collapse

Author Topic: Mandalay: The biggest shooting since Columbine.  (Read 22340 times)

Offline petrus4

  • Iconoclast
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2373
  • Gold 623
Re: Mandalay: The biggest shooting since Columbine.
« Reply #105 on: February 17, 2018, 09:25:28 am »
To recap, the main reason why I think there must at least have been multiple shooters at Mandalay, (whether or not it was necessarily false flag) is because I can't see a 55 to 60 year old man carrying an M60 machine gun around by himself for extended periods.  They are a big enough gun that at times they have been tripod mounted; and not only that, they are very much a military weapon.  The ATF only allows Americans to apparently own them in semi-automatic form.

In my mind, if a civilian was truly going to do something like this, but still wanted a machine gun, then the AK-47 makes a lot more sense, for multiple reasons.

a}  According to Wikipedia, an AK-47 weighs 3.47 kg.  The M-60 weighs 10.5 kg, which is almost three times the AK's weight.  A heavier gun translates very directly into reduced mobility.  That means it will take more time to move, which in turn increases the likelihood that the user will be caught by the police, and it also increases the odds of fatigue.  At 41 years of age and in considerably less than optimal fitness, I do not like carrying weights of more than probably 3-4 kg for extended periods of time.  A 55 year old is presumably going to be much less enthusiastic about carrying a 10 kg firearm than I would be.

b}  The AK uses (relatively) almost the same size of ammunition; 7.62x39mm.  The M60 uses 7.62x51mm.

c}  While it is true that the AK has a much slower rate of fire, it can still fire bursts at 600 rounds per minute.  Additionally, this slower rate of fire would make the weapon easier to obtain legally, and would presumably be incrementally less likely to arouse suspicion.  (In America, at least; anywhere else it would still cause hysteria on the part of the authorities)

To me, the use of the M60 was a possible flaw on the part of whoever orchestrated this, assuming that we are talking about someone affiliated with the government who wanted the public to believe that a civilian was behind it.  As far as maximising casualties is concerned, yes, the M60 makes sense; but that is quite literally the only reason why it does.  The AK would presumably be marginally less effective in such a crowd, but said lesser effectiveness would be offset by its' weight and legality advantages, as mentioned.
"Sacred cows make the tastiest hamburgers."
        — Abbie Hoffman

Offline ArMaP

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13169
  • Gold 770
Re: Mandalay: The biggest shooting since Columbine.
« Reply #106 on: February 17, 2018, 11:59:55 am »
Where did you get the M60 from? ???

He had 14 AR-15s (around 3 Kg), 8 AR-10s (between 3 and 4 Kg), a Ruger American bolt-action rifle (around 3 Kg) and a Smith & Wesson .38 revolver.

Offline petrus4

  • Iconoclast
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2373
  • Gold 623
Re: Mandalay: The biggest shooting since Columbine.
« Reply #107 on: February 17, 2018, 09:54:11 pm »
Why would he need that many guns, Armap?
"Sacred cows make the tastiest hamburgers."
        — Abbie Hoffman

Offline ArMaP

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13169
  • Gold 770
Re: Mandalay: The biggest shooting since Columbine.
« Reply #108 on: February 18, 2018, 06:59:15 am »
Why would he need that many guns, Armap?
I don't know, but that doesn't answer my question: where did you get the M60 from?

Offline petrus4

  • Iconoclast
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2373
  • Gold 623
Re: Mandalay: The biggest shooting since Columbine.
« Reply #109 on: February 18, 2018, 08:48:05 am »
I don't know, but that doesn't answer my question: where did you get the M60 from?

