/s200/Howard%2BHughs.jpg)
Howard Hughes, 1938

We might also consider what history teaches us about relationships between intelligence agencies and wealthy eccentrics. The CIA recruited Howard Hughes to supply cover for Project Azorian, a multi-million dollar effort to secretly raise a sunken Russian submarine from the bottom of the ocean. The project took years to fully execute and involved Hughes announcing a fabricated plan to mine the seafloor. In actuality, sailors would work to raise the sub under the guise of mining, which, by the way, was reasonably successful. The CIA eventually released documents indicating about 40 feet of the over 300-foot vessel was retrieved.

We might be wise to familiarize ourselves with such operations and keep them in mind when contemplating the Advanced Aviation Threat Identification Program and its close relations to Robert Bigelow and To The Stars Academy. Every instance of career intelligence officials moonlighting as ufologists is certainly not the tip of a far reaching conspiracy. That stated, it is not unreasonable by any means to expect verification of evidence presented. The same can be said for claims asserted. That might particularly be considered the case when To The Stars claimed able to present a verifiable chain of custody of videos published, yet has failed to do so.

There is not a lot of wiggle room in the definition of a fact. It can be publicly reviewed and confirmed by third parties or it can't. When it can't, it simply shouldn't yet be accepted as a fact.

It's reasonable to be open-minded. It's also reasonable to be inquisitive and interested in what might be navigating the skies.

But don't be gullible. Don't be guilty of confirmation bias. Demand professionally presented evidence. The truth depends on it.

SOURCE  Reprinted by Permission (https://www.theufochronicles.com/2018/03/deception-and-fake-videos-its-not-just-for-youtubers.html)

ORIGINAL SOURCE PAGE (http://ufotrail.blogspot.com/2018/03/deception-and-fake-videos-its-not-just.html)

Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: A51Watcher on April 08, 2018, 08:13:27 pm

GREAT!  When can i go have a look at it?

 ::)


Right now actually.

Go camping outside Dugway.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwoFUCoS72s






Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: A51Watcher on April 08, 2018, 09:05:24 pm

Remember to plan ahead and be careful.

(click on image for full size)
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/e6/3e/22/e63e22fe1638b5344aa50471b13ee7f3.jpg)






Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 08, 2018, 09:49:44 pm
I don't want to see glowy things flitting about in the distance :P 

I want to see a real live saucer up close :P

BTW have the EVER actually shot anyone for climbing those fences?  :D

UFO's does NOT mean Alien Spacecraft :P
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 08, 2018, 10:01:06 pm
Well okay... so if there is a film about Bob Lazar by jeremy with George Knapp et al involved and their big money... there is really nothing I can do about any shenanegans.

All I can do is keep an eye on it. pass on the news and hope someone else with more power is on top[ of it

Ultimately this falls on John and Bob to look out for their own interests.

Just makes me sick when I see a weasel like 4 Names involved considering he robbed John of all his material with a promise for a film we will likely never see, with NO CONTRACT for John to get his royalties.

In fact the whole UFO scene is starting to smell like Rotten Tuna and a total waste of time... I don't have the ability to be a Con Artist... and that seems to be what it takes to make any money at this.. 

The UFO circuit crowd doesn't want truth, because it will mess up their little conference club...

Other serious researchers are getting fed up as well I see posts by Issac Koi, Frank Warren and several other old timers getting jaded by the whole mess

while the Charlatans are getting front page coverage and raking in the big bucks...

Disclosure?  John was right... NEVER gonna happen... it's not in the plan... whoever it is that is running the show.

So... 

THERE ARE NO ALIENS

THERE ARE NO FLYING SAUCERS FROM OUTER SPACE

THE MILITARY DOES NOT HAVE FREE ENERGY TECHNOLOGY, hidden or otherwise

 :o   ::)   :P

Until I see solid proof of any of those three statements  I am going back to Dragons' Faeries and Elves and trying to sell a few rocks to pay for food for my Ferrets. At least those are REAL   :P

(http://the-book-ferret.tumblr.com/image/159307762923)

Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: A51Watcher on April 08, 2018, 10:01:58 pm


But image analysis reveals those glowy things are surrounded by gravity distortion fields.

In fact they process exactly like the craft at Area 51. The glittering one off to the left is what caught my eye initially and processes the same.

How close you get to inspect is up to you. You will have to speak to the base commander about hands on access.


But camping on the outskirts will provide a view of the impossible speeds and maneuvers.

And bring some night vision gear willya?
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: A51Watcher on April 08, 2018, 10:09:56 pm
Seems I am not the only one on Jerremy's case

humanoidlord
posted on Apr, 8 2018 @ 07:08 PM link (http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread1203893/pg2#pid23301152)   
better question: how did Jeremy Lockerbell gain access to the ranch
also the owner is obviously Mr bigelow, its way easier to continue research away from prying eyes

I am however surprised that ATS doesn't know that Robert Bigelow owns Skin Walker ranch... it hasn't exactly been a secret and is all over the internet...

But I disagree with Springer... a company or corporation is listed PUBLICLY so looking up ownership of any duly registered company is open to anyone  Same with who owns a domain... that is why there is a WHOIS database and the law requires the owner of a domain to be listed in that database.  I get an annual email from my server requesting to update my contact info (if changed) or lose the domain

Jeremy Corbell STILL owns TheRealJohnLear.com and there is nothing I can do about it  It either has to be John or Marille that contacts the IP company that is hosting the site.


And so what does the WHOIS tell you about the owner of the domain for the image analysis team?



Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: Sgt.Rocknroll on April 08, 2018, 10:17:30 pm
Well okay...
Until I see solid proof of any of those three statements  I am going back to Dragons' Faeries and Elves and trying to sell a few rocks to pay for food for my Ferrets. At least those are REAL   :P

(http://the-book-ferret.tumblr.com/image/159307762923)

There is no proof. Only 1st hand accounts by people with dubious credentials. Or 2nd & 3rd hand accounts brought out to the public with the sole purpose of attention and the lure of money. Scientifically Unproven graphic manipulation of photos or film, passed off as proof is illegitimate hogwash.

I’m with you Z, bring on the dragons!
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 08, 2018, 10:20:15 pm
But image analysis reveals those glowy things are surrounded by gravity distortion fields.

Hmmm  well perhaps changing color values of shades of gray may reveal some more details but are they gravity fields or just levels of light? 

I don't really doubt you and Bob caught some craft though I am not sure about that process

The way I understand it is that it just changes color values for various shades  like this image of BLUE  Can you read what that says?

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-5Y7uWModlvA/WsRxt5lnPMI/AAAAAAAAAMI/7WLMFYfn760EfhDqWOsat3PVJUY8pRgeACK8BGAs/s512/jim.png) 

Well the text is in almost the same blue, but in this case 10 values off. The human eye cannot see such details (though many claim to :P )

So change the one value of blue to say green and the message appears

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-8Wk4k8xZgrg/WsSZfEUP6zI/AAAAAAAAAMs/wlW5xH5EFs8GKSEVDIZixtCu_Y7CL2VDgCK8BGAs/s512/jim1.png)

Quote
In fact they process exactly like the craft at Area 51. The glittering one off to the left is what caught my eye initially and processes the same.

Well they would... as the same process is used.

Quote
How close you get to inspect is up to you. You will have to speak to the base commander about hands on access.

Pretty sure he will say NO :P As I am sure that YOU didn't speak to him either to get access to lay hands on one


Quote
But camping on the outskirts will provide a view of the impossible speeds and maneuvers.
And bring some night vision gear willya?

I have seen those speeds and maneuvers on several occasions  the first time was as a teen sitting on a beach in Toronto and this thing flew along the horizon in a wave pattern at high speed then suddenly shot up at 45 degrees and was gone in seconds (That is what started my interest) and just a few days ago looking south east from my house where two bright objects twirling about that just blinked out and were gone

As to night vision  Those are expensive and John's generation 3 one was stolen.

As I can barely cover current bills, that night scope will have to wait

Can I borrow yours?  :D
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 08, 2018, 10:27:24 pm
I will however continue to post items of interest and follow the current story

Sadly there has been little new stuff of value in the UFO department and mostly we are seing old stuff rehashed and redefined by the new kids on the block. most of who have no clue and are adding all sorts of 'extras' to the old story

Tom Delonge? Can't even answer simple questions about mars... but suddenly he is a UFO expert and all the groupies are gaga over him because he is a star.

I certainly HOPE omething real comes of all this mess...  but I am not holding my breath

The moment I sae that HAL PUTHOFF was on that team?  Well there goes that. Hal has had his finger in EVERY topic I have researched in UFO' Free Energy, Remote Viewing, Psychic Spies and even Stargates

As far as I can see... Hal Puthoff IS the Smoking Man

Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 08, 2018, 10:32:03 pm
A51Watcher

If you want any of your material posted on the living moon website just put it together or point me to the thrads you want copied

I know you have your own site for your team, but we still get over 4 million vies a month.

I haven't done so yet as most of your stuff is in the private room

Choice is yours :D  I will even add the links to your site  As I have no pony in this race anyway, at least you will get more exposure

The advantage to the website is there is no way to comment :P  So it's "Just the Facts Ma'am"
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: A51Watcher on April 08, 2018, 11:31:18 pm
Hmmm  well perhaps changing color values of shades of gray may reveal some more details but are they gravity fields or just levels of light? 

Not likely since there are large fields of black between the red gravity clouds and the rest of the craft. These clouds often form the shape of providing a constant hole for the craft to fall into. In fact these clouds often form the shapes described by Bob on his web page in graphics format.

No other lights ever processed form surrounding red gravity clouds.


Quote
I don't really doubt you and Bob caught some craft though I am not sure about that process

The way I understand it is that it just changes color values for various shades  like this image of BLUE  Can you read what that says?

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-5Y7uWModlvA/WsRxt5lnPMI/AAAAAAAAAMI/7WLMFYfn760EfhDqWOsat3PVJUY8pRgeACK8BGAs/s512/jim.png) 

Well the test is in almost the same blue, but in this case 10 values off. The human eye cannot see such details (though many claim to :P )

So change the one value of blue to say green and the message appears

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-8Wk4k8xZgrg/WsSZfEUP6zI/AAAAAAAAAMs/wlW5xH5EFs8GKSEVDIZixtCu_Y7CL2VDgCK8BGAs/s512/jim1.png)

Well they would... as the same process is used.


No - Because we have found that no other lights of any kind process like the lights from gravity propulsion craft, period.

These lights produce an unmistakable signature in the hidden pixels in the image.

You understand the basics of the hidden pixel process well and even performed the process yourself.

So the results are not in question.


Quote
Pretty sure he will say NO :P As I am sure that YOU didn't speak to him either to get access to lay hands on one

You are correct Sir!

Quote
I have seen those speeds and maneuvers on several occasions  the first time was as a teen sitting on a beach in Toronto and this thing flew along the horizon in a wave pattern at high speed then suddenly shot up at 45 degrees and was gone in seconds (That is what started my interest) and just a few days ago looking south east from my house where two bright objects twirling about that just blinked out and were gone

As to night vision  Those are expensive and John's generation 3 one was stolen.

As I can barely cover current bills, that night scope will have to wait

Can I borrow yours?  :D

When I manage to pick one up, sure!  8)
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: A51Watcher on April 08, 2018, 11:37:04 pm
I will however continue to post items of interest and follow the current story

Sadly there has been little new stuff of value in the UFO department and mostly we are seing old stuff rehashed and redefined by the new kids on the block. most of who have no clue and are adding all sorts of 'extras' to the old story

Tom Delonge? Can't even answer simple questions about mars... but suddenly he is a UFO expert and all the groupies are gaga over him because he is a star.

I certainly HOPE omething real comes of all this mess...  but I am not holding my breath

The moment I sae that HAL PUTHOFF was on that team?  Well there goes that. Hal has had his finger in EVERY topic I have researched in UFO' Free Energy, Remote Viewing, Psychic Spies and even Stargates

As far as I can see... Hal Puthoff IS the Smoking Man

Grant Cameron has been flip flopping on this whole issue for quite some time. One day Tom is surrounded by the Aviary being played like a fiddle. The next day it's Tom and his boys are exciting stuff because it's all government verified.

For me so far it's all been nothingburgers.


Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: A51Watcher on April 08, 2018, 11:39:58 pm
A51Watcher

If you want any of your material posted on the living moon website just put it together or point me to the thrads you want copied

I know you have your own site for your team, but we still get over 4 million vies a month.

I haven't done so yet as most of your stuff is in the private room

Choice is yours :D  I will even add the links to your site  As I have no pony in this race anyway, at least you will get more exposure

The advantage to the website is there is no way to comment :P  So it's "Just the Facts Ma'am"


Very generous thanks! I will let you know.  8)


Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: A51Watcher on April 08, 2018, 11:48:21 pm

BTW have the EVER actually shot anyone for climbing those fences?  :D



Dunno. Anyone ever had the sack to try?  :P


Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 08, 2018, 11:49:48 pm
For me so far it's all been nothingburgers.

Shakespeare (Sir Francis Bacon) said it best  "Much Ado About Nothing" And that is the problem...

Cameron really got burned with the Hillary/Podesta thing... pity that

John Lear lost his mine thanks to Harry Reid and he was behind that whole Bundy Ranch caper...

and Hal Puthoff has been my Nemesis since I started this LOL

Col John Alexander is on Facebook, lives in Las Vegas now... but he is such an active Trump hater you can't even talk to him

PS Generation 3 night vision lets you see HUNDREDS of the plasma critters, even under city lighting conditions. Out at John's mine, 4000 feet high and no lights, they were swarming
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 08, 2018, 11:51:52 pm
Dunno. Anyone ever had the sack to try?  :P

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQ17iUfL-Gc
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 08, 2018, 11:59:20 pm
Meanwhile at Area 51 1/2 ...

Air Force identifies Thunderbirds pilot killed in F-16 crash


(https://www.armytimes.com/resizer/gJhvjosQP1-TWLxId9cpzxIBQc8=/770x433/filters:quality(100)/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-mco.s3.amazonaws.com/public/NKTAQ2OVBVGNBDQ5UMFFTEFDBM.jpg)

VIDEO (http://blob:https://www.airforcetimes.com/52fcd768-f1e9-483b-be29-3fa4c45190cb)

U.S. Air Force Air Demonstration Squadron Slot Pilot Thunderbird 4, Maj. Stephen Del Bagno was killed at about 10:30 a.m. during routine training on April 4.
The Air Force on Thursday identified the Thunderbirds pilot killed in the F-16 crash at the Nevada Test and Training range as Maj. Stephen Del Bagno.

Del Bagno was killed at about 10:30 a.m. Wednesday during what the Air Force called a routine aerial demonstration training flight.

“We are mourning the loss of Maj. Del Bagno,” Brig. Gen. Jeannie Leavitt, commander of the 57th Wing at Nellis Air Force Base in Nevada, said in a release. “He was an integral part of the team, and our hearts are heavy with his loss. We ask everyone to provide his family and friends the space to heal during this difficult time.”

Del Bagno, of Valencia, California, was an experienced pilot in his first season with the Thunderbirds, according to his biography on the squadron’s official website. He was the squadron’s slot pilot and flew its No. 4 jet.

Del Bagno graduated from Utah Valley State University in 2005 and got his commission when he graduated from Officer Training School at Maxwell Air Force Base in Alabama in 2007.

He served as an F-35A evaluator pilot and chief of standardization and evaluation with the 58th Fighter Squadron at Eglin Air Force Base in Florida before joining the Thunderbirds. He also was a civilian flight instructor, corporate pilot, skywriter and a banner tow pilot before joining the Air Force.

The Thunderbirds website said Del Bagno had more than 3,500 total flight hours in 30 different aircraft, including 1,400 hours as an Air Force pilot.

Del Bagno, whose call sign was Cajun, was the first F-35 pilot to serve on the Thunderbirds, Nellis said in a June 2017 release announcing the newly-added members of the 2018 team. As the Thunderbirds’ slot pilot, Del Bagno flew in close formation, just behind the team’s No. 1 aircraft and between the lead aircraft’s two wingmen to create its signature diamond formation.

He was photographed shaking hands with Vice President Mike Pence when Pence visited the Thunderbirds hangar at Nellis Jan. 11.

Del Bagno’s excitement at becoming a full-fledged member of the team was evident in a Jan. 30 video documenting the moment he and other newly-minted Thunderbirds received their iconic red flight helmets.

“Today was a fantastic day,” Del Bagno said in the video. “It’s an important milestone for the Thunderbirds, putting on the red helmet. Once you don that red helmet, it means you no longer have your instructor in the back seat. So it’s a bit surreal. The safety net’s gone, you’re on your own. It was just fantastic.”

The service’s top leaders released statements expressing their condolences prior to the announcement.

“I am deeply saddened to hear of the loss of one of our Thunderbird pilots today,” Air Force Secretary Heather Wilson tweeted Wednesday evening. “My thoughts and prayers are with all those affected as they grieve and remember their family member, Wingman, and friend.”

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2018/04/05/air-force-identifies-thunderbirds-pilot-killed-in-f-16-crash/

Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: Pimander on April 09, 2018, 05:39:37 am
Tom Delonge? Can't even answer simple questions about mars... but suddenly he is a UFO expert and all the groupies are gaga over him because he is a star.
Delonge isn't a scientist.  Others on the program are.  Delonge's personal views are not reports from any research he is linked to. :)

Quote
The moment I sae that HAL PUTHOFF was on that team?  Well there goes that. Hal has had his finger in EVERY topic I have researched in UFO' Free Energy, Remote Viewing, Psychic Spies and even Stargates

As far as I can see... Hal Puthoff IS the Smoking Man
Non-lethal weapons (EM stuff) is a link.

That would also bring in Rauscher and John Alexander....  Jacques Vallee discussed this years ago but then went quiet on it.

Quote
According to author Jim Schnabel (and confirmed by Dr. Puthoff), he served at the NSA in the early 1960's during his tour with the Navy, not the Army as McRae reported above, and later stayed on as a civilian.

Joined SRI in 1971 as a specialist in laser physics. Worked for the previous eight years in the Microwave Laboratory at Stanford University. Served as an officer in the Navy from 1960-63 at Ft. Meade.

Head of the SRI remote viewing program, 1972-85. After he left, Puthoff was replaced with Ed May. Former Naval Intelligence Officer.
http://www.skinwalkerranch.org/rank.html

Microwave weapons are probably involved in certain "encounters".  Think engines deactivated, skin burns and loss of consciousness, time distortion.  Could remote viewing have been partly a test of these technologies and not just a psychic spying program?  Tum, de dum.... :D


Tne day Tom is surrounded by the Aviary being played like a fiddle. The next day it's Tom and his boys are exciting stuff because it's all government verified.

For me so far it's all been nothingburgers.
:-X


And why is Springer closing threads that reveal that Bigalow owns the Ranch?  Doh!
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: Irene on April 09, 2018, 07:16:11 am
Delonge isn't a scientist.  Others on the program are.  Delonge's personal views are not reports from any research he is linked to. :)
Non-lethal weapons (EM stuff) is a link.

That would also bring in Rauscher and John Alexander....  Jacques Vallee discussed this years ago but then went quiet on it.
http://www.skinwalkerranch.org/rank.html (http://www.skinwalkerranch.org/rank.html)

Microwave weapons are probably involved in certain "encounters".  Think engines deactivated, skin burns and loss of consciousness, time distortion.  Could remote viewing have been partly a test of these technologies and not just a psychic spying program?  Tum, de dum.... :D

 :-X

And why is Springer closing threads that reveal that Bigalow owns the Ranch?  Doh!

My guess is he signed an NDA.
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: ArMaP on April 09, 2018, 01:25:01 pm
And why is Springer closing threads that reveal that Bigalow owns the Ranch?  Doh!
If that was the problem why didn't he remove the posts that say Bigelow owns the Ranch?
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: Irene on April 09, 2018, 01:36:08 pm
If that was the problem why didn't he remove the posts that say Bigelow owns the Ranch?

Rocket scientists over there.  ::)
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 09, 2018, 03:14:50 pm
If that was the problem why didn't he remove the posts that say Bigelow owns the Ranch?

EVERYONE in UFOlogy knows that Robert Bigelow owns that ranch... What Springer is wanting to hide (at least for now) is HIS involvement (and perhaps ATS's) in that deal... The Gut said as much... that Springer went out to the Ranch with George Knapp and Jeremy 4 Names...

It's all about the money... like the time ATS spent $100,000 on that motor home to go to the Gilliland Ranch  that didn't produce much in the way of results.

Same MO that time  except the 'Star" was Robbie Williams...

I mean just look at these serious researchers looking for UFO's  LOL  (Sorry Johnny :P )

(http://thelivingmoon.com/47john_lear/04images/ATS/Fame_gone_to_head.JPG)

Back in 2007 at the San Jose UFO conference when we were all best of buddies and Springer suggested Pegasus put their stuff under ATS's roof (because he said my server couldn't handle the traffic :P ) he also told myself, John Lear and John Rhodes over drinks that ATS had received 1 miilion dollars from each of three Jewish businessmen to keep ATS going.

At the time we were going to build a booth and travel to various conventions.  The day after we returned that all changed...

The main reason I was banned from ATS was I asked too many questions about money over there :P  Seems they are touchy about that and prefer members to believe they are struggling to make ends meet :D

Yeah but they can afford a 100,000 motor home rental 

PS Springer's wife works for, and supports, Halliburton. And yes I have the documentations from both ATS and Halliburton


Number one rule applies

FOLLOW THE MONEY

And there is a LOT of money to be made in this Skin Walker deal
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 09, 2018, 03:25:32 pm
Jacques Vallee discussed this years ago but then went quiet on it.

Jacques Vallee also denied what happened at Skin Walker  which is likely why he went silent  :P

Yes Rauscher is still around and John Alexander is on my list at FB

Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 09, 2018, 03:41:18 pm
By the way  just so everyone is clear..

I trust ArMaP 100% to not being a spy for us or for them. He has full access to the Pegasus Server and has worked hard to keep us running

Just in case anyone was thinking 'conflict of interest' here

That's for any 'lurkers' that are reading this thread too :P
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: Pimander on April 09, 2018, 04:48:04 pm
Jacques Vallee also denied what happened at Skin Walker  which is likely why he went silent  :P
He was definitely on to something at one point in my opinion.

Quote
Yes Rauscher is still around and John Alexander is on my list at FB
Yes I know because he's on mine too.   ::)

If that was the problem why didn't he remove the posts that say Bigelow owns the Ranch?
Well he did say he wanted the privacy of the owner to be respected...  But if he wanted that then why do we know he visited the ranch?  Publicity?  ???
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: Irene on April 09, 2018, 04:53:49 pm
He was definitely on to something at one point in my opinion.
Yes I know because he's on mine too.   ::)
Well he did say he wanted the privacy of the owner to be respected...  But if he wanted that then why do we know he visited the ranch? Publicity? ???

One word ~ EGO.
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: Sgt.Rocknroll on April 09, 2018, 04:56:02 pm
Trap being set or misdirection. Give enough bait until the hook is set.
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: Irene on April 09, 2018, 05:01:11 pm
By the way  just so everyone is clear..

I trust ArMaP 100% to not being a spy for us or for them. He has full access to the Pegasus Server and has worked hard to keep us running

Just in case anyone was thinking 'conflict of interest' here

That's for any 'lurkers' that are reading this thread too :P


+1 here.  ;) ;D

Any problems and I just assume he put too much piri piri on something.
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: Pimander on April 09, 2018, 05:02:58 pm
Trap being set or misdirection. Give enough bait until the hook is set.
You could well be right. :)
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 09, 2018, 05:14:43 pm
Well he did say he wanted the privacy of the owner to be respected...  But if he wanted that then why do we know he visited the ranch?  Publicity?  ???

Springer was always the only owner I really liked over there, but he likes to plasy games

When John Lear was the poster boy at ATS  Springer would also post on Reality Uncovered, the place where all the banned evil skeptics hung out  LOL I still have some saved post of Springer at that forum

Like THIS ONE

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/47john_lear/04images/ATS/Springer_001.png)
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: ArMaP on April 09, 2018, 05:31:03 pm
EVERYONE in UFOlogy knows that Robert Bigelow owns that ranch... What Springer is wanting to hide (at least for now) is HIS involvement (and perhaps ATS's) in that deal... The Gut said as much... that Springer went out to the Ranch with George Knapp and Jeremy 4 Names...
The GUT said that because Springer said it, as you can see here (http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread1195773/pg103#pid23284040).
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: ArMaP on April 09, 2018, 05:32:14 pm
Well he did say he wanted the privacy of the owner to be respected...  But if he wanted that then why do we know he visited the ranch?  Publicity?  ???
Knowing that he visited the ranch doesn't tell us who owns it.
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: Pimander on April 09, 2018, 05:50:08 pm
Knowing that he visited the ranch doesn't tell us who owns it.
What I mean is that who visits the ranch is private unless somebody makes that information public - which Springer did.

If a person visits my property and publicises the event then it is no longer a private matter.
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: ArMaP on April 09, 2018, 06:14:06 pm
What I mean is that who visits the ranch is private unless somebody makes that information public - which Springer did.
That doesn't tell anyone who owns the property, and that was the topic.
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: ArMaP on April 09, 2018, 06:15:41 pm
That doesn't tell anyone who owns the property, and that was the topic.

Quote
If a person visits my property and publicises the event then it is no longer a private matter.
The fact that that person visited your property is not private, who owns your property is still a private matter, as it wasn't publicized by anyone.
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 09, 2018, 07:10:52 pm
who owns your property is still a private matter, as it wasn't publicized by anyone.

No it is NOT  Property ownership is a matter of PUBLIC record in the USA  Anyone can go to the local assessors office for the county they are interested in and online look up who is the current owner, did he pay his property tax, how much they paid for it and ALL the past owners

The service is FREE and open to the public  Always has been

Example"  John Lear's address is easy to find on the web, it's posted everywhere LOL Every real estate agent has that address listed :P  1414 N Hollywood Blvd, Las Vegas, NV 89110

So use that address at the Clark County Assessors Office Website and you get all the records back to when the house was built, current owner taxes house value and aerial photos

http://www.clarkcountynv.gov/assessor/Pages/PropertyRecords.aspx?H=redrock&P=assrrealprop/site.aspx


You can search by parcel number faster if you don't have name or address. If you don't have that you can use the satellite map and find the house and it will give you parcel number. THIS is Bigelow Aerospace's house on Eastern   A simple google search for Bigelow Aerospace Corporate Office gives you;

Address: 4640 S Eastern Ave, Las Vegas, NV 89119
Phone: (702) 456-1606

The link below is the map showing the property and the parcel number.  A record search shows Bigelow Nevada LLC as original owner, but currently it is under Charleston Apartments LLC, one of his wife's companies. Don't forget the Bigelows made it rich in renting weekly apartments

http://gisgate.co.clark.nv.us/ow/?@793573,26740137,9

You need to find out who owns a business? That is also public record...  either single proprietor partnership or corporation. Every business in all the counties must first file with the state

Here is the State of Nevada Business search
https://nvsos.gov/sosentitysearch/

There IS NO PRIVACY in property or business ownership. Springer is delusional about that :P

The best you can do is have a company you own buy another company or property so it takes longer to search :P

Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 09, 2018, 07:32:56 pm
Seems it is the same in Portugal :P

Portugal Public Records
http://publicrecords.searchsystems.net/Other_Nations/Europe_Free_Public_Records/Portugal_Public_Records/

Property Records
Search the Portugal Government Predial Online service for land registration property records, deeds, mortgages, liens, and building information.
http://www.predialonline.pt/PredialOnline/
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: ArMaP on April 10, 2018, 01:17:59 am
No it is NOT  Property ownership is a matter of PUBLIC record in the USA
I didn't mean that it was secret or something like that, look at the context of my posts.

What I meant was that the fact that one person visits another person's property doesn't make it public who owns the property.

And yes, it's the same in Portugal, but you have to pay for it, and to ask it online you need to use a Citizen's Card.
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: Pimander on April 10, 2018, 04:29:21 am
What I meant was that the fact that one person visits another person's property doesn't make it public who owns the property.
I agree with that.

I was suggesting that Mark/Springer was not respecting privacy by going public about his visit.  It is called hypocrisy.

On the matter of Springer being mischievous and still communicating with banned  ATS  members (including me), to be honest if it was just his decision then not all of us would still be banned.  Some of it is to keep certain admins at ATS happy.  He knows full well that some of the bans were unfair.  8)

None of us like abusive posting but many of us were treated differently to other members there because of who we are not what we supposedly did wrong.
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: Pimander on April 10, 2018, 07:10:25 am
and Hal Puthoff has been my Nemesis since I started this LOL
(https://to-the-stars-web-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/img/blog-post-hero/15228839901c0bce0d199f4384242a227ed31b8cf2.jpg)

Dr. Puthoff Wins Dinsdale Award

TTS Academy’s co-founder and VP of Science and Technology, Dr. Hal Puthoff, has been chosen to receive the 2018 Dinsdale Award of the Society for Scientific Exploration.

The Society has presented the Dinsdale Award every two years since 1992 for significant contributions to the expansion of human understanding through the study of unexplained phenomena.

 8)
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: A51Watcher on April 10, 2018, 12:34:20 pm

re: Zorgan's question on possible reflection of light.

Well if we were seeing reflection of light in the shades of black process, why is the shape displayed in each frame not the same? The shapes are completely different in each frame. And why are the shapes not linear since they are reflecting off a smooth linear surface?

Good question but doesn't fit the evidence.


Now lets deal with the assertion by a member that is unsupported by the facts per usual.

Quote
Scientifically Unproven graphic manipulation of photos or film, passed off as proof is illegitimate hogwash.

Do you even know what a scientific method is??

Clue: An experiment performed by one researcher who then publishes the results and the method by which this result was obtained, so that his peers may then perform the same experiment and see if they get the same results. 
 
THAT is scientific method my friend.


And that is exactly what the creator of the shades of black process has done. And his peers have confirmed the result.

Beyond that, professionals in the image analysis field have confirmed the results and this method. Are you a professional in this field?


So enough with the emotional opinions on science that have no basis in fact.

You had your chance to pipe up back when the shades of black thread was created. About a dozen members including Zorgon joined in and participated in recreating the experiment. That is called science!

Why don't you try it, instead of just flaming rude emotional comments that have no basis in fact?

There are dozens of stills and videos From Bob and myself on this site.

Grab a frame and get yourself a basic paint program with a color replacer function.

Drag your mouse across the image and when you find one that is not the same value as your background, tell the replace function to change the color of every pixel of that value in the image, to a color of your choice.

Very simple and easy. No one has ever come back and said 'Hey it doesn't work!' because that is scientifically impossible.  ;)


Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: Sgt.Rocknroll on April 10, 2018, 01:41:19 pm
See my PM... 8)
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: A51Watcher on April 10, 2018, 02:02:42 pm


Uh oh, a secret rebuttal to my post so powerful that world is not allowed to see it!

This should be good.


Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 10, 2018, 02:26:44 pm
I was suggesting that Mark/Springer was not respecting privacy by going public about his visit.  It is called hypocrisy.

Yes as Tweety says "He's a hippotwit"  :P  But yeah we call that a teaser... dangle out a sentence that says "I was there stay tuned"  then ban or block threads when people react to it.

Well I don't miss ATS LOL   It is only natural for ANY researcher, pro or not, to want to know WHO is behind WHAt  and the ownership of Skin Walker has been known for years  Its all over the net. Bigelow never made it a secret that he bought it, or that he gave money to UFO groups and his 4 million donation to the UNLV for paranormal studies was all over local news :P

So WHY is it a big deal?   My only concern is how this Jeremy 4 Names has weaseled himself in to this money mess... All I care about is he did wrong by John Lear and has no contract, yet has ALL of John's files and info.  If John leaves this earth, there is nothing stopping 4 Names from stealling it all... expecially since he already owns TheRealJohnLear.com website

But hey... as I said, I am a small fish. Sure I have a website that gets 4 million monthly views, but we don't have a real team here (as recent posts show is still a problem) and we don't have any big money supporting Pegasus... 

So how do you even begin to fight the money and power behind this new development? With an ex Senator that has a proven history of being an evil scammer at the top, a major rich celebrity, a major news anchor and Bob Lazar's name  in the mix. the money that is backing ATS now tossed in... THEY will drive this anyway they want  and my voice will be a squawk in the dark.

But I bet one day not too long from now I bet I will get to say "I TOLD YOU SO"


Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 10, 2018, 02:38:30 pm
As for the latest DRAMA unfolding :P

I picked this up at an Antique Shoppe a while back

I am willing to loan it out  :P

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/46/83/2e/46832e290a8cfb302fb7bf32c93f97ca.jpg)
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 10, 2018, 02:40:08 pm
A51Watcher

I popped over to your Twitter page  Spotted something interesting

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-yxsIsB70pGw/Ws0uxGxSwqI/AAAAAAAAAUs/mJpAVbqh3lwMzRNecY7gCCj2VTZSgqO8ACK8BGAs/s512/Twitter-001.png)

Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: Sgt.Rocknroll on April 10, 2018, 02:44:47 pm

Uh oh, a secret rebuttal to my post so powerful that world is not allowed to see it!

This should be good.
I was trying not to tie up the thread with useless banter between you and me. But you can't help yourself.
Concerning my post, I was speaking in general terms and at no time did I make reference to anyone on this forum.
If SOME, took it another way, (gulp)( >:(), I apologize for any hurt feelings.
 8)

edit: clarified my post a bit..
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: A51Watcher on April 10, 2018, 03:11:43 pm
As for the latest DRAMA unfolding :P

I picked this up at an Antique Shoppe a while back

I am willing to loan it out  :P

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/46/83/2e/46832e290a8cfb302fb7bf32c93f97ca.jpg)

As I replied to the PM - If you can't stand the heat in the debate forum, get out of the kitchen.

I am quite used to defending my positions.

That is one of the reasons you found me and pulled me away from ATS.

My record still stands over there. Easy enough to look it up.

I sliced and diced ignorant debunkers like there was no tomorrow. I do not suffer fools easily.

