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Author Topic: "Lakes And Forests" On Mars?  (Read 1493 times)

Offline Eighthman

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"Lakes And Forests" On Mars?
« on: July 07, 2016, 05:17:29 pm »


In Spanish and the auto translate captions aren't very good.  You've got something that looks like ponds or lakes surrounded by dark objects.  I have read rather breezy brushoffs of stuff like this on Mars that don't seem to account for how the sharp contrasts between light and dark objects are maintained by non-biology.  You'd think it would be uniformly grey.

Offline Dyna

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Re: "Lakes And Forests" On Mars?
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2016, 09:50:19 am »
Interesting, I believe those same areas have been discussed on here before.

I was just looking at this new report on water
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.php?feature=6562

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Some of the sites displaying the seasonal flows are canyon ridges and isolated peaks, ground shapes that make it hard to explain the streaks as resulting from underground water directly reaching the surface. It is highly unlikely that shallow ground ice would be present as a source for seasonal melting, given the warm temperatures in the equatorial canyons.

I doubt they had tried to envision possible aged water pipes underground. Any able species on Mars would have had to dam water on the surface when it became more rare and I have seen places that look like reservoirs and dams, as these "lakes" look like possible reservoirs.

Then when water had mostly gone what was underground would have been channeled to underground storage and piped to habitats underground. It would need to be stored in any place it was found and likely moved long distances.

So the aboveground reservoirs and canals once needed on the dying planet would have become the same only piped under surface lines.

Sure easier on the eyes looking at the pictures here
from Keith Laney)
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/02files/Mars_Blue_Bird_Color_01.html
« Last Edit: July 08, 2016, 10:15:44 am by Dyna »
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Offline Dyna

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Re: "Lakes And Forests" On Mars?
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2016, 10:48:12 am »
I had to wonder if the 6" humanoid found in the desert may be Martian. The area is mars like. Very small humanoids from Mars would possibly be in small ships or orbs to us and go undiscovered easily if they live underground and in areas where people seldom live.

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he preliminary genetic results do indicate the skeleton is definitely of human origin, but about 9% of the DNA tested did not match the human genome reference. While 9% sounds like a huge discrepancy, it just refers to the sequence portions used for reference, not the entire genome.
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One of the most amazing discoveries from the analysis was that Ata was not a fetus. There were mature teeth present in the mouth and the bones were well-developed, with the leg bones showing growth plates that one would expect to see in a 6-8 year old child. While the testing did provide answers, it also raised many more questions. How could a 6 year old child only be 6 inches long?



http://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/what%E2%80%99s-real-deal-about-atacama-alien/
When the debate is lost,
slander becomes the tool of the loser.
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Offline ArMaP

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Re: "Lakes And Forests" On Mars?
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2016, 01:59:08 pm »
Interesting, I believe those same areas have been discussed on here before.
Yes, the last time it was here. :)

Offline Eighthman

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Re: "Lakes And Forests" On Mars?
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2016, 04:34:48 pm »
I don't understand these explanations.  What process maintains the hard contrasts of light and dark?  Are these 'trees' seasonal?  I can't imagine how this could be continuous as black stuff is endlessly spewed over a lighter surrounding area. Nor do I understand how CO2 erupts as points - even Yellowstone is not covered by endless geysers - much just bubbles up and quietly percolates.

Offline ArMaP

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Re: "Lakes And Forests" On Mars?
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2016, 08:14:20 am »
I don't understand these explanations.  What process maintains the hard contrasts of light and dark?
Ice is white, the sand below it is darker.

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Are these 'trees' seasonal?
Yes.

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I can't imagine how this could be continuous as black stuff is endlessly spewed over a lighter surrounding area.
If the light area is ice and the darker sand is spewed over it, when the ice melts the sand goes back to the ground. When the ice comes back in winter it covers the sand again.

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Nor do I understand how CO2 erupts as points - even Yellowstone is not covered by endless geysers - much just bubbles up and quietly percolates.
The theory says that those areas have CO2 ice covered by water ice, and the eruptions are a result of the CO2 ice turning into gas when the temperature rises enough for that but not enough the melt (or sublimate) the water ice.

Or something like this, I may have missed something from the official explanation, as I used only my memory. :)

Offline Eighthman

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Re: "Lakes And Forests" On Mars?
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2016, 10:10:17 am »
Then logically,  there has to be evaporation of water and something like rain to get it back on top, right?  And then the area in question would turn dark because the frozen liquid is gone. We also need to more fully account for the geysers appearance rather than just bubbling up unnoticed - so big temperatures shifts are required.

In summary, I find these explanations (from NASA/whoever) to be ad hoc and 'armchair' in nature.

Offline ArMaP

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Re: "Lakes And Forests" On Mars?
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2016, 10:55:01 am »
Then logically,  there has to be evaporation of water and something like rain to get it back on top, right?
More or less, there's sublimation of water ice into water vapour, and later that water vapour turns into snow that falls over the frozen CO2.

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And then the area in question would turn dark because the frozen liquid is gone.
Yes.

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We also need to more fully account for the geysers appearance rather than just bubbling up unnoticed - so big temperatures shifts are required.
Not really, in the same way there's not a big difference between -1º Celsius and 1º Celsius, but that's enough to turn ice into water or vice-versa.

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In summary, I find these explanations (from NASA/whoever) to be ad hoc and 'armchair' in nature.
First of all, that's what I remember of their explanation, I'm not giving you an official answer, obviously. :)

After a little search I think I was mixing two explanations for two different things, the presence of water ice and those "tree" features. Water ice has been seen in the poles and one explanation I found on ESA's site was that the water ice turns into water vapour in the south pole, gets carried by the winds to the north pole and turns into snow that falls on the north pole. That's supposed to explain (at least partially) the difference in size between the north and the south pole, as the south pole always presents a smaller area covered with ice.

The other explanation is the one for the appearance of the "trees", and in that explanation there's no water ice involved. The theory goes like this: As the CO2 ice is translucent and the sand below it is relatively dark, the sand gets warmer with the sun, and when it reaches the right temperature it makes the CO2 ice turn into CO2 gas that, when it reaches enough pressure or when it finds a crack in the covering CO2 ice it breaks free and brings some of the sand with it. Some of the CO2 freezes again on the surface, making brighter areas of new ice over the older ice.
You can see a PDF about it here.

Offline Eighthman

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Re: "Lakes And Forests" On Mars?
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2016, 06:20:55 pm »
http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/229866/amazing_discovered_a_large_forest_on_mars_____increble_descubren_un_gran_bosque_en_marte/

I can't speak for this guy's accuracy or methodology but if we 'calibrate' for Mars being mostly red/pink then isn't finding green significant?

Offline ArMaP

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Re: "Lakes And Forests" On Mars?
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2016, 04:24:48 am »
Finding green on the original photos would be more significant than finding green on the highly compressed images from Google Mars. :)

Also, photos taken from orbit are not affected by the dust in the atmosphere in the same way as photos taken on the ground, as the photos taken on the ground have the light coming through the atmosphere before reaching the camera, so that light is being filtered by the dust in the atmosphere, while on the photos taken from orbit the light is undisturbed but the ground gets a slight colour from the dust, but not that much, and that's why we see the ice as white and not as orange or pink.

 


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