Pegasus Research Consortium

General Category => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: zorgon on June 24, 2012, 02:11:59 pm

Title: The Gold Ring
Post by: zorgon on June 24, 2012, 02:11:59 pm
The Gold Ring

(http://costumeplayercatalog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/lotr.jpg)

Last night Deuem asked a question that seems to have been ignored, but its one others have asked me so I will put it out there


It has been said that Electrogravitics has been suppressed...

Yet even grade school kids with a fewm bucks can build a lifter and send a mouse aloft...

So once we have the principle of building these things...

WHY is there not one scientist who has made a bigger one?

The fact that we can build our own lifters using the BB Effect means that knowledge is readily available to the public, yet we have no large man size transport

So the question is WHY?

In an email to a researcher written by my nemesis Dr Hal Puthoff, he wrote;

"At this point I do not think T.T. Brown's results were a demonstration of anomalous gravity effects," he wrote. "Talking to him just before he died, he did not encourage me to follow up on this, as the effect was so weak...."

  Puthoff, who is probably best known for his pioneering, CIA-sponsored research into the technique of "remote viewing," went on to describe two attempts to replicate Townsend Brown's research, one of which he had conducted. Both were unsuccessful, he said.

  "The only remaining possibility is that in our various replication attempts none of us have gone as high in voltage as Brown did, so there is a small possibility of non-linear effects at higher voltages," Puthoff wrote. "It's a judgment call."

So we want answers...

...we want that Gold Ring



Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: sky otter on June 24, 2012, 02:19:09 pm


ok..call me nutzo

but when i read this
our various replication attempts none of us have gone as high in voltage  
i could hear very loudly the word SILVER

i guess now i have to go see how you make one of these things
crap..
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Amaterasu on June 24, 2012, 02:57:56 pm
Well...  Considering all the SUCCESSES My father told Me of before it went black...  I KNOW it works - and works well, with the right parameters.  Puthoff is clearly being used as a putoff.

If I had the bucks, You know I'd be all over it like, how was that put elsewhere on the board?, like white on rice!
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: zorgon on June 24, 2012, 02:59:45 pm
i guess now i have to go see how you make one of these things

No problem  have plans :D

Start with a basic model...

How to build and replicate yourself the Lifter1 Experiment

(http://jnaudin.free.fr/images/lifter1dg.gif)

(http://jnaudin.free.fr/images/pliftst1.jpg)

(http://jnaudin.free.fr/images/pliftst2.jpg)

(http://jnaudin.free.fr/images/pliftst3.jpg)

(http://jnaudin.free.fr/images/pliftst4.jpg)

(http://jnaudin.free.fr/images/pliftst5.jpg)

(http://jnaudin.free.fr/images/pliftst6.jpg)

(http://jnaudin.free.fr/images/pliftst7.jpg)

Your Lifter1 is now ready for testing, you need only to connect a HV power supply which is able to give about 30-40 KV at 500uA. Th HV positive pole is connected to the thin wire and the negative pole to the aluminum sheet.

SOURCE: JLN LABS (http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/lftbld.htm)

BE CAREFUL, USE EXTREME CAUTION !!!, this device use High Voltage, ALWAYS switch off the input and discharge the output to the ground through 10k/2W resistor before touch it. These plans are not intended for the inexperienced. User of this document should be very careful and experienced in High-Voltage electronics to try anything out ! If you do it the risk of any results is just yours. I take no responsibility of anything that might happen.

Ready to Launch ? see below :

(http://jnaudin.free.fr/images/plift1e.jpg)

The Lifter1 works very well with a simple 30KV power supply. It is also possible to use the THT power supply output from an old PC Color monitor

(http://jnaudin.free.fr/images/lftpcmon.jpg)

Reprinted from JLN Labs

[youtube]_-VUGAwpVEI[/youtube]
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: zorgon on June 24, 2012, 03:05:51 pm
If I had the bucks, You know I'd be all over it like, how was that put elsewhere on the board?, like white on rice!

Well its okay because the 8th grade kiddies are doing it :D

But I did find it interesting that Hal said TT Brown TOLD him to forget about it


Lifter Movie for 8th grade science project

[youtube]ZgcSdabSb2w[/youtube]

Now surely will all the brains we have here, all the tech we have here, and all the original notes we have hear...