That is also no secret.


Also, I rarely if ever pipe up on subjects where I do not know what I am talking about.

Those that do are like shooting fish in a barrel.



Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: A51Watcher on April 10, 2018, 03:15:02 pm
A51Watcher

I popped over to your Twitter page  Spotted something interesting

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-yxsIsB70pGw/Ws0uxGxSwqI/AAAAAAAAAUs/mJpAVbqh3lwMzRNecY7gCCj2VTZSgqO8ACK8BGAs/s512/Twitter-001.png)

Looks like they are data mining YOU for the UFO connection.

Those are not the recommendations I see on that page.





Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: A51Watcher on April 10, 2018, 03:36:08 pm
I was trying not to tie up the thread with useless banter between you and me. But you can't help yourself.
Concerning my post, I was speaking in general terms and at no time did I make reference to anyone on this forum.
If SOME, took it another way, (gulp)( >:(), I apologize for any hurt feelings.
 8)

edit: clarified my post a bit..

Understood. But since the subject of the Image group has been raised several times recently and Zorgon responded, the comment appeared pointed at us, as noticed by others besides myself.


Realize that we all are subject to trolls and debunkers constantly and have been for years.

Am I trigger happy? Sure. We all are.

Sincere Apologies if your comments were not aimed at us.


Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: Sgt.Rocknroll on April 10, 2018, 03:49:20 pm
Understood. But since the subject of the Image group has been raised several times recently and Zorgon responded, the comment appeared pointed at us, as noticed by others besides myself.


Realize that we all are subject to trolls and debunkers constantly and have been for years.

Am I trigger happy? Sure. We all are.

Sincere Apologies if your comments were not aimed at us.
Accepted! So let’s move along, ok?
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: A51Watcher on April 10, 2018, 04:00:19 pm


Ok Zorgon,

So now let's get down to the nitty gritty about allegations about George Knapp.

What exactly are you accusing him of?

Continuing to work with 4 names even after you alerted him via his facebook page what you guys caught 4 names doing?

Do you have a snapshot of that post before he deleted it?

What did it say?

Does George know you, or does he consider you just another random facebook poster?


 
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 10, 2018, 04:45:59 pm
Ok Zorgon,
So now let's get down to the nitty gritty about allegations about George Knapp.
What exactly are you accusing him of?

I suggest you re read this post  3rd paragraph
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=10847.msg142728#msg142728

Quote
Continuing to work with 4 names even after you alerted him via his facebook page what you guys caught 4 names doing?

I have not alerted George of anything... as I said I can only speak on what happened with John and yes that is all documented and I have already posted all that.

Quote
Do you have a snapshot of that post before he deleted it?

Which post? One for George? there isn't one... perhaps re read what I have been saying

Quote
Does George know you,

I have met George on several occasions, once at the atomic museum Area 51 talks and every tyime he shows up at John's parties.  Years ago I turned down an interview with him. I have repeatedly said I don't do interviews or talk shows.

Quote
or does he consider you just another random facebook poster?

Most likely he doesn't consider me much at all  As I said I am just a small fish with no fame, so I would be useless to him.

I will repeat one more time... in neon lights...

So WHY is it a big deal?   My only concern is how this Jeremy 4 Names has weaseled himself in to this money mess... All I care about is he did wrong by John Lear and has no contract, yet has ALL of John's files and info.  If John leaves this earth, there is nothing stopping 4 Names from stealling it all... expecially since he already owns TheRealJohnLear.com website

But hey... as I said, I am a small fish. Sure I have a website that gets 4 million monthly views, but we don't have a real team here (as recent posts show is still a problem) and we don't have any big money supporting Pegasus... 

So how do you even begin to fight the money and power behind this new development? With an ex Senator that has a proven history of being an evil scammer at the top, a major rich celebrity, a major news anchor and Bob Lazar's name  in the mix. the money that is backing ATS now tossed in... THEY will drive this anyway they want  and my voice will be a squawk in the dark.

But I bet one day not too long from now I bet I will get to say "I TOLD YOU SO"



Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 10, 2018, 04:53:26 pm
Are you connected with this group in anyway?  I don't really care either way, just curious...

But it is easy to tell that these guys are only in it for the money  and looks to me (and others) like they are going to toss John Lear under the bus.

Since I have no way to discuss this with Bob lazar, (nor is it really any of my business) I don't know how he is involved or affected

I only know John is concerned and feels helpless and he asked me to help

He is afraid to ask George about any of this because so far George is still his friend. He asked me to take care of it anyway I can, but I have no way to do that other than share our concerns and post what little we can find.

All I can hope for is someone else that has such ability can pick up the torch

What I am seeing is the death of serious UFOlogy...  There will be no real disclosure... it's all about who will get rich. And I am not the only one that has seen this

Maybe because I am outside... I don't have a pony in this race... beyond my personal interest


PS:  John just sent me Bob Lazar's email... so perhaps I will drop him a line and see what he says... I really DO have some radioactive rocks to sell :D
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: Irene on April 10, 2018, 04:56:41 pm
My. 02¢ on Knapp ~

I just watched an hour of video in which he discusses Skinwalker Ranch. His name is on the damn book and he can't get basic details correct.

He's another name in it for the money.

If someone is in it for the money they're useless to us. For people who've been down this road, it isn't about the money. It's about understanding WTF is happening to us and, overall, WTF is going on.
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: A51Watcher on April 10, 2018, 04:59:58 pm


Understood.

I just wanted clarity on who is accused of what.

I don't see Bob in the mix.

And I don't see George complicit in any wrongdoing either.

Is he going to pull a Hymie and knowingly support a fraud like skinwalker? Is he aware of what kind of stunts 4 names has pulled? Time will tell.

I certainly cannot vouch for any of the others you mentioned.


Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 10, 2018, 05:04:12 pm
He's another name in it for the money.

George is a news reporter, until recently retired, from ITeam news. It was him that broke the Bob Lazar story. :P so yeah he is still of some use :P

yes George is about money  He lives in a huge mansion near John Lear...  don't think that came from a newsmans salary :P  But we still live in a capitalist country

I am not upset about people making money... UNLESS they are deliberately obfuscating the issue... which is what I believe is going on.

If I am wrong I will eat humble pie... I don't believe I am wrong

PS  At John's Dec 4th birthday party it was 4 Names that opened the connection to Bob Lazar to attend via Skype... so it's a good bet Bob is aware of things, just not sure if he is being used yet
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: Irene on April 10, 2018, 05:09:00 pm
99.9% of these UFO types are wrecking it for many of us. There is a great deal of obfuscation and you really have to cherry-pick truth from the bones.

I'm getting really tired of wading through all the crap that is thrown at us. Phil Schneider is a good example. Not sure about Cooper.
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: A51Watcher on April 10, 2018, 05:10:51 pm
Are you connected with this group in anyway?  I don't really care either way, just curious...

Nope. But I did send Tom Delonge an email about my team with samples last year shorty after 'the big announcement'.

Never heard back.

Also I pm'd 4 names last year on FB, showing him some examples of our work. He said 'nice!'

Soon as I showed him one from the A51Watcher yt page he went quiet and never responded again and I was blocked. Seems he recognized the handle from here and said UH OH!

Quote
But it is easy to tell that these guys are only in it for the money  and looks to me (and others) like they are going to toss John Lear under the bus.

Since I have no way to discuss this with Bob lazar, (nor is it really any of my business) I don't know how he is involved or affected

I only know John is concerned and feels helpless and he asked me to help

He is afraid to ask George about any of this because so far George is still his friend. He asked me to take care of it anyway I can, but I have no way to do that other than share our concerns and post what little we can find.

All I can hope for is someone else that has such ability can pick up the torch

What I am seeing is the death of serious UFOlogy...  There will be no real disclosure... it's all about who will get rich. And I am not the only one that has seen this

Maybe because I am outside... I don't have a pony in this race... beyond my personal interest


PS:  John just sent me Bob Lazar's email... so perhaps I will drop him a line and see what he says... I really DO have some radioactive rocks to sell :D

It will be sad if George is involved in any way in depriving John of money or pulling a Hymie.


Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 10, 2018, 06:06:12 pm
Also I pm'd 4 names last year on FB, showing him some examples of our work. He said 'nice!'

One of the convos with 4 names after the John lear FB fraud 

Agent X
I can see why Immaculate Deception hasn't come out..hhhmmm???


Jeremy Kenyon Lockyer Corbell
Hi Agent X Thank you for your MANY emails about Immaculate Deception. Clearly you are a big fan of John Lear's, and I do appreciate your interest. I do not however spend time emailing through Facebook, as I simply don't have the bandwidth for it. As I said on my last appearance on Coast to Coast AM


bandwidth? on FB? really? email takes almost zero bandwidth. Besides any decent IP provider is doing unlimited bandwidth and Godaddy is one of them
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: Pimander on April 10, 2018, 08:14:28 pm
Am I trigger happy? Sure. We all are.
I think the Americans among us are more so than most, with your gun metaphors...  ;D

You'll be shooting the breeze next.

I'm getting really tired of wading through all the crap that is thrown at us. Phil Schneider is a good example. Not sure about Cooper.
If you are referring to Bill Cooper and are not prepared to read millions of words then take it from me (I have waded through serious volumes of crap) and read things us veterans suggest or trust your gut...

And Petrus is wrong in one sense, there is more than just bollocks.  I have seen a UFO and it was a craft.  Not misidentification of a plane, not swamp gas, not a plastic bag in the wind...  No shit.  A craft.  Up fairly close.  Not an hallucination (I discussed it with people who were there).  Noises, EM phenomena, the lot.  UFOlogy may have some answers but wading through shit can be tiring.
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: Irene on April 10, 2018, 08:20:54 pm
I think the Americans among us are more so than most, with your gun metaphors...  ;D

You'll be shooting the breeze next.
If you are referring to Bill Cooper and are not prepared to read millions of words then take it from me (I have waded through serious volumes of crap) and read things us veterans suggest or trust your gut...

And Petrus is wrong in one sense, there is more than just bollocks.  I have seen a UFO and it was a craft.  Not misidentification of a plane, not swamp gas, not a plastic bag in the wind...  No poop.  A craft.  Up fairly close.  Not an hallucination (I discussed it with people who were there).  Noises, EM phenomena, the lot.  UFOlogy may have some answers but wading through poop can be tiring.

Are you a contactee CE3 or above?
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: space otter on April 10, 2018, 08:22:41 pm

hey Pim

have you ever given any thought that it might have been from another dimension rather than outer space ?

i know what i saw also but i have rethought the origins of it
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: Pimander on April 10, 2018, 08:25:20 pm
Are you a contactee CE3 or above?
I can only be sure about CE2.

And Zorgon will you turn that Fuc4ing swear word blocker off for the work s4it.  Everyone knows poop is the same thing.  JEEEEEEZUS!!!
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: Pimander on April 10, 2018, 08:29:56 pm
have you ever given any thought that it might have been from another dimension rather than outer space ?
It could be from anywhere.  However, it was definitely physical as it's effects on us were physical. I am also pretty certain that it was technological (definitely not a plasma critter or biological entity).
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: space otter on April 10, 2018, 08:34:47 pm


yes to all of that

nothing i experienced has changed for me except my thoughts of where it came from

with the time line stuff i feel that we are overlooking something
and that something maybe a crossover of some type involving dimensions..

as i watched the vehicle leave it was like it went behind a curtain..so that's where i am with the dimensional thing

same experience..perhaps different source than i thought
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: Irene on April 10, 2018, 08:37:26 pm

yes to all of that

nothing i experienced has changed for me except my thoughts of where it came from

with the time line stuff i feel that we are overlooking something
and that something maybe a crossover of some type involving dimensions..

as i watched the vehicle leave it was like it went behind a curtain..so that's where i am with the dimensional thing

same experience..perhaps different source than i thought

MHO, we're dealing with either interdimensionals or time travelers, probably from our future.

Whoever they are, the f**kers really like to play sadistic games with us.
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: space otter on April 10, 2018, 08:39:49 pm


Quote
MHO, we're dealing with either interdimensionals or time travelers, probably from our future.


YEP
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: Pimander on April 10, 2018, 08:44:37 pm
same experience..perhaps different source than i thought
Much of the darker CE3 stuff (abductions etc) seem to be related to the older folk lore type material and inter-dimensionals.  I'd say that is a no brainer.  But in the light of many facts I wouldn't be surprised at all if there is something quite remarkable hidden from us in this dimension... :)

There is definitely research connected to CE3 contacts ongoing that I hope will see the light of day.  But like with the nuts and bolts craft, vested interests and money seem to be involved.  I say we scrap Capitalism.  Post Capitalism is long overdue.  Is Money really worth this much?  ???

Disclaimer: Don't forget what I admitted earlier regarding disclosure....
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 11, 2018, 05:25:05 pm
And Zorgon will you turn that Fuc4ing swear word blocker off for the work s4it.  Everyone knows poop is the same thing.  JEEEEEEZUS!!!

Okay I will change to read perfume :P


(https://i.pinimg.com/564x/a5/e6/ca/a5e6ca13f194d7c97b87ee4524eb76aa.jpg)
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: A51Watcher on April 12, 2018, 12:40:22 pm
If you time it right they will be close enough to throw a rock and hit.
Hey... it worked for me at least!  ;)  :P

So... you are claiming you dented one of their saucers and lived to tell about it? 

And you will have that footage available soon, yes?


Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: Irene on April 12, 2018, 01:03:22 pm
Much of the darker CE3 stuff (abductions etc) seem to be related to the older folk lore type material and inter-dimensionals.  I'd say that is a no brainer.  But in the light of many facts I wouldn't be surprised at all if there is something quite remarkable hidden from us in this dimension...  :)

There is definitely research connected to CE3 contacts ongoing that I hope will see the light of day.  But like with the nuts and bolts craft, vested interests and money seem to be involved.  I say we scrap Capitalism.  Post Capitalism is long overdue. Is Money really worth this much?  ???

Disclaimer: Don't forget what I admitted earlier regarding disclosure....

I believe we're surrounded by Predator-type things. Not necessarily reptilian, or like the alien in "Signs", but operating in invisibility.

I've said it before in my posts and, again, it would explain a wide range of bizarre sh*t that happens to me and, incidentally, why animals seem to be looking at things that "aren't there".

More importantly, it would explain some of the things that happened at Skinwalker Ranch.

Most people are unable to suspend disbelief long enough to grasp what is very likely going on. They won't leave "the box".
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: A51Watcher on April 12, 2018, 01:37:48 pm
I believe we're surrounded by Predator-type things. Not necessarily reptilian, or like the alien in "Signs", but operating in invisibility.

I've said it before in my posts and, again, it would explain a wide range of bizarre sh*t that happens to me and, incidentally, why animals seem to be looking at things that "aren't there".

More importantly, it would explain some of the things that happened at Skinwalker Ranch.

Most people are unable to suspend disbelief long enough to grasp what is very likely going on. They won't leave "the box".

I came across a lot of good evidence of what you say Irene not only through media but reliable first hand witnesses locally.

Beings partially appearing before them in their homes and elsewhere. Sometimes just legs walking down the hall, other times just the torso on up. Sometimes lawn gnome creatures, sometimes greys.

Too much to go into right now, but it would seem to fit what you and Sky speak of in terms of possibly inter dimensional.

As far as 'animals seem to be looking at things that "aren't there" - 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiuJSU4TLCY


Maybe they have Deuem vision...  8)


Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: Irene on April 12, 2018, 01:52:07 pm
I came across a lot of good evidence of what you say Irene not only through media but reliable fist hand witnesses locally.

Beings partially appearing before them in their homes and elsewhere. Sometimes just legs walking down the hall, other times just the torso on up. Sometimes lawn gnome creatures, sometimes greys.

Too much to go into right now, but it would seem to fit what you and Sky speak of in terms of possibly inter dimensional.

As far as 'animals seem to be looking at things that "aren't there" -

Maybe they have Deuem vision...  8)

I very much appreciate the support, A51.  :)

Two true stories about my cats from years ago ~

1. I was standing in the dining room having just arrived home. I called my cats as I always do. They're trained like dogs, so coming when I call them is what they do, in fact, they come running.

Mrs., my brown tabby, came flying out of the master bedroom and came to a screeching halt and sank back on her haunches. Her pupils were huge and the hair stood up on her spine.

She bobbled her head, as animals do when they want to get a good look, then turned tail and slunk off quickly back to the bedroom.

Naturally, I turned around, but there was nothing there. I couldn't see it. She had though and, obviously, it wasn't something good, which fits the pattern of my contact experiences.

2. I was awakened in the very early hours of the morning by a sound in the living room. Mrs. had been sleeping right next to me, but she was wide awake. I started to sit up, but she stepped up on my chest and pushed me back down.

I tried to get up again and she pushed me back down. That time I stayed down. My cat had just freaked me out. A couple of minutes passed then she stepped down and laid down.

There's a lot more going on than we see. Fact.
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: Pimander on April 12, 2018, 02:22:52 pm
Whether you agree with the conclusions of the image analysis team, accept any pictures (even the ones from USAF gun cameras) - or not - I KNOW FOR A FACT some of these craft exist.

If you think we are making it all up then you won't accept it unless you see it yourself.  If you accept we are credible and believe us then you know it's real.  What does your gut tell you?

For me it is explaining it that is the interesting part.  There is no question the craft exist.

There is also no question the contact experiences are real. Again what they are experiences of is the interesting part.  Perhaps an even more interesting question is why certain people and families have the experiences and others never do.  If they are real surely those groups are important to look at?


ETA:  Almost anything can be faked using modern technology.  So the old evidence is actually incredibly significant in a way...  Also significant is that if we can fake this shit using modern technology than a lot of what we could see in the past might have been "faked" by "others" with similar technology.  So do we accept anything at all is real or not?
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: A51Watcher on April 12, 2018, 02:55:31 pm
Whether you agree with the conclusions of the image analysis team, accept any pictures (even the ones from USAF gun cameras) - or not - I KNOW FOR A FACT some of these craft exist.

If you think we are making it all up then you won't accept it unless you see it yourself.  If you accept we are credible and believe us then you know it's real.  What does your gut tell you?

For me it is explaining it that is the interesting part.  There is no question the craft exist.

There is also no question the contact experiences are real. Again what they are experiences of is the interesting part.  Perhaps an even more interesting question is why certain people and families have the experiences and others never do.  If they are real surely those groups are important to look at?


ETA:  Almost anything can be faked using modern technology.  So the old evidence is actually incredibly significant in a way...  Also significant is that if we can fake this poop using modern technology than a lot of what we could see in the past might have been "faked" by "others" with similar technology.  So do we accept anything at all is real or not?

Trust ol Pim to cut to the chase in any debate. Well said!

re: the conclusions of the image analysis team ... that is one point in question.

Since the results have been proven scientifically valid, what conclusions are to be drawn from the results?

As with all areas of new information, who do you consult for answers?

- Consult the experts in the field.

- Sort it out for yourself as best you can.

The conclusions I post from the image analysis team are a combination of both of the above.

I agree with the rest of your points. They mirror Zorgon's seething frustration with the continued coverup and self induced oblivion of others.

At least you haven't surrendered to the temptation to join Voltron's flock! (yet)  ;)  8)


 
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: ArMaP on April 12, 2018, 05:25:04 pm
Irene, those two stories reminded me of a short story from Neil Gaiman, The Price (http://www.bitchwick.com/amacker/bean/price.html).
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: Irene on April 12, 2018, 05:31:04 pm
Irene, those two stories reminded me of a short story from Neil Gaiman, The Price (http://www.bitchwick.com/amacker/bean/price.html).

I'm knitting right now, so I've only been reading replies in the forum as they hit my Inbox.

That being said, what I've told everyone at this forum regarding my experiences is true. I've never read any books by this man, Gaiman, because until now I've never heard of him. So I don't know what you're talking about.

Exactly what are you saying?
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: Pimander on April 12, 2018, 05:40:25 pm
Totally off topic but....

Don't forget, cats have long been regarded as supernatural guardians.  The Egyptian Goddess that protected the home was signified by the image of a cat.

Bast (later Bastet): As protector of Lower Egypt, Bast, she was seen as defender of the pharaoh, and consequently of the later chief male deity, Ra. Along with the other lioness goddesses, she would occasionally be depicted as the embodiment of the Eye of Ra. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bastet

Later she was represented as a domestic cat.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/90/Bastet_Istanbul_museum.JPG/170px-Bastet_Istanbul_museum.JPG)
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: Irene on April 12, 2018, 05:54:16 pm
Totally off topic but....

Don't forget, cats have long been regarded as supernatural guardians.  The Egyptian Goddess that protected the home was signified by the image of a cat.

Bast (later Bastet): As protector of Lower Egypt, Bast, she was seen as defender of the pharaoh, and consequently of the later chief male deity, Ra. Along with the other lioness goddesses, she would occasionally be depicted as the embodiment of the Eye of Ra. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bastet (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bastet)

Later she was represented as a domestic cat.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/90/Bastet_Istanbul_museum.JPG/170px-Bastet_Istanbul_museum.JPG)

I think there was a pretty good reason the Egyptians worshipped cats. They knew the little furballs were connected to another dimension.
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: Irene on April 12, 2018, 06:00:56 pm
Irene, those two stories reminded me of a short story from Neil Gaiman, The Price (http://www.bitchwick.com/amacker/bean/price.html).

Okay, didn't notice you'd linked to the story. I can see similarity, but I wouldn't say it's the same.

I still feel compelled to defend my posts regarding my contacts. If anyone reads my posts concerning my contacts they'll see I'm very consistent in the details.

Respectfully,

Irene  :)
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: ArMaP on April 12, 2018, 06:19:51 pm
Exactly what are you saying?
I was saying exactly what I wrote that your stories reminded me of that story by Neil Gaiman, I was not saying that you copied his story or something like that.

Read the story and you will see that it's different from the ones you posted, but I think they share the basic idea, that cats see/know something we do not, and, in the case of the Neil Gaiman story, do more than we know.
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: space otter on April 12, 2018, 06:23:36 pm

Quote
I still feel compelled to defend my posts regarding my contacts.

well don't..
i haven't seen any one saying anything  and most of us here have stories of one type or another

critters, especially cats are remarkable   i would probably go with them before most humans..i would share with you some pics of my ghost cat but i don't know where it's at..i did post it on here once somewhere..sigh

just do what you can to protect yourself
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: Irene on April 12, 2018, 06:40:49 pm
I was saying exactly what I wrote that your stories reminded me of that story by Neil Gaiman, I was not saying that you copied his story or something like that.

Read the story and you will see that it's different from the ones you posted, but I think they share the basic idea, that cats see/know something we do not, and, in the case of the Neil Gaiman story, do more than we know.

Read my post right above yours, Turkeylips.
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: ArMaP on April 13, 2018, 04:46:09 am
Read my post right above yours, Turkeylips.
I did, after making my post, as I ignored (as usual) that message saying that someone made more posts while I was writing. :)
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: Pimander on April 13, 2018, 05:21:35 am
There you go I challenge anyone to debunk this. Freeman tells us theres no S4 at Papoose no way
Back on topic

If Bob Lazar was taken to S4 by blacked out bus then how did he know S4 was located at Papoose Lake?
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: A51Watcher on April 13, 2018, 09:31:58 am
Back on topic

If Bob Lazar was taken to S4 by blacked out bus then how did he know S4 was located at Papoose Lake?

Anyone?....


Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: Irene on April 13, 2018, 11:03:23 am
Anyone?....

My guess is "S4" or "Papoose Lake" appeared on the buildings or somewhere in the paperwork he either signed or reviewed for his research.
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: Irene on April 13, 2018, 11:06:41 am
I did, after making my post, as I ignored (as usual) that message saying that someone made more posts while I was writing. :)

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: A51Watcher on April 13, 2018, 02:10:36 pm

If Bob Lazar was taken to S4 by blacked out bus then how did he know S4 was located at Papoose Lake?

Bob went over to John's house and they got out some of his maps and drew a circle around Groom lake, of how far a 20 minute ride would take you and looked for dry lake beds with a mountain nearby.

Papoose fit the bill.


Also as Bob mentioned the front windows are not blacked out -

(click on image for full size)
(https://i.imgur.com/2Vm485A.png)


I would imagine he recognized the shoreline too.

He managed to sketch it quite well -

(http://users.skynet.be/bob.lazar/www.boblazar.com/closed/baseland.jpg)




Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 13, 2018, 02:36:19 pm
If Bob Lazar was taken to S4 by blacked out bus then how did he know S4 was located at Papoose Lake?

His script said so? :P  I still find it plausible that Bob was a controlled leak...  :D  The fact that he was paid by the NAVY, even though it is claimed that office doesn't exist, is significant

Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: A51Watcher on April 13, 2018, 07:51:07 pm
His script said so? :P  I still find it plausible that Bob was a controlled leak...  :D  The fact that he was paid by the NAVY, even though it is claimed that office doesn't exist, is significant

Yeah I have heard that theory before.

Controlled leak by whom for what purpose?

To let the world know about a top secret program and base?

Sure turn into an uncontrolled leak real quick.

Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 13, 2018, 09:02:30 pm
Yeah I have heard that theory before.
Controlled leak by whom for what purpose?

By those on the inside who really want the truth to get out... there are many

Quote
To let the world know about a top secret program and base?

Yes precisely... in such a way that they can still have plausible deniability...  It would have been outed sooner or later anyway. It was easy to keep such secrets in the 50's when people trusted their government.  Bob wasn't until what 1989? 

Quote
Sure turn into an uncontrolled leak real quick.

Did it really?  What do we REALLY know?  Yes we know they build and test secret airplanes out there...  that is nice if you are into airplanes :P  But I had photos of the F117 in Canada 2 years before it became declassified in the USA... It was on a base in Trenton Ontario, where they flew the missions to the Middle east from I have a picture autographed by the pilot, who as it turns out is now the flying instructor for them here at Nellis. Also have some cool pictures of the Russian (well Ukranian) Mig   

(http://\30blueknight\01stock_photos\02military\01aircraft\JPG\Mig_Ukraine002.jpg)

Yes we THINK we know they have Alien Spacecraft out there and have reverse engineered them  But you told me Bob din't say they got them working a few posts back, yet you and he have videos of them in flight

All through the years of UFO research in the early days I heard of the MIB's arresting people to silence them, the CIA killing people with 'accidents' to silence them... yet Bob was never rounded up :P  And they allowed Bob and crew to film... stopped them yes, but let them go... just enough muscle to make them think, but no arrest and no mysterious 'accident' and now there will be a book and film   So yeah  Controlled leak works for me still

When NJ Mooch first told me at ATS who he was and that he wanted to visit John and I, (he was active in our threads), he said: "You have no reason to trust me, so I will give you my real name. Have your friend at the pentagon run me through the Global and you will know I am real"  So I did  and he was  :P  The Global is the top of the top internets  We have ours  then there is NiPRNET (sensitive) SiPRNEt (Secret) JWICS (top secret) and 'The Global" (so above top secret it is hard to even find out much about it :P)

When he left he left me some photos... and 'special access' on my computer...  when I do a search... I get .mil sites with pdfs pop up first...  On my new one I still have to request the certificates but my old machine  straight in no fuss no muss

That is all I will say on that in here :P  But there ARE those on the inside who want the truth to come out... and not like the latest Pentagon release either :P

Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: A51Watcher on April 13, 2018, 09:31:18 pm

Yes we THINK we know they have Alien Spacecraft out there and have reverse engineered them  But you told me Bob din't say they got them working a few posts back, yet you and he have videos of them in flight


I told you Bob said they were unable to replicate the tech and we would not be able to for a long time.

The ones we have video of are ones we are able to fly not made by us.

The ones with the child size seats.

If that was what the good guys wanted to get out to the public then yeah it worked.






Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 14, 2018, 12:52:02 am
If that was what the good guys wanted to get out to the public then yeah it worked.

Well IF is all we have to work with at the moment  maybe one day the Mother Ship will land on the White House lawn and explain it to us  :D

Again...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INwC0Pfe5G4
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 14, 2018, 03:55:22 am
(https://scontent.flas1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/30698067_10212414169251419_3504493086455627776_n.png?_nc_cat=0&_nc_eui2=v1%3AAeFEKKbaRAmDj3ZwpGToila0jRruOdMLktEo3YpsgndYGFN6NuB5j8y38QVOb8yDuiQ3mwh5i3zBwWQhxe3cbuuRnIq2ySuhazlZ6Bx37GJ4XA&oh=468aee88ba0affd47b7b7afc1bf132ea&oe=5B72AB53)
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: ArMaP on April 14, 2018, 07:37:39 am
I still find it plausible that Bob was a controlled leak...  :D
Or made to look like one.
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: Pimander on April 14, 2018, 09:05:53 am
His script said so? :P  I still find it plausible that Bob was a controlled leak...  :D  The fact that he was paid by the NAVY, even though it is claimed that office doesn't exist, is significant
If Bob didn't either work at A51/S4 or at least have information from someone there then how did he know when they were testing craft there?  Your mate John Lear and Gene Huff went there and filmed them after Bob told them about the tests.

That is significant.

Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 14, 2018, 02:42:57 pm
If Bob didn't either work at A51/S4 or at least have information from someone there then how did he know when they were testing craft there?

They gave him a time table? :P 

WHY were they not arrested?  THAT is significant :P

IF the military was actually running a top secret test... and these guys are out there filming it... WHY were they just sent home with a warning? WHY was Bob's film never confiscated? WHY was he never arrested or charged with treason like Ed Snowden was? WHY is he allowed to put it into a book? WHY was George Knapp allowed to run with the story when George Knapp was hassled by the MIB over the Henderson/Serchlight UFO crash?

I haz QUESTIONS  I haz no answers
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: Pimander on April 14, 2018, 03:44:30 pm
How much do you know about counter-intelligence?

Ron, how long had John Lear known Bob Lazar when Bob supposedly worked at S4?
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 16, 2018, 01:12:57 am
Okay these are captures that SmilingTree saved from FB pages of Corbell and Knapp... I THINK I have them in the right order..

These are FB image links so I will still have to save them and redo the link so they don't disappear

(https://scontent.flas1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t34.0-12/13233264_10206900655057010_1063499099_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=840c238410b7cf06c62678ac0e63184a&oe=5AD5FCD5)

(https://scontent.flas1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t34.0-12/29550715_10212299864633875_935899046_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=37dcf187270edd2f47e37ca360a2d8d2&oe=5AD71BA3)

(https://scontent.flas1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t34.0-12/30007720_10212342785066859_1086253693_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=45dfc22e33d93836bc9430b8b4c78775&oe=5AD7055D)

(https://scontent.flas1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t34.0-12/29939264_10212342786226888_7076253_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=df710c94d7b7a9ba32dbfbd80faec864&oe=5AD6EC06)

(https://scontent.flas1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t34.0-12/29920141_10212342786746901_1397931155_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=5754509bb668d40401d93109d49c02ab&oe=5AD720E8)





Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 16, 2018, 01:21:35 am
(https://scontent.flas1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t35.0-12/30074633_10212342787586922_1688851883_o.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=c11268f915aec0324c5fc9e14ea61e38&oe=5AD6D48A)

(https://scontent.flas1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t35.0-12/29993685_10212342788346941_609137537_o.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=7af0984ceed58c0412d60ddfaa7b1ede&oe=5AD6CC95)

(https://scontent.flas1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t34.0-12/29855364_10212342788866954_752551789_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=1841110d9283d9a5769ddd609b1b9e76&oe=5AD6092B)

(https://scontent.flas1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t34.0-12/29920223_10212342789306965_440150534_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=aaade94a63c1b9b9057b399275c302b6&oe=5AD6F10E)

(https://scontent.flas1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t34.0-12/30020014_10212342789546971_727661099_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=ce873b53aa948c7bce31f402b07f77c5&oe=5AD72C3A)

(https://scontent.flas1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t34.0-12/29920618_10212342789706975_1020071374_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=98f67f56fe40203378508e2c6fe8c818&oe=5AD7044B)

(https://scontent.flas1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t35.0-12/29994278_10212342789986982_280527672_o.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=8fd49428f6752376f217058e45ce301e&oe=5AD6DD23)

(https://scontent.flas1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t34.0-12/29939220_10212342790306990_1879728226_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=533fd9a45b7908db0c284383af0726a6&oe=5AD6C795)

(https://scontent.flas1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t34.0-12/29855978_10212342805067359_1423968266_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=1cfd49de47d74fdec9842e55516b12be&oe=5AD60BB0)

(https://scontent.flas1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t34.0-12/29855622_10212342806467394_883844158_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=087122b9756942fdbb5fd35d68e09717&oe=5AD6042C)

(https://scontent.flas1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/30264792_10212373674879085_9059778102644703232_n.png?_nc_cat=0&oh=2940f605370b9da0efd6b4b45aac052a&oe=5B6468B5)

(https://scontent.flas1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/30264882_10212373720840234_8303231093901885440_n.png?_nc_cat=0&oh=fbca81d472f71091b9ab3c0f81d5421c&oe=5B661B11)

(https://scontent.flas1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/30264457_10212373721440249_7613483050088792064_n.png?_nc_cat=0&oh=c477b9da9f2ac0d0e1044d329c71c5ac&oe=5B579D41)

(https://scontent.flas1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/30698067_10212414169251419_3504493086455627776_n.png?_nc_cat=0&oh=a25b45170a377b9fa6df946b1bbf83b1&oe=5B72AB53)

Well there you have the whole picture

Time to me to withdraw from the whole mess It is obvious Bob is aware and part of it and John Lear gets left behind, tossed under the bus it seems
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: A51Watcher on April 16, 2018, 12:15:32 pm

Hilarious!  ;D

Obviously George gets trolled more than even you do Z.

Farcebook now sounds (and looks) and looks like the embodiment of the old adage about a million monkeys typing on a million typewriters for a million years.

Now that we have corroboration from 2 employees of Los Alamos that Bob worked as a physicist there operating their multi million dollar particle accelerator with a TS clearance, that must have been a real promotion handing out dosimeters!  ::)

 
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: A51Watcher on April 16, 2018, 01:49:42 pm
So what kind of verbal agreement did John have with 4 names about his immaculate deception film?