Mostly from the sound from some of the footage I saw; it was pretty much identical.  It was a much deeper, lower pitched sound than I was expecting from bullets.  I haven't heard a lot of gunfire but what I have heard usually sounds like loud cracking.  This was different, and the rhythm is the same as what I've seen from videos with an M60 firing as well.
"Sacred cows make the tastiest hamburgers."
        — Abbie Hoffman

Offline ArMaP

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13169
  • Gold 770
Re: Mandalay: The biggest shooting since Columbine.
« Reply #110 on: February 18, 2018, 11:50:28 am »
I'm far from a specialist in this area, but the first thing I noticed on the videos from the Las Vegas shooting was that the fire rate was irregular, and that doesn't happen with an M60, it has a very steady rate of fire (from what I could see/ear in the videos).

Do we have someone used to how an M60 and an AR-15 sound in here? :)

Offline spacemaverick

  • The Roundtable
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1781
  • Gold 373
  • A fantastic journey begins with curiosity
Re: Mandalay: The biggest shooting since Columbine.
« Reply #111 on: February 18, 2018, 01:20:45 pm »
I have fired an M60 in the army.  Listening to the firing, it sounded more like the M16 I fired in the army.  They now in the civilian sector call them AR-15's.  If they fire a 5.56 NATO round which has more of a louder sound than a civilian .223 round, then that would only partially account for the different sound.  He could have changed the bolt to where he could fire .22 caliber rounds.  .22 caliber rounds are much cheaper and are more plentiful and can do enough damage to a body, to render it dead or severely wounded.
 The .223 or 5.56 NATO round when it hits bone will flatten out and tumble like a razor blade in the body.  The other variables are videos taken from different positions amongst buildings, will give you different echo's bouncing off the different structures.  People taking videos are at varying distances and in different positions will increase the variables, hence the different sounds.  The maximum EFFECTIVE range is 400 meters for the M-16 or AR-15.  He could have had a bump stock or even a crank attached to the trigger to make it like an automatic.  He could also pull the trigger very fast which could sound like automatic fire.

Having worked armed security after my stints in the military, law enforcement/corrections and then armed security...security outside the military and corrections is a joke her in the states.  That is a whole different story in itself.
From the past into the future any way I can...Educating...informing....guiding.

Offline The Seeker

  • grouchy, old, but inquisitive...
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3757
  • Gold 426
  • The one-armed Bandit
Re: Mandalay: The biggest shooting since Columbine.
« Reply #112 on: February 18, 2018, 02:31:52 pm »
Do not overlook the fact that several rifles were reported to be AR-10's, which fire 7.62x51 (.308 Winchester) the same as an M60...
Look closely: See clearly: Think deeply; and Choose wisely...
Trolls are crunchy and good with ketchup...
Seekers Domain

Offline spacemaverick

  • The Roundtable
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1781
  • Gold 373
  • A fantastic journey begins with curiosity
Re: Mandalay: The biggest shooting since Columbine.
« Reply #113 on: February 18, 2018, 02:40:59 pm »
Do not overlook the fact that several rifles were reported to be AR-10's, which fire 7.62x51 (.308 Winchester) the same as an M60...

Yeah, I forgot to mention those also.  7.62 are messy but very effective...
From the past into the future any way I can...Educating...informing....guiding.

Offline The Seeker

  • grouchy, old, but inquisitive...
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3757
  • Gold 426
  • The one-armed Bandit
Re: Mandalay: The biggest shooting since Columbine.
« Reply #114 on: February 18, 2018, 08:48:25 pm »
I would say very effective, mav: I have fired an M60 before, and with military ball ammo the .308 is very lethal at 1,000 yards...
Look closely: See clearly: Think deeply; and Choose wisely...
Trolls are crunchy and good with ketchup...
Seekers Domain

Offline fansongecho

  • We search by night and day -
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 690
  • Gold 31
  • Check.. Check-6
Re: Mandalay: The biggest shooting since Columbine.
« Reply #115 on: May 17, 2018, 04:35:09 am »
Has there been anything Stateside that updates the official / unofficial narrative to this event folks? 