...surely we can build a bigger flying boat, yes? I have a few spare bucks I can sink into such a project :D

To day a mouse... tomorrow a ferret next week... a trip to the Moon :D
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: sky otter on June 24, 2012, 03:07:59 pm

do ya think an old portable fence charger would work?.. i have those

and this is what we told the kids as they ran toward the temp fences

 If you do it the risk of any results is just yours. I take no responsibility of anything that might happen.

they only got zapped once...the horse learned faster..lol


so i guess if this has been done so often.. what is the next step.. as this works

i'm still puzzled by the silver thing..hummmmmmmmmm

Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: zorgon on June 24, 2012, 03:14:04 pm
so i guess if this has been done so often.. what is the next step.. as this works

Yes it works but its on WIRES with an OUTSIDE power supply :D

No one has made one yet that can carry any real weight let alone its own power supply

Maybe we need an HE3 (helium 3) levitating dipole fusion confinement unit :D Those babies are safer than HV transformers

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/41pegasus/04images/UFO_Tech/ldx_mov.gif)

Maybe I can steal... errr borrow one from MIT  8)
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: sky otter on June 24, 2012, 03:18:52 pm
 ;)

ah
maybe a different approach
onto meditation - levitation..
 maybe a call to Uri
or
some of those orange robed monks that keep warm in the wet clothes

borrowing sounds like a fine plan..you need a look out? ;D
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: zorgon on June 24, 2012, 03:24:46 pm
notice anything about that unit?

The torus is a Gold Ring

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-3D9Uik0yV44/TuXQq32DaZI/AAAAAAAAAcg/vVQo08RXk3o/s1600/T1800070-Fusion_research%252C_levitated_torus-magnet-SPL.jpg)

Keep yer EG I will put my money on clean fusion tech :D. I hear there is enough on the Moon to power the planet for 100,000 years :D
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Linda Brown on June 24, 2012, 03:57:24 pm
That's an interesting quote Zorgon from Puthoff

"At this point I do not think T.T. Brown's results were a demonstration of anomalous gravity effects," he wrote. "Talking to him just before he died, he did not encourage me to follow up on this, as the effect was so weak...."

" Talking to him just before he died. My Dad talked to very few people " just before he died.... except perhaps the people he may have met during that mysterious last trip off of the Island. Was your Puthoff one of them? That would make interesting company considering that"Morgan" met him on the landing side in Long Beach and accompanied him for the entire trip.... bringing him back several days later and making sure that he got on the last helicopter safely.

I had never caught that.... that Puthoff himself said that. That's interesting and probably will be worth looking into at the time.....

And the man was going home to disconnect all of his sensors..... and die. Why should he encourage anyone to do anything that they hadn't already done. I would have been disgusted with the lot of them too, frankly.

Especially when they were told the parameters of the experiments and then willfully underpowered it for their own purposes.... so that they could then say that the BB effect was ineffective. I would agree with them too. Why not.   Linda

Linda
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: hobbit on June 24, 2012, 04:59:19 pm
http://science.trigunamedia.com/anu-of-theosophy/UltimateAtom.htm

IMHO the ANU as first described By Leadbeater is an accurate description of the golden ring of creation.
It is directly connected to larger self similer ANU that provide the required inputs and outputs that enable this to operate.
IMHO is ...In My Hobbit Opinion

And I can detect this system with ease , and can measure and plot it's directionality.
You the reader are ANU, it's just that it resides in 4D. which your 3D detectors don't see, thus it's invisable.
IMHO,
So called flying saucers are ANU with the ability to utilise huge amounts of the inputs and outputs, and to vary those directionally.
Given enough such inputs they trip into 4D, and thus blink out.
They blink out of any 3D detectors abilities.
hobbit
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on June 24, 2012, 05:02:18 pm
I do agree with you Linda, that the voltage is key, and not many folks have the equipment to generate a million volts, or even 40kv.

Of course my personal opinion is that the BB effect is caused by what I call interdimensional shifting, and not capacitive thrust, whereas the lifter shifts to a dimension slightly askew from its original takeoff point, but Im no physicist, so Ill stick with what I know for sure here..;)

A flame jet generator would be key to powering the lifter array that would be useful as Zorgon says, for a transport, or such, but where I would look is into a concentric circle design, or a toroid as Zorgon suggested, with lifters within lifters. Flame jets can make upwards of 15 million volts, and are somewhat easy to build with a good shop and some money.