If he gets zero no jury would believe he would let 4 names film there for 4 months with no expectation of the profits.

And if he or his wife have contacted their IP about resetting their password before, they need to do it again.

And if he winds up getting zero, he needs to expose that on all his sites and social media.

He mentions you and thelivingmoon.com a lot in the interviews he does. That's probably where the 4 mil hits per month come from.

---

"They agreed that they couldn't chase us off of public land, but simply said they would "prefer" that we retreat back up to the highway. They issued us a copy of a written warning that said we were approaching a military installation and it stated the Nevada Revised Statutes which cited the penalties for taking pictures of the base, etc."

Perimeter security were simply following their training and instructions on what to do with intruders. Arresting people on the outskirts of a base they were denying existed would not be a helpful news story.

After they were released by security and then their ID's radio'ed in, it obviously showed that John was CIA and Bob was one of Teller's boys.

They probably said oh brother and reported it to HQ to deal with.

Scaring Bob with a shot out tire on the freeway was as an attempt to secure any future leaks.

Trying to derail George's TV news expose was obviously deemed too risky.

The hastily set up live feed was probably too quick to derail, which promised a followup report.

'Oh sorry, remember that report of a secret base they deny exists we promised a followup on? Everyone connected with it is missing or dead. Sorry about that.'

Very very risky but Bob had no choice at that point. He wanted John to release it originally but John suggested George would be a better way to go.

Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 16, 2018, 02:12:06 pm
There is no contract for John... nothing was signed. Although John asked me to help in this, there is little more I can do at this point seeing as all the other parties are in cahoots...

All I can do is pass this along to Marilee to make her aware, beyond that I am neither a lawyer or part of any of these deals.  And my squeaky little voice is just a creaking door in the wind, annoying but easy to ignore

Re ERIC DAVIS

In case anyone doesn't know this name

Eric W. Davis
Warp Drive Metrics
4849 San Rafael Ave.
Las Vegas, NV 89120

Author of the Air Force Stargate papers. Works for HAL PUTHOFF
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 16, 2018, 02:26:45 pm
He mentions you and thelivingmoon.com a lot in the interviews he does. That's probably where the 4 mil hits per month come from.

Actually the TOP hits come in via Jack's pages, Apollo Reality, and The Black Knight satellite pages, which is why Kim Greenhouse put ads on those specific pages :P


Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: A51Watcher on April 16, 2018, 11:06:04 pm


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcS1uXnFPlo


Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 16, 2018, 11:17:17 pm
I actually have a lot of recent posts from John stored over at the Coffeeshop  Just haven't had the time to post them here yet what with the Corbell mess and the Syria mess

But I will start tomorrow. We already have them in order now so It's just a copy  and paste matter

1) Echelon Fake Casino to cover new subway to Area 51
2) Israeli sub sank after trying to nuke Hawaii
3) Fake shooting in Las vegas

for starters :D
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: astr0144 on April 22, 2018, 11:51:11 am
Its a while since I looked into Jerry Freemans story and his ref to Papoose Lake or seeing any lights / door open there during the night...

I do seem to recall reading it in some article and not just obtaining that from a video...(Other than G Knapps one that is referred to...  there may had been another non G.K one also that claimed similar )

Its not always easy to find that past specific information.. unless saved on ones computer that is easy to find.. I may come across it at sometime.


IF Dan has obtained some other ref to this story... or there is a video that refers to it... does anyone have it that they can post.. I could not find any new video on "Alien Scientist" website


In ref to seeing the Photos of Jerry.... My thoughts on those pictures are that he is on the opposite side to where S4 is supposed to be.. ie I thought that he was on the West side of it looking back to the Eastern side and the Papoose Mountain range..

Did he manage to explore on the other side during day light ...I wonder ?

Bob claimed that the Door ways to S4 where the UFOs come out to the Papoose Desert DRY  Lake where camoflaged  to appear like covered in a type of sand appearance (painted or sprayed in a sand type texture) and that you could not tell they were there, unless you were very close up to them... and I would imagine that is very probable, that could be the case if S4 is there..

I recall in the  James Bond film "Diamonds are Forever " you get to see an entrance to a type of tunnel that is hidden in the Desert that had a Cactus on it...(when two villain's Mr Wint / Mr Kidd take Bond to place in a underground pipeline... they initially drive Bond out of the tunnel that was connected and  came out of one of the large Vegas hotels...( Bond had attempted to gain entrance to the hotels roof and  visit to catch or kill Blofeld.. but he later got captured and knocked out and was sent down a lift for two villians to deal with him) ... The villians put him in the boot of a car...then seem to drive down quite a long tunnel that eventually came out into the desert somewhere near Las vegas).  Back then there were fewer hotels and Vegas was quite a lot smaller than it is now with the Desert very close to the main City area..

As well as maybe Batmans Cave entrance is hard to see in the old series !  :)

I think one of the difficult things.... is what other entrances at S4 may there have been ?...

I just happened to lucky to watch on TV last night ...the Program "Dreamland " that I have not seen for sometime... Parts of it I seem to recall seeing on some other program that I saw years ago that 1st made me aware of Bob Lazar / S4 / Area 51   and I think it was one of the most thought provoking programs that I had ever seen at that time.. and still is... whether its true or false !
As I think applies to many who are aware of the topic..

In the Dreamland program... Bob Makes ref to when he visited S4..

see from 9 mins 25 seconds..in the video link below..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=887&v=Se5x2D5-m_c

He then says that they drove along to the left side to the main entrance...
(without seeing a specific map like diagram... that's difficult to fully try to visualise) as was this main entrance more visible or was that also disguised ...

He says he went thru some gates and a security check ! and went inside something that was like a typical Govt building..


He says he had what was classed as Majestic Clearance.. in which there was only 22 people who had such a level...to be able to work on the Craft/s !  (which I /we assume are the ET Saucers)

He later refers again,  a 2nd time that when visiting the installation that normally they would go to the left side of it to the main entrance... but on one occasion...when he arrived by Bus.. they went to the front of the hanger doors and he noticed one of them was open at door 9.. at the end

the video shows an animation of what he claimed to see... in which when he got off the bus and was led into the door nine entrance and into the open hanger area ... or as he looked thru the door... he could see the Saucer.. and later was able to walk into that area and actually touch it...in which he thought it seemed like a metalic material..as it felt cold or cool to him.

He  describes later, when he was allowed to look into the inside of  the Saucer disc...on a lower level he could see the gravity amplfiers .... then he was allowed to look  through a small opening entrance to the higher level floor above...which no doubt is amazingly interesting to listen to what he describes..in terms of how small it appeared and that there was 3 small seats for what he assumed was for small beings !  (I only see 2 seats in the animation that are obvious to me, near some sort of small dome shaped thing..(Was this the reactor ? )... and why would they all be so close up to each other I wonder in the position that they are in...Just How small where these ETs ?

He says that he observed part of the crafts skin or area become transparent in which he thought that he could see outside it like looking thru a glass window..(maybe due to electrical or some sort of EMF technology that may have changed the materials matter structure...This may explain what A51 shows in his videos where we see whats seems like electrical activity taking place when 67 Sander was able to show in his photo / video  analysis techniques) or that he was viewing a type of screen that allowed him to see outside the craft..


It was very interesting to rewatch that Dreamland Video to try and get another opinion on it after having since become more aware of the story over some years...

but for myself and my memory abilities etc on how I may interpret things...
Its hard to have recalled all the past research or recall in real detail..to be able to resite things in a very detailed way ... or in such a way that when watching the video again some years later....
to say that I could remember all that Bob had said...

so watching it again reminds me on certain things...BUT also....I am probably learning some new things that I just had not taken in very well... or good enough ....to be able to say that I could recall all that Bob explained in such detail..

Its something that you have to watch over and over again on and off for it to sink in if one wants to try to become more of an expert on the facts of the story... or to try and make other judgements on it..  There is such a lot of things / facts to recall about the whole story..

No doubt certain other questions may come to mind... and one may consider other possible views about it..

Listening to some of the other parts of the Dreamland video... in ref to others who claim to have either worked at Area 51 or who had seen / witnessed Saucers or worked on things to do with them.. was very interesting...

Bill Uhouses comments were very interesting....how he had been on contact with the Jarod Grey ET.. and been involved with it in creating a Human Saucer simulator !

Says maybe one of the 1st Saucer to go to Area 51 was from the Kingsmans crash (Jarod)that had been originally taken to a New Mexico base..maybe Kirkland ...

So was the Navy Physicists comments .. Dr Bruce Maccabee

Who was the mystery lady Radio operator who claimed to witness the Saucers. (26 mins)

Bob Oechsler who had worked as a Nasa mission specialist in robotics Scientist  also had his own UFO encounter... that I have seen on some program at sometime... when I did not know he had worked for Nasa .... I think thats also a bit strange.... as if I recall he had quite a strange encounter ..or claimed to have had..

He later was chosen by the Pentagon to be involved in Cosmic Journey see 49 min 19 secs..
again maybe seen as rather strange !

There is other footage of the Saucers similar to what Bob/ John and A51 witnessed...

Has A51 and 67 Saunders looked analyse any of them in the same detail as their other research..
there was may craft showing flying around at the same time..somewhere in the video..
see 1 hr 16 mins.... seems to have been seen from Las Vegas in 1990..maybe looking toward Nellis
AFB...But why would they risk flying them that close to Vegas if they wanted to keep them secret ???

Bobs car reg was MJ12 !   thought that was also rather strange !

In the Video.... It refers to WHY did Bob, risk informing  his family , friends / associates about the Wednesday night test flights ...

Fortunately for us and them...if had not we would never have got to know about his story and the facts behind it..

BUT if it was such a secret project / program...

You would think that they would have warned Bob severely about the secrecy behind it...

or did they just trust him and did not think that they would had need to...

or it that they suspected he would inform others, if they wanted it leaked out to the public..

but it did seems Bobs family and others / himself were severely threatened...

and if so... Bob had taken a real chance...to show John and others...



Actually Jerry states in his diary that he did see a light getting bigger then smaller at Papoose during the night so George is not lying.

Jerry does not state "there is no base there, no way".

He only crossed the southern edge of Papoose so he had no way of knowing.

Was there a base like Groom lake to be seen? Of course not. You would have to be within 40 yards of the hangars to see them.

Dan is getting all this from a new video alienscientist made 4 months ago.

He gets this way when he hangs around that guy too much.
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: astr0144 on April 22, 2018, 02:36:13 pm
Its been suggested and discussed before... Was Jerry Freeman's death due to radiation that he may have been in contact with on his NTS / Papoose Lake trip...


There is some information on the Alien Scientist website ...

and some google type maps if you scroll down the page..

there is also a video that also debunks S4,  George Knapp and relates to Jerry Freemans trip...
but not in any great detail...

(http://www.alienscientist.com/images/49erspath.jpg)


http://www.alienscientist.com/boblazar.html

(http://i41.tinypic.com/2nv9fe0.gif)

and How may the radiation effects still be around the Nevada test site NTS area and Papoose Lake / Area 51 and surrounding areas... when that area was one of the major testing sites of numerous Nuclear Bombs or detonations..

This is a new website that indicates what may happen if we were to be nuked in ones local area by more modern type and older type of nuclear bombs.....(Not sure how they really compare  today.. to what they may have compared to the ones that occurred around the NTS  over some years ago)

How long the effects may last for,  and at what sort of range would the effects have been...

How far away from the central strike area, would one need to be to be safe or be uneffected.

When Jerry Freeman did hos trip to Papoose... I believe that he entered from the South of the NTS close to the town of Mercury... where he seemed to pass closer to the NTS than maybe many realised...So could he have been more effected by passing close to that than from any effects from Papoose Lake...

How do the radiation effects relate and compare around the NTS and Papoose Lake and Area 51 between back when they did the testing to today.. or when Jerry did his trip...

Is the effects still  bad today whether you are at Papoose Lake or at the HW 375 black mailbox  or on Tikaboo ...or  if not similar ....how much may they vary

There is a new website that shows the effects of a Nuclear Bomb if it hits what ever area or City..

I  am not sure how it compares between today and back when they did the Nuke tests..

Maybe some of the power of certain bombs are still similar...

it would take a bit of researching... but this website may help gain a better understanding..for those willing to try to research the various facts..


New interactive map shows what would happen if a nuclear bomb hit your town

there are 4 different Bomb types you can select...

15, 150, 300, and 50,000 KT  to choose from..

The 15 KT size was used in WW 2...

it shows the radiation effect of this only being upto about 2.18  Sq miles

I think however most Bombs at NTS were tested after WW2.. from 11 January 1951 to I think maybe upto the 1980s or maybe even 2000

This link says underground explosions ended in 1992

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nevada_Test_Site#Area_3

then it refers to this....

Quote
The site was scheduled to be used to conduct the testing of a 1,100-ton conventional explosive in an operation known as Divine Strake in June 2006. The bomb is a possible alternative to nuclear bunker busters. After objections from Nevada and Utah's members of Congress, the operation was postponed until 2007. On 22 February 2007, the Defense Threat Reduction Agency (DTRA) officially canceled the experiment. On December 7, 2012 the most-recent explosion was conducted, an underground sub-critical test of the properties of plutonium.[8]

but  the size of later Bombs varied...

so What is the distances between NTS and Papoose Lake... Not that far...only a few miles..

what seems like an average Bomb size  today is a 300 KT..

and the effects of it seem to be roughly as follows..

fireball upto 0.74 sq miles

Radiation upto 5.5 sq miles

shock wave 11 sq miles

Heat effects to 48 Sq Miles

 
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/2637775-114516746.html

(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/3_hi9CpwDpPq2WzJxNwA1w--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9MTI4MDtoPTk2MA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en/homerun/feed_manager_auto_publish_494/6ffb642cd81f8fcc7d4a55344f818d20)

https://outrider.org/nuclear-weapons/interactive/bomb-blast/

Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: astr0144 on April 22, 2018, 05:10:58 pm
Zorgon,

In ref to Harry Reid and past attempts (Johns Mine )and Further Land confiscation in Nevada / USA (who I was not really aware about until I read your comments on him (H.R)) by the BLM..

Was you aware that their is a threat to take over some Land on the N.T.T.R for more land for the Military or land close to Area 51 that is part of the Desert National Wildlife Range (D.N.W.R) ?

There are some who are attempting to dispute and put a stop  it...

I am now wondering if Harry Reid is / or was involved and do you have any thoughts on it as to if now this may not go ahead...

For me it will be very disappointing and concerning  if they closed this to the Public...


This is a PDF Map of the various proposals of the Areas that they are considering taking over...
with one being an existing area that the public can travel on that is the the East side of the N.T.T.R...that is part of the Desert National Wild Life range... which has some very nice areas.

http://www.nttrleis.com/Acreage_by_Alternatives_DOPAA_approx_acreage_revisedAug122016.pdf

Nevada Test and Training Range (NTTR) Military Land Withdrawal Legislative Environmental Impact Statement Project Website

Quote
Located in southeastern Nevada, the Nevada Test and Training Range (NTTR) land base consists of approximately 2.9 million acres of federal land that has been withdrawn from public use and reserved for military use, most recently by the Military Lands Withdrawal Act of 1999, Public Law No. 106-65 (MLWA). In accordance with Section 3016 of the MLWA, the Department of the Air Force has notified Congress of a continuing military need for the NTTR land withdrawal in coordination with the DoD and plans to submit a legislative proposal through the Department of the Interior (DOI) to extend the NTTR land withdrawal. Congress has reserved the authority for renewing the NTTR land withdrawal for itself, through the Defense Withdrawal Act of 1958 (43 USC Sections 155–158), and will make the final decision as to whether or not to renew the NTTR land withdrawal. The current NTTR land withdrawal expires in 2021 unless legislation is enacted extending it.


http://www.nttrleis.com/index.aspx

Zorgon :  Reply #79 on: April 08, 2018, 11:49:48 PM
Quote
John Lear lost his mine thanks to Harry Reid and he was behind that whole Bundy Ranch caper...


Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: A51Watcher on April 23, 2018, 05:23:48 pm
Its been suggested and discussed before... Was Jerry Freeman's death due to radiation that he may have been in contact with on his NTS / Papoose Lake trip...


There is some information on the Alien Scientist website ...

and some google type maps if you scroll down the page..

there is also a video that also debunks S4,  George Knapp and relates to Jerry Freemans trip...
but not in any great detail...

(http://www.alienscientist.com/images/49erspath.jpg)


http://www.alienscientist.com/boblazar.html

(http://i41.tinypic.com/2nv9fe0.gif)

and How may the radiation effects still be around the Nevada test site NTS area and Papoose Lake / Area 51 and surrounding areas... when that area was one of the major testing sites of numerous Nuclear Bombs or detonations..

This is a new website that indicates what may happen if we were to be nuked in ones local area by more modern type and older type of nuclear bombs.....(Not sure how they really compare  today.. to what they may have compared to the ones that occurred around the NTS  over some years ago)

How long the effects may last for,  and at what sort of range would the effects have been...

How far away from the central strike area, would one need to be to be safe or be uneffected.

When Jerry Freeman did hos trip to Papoose... I believe that he entered from the South of the NTS close to the town of Mercury... where he seemed to pass closer to the NTS than maybe many realised...So could he have been more effected by passing close to that than from any effects from Papoose Lake...

How do the radiation effects relate and compare around the NTS and Papoose Lake and Area 51 between back when they did the testing to today.. or when Jerry did his trip...

Is the effects still  bad today whether you are at Papoose Lake or at the HW 375 black mailbox  or on Tikaboo ...or  if not similar ....how much may they vary

There is a new website that shows the effects of a Nuclear Bomb if it hits what ever area or City..

I  am not sure how it compares between today and back when they did the Nuke tests..

Maybe some of the power of certain bombs are still similar...

it would take a bit of researching... but this website may help gain a better understanding..for those willing to try to research the various facts..


New interactive map shows what would happen if a nuclear bomb hit your town

there are 4 different Bomb types you can select...

15, 150, 300, and 50,000 KT  to choose from..

The 15 KT size was used in WW 2...

it shows the radiation effect of this only being upto about 2.18  Sq miles

I think however most Bombs at NTS were tested after WW2.. from 11 January 1951 to I think maybe upto the 1980s or maybe even 2000

This link says underground explosions ended in 1992

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nevada_Test_Site#Area_3

then it refers to this....

but  the size of later Bombs varied...

so What is the distances between NTS and Papoose Lake... Not that far...only a few miles..

what seems like an average Bomb size  today is a 300 KT..

and the effects of it seem to be roughly as follows..

fireball upto 0.74 sq miles

Radiation upto 5.5 sq miles

shock wave 11 sq miles

Heat effects to 48 Sq Miles

 
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/2637775-114516746.html

(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/3_hi9CpwDpPq2WzJxNwA1w--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9MTI4MDtoPTk2MA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en/homerun/feed_manager_auto_publish_494/6ffb642cd81f8fcc7d4a55344f818d20)

https://outrider.org/nuclear-weapons/interactive/bomb-blast/


Astro, as I have I have pointed out in previous posts, the official record of bombing in the area states that Groom Lake was chosen for above ground atomic bombing for several reasons, including the fact it was a virgin target.

Yet here we are decades later, and hundreds of workers have worked there daily for decades quite safely.
On the other hand, Papoose lake has never been used as a target for bombing.

So which facility would be the safest to work at?

One that has been the direct target of atomic bombing, or one that has not?

Quote
so What is the distances between NTS and Papoose Lake... Not that far...only a few miles..


Actually no.

If you look at google satellite maps of the area the distance is 11 miles between the 2.

Even your diagram above shows a radiation radius of only 5 miles.
 

Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: A51Watcher on April 23, 2018, 06:29:44 pm
http://www.carloslabs.com/node/20 (http://www.carloslabs.com/node/20)


type in - sedan crater, nevada

and chose a KT or MT bomb

choose full screen icon and you will see fallout radius or pressure or thermal,

even choosing a 21 MT hydrogen bomb gives a range nowhere near to Papoose.


And diagrams from Hiroshima show higher ground areas only have a 2mile radius, as the mountains between Papoose and the NTS would provide.

(https://s3.amazonaws.com/user-media.venngage.com/479513-711c4d9676305697e840a1f9f77dd72d.jpg)



 
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 24, 2018, 01:05:03 pm
There is some information on the Alien Scientist website ...
and some google type maps if you scroll down the page..

Alien Scientist is a criminal :P Ask ShotInTheDaRK :P

I also had to toss a a lawyer at him to remove some obvious slander directed at muself and John lear..

I don't doubt he has a debunk video :P But I don't pay much attention to that POS
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 24, 2018, 01:22:26 pm
How do the radiation effects relate and compare around the NTS and Papoose Lake and Area 51 between back when they did the testing to today.. or when Jerry did his trip...
Is the effects still  bad today whether you are at Papoose Lake or at the HW 375 black mailbox  or on Tikaboo ...or  if not similar ....how much may they vary


They take tours out to the test site...  :P  Its not really that 'hot' these days though it is probably wise not to pick up any souvenir  :P

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/7d/c8/ff/7dc8ff78108f12fecdcf3104d15f3f2b.jpg)
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: astr0144 on April 24, 2018, 03:15:50 pm
I thought that the Nukes were mainly tested at the NTS range...

That appears just to the West of Groom Lake and Papoose..

I know  many Nukes were detonated underground... so I assume that was supposed to prevent or severely reduce any radiation effects....   We see numerous Craters when we view that area via Satellite  or google type maps.. But I am not sure if those craters are the effects of the ground sinking from undergound Nuke explosions... or if they are from what I assume were also above ground tested Nuke explosions...  MAYBE a combination of both.... or maybe the craters we see are just the above Nukes... I am not really sure without taking more time to try to investigate..

I know other parts of the Nevada Test and Training Range (N.T.T.R) have been used by the Military for other weapons testing or exercises... and that that Area is split into different sections..

where we have the N.T.T.R , Nellis Airforce Range /  Nellis Airbase and the Nevada Test Site ( N.T.S )

The N.T.S is mainly  to the West / South West of Groom lake..

But I am not sure if any Nukes were ever dropped outside the Nevada test Site... or at Groom Lake Specifically..to the East and South East of it..

I thought other surrounding areas were mainly Military Gunnery or Aircraft target  type ranges..

Groom lake area now (East and South East of it ) is mainly non Military Active as far as I am aware.
and the Groom lake base being Area 51 and its Airbase...with the large dry Lake bed / Run way...

As you know from 375 Highway to just the Border gate...along Groom lake Rd is 13 miles.. and another 13 miles from the Border entrance to the Base its self  ... 26 miles in total..

and you have 60 to 80 miles or So  to the South towards the 95 Highway...towards Indian Springs.


(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/23/Wfm_area51_map_en.png/1024px-Wfm_area51_map_en.png)


I used to believe Radiation effects from Nukes lasted years...Sometimes 1000s of years...
But was not sure at what sort of ranges.../ distances...

On now having looked at other various Information and that Nuke Bomb website...

I was a bit surprised to see that the radiations effects from mainly of those Lesser / Older type Bombs was not as great as I thought...  and if they do only have effects between 2 to 5 SQ Miles...
then it seems that those Nuke tests were not as bad as I thought, and nor were the effects of the bombs that they dropped on Japan in WW2..

So it does appear that the NTS is to the East of Papoose Lake and more than 5 miles away...

So we may think in that case , that maybe Papoose was not really effected by those Nuke tests..

BUT on other material that I have posted.... there are other arguments that suggested that on Strong Wind days... that the Radiation effects were blown and carried  in the wind several Miles.. as one major Town South East of the NTS / Papoose/ Groom Lake....called St Georges... and did get badly effected by those nuke tests in the earlier days....

On doing a quick distances search...which is not in a direct straighline....I could not find a direct distance listed.. but on splitting two locations and adding together... I got info suggesting...Its 68 miles from Mercury (closest town to the NTS ) to Las vegas and 122 miles from Las Vegas to St Georges..

Id estimate direct...that its about 150 to 180 Miles from the NTS to St Georges..


I have not as yet  come across any other articles that may suggest that other places effected in the same way that St Georges were.... I mean Las Vegas is even closer and I have seen and experienced severe dust storm hotting Las Vegas... as I am sure Zorgon has...

Unless generally the Wind directions for what ever reason from the NTS range... dont tend to hot Las vegas..Maybe due to MT Charlston and the surrounding Mountain range protects it more..

or the wind directions tend to pass more in the South East  direction of St Georges from the NTS..

SO... In My Opinion.... the Dust carried in the Winds...carried nuclear particles... that would land in numerous places around the NTS...depending upon wind strength and direction..

So it would suggest that those Particles are all over that Area.... and as Papoose is much closer than St Georges.... It must have been effected to some degree...

BUT maybe when the air is calm.. the dust settles and maybe as the particles are not in great close proximity.... that overall you do not not get greatly effected by them.... but if you get a strong wind dust storm.... you would get covered in many Radiation  particles mixed in the dust.... that I think could create bad effects on persons....

I think it just seems that if you get an initial Nuke Blast... you would be badly effected or killed if you are in that 2 to 5 mile range... but over time... the radiation effects are less...BUT the Particles are still active enough to still be a danger...until their half life effect has taken place enough to no longer be an issue... or the particles have settled to  ground level and only effect you if you come into contact with them....maybe if you walked barefoot on the desert floor for eg..

But it seems that the effects dont just stay in the atmosphere or air unless they are blown in the wind..


Its does appear that overall, it appears to be Safe for those who work within a reasonable close distance away from the NTS nuke testing areas... like at Groom Lake / Area 51....

It maybe also be that most workers... generally work inside thru out their days and not that many overall work outside... and they would only get effected if it there were strong winds / dust storms hitting the area if they were outside..

Probably it would be similar at S4, if it is at Papoose as we are led to believe..

I think generally thru out the year.. the weather in Nevada  is mostly calm..

How many days a year on average  they may get when the wind direction may come direct from the NTS area... I suspect would be relatively few..

Maybe Zorgon should be able judge  for the best...if he tends to be aware and note  it...
but often day to day.. we often are not really that aware of how many windy days there maybe in a avg year or what the direction of the wind maybe...

But he probably would have some idea how many dust storms may occur and mainly what time of the year they tend to  occur..


Quote
 
Astro, as I have I have pointed out in previous posts, the official record of bombing in the area states that Groom Lake was chosen for above ground atomic bombing for several reasons, including the fact it was a virgin target.

Yet here we are decades later, and hundreds of workers have worked there daily for decades quite safely.   On the other hand, Papoose lake has never been used as a target for bombing.

So which facility would be the safest to work at? 
One that has been the direct target of atomic bombing, or one that has not?



Although I referred to a FEW Miles... that maybe down to ones opinion as to what a Few is..
5 to 10 miles maybe seen as a few to some...

But if Papoose Lake is 11 Miles away from some Nuke Crater at the NTS... then its still reasonably close... but not just within the 2 to 5 miles range that we referred to in ref to the Radiation effects from initial Nuke bomb explosions that that Nuke Bomb website referred to..


Quote
 

Quote
so What is the distances between NTS and Papoose Lake... Not that far...only a few miles..

Actually no.

If you look at google satellite maps of the area the distance is 11 miles between the 2.

Even your diagram above shows a radiation radius of only 5 miles. 
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: astr0144 on April 24, 2018, 03:36:01 pm
I recall some time back that Dan was having issues with Alien Scientist....and Ed Fouche  at one stage...and i know his opinions on Bob Lazar and other persons involved in the UFO related topics have varied...

I think now he even decided that Charles Halls Tall Whites has been a deceit ! he which he had done a lot of research on..and seemed keen to believe the story for some time..

I am still uncertain on it myself...   The way I see it... if just one UFO or real has been or is on this Planet.... then I could believe in numerous such suggestions...I could not just count it out..

Which some of the things that I became aware about in the earlier days ... that was one topic that I became as keen on as Bob Lazars story.

But I certainly know believe Ed Fouch in ref to the TR 3Bs... as I have now seen one myself !

So I really give him credit for that !  (Ed and Dan )

But I am not sure that I recall A.S being of any direct issues with yourself or John.. other than he may had been trying to debunk Bob or somethings that PRC may had wrote about Bob or John in ref to the Bob Lazar story..

Dan rarely posts any more on PRC... and I have not been in contact with Dan for some time..

But I think you keep more in contact with him....

I was wondering if you do connect with him .... if you could ask him to send you the video  and article that he claims that he had about Jerry Freeman.. That I think are different to that shown on Alien Scientist.. where he claims Jerry may not have referred to having seen things / lights at Papoose Lake.. but elsewhere ....


Alien Scientist is a criminal :P Ask ShotInTheDaRK :P

I also had to toss a a lawyer at him to remove some obvious slander directed at muself and John lear..

I don't doubt he has a debunk video :P But I don't pay much attention to that POS


Yes, it does seem surprising that they now allow or offer tours to that area...

Id love to know the real facts behind the radiation dust particles that I am sure are still all around that area...and how they may effect anyone in contact with them...even if you get the dust on your footware... and were later to touch it direct...as to how it may effect an inidividual..


Quote
They take tours out to the test site...  :P  Its not really that 'hot' these days though it is probably wise not to pick up any souvenir  :P


Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 25, 2018, 02:17:29 am
Yes, it does seem surprising that they now allow or offer tours to that area...

Hu-mons have a morbid like for death :P

Quote
Id love to know the real facts behind the radiation dust particles that I am sure are still all around that area...and how they may effect anyone in contact with them...even if you get the dust on your footware... and were later to touch it direct...as to how it may effect an inidividual..

Start HERE

Nevada's hidden ocean of radiation
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/nov/13/nation/na-radiation-nevada13

Quote
Over 41 years, the federal government detonated 921 nuclear warheads underground at the Nevada Test Site, 75 miles northeast of Las Vegas. Each explosion deposited a toxic load of radioactivity into the ground and, in some cases, directly into aquifers.

Tonic Water :P

Quote
They have successfully pressured federal officials for a fresh environmental assessment of the 1,375-square-mile test site, a step toward a potential demand for monetary compensation, replacement of the lost water or a massive cleanup.

"It is one of the largest resource losses in the country," said Thomas S. Buqo, a Nevada hydrogeologist. "Nobody thought to say, 'You are destroying a natural resource.' "

In a study for Nye County, where the nuclear test site lies, Buqo estimated that the underground tests polluted 1.6 trillion gallons of water. That is as much water as Nevada is allowed to withdraw from the Colorado River in 16 years -- enough to fill a lake 300 miles long, a mile wide and 25 feet deep.

At today's prices, that water would be worth as much as $48 billion if it had not been fouled, Buqo said.


Quote
In early 1951, atomic blasts started lighting up the sky over Las Vegas, then a city of fewer than 50,000. Early atmospheric tests spawned heavy fallout, and some areas are still so radioactive that anybody entering must wear hazardous-material suits. Later tests were done underground, leaving hundreds of craters that resemble otherworldly scars.

Each of the underground detonations -- some as deep as 5,000 feet -- vaporized a huge chamber, leaving a cavity filled with radioactive rubble.

About a third of the tests were conducted directly in aquifers, and others were hundreds or thousands of feet above the water table. Federal scientists say contamination above the aquifers should remain suspended in the perpetually dry soil, a contention that critics say is unproven.

In the hottest zones, radioactivity in the water reaches millions of picocuries per liter. The federal standard for drinking water is 20 picocuries per liter.

The Plutonium under ground will stay 'hot' for about 25,000 years
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 25, 2018, 02:26:47 am
Yucca Mountain...

A safe repository for all our Nuclear Wastes from the entire USA... Since the area is ALREADY radioactive, why not store the rest there too? Especially since that waste will be in containers.

Well it was that SCHMUCK Harry Reid and that sad excuse for a president Obama that stopped it, even though all the money was spent to build it...

Well seems we can go ahead with that now...  :D

Report: Nuclear testing remnants remain radioactive

Quote
The Obama administration has starved the Yucca Mountain Project of funding but a federal court last year ordered the Nuclear Regulatory Commission staff to complete safety evaluations and proceed with licensing using what little funding remains.

Quote
Knapp and other scientists discussed the 270-page monitoring report outside the meeting at the National Atomic Testing Museum. They said it will be a very long time before tritium, the primary isotope they are tracking, travels through groundwater layers and reaches any off-site water supply wells. By then, tritium will have decayed to levels considered well within the safe drinking water standard.

https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/local-las-vegas/report-nuclear-testing-remnants-remain-radioactive/
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 25, 2018, 02:38:25 am
The news media has ALWAYS lied to you :P

50 Years Later, The Tragedy of Nuclear Tests in Nevada

Quote
It was a popular theme among prominent commentators like syndicated columnist David Lawrence, whose wisdom appeared in the Washington Post and other leading newspapers. "The truth is," he wrote in spring 1955, "there isn't the slightest proof of any kind that the 'fallout' as a result of tests in Nevada has ever affected any human being anywhere outside the testing ground itself."

Quote
As golden anniversaries go, it's a somber occasion. In a forlorn expanse of desert scarcely an hour's drive northwest of Las Vegas, on Jan. 27, 1951, the Nevada Test Site went into operation by exploding an atomic bomb.

During more than a decade, mushroom clouds often rose toward the sky. Winds routinely carried radioactive fallout to communities in Utah, Nevada and northern Arizona. Meanwhile, news media dutifully conveyed U.S. Atomic Energy Commission announcements to downwind residents: "There is no danger."

In the region, journalists followed the national media spin and threw in some extra bravado. "'Baby' A-Blast May Provide Facts on Defense Against Atomic Attack," said a headline in the Las Vegas Sun on March 13, 1955.

That week brought the unveiling of a taller detonation tower -- 500 feet instead of the previous 300-foot height. The Las Vegas Review-Journal informed readers that the change would make them even more secure: "Use of taller towers from which atomic devices are detonated at the Nevada Test Site introduces an added angle of safety to residents living outside the confines of the Atomic Energy Commission's continental testing ground, nuclear scientists believe."