I recently saw some YouTube conspiracy links about the Saudia Arabia purge of Princes and succession to the SA thrown, also some YT on 3 x Helicopters involved but I couldn't make head nor tail of the motive they were pushing for this, and I wondered if you guys/gals had been following any other theories and leads?

Cheers,
Fans'

Offline ArMaP

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13169
  • Gold 770
Re: Mandalay: The biggest shooting since Columbine.
« Reply #116 on: May 17, 2018, 12:50:42 pm »
Has there been anything Stateside that updates the official / unofficial narrative to this event folks?
Maybe this?


Offline fansongecho

  • We search by night and day -
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 690
  • Gold 31
  • Check.. Check-6
Re: Mandalay: The biggest shooting since Columbine.
« Reply #117 on: May 17, 2018, 02:17:21 pm »
Is there a link missing ArMap on your reply?? or where you being obtuse buddy?

Offline ArMaP

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13169
  • Gold 770
Re: Mandalay: The biggest shooting since Columbine.
« Reply #118 on: May 17, 2018, 02:19:46 pm »
The link is there, I just clicked it. ???

Click "quote" to see if it shows it.

Offline spacemaverick

  • The Roundtable
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1781
  • Gold 373
  • A fantastic journey begins with curiosity
From the past into the future any way I can...Educating...informing....guiding.

 


Wal-Mart.com USA, LLC
affiliate_link
Free Click Tracking
Wal-Mart.com USA, LLC

* Recent Posts

Re: kits to feed your family for a year by Shasta56
[March 17, 2024, 12:40:48 pm]


Re: kits to feed your family for a year by space otter
[March 16, 2024, 08:45:27 pm]


Re: kits to feed your family for a year by Shasta56
[March 16, 2024, 07:24:38 pm]


Re: kits to feed your family for a year by space otter
[March 16, 2024, 10:41:21 am]


Re: Full Interview - Lance Corporal Jonathan Weygandt (1997) by RUSSO
[March 12, 2024, 07:22:56 pm]


Re: Full Interview - Lance Corporal Jonathan Weygandt (1997) by RUSSO
[March 09, 2024, 03:25:56 am]


Re: Full Interview - Lance Corporal Jonathan Weygandt (1997) by RUSSO
[March 09, 2024, 02:33:38 am]


Re: Music You Love by RUSSO
[March 09, 2024, 01:10:22 am]


Re: The Man Who Built UFOs For The CIA (Not Bob Lazar!) by RUSSO
[March 09, 2024, 12:14:14 am]


Re: Full Interview - Lance Corporal Jonathan Weygandt (1997) by RUSSO
[March 09, 2024, 12:08:46 am]


Re: A peculiar stone in DeForest by Canine
[March 03, 2024, 11:54:22 am]


Re: The Man Who Built UFOs For The CIA (Not Bob Lazar!) by kevin
[March 03, 2024, 11:30:06 am]


Re: The Man Who Built UFOs For The CIA (Not Bob Lazar!) by kevin
[March 03, 2024, 11:21:15 am]


Re: The Man Who Built UFOs For The CIA (Not Bob Lazar!) by kevin
[March 03, 2024, 11:16:05 am]


Re: Music You Love by RUSSO
[March 02, 2024, 07:58:09 pm]


Re: Full Interview - Lance Corporal Jonathan Weygandt (1997) by RUSSO
[March 02, 2024, 07:50:59 pm]


Re: The Man Who Built UFOs For The CIA (Not Bob Lazar!) by RUSSO
[March 02, 2024, 07:43:03 pm]


Re: The Man Who Built UFOs For The CIA (Not Bob Lazar!) by RUSSO
[March 02, 2024, 07:41:30 pm]


Re: The Man Who Built UFOs For The CIA (Not Bob Lazar!) by kevin
[March 01, 2024, 11:54:23 am]


Re: The Man Who Built UFOs For The CIA (Not Bob Lazar!) by kevin
[March 01, 2024, 11:34:15 am]

affiliate_link