The only lifter Ive built was like naudins and it worked perfectly and after that we moved on to some magnetic devices, and solid state stuff from the JLN site, so lifters took a back seat.

Now, I do like the thought of a torus, but the material would have to be super light and highly conductive...gold foil perhaps? Wrapped around a cylindrical foam core?Silver foil as Sky has posed maybe?

Maybe its time to look at a toroidal lifter, eh? and maybe it is time to build a flame jet generator to power it, and looking if there is something to that torus after all, seeing as how it is the building block of life itself...at least Foster Gamble and Haramein think so!:D

Anybody got a fat checkbook laying around? Have tools will travel! :) :) :)

Cheers!
Littleenki
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on June 24, 2012, 06:12:23 pm
http://science.trigunamedia.com/anu-of-theosophy/UltimateAtom.htm

IMHO the ANU as first described By Leadbeater is an accurate description of the golden ring of creation.
It is directly connected to larger self similer ANU that provide the required inputs and outputs that enable this to operate.
IMHO is ...In My Hobbit Opinion

And I can detect this system with ease , and can measure and plot it's directionality.
You the reader are ANU, it's just that it resides in 4D. which your 3D detectors don't see, thus it's invisable.
IMHO,
So called flying saucers are ANU with the ability to utilise huge amounts of the inputs and outputs, and to vary those directionally.
Given enough such inputs they trip into 4D, and thus blink out.
They blink out of any 3D detectors abilities.
hobbit

Indeed, Hobbit
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eg0vyUkDJ_g[/youtube]

Le
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: 1Worldwatcher on June 24, 2012, 06:33:11 pm
notice anything about that unit?

The torus is a Gold Ring

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-3D9Uik0yV44/TuXQq32DaZI/AAAAAAAAAcg/vVQo08RXk3o/s1600/T1800070-Fusion_research%252C_levitated_torus-magnet-SPL.jpg)

Keep yer EG I will put my money on clean fusion tech :D. I hear there is enough on the Moon to power the planet for 100,000 years :D

Yes,the contained glow with in the inner rings and the similarity of the structure would be compared to what the Magnetosphere would look like by modeled perceptions, very interesting Zorgon.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Linda Brown on June 24, 2012, 06:36:20 pm
The Gold Ring

(http://costumeplayercatalog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/lotr.jpg)

Last night Deuem asked a question that seems to have been ignored, but its one others have asked me so I will put it out there


It has been said that Electrogravitics has been suppressed...

Yet even grade school kids with a fewm bucks can build a lifter and send a mouse aloft... They are not using electrogravitics. .... they are using electrohydrodynamics...(EHD).. its NOT exactly the same thing. And if you don't know the difference then perhaps it is wise that all you can do is take a little mouse for a ride.So once we have the principle of building these things...

WHY is there not one scientist who has made a bigger one? Why do that?
The fact that we can build our own lifters using the BB Effect means that knowledge is readily available to the public, yet we have no large man size transport

So the question is WHY? Because again these writers are missing out on the basic and general concept. You are not looking at the BB effect when you are looking at a fan loudspeaker or a lifter ( though I adore both)... and they are " related but not the same thing. Because most think that they are..... they are still wondering why they do not have a mansized transport. You have to understand the beast first.

In an email to a researcher written by my nemesis Dr Hal Puthoff, he wrote;

"At this point I do not think T.T. Brown's results were a demonstration of anomalous gravity effects," he wrote. "Talking to him just before he died, he did not encourage me to follow up on this, as the effect was so weak...." And my Dad was sick at the time, dying in fact and he was probably thinking that your " Nemisis" was a dullard  that should have understood the principles a very long time ago. If I had been in my Dads shoes I wouldn't have had much time for him either

 Puthoff, who is probably best known for his pioneering, CIA-sponsored research into the technique of "remote viewing," went on to describe two attempts to replicate Townsend Brown's research, one of which he had conducted. Both were unsuccessful, he said.