Eleven days later, when the "added angle of safety" did not prevent a hot storm of radioactive particles from blanketing the city, the Review-Journal reported that the day's events were benign. "Fallout on Las Vegas and vicinity following this morning's detonation was very low and without any effects on health," the newspaper explained.

Pundits of the day were eagerly patrolling ideological frontiers for the benefit of all Americans. The Los Angeles Examiner published a column by International News Service writer Jack Lotto under the headline "On Your Guard: Reds Launch 'Scare Drive' Against U.S. Atomic Tests." The article warned: "A big Communist 'fear' campaign to force Washington to stop all American atomic hydrogen bomb tests erupted this past week."

Quote
"Nuclear testing made the Cold War possible," Truman said a few days ago. "Without it, humanity could never have developed and deployed the weapons that still stand ever-ready to wipe our species off this planet." Unable to admit the inevitable health effects of nuclear tests, "all governments of all testing nations learned how to -- and perfected being able to -- lie to their own citizens."

https://www.commondreams.org/views01/0105-06.htm
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: astr0144 on April 25, 2018, 05:19:55 am
Thanks for your  research and info that you posted Zorgon...

May still not be fully clear however as to if there have been or still are likely to be concern over dangerous Nuke particles that have travelled via winds to nearby surrounding areas as some other articles that I have read had suggested so..

and why would things be much if any different today ? when ever there are strong winds that maybe carrying atomic Particles towards Cities or towns like St Georges UT or Las Vegas NV..

That I suspect that the Govt may not wish to clarify...

and if people are effected by such things.. in what way does it tend to effect them...

Is it likely to cause more Cancers or illnesses or shorten life's  more  than most further away safer areas that maybe classed outside a danger zone ! if there are such places.. as I recall or know particles can travel many Miles thru the air currents before they settle back to ground level.

But I assume closer proximities will tend to have more chance or combined particles that increase higher risk of harm from them..

Being in a desert area... Its had to tell if any general vegetation or animals / insects is /are effected.. and higher areas like Mountain areas that may have more vegetation in desert areas...are less likely to be effected..as the particles are less likely to rise into too higher zones..

It maybe Desert type vegetation is less effected as its harsher  / more protected...

So Humans may not be able to really notice too well if there surrounding areas / environment are showing many signs of being effected..



Quote
The news media has ALWAYS lied to you :P

50 Years Later, The Tragedy of Nuclear Tests in Nevada

Quote
It was a popular theme among prominent commentators like syndicated columnist David Lawrence, whose wisdom appeared in the Washington Post and other leading newspapers. "The truth is," he wrote in spring 1955, "there isn't the slightest proof of any kind that the 'fallout' as a result of tests in Nevada has ever affected any human being anywhere outside the testing ground itself."
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: astr0144 on April 25, 2018, 07:19:02 am
I found this that looks interesting....This shows wind directions and strength around the USA...

unfortunately it seems just for today from what I can see so far...

I was looking to try to find how general certain wind directions may tend to be at varying times of the year..

or maybe also in past dates / years..

There maybe some other similar websites that show such things..

You can zoom into what area you want to see in more detail..

Presently Winds around the NTS today April 25th 2018  dont seem to be moving from the NTS towards St Georges UT or Las Vegas... and probably are only light winds..

http://hint.fm/wind/

This shows some different months of the year for 2012 to get some idea how winds may vary...which you can click to appear live like back then...

I was looking for some evidence that there is a more regular wind pattern from the Direction of the NTS to the South to South East.... but overall I am not sure that the images / replay activity  seem to suggest that the winds tend to go in those directions..

I was also trying to see what Months may tend to be the most relevant to being in that direction or of higher concern / threat...

being in the desert areas... maybe overall the winds are calm...or even go in other directions..away from Las Vegas and St Georges..

Also  maybe the area is not seen as  that far from the west Coast...and the coastal winds may tend to come more from the South / South west..  Not sure how the Surrounding Mountain ranges may also effect  the areas..


This gives some details of the general yearly Wind directions at Las Vegas Mccarran Airport...

which seems to indicate that  the wind would actually act or oppose any threat from the NTS South East direction area... ie to oppose and  blow it towards the North  to North East direction...

https://www.windfinder.com/windstatistics/las_vegas_mccarran_airport


The article section should read 75 Miles North West of Las Vegas... NOT North East of it ...


Quote
Over 41 years, the federal government detonated 921 nuclear warheads underground at the Nevada Test Site, 75 miles northeast of Las Vegas. Each explosion deposited a toxic load of radioactivity into the ground and, in some cases, directly into aquifers.

Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: A51Watcher on April 25, 2018, 10:42:04 pm
Hiroshima... direct hit,

doing fine today.

(https://en.vietnamtoday.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/20171009162944-1.jpg)


Nagasaki... direct hit,

doing fine today.

(https://blogsimages.adobe.com/creativestation/files/2017/11/bd63a9c02b9df1f8afae79e722382a42.jpg)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGPiKswhgy8




In the image below, we see containment of radiation in the north, and no containment in the south.

The difference is in the mountain ranges in the north. Notice how they contain the spread -


(https://s3.amazonaws.com/user-media.venngage.com/479513-711c4d9676305697e840a1f9f77dd72d.jpg)



Groom Lake... direct hit,

doing fine today.

Now note the numerous mountain ranges between the NTS and Papoose -

(https://noriohayakawa.files.wordpress.com/2017/01/area-51-00-1.jpg)



Papoose was protected on both sides by mountains and distance from both the NTS and Groom Lake Atomic bombing missions.

Hiroshima was a direct hit at ground zero.

And what was the reading today?


Current readings at the Rachel 'weather station' continue to be within normal limits.

And it's only a couple miles away.  ;)


 
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: astr0144 on April 26, 2018, 05:26:59 am
In Ref to the Japan WW 2 Nuke Bombings... Back then  those Nukes were much smaller compared to ones tested over the years at the NTS ... as was indicated in those Nuke web links we posted that gave Bomb size and radiation area effect details...

Where as the Nukes tested in the NTS  ....have been larger / higher radiation  level and numerous over more time..

But as the websites described the radiation threat of those tested were within a 5 SQ mile range as as I can make out.

The Mountains probably have contained much of their effect and also limited, protected, shielded or reduced the effects of the Winds..

Looking at that wind website however... It seemed that generally most winds tru out the various months of the year seemed to tend to be towards the North / North East... which would send any particle threats more towards Groom Lake / Rachel...

It probably mainly would be during quite intense dust type storms when particles would likey tend to travel and maybe they would only be spread out and and not combined to be too much of a threat..

BUT I wonder why it was suggested that there had been such a problem at St Georges where it suggested that winds had blown Nuke fall out towards that town.. that was over 150 miles away...

Most surounding Towns around the NTS are few or just small towns..

So I still have to question certain things...

But the Mountain Ranges between the NTS and Papoose Lake ...Probably or possibly could act in a way that they make any air currents from the NTS direction... to tend to rise higher via the Mountains directing the air flows upwards and the flow of air (containing such Nuke Particle )may well tend to pass over lower Papoose Lake valley area.... or the particles would be less when they may fall into the area as the winds speeds drop...

but generally I think thru out the year... that area is quite calm.. and that is quite possibly or probably why they choose it.. to contain it more..


Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: ArMaP on April 26, 2018, 05:48:01 am
In Ref to the Japan WW 2 Nuke Bombings... Back then  those Nukes were much smaller compared to ones tested over the years at the NTS ... as was indicated in those Nuke web links we posted that gave Bomb size and radiation area effect details...

Where as the Nukes tested in the NTS  ....have been larger / higher radiation  level and numerous over more time..
There are many things that can be different, besides the power of the bomb: if it was an underground detonation, if it was on the ground or above ground, how high it was above ground, the type of bomb used (atomic bombs come in different types, some release more radiation than others, some release more alpha and beta radiation and less gamma radiation than others, etc.
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: astr0144 on April 26, 2018, 06:55:17 am
Yes those factors probably vary quite a lot ArMaP..

I have not as yet read in detail the more indepth details of the Nuke Bombs tested...that I think Zorgon posted.

On testing... in terms of Nukes... I would ave thought that Gamma was the main concern that was a threat...
but were all the tests using Gamma... I am not sure..

I think generally the Underground testing effects would have been contained and may had been the most.. so its the above ground ones that would be the concerns.

I think I still need to satisy myself... that if St Georges in Utah ... over 150 miles away where the wind directions do not appear as being towards there.... Then why is / was it that it was quite severely effected ... and maybe its not being made clear if other surrounding areas in other directions have been effected in the same way at certain times when those tests have occurred..

Maybe for some reason... those effects happened in the earlier days and since... they altered somethings to alter the future tests to have less effects...

I need to do some further research to try to figure it out..

Some articles seem to suggest that the tests done between 1952 to 1957 were the ones that have caused most health concerns to anyone inside a certain range to the area...

Maybe More Bombs were tested in that period...but were generally smaller than the ones developed and tested in later years..

Area 51 / S4 were generally built and developed fully some years later .


some refs :

Quote
In a report by the National Cancer Institute, released in 1997, it was determined that the nearly ninety atmospheric tests at the Nevada Test Site (NTS) left high levels of radioactive iodine-131 (5.5 exabecquerels) across a large area of the continental United States, especially in the years 1952, 1953, 1955, and 1957. The National Cancer Institute report estimates that doses received in these years are estimated to be large enough to produce 10,000 to 75,000 additional cases of thyroid cancer in the U.S.


Quote
Downwind exposure produced by Nevada Test Site. This map strongly suggests that there are some state-specific differences in reporting.

From 1951 – mid-1962, the Nevada Test Site (NTS) was a primary site used for both surface and above-ground nuclear testing, with 86 tests at or above ground level, and 14 other tests underground, all of which involved releases of significant amounts of radioactive material into the atmosphere.

In the 1950s, people who lived in the vicinity of the NTS were encouraged to sit outside and watch the mushroom clouds that were created by nuclear bomb explosions. Many were given radiation badges to wear on their clothes, which were later collected by the Atomic Energy Commission to gather data about radiation levels.

In a report by the National Cancer Institute, released in 1997, it was determined that the nearly ninety atmospheric tests at the Nevada Test Site (NTS) left high levels of radioactive iodine-131 (5.5 exabecquerels) across a large area of the continental United States, especially in the years 1952, 1953, 1955, and 1957. The National Cancer Institute report estimates that doses received in these years are estimated to be large enough to produce 10,000 to 75,000 additional cases of thyroid cancer in the U.S.[13] Another report, published by the Scientific Research Society, estimates that about 22,000 additional radiation-related cancers and 2,000 additional deaths from radiation-related leukemia are expected to occur in the United States because of external and internal radiation from both NTS and global fallout.[9]

The threat of downwind exposure to radioactivity remaining at the Nevada Test Site from nuclear weapons tests was still an issue as late as 2007. The Pentagon planned to test a 700-ton ammonium nitrate-and-fuel oil "bunker buster" weapon. The planned "Divine Strake" test would have raised a large mushroom cloud of contaminated dust that could have blown toward population centers such as Las Vegas, Boise, Salt Lake City, and St. George, Utah. This project was cancelled in February 2007, in large part due to political pressure inspired by the threat of downwind exposure to radioactivity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downwinders

Quote
In the 1950s, people living close to the test site were encouraged to watch the nuclear tests from their porches. Many of the so-called Downwinders report setting their alarm-clocks so that they would not miss the early-morning detonations. Many were given radiation badges by the Atomic Energy Commission, so that their exposure dose could be recorded for field studies on the effects of nuclear fallout. Due to prevailing wind currents, the inhabitants of Utah were among those most affected by radioactive fallout. Radioactive particles such as iodine-131 can enter the body through contaminated air, food or drink and can lead to cancer once incorporated. Children in the small town of St. George, Utah may have received thyroid doses of up to 1.2–4.4 Sievert. Subsequent epidemiological studies have shown a significant rise in the incidence of leukemia and thyroid cancer in the populations living downwind from the nuclear testing site

http://www.nuclear-risks.org/en/hibakusha-worldwide/nevada-test-site.html


Quote
One notable test shot was the "Sedan" shot of Operation Storax, a 104 kiloton shot for the Operation Plowshare which sought to prove that nuclear weapons could be used for peaceful means in creating bays or canals—it created a crater 1,280 feet (390 m) wide and 320 feet (100 m) deep that can still be seen today. While most of the larger tests were conducted elsewhere, NTS was home to tests in the 500 kiloton to 1 megaton (2 to 4 petajoule) range, which caused noticeable seismic effects in Las Vegas.

http://wikimapia.org/5851788/Nevada-National-Security-Site


Quote
There are many things that can be different, besides the power of the bomb: if it was an underground detonation, if it was on the ground or above ground, how high it was above ground, the type of bomb used (atomic bombs come in different types, some release more radiation than others, some release more alpha and beta radiation and less gamma radiation than others, etc.

Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: astr0144 on April 26, 2018, 07:32:22 am
This is part of the answer to one of my questions...

They only tested when the Wind Direction was from the West ...to protect certain other cities and towns.
Hence why St Georges was unlucky to be within the direction of the Wind carrying the Nuke Particles.

The article says its only 135 Miles between the NTS and St Georges..


When the USA military ‘dirty bombed’ Americans


(https://calculating.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/nnsa-nso-787.jpg)



(https://calculating.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/screen-shot-2014-10-09-at-13-37-09.png?w=500&h=340)




Quote
When the USA military ‘dirty bombed’ Americans

Between 1951 and 1992   ...   928  nuclear tests took place at the Nevada Test Site [NTS]. One hundred of these were above ground. The last atmospheric test detonation at the Nevada Test Site was “Little Feller” of Operation Sunbeam, on 17 July 1962.

NNSA-NSO-787

The NTS is only 65 miles [105 km] from Las Vegas and the mushroom clouds from the above ground detonations were clearly visible from the city. However, above ground tests were only conducted when the wind was from the west and fallout would not affect LV or California.  Cities to the east of the NTS were not so protected. The city of St. George, Utah was the worse affected by fallout from the NTS.


Screen Shot 2014-10-09 at 13.37.09

From the mid-1950s through 1980 the city and southern Utah reported marked increases in cancers, such as leukaemia, lymphoma, thyroid cancer, breast cancer, melanoma, bone cancer, brain tumours, and gastrointestinal tract cancers. The 1953 detonation of the  32 kiloton “Dirty Harry” bomb generated a tremendous amount of fallout.  Winds carried fallout 135 miles (217 km) to St. George, where residents reported “an oddly metallic sort of taste in the air.” ”


Claudia Peterson has a vivid memory from her 1950s childhood in southern Utah. She remembers watching a glowing orange ball move off the western horizon while she rocked back and forth in her swing set the summer she was four, and walking past piles of dead lambs during lambing season. Some had two heads, and others had no legs. Peterson remembers men in tidy, black suits visiting her classroom at East Elementary School in Cedar City with Geiger counters—and feeling a sense of pride that she lit up the counter when they waved it in front of her face. They told her it was from dental x-rays, but she knew she had never had one. She recalls sixth grade when one of her schoolmates died of leukemia, and eighth grade when bone cancer took first her friend’s leg and then his life.”              National Geographic

In a 1997 report  it was determined that ninety atmospheric tests at the NTS had deposited high levels of radioactive iodine-131  across a large portion of the contiguous United States, especially in the years 1952, 1953, 1955, and 1957—doses large enough to produce tens of thousands of cases of thyroid cancer. By 2014  28,880 claims for compensation had been approved for a total compensation of $1.9 billion.

nevada test fallout

Iodine-131 Fallout From the Nevada Test Site ”

Rain, wind, and the food supply spread Iodine 131 from these tests across the United States, with the largest deposits immediately downwind of the test site and the lowest on the West Coast, upwind of the site. Exposure to released iodine occurred mainly during the first two months following a test. After that I 131 disintegrated to harmless levels. Because I 131 accumulates in the thyroid gland, the National Cancer Institute estimates that the fallout may have caused up to 212,000 cases of thyroid cancer in people who were exposed. The average cumulative thyroid dose to approximately 160 million people who lived in the country during testing was about two rads, about five times the radiation dose emitted by a mammogram. A rad is the measurement unit for the amount of radiation the body absorbs. The federal government recommends medical monitoring for people who have been exposed to ten rads or more.

Americans were exposed to varying levels depending on their residence, age, and food consumption. People who lived in Western states to the north and east of the site, such as Colorado, Idaho, Montana, South Dakota, and Utah, had the highest per capita thyroid doses, ranging from 9 to 16 rads. And children between three months to five years old in these high fallout areas probably received three to seven times the average dose for the population in their county because they had smaller thyroids and tended to drink more milk than adults.  Milk was a major exposure vehicle because I 131 fell on pasture grasses and then was consumed by cows. But an estimated 20,000 people who drank goats’ milk during testing were at an even greater risk because it concentrates Iodine 131 more than cows’ milk. Thyroid doses to these individuals could be 10 to 20 times greater than to residents of the same county, who were the same age and gender, and drank an equal amount of cows’ milk. Other pathways included inhaling contaminated air or ingesting tainted leafy vegetables, cottage cheese, and eggs.” National Geographic


https://calculating.wordpress.com/2014/10/09/when-the-usa-dirty-bombed-itself/

Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: space otter on April 26, 2018, 07:47:20 am


i apologise for not having read the whole of this thread but

I posit this....

...that the radiation from those bombs and tests have changed our genetics
 and as such have introduced both cancer and the sexual explosion occurring with folks wanting to change what they came with..along with other psychological things,

so that 70 some years later..while  it looks fine on the surface many deep changes HAVE  happened

but hey what do i know
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: astr0144 on April 26, 2018, 08:39:17 am
I think that it may have created certain cancers S.O ....from various Nuclear activity around the World...

But I had not considered if  effecting Humans psychologically or sexually...

I thought that maybe more down to the attacks what maybe put in our food and water and drugs etc... or maybe some sort of mind control via high tech EMF technology, chemtrials or media by the corrupt Govts or the  NWO... also maybe trying to convince us its more acceptable to consider and accept it..or to alter our mind states.. or shorten , reduce  our natural lifespans.

Although Nuke particles will also come into contact with food crops and water... so that may also be part of it..

As Alex Jones may suggest to reduce Sexual reproductive type sexual activities.. if they believe populations have got too large...but maybe Nukes are another addition to the list !  ???



i apologise for not having read the whole of this thread but

I posit this....

...that the radiation from those bombs and tests have changed our genetics
 and as such have introduced both cancer and the sexual explosion occurring with folks wanting to change what they came with..along with other psychological things,

so that 70 some years later..while  it looks fine on the surface many deep changes HAVE  happened

but hey what do i know
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: space otter on April 26, 2018, 10:40:52 am


Astro
sorry i disagree with you on a lot of that..i don't think it was planned so much as a unforeseen consequence of the testing

when those explosive chemicals entered the ground and atmosphere
the result, besides explosives killing many,
are that the genetics of the remaining populace are changed
then the entire body system is changed
ALL of it...

and  those born  after the mid 50's will certainly show those differences and then the children of that first changed generation
 is also exposed and they become even more diverse
until we get to now and we are all continuously exposed

and look at what we are and have today in folks compared to
those born in the 40's and early 50's

imo  it is unfortunate that we are the creators of our own evolution

but we have probably had more of a hand at it that we should have had thru out history anyway

Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: The Seeker on April 26, 2018, 12:47:03 pm
We have always been exposed to a certain amount of natural background radiation from the environment, plus getting dosed from our sun; unfortunately, that has been greatly accelerated by all the tests and boo-boo's like Chernobyl and Fukushima...

to quote Sarah Connor "No Fate but what we make"
unfortunately there is no changing what has been done...
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 26, 2018, 01:42:11 pm
i apologise for not having read the whole of this thread but

:P

 ::)

Quote
I posit this....

...that the radiation from those bombs and tests have changed our genetics
 and as such have introduced both cancer and the sexual explosion occurring with folks wanting to change what they came with..along with other psychological things,

so that 70 some years later..while  it looks fine on the surface many deep changes HAVE  happened

Mutations :D


A Long time ago in a Galaxy.. well right here actually  :P

The Earth was a lot closer to the sun, covered in clouds like Venus.  Then came WAR between the three inhabited planets... Earth, Mars and Planet X :P foe want of a better name :D

Planet X was destroyed utterly and became the asteroid belt... it's major moon is still there CERES..

The resulting explosion of Planet X ripped off the atmosphere from Mars and bumped Earth out of orbit, to the orbit we now settled in.  The collision also ripped our moon out of the Pacific leaving that still active ring of fire.

Being further out now it was colder so the clouds let loose all their water and flooded most of the Earth...

Okay that is the short version :D  The Bible has bits and pieces of the story but not in chronological order (like the Sun stopping in the Heavens)

What changed is we were now exposed to radiation  Life spans pre flood were 800-1000 years or so... Now we can barely manage 100



Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 26, 2018, 01:50:25 pm
All this talk about radiation levels is mostly irrelevant because radiation depends on only ONE FACTOR

Radioactive Decay

In Fukushima  the first blast released tons of IODINE 131.  This reached the California Kelp  banks in days...

Everyone rushed out to buy Potassium Iodide  :P 

BUT  the fact about IODINE 131 is the HALF LIFE 

Iodine 131 is a radioisotope with a very short half-life of 8.02 days, making it highly radioactive. Frequently used in small doses in thyroid cancers therapies, it is also one of the most feared fission products when accidentally released into the environment.

But what this also means is that in 8 days HALF the radiation is gone, then another half in the next 8 days and so on...

half-life
the time taken for the radioactivity of a specified isotope to fall to half its original value.


TRITIUM is a radioactive isotope of the element hydrogen. Tritium is radioactive and has a half-life of about 12.5 years, which means that half of the radioactive atoms will decay naturally in that time.

PLUTONIUM  Pu-239 has a half-life of 24,100 years and Pu-241's half-life is 14.4 years. Substances with shorter half-lives decay more quickly than those with longer half-lives, so they emit more energetic radioactivity. Like any radioactive isotopes, plutonium isotopes transform when they decay.

URANIUM The half-life of uranium-238 is about 4.5 billion years, uranium-235 about 700 million years, and uranium-234 about 25 thousand years. Uranium atoms decay into other atoms, or radionuclides, that are also radioactive and commonly called "decay products."

THORIUM All known thorium isotopes are unstable. The most stable isotope, 232Th, has a half-life of 14.05 billion years, or about the age of the universe; it decays very slowly via alpha decay, starting a decay chain named the thorium series that ends at stable 208Pb.
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: ArMaP on April 26, 2018, 03:59:43 pm
All this talk about radiation levels is mostly irrelevant because radiation depends on only ONE FACTOR

Radioactive Decay
That's why I said that the type of bomb makes a difference, as some use Uranium, some Plutonium, for example.
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: astr0144 on April 26, 2018, 06:09:47 pm
I am a bit uncertain on some of what you refer to S.Otter  in what you may disagree with.

All I referred to was what I thought many who have studied much of what I thought was the most more common related conspiracy theories as to how us Humans maybe being effected that many believe have been done via either Corrupt Govts or something that we may thik of as the NWO... Then I did say that your comments on how Nuclear testing has also effected us in the ways that you described also probably do have effects food crops and water etc also..and that they may also have some effect on our behaviours that I think you related to be it Psychologically or sexually...So I was not disagreeing with you on that..

But maybe I had not fully understood what you were saying..

Are you suggesting that the NUKE tests may have been done deliberate to cause us the problems that you refer to..
or are you suggesting, that it was not planned that way... But its a case that.. this is what has ended up being the result of it all...  or do you mean something else..

It maybe hard for me to try to fully understand what you are referring to... as I find trying to compare people born before the 1950s or that generation... verses that of today hard to judge..

Again are you suggesting a lot of these differences are mainly down to the results of the Nuke tests in how the generation seems to differ...

As some may just see it down to changes in how we know live ...and maybe also to changes in techology.... that also alters the food that we eat... that may alter our genetics or way that we behave... be it by design say from the NWO... or just by fate...

In the western world.. we are now a LOT Softer than previous generations..

and TV and the media... and maybe more modern views and education could certainly alter us psychologically...

or may be in terms  in education  sexually ... may alter our psychology on how we may view or act..different today compared to pre 1950..   

But Physically... other than just sexual... How would you say we tend to differ ?   in how are our genetics altering us

Are we overall less strong , less fit.....differ in build....Physically...

Do we live longer today compared to pre 1950s overall ?

Many suggest modern diet and healthcare drugs etc... should prelong our lifes today.. and maybe will if the NWO theories are B.S...its suggested that People are now living longer and we have a old age population problem..and will struggle to fund it...and the healthcare required..More older genertion people know are having to sell their homes to pay for their care... so thats what is aiding funding the healthcare system more today I think...

I think its very hard to really know what is going on and how somethings compare..

as we can be told certain things... but do we really know what the truths are ?




Astro
sorry i disagree with you on a lot of that..i don't think it was planned so much as a unforeseen consequence of the testing

when those explosive chemicals entered the ground and atmosphere
the result, besides explosives killing many,
are that the genetics of the remaining populace are changed
then the entire body system is changed
ALL of it...

and  those born  after the mid 50's will certainly show those differences and then the children of that first changed generation
 is also exposed and they become even more diverse
until we get to now and we are all continuously exposed

and look at what we are and have today in folks compared to
those born in the 40's and early 50's

imo  it is unfortunate that we are the creators of our own evolution

but we have probably had more of a hand at it that we should have had thru out history anyway
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: space otter on April 26, 2018, 07:49:04 pm


Quote
I am a bit uncertain on some of what you refer to S.Otter  in what you may disagree with.

Astro
i was disagreeing with what i thought you meant
and
 i thought that you were saying that the 'fallout'  from the testing was done on purpose with some planned results by governments or others doing the testing.


 some think there was no lasting harm done..i disagree and stated what i thought
that's all nothing more
 and no need on my part to pick it apart further

Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 26, 2018, 09:49:40 pm
Back in those days they had no idea how dangerous radiation was..

They DID line up soldiers (who are always Cannon fodder :P ) at different distances from the blast in trenches to see what the effect would be while the White Coats and Generals hid behind protective barriers

Well they must have had SOME idea as they did hide in those bunkers... and waited for the winds to blow it into UTAH :P

In fact they even made cosmetics, tooth paste and other products with radioactive materials :D

And Depression Glass, especially the GREEN stuff, is highly radioactive  and glows nice under UV light  :D  If you have a large collection of this pretty stuff I would suggest you sell it :P  Before you roast your gonads

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/5a/1a/1d/5a1a1db196dc3ae93070d3e19b63ea77.jpg)

German Toothpaste

(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--GYwaKdJI--/c_fill,f_auto,fl_progressive,g_center,h_675,q_80,w_1200/18n4guqfs1ujajpg.jpg)

Radium Butter

(http://static.messynessychic.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/radiumbrandbutter.jpg)

Radium Cosmetics - Makes you look Radient!

(https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/write_light/11965346/108429/108429_original.jpg)

France - Thorium Lipstick

(http://static.messynessychic.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/lipstickradium.jpg)

Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 26, 2018, 09:52:16 pm
This one   LOL   Good for constipation?

(http://longstreet.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83542d51e69e20133f45ee1d2970b-pi)

And I am SURE BOB LAZAR started with one of THESE

(http://www.dvorak.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/550_GilbertAtomic.jpg)

And a TREAT after play time

Uranium Ice Cream


(https://teara.govt.nz/files/e4787atl.gif)

It's a wonder anyone lived through the Era

Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 26, 2018, 10:17:53 pm
That's why I said that the type of bomb makes a difference, as some use Uranium, some Plutonium, for example.

COBALT  :D

Cobalt bomb

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
For cancer radiation treatments delivered from a device with a Cobalt-60 isotope source, see cobalt therapy.

A cobalt bomb is a type of "salted bomb": a nuclear weapon designed to produce enhanced amounts of radioactive fallout, intended to contaminate a large area with radioactive material. The concept of a cobalt bomb was originally described in a radio program by physicist Leó Szilárd on February 26, 1950. His intent was not to propose that such a weapon be built, but to show that nuclear weapon technology would soon reach the point where it could end human life on Earth, a doomsday device. Such "salted" weapons were requested by the U.S. Air Force and seriously investigated, but not deployed. In the 1964 edition of the U.S. Department of Defense book The Effects of Nuclear Weapons, a new section titled radiological warfare clarified the "Doomsday device" issue.

The Russian Federation has allegedly developed cobalt warheads for use with their Status-6 Oceanic Multipurpose System nuclear torpedoes. However many commentators doubt that this is a real project, and see it as more likely to be a staged leak to intimidate the US. Amongst other comments on it, Edward Moore Geist wrote a paper in which he says that "Russian decision makers would have little confidence that these areas would be in the intended locations"[8] and Russian military experts are cited as saying that "Robotic torpedo shown could have other purposes, such as delivering deep-sea equipment or installing surveillance devices."

The Operation Antler/Round 1 test by the British at the Tadje site in the Maralinga range in Australia on September 14, 1957, tested a bomb using cobalt pellets as a radiochemical tracer for estimating yield. This was considered a failure and the experiment was not repeated. The triple "taiga" nuclear salvo test, as part of the preliminary March 1971 Pechora–Kama Canal project, produced relatively high amounts of Co-60 from the steel that surrounded the Taiga devices, with this fusion generated neutron activation product being responsible for about half of the gamma dose now (2011) at the test site. This high percentage contribution is largely because the devices did not rely much at all on fission reactions and thus the quantity of gamma emitting cesium-137 fallout, is therefore comparatively low. Photosynthesizing vegetation exists all around the lake that was formed.


But it is SO PRETTY in GLASS :D

(https://glassbottlemarks.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/bromo-seltzer-bottles.jpg)

(https://geology.com/articles/colored-glass/blue-royal-lace-bowl.jpg)

Well  WHY do you THINK they call it "Cobalt Blue Glass"  :P
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: astr0144 on April 27, 2018, 01:02:59 pm
No Space Otter...Initially  I was not suggesting that the Nuke Tests were done deliberately..

That was whatI thought that maybe what you had suggested and later I said that it could have also been another possibilty if the NWO or Corrupt Govts were maybe adding it to some of the other possible agendas thatI referred to in the way that they may have been attacking us...(such as poisioning food water , drugs / vaccines ,chemtrials etc..)

But I think you have since understood what I was referring to and also was just pointing out that the Nuke tests will have caused humans problems in the ways that you described..(that changed Humans states.. such as sexually / psychologically etc ) which I later said that initially I had not looked at it in that way... but later said that I may agree with you that it could be a possibility..

I think i was just trying to compare how the pre 1950s generation V the generation differences today.. and maybe some of the reasons why or hw they may now differ.. I thought maybe quite hard to really explain... as I can see many reasons and possibilities... but I am not really sure what if any may be the right answers to such questions or thoughts on such a topic as I see it as being potentually very complex..




Astro
i was disagreeing with what i thought you meant
and  i thought that you were saying that the 'fallout'  from the testing was done on purpose with some planned results by governments or others doing the testing.


 some think there was no lasting harm done..i disagree and stated what i thought
that's all nothing more  and no need on my part to pick it apart further



What you describe seems relevant Zorgon..

What I am not really sure about..is what were the main tests done in terms of radioactive materials used...and how many have effected into the environment and ourselves and to what extent.. be it mainly in and around the NTS area zone for eg within 200 miles zone or the whole of the USA / World..

Are we to assume that the nasty tests,  Plutonium and Uranium ones were mainly performed as underground tests done in LEAD metal Protective Casings shielding... or were some of them type tested  above ground ? and to what level in KTs or radiation strength.

or has any of those underground tests leaked, when we see so many subsidence craters...

Are most of those craters suggested as mainly from "Above ground Tests" ones.. or  below ground subsidence ones ...   I wonder !

this suggests 828 out of 928 were done underground in the 1951–1992 period.

How much of those dangerous materials Nuke tests are now likely to acting above ground  that maybe lasting and having effects on us for  25,000 years.


1951–1992
Quote
The Nevada Test Site was the primary testing location of American nuclear devices from 1951 to 1992; : 928 announced nuclear tests occurred there. Of those, 828 were underground.[6] (Sixty-two of the underground tests included multiple, simultaneous nuclear detonations, adding 93 detonations and bringing the total number of NTS nuclear detonations to 1,021, of which 921 were underground.)[7] The site is covered with subsidence craters from the testing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nevada_Test_Site

Dreamland resort has some detailed info on certain tests..

http://www.dreamlandresort.com/area51/project_57.html


ArMaP  ...related comments !

 
Quote
Zorgon :  All this talk about radiation levels is mostly irrelevant because radiation depends on only ONE FACTOR

    Radioactive Decay

Quote
ArMaP: That's why I said that the type of bomb makes a difference, as some use Uranium, some Plutonium, for example.

There are many things that can be different, besides the power of the bomb: if it was an underground detonation, if it was on the ground or above ground, how high it was above ground, the type of bomb used (atomic bombs come in different types, some release more radiation than others, some release more alpha and beta radiation and less gamma radiation than others, etc.


Quote
Zorgon : The Plutonium under ground will stay 'hot' for about 25,000 years


Quote
Zorgon :
half-life
the time taken for the radioactivity of a specified isotope to fall to half its original value.

TRITIUM is a radioactive isotope of the element hydrogen. Tritium is radioactive and has a half-life of about 12.5 years, which means that half of the radioactive atoms will decay naturally in that time.

PLUTONIUM  Pu-239 has a half-life of 24,100 years and Pu-241's half-life is 14.4 years. Substances with shorter half-lives decay more quickly than those with longer half-lives, so they emit more energetic radioactivity. Like any radioactive isotopes, plutonium isotopes transform when they decay.

URANIUM The half-life of uranium-238 is about 4.5 billion years, uranium-235 about 700 million years, and uranium-234 about 25 thousand years. Uranium atoms decay into other atoms, or radionuclides, that are also radioactive and commonly called "decay products."

THORIUM All known thorium isotopes are unstable. The most stable isotope, 232Th, has a half-life of 14.05 billion years, or about the age of the universe; it decays very slowly via alpha decay, starting a decay chain named the thorium series that ends at stable 208Pb.





Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 27, 2018, 04:57:08 pm
Back on Topic  :P


Posted at ATS  Seems they found our photo :P

vlawde

posted on Apr, 26 2018 @ 10:10 AM link (http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread1204259/pg21#pid23349918)   
Well well well....it appears we may know who else might be in Jeremy's movie. Or at least has a connection to the ranch, as has been speculated here. Look in the back seat


(http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/ai5ae1eba3.jpg)


Quote
pigsy2400
posted on Apr, 26 2018 @ 12:08 PM

I have an issue with this. All of the major players within the "community" or the topic in general are all connected. Lazar and Lear, Lear and the CIA and aircraft design legacy, Lazar and Knapp, Knapp and Bigelow, Bigelow and Coast2Coast(in the beginning,)Bigelow and MUFON, MUFON and the all the "top" UFOlogists and their podcasts and merchandise and conference talks, Leslie Kean and TTSA and the Intelligence community and skunkworks and TDL.

I know I have laid it out very simply, but think of all of the top theories / stories from the last 20 years and ultimately they all involve one or a mixture of the above. I would be happy for someone to mention a BIG UFO / UAP story that doesn't?

I really like some of the aforementioned a well, even if just as entertainment, but this all plays out sometimes like nothing more than a entertainment industry mixed in with disinformation to achieve.... well I don't know.

If the "truth" whatever that maybe, comes out and is vastly different than what any of the above have ever declared then what?

May seem like I am ranting, but in all honesty, with all the mud and mirk in the water; I may even withdraw from the whole subject matter for a while and revisit it to see if anythings changed in the future, as the more "answers" we are served the more the whole subject becomes more unbearable and more unreadable as time progresses.

But hey....maybe that's the point..

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread1204259/pg21#pid23350310
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 27, 2018, 05:04:42 pm
Quote
Ectoplasm8
posted on Apr, 26 2018 @ 10:35 PM

originally posted by: RobertSheaffer
At the end of Patient Seventeen, Corbell basically says that Steven Colbern is still hanging on to the sample, and will not allow it to be retested.


Yeah, you're right. Seems like a little spin on his wording to make it seem like "part II" is hinging upon these new results when most likely there will be none.
Bad UFOs Robert Sheaffer?   

Seeing Tom DeLonge in the backseat of that car would only help further support the entertainment outcome of this film if he's associated. What have we gleaned from past Corbell documentaries that gives anyone hope for answers to Skinwalker ranch? Not that answers are required. He's shown that he associates himself with similar minded "experts" who give results based on their own bias. Is this what UFO/alien proponents want?

Springer

posted on Apr, 27 2018 @ 01:50 AM link   
TDL was not on our trip and is not in the movie...   :(



Quote
KellyPrettyBear

posted on Apr, 27 2018 @ 08:01 AM link   
a reply to: Springer

Mark,

as I recall, you were pretty stoked about TTSA in the beginning?
Now look what's happened to it.. it's become one of the most
ineptly fraudulent operations of all time..

I know that you are friends with George and some other people,
just like I"m friends with JV and other people.. so you are very
keen on trusting some of the people.. like I am...

So I'm not throwing rocks at you or George or anyone with
integrity..

but doesn't this picture make you sick to your stomach
?

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread1204259/pg22
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on April 27, 2018, 05:06:19 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krD4hdGvGHM
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: Irene on April 27, 2018, 05:12:32 pm
"But SCHTEW-PID."
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: space otter on May 04, 2018, 07:37:49 am


i think this fits here


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/a-single-jawbone-has-revealed-just-how-much-radiation-hiroshima-bomb-victims-absorbed/ar-AAwFlTL?li=BBnb7Kz

A single jawbone has revealed just how much radiation Hiroshima bomb victims absorbed
Kristine Guerra  1 day ago




 copied pieces of a good but long article  worth the read

..
Twenty-seven years later, a scientist from across the Pacific Ocean arrived in Hiroshima with what was considered then a novel idea. Brazilian physicist Sérgio Mascarenhas, at the time a visiting professor at Harvard University, said that exposure to radiation makes human bone magnetic, and that “magnetic memory” existed in the bones of atomic bombing victims years after the explosion. Scientists could measure radiation exposure by examining the bones of victims, Mascarenhas proposed.

...

 including a jawbone that belonged to a person who was less than a mile away from Ground Zero. They were able to estimate the amount of radiation present in the bones, according to a paper Mascarenhas presented to the American Physical Society meeting in April 1973 in Washington, but specific calculations could not be achieved with 1970s technology.

.....

Using a technique called electron spin resonance, the researchers measured that the jawbone had absorbed 9.46 grays of radiation from the Hiroshima attack. (A gray or Gy is a unit used to measure the amount of radiation absorbed by an object or a person.)

To place this in context: A cancer patient receiving radiotherapy treatment is exposed to about 2 to 3 grays on a very localized part of the body where a tumor is located. Whole-body radiation with about 5 grays — nearly half of the amount calculated from the jawbone — is enough to kill a person, Oswaldo Baffa, one of the researchers and a professor at the University of São Paulo, told The Washington Post Tuesday.



i wonder if the time element between  the death and the testing is relevant


The measurement we obtained in this latest study is more reliable and up to date than the preliminary finding, but I’m currently evaluating a methodology that’s about a thousand times more sensitive than [electronic] spin resonance,” he said. “We’ll have news in a few months.”

.............................................


http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0306312716632933
Survivors and scientists: Hiroshima, Fukushima, and the Radiation Effects Research Foundation, 1975–2014
Susan Lindee    First Published March 9, 2016

.............

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3907953/

Long-term Radiation-Related Health Effects in a Unique Human Population: Lessons Learned from the Atomic Bomb Survivors of Hiroshima and Nagasaki
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on May 04, 2018, 01:19:59 pm
We have always been exposed to a certain amount of natural background radiation from the environment, plus getting dosed from our sun; unfortunately, that has been greatly accelerated by all the tests and boo-boo's like Chernobyl and Fukushima...

A Century of Radiation Therapy and Adaptive Immunity
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5387081/

There have been many studies done... on mice etc... and they find some are radiation proof. Several Russians that go into Chernobly to check on it are also immune to it though they seem to die earlyier of heart attack

If you live in Denver Colorado you get exposed to a lot more than someone at sea level

If you get a lot of X Rays in a year  or are a frequent flyer  you get dosed a lot more...  I have heard that TAS has now removed the body scanners (not verified yet) because frequent flyers might be sterilized

THIS is why X Ray techs leave the room and cover your privates with a lead shield :P

But then if you watch the News on Main Stream TV...  you will find political morons making statements like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXFUUGeV1DI

Meanwhile on a Beach in Brazil that is black sand.  people bury them selves in it because of the unique 'warming' they feel and swear it is healthy and beneficial.  That black sand is radioactive !

"The glistening black sand on the beaches contains radioactive materials such as thorium and monazite. Kerala has the world's highest level of natural radioactivity in a densely populated area, according to the researchers. The radioactive strip measures an area of ten kilometers by one kilomete"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvgAx1yIKjg
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on May 04, 2018, 01:22:40 pm
Going to need to SPLIT this thread as the radioactive stuff has NOTHING to do with Jeremy Corbell and Immaculate Deception
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: A51Watcher on May 06, 2018, 12:57:20 pm

Astro
sorry i disagree with you on a lot of that..i don't think it was planned so much as a unforeseen consequence of the testing

when those explosive chemicals entered the ground and atmosphere
the result, besides explosives killing many,
are that the genetics of the remaining populace are changed
then the entire body system is changed
ALL of it...

and  those born  after the mid 50's will certainly show those differences and then the children of that first changed generation
 is also exposed and they become even more diverse
until we get to now and we are all continuously exposed

and look at what we are and have today in folks compared to
those born in the 40's and early 50's

imo  it is unfortunate that we are the creators of our own evolution

but we have probably had more of a hand at it that we should have had thru out history anyway


I can agree with that.

Any radiation exposure created by us is obviously a bad thing.

My point was to expose the ridiculous nature of alienscientist's debunkery claims and fear mongering that anyone venturing into the S4 area would be shredded like a dandelion from the supposed high amount of radiation there. 

Workers there spend about 2 minutes tops per day going from the shielded bus to the shielded confines of the facility. They also wear dosimeter badges that allow them to be aware of what levels of radiation they are being exposed to during those 2 minutes.

You have to wonder where these guys caught the Stanton Friedman disease of having this fixation of trying to debunk Bob Lazar.

(Btw, Stanton just announced his retirement from Ufology last month in case anyone missed it.)

Why not just take a wait and see attitude since they obviously don't KNOW if his story is true?

Debunkers anxiety levels have risen sharply in the last 2 years as Bob's story has continued to be corroborated by gravity waves being detected 3 times now, and 2 different scientists confirming Bob's employment at Los Alamos as a physicist with a TS clearance.

As I have told you all before, Bob's story will NEVER be debunked, period.

And I will continue to say I told you so with glee as the wall of denial continues to crumble through the coming years.


Bob still has a few aces up his sleeve which he will play as time goes by.

Anyone naive enough to think he doesn't and won't?
 

Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: ArMaP on May 06, 2018, 02:18:20 pm
Debunkers anxiety levels have risen sharply in the last 2 years as Bob's story has continued to be corroborated by gravity waves being detected 3 times now, and 2 different scientists confirming Bob's employment at Los Alamos as a physicist with a TS clearance.
Gravity waves? Like these?  ???

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/95/GravityWaves_ArabianSea.MODIS.2005may23.jpg)
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: A51Watcher on May 06, 2018, 02:21:53 pm
Gravity waves? Like these?  ???

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/95/GravityWaves_ArabianSea.MODIS.2005may23.jpg)


More like these -

(https://www.nature.com/polopoly_fs/7.44525.1496327870!/image/web_blackhole_LIGO.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_630/web_blackhole_LIGO.jpg)


https://www.nature.com/news/ligo-spots-gravitational-waves-for-third-time-1.22093 (https://www.nature.com/news/ligo-spots-gravitational-waves-for-third-time-1.22093)




Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: ArMaP on May 06, 2018, 03:39:41 pm
OK, gravitational waves.
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on May 06, 2018, 04:05:51 pm
You have to wonder where these guys caught the Stanton Friedman disease of having this fixation of trying to debunk Bob Lazar.

Now THAT is funny...  Stanton was a failed nuclear scientist that never finished his degree.... then worked a few years at various nuclear related jobs that didn't last and then went to the UFO circuit to make a living. He has stated he never saw a UFO in his life, but he is presented ans an 'expert' ... "because he was a nuclear scientist"  His whole carreeer is based on Bob Lazar bashing  LOL probably from jealousy

Quote
(Btw, Stanton just announced his retirement from Ufology last month in case anyone missed it.)

Nope I caught it LOL Best thing that ever happened to UFOlogy :P

Quote
Bob still has a few aces up his sleeve which he will play as time goes by.

Well he better hurry I ain't no spring chicken  and John took a turn for the worse  so what he waiting for?  I just hope he doesn't get sucked up by this Immaculate Deception
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on May 06, 2018, 04:07:12 pm
OK, gravitational waves.

Yes that is correct  gravitational waves.  Gravity waves has been adopted by the weather people to describe those wave clouds.

Just one more way to add confusion to the mix
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: astr0144 on May 06, 2018, 04:32:13 pm
Watched a related very interesting progam yesterday about history and some conspircies about Las Vegas that also made ref to the NUKE testings... and it cover some of the things we have discussed.. some things it showed were quite hard to believe ! in what they went about doing in order to do the Testings..and what they tested on..

It also mentioned something else that I dont think that I had been aware about...

That was the Nazis plans to destroy Boulder or Hoover  Dam.... that is the South Wests USAs largest Dam that powers Las Vegas and Los Angeles and much of the SW USA...

Unfortunately so far I am  unable to find a video replay of it...

This website has some ref to  the Nazis plan to destroy Hoover Dam and Las Vegas.

In fact it has a video from part of the program that I referred to... :) but I dont think it shows the NUKE testings..


http://the-wanderling.com/hoover_dam02.html


(http://the-wanderling.com/hoover24.jpg)


Quote
During World War II a large portion of the German military hierarchy, all the while raging war all over Europe, Russia and North Africa, still found time to seem excessively over obsessed with destroying a variety of high priority targets in the United States. Their selection of targets were for both psychological intimidating reasons as well as the actual destruction of important war related infrastructure. Sites continually brought up for attack were, among others, New York City, Washington D.C., the defense plants in and around Detroit, and Hoover Dam. Plan after plan for one or the other came on the table. Some plans were rejected as logistically infeasible or to costly relative to the results. However, some plans, seemingly falling into both categories were tested and/or actually put into motion. One of those plans, an attack against Hoover Dam was implemented in more than one way

Of those destruction of Hoover Dam during World War II plans, one was using a submersible craft as covered in an online article titled The German Submarine Attack on Hoover Dam. The premise of the article circulates around an actual attempt late in the year 1944 by the Germans, that is the Third Reich or the Nazis as the case may be, to destroy the dam by coming up the Colorado River from the Sea of Cortez in Mexico and doing so in some kind of a submersible craft armed with a vengeance weapon.

While the submarine attack on the dam remains largely questionable and unsubstantiated in the minds of many, primarily because of any number of false or discredited accounts appearing on the internet and elsewhere usually circulating around the U-boat U-133, the German or Nazi attempt to bomb the dam is different in that it is highly substantiated, backed by reams of data and records from actual certified government agencies.

Although the U-133 attack has been discredited, and resoundingly so as found in The German Submarine Attack on Hoover Dam, in an attempt to set the scene for any kind of an attack on the dam and especially so the specific submarine attack so outlined, it opens with the same paragraph as cited below, in of which for most people is found to be a much more credible scenario. Basically the paragraph states that both the U.S. State Department and the U.S. Embassy in Mexico substantiated that in 1939, well before the war with the U.S. started and a full five years before the alleged submarine attack, German agents were already on the prowl in an effort to destroy the dam and actually arrested for doing so. The connection is of course, even after a lapse of five years of war, the Germans were STILL obsessed with destroying the dam
.



Quote

Codes and Conspiracies

Series 2, Episode 1: Las Vegas

Documentary series exploring the activities of clandestine groups throughout history. Discover why Las Vegas was a Nazi target for wartime sabotage, a test ground for atomic bombs, and a known meeting spot for the 9/11 terrorists.


 



Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: astr0144 on May 06, 2018, 05:04:49 pm
That may have been the Case A51...

There seems to be conflicting views on what the Nuke tests fall out may or may not have done to anyone within a certain range from it and at what times and under what conditions...and how longs effects may or may not have lasted..(and under varied conditions at those times.. (ie such as Windy V Calm days.)

On one video I posted.. that was on Dreamland if I recall.. I referred to part of the video where it shows how S4 may have looked like when the bus arrived their and we see a hanger door open...from a Papoose lake entrance direction .

IT could have been quite possible that the Bus could have been sort of specially radioactive protected..if they new that area was of such concern... and they could have had a way of decontaminating it in a special area maybe..or it drive into a Hanger area... so maybe know one had to actually walk in from the bus direct if the area was a threat...

and also maybe they saw using such an area .. as a sort of deterent that would prevent most people considering wanting to risk going into such an area..

Its hard to say how those who would create such a place would think..

and hard for us to really know the realities of what may have been or was/is possible..



Quote
I can agree with that.

Any radiation exposure created by us is obviously a bad thing.

My point was to expose the ridiculous nature of alienscientist's debunkery claims and fear mongering that anyone venturing into the S4 area would be shredded like a dandelion from the supposed high amount of radiation there.

Workers there spend about 2 minutes tops per day going from the shielded bus to the shielded confines of the facility. They also wear dosimeter badges that allow them to be aware of what levels of radiation they are being exposed to during those 2 minutes.

You have to wonder where these guys caught the Stanton Friedman disease of having this fixation of trying to debunk Bob Lazar
.
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on May 06, 2018, 10:27:37 pm
Meanwhile... in Australia...

Nice of you Brits do do your testing in someone else's back yard :P

Lingering impact of British nuclear tests in the Australian outback

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/media/images/79994000/jpg/_79994605_l1003432(1).jpg)
A concrete marker stands on the exact spot where the atomic bombs were dropped

Quote
It seems remarkable today but less than 60 years ago, Britain was exploding nuclear bombs in the middle of Australia.

In the mid-1950s, seven bombs were tested at Maralinga in the south-west Australian outback.

The combined force of the weapons doubled that of the bomb dropped on the Japanese city of Hiroshima in World War Two.

In archive video footage, British and Australian soldiers can be seen looking on, wearing short sleeves and shorts and doing little to protect themselves other than turning their backs and covering their eyes with their hands.

Some reported the flashes of the blasts being so bright that they could see the bones of their fingers, like x-rays as they pressed against their faces.

(https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/media/images/79994000/jpg/_79994800_3416533.jpg)
A cloud hangs over Australia's Monte Bello Islands after Britain tested its first atomic bomb

Quote
Much has been written about the health problems suffered by the servicemen as a result of radiation poisoning.

Far less well-documented is the plight of the Aboriginal people who were living close to Maralinga at the time.

They didn't want to do it in their own back yard because it wasn't big enough
Robin Matthews, Caretaker, Maralinga Nuclear Site


'It was like a cancer'

"Every night I cry for them," Hilary Williams tells me as she sits around a campfire for an impromptu picnic of kangaroo tails laid on for our visit.

Her mother and grandparents all witnessed at least one of the explosions from just a few kilometres away.

Ms Williams said all three of them died young after suffering lung problems.

"It's so sad. They're not here anymore," she said, adding that she had heart problems she believes were also linked to the bombs.

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/media/images/75640000/jpg/_75640197_muckaty.jpg)
In June, Australia dropped plans for its first nuclear waste dump on Aborigine land

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/media/images/79994000/jpg/_79994599_l1003546.jpg)
Locals like Hilary Williams (left) and Mima Smart shared their fears about the area's dark nuclear history

Quote
Locals around Maralinga spoke about a black mist of radioactive dust over their communities following the explosions.

"A lot of people got sick and died," said Mima Smart, an aboriginal community leader.

"It was like a cancer on them. People were having lung disease, liver problems, and kidney problems. A lot of them died," she said, adding that communities around Maralinga have been paid little by way of compensation.

(https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/media/images/79994000/jpg/_79994593_l1003444.jpg)
Caretaker Robin Matthews stands at the entrance of the Maralinga nuclear site

(https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/media/images/79994000/jpg/_79994808_hi007498293.jpg)
Adelaide, the nearest city to Maralinga, is a 10-hour drive away

Quote
'Not in our backyard'

Maralinga was chosen for its remoteness.

It's a ten hour drive to the nearest big city, Adelaide. But people here say that the Australian government was wrong to let the tests go ahead and that Britain acted irresponsibly.

I don't want to go back; too many bad memories
Mima Smart, Aboriginal community leader
"They didn't want to do it in their own back yard because their back yard wasn't big enough," said Robin Matthews, caretaker of the Maralinga Nuclear Test Site.

"They thought they'd pick a supposedly uninhabited spot out in the Australian desert. Only they got it wrong. There were people here."

During the 1960s and 70s, there were several large clean-up operations to try and decontaminate the site.

All the test buildings and equipment were destroyed and buried. Large areas of the surface around the blast sites was also scraped up and buried.

But Mr Matthews said the clean-up, as well as the tests themselves, were done very much behind closed doors with a high level of secrecy.

"You've got to remember that this was during the height of the Cold War. The British were terrified that Russian spies might try and access the site," he said.

The indigenous communities say many locals involved in the clean-up operation also got sick.

(https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/media/images/79994000/jpg/_79994603_l1003468.jpg)
Soil at the nuclear site grow so hot from the blast that it melted and turned to silicon

Quote
'Sick land'

Maralinga has long been declared safe. There are even plans to open up the site to tourism.

But it was only a few months ago that the last of the land was finally handed back to the Aboriginal people. Most, though, say they have no desire to return there.

Mima Smart told me she regards Maralinga as sick land.

"I don't want to go back. Too many bad memories."

And even almost 60 years on, the land still hasn't recovered. Huge concrete plinths mark the spots where each of the bombs was detonated.

Around each, the blast area would have stretched for several kilometres.

The orangey red soil of the outback sparkles strangely green.

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/media/images/79994000/jpg/_79994595_l1003478.jpg)
Robin Matthews: "Even the birds and the kangaroos still stay clear of this area"

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/media/images/79994000/jpg/_79994597_l1003525.jpg)
Could Maralinga be one of the darkest chapters in British Australian history?

Quote
If you look closely, you can see the ground is covered with what looks like broken glass, where the soil got so hot it literally melted and turned to silicon.

And even after all this time, the natural vegetation still won't grow back.

"The grass here only ever grows a few inches," said Mr Matthews. "Even the birds and the kangaroos still stay clear of this area."

More than half a century on, most people here still regard Maralinga as a dark chapter in British Australian history

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-30640338
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on May 06, 2018, 10:53:46 pm
(http://richarddolanmembers.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/RDM-Banner-copy.jpg)

Breaking News on AATIP: Paul Dean Strikes Again!

Quote

By Richard Dolan | April 29, 2018 4 Comments
I just received a message from friend and fellow researcher Paul Dean from Australia. If you don’t know, Paul is one of the world’s best UFO document researchers, as expert in filing FOIA requests as anyone out there. Moreover, he is a virtual encyclopedia when it comes to the arcane world of military acronyms, nomenclature, and especially the labyrinthian maze of the U.S. national security bureaucracy. This is important if you want to file a FOIA request to the right agency, using the right language, and with an expectation that you will get a response.

Paul and I communicate fairly regularly. Today he told me that the famous UFO program of the Pentagon, recently written about in the New York Times and elsewhere, actually has gone under a different name. Publically, we have been told that the name of the program was the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (AATIP). In reality, Paul has learned from an impeccable source that the original contractual name for it was the Advanced Aerospace Weapons Systems Application Program (AAWSAP).

This is very important. Reason: you may have heard that all FOIA requests relating to AATIP have come up empty. The total number of requests by now might well be in the hundreds, but it’s certainly quite a lot. People have been wondering, why can’t this program be found via FOIA requests when the ultra-establishment New York Times itself outed it? The word is that there definitely was such a program — actually multiple programs. So why was AATIP invisible?

This may well be the answer. It’s under a different name.

Getting FOIA documentation on AAWSAP is critical to learning more about the details of the program, since no one seems to be talking. Not Elizondo, not Tom DeLonge, not Robert Bigelow, not Harry Reid, not anyone. There are many unanswered questions about this program and it’s becoming frustrating for UFO researchers to feel like they are flailing in the wind with no new tangible information.

Paul has filed some fresh FOIA requests to agencies that he believes are appropriate and good bets to get some answers. You can find his blog here.

By the way, I chatted with Paul about the significance of the name. “Advanced Aerospace Weapons Systems Application Program.” This might seem to indicate that the objects caught on video were not actual UFOs, but weapons systems developed by the U.S. military. Paul doesn’t seem to think so, and I myself would have my doubts as well. The few qualified individuals I have spoken to about the released videos (and the longer versions which have not been shown to the public) have deemed the objects to be unexplainable as far as they can see.

So we are still dealing with a great mystery. Not only the objects themselves and who is responsible for them, but penetrating the layers of secrecy and bureaucracy that surround the information we are seeking.

http://richarddolanmembers.com/ufos/breaking-news-on-aatip-paul-dean-strikes-again/
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: A51Watcher on May 06, 2018, 11:26:52 pm
Quote from: A51Watcher on Today at 12:57:20 PM
Quote
Bob still has a few aces up his sleeve which he will play as time goes by.


Well he better hurry I ain't no spring chicken  and John took a turn for the worse  so what he waiting for?  I just hope he doesn't get sucked up by this Immaculate Deception

What he's waiting for is by necessity a time based release being used as an insurance policy. 

He publicly made it known back in the day what evidence he has to show if anything happens to him. These days when asked about it he always says 'no comment'.

He also has various verification that is unknown or has been erased. Things like that.

Also when his insurance policy card is no longer needed, I am sure we will see a release of the evidence he used for that purpose of keeping them at bay.

George is also a first hand witness to Bob being in possession of that evidence.

I hope hope he doesn't get sucked up by this Immaculate Deception as well.


Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on May 07, 2018, 12:10:32 pm
I hope hope he doesn't get sucked up by this Immaculate Deception as well.

Interesting choice of name  :P   

But I fear it is already to late  because when I was at John's birthday party in Dec   and the Corbell puppy came in with George... it was Corbell that got on John's Skype and connected with Bob for his surprise call in

Oh well... as I really have no dog in that race, there is little I can do about it...  I have no clout and no money. I tried to look out for John's interests as he speicifically asked for any help I could give...  but what can I do? These players have already got their game plan...

So all I can do is report what I see and wait for the shoe to drop where it will.

Personally I am getting fed up with UFOlogy... Just recently on Facebook  Bruce Swartz is now attacking John Lenard Walson  making accusations.  Bruce has been showing extremely over pixelated images of the moon showing cities... John seems to think they are good   and yet John is also good friends with JLW (who gave John a free expensive telescope that my daughter filmed usage instructions for)   Bruce also attacked Secure team 10 (yeah okay that guy is a hoaxer :P )  but he has all these groupies following him now.

The whole field has become stupid...  I thought we were over the heavy pixelated photose decades ago with Clementine

Sigh.....   all I can do now is focus on my website  and try to raise a few dollars to pay the bills  At least the Pegasus main site is still getting 4 million plus views... though I am not sure they are real people   LOL

 ::)

Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on May 13, 2018, 09:36:01 pm
Update:

George Knapp
Posted at Facebook  May 9 at 11:14am ·


WERE HUMANS USED AS GUINEA PIGS AT SKINWALKER RANCH AS PART OF THE SECRET PENTAGON UFO PROGRAM?
RED PILL JUNKIETUESDAY, MAY 8TH


Be sure follow The Daily Grail on Facebook and on Twitter for more stories like this.

Back in 2013 the famous comedian, UFC commentator and podcaster Joe Rogan had a TV series on the SyFy channel named Joe Rogan Questions Everything, whose focus was to investigate in a lighthearted way some unsolved mystery or paranormal topic every week. Sadly, the show lasted only 6 weeks, and I always suspected part of the reason why it was so short-lived was because when they ran their alien episode (“Real Close Encounters”) Joe decided to go mano-a-mano with the mother of all ufological high-strangeness stories: The infamous Skinwalker Ranch.

…That’s like deciding all of a sudden that you want to get your pudgy ass fit and work out with some of those bitching kettlebells Joe’s company sells, but instead of learning the moves with the beginner’s 18-lb howler monkey model, you go for the 90-lb Sasquatch kettlebell instead!

“Bro, I can take it! I read “The Day After Roswell”“!

Me: *nods and dials the paramedics*

Believe me: I’ve been studying UFOs all my life, and something like Skinwalker still gives me serious ‘brain sprain’. Ever since I read the book Hunt for the Skinwalker, co-written by Colm A. Kelleher and George Knapp, many of the assumptions I once had about what the phenomenon may or may not be had to be put into serious question. Right now there’s an interesting cultural shift in the perception of UFOs due to the dissemination of (apparent) ‘officially sanctioned’ information by Tom Delonge and his TTS/AAS initiative; but even those in the general public, mainstream media or academia who have been encouraged to reconsider their initial disdain for the topic due to those favorable articles in the New York Times and the Washington Post, would still face great difficulty in accepting at face value even a small percentage of what has allegedly transpired in that former cattle ranch located at the Uintah Basin, in the state of Utah.

The problem is that, if the ‘limited handouts’ released by TTS/AAS continue, sooner or later all those new UFO enthusiasts will need to break sweat and get up to speed ASAP with what we ‘veterans’ have been trying to wrap our heads around, ever since we graduated from the ‘lightweight’ routine exercises of foo fighters or close encounters of the 1st /2nd kind, and now break our mental muscles with the ‘Iron Man’ challenge that is Skinwalker and other equally baffling tales of high strangeness, in which those comfy and neatly defined categories separating ufology, cryptozoology and parapsychology are blurred beyond all recognition.

So start stretching, boys and girls, because you’re about to feel the burn.

(https://i2.wp.com/www.dailygrail.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/skinwalker-ranch-1.jpg?w=728&ssl=1)
Skinwalker ranch (Google Maps)

Be sure follow The Daily Grail on Facebook and on Twitter for more stories like this.

Back in 2013 the famous comedian, UFC commentator and podcaster Joe Rogan had a TV series on the SyFy channel named Joe Rogan Questions Everything, whose focus was to investigate in a lighthearted way some unsolved mystery or paranormal topic every week. Sadly, the show lasted only 6 weeks, and I always suspected part of the reason why it was so short-lived was because when they ran their alien episode (“Real Close Encounters”) Joe decided to go mano-a-mano with the mother of all ufological high-strangeness stories: The infamous Skinwalker Ranch.

…That’s like deciding all of a sudden that you want to get your pudgy ass fit and work out with some of those bitching kettlebells Joe’s company sells, but instead of learning the moves with the beginner’s 18-lb howler monkey model, you go for the 90-lb Sasquatch kettlebell instead!

“Bro, I can take it! I read “The Day After Roswell”“!

Me: *nods and dials the paramedics*

Believe me: I’ve been studying UFOs all my life, and something like Skinwalker still gives me serious ‘brain sprain’. Ever since I read the book Hunt for the Skinwalker, co-written by Colm A. Kelleher and George Knapp, many of the assumptions I once had about what the phenomenon may or may not be had to be put into serious question. Right now there’s an interesting cultural shift in the perception of UFOs due to the dissemination of (apparent) ‘officially sanctioned’ information by Tom Delonge and his TTS/AAS initiative; but even those in the general public, mainstream media or academia who have been encouraged to reconsider their initial disdain for the topic due to those favorable articles in the New York Times and the Washington Post, would still face great difficulty in accepting at face value even a small percentage of what has allegedly transpired in that former cattle ranch located at the Uintah Basin, in the state of Utah.

The problem is that, if the ‘limited handouts’ released by TTS/AAS continue, sooner or later all those new UFO enthusiasts will need to break sweat and get up to speed ASAP with what we ‘veterans’ have been trying to wrap our heads around, ever since we graduated from the ‘lightweight’ routine exercises of foo fighters or close encounters of the 1st /2nd kind, and now break our mental muscles with the ‘Iron Man’ challenge that is Skinwalker and other equally baffling tales of high strangeness, in which those comfy and neatly defined categories separating ufology, cryptozoology and parapsychology are blurred beyond all recognition.

So start stretching, boys and girls, because you’re about to feel the burn.

(https://i2.wp.com/www.dailygrail.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/skinwalker-ranch-1.jpg?w=728&ssl=1)
Skinwalker ranch (Google Maps)

The Background

Trying to summarize the whole Skinwalker saga into a short paragraph is a fool’s errand, but for the benefit of those 18-lb N00bs I’ll do what I can: The region in which the ranch was built has been considered to be the locus of strange activity for perhaps hundreds of years. The Ute tribes refrained from going near the area because they believed it had been cursed by the Navajo when the Ute allied with the US military against them; since then, they say, that land became the hunting ground of a ‘Skinwalker’ – an evil sorcerer with the power to shape-shift.

Eventually white settlers claimed the land and the high strangeness was allegedly reported by neighbors to the ranch; but it wasn’t until 1994, when the Sherman family bought the property with the intention to breed high-priced cattle, that the modern mythology of Skinwalker really begins. Knapp and Kelleher’s book gives a detailed account of the harrowing experiences Terry Sherman and his family suffered; ranging from poltergeist activity, UFO sightings, encounters with giant hairy humanoids, cattle mutilation and teleportation(!) and the alleged disintegration of the three family dogs by some form of mysterious energy – Sherman only found “three lumps of burnt tar, flesh and hair.”

Oh yeah, and let’s not forget the giant bullet-proof wolf! Something that became the butt of almost every one of  Rogan’s jokes when he sarcastically reminisced on his SyFy series, and which was also prominently featured in the 2013 film Skinwalker Ranch, which sadly felt short in its attempt to adapt the story’s high strangeness for the big screen; something that pains me to state since my buddy Steve Berg not only stars in that movie, but was also involved in the production and writing of the script, and I know for a fact he’s a true student of the paranormal – like I said, ‘brain sprains’. You never get rid of them…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-dgQwP-miQ

By 1996 the Shermans had had it with the Trickster energy plaguing them, and were on the verge of collapse – emotionally, psychologically and financially. They were seeking to get rid of the property and find another place in which to have a modicum of a ‘normal’ life. By that time their story had already garnered a bit of notoriety in the local press, which was more than enough for Las Vegas billionaire – and paranormal enthusiast – Robert Bigelow, to take an immediate interest: He called Terry Sherman and made him an offer on the ranch he couldn’t refuse, but asked him to remain on the property as guardian while he sent a team of scientists from his recently-founded National Institute of Discovery Science (NIDS) to try and investigate the phenomena present in the Utah property.

Hunt for the Skinwalker (book cover)
Hunt for the Skinwalker (book cover)

What transpired in the ranch while the NIDS team stayed there has never been officially released, and we only have the written testimony of the Kelleher/Knapp book, along with the vague declarations of some of the external consultants Bigelow hired under strict non-disclosure agreements – such as Col. John B. Alexander and even Dr. Jacques Vallee. In 2004 Bigelow disbanded NIDS, and one of the reasons for doing so was allegedly because the activity at the ranch had ‘receded’ – something George Knapp also maintained. It seemed as if Bigelow had lost interest in chasing after UFOs on his Utah ranch and decided to focus all his energy on Bigelow Aerospace, the company he created in order to license a NASA patent for inflatable orbital habitats, which he intends to develop as private space hotels.