Yeah well.... Forgive me.... but those two fields have had a hard time interacting successfully anyway. Even now its difficult  "The only remaining possibility is that in our various replication attempts none of us have gone as high in voltage as Brown did, so there is a small possibility of non-linear effects at higher voltages," Puthoff wrote. "It's a judgment call."

So we want answers... How about this. for a "Judgement call"... Learn what electrogravitics actually is.... and then ask the proper questions!...we want that Gold Ring

And its waiting for the person who understands how to look at a "carnival ride" and see it for what it actually is.... Nothing less than that will win it.

And Zorgon.... I am not being impatient with you. Its Puthoff that can get my goat sometimes. Sorry. Old joke.   Linda
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on June 24, 2012, 07:11:49 pm
notice anything about that unit?

The torus is a Gold Ring

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-3D9Uik0yV44/TuXQq32DaZI/AAAAAAAAAcg/vVQo08RXk3o/s1600/T1800070-Fusion_research%252C_levitated_torus-magnet-SPL.jpg)

Keep yer EG I will put my money on clean fusion tech :D. I hear there is enough on the Moon to power the planet for 100,000 years :D

What I notice about that image, is the rings around the torus arent wound like a coil, but independent of each other. as they may represent the vectors created by the filed around the torus, I wonder why they are depicted as gold wires, or....Gold Rings.

Another thing I dont know if anyone here noticed, is that the JLN lifter design, is basically a flying electrohydrodynamic fan/loudspeaker.

Lifters as a drone communication device?

I have designed a EHD speaker that is shaped like a pyramid, so anything goes I guess.
Drawing to come.....

As far as Eg versus fusion, Zorgon, was that a silly, or a serious? ;)

Im not familiar with H3 except that someone said the moon is full of it once.

Just a thought...:D
Littleenki
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Mikado on June 24, 2012, 08:21:10 pm
Zorgon,

Jumping in here with a few thoughts. I see you are talking lifters and the question arises - are lifters really a demonstration of the BB effect?

The answer is yes and no.

A lifter is essentially EHD (ElectroHydroDynamics). It is lifted by ion wind but it also has an EG component. It is also an asymmetric capacitor.

Think of it as an ionic breeze that is light enough to move.

The Biefeld-Brown effect states that the negative pole will always chase the positive. Reverse the leads on a lifter, it will still lift.

Just a few thoughts,

Mikado

Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Shasta56 on June 24, 2012, 08:35:46 pm
This is all very interesting.  For my part, I will leave the lifter building to people who don't have track record of trying to set the house on fire, and a baker's dozen of curious felines to boot.  I don't want to be on national news.

Shasta
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: burntheships on June 24, 2012, 09:15:18 pm
I don't want to be on national news.

 ;) Yes, we would not want to go missing
such as Ning Li...

Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: 1Worldwatcher on June 24, 2012, 09:28:12 pm
Zorgon,
Jumping in here with a few thoughts. I see you are talking lifters and the question arises - are lifters really a demonstration of the BB effect?
The answer is yes and no.
A lifter is essentially EHD (ElectroHydroDynamics). It is lifted by ion wind but it also has an EG component. It is also an asymmetric capacitor.
Think of it as an ionic breeze that is light enough to move.
The Biefeld-Brown effect states that the negative pole will always chase the positive. Reverse the leads on a lifter, it will still lift.
Just a few thoughts,
Mikado

Yes we are aware of the Ionization winds Mikado, being's this is your forte, what would you suppose as a device of similar low input and high out put yields in this case?
Am very curious too hear your take on suchthing's being problematic or possible.
Thanks for your educated assessment.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Mikado on June 24, 2012, 10:16:05 pm
Yes we are aware of the Ionization winds Mikado, being's this is your forte, what would you suppose as a device of similar low input and high out put yields in this case?

At this point, from available data, I would say that the device would not be a lifter. At this time, I would say a Gravitor based upon data I have collected so far.

Am very curious too hear your take on suchthing's being problematic or possible.
Thanks for your educated assessment.

Could you expand on this a bit more. I don't want to assume your questions meaning.

Mikado
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Pimander on June 25, 2012, 05:12:13 am
The torus is a Gold Ring
ORMEs?  White Powder Gold.  At high temperatures they have been shown to have negative mass (i.e. levitate).

This needs a thread. ::)

P.S. ORMEs: Orbitally Rearranged Monatomic Elements.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on June 25, 2012, 05:43:35 am
This is all very interesting.  For my part, I will leave the lifter building to people who don't have track record of trying to set the house on fire, and a baker's dozen of curious felines to boot.  I don't want to be on national news.

Shasta

You can do it! as that guy in the waterboy said!

What I found dangerous about lifters is the tiny wires are so flimsy, if they arent supported well, they will drop or swing around easily, and the hands need to be well clear! ZZZZAP!
With a bit of vigilance when doing the setup, as you see it's ok for an 8th grade class.

What would worry me if a bigger lifter was constructed, would be the temporal effects it might cause, and if you look at that lesson above on Naudin's site, youll see it's called the transdimensional lifter project, and that says it all.

Transdimensional is defined as: being able to transcend more than one dimension at once, like space and time, relating to inter and extradimensional travel.

For some his site is fun and easy to read, but it is full of innuendo and suggestive ideas, cloaked in simple words, and the person who goes there can enjoy a bit of amazing reading, or have themselves shoved down the rabbit hole tenfold, when they see what really happens during certain free energy experiements.

Most engineering minds just dont get it, and look for obvious answers to their problems with their specific experiment, but those who look deeper will find a treasure trove of hidden Gold Rings on every page!

I have.

http://jnaudin.free.fr/

Naudin hasnt done much lately, and thats because he may have found the key, and now he's not willing to share it as much. It's ok, we might not be ready for it.

Check this one out...

http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/tepprinc.htm

This abstract is for a device to use time differentials...whoa...what?..to create free energy.

So what happens when a lifter lifts? More than meets the eye...hence transdimensional.

Now, why would he call it that?

I hope you build one now Shasta, as it really is a little time machine!:D

Just keep the cats away!:D

Cheers
Littleenki
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: 1Worldwatcher on June 25, 2012, 06:13:00 am
At this point, from available data, I would say that the device would not be a lifter. At this time, I would say a Gravitor based upon data I have collected so far.

So, there are such things as gravitator's that are capable of producing low input high yield results then? Do these devices, or are these devices accessable with mere layman's garage tools? Could we , as a group build such a thing with little too no cost?

Quote
Could you expand on this a bit more. I don't want to assume your questions meaning.
Mikado

With the "Gold Ring" theory, and the mention of "White Gold" properties by Pimander being Neg. G substance, do you think there is feasible applications for someone such as our selves to produce a flux that would change the properties of the gravitational fields to a negative state, or repulsion state?
Boyd Bushman had given a fine example for how certain materials seem to interact with each other that do seem to be repulsing the gravity effect, with Mr. Bushman's credentials and with explanation of the effect, it is seemingly not only "Possible" but "Practical" for applications of such a nature. Mr. Bushman had initially used simple common pipes to give his experiment visual life, one conductive the other nonconductive, with a magnetic steel ball bearing, he put it to the test, as the Bearing fell through the nonconductive tube, it was 4X's slower too fall through than with he conductive, this allows me to accept that there is something to consider as far as materials and expenditures for such a venture of creating an antigravity effect.
And do you believe , there is in fact, such a thing as Antigravity and that we currently understand it?

1Wordlwatcher
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on June 25, 2012, 06:30:28 am
Mornin' 1WW,

The magnet through the copper pipe is an effect that occurs due to the eddy currents of the magnet interacting with the pipe's conductive nature.

It also is one of the core principles as to how a searl generator works, in my opinion.

Heres a link to describe that effect, and its pretty easy stuff to understand as this page is called the kitchen sink!

http://www.thenakedscientists.com/HTML/content/kitchenscience/garage-science/exp/mysterious-forces-eddy-currents/

How it applies here, isnt clear but of course, many things arent as they seem!

Cheers 1WW, have a great week ahead!
Littleenki
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on June 25, 2012, 06:39:51 am
Now, ORME is a slighly different cat to feed, and it's where the normal understanding of the universe goes awry.

Millenia ago, it was said that numerous energy devices operated on ORME gold, and it was an alchemist's secret how to make it. Heck even some have theorized the giza pyramid was a giant ORME creator, and was what the Egyptians used to gain powers they had.