(https://i2.wp.com/www.dailygrail.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/278462.jpg?w=257&ssl=1)
Hunt for the Skinwalker: Science Confronts the Unexplained at a Remote Ranch in Utah (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1416505210/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1416505210&linkCode=as2&tag=pegasreseacon-20&linkId=f99664f3018be36ae117385a257aac73)

(https://i2.wp.com/www.dailygrail.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/bigelow-spacestation-879x485.jpg?resize=879%2C485&ssl=1)
Bigelow Aerospace’s render of their projected inflatable orbital station


https://www.dailygrail.com/…/were-human-guinea-pigs-at-ski…/
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on May 13, 2018, 09:37:42 pm
The Program

But now let’s jump ahead 14 years and take a look what has transpired so far: We learn thanks to the TTS/AAS release of 2017 that a black Pentagon project was started at the behest of at-the-time Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (NV-Dem) back in 2007, in order to study unidentified aerial phenomena (UAP) and the potential threat they pose to national security, and that Robert Bigelow – a friend of Reid – won the bid for the contract, and used the money granted by the DIA to build a large building at his Bigelow Aerospace plant in Las Vegas, Nevada, for reasons directly related to the study.

To work on the DIA contract Bigelow replaced his defunct NIDS with a new scientific initiative called Bigelow Aerospace Advanced Space Studies (BAASS), which seems to have been the prime beneficiary of Bigelow Aerospace’s facility expansion. And by 2010, researchers noticed that on the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), website pilots were encouraged to report their UFO sighting to… BAASS!

Persons wanting to report UFO/unexplained phenomena activity should contact a UFO/unexplained phenomena reporting data collection center, such as Bigelow Aerospace Advanced Space Studies (BAASS) (voice: 1-877-979-7444 or e-mail: Reporting@baass.org)

Not only that, but it’s clear Bigelow was eager to get their hands on fresh UFO reports through any available channel: In 2008 (one year after the Pentagon AATIP program started) Bigelow had made an agreement with MUFON to bankroll the civilian organization so they could get ‘boots on the ground’ as soon as they learned of a new case – the so-called STAR Team initiative.

Feuds on how MUFON would spend Bigelow’s monies – which we NOW know came from the Pentagon program – abounded. By 2009 MUFON’s international director James Carrion resigns out of frustration of how Bigelow was taking hold of the organization. How much did he take hold of MUFON throughout the years? By 2012 it is revealed by researcher Jack Brewer of The UFO Trail that John Carpenter, who was the director of abduction research for MUFON at the time, had handed over information of abductees – people who claim to have been taken once or on numerous occasions by alien beings for alleged experimentation purposes – to NIDS in the mid-1990s in exchange for money. Why this matters is because the names and particulars of those individuals were shared by them with MUFON in full confidentiality, so at the very least it is an ugly breach in ethics.

Let us now jump to a statement published last Sunday at the Las Vegas Now news Channel 8 website – where  George Knapp is part of its team of reporters – which was one of a number of documents Knapp procured from BAASS to prove there was indeed a Pentagon-backed UFO study based in Nevada.

The title of the document – which is tellingly short –  is unsigned and reads Statement from a Senior Manager of BAASS. It claims that during the time of the Pentagon program BAASS hired, trained and deployed “50 full-time staff comprising retired military intelligence [emphasis mine] and law enforcement officers, PhD level scientists, engineers, technicians, analysts, translators, and project managers to create the largest multi-disciplinary full-time team in history to investigate the UFO topic.”

The document also boldly states that BAASS’s investigation ultimately proved the phenomenon was more than simply “nuts and bolts” machines that interacted with military aircraft, something authors and researchers like Nick Redfern, Greg Bishop and many others have been championing for years, much to the chagrin of those who are still waiting to ‘kick the tires’ of flying saucers, and learn all about their propulsion systems. The anonymous author acknowledges how the phenomenon manifests in a wide variety of ways, including “bizarre creatures, poltergeist activity, invisible entities, orbs of light, animal and human injuries and much more.”

But the biggest bombshell comes in the final few paragraphs:

One of the major successes of BAASS was in adopting the novel approach of utilizing the human body as a readout system for dissecting interactions with the UFO phenomenon. This novel approach aimed to circumvent the increasing evidence of deception and subterfuge by the UFO phenomenon in that multiple eyewitnesses co-located in the same vicinity frequently reported seeing widely different events. The evidence was multiplying that the UFO phenomenon was capable of manipulating and distorting human perception and therefore eyewitness testimony of UFO activity was becoming increasingly untrustworthy.

The BAASS approach was to view the human body as a readout system for UFO effects by utilizing forensic technology, the tools of immunology, cell biology, genomics and neuroanatomy for in depth study of the effects of UFOs on humans. This approach marked a dramatic shift away from the traditional norms of relying on eyewitness testimony as the central evidentiary arm in UFO investigations. The approach aimed to bypass UFO deception and manipulation of human perception by utilizing molecular forensics to decipher the biological consequences of the phenomenon.

The result of applying this new approach was a revolution in delineating the threat level of UFOs.

Contrary to the statement’s claims, using human beings as a ‘readout system’ is actually nothing new. Such an approach has been utilized in the field of parapsychology for many years. In this 2011 interview for Radio Misterioso for example, Dr. Barry Taff – a parapsychologist best known for his involvement with the famous ‘Entity’ case of 1974, which was the basis of a Hollywood horror movie – explained to the host Greg Bishop how his research had convinced him that during paranormal phenomena the human body acts as a kind of ‘bio-reactor’ which somehow seems to help the activity to manifest into our plane of reality, which would explain how paranormal activity tends to be more localized on certain people. He has also found certain correlations between geo-magnetic anomalies and epilepsy-prone individuals.

Diana Walsh Pasulka is a professor and Chair of the Department of Philosophy and Religion in the University of North Carolina Wilmington, and the author of the upcoming book American Cosmic, which deals with novel approaches to the UFO topic as well as validating the deep interest wealthy individuals in the private sector have in the subject, and how these entrepreneurs are trying to find ways to study and capitalize on the phenomenon, just as Robert Bigelow has tried to do. On her Facebook page she acknowledged that BAASS’s method of making the human being the locus or site for the study of the effects, ‘concurred’ with what the scientists she interviewed for her book told her.

Parapsychologists have been documenting positive results of their experiments for years. The problem is they are yet to propose a model for these results that would convince experts from other fields, because such models would demand a departure from the current materialist paradigm our modern science is based on. But as history has taught us again and again, observation always precedes theoretical prediction, and the current state of psi research is akin to the state of research of electromagnetism in the 19th century, before a viable mathematical model was formalized. Such is the argument raised in this paper – published at the CIA website no less! – written by Harold Puthoff and Russell Targ, who lead the Stanford Research Institute back when the US government was running its famous Stargate ‘psychic’ project.

(Hal Puthoff, it bears mentioning, is vice president of the TTS/AAS Science and Technology division)

So it does seem BAASS is indeed following a much needed non-orthodox approach to the study of UFOs that is borrowed from the parapsychology handbook, which places the human being as a primary focus of the effects caused by UFO/paranormal activity: not only that, but it also boldly concludes that whatever it is we’re dealing with, it’s not just metal spacecraft from some other planet following a bizarre version of Star Trek’s prime directive. Great!

…Only there’s just two little pesky details that remain a mystery: WHO are the individuals used by BAASS as a ‘readout system’ during their research, and WHERE were those experiments conducted?

(https://i2.wp.com/www.dailygrail.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/skinwalker.jpg?w=1500&ssl=1)
Old entrance to Skinwalker ranch
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on May 13, 2018, 09:39:45 pm
The Whistleblower

When I first learned about the AATIP/AASWA Pentagon program and slowly began to try and connect the dots, I initially thought that the New York Times‘ reference to “[r]esearchers [who] also studied people who said they had experienced physical effects from encounters with the objects and examined them for any physiological changes” meant that Bigelow’s team were studying military pilots who got in close proximity with UFOs – or even commercial pilots too, given the FAA’s referral to Bigelow’s number on their website!

Then I remembered the ‘Carpenter affair’ discussed earlier, and wondered if perhaps BAASS had also tried to investigate the abductees in MUFON’s database.



But after reading the statement from their anonymous ‘former senior member’, I was reminded of this 2012 episode of The Paracast, in which Gene Steinberg and his co-host Chris O’Brien – who has been involved in the Skinwalker investigation since before it went public – organized a round table with two other Skinwalker researchers: my friend David Weatherly and Ryan Skinner (Skinner, by the way, was one of the investigators featured in that disastrous Joe Rogan Questions Everything episode on alien encounters… although funnily enough his name does not appear on the IMDB credits).

The round table of investigators and Gene were joined in the first half of the show by ‘Chip’ (a pseudonym), who claimed to have worked sporadically at the Utah ranch from 2009 to 2010 as a security guard – 8 weeks on and off in total, in periods of two weeks at a time. If true, this would make it the first and only time in history when someone who was actually a staff member of BAASS has gone on the record!

What is interesting is that, now that 6 years have passed since that interview, we see that the information now coming out validates most of what Chip disclosed back then:

How their HQ was in Las Vegas, and at first they were flown from there to Utah, but eventually they had to rely on long drives to the ranch because all the contracted security personnel (who ALL had military clearance) were required to carry sidearms – something which didn’t make much sense to ‘Chip’ since his supposed job was to protect the property from trespassers, who largely consisted of UFO enthusiasts and local kids in search of a thrill and a place to drink… unless the weapons were intended to protect the lives of the guards from other threats.
Another reason why Chip didn’t think the owners weren’t obsessed with security was the fact that, according to him, by the time he worked on the ranch NONE of the cameras in the property were working. They were there just for show; perhaps BAASS had learned from the previous mistakes of NIDS in the futility of attempting surveillance on a phenomenon that doesn’t like to be spied on…
The time in which Bigelow’s organization had a massive hiring of staff (2009) with 50 to 60 people at their building in Las Vegas at their peak, followed by the layoffs of everyone involved by 2010, when they were told “they had lost their contract” – and according to ‘Chip’ the ones signing the paychecks were the NSA, something that was truly revelatory in 2012, but not anymore now that we have confirmation of the ties between BAASS and the DIA.
How he heard second-hand that at one point a few high-ranking military officers visited the ranch, and that they experienced something so disturbing – he never learned what – they ‘freaked out’ and demanded to be escorted out of the property immediately.
But the most important thing Chip disclosed – and the main purpose of this essay – is the complete lack of insight given by his former employer with regards to the background of the location he was supposedly protecting! “You are doing security” is all he and his companions were told, and they were ordered to patrol the perimeter 24/7 accompanied by dogs, which were not even true police K-9 units according to Chip, but just regular household pets. This would make one suspect the dogs were not used as an actual guarding tool, but as ‘bio-sensors’ intended to pick up anomalies earlier than their human counterparts thanks to their heightened senses. One thing his employers did tell Chip was that in the event of ‘seeing’ or ‘sensing’ anything strange, he was to “scan the area and take pictures.”
Chip did face a few anomalous things during his stay at the ranch: An unplugged stereo turning on by itself; feeling nauseous all of a sudden during one of his patrols, with the discomfort disappearing just as quickly as it began; he did not feel the ‘artificial fear’ reported in many paranormal accounts – which some investigators explain as a possible physiological response to infrasound frequencies – but at one point he did experience the hairs on the back of his neck raising for no apparent reason, during which his companion dog would ‘roll on its back’ in a submissive manner. Some of the photos he took also showed what seemed to be ‘glowing orbs’.
And the last important detail shared by Chip in that 2012 interview, was the fact that whenever the personnel saw or felt something strange, they were required to have urine tests and bring the vials back to Vegas by the end of their shift (!). Chip also mentioned ‘brain scans’ performed on the individuals, although they were never informed of the results of such tests.
This last part of his job convinced Chip that he was there at the Skinwalker ranch more as a ‘guinea pig’ than as a security guard. “They were testing us,” he said to Gene, Chris, David and Ryan on that Paracast episode. He thought that perhaps the military was trying out something new at the remote rural location, and he and his colleagues were used as lab rats without their consent. Indeed, it wouldn’t be the first time such unethical experiments have been carried out.

But in light of the new BAASS revelations, perhaps the real reason behind the secrecy and the monitoring of the effects of the personnel’s stay at the ranch was because instead of being exposed to an illegal experimental weapon, Chip and the others were used as a ‘readout system’ for the paranormal activity located inside the Utah property, and thus were told as little as possible in order not to create biased expectations on these men and on how they would react to whatever they might encounter. That would also explain the need keeping the security staff in constant rotation, and performing short-duration tours of just two weeks at a time.

If I’m right – and I will always be the first to admit I’m speculating, apart from the fact all of this comes from an anonymous source – then in the future we might see even more BAASS/AATIP endorsed revelations in the  mainstream media, and more people in high-ranking positions acknowledging the importance of taking UFOs seriously. But, we will probably also continue to have very little in terms of the BIG revelations obtained by Bigelow’s research team – so we who are well past being bedazzled by grainy gun camera videos would do well to keep prying deeper and demanding the real ‘juicy’ stuff to be addressed.

Yes we know UFOs exist and fighter pilots encounter them, dammit! But what about what was uncovered at Skinwalker ranch?? If American taxpayer’s dollars were indeed used for conducting research in the Utah property —which was sold by Bigelow’s company in April of 2016— then the American people have a right to find out more, or at very least to receive an official response from the DIA.

Conclusion

So here it is: My best effort to connect the dots and lift this exhausting, 90-lb kettlebell of a case, which sometimes has the face of a red-eyed Sasquatch, other times the face of a cigarette-smoking dogman, but most of the time it probably has a shape incomprehensible to the human mind…

If you managed to follow me this far and your brain hasn’t totally exploded yet, then congrats and fret not, because sooner or later it will. And when it does, you’ll be one step closer to that ghastly realization that steals the sleep of many in this field: that perhaps the reason why the true reality of the UFO phenomenon hasn’t been disclosed – and perhaps it never will – is not because unethical deeds have been performed in an attempt to grasp it by those in the shadows, or even the possibility that sometimes the phenomenon is actively hostile to humans; but because bringing to light what the phenomenon might be, and what it truly might represent could seriously threaten to obliterate EVERYTHING we take for granted, including the nature of Reality itself. That my friends, is far scarier than any  jumbo-sized wolf, bullet-proof or not.

Feeling sore yet, bro?

(https://i1.wp.com/www.dailygrail.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/1.jpg?w=750&ssl=1)

https://www.dailygrail.com/2018/05/were-human-guinea-pigs-at-skinwalker-ranch-part-of-the-secret-pentagon-ufo-program/
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: Irene on May 15, 2018, 07:51:06 am
Your post just corroborated one of my contact problems. I will often become nauseated for no apparent reason.

Last year I was worked up, down, and sideways to find the source of the nausea. Nothing. Everything was ruled out by X-rays, MRIs, CTs, bloodwork, and examination of my entire digestive tract.

My personal feeling is the nausea is a sign I am near an entity or some kind of anomaly.

As I've said before, I believe we are surrounded by these things, but cannot see them.
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on May 15, 2018, 03:05:05 pm
As I've said before, I believe we are surrounded by these things, but cannot see them.

There was am episode of Stargate SG1 where an Alien energy was accidentally release on Earth that allowed people to see these creatures that exist just out of phase with our own dimension.  They are mostly harmless as they cannot interact with us normally.

I am of the opinion that certain portals allow interaction...   I am of the opinion that Bigfoot and Loch Ness critter are examples of a portal opening briefly... long enough for the two dimensions to overlap, but the creatures are actually in their own space/time  and we just see them.  That also explains Bigfoot foot prints that start nowhere and suddenly end  and the lack of physical evidence.

Harry Reid is involved with this group... he has CLEARLY stated that he won't discuss little green men or Roswell flying saucers... because he is convinced we are dealing with Demons

The closing statement about is confirming what I and John have always said  "There will be no disclosure because people can't handle the truth"  :P

I don't (and didn't) expect anything solid to come of this Skin Walker story because months ago when George first mentioned it on Facebook he said that they never solved the case...  So all they have is the story to sell... with nothing but a vague conclusion that we won't get anything solid

The Tibetan Lamas warn that there exist between this plane of exsistence and the Astral World  beings they casll Imps...  they are not spirits, they are not ghosts, nor are they your ancestors. They are not truly Demons in the Biblical sense but in the end what does it matter?  They are mischievious imps so demons fits as well as anything. When you use a Ouija Board you summon them in... they pretend to be spirits or whatever else you want them to be... Once invited in they are difficult to get rid of.  The Tibetans teach you protection bannishments... so do the Roscicrucians

Many dabble in the 'black arts' not knowing what they are doing... and can get attachments from these nether world creatures.

It is my opinion that these UFO/Alien 'experiencers' are doing exactly that... channeling these imps that will pretend to be Pleiadians or Galactic Federation of Light Envoys or what ever you want to believe. Once contact has been made, your stuck with them  No you don't need an Exorcist :P though I can bet that this demons and exorcist stuff is simply the way they dealt with these imps in the past  and attached it to their religion.

Muslims have the same deal going with the DJinn  a mischievous race that was banished to another dimension.

When you ask experiencers for proof  they get angry... and they tell you you have to meditate and open your mind to let these entities (aliens) in.  And THAT is my problem....  NO I have spent my life building a shield to these creatures... not about to let them in now...  and how do these experiencers know who or what they are actually making contact with?

Remember Blossum Goodschild a few years back?  She channeled Ashtar Commander of the GFL... He promised her they were landing on a date and she should tell the world. She did... and as expected, the date came and went and no show... she was devastated and destroyed her reputation... Ashtar commander said people weren't ready yet...   left her hung out to dry as it were...  Might have been Loki the Trickster for all we know

 I look around at the world today  and I see the mindless stupidity growing exponentially... and I have to ask myself if these channeled and experienced 'alien' are behind it all?

Demons? Trolls? Grays?  Does it matter the name?  Grays sure look like the Trolls and Demons of Medieval Tymes

Angels? Nordics? Elves?  What is in a name ?  We name things based  on our current understanding

Flying Chariots? Flying Shields? Flying Saucers?   Again  it's just a name based on items familiar to us

The interdimensioal portal theory makes the most sense with the observed facts...  to me anyway.

Irene  as for your personal case... have you ever tried any banishment routines? The Tibetans and Rosicrucian state clearly that these imps cannot pester you if you tell them to buzz off and begone...

Years ago my ex wife's friends had ghosts in their apt.  My wife took me up there to show me...  Well since my aura has that banishment already built in... the ghosts vanished before I even entered the room... and never returned  ( a fact that pissed off the couple who had them (They later wound up burning down the apt with a dragon scale ritual)







Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on May 15, 2018, 03:07:58 pm
A religious view (Catholic)  but seems to be right on the mark, as he used Ouija Boards

IMPS, DEVILS, LITTLE CREATURES OF THE DARK.

Quote
Imps, Devils, Demons Infestation of the Home.

Back in the mid 1970’s while growing up in Hoffman Estates, IL I lived in a house that was haunted by Ghosts and shadow people. Besides the standard normal hauntings, there was a period of time that I was also terrorized and attacked by little demons. They would peer out of the walls, walk out of, into, or fly out of (as a black mass) closets and dark corners of the house.

Where they came from or why, I still to this day have no idea. Years of Ouija board use? …maybe.

I became so terrified as a child that I slept with the lights on, slept with my back to the wall each night, and had by me a glow in the dark plastic toy sword my mom got me to help me feel safe at night. I even ended up placing a last rites cross, with candles and Holy Water beside my bed each night. Not sure why I used a last rites cross, probably not the best idea. As a child I had no idea what it was really used for and always felt having the cross on display would be like having Jesus besides me while I slept.

http://christopherfleming.com/imps-devils-little-creatures-of-the-dark/
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on May 15, 2018, 03:13:54 pm
Quote
The ordinary average person who is not too good and not too bad stays in the astral world for a varying period of time. It is not true that everyone stays there for six hundred, or a thousand, or two thousand years; it depends entirely on the conditions, which prevail in the case of each and every individual. There is an average time, but then there is an average man-in-the-street and an average woman in-the-street, and the average time is just - well, just a figure. (the pleiadian contactteam from Erra said that the average time between two incarnations for people on earth was at present ca. 170 y) There are many tasks to do in the astral world. Some people help those who are coming to join the astral world, some people act as guides to them, and this 'guide' 'has nothing to do with spiritualist seances or old ladies who think they have a Red Indian guide or a Chinese Mandarin guide or a Tibetan Lama guide. What these old ladies usually have is an overdose of imagination. Actually, if everything was counted up and if everyone who claimed to have an Indian guide or a Tibetan guide was listed, there just wouldn't be enough Indians or enough Tibetans to go round, and in any case these people on the, Other Side have their own jobs to do, and those jobs do not include stirring teacups so some old biddy can give a reading, it doesn't include speaking through a tin trumpet or moving a bit of cheesecloth. All that stuff, which of course is utterly useless, comes from a bit of nervous energy on the part of some usually hysterical operator. People on the Other Side have too much to do looking after their own affairs to come to Earth and poke about in dark rooms breathing down the necks of people who are there for a delicious thrill. The only ones who do go to these seances from the Other Side are the Nature Spirits of a lower type called Elementals. They are there just for some fun, to see what a lot of saps these humans are to believe anything and everything that is told to them. Don't you, my dear friends Reader, go in for this guff, because guff it is.

The same goes for this Ouija Board stuff. People will get a Ouija Board and play about with it, and some Elemental who is always dashing about like a mischievous monkey, will see what is being done, and he will definitely influence the reading. Now you might think there is no harm in that, but there is no good in it either, and definitely there is great harm in these Ouija Board readings if an Elemental causes the message to be given to sound highly plausible but which is just something extracted from the victim's own sub-conscious. A person's whole life can be affected for the worse by believing in this Ouija Board messages.

Another great source of misinformation is when the Ouija-Board is moved in accordance with the collective thought of the people who are gathered around. Often it will be impelled by wishful thinking and, again, will give a message which can be positively harmful by being misleading. The safest thing is - have nothing whatever to do with Ouija Boards and nothing whatever to do with seances. Remember, you came to this Earth deliberately not knowing the exact purpose of your visit, and if you try to find out too much without very, very exceptional cause, then you are like the student going to the examination room who manages to steal a copy of the examination papers first. That is just plain cheating, and it doesn't help at all.

T.LOBSANG RAMPA's 11. book:
"Feeding the Flame " part II
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on May 21, 2018, 05:16:43 am
Interesting Post from ATS

elevenaugust
posted on May, 21 2018 @ 04:07 AM link 

The Nimitz story in the former OMF forum

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread1207350/pg1

With some of you, I was other there back in 2007, working mainly for my part on the California drones saga.

This "Tic-Tac Nimitz" story vaguely reminded me something that I read at that time on OMF, at the end of 2007 if I recall correctly. Unfortunately, as OMF went down years ago and as it seems that most of the pages are gone, even on the Wayback Machine, I couldn't either confirm or not my impression of déjà-vu.

Anyway, after some extensive research in OMF archives, with the help of Isaackoi and the former OMF admin Brendan Burton, I was able to locate four posts that were written on OMF in December 2010 (and not in 2007, my memory somewhat failed about the exact year) by a member under the name of “theseer” with the following thread title: "USS Nimitz intercepts UFO's in SOCAL, Dec. 2006"

One of these four posts has nothing to do with the Nimitz incident (it was about the Oregon drone):

(http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/hw5b0286df.PNG)

Here are the captures of the three other posts, related to the Nimitz incident (right click and open in a new tab):

First post:

(http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/zw5b0286dd.PNG)

Second post:

(http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/mc5b0286df.PNG)

Third post:

(http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/vw5b0286de.PNG)

"Theseer" profile:

(http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/ii5b0286df.PNG)

Personal notes

- As you noted it, the year is "2006" and not "2004", likely changed as part of the fictionalization mentioned by "theseer".

- Mention was made by "theseer" of possible further contact between him and OMF admin by "hidden email". In spite of our search about this email address, we weren't able to obtain it.

- "Theseer" mentioned in its first post an attachment that contains the whole detailed story. Unfortunately, here again we weren't able (and in spite of the help of Brendan Burton and some others) to find this lost attachment.

We, with Isaackoi, would be very curious and happy to take a look at this attachment, that's why we're asking for help from the ATS community; maybe one of you kept track of this attachment in some archived files, who knows?


beetee
posted on May, 21 2018 @ 04:24 AM link
 

This is very interesting.

However, I cannot help noticing that it differs quite a bit from the current 2004 Nimitz tic-tac narrative.

Especially with regards to the number of incidents and the pilot reactions.

I realize you are mostly looking for documents but maybe you have some thoughts about this?

Also, a former german user from ATS might have something if he can be contacted from the 2008 video leak that happened here. He seems to be the one who helped with both redacting and uploading to a German server what eventually was shared with ATS.

You probably know this, of course.

Cheers,
BT
edit on 21-5-2018 by beetee because: Removed username of mentioned user

IsaacKoi
posted on May, 21 2018 @ 04:56 AM link
 
 
Thanks for posting this summary here Elevenaugust. Hopefully someone has archived the attachments to posts on the old OMF forum, or at least the relevant story.

I'll just add, for ease of reference, the text of the posts by "theseer" in a quotable/searchable format.

POST 1:

USS Nimitz intercepts UFO's in SOCAL, Dec. 2006.
Post by theseer on Dec 27, 2010, 4:39pm

The attached short story is a fictional characterization of true events that took place in December, 2006. During training exercises located off the coast of San Diego, the NIMITZ Strike Group, consisting of six U.S. Navy warships and dozens of aircraft, intercepted and were “engaged” by, UFO’s.

I was there. I was the first to notice the strange craft on our SPY-1D radar system. I was the first to confirm the objects “existence” using our CEC system (not an anomaly). I was also the one recommending we intercept the objects to the Air Defense Commander. We did intercept the UFO’s. The UFO’s reacted by engaging our strike fighter aircraft.

My short story details some of those true events in a fictional way in order to protect those who would prefer remain anonymous or are still serving in uniform.

It is also an attempt by me to explain what, to this day, remains unexplained. And stranger still, how one of the most witnessed and highly documented UFO encounters in history still remains largely unknown.

Quite likely, this is the first you've ever heard of it too. The admin can contact me via my hidden email address if desired.

POST 2:

Re: USS Nimitz intercepts UFO's in SOCAL, Dec. 200
Post by theseer on Dec 30, 2010, 12:45am

Thank you for all the comments on my experience. The essence of my "fictional" story is true.

To this day however, I do not have an explanation for what we intercepted. Hence, the reason for my short story.

The objects all came into our radar coverage in the vicinity of Catalina Island. They traveled in sets of 4-7 objects, all tracking south at 28,000 feet, 100 knots. They maintained relative position to each other as they flew south. They disappeared from our radar coverage off the coast of Mexico (at around 28.91N 118.26W).

The USS NIMITZ Strike Group conducting COMPTUEX and preparing for a morning air defense exercise, or ADEX.

After convincing myself the objects were real using our surveillance systems (and asking my buddies offline on the other ships if they were seeing them too), I alerted the Air Defense Commander (captain of the USS Princeton (CG-59), and recommended we intercept the craft.

Why? Safety of flight. Launching an ADEX in the middle of the objects was a bad idea; at least on paper. What followed that moment left me a changed man. I swear to God we intercepted intelligent objects.

The first intercept was conducted by the Commanding Officer of one our strike fighter squadrons (then 28-year Navy Captain, now an Admiral, air hours counted in the thousands); he cried in abject fright over the air intercept control circuit. I'll never forget his words.

"I'm engaged, I'm engaged!! Oh my god.."

The object spun a loop around his aircraft and suddenly descended from 28,000 feet and splashed in the ocean below. The travel time was about .78 seconds.

The captain followed the object down, saw an object just beneath the surface of the water, then climbed altitude to get a better view.

The object suddenly shot straight back up out of the water. Again, in about .78 seconds it climbed to 28,000 feet and continued on it's merry way south, at 100 knots.

All hell then broke lose. I'm not even sure how many intercepts were conducted as the pilots consummated them on their own (without AIC assistance). We had objects yo-yo-ing into the water and back out again all over the sky.

Later that day I discovered all of our external comms had been erased from our optical recording equipment. The time stamps were there, all comms gone. No explanation suffices for this.

The pilots say too they were "debriefed". All of their videos and comms were taken. Nobody was told to remain silent however. Then again, what Naval officer would want to talk about this?

By the way, I once had physical evidence in the form of an .MPG video emailed to me before the [fill in the black] got to him. The video was his HUD display of the intercept. The video switched between TV camera system and IR. The object makes a multi-G maneuver in the video. Reminds one of the old Star Trek intro; that way it zorches away.

Unfortunately, the video was located on a Secret system and I had to leave it there when I left the service.

I do believe both the video and ship system information recorded during the event still exists though.

POST 3:

Re: USS Nimitz intercepts UFO's in SOCAL, Dec. 200
Post by theseer on Dec 30, 2010, 1:15am

If any other OMies were there too, please feel free to chime in!

The TIC-TAC UFO incident was witnessed by hundreds of Navy personnel. Radar and weapons systems operators; trained observers.


gortex
posted on May, 21 2018 @ 05:31 AM link   
a reply to: elevenaugust
a reply to: IsaacKoi


Thanks for the posts guys , this story just became more interesting.
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: bigpappy51 on June 09, 2018, 06:56:26 am
I told you Bob said they were unable to replicate the tech and we would not be able to for a long time.

The ones we have video of are ones we are able to fly not made by us.

The ones with the child size seats.

If that was what the good guys wanted to get out to the public then yeah it worked.
Who flew the child seated Sport Model ? They didnt understand anything about the craft. Bob states for all purposes it was like magic the way it worked ? So how did they fly it ? How did the radio communication Bob stated he saw the scientists at S4 penetrate the Anti-gravity produced by the craft ?? How did they deactivate the E115 after it was placed in the reactor as well ? Remember there were no switches nothing conventional way of turning off the reactor this is per Bobs own statements.
Thanks BP51  8)
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: A51Watcher on June 09, 2018, 08:33:27 am
Who flew the child seated Sport Model ?

US pilots, probably sitting on yellow pages.

 They didnt understand anything about the craft. Bob states for all purposes it was like magic the way it worked ? So how did they fly it ?

(https://ufotoday.com/images/ufotoday/2017-06/04/c3e19a78-f74e-4848-bb7f-59f1bc110a73-lg.jpg?v=0.91)

They understood enough to disassemble one and partially reassemble the parts on a desk in his office. And make them work i.e. the reactor and the gravity amplifiers.


 How did the radio communication Bob stated he saw the scientists at S4 penetrate the Anti-gravity produced by the craft ??

Bob is the one who noticed that and is still puzzled by it. He also reported it to Teller as an unsecured risk since the communication was not encrypted.


How did they deactivate the E115 after it was placed in the reactor as well ? Remember there were no switches nothing conventional way of turning off the reactor this is per Bobs own statements.

Since the reactor does not operate at full power at all times there has to be power control of some sort. I would imagine they turn the power knob (or whatever) down to it's lowest setting to remove the E115. Ask Bob for a more detailed answer. His email address is no secret.


Thanks BP51  8)


Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: astr0144 on June 09, 2018, 10:59:47 am
Can you inform or  remind me the concern or Physics of why Radio Com is an issue with Anti Gravity ?

What does A.G do to radio waves ?  I assume block them somehow ! or interference.

It is radio and not sound wave.. so its still an EMF type wave... but on the larger wave length..not penetrative like smaller wavelengths in the EMF spectrum..

Quote
How did the radio communication Bob stated he saw the scientists at S4 penetrate the Anti-gravity produced by the craft ??

Bob is the one who noticed that and is still puzzled by it. He also reported it to Teller as an unsecured risk since the communication was not encrypted.

I assume that maybe the power source varies depending what they are doing with the Craft..

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/hEc7uK9bVe8/hqdefault.jpg).

if say just doing short distance or close by hover type testing similar to images that I have seen above...where the Craft seemed to just be taking off and moving up and down a few feet...where the pilot is trying to learn to control it...then  maybe it uses lower power to that of longer faster moves..

or does hovering maybe take more power than perhaps I considered..

like does a Harrier jump jet  or helicopter take more power when just taking off the ground  and hovering... or does it use more power when it starts to move higher and faster.. or longer distances..

is using fuel one thing (in lift / aircraft type fuel)... power thrust another ... but in a UFO if it uses Nuke like fuel..in its reactor.. the effects n fuel / power may not really alter that much proportionally..

Is that Bobs email on his website.. ? or which ever. ..will he answer ? unless he knows you..

if so he never answered me when I tried to ask him something some years ago !   :(

I assume he gets loads of UFO related emails thru his website each year asking various questions ! ..

Quote
How did they deactivate the E115 after it was placed in the reactor as well ? Remember there were no switches nothing conventional way of turning off the reactor this is per Bobs own statements.

Since the reactor does not operate at full power at all times there has to be power control of some sort. I would imagine they turn the power knob (or whatever) down to it's lowest setting to remove the E115. Ask Bob for a more detailed answer. His email address is no secret.


Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: A51Watcher on June 09, 2018, 11:23:34 am
Can you inform or  remind me the concern or Physics of why Radio Com is an issue with Anti Gravity ?

What does A.G do to radio waves ?  I assume block them somehow !

It is radio and not sound wave.. so its still an EMF type wave... but on the larger wave length..not penetrative like smaller wavelengths in the EMF spectrum..

To be specific the question relates to how radio waves penetrate an amplified gravity field, not anti gravity. Repulsive out of phase gravity as specified in his gravity field graphics.

I assume that maybe the power source varies depending what they are doing with the Craft...

if say just doing short distance or hover type testing... maybe it uses lower power to that of longer faster moves..

or does hovering maybe take more power than perhaps I considered..

like does a Harrier jump jet  or helicopter take more power when just taking off the ground  and hovering... or does it use more power when it starts to move higher and faster.. or longer distances..

is using fuel one thing ... power thrust another ...

Right. And as seen in my videos and Bobs, the brightness of the craft varies a lot from time to time as well. Power production would appear to be power consumption related.

Is that Bobs email on his website.. ? or which ever. ..will he answer ? unless he knows you..

if so he never answered me when I tried to ask him something some years ago !   :(

I assume he gets loads of UFO related emails thru his website each year asking various questions ! ..

His business website has a working email address. Yes he does get loads of UFO related emails to this very day as he relates in a recent interview.