Heres a phrase from the Halexandria site which has the most comprehensive listing of ORME based knowledge:

ORME


The ORME -- related to Star Fire, and also known as The Philosopher’s Stone, the Elixir of Life, the White Powder of Gold, Ma-na or Manna, even potentially Morning Dew -- is also an acronym for “Orbitally Rearranged Monoatomic Elements”.  The phrase was coined by David Radius Hudson, who has done an enormous amount of research on the subject (of which he has in turn shared with thousands of others).   The word ORME -- perhaps coincidentally, or perhaps not -- is the same as the Hebrew word which means: the “Tree of Life”.   

http://www.halexandria.org/dward466.htm

In addition to all of this reading, ask yourself, why were these secrets hidden, and made esoteric?

Was ORME formed in the Orion nebula, as was all human life on Earth?(IMHO....:D)

Have you ever looked into the Orion Nebula, and it's close symmetry with our creation myths such as the bible and the new testament?

It all comes together at some point for many, while others just cast it aside as fodder, and thats what has kept mankind from rediscovering the alchemist's secrets for all these years.

Heres another cool link for some brain candy involving Orion and the indoctrination perpetuated by the Roman Catholic church.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyiTp30HNPg&feature=autoplay&list=PL6B46808F4660E38C&playnext=1[/youtube]

Somewhere there is a secret part that will make our lifter soar effortlessly, and inthese many pages we shall eventually find it and yell BINGO! as Linda has posed!

Cheers, 1WW!
Littleenki
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Mikado on June 25, 2012, 07:59:00 am
So, there are such things as gravitator's that are capable of producing low input high yield results then? Do these devices, or are these devices accessable with mere layman's garage tools? Could we , as a group build such a thing with little too no cost?

First off, thanks for coming back to clarify.

You used the word Gravitator where as I used the word Gravitor. I see a difference. Take the word rotator. The definition is merely something that rotates. That would mean that a Gravitator would be defined as something that gravitates.

A Gravitor is much more. As another example, look at the word Capacitor. It is derived from the word Capacitance which can simply be described as the ability to hold a charge. Of course there is much more going on in a Capacitor and many variables such as permittivity and reactance as well as how it reacts to changes in frequency to name a few. It is not called a Capacitator for it is more complicated than that.

A Gravitor involves everything that is involved in a Capacitor. However, it is designed to create a Gravity field. Just as a Resistor creates resistance, an inductor creates inductance and these are not called Resistator or inductator.

I believe the confusion, in my opinion, began in the early experiments when it was found that the negative "gravitated" toward the positive and thus the word "gravitator" was coined.

Now, judging your posting and the way you write, I am sure you understand my position in the use of the word which now brings me to answer your question:

As to having the ability to build it yourself in a garage I would answer yes. However, contract machining would be required for the plates and dielectrics. Also, a lathe and a mill would help a good deal as well but then these can be in the home garage as well.



With the "Gold Ring" theory, and the mention of "White Gold" properties by Pimander being Neg. G substance, do you think there is feasible applications for someone such as our selves to produce a flux that would change the properties of the gravitational fields to a negative state, or repulsion state?

I really can't answer directly. I do think that there are "more ways to skin a cat" (sorry cat) in regard to creating a gravity field than just a Gravitor. A repulsion state you say? How about this, what if a gravity field has polarity? I do know that the Gravitor I mentioned in other posts would either decrease it's weight or increase it's weight depending upon  the polarity of the lead.

Boyd Bushman had given a fine example for how certain materials seem to interact with each other that do seem to be repulsing the gravity effect, with Mr. Bushman's credentials and with explanation of the effect, it is seemingly not only "Possible" but "Practical" for applications of such a nature. Mr. Bushman had initially used simple common pipes to give his experiment visual life, one conductive the other nonconductive, with a magnetic steel ball bearing, he put it to the test, as the Bearing fell through the nonconductive tube, it was 4X's slower too fall through than with he conductive, this allows me to accept that there is something to consider as far as materials and expenditures for such a venture of creating an antigravity effect.
And do you believe , there is in fact, such a thing as Antigravity and that we currently understand it?

1Wordlwatcher

I must admit to not knowing Boyd Bushman but there is something ringing a bell about the experiment you mentioned. However, I do believe mercury will play a part at some point in the future but how, I am not sure, just a gut feeling at this point.