But as George Knapp relates, he is good friends with Bob and he doesn't even answer him half the time.

Bob does answer some people sometimes, I would imagine it depends on the emails tone and level of interest.





Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: astr0144 on June 09, 2018, 12:32:51 pm
Thanks for the reminder...I think I recall seeing some of that now to some degree..

It would be really good if Bob was willing or able to confirm that such Amplified Gravity Fields (AGF) really are in use...and to try to explain in detail... that maybe we could gain as good as understanding as possible...what ever level we are to each of our abilities to try to understand.

It would have been great if he could have done a video on it at S4 on how AG works to lift a craft or object in a AGF..

Just rethinking the other day on watching a program about the Earth and how it repels Solar winds....about how the earths magnetic field repels...things in space entering our atmosphere.... within Earths atmosphere we have gravity effect...

I still wonder about how the Earths magnetic field V Gravity acts or compares...

I got the impression that th Earths magnetic field is a much stronger force than that of the Earths gravity !

as has been mentioned by Bob about the Gravity A and B   .... Gravity acting down on Earth as we general view it is a relatively weak force..

But I wonder how he would compare that to Earths magnetisms force ?


Do UFOs use the Earths magnetic field in use of A.G ? or do they also have to overcome it ?

I believe its about 62 miles from the Earths surface to get into Space outside our atmosphere.

Quote
How far is space?
There are 62 miles or 100 kilometers from earth to outer space of its boundary. Astronauts are able to say that they have reached space after reaching the 50 mile mark. There are 62 miles or 100 kilometers from earth to outer space of its boundary
.


what a UFO needs to do if using A.G    I wonder how the Amplified Gravity Field compares if a UFO takes off vertically straight up.. like its going thru a Gravity field like tunnel  like 62 mile long tube   ,say around the diameter of the craft...
so the volume of atmosphere is in that tube like space has to be overcome to lift the craft somehow...

or does the Amp Gravity field ocuur surrounding just the area or volume space around the craft that continues to allow the craft to lift as the craft is propelled higher... so its sort of creating the next area say above the craft to get it to lift up to a next level and so on...while the craft is able to not drop back down...to loose altitude

so its consistantly being created around it and above a set volume space above it to keep it moving up..

Like we know... aircrafts airleons.. or wings when they alter their angle  to be able to fly ... it allow it to lift...further up..by lowering the pressure above the top of the wing... it gets further lift with increase of pressure under the wing and  also with more speed..but thats also using variation of reducing the air pressure on the top part of a wing... and maybe it seems to occur in stages thru out its manouver or alteration of the tilt of the wing and alteration of airflow over it.....

ie lift in ref to speed... in ref to altered air pressure acting on the above and lower wing..

Is a controlled use of an amplifier allowing the alteration of gravity as the craft moves and speeds up..in some sort of similar way...but using other principles...inc maybe Earths magetism..and altertaion of gravity effect..

so is Amplified Gravity field working in relation to the Earths Magnetic Field somehow ?

Is it using  metallic materials of the craft in some sort of magnetic repel to the Earths magnetic field also  ?

In ref to Gravity earths force..

I think we would expect the power or forces that could be created from the Element 115 and the reactor /amplifier to be that of a much stronger powerful nuclear type force... that is a force that should easily power the craft to oppose and move againt gravity forces...if its able to be controlled the right way.. but I m nt sure if the Earths Magnetic field could also be a force that it has to deal with or if it can use it in a way to its advantage in some way..

if so ...Id like to see Bob explain that !

but its the weight or mass of the actual Saucer craft that is the forces that has to lift and be opposed using Antigravity..

I wonder what weight the Saucer craft was ?


It Does not really seem to far distance wise.. to  fly or rise  up 62 miles..and Space Rockets penetrate it using Rocket engines and fuel.. so I am sure a type of nuclear power could also be used.


Quote
To be specific the question relates to how radio waves penetrate an amplified gravity field, not anti gravity. Repulsive out of phase gravity as specified in his gravity field graphics.

Yes it would be interesting to try to understand how the E115 reaction to alter  power in relation to the reactor, that alters the power levels of the craft..or variation of how the crafts  functions alter accordingly.

Maybe he has explained this... and I am not at the moment recalling it..to the detail as I should..

Quote

Right. And as seen in my videos and Bobs, the brightness of the craft varies a lot from time to time as well. Power production would appear to be power consumption related.

Yes, its good to read he may still answer some questions.... I suspect one has to be able to ask him a question that is of interest to him. and be lucky to catch him in the right mood at the right time..

Quote
But as George Knapp relates, he is good friends with Bob and he doesn't even answer him half the time.

Bob does answer some people sometimes, I would imagine it depends on the emails tone and level of interest.

Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: bigpappy51 on June 14, 2018, 07:22:05 pm

Ok how did he get the half sphere back on the reactor ? Once the E115 in in the reactor anti gravity is its engaged. The antimatter prevents Bob from putting his hands with in 3 to 4 feet of the reactor. I can show a video of this with he and George Knapp in 2015 IUFOC. If he cant get his Hands within 3 feet of the instant reaction of E115 How does he install the half sphere ? Lear could not answer nor could Knapp I would love to know.
 Thank I wiull await your answer A51Wacther.
BP51  8)
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: A51Watcher on June 14, 2018, 08:03:11 pm
Ok how did he get the half sphere back on the reactor ? Once the E115 in in the reactor anti gravity is its engaged. The antimatter prevents Bob from putting his hands with in 3 to 4 feet of the reactor. I can show a video of this with he and George Knapp in 2015 IUFOC. If he cant get his Hands within 3 feet of the instant reaction of E115 How does he install the half sphere ? Lear could not answer nor could Knapp I would love to know.
 Thank I wiull await your answer A51Wacther.
BP51  8)

rather than type it out again I will just quote the answer I already gave you above -

Quote
Since the reactor does not operate at full power at all times there has to be power control of some sort. I would imagine they turn the power knob (or whatever) down to it's lowest setting to remove the E115. Ask Bob for a more detailed answer. His email address is no secret.

(https://ufotoday.com/images/ufotoday/2017-06/04/c3e19a78-f74e-4848-bb7f-59f1bc110a73-lg.jpg?v=0.91)

Perhaps hand controls or helmet control.

Or the controls that appear on the wall of the craft? Remember that the walls can become transparent or have symbols appear on them?

Instead of asking John or George, or even me, why don't you ask Bob.

I have seen the craft get extremely bright while hovering, then take off and perform a maneuver. This appeared to be charging a capacitor array or a battery of some sort which stored the energy needed for the upcoming maneuver.

But besides getting bright, they also got very dim at times, indicating that they indeed have some sort of throttle control.

So if you turn the throttle all the way down, you should be able to remove or install the half sphere.

Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: bigpappy51 on June 14, 2018, 10:05:44 pm
Id love to ask Bob but in every story and I mean story there is a flaw many flaws i can point one after another and another if you like. Sorry the story is ridiculous from a scientific point and his point. Bobs own records and transcripts put him there a max of 7 days which is not enough to learn anything A51Watcher. We see things differently I come from a heavy tech background. Bob maintains he figured out that Los Alamos was could not figure out they were machining E115 ....

 Until Bob let them know it was E115 yea ok... I will say this you must never worked in a technical capacity ever piece of material you work on has a data sheet that tells you exactly what the materials are.  Now with that said Bob sated that the guys at LA were to stupid to realize that e=they were machining E115 all coming from a guy with fake degrees... Sorry I dont but it .

Ever worked anywhere that required a clearance ? A materials scientist you dont work on a heavy Element unless you have DATA Sheets on the Elements they are machining. There were 500 Lbs there according to Bob...  and Bob is No physicist I will give Bob 10 grand if he can prove through Facebook he has classmates.
I will wait BP51.

This is not controlled leak more like a CON !!!!!
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: A51Watcher on June 14, 2018, 10:40:04 pm
bp -

Being a technical person as you say, you will appreciate more than most the violation of inertia and mass laws performed by gravity propulsion when you get to see it.

I was certainly impressed. And the only reason I got to see it was because of Bob Lazar.

Dunno what else to tell ya.




Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: astr0144 on June 14, 2018, 11:02:22 pm
I would have to rewatch that video to recall the details...

But otherwise... one thing that may happen is that the reactor may only work once the half sphere has been placed back in a certain way or position.

Would the reactor then work in producing A.G at such a strong repulsive way straight away to repell anyones hands or limbs away .. or could it have some sort of delayed or contolled reaction before it switches on to full strength ?

but then the other issue seems to be how would you later stop the reaction to switch it off or to remove the half sphere top...

You would think somehow or other, that there would be some other control that could switch the reactor on and off  or control the craft over 3 feet away from the sphere..

One thing that I would consider is maybe once you have placed the E115 sample into the reactor and closed the half sphere... that maybe that then is also like having placed a battery into a laptop computer that allows the computer to be able to be switched on and a screen to switch on with an interface.. that in turn allows you to use the interface of the computer to operate the craft...

It would not surprise me if the Aliens could control the Craft by their own minds... or it could be operated by mind control. 

But whether we Humans could do that or not... that maybe another question ?

(http://users.skynet.be/bob.lazar/www.boblazar.com/closed/distort2.gif)

(http://users.skynet.be/bob.lazar/www.boblazar.com/closed/ARCMAP.jpg)

(http://users.skynet.be/bob.lazar/www.boblazar.com/closed/archtop.jpg)

Quote
The black area would indicate the area outside the disc which became transparent to the occupants of the seats.  The blue sidebar would remain and a light horizontal bar would scroll up or down the lines of text.  Illuminating the pattern as illustrated.  Take special note to the alternating slant of every other line.  The writing were forms like these with "eyes" or subcircles within the circles and elipses.  It was not explained to Lazar how this interface was actuated, except for seeing technicians switching it on from a hole in the floor of the centerlevel main deck.  A hole where one of the gravity amplifier heads was cut out.


I can consider that this may allow the craft to then operate under AG.. and lift up within the Earths atmosphere zone or move around the Earth in the way we are led to believe and how A51 and John Lear claims how they witnessed the craft being able to move so quick from one point to another in a second..

But the one main thing that I dont as yet think I could fully accept is it being able to distort space time like Bob suggests... once the craft say has left Earth into Space...

I think I or maybe we need to do a recap on some of the things of the story and see if our views may have changed on certain points or facts ..

As often we learn things at varying times and rethink things some time again later and reconsider things in differing ways..  Our thoughts can vary at differing times as we get older... sometimes some years later.

It seems a long in depth process trying to analyse such a detailed story and trying to understand or requestion certain points...

I dont think that the whole story could be a con.. Some parts maybe still questionable... but other parts I believe possible.

Strange Craft do Exist.. and appear to work in ways similar to Bobs craft... be it ET or now manmade from what maybe back engineered..

and not only A51 and John have witnessed them..


Ok how did he get the half sphere back on the reactor ? Once the E115 in in the reactor anti gravity is its engaged. The antimatter prevents Bob from putting his hands with in 3 to 4 feet of the reactor. I can show a video of this with he and George Knapp in 2015 IUFOC. If he cant get his Hands within 3 feet of the instant reaction of E115 How does he install the half sphere ? Lear could not answer nor could Knapp I would love to know.
 Thank I wiull await your answer A51Wacther.
BP51  8)
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: astr0144 on June 14, 2018, 11:51:40 pm
Bobs origional website has now altered after it was re hosted again some years after he initially had created and hosted it for us all to view..

It had been taken off line for some time at one time...maybe for  a few years...

http://boblazar.com/

This is a copy of the original website..

But within this website... its takes quite a bit of time to try to find all the various related pages..]
some seem almost hidden. and it took me quite a while to find some of them..when I looked the other day.

I think I or some of us need to create a list of all its pages and post a list of all the URLs for each page.

I will try to add some of the various urls later or over the weekend..

http://users.skynet.be/bob.lazar/www.boblazar.com/closed/home.html


eg of Some other webpages ..some that may not be that obvious to find..


http://users.skynet.be/bob.lazar/www.boblazar.com/closed/electrom.html

Element 115

http://users.skynet.be/bob.lazar/www.boblazar.com/closed/element.html

Gravity

http://users.skynet.be/bob.lazar/www.boblazar.com/closed/gravity.html

Gravity A and B

http://users.skynet.be/bob.lazar/www.boblazar.com/closed/gravab.html

The Microwave Analogy

http://users.skynet.be/bob.lazar/www.boblazar.com/closed/electrom.html

Travel thru Space Time

Delta configuration: Using Gravity for Interstellar Travel.

http://users.skynet.be/bob.lazar/www.boblazar.com/closed/delta2.html


This link shows more about the Reactor operation...

(http://users.skynet.be/bob.lazar/www.boblazar.com/closed/r06.gif)

http://users.skynet.be/bob.lazar/www.boblazar.com/closed/bigwedge.html


Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: fansongecho on June 15, 2018, 12:06:28 am
@Astro & A51 - Are there any links, or data on how the "pilots" (either ET or human) had there "air" or what ever the pilots breathed, either recycled, or produced when the ship is in-flight operations? -

EDIT** - These environmental systems, would also (speculation on my part) control the ships internal, Humidity, Atmospheric Pressure, and Internal Temperature Stability - I will have a good luck at Bob's pages when I get home from the work thing Astro  :) :)

Was there ever a diagram/schematic or explanation how the crafts environmental support worked in any detail?

Cheers,

Fansongecho  :)
(I suspect I know the answer)

And I love this dialogue - X-Files Rules !! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ph74FgtnBZ4   8) :) ;)
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: astr0144 on June 15, 2018, 12:47:57 am
Maybe I have overlooked something or other members will comment..

But I am not sure,  as daft as it may seem if I have seen information related to or considered that question before Fans.  ???

maybe its as simple as overlooking what should be a very obvious question many would ask..
and that may make some of us re-question things further..

As mainly I think my initial considerations (and many others who study the topic)  with Bobs story was initialy trying to understand its operation here on Earth.. within the Earths Atmosphere or how it was said to operate in the USA Country in Nevada  around North of Las Vegas at Area 51 and S4.. while being tested..

and that we need to figure that out first before we start to think further about the operation of the craft when it would be seen to leave the Planet..

But When we look at Humans Space Flight... we have to take into consideration what you refer to.

But so far as I recall... Most of Bobs story of the craft relates to it operating here on Earth...

its only if it leaves Earths atmosphere that such details would have to be questioned.

I am aware of some differing theories as to How such craft may travel between what we think of as thru  Space.. and How some ET craft may travel...

but some of them maybe seen as too hard to believe possible..

one eg ... could be that they dont do Star trek like travel to get from one point to another..

so maybe they can move from A to B thru other means or folding space / time that almost allows going from point A to B without travelling thru space as we would consider it... almost in an instant somehow..

some suggest like folding space time..

like you could take a piece of paper... and put two dots  (say point A and Point B )on each end or edge of say an A4 page.. that you could say could represent two points in Space.....  or one point is seen as our planet Earth and the other to represent say another planet in another galaxy.... and the distance between the two points relates to the distance we would expectto travel.. if we can Imagine it as representing another much larger scale like in the Solar system or between Galaxys.

But its suggested that you would shorten the distance to be travelled if you can fold space time or like folding the paper.
where you can then fold the paper or space between the two points... in which then the distance between the two points is now much less and the time taken to travel between them is now much less between point A and Point B..


 and  so fold the paper for the two points to meet...is like folding Space...between the two points..

(http://paperplanedepot.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/A4-horizontal-line-dot.jpg)

(http://cdn.zmescience.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/folding_paper.jpg)

(http://noahtravisphillips.com/HTMLCSSNTP/pattern-formula-magic-script-folding-space-NTP/img/4thDimension20.jpg)

(https://s.hswstatic.com/gif/time-travel-wormhole1.jpg)

Gravity produced by the either  Crafts  Gravity Amplifier or maye in reation to its connection to reactor with use of Element 115 and the reactor I believe is suggested to warp or fold  space and time... between the Craft and its destinatiion point..

The gravity amplifiers of the disc can be focused independently and they are pulsed in a rotational pattern and do not stay on continuously.

http://users.skynet.be/bob.lazar/www.boblazar.com/closed/omi.html

(http://users.skynet.be/bob.lazar/www.boblazar.com/closed/mesh02.jpg)

(http://users.skynet.be/bob.lazar/www.boblazar.com/closed/mesh03.jpg)

(http://users.skynet.be/bob.lazar/www.boblazar.com/closed/mesh04.jpg)

(http://users.skynet.be/bob.lazar/www.boblazar.com/closed/DISTORTION2_long.jpg)

Quote


    Referring to this illustration of space/time distortion below, lets assume the red ball A, can generate a strong gravitational field and lens that gravitational field or wave in this case.  Lensing a strong wave is sufficient to shoot a vector in any direction and therefore distort space-time in its path.  But to define a point in space-time and bring that point to the gravity source, essentially compressing the space-time between   A and B, then the Red ball would need at least 2 or 3 separately generated gravity wave vectors.  This is due to the need to triangulate the three synchronized lensed beams of gravity to a distant point where they intersect.  One example of a triangulation program that uses separate but synchronized vectors exists in the 3D motion capture industry which we use to do feature film effects.  Another example is seen in sound based programs that can detect the exact point of origin of a sniper's position simply by listening to the gunshot from three to six different microphones. When we generate and intense gravitational field, we can distort the space/time and in turn the distance between the point where we are and the 'point' where we want to be. We can then position ourselves at the point where we want to be,  a very small move at this stage, and then stop generating the gravitational field...allowing space/time to return to it's natural form.   We would now be at that new point, still millions of miles from where we started an instant ago.

    With the effects of gravity from so many sources in space, its safe to assume light wouldn't travel in a straight line naturally. So to shoot too far in the distance could be disastrously off the target by millions of miles.  These crafts travel in zig-zag patterns or "small chunks" to maintain a sense of its position in space.  Only the most sophisticated navigation system could keep track of these jump points.  Remember, our star charts are only valuable from our point of view. One powerful jump into space and all those star charts would be void.  Distance from earth to the star as a cross reference would not be enough because that would be to assume that light is really traveling in a straight line, unaffected by gravitational forces
.


http://users.skynet.be/bob.lazar/www.boblazar.com/closed/delta2.html

or they may travel thru Wormholes or mini black holes somehow is another suggested theory. that allows a Craft  to travel more vast distances much quicker and also shorten the Journey much less between the two points..

(https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-8854671a82dc048f56b17722afeb6a9f-c?convert_to_webp=true)

But this is the part that I am most uncertain about !


This offers some explantion how the Craft may use Anti Gravity with use of Gravity A and Gravity B Waves...


(http://users.skynet.be/bob.lazar/www.boblazar.com/closed/orbit.jpg)

Which is like the "Gravity A" being how gravity bonds Atoms together which is a VERY strong type of Gravity or  Force

and Gravity B is like the gravity we experience on holding us on the Surface of the Earth or any sort of  planet  if we try to jump up for eg..the "Gravity B" force acts on us to force us back towards Earth.. and is say between say the Moon and Earth.. and is much weaker Gravity or Force that "Gravity A"

but I also still question How this may also relate to the Earths magnetic Field which I have mentioned before.


(http://users.skynet.be/bob.lazar/www.boblazar.com/closed/distortion3.jpg)

(http://users.skynet.be/bob.lazar/www.boblazar.com/closed/omicron22.jpg)

(http://users.skynet.be/bob.lazar/www.boblazar.com/closed/pulse.jpg)

0-90° Phase-Shift = Amount of Lift or Repulsion

90-180° Phase-Shift = Amount of Attraction



Quote
    Omicron Configuration: Travel near surface of planet or moon.

    When only one amplifier is being used for travel, they're in the Omicron configuration.

    When a disc is near another source of gravity, like earth, the Gravity A-wave, which propagates outward from the disc, is phase shifted into the gravity B-wave, which propagates outward from the earth, thus creating lift. The craft then floats on the gravity field surrounding the earth like a ship on water.  Note that this is not anti-gravity.  It is "simply" taking natural gravity that exists within every atom, accessing it, amplifying it, and shooting it back at another natural form of gravity.  Note also this is not generating gravity either.  Everyone is searching for the concept of energy from nothing, or 0-point energy in an effort to "generate" gravity.

(http://users.skynet.be/bob.lazar/www.boblazar.com/closed/omicron22.jpg)

The gravity amplifiers of the disc can be focused independently and they are pulsed in a rotational pattern and do not stay on continuously.


.

http://users.skynet.be/bob.lazar/www.boblazar.com/closed/omi.html



It may be that they do have a way to create  breathable air within their craft when it maybe required, but  it may not be how we may consider  or expect it to be created as our present Science technology may presently suggest.

But if it is taken into consideration within the craft and its operated by the Power of the E 115 as some sort of Nuclear type power source...

maybe that have the technology to have other ways to create a beathable atmosphere within the craft.. and to also recycle it.

But as daft as i may seem...I dont think that I have seen anything wrote about it...

can you see anything on Bobs website for eg...that relates to your question ?


Quote
@Astro & A51 - Are there any links, or data on how the "pilots" (either ET or human) had there "air" or what ever the pilots breathed, either recycled, or produced when the ship is in-flight operations? -

Was there ever a diagram/schematic or explanation how the crafts environmental support worked in any detail?

Cheers,

Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: A51Watcher on June 15, 2018, 01:20:54 am
@Astro & A51 - Are there any links, or data on how the "pilots" (either ET or human) had there "air" or what ever the pilots breathed, either recycled, or produced when the ship is in-flight operations? -

EDIT** - These environmental systems, would also (speculation on my part) control the ships internal, Humidity, Atmospheric Pressure, and Internal Temperature Stability - I will have a good luck at Bob's pages when I get home from the work thing Astro  :) :)

Was there ever a diagram/schematic or explanation how the crafts environmental support worked in any detail?

Cheers,

Fansongecho  :)
(I suspect I know the answer)

And I love this dialogue - X-Files Rules !! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ph74FgtnBZ4   8) :) ;)


Nope. Never heard anything about that.

No bunkbeds, bathroom or kitchen either.

Since you can get to where you want in an instant, I guess that kind of stuff is not needed. Or they just fold out of the wall.

But still, you would have to have an oxygen supply.

And an oxygen mask or helmet if your destination has no breathable air.



Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: astr0144 on June 15, 2018, 04:42:13 am
Just some further thoughts on Bob Lazars description and theories on How the Saucer relates to the Gravity Theories to create anti gravity.

But I am not willing to post it to be open to the  public as yet, if at all..

so I posted it in Johns Bob Lazar section..

Further thoughts on Bob Lazars anti gravity theory.

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=10985.msg143989#msg143989
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: fansongecho on June 16, 2018, 02:44:50 am

@A51 - Just reading your comments above Specifically RE Nope, and no bunkbeds or bathrooms -

Maybe I am reading the comment with the wrong interpretation? but it appears that those comments are a piss take of my question.

A genuine question about the "Pilots" life-support and internal environment support -

- We have seen lots of theories about the "sports model" and it's propulsion system, theory about Gravity A and Gravity B waves, images of the potential pilot - ship interface, Mark MacCandlish and his drawing of the A.R.V and theories about Element 115 -

Bob L is a controversial figure in the world of Ufology, and I understand why many people who are interested in the esoteric find some of his claims to be "out-there" so with all the other noise and suppositions I am wondering why A51 you would belittle a genuine question?

You mentioned that the craft can move from location to location instantaneously, does this not create a bit of a paradox: IF they can get from A to B in a instant, (negating the need for Humidity, Temperature, Internal Pressure and Oxygen/Other known/unknown gases to support the pilots respiration) then why are some of these craft seen and videoed ?? with reports of the craft varying in size from footballs to football fields and larger.

I have mentioned before I am a sceptic on Lot's of issues surrounding UFO's and associated subjects, I get that we cant always supply a sound or logic based answer or solution to some of the questions the subject(s) raise - but it doesn't mean we shouldn't ask questions on forums in a open and candid and respectful manner, and I would have hoped we would receive the same courtesy when receiving a response A51.

I don't know what this is - 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vA_67l_5P2s

Fansongecho - out.



Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: A51Watcher on June 16, 2018, 09:03:49 am
@A51 - Just reading your comments above Specifically RE Nope, and no bunkbeds or bathrooms -

Maybe I am reading the comment with the wrong interpretation? but it appears that those comments are a piss take of my question.

A genuine question about the "Pilots" life-support and internal environment support -

- We have seen lots of theories about the "sports model" and it's propulsion system, theory about Gravity A and Gravity B waves, images of the potential pilot - ship interface, Mark MacCandlish and his drawing of the A.R.V and theories about Element 115 -

Bob L is a controversial figure in the world of Ufology, and I understand why many people who are interested in the esoteric find some of his claims to be "out-there" so with all the other noise and suppositions I am wondering why A51 you would belittle a genuine question?

You mentioned that the craft can move from location to location instantaneously, does this not create a bit of a paradox: IF they can get from A to B in a instant, (negating the need for Humidity, Temperature, Internal Pressure and Oxygen/Other known/unknown gases to support the pilots respiration) then why are some of these craft seen and videoed ?? with reports of the craft varying in size from footballs to football fields and larger.

I have mentioned before I am a sceptic on Lot's of issues surrounding UFO's and associated subjects, I get that we cant always supply a sound or logic based answer or solution to some of the questions the subject(s) raise - but it doesn't mean we shouldn't ask questions on forums in a open and candid and respectful manner, and I would have hoped we would receive the same courtesy when receiving a response A51.



Yep you read the comment with the wrong interpretation.

I was just adding to the list of stuff I have never seen or heard about inside the craft. Zero amenities as it were. No air supply, food or water, anything.

So the amount of time spent inside the craft is intended to be short.

That was my interpretation.


Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: fansongecho on June 16, 2018, 09:23:24 am

@A51 - Ok, thank you for the clarification.  8)

Cheers,

Fans'
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on June 17, 2018, 02:51:48 am
So  this link was posted by a member of a currently Secret Group that I am a member of. I cannot yet reveal what is going on... but this link is already in public domain    and it is relevant to our discussion here on DeLonge and crew

All the usual names are involved  Quite interesting :D

A Potential Solution to the Mystery of the "Alien" Metal Promoted by "To the Stars"

6/16/2018
 
​Last week, the Society for Scientific Exploration held its thirty-seventh annual conference, this time in combination with the International Remote Viewing Association. The two organizations focus on fringe science claims about psychic powers, the mysteries of consciousness, alternative energy, alternative medicine, etc. You will of course recognize the SSE as the publisher of Edge Science, a magazine whose articles about ancient astronauts and related claims I have had occasion to criticize more than once. Well, at last week’s conference in Las Vegas, Dr. Hal Puthoff gave a lecture on his work for To the Stars Academy of Arts and Science and the Pentagon’s UFO program. Like the secret showman that he has long been, he hinted at things he refused to say and used blanket claims about government classification to avoid dealing with provable details to support his implications and allegations. However, he accidentally led me to the solution to the mystery of To the Stars’ secret “alien” metal alloy that they have been promoting since last year.
You know how I hate to leave a mystery unsolved, and the “alien” alloy really bothered me. But you’ll have to wait until the end to find out the solution. I am mean that way.
 
Regular readers will recall that former Sen. Harry Reid (D-Nev.), working at the behest of campaign donor and UFO believer Robert Bigelow, passed legislation creating the Advanced Aerospace Weapons Systems Application Program, a UFO tracking bureau, whose work (and funding) were outsourced to Bigelow’s company until funding ended in 2012. This program made headlines last December when a former official left the Pentagon, joined Tom DeLonge’s To the Stars, and revealed the existence of the shuttered Pentagon enterprise to the New York Times at the same time that To the Stars began promoting declassified Pentagon videos purporting to show UFOs.
 
Puthoff is DeLonge’s Vice President of Science and Technology at To the Stars Academy. He is a former Scientologist who worked on remote viewing projects and made a name for himself as a believer in various paranormal phenomena, and he is also a paid subcontractor for Bigelow. He admitted this week that he worked on the Pentagon project under financing from Bigelow. While he has endorsed a number of unusual phenomena, he does have his limits. He told fringe writer Philip Gardner in 2013, for example, that he did not endorse the claim that a powder made from “white monoatomic gold” could be used bend space and time or to levitate objects. Strangely, though, this was not because he doubted its power per se but because the owner of the alleged white monoatomic gold powder never provided him with a testable sample. Oddly, though, that exactly what To the Stars has alleged chunks of broken metal from space alien ships can do. Funny how these things always come back around.
 
Puthoff delivered a speech describing his investigation of what he calls “Advanced Aerospace Vehicles” and the pieces of debris that fall from them with astonishing regularity. In his speech to the conference, Puthoff creatively deployed claims of government classification when convenient. One might imagine that if he is indeed correct that the American government is actively investigating these space vehicles and their technology that their very existence would be just as classified as the decidedly less exciting description of their metallic composition, but apparently not, for Puthoff has no trouble sharing allegations that the U.S. is aware of non-human technologies, but hesitates to provide any details about testable material derived from these.
 
Anyway, he says that “you’ve got these Advanced Aerospace Vehicles flying around that we don’t know where they come from, who’s driving them, what the intent is – possibly off-world even.” He implies that this is a Pentagon revelation, but it seems that this is instead his own gloss on plain old everyday UFO reports, for he alleges that the Pentagon’s actual concern regarded planning for encounters with advanced aircraft. Puthoff suggests that these would be future UFO invasions, but there is nothing that suggests this other than his own assertion, and I find it difficult to grasp the idea that the Pentagon would only care whether the Russians or Chinese might use crashed UFOs to gain a technological edge over the Americans. Surely the arrival, and potential capture or destruction, of friging SPACE ALIENS and their craft really ought to warrant some level of interest if true. Puthoff says that space aliens pose no strategic threat that concerned either the Soviet or American governments during the Cold War, so therefore the only concern was whether the enemy might make better use of crashed alien spaceships.
 
What the actual frig?
 
I mean that genuinely.
 
Even leaving aside the fact that the arrival of beings from another world would open us to the potential for Andromeda Strain-style devastation, it is impossible to conceive of a world where intelligent beings from another world are buzzing through the skies regularly and literally nobody cares, except about how much money they can save by piggybacking off their technology. The same Pentagon that obsessed for years over whether you can kill a goat by staring at it has no interest in what would have been the most important scientific, technological, and even existential development in millennia?
 
This is the same problem I have with ufology and ancient astronaut theories. If these people genuinely believed that they had discovered true and incontrovertible evidence of an intelligence beyond human, surely they would be profoundly transformed and not utterly blasé about it. Every street-corner prophet who imagines he has heard the voice of God speaks with more passion and commitment than the men and women who say that they have proved that we are not alone.
 
When we get into the fine details of Puthoff’s claims, things start to get a little fuzzy. Puthoff admits that the Defense Intelligence Agency’s efforts to find a contractor to investigate alleged “advanced aerial vehicles” were “unclassified,” along with the scope and limits of that investigation. He says this in the hope of absolving Bigelow of the implication that Reid, having been convinced to fund the project by Bigelow and those in Bigelow’s orbit, received the Pentagon’s contract as a favor. But Puthoff actually admitted that DIA wasn’t hiding the program and hadn’t classified the supposedly forbidden details. Indeed, he also admitted that most of the documents produced by experts for the program, whitepapers on the future of air and space travel, for example, were also unclassified. These papers covered sci-fi topics such as “positron aerospace propulsion, IEC fusion as a compact energy source, warp drive, dark energy, extra dimensions, metallic glasses for aerospace use.” These papers were shared openly throughout the government.
 
Ah, but when it comes to actual material that Tom DeLonge is profiting from, suddenly things change. Puthoff talks about the allegations that so-called “meta-metals” have been recovered that were beyond human technology. “I’d love to talk about really fancy materials, but they’re classified,” he said. Oh, but of course. The existence of non-human spacecraft isn’t a secret, but the fact that they are made of fancy metals is both a secret and one that can be openly admitted in public so long as he doesn’t provide any details at all. That’s some very selective classification.
 
Puthoff, however, says that he can talk about a chunk of metal that the late radio host Art Bell had told him about decades ago.

Puthoff said that he examined the sample after a self-described military man said he had recovered it from a UFO crash site and sent it “by email” to Bell. It appears that Puthoff is not describing an actual physical sample in Bell’s possession but rather a document claiming to describe a government report on such a sample, but Linda Moulton Howe claimed in the Roswell Daily Record last year that Bell had the actual sample (six in fact!) and that it had been “recovered” from the Roswell UFO crash site and sent to Bell in 1996 by an Army sergeant who got it from his grandfather.
 
Here is what Puthoff had to say:
It was a multilayered bismuth and magnesium sample. Bismuth layers less than a human hair. Magnesium samples about ten-times the size of a human hair. Supposedly picked up in the crash retrieval of an Advanced Aerospace Vehicle. It looks like it’s been in a crash. The white lines are the bismuth; the darker areas are the magnesium separations. So the question was what about this material, so naturally we looked in all the national labs, we talked to metallurgists, we combed the entire structure of published papers. Nowhere could we find any evidence that anybody ever made one of these. […] Well, years later, decades later actually, finally our own science moves along. We move into an area called metamaterials, and it turns out exactly this combination of materials at exactly those dimensions turn out to be an excellent microscopic waveguide for very high frequency electromagnetic radiation terahertz frequencies.
​And where is this sample now? Amazing the way these astonishing pieces of evidence vanish. The research that Puthoff said he did is the exact same research that Howe claims to have done, point for point, and that strongly implies that they were not working entirely independently. Howe’s findings, though, were hardly conclusive. She asked electrical engineer Travis Taylor to do a literature search, and he couldn’t find reference to the magnesium-bismuth material.
 