As to the term "Antigravity", I do not believe it exists. I believe there is a relationship between Electricity, Magnetism and Gravity. To have "Antigravity" would mean that there would be "Anti-electricity" or "Anti-magnetism" and I don't believe, at the present, that the universe we live in will accept that.

However, one could look at an airplane as "antigravity" for it does counter gravity but I am not buying that description..<g>

I hope I have addressed your questions and if not, ask again.

Best

Mikado
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: stealthyaroura on June 25, 2012, 08:27:14 am
read this and tell me what you think.
Quote
David L. Wenbert:

Let them all have The Big Secret: that 'Voltage' is FASTER than 'Current', and that fast switching can exploit this, drawing on any source of ambient electrons in the environment (earth, air, water). Its ultimately how ALL FE/OU devices work; Bearden was right - establish the Dipole, and switch so that it is never discharged/shorted and you can draw free current forever. Voltage propagates faster (up to at least 8x "c", speed of light), whereas current in a solid conductor propagates at something slightly less than "c". That's IT, that's the Secret. Everything else is window dressing. It's like Hans Bethe said about the Atom Bomb, "the big secret was that it was possible; once you know THAT, anyone could figure out how to make it work..."
There are a few reasons why I think his comments have merit.

Tesla claimed that longitudinal waves from his system propagated faster than the speed of light.
When you close a circuit the current lags the voltage. The voltage seems to be there instantly.
Tesla used fast switching to produce disturbances or impulses in the aether and prevent current flow, by doing so he was able to produce a pure flow of aether that he could magnify.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Mikado on June 25, 2012, 08:34:20 am
read this and tell me what you think.

The propagation of "voltage", which is called the electric field, is considered to be c.

Electron drift, which is the actual electron or current, is usually calculated in physics as millimeters/hour and is dependent upon the electric field intensity.

When no field is present, the free electrons usually just bounce around at the Fermi velocity the amount of which defines a conductor from an insulator.

Mikado
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: rose on June 25, 2012, 10:16:53 am
ORMEs?  White Powder Gold.  At high temperatures they have been shown to have negative mass (i.e. levitate).

This needs a thread. ::)

P.S. ORMEs: Orbitally Rearranged Monatomic Elements.

You may well be right, Pimander

In the process of working with Linda Brown, I was allowed to see printouts of some of the email correspondence between Paul Schatzkin, and the character then known as Morgan. I don't have the document now, or I would be able to give you a direct quote, but in one of the exchanges, Paul was told the 'manna from heaven" story was real.

Now, as to whether or not the "real Morgan" was the "real author",  of that message, I can't say.  Nobody can without having witnessed whose hand was on the keyboard. All I can say for sure is that though the messages were quite terse, somebody posting from a Blackberry seemed to bring forth some important information.

rose
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Linda Brown on June 25, 2012, 10:24:40 am
read this and tell me what you think.

David Wenbert mentioned " fast switching" and it helped me remember something that "Morgan" had told Paul about a " special tunnel diode." Now I do not know anything about electronics pretty darned obviously but that phrase switch stuck in my mind regarding it..... fast switching.... and I am wondering if possibly Eavid wenberts quote here and what Morgan mentioned to Paul Schatzkin could be the same thing.

I had thought that Morgan hadn't really given Paul too much in the way of technical information but certainly the mention of " tunnel diode" would have meant something to someone who was willing to do the back up research.

Linda
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on June 25, 2012, 11:01:56 am
Hmmm, Linda, I remember proposing some fast switching in another thread...was it a fast switching theory about a device..what was it...a gravitor? :o :o :o

That phrase has jumped out like a mugger from an alley!

Le
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: stealthyaroura on June 25, 2012, 11:04:03 am
David Wenbert mentioned " fast switching" and it helped me remember something that "Morgan" had told Paul about a " special tunnel diode." Now I do not know anything about electronics pretty darned obviously but that phrase switch stuck in my mind regarding it..... fast switching.... and I am wondering if possibly Eavid wenberts quote here and what Morgan mentioned to Paul Schatzkin could be the same thing.

I had thought that Morgan hadn't really given Paul too much in the way of technical information but certainly the mention of " tunnel diode" would have meant something