This is clearly of a piece with the other bits of exotic metal that fellow Bigelow consultant and ufologist Jacques Vallée has been talking up for the past year. Vallée specifically identified the metal chunks he works with as being made of “magnesium” with unusual isotope ratios. DeLonge claimed that his lumps of metal are unnatural “alloys” that can bend space and time and counteract gravity. Where have heard that before? But specifically, he alleged that the metal was “3D-printed” with different layers of different metals. This is indistinguishable from Puthoff’s description of a sample made of multilayered bismuth and magnesium, and indeed, I found that DeLonge referred to “layered bismuth and magnesium metamaterials” being in his possession. Despite the superficial differences, I have trouble believing that Bigelow’s satellites—Puthoff, Vallée, and even DeLonge—aren’t all promoting variations of the same thing. Garry Nolan of To the Stars seemed to confirm this in describing the magnesium-bismuth metamaterials as alloys, alleging that they have unusual isotope ratios, and endorsing the overlapping claims found in all three of the other advocates’ allegations about the materials.
 
Here is Nolan confirming my suspicions explicitly: “Yes, Jacques and I have worked together on many projects. Including his recent discussions on the isotope ratios. Jacques previously worked with Peter Sturrock (Emeritus Professor of Astrophysics here at Stanford) a couple of decades ago on composition of materials from UAP.” “UAP” refers to “unidentified aerial phenomena.”
 
So, to summarize: All of Bigelow’s satellites are engaged in a mutual dance of apparent delusion. Nolan is a microbiologist. Vallée is a computer scientist and venture capitalist. Puthoff trained as an electrical engineer and spent his career in parapsychology. None has expertise in metals or their claimed quantum processes of producing unusual metals. According to no less an authority than Vallée himself, speaking in interviews last year, they have made no use of experts in advanced metallurgy but have instead used commercial laboratories to study pieces of metal and developed their own explanations of the results. “I’m pretty well connected with the high-tech community, including one company that I financed as a venture capitalist,” he told Skeptico last fall, adding that he hired their mass spectrometer to analyze magnesium slag for alien isotope ratios.
 
But more to the point, try parsing Puthoff’s description carefully. Puthoff wants us to read this as saying that the military recovered a sample of metamaterials, failed to reproduce it, but made great advances over decades after studying it. And yet the description also could just as easily suggest that a secret advanced program had produced such metal earlier than it had become public and that not everyone was aware of who was working on what. Indeed, Puthoff himself provided evidence for that very reading when he admitted that “it’s a high compartmentalizational topic, therefore a slow pace of cumulative progress and integration. We call ’em ‘stovepipes.’ You have a lot of people with lots of detailed information about some particular aspect, but they don’t talk each other even if it is sitting at the next desk.”
 
Basically, if we apply the most plausible reading to the claims as given (which is a dicey proposition to start with), Puthoff is acting surprised that a classified military program may have tested aircraft with advanced materials that were not publicly described for several decades after testing began. This should surprise no one. Stealth aircraft were under development for many years before they made their public debut—and, indeed, the U.S. government may even have encouraged ufological explanations for sightings of stealth craft before they were ready to be officially acknowledged in order to help keep them secret.
 
That there is something fishy in all of this can be seen in the fact that the magnesium-bismuth layering is not a new discovery but is widely discussed in fringe literature for decades. Linda Moulton Howe has been promoting it since the 1990s, and it appears routinely in twenty-first century books about anti-gravity technology and UFOs, going back at least to the early 2000s. I am torn between thinking that the Bigelow group are blindly pursuing what they think is real U.S. government research into magnesium-bismuth layering and thinking that they are cynically pulling bizarre claims from UFO literature to excite ufologists and UFO believers into thinking that they have real pieces of a flying saucer.
 
A final piece of evidence suggests that the Bigelow’s men are overstating their claims. In 1996, Linda Moulton Howe commissioned technologist Nicholas A. Reiter, himself an anti-gravity researcher and a  fringe believer in UFOs and paranormal things, to investigate the “Roswell sample”—i.e. the same piece that Puthoff is now promoting. Reiter determined that it was earthly and, while unusual, was not impossible. In 2001, he updated his findings with this information: “The combination of bismuth and magnesium had eluded us for four years. But then one day, we found a reference to an obscure industrial process used in the refinement of lead. The process, called the Betterton-Krohl Process, uses molten magnesium floated over the surface of liquid lead. The magnesium sucks up, or pulls bismuth impurities out of the lead! Often, the magnesium is used over and over again…” Presumably, this is the same process that was patented in 1938, producing a thin crust of layered magnesium and bismuth, which is removed from the lead. When the magnesium is reused, new layers would form. (The Fortean Times endorsed this solution in 2016.) Remember that Vallée’s sample was specifically identified as slag—i.e., industrial debris. Howe refused to publicize Reiter’s results, preferring to string along the “alien” mystery. Of course, we would need a known sample made by the industrial process to test the “alien” versions against, but the distribution of the slag in industrialized nations (Vallée claims examples from France, Argentina, and America, for example) id s point in favor of this solution.

The new information here is that To the Stars seems to be collecting more of the same industrial waste that Linda Moulton Howe has been cycling through the UFO circuit for 22 years.
 
The “space-time” and “gravitational” anomalies of the metal are also explainable, and have been explained for decades. Howe, Puthoff, and DeLonge all ran high voltage through the metal and made it move. Any piece of metal will react the same way to high enough electrical voltage. If I understand the science correctly, the unusual isotope ratios may also be a result of the industrial process, since the resulting metal is artificial and not a natural occurrence.
 
Bottom line: The Bigelow-adjacent men may well be testing industrial waste and imagining they have found alien technology, or know better and are lying about it. A photo of the apparent industrial waste makes visible how decidedly unlike a flying saucer’s smooth, sleek, and fictitious finish it appears:

(http://www.jasoncolavito.com/uploads/3/7/5/9/3759274/img-1521_orig.jpg)

​The bigger question is why they are promoting industrial waste as UFO wreckage, and why so many people affiliated with Bigelow are pushing this narrative. I could only speculate.
 
There are some uncanny echoes to the part of the 1947 Maury Island incident where Harold Dahl and Fred Crisman tried to pass off industrial slag to Ray Palmer as remnants of a crashed flying saucer, only to have the hoax revealed by a careful analysis, leading Dahl to admit the deception.
 
Puthoff went on to say that he felt the need to communicate with the public about mystery vehicles and therefore left government work to cofound To the Stars Academy with DeLonge. This is another area where I am dumbfounded. Supposedly, he had access to proof positive of space aliens, and their actual technology, and chose to … do nothing, to walk away, and to give speeches instead of working on actual space alien machines and metals. I guess that’s because his actual job didn’t really involve space aliens or UFOs but rather coordinating a series of speculative reports about future aerial technologies. In other words, he doesn’t actually know what he implies that he knows, and didn’t work on the things he imagines that people he admits he didn’t work with were working on.

http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/a-potential-solution-to-the-mystery-of-the-alien-metal-promoted-by-to-the-stars
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: Canine on June 17, 2018, 03:30:41 am
thanks for sharing that Zorgon.

Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on June 17, 2018, 03:33:15 pm
Jacques Valee is also part of the DeLonge Group...

He was (is?) a member of the Aviary that includes Hal Puthoff,  Col John Alexander Etc...  I am certain that Robert Bigelow was also a member of that Flock of Birds but I never saw a bird name for him yet... He certainly does associate with that group though  and this new gig with DeLonge... the same old names are popping up again.

It appears that someone recently updated Jacques Vallee's page on Wikipedia...   

I have clipped this particular section as it is directly connected to this topic. I have high lighted a couple points... not sure how many know that Jacques started his career when he witnessed a RETROGRADE SATELLITE  ( a satellite going in the opposite direction of the ones we launch


Paranormal research

In May 1955, Vallée first sighted an unidentified flying object over his Pontoise home. Six years later in 1961, while working on the staff of the French Space Committee, Vallée claims to have witnessed the destruction of the tracking tapes of an unknown object orbiting the earth. The particular object was a retrograde satellite – that is, a satellite orbiting the earth in the opposite direction to the earth's rotation. At the time he observed this, there were no rockets powerful enough to launch such a satellite, so the team was quite excited as they assumed that the Earth's gravity had captured a natural satellite (asteroid). He claims that an unnamed superior came and erased the tape. These events contributed to Vallée's long-standing interest in the UFO phenomenon. Vallée began to correspond with Aimé Michel (who would become a lifelong mentor and research collaborator) in 1958.

In the mid-1960s, like many other UFO researchers, Vallée initially attempted to validate the popular Extraterrestrial Hypothesis (or ETH). UFO researcher Jerome Clark[3] argues that Vallée's first two UFO books were among the most scientifically sophisticated defenses of the ETH ever mounted.

However, by 1969, Vallée's conclusions had changed, and he publicly stated that the ETH was too narrow and ignored too much data. Vallée began exploring the commonalities between UFOs, cults, religious movements, demons, angels, ghosts, cryptid sightings, and psychic phenomena. Speculation about these potential links were first detailed in Vallée's third UFO book, Passport to Magonia: From Folklore to Flying Saucers.

As an alternative to the extraterrestrial visitation hypothesis, Vallée has suggested a multidimensional visitation hypothesis. This hypothesis represents an extension of the ETH where the alleged extraterrestrials could be potentially from anywhere. The entities could be multidimensional beyond space-time, and thus could coexist with humans, yet remain undetected.

Vallée's opposition to the popular ETH was not well received by prominent U.S. ufologists, hence he was viewed as something of an outcast. Indeed, Vallée refers to himself as a "heretic among heretics".

Vallée's opposition to the ETH theory is summarised in his paper, "Five Arguments Against the Extraterrestrial Origin of Unidentified Flying Objects", Journal of Scientific Exploration, 1990:

Scientific opinion has generally followed public opinion in the belief that unidentified flying objects either do not exist (the "natural phenomena hypothesis") or, if they do, must represent evidence of a visitation by some advanced race of space travellers (the extraterrestrial hypothesis or "ETH"). It is the view of the author that research on UFOs need not be restricted to these two alternatives. On the contrary, the accumulated data base exhibits several patterns tending to indicate that UFOs are real, represent a previously unrecognized phenomenon, and that the facts do not support the common concept of "space visitors." Five specific arguments articulated here contradict the ETH:

1) unexplained close encounters are far more numerous than required for any physical survey of the earth;
2) the humanoid body structure of the alleged "aliens" is not likely to have originated on another planet and is not biologically adapted to space travel;
3) the reported behavior in thousands of abduction reports contradicts the hypothesis of genetic or scientific experimentation on humans by an advanced race;
4) the extension of the phenomenon throughout recorded human history demonstrates that UFOs are not a contemporary phenomenon; and
5) the apparent ability of UFOs to manipulate space and time suggests radically different and richer alternatives.

Vallée has contributed to the investigation of the Miracle at Fatima and Marian apparitions. His work has been used to support the Fatima UFO Hypothesis. Vallée is one of the first people to speculate publicly about the possibility that the "solar dance" at Fatima was a UFO. The idea of UFOs was not unknown in 1917, but most of the people in attendance at the Fatima apparitions would not have attributed the claimed phenomena there to UFOs, let alone to extraterrestrials. Vallée has also speculated about the possibility that other religious apparitions may have been the result of UFO activity including Our Lady of Lourdes and the revelations to Joseph Smith. Vallée and other researchers have advocated further study of unusual phenomena in the academic community. They don't believe that this should be handled solely by theologians.[4][5][6]

As a result of his imprimatur, association with SRI and friendships with Harold E. Puthoff and Central Intelligence Agency analyst Kit Green (who obtained a temporary security clearance for him in 1974), Vallée was intermittently consulted on classified remote viewing research (including the Stargate Project) throughout the 1970s and 1980s. During the early SRI experiments (led by Puthoff and Russell Targ with Green as CIA liaison), he became acquainted with Uri Geller, Edgar Mitchell, Charles Musès, Andrija Puharich, Jack Sarfatti, Arthur M. Young, Edwin C. May, Pat Price and Ingo Swann. In 1973, Doubleday editor Bill Whitehead introduced Vallée to Ira Einhorn, a close confederate of Puharich; their association would span Vallée's business and paranormal networks until Einhorn was charged with murdering his ex-girlfriend in 1979.

More recently, he has been associated with Robert Bigelow as a consultant to the National Institute for Discovery Science and a member of the scientific advisory board of Bigelow Aerospace.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Vallée
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on June 17, 2018, 03:35:18 pm
List of Aviary Members
Written by Grant Cameron    
Friday, 29 April 2011 14:46


BLUE JAY: Dr. Christopher "Kit" Green, MD, Ph.D; Chief, Biomedical Sciences Department, General Motors, former head of the CIA's UFO files at the "Weird Desk."

SEA GULL: Bruce Maccabee, Ph.D., research scientist in optical physics and laser weapons applications at the U.S. Naval Surface Weapons Lab, Maryland; MUFON physics/photo-interpretive consultant.

PELICAN: Ron Pandolfi, CIA Deputy Director for the Division of Science and Technology and current custodian of UFO files at the "Weird Desk"; may be involved in the White House initiative to promptly release UFO information to the public.

OWL: Hal Puthoff, physicist with the Institute for Advanced Research in Austin, Texas, who specializes in Zero-Point Energy, a quantum/resonance physics phenomenon with reported potential for above-unity ("free") energy.

PENGUIN: John Alexander, Ph.D, Lt. Col. U.S. Army Intelligence and Security Command Col.

HAWK: Ernie Kellerstrauss, security cleared for UFO information; worked at Wright-Patterson AFB in the 1970s and reportedly lived with an extraterrestrial for a while.

CHICKADEE: Cmdr. C.B. Scott Jones, Ph.D., USN (Ret.), former officer with the Office of Naval intelligence and other agencies; 30 years service in U.S. intelligence overseas; involved in government research and development projects for the Defense Nuclear Agency, Defense Intelligence Agency, Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, and other organizations; former aide to Sen. Clairborne Pell, who had had a long-standing interest in UFOs and the paranormal.

CONDOR: Capt. Bob Collins, USAF (Ret.); Special Agent, Air Force Office of Special Investigations, engaged in UFO-related intelligence operations, reportedly appeared clandestinely on the 1988 television program "UFO Cover-Up Live"

FALCON: Many have fingered Sgt. Richard "Dick" Doty, USAF (Ret.); Special Agent, Air Force Office of Special Investigations; reported to have engaged in UFO disinformation projects, including reportedly hoaxing TV producer Linda Howe concerning availability of a tape showing a UFO landing at Holloman Air Force Base, N.M. and allegedly waging psychological warfare on Albuquerque defense electronic contractor Paul Bennewitz. The actual Falcon was a DIA agent with a Slavic name who died in 2001. Only Bill Moore and Greg Bishop know who this person is as far as we know.

SPARROW: Richard Doty

RAVEN: (Identity not yet determined – actually may be two different ones.) One raven may have been Dale Graff (Raven) - Performed contract oversight for the DIA at Wright Patterson AFB. Most recently, Graff was the chief of the DIA's Defense Technology/Special department. Second RAVEN appears to be a kingpin. Jamie Shandera dealt with him.

PARTRIDGE: Jacques Vallee, Ph.D., formerly an astrophysicist with GEPAN, the French Government’s UFO investigative agency, later moved to U.S. as principal investigator with Defense Department computer network projects; worked with famed astronomer Dr. J. Allen Hynek author on UFO subject.

Jack Vorona (bird name unknown) - Vorona was apparently the most covert of all the Birds. He was believed to have been a liaison between Capitol Hill and Los Alamos. Was once involved in Project Sleeping Beauty, an attempt to disable enemy troops using electromagnetic radiation.

CHICKEN LITTLE: Dan Smith, civilian UFO research/volunteer liaison with Ronald Pandolfi.
Last Updated on Monday, 02 May 2011 12:41

http://www.presidentialufo.com/the-aviary/363-list-of-aviary-members
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: fansongecho on June 18, 2018, 03:24:40 pm

Just catching up with one of Grant's C lastest lectures -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQfxK-yQlYY&t=26s

Not sure where I am with him.. 

 :-\

Fans'
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on July 07, 2018, 07:42:51 pm
So... Just as I suspected all along...
UFOlogy is all a big LIE and has been since the very beginning...


... well at least according to 4 Names and his new Skinwalker Ranch documentary..

He says so in his opening comments on ATS

Springer
posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 06:00 PM link   

I finally got Jeremy's account issues sorted, he will be joining the discussion(s) shortly, PLEASE don't bombard him questions, he has lots of catching up to do.

Also, please treat him as a friend, seeing as how he is one, ask what you want but civility will be enforced as it is for any member.

Thanks...

JeremyCorbell
posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 06:01 PM link   

Houston... there's no problem. Ground Control... this is Major Tom. The transmissions are working. Excited to join you all here. a reply to: Springer

The GUT
posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 06:28 PM link   
a reply to: JeremyCorbell

Hiya, Jeremy! Very cool of you to join us here.

Easy & hard at the same time: What has been the single most mind-blowing evidence you've seen while working on your SWR docu?

Probably the most intriguing documentary to come out of phenomenology in a long while. If not ever.

vlawde
posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 06:44 PM link   

Aside from your documentary, are there any major reveals about the phenomena and solid evidence that will ever come to light?

JeremyCorbell
posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 08:01 PM link   

Thanks a reply to: The GUT! Well, I would say that witness testimony is the most compelling evidence we have. As you are probably aware, the intelligence at the ranch doesn’t play nice... and doesn’t like being recorded. Hard to believe, but seems to be quite true. So we are left with whatever The Phenomenon wants us to have, and testimony is the most compelling to me personally (better than footage of a light swimming in inky darkness). The most shaking moment for me was to have direct access to the ranch over a long period of time, and to discover just how in-depth the DIA programs were at the ranch. My film will touch on this... it will hint that all the UFO news is misleading... because it all started with Skinwalker Ranch... and the biggest part of the story is yet to be told. I hope that helps. Thanks for the question.

SOURCE:  http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread1204259/pg41#pid23562327

So it sounds like the film will have no solid evidence and 'hint' that all UFO material stems from the Ranch ans has all been misleading

With Harry Reid having stated that he doesn't believe in "Little green men" and Roswell Saucers and saying 'it's Demons'...  and Robert Bigelow wanting to use this UFO info to contact his dead Son...

I suspect all we will se is more bullshit and no evidence of anything

Just another tall tale..

BUT this one driven by some powerful and wealthy people




Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on July 07, 2018, 07:48:47 pm
The GUT
posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 08:18 PM link   

Thank you very much, Jeremy, and you just caused my jaw to drop a little---I guess DIA involvement is one of the greatest teasers about the whole thing. Why and to what degree mainly although I'm not gonna ask you to give any of that away here. Any other teasers you might throw out about that would be happily consumed however. Glad to hear it's going to be addressed a bit.

I'll let others try and get you to elaborate on "UFO news is misleading..."

vlawde
posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 09:46 PM link   

Is there currently active investigations happening at the ranch? And will the owner eventually reveal themself?

JeremyCorbell
posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 11:26 PM link

a reply to: vlawde Yes there is a current investigation underway... this is now a THIRD scientific study. And I have no idea if the new owner will ever reveal their identity. I understand the desire for confidentiality, and I deeply respect it.

SOURCE:  http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread1204259/pg41#pid23562327
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on July 07, 2018, 07:53:17 pm
thepixelpusher
posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 09:59 PM link   

Jeremy, what is this fading in on the trailer?? Looks like some pillars??? Will the original video source be featured in the film instead of being taken off a monitor?

(http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/er5b381795.jpg)

JeremyCorbell
posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 11:23 PM link   
a reply to: thepixelpushe

Appreciated..  iTunes on 9/11 and hopefully a great Subscription based platform too!  that’s a little Easter Egg from the film. Good eye. Let’s see what the film has to offer... 9/11/18

thepixelpusher
posted on Jul, 7 2018 @ 01:03 AM link   

Release on 9/11!!?? I thought those pillars looked like the twin towers!

Smugallo
posted on Jul, 7 2018 @ 03:13 AM link   

Hi Jeremy. You're doing gods work in the muddy waters of UFOLOGY. I have a question. From your previous comment, you said that 'all the UFO news is misleading.' Do you mean all the recent UFO news or UFO news in general? Is it safe to assume you don't believe in the 'nuts and bolts' craft given your time with all the material at the Utah ranch?


JohnnyAnonymous
posted on Jul, 7 2018 @ 02:06 AM link   
Hi Jeremy, a sincere welcome to ATS.

No question at this time, but am anxiously awaiting to view your Doc.

Johnny

SOURCE: http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread1204259/pg41#pid23562327
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on July 07, 2018, 07:57:27 pm
So... teasers and a subscription service... buy that film... to get any answers

(but don't expect any REAL info :P )

You know  Secure Team 10, one of the biggest hoaxers out there is making $7,000 a month on YT and subscriptions... That kid has managers to make so much cash he has a huge house and fancy cars...  but little in the way of truth

I guess TRUTH has little value... they will pay big bucks for the story they WANT to believe...


Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: The Seeker on July 07, 2018, 08:25:12 pm
History always repeats itself, Z; shades of carpet baggers and snake oil salesmen in the modern age...

and a hologram of the twin towers faded in the trailer,too
 ::)

hip boots and waders at the ready...
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on July 08, 2018, 01:39:56 am
Okay it gets worse... seem the whole thing really IS a Circus Side Show billed as the main attraction...

Paddyofurniture
posted on Jul, 7 2018 @ 06:53 AM link   
Thanks Jeremy,

Switching to your upcoming Lazar Documentary.

1- did you find any new info on Bob Lazar’s Background? Proof of education? Possibly Mr Lazar clearing up the mystery behind his MIT, Cal Tech, etc educational claims.

2 - any attempt to confirm proof of S-4

3. - my greatest fear of the Lazar story is that he is highly intelligent and is rumored to enjoy a good prank or practical joke. Did you sense any aspect that Bob Lazar opinion on his experience has waivered ? what is you opinion of the man and his story now in 2018.

Again thanks for your reply and coming to ATS . Greatly appreciated

Also a interesting part of the story. Less than a year after Lazar is fired from “ Navy Intelligence” he is arrested for some involvement with prostitution which is later pleaded down to a pandering charge.

(http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/wf52f98c8e.jpg)

No reply yet to that but there is THIS

vlawde
posted on Jul, 7 2018 @ 09:45 PM link   

That's the standard assumption, that he's way in the background but still owns it. I've also heard that british singer Robbie Williams may be involved in ownership. Some say that it was his private plane that Jeremey etc flew in on that video/photo we've seen

thepixelpusher
posted on Jul, 7 2018 @ 09:51 PM link   
a reply to: vlawde

I didn't realize the ownership was in question. Perhaps Mr. Corbell or Springer could clear that up for us.

vlawde
posted on Jul, 7 2018 @ 09:55 PM link   

I've heard the owner wants to retain their privacy. I do think Bigelow is involved in some way, if not directly.

Springer
posted on Jul, 8 2018 @ 12:35 AM link   
a reply to: thepixelpusher

Bob sold it to the new owner a couple years ago (or so), you're way behind on the timeline of events here man.

My friend Robbie Williams is an interested party in as much as he was there with us back in March.

thepixelpusher
posted on Jul, 8 2018 @ 01:48 AM link   
a reply to: Springer

Thanks for the update!

Okay so years ago just before I got banned from ATS, this Robbie Williams was also at the James Gilliland Ranch field trip that ATS did renting a million dollar motor home and tones of equipment to investigate the UFO activity at that ranch.  The end results? "Much Ado About Nothing"  Lot of money spent  no results of note.

My comments about that incident and the money ATS had access to was probably what started my way out the door because i dared question it. While I do like Johnny Anonymous and he did stick up for me not being banned... this photo from that field trip pretty much shows how serious these 'researchers' were :P  That is Robbie Williams on the left...

(https://scontent.flas1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/36812301_1046127588897117_7671144158563663872_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=9f11be2217d58020d094e599817e464f&oe=5BE71CFF)

UPDATE:

I was recently invited to a PRIVATE GROUP on facebook that has only 6 members. I cannot at this time reveal the names but 5 of then are still active at ATS

The group name is Bigelow Background... I have been recording all the posts at Pegasus Coffee Shop (our private work area) so it won't get lost. From time to time some of the material shared there is already in public domain so I will post that here (already have a few times)

Today I posted this :

"I was tuning in on ATS and saw Jeremy pop in for an AMA  Seems it's all snake oil selling to me :P I was amazed to find out that Robbin Williams is involved in the Skin Walker story.  last i saw him was when ATS went to the James Gilliland Ranch  Still have a photo of him with Johnny Anonymous. And now apparently Bigelow sold the ranch a few years ago according to Springer and Robbie is in on that? "

Will wait for a reply on that one...
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on July 08, 2018, 02:18:55 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ia8tTtMMqXU

One comment on that YT Video


The Observer
9 months ago
Someone who owns a drone please go to Mt. Adams and show us these entrances plus the statue that he claims exists at the entrance.  I am getting pretty weary of all the hype and no answers.


I agree  we need something other than just Blah Blah Blah stories and no pictures
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: bigpappy51 on December 19, 2018, 05:49:24 am
By the way I talked to Bob Lazar and he said he thinks Barry somehow turned the emitter which turned off the reaction Said he had never been asked that question before. I am only interested in technical data of the case that makes no sense.

 Im not real sure how turning what he calls the emitter would do anything. The reactor has to be shut off somehow if you can't physically touch the reactor with you hand how do you turn the reator off? They were throwing golf balls against the reactor at S-4 which bounced off the anti gravitational force.
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: fansongecho on December 19, 2018, 02:28:56 pm

Immaculate Deception - super play on words me thinks' - did Part 2 and 3 ever get released or was it a con job to get into JL home and abuse his trust ??

I wonder who 4 names will be visiting next?  I pinged him on FB to see if Bob L was getting paid for his part of the latest film.. so far no answer -

Still boiling about this guy...

Cheers,
F  >:(
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on December 19, 2018, 02:56:46 pm
Immaculate Deception - super play on words me thinks' - did Part 2 and 3 ever get released or was it a con job to get into JL home and abuse his trust ??

4 Names spent 4 years or so at John's house and got a look at all John's files. This was during the time that John was heavily under the opiate pain meds and was not quite with it most days.

4 Names managed to get all of John's passwords for Facebook, etc and even his email account. It took a long time and a lot of hard work to get all that fixed

4 Names also manages to access John's skype and was able to control it remotely so he could eves drop on any conversation in John's den... a fact Sgt R&R discovered when we were over there and 4 names just popped in on the conversation.  Caught us off guard.  This is one of the reasons I will NEVER use skype even though it destroyed Pegasus a few years back

I doubt we will see any more of the films featuring John... I suspect 4 names is waiting for John to pass... before cashing in on it.

4 Names commandeered John's website TheRealJohnLear.com... we tried to get that sorted but only John or Marilee can do that. I guess they forgot about it.  At the party John said 4 names denied it and asked me to provide him the proof again so I did...

Domain ownership is EASY to find as it is by law public record... just need to know where to look.  In this case domain info is found doing a WHOIS search. As that domain is hosted by Godaddy.com  a whois search there provides THIS info:

https://www.godaddy.com/whois
TheRealJohnLear.com

Quote
WHOIS search results
Domain Name: THEREALJOHNLEAR.COM
Registry Domain ID: 1559760964_DOMAIN_COM-VRSN
Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.godaddy.com
Registrar URL: http://www.godaddy.com
Updated Date: 2015-01-22T19:31:51Z
Creation Date: 2009-06-19T19:32:47Z
Registrar Registration Expiration Date: 2022-06-19T19:32:47Z
Registrar: GoDaddy.com, LLC
Registrar IANA ID: 146
Registrar Abuse Contact Email: abuse@godaddy.com
Registrar Abuse Contact Phone: +1.4806242505
Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited
Domain Status: clientUpdateProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientUpdateProhibited
Domain Status: clientRenewProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientRenewProhibited
Domain Status: clientDeleteProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientDeleteProhibited
Registry Registrant ID: Not Available From Registry
Registrant Name: Jeremy Corbell
Registrant Organization: JKLC PRODUCTIONS
Registrant Street: PO BOX 642
Registrant City: Pioneertown
Registrant State/Province: California
Registrant Postal Code: 92268
Registrant Country: US
Registrant Phone: +1.3348444244
Registrant Phone Ext:
Registrant Fax:
Registrant Fax Ext:
Registrant Email: info@jeremycorbell.com
Registry Admin ID: Not Available From Registry
Admin Name: Jeremy Corbell
Admin Organization: JKLC PRODUCTIONS
Admin Street: PO BOX 642
Admin City: Pioneertown
Admin State/Province: California
Admin Postal Code: 92268
Admin Country: US
Admin Phone: +1.3348444244
Admin Phone Ext:
Admin Fax:
Admin Fax Ext:
Admin Email: info@jeremycorbell.com
Registry Tech ID: Not Available From Registry
Tech Name: Jeremy Corbell
Tech Organization: JKLC PRODUCTIONS
Tech Street: PO BOX 642
Tech City: Pioneertown
Tech State/Province: California
Tech Postal Code: 92268
Tech Country: US
Tech Phone: +1.3348444244
Tech Phone Ext:
Tech Fax:
Tech Fax Ext:
Tech Email: info@jeremycorbell.com
Name Server: NS1.MEDIATEMPLE.NET
Name Server: NS2.MEDIATEMPLE.NET
DNSSEC: unsigned
URL of the ICANN WHOIS Data Problem Reporting System: http://wdprs.internic.net/
>>> Last update of WHOIS database: 2018-12-19T21:00:00Z <<<

For more information on Whois status codes, please visit https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/epp-status-codes-2014-06-16-en

Now if John doesn't fix this soon 4 Names will have that account after John passes and there will be NOTHING anyone can do

I tried my best... but all I can do is provide information... I have no clout against these guys with all that money and network behind them. 4 Names has weaseled his way into that group and is making big bucks, and John (nor anyone else as far as I can see, is getting a penny out of it.

Frankly I am getting sick of the whole UFO circus....

Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: Sgt.Rocknroll on December 19, 2018, 03:23:13 pm
I remember that day very well Zorgon. We were talking to John and all of a sudden 'POOF', there's 4 names on John's screen. We (you and I) both turned to each other exactly the same time and knew something was up and I don't know if you remember or not, but while I was there, 4 names came on again, saying he was 'fixing' a problem with John's email.
On our way out Marilee was out in the front, working on her yard and we stopped and told her about 4 names on John's computer. If you remember she was understandably surprised.

That was in 2015, I caught 4 names impersonating John on John's FB page. I called John personally and ask him if it was indeed him on FB. He said I haven't used FB in a very long time, he asked for 'our' help to fix this mess.
You went and did fix that. John was indeed not with it at that time as you said because of the drugs he was on.

After John passes, and he will, 4 names has everything he needs to take control of everything.
I've relayed my concerns to John and Marilee, but that's all I can do.
 8)
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on December 19, 2018, 03:46:32 pm
Yes 2015  Seems an eternity ago now... I still have all the material we screen capped before 4 Names blocked us. many of John's friends were there at the time and know this to be the truth.  Took some time to get FB to remove all the bogus JL accounts.

He had to write a letter to cox to get his email password fixed before we could get FB to access his real account. Its been okay since then.

It IS important that we document this here so there is a written history..

but as you say, there is little else we can do... it's up to John, Marilee and their lawyers at this point.


At least Gene Huff is on the same page about 4 Names and I hear rumors that George Knapp is having doubts now. I shall see if that goes anywhere.  I suppose i could write George and ask...  the last time I did that he did squash a story on asbestos dust in the valley :P

(He was planning to do a big story on the need to do something about the asbestos dust in and around Boulder City/Henderson. I pointed out to him that the region is full of actinolite natural rock formations. When actinolite weathers, as it is an asbestos group mineral, it turns to asbestos fibers.  You can't "do anything' about a natural decay of rock formations :P)
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: Maverick7 on December 20, 2018, 08:13:47 am
Guys WRT the UFO phenomenon and the ET hypothesis we are best served by being of two minds.

1. One mind is that which is open to possibilities. That mind would explore those, but always with a scientific aspect. We would eschew all that is 'too far out' and in the realm of 'fairies, and elves and mythical beings'. We need to ask the 'bottom line' questions.

2. The other mind as to have a 'reference standard' approach. That is to ask the question: "Let's say as a GIVEN that there are no aliens" This would be similar to the Devil's Advocate position. IF there are no aliens and this high strangeness event happened how would we explain it in prosaic terms.

Bottom line questions would be those that are extremely specific so as to avoid an error of generalization. However, though we might entertain the notion of a non-terrestrial act or cause, we would still try to rank the possibilities properly.

The Reference Standard approach (no aliens) is just a 'touchstone' to keep things on the level and prevent one from drifting into 'fandom'.

I could give some examples but suffice it to say cast a wide net but of a fine mesh.

-MaverickO7
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: zorgon on December 20, 2018, 10:34:17 pm
We would eschew all that is 'too far out' and in the realm of 'fairies, and elves and mythical beings'.

Nope can't do THAT... 'fairies, and elves and mythical beings' are REAL for them I have proof  :P
Title: Re: Immaculate Deception
Post by: petrus4 on December 21, 2018, 01:40:03 am
Lazaar is about the only person left, associated with the UFO scene, who I don't consider to be entirely full of bovine fecal matter at this point.  The science might be funky and exotic, but it makes sense.

Although, as cool as tunnelling once was, it's actually old news at this point.  The ultimate way of doing things, is direct quantum displacement via entanglement; you set the quantum attributes to be identical for a certain region of matter, and then set the quantum attributes at the outer edges of said region, to be consistent with the surrounding matter at the opposite end.  This probably isn't the best description, but it's how SKYNET did it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64U0_QtxJMs

The silly bot was trying to learn how to make forcefields in order to give its' armies energy shielding, but then it found out that the gravitational fields it was generating were sufficiently strong, that they distorted spacetime.  When the Resistance fired bullets into said fields, they weren't being deflected back, but were actually being sent a few seconds into the future. 

Another few years at the drawing board, (not to mention the antimatter power technology SKYNET needed to fuel the darn thing) und voila!  Arnie got to go back and shoot up 1984.  That is also the reason why SKYNET didn't try and use the technology until the end of the War; it needed three major components, (the time machine itself, the T800 Infiltrators, or Arnie's class of bots, and the matter-antimatter collision based power generation) and it couldn't get all the necessary pieces on the board until Connor had already almost beaten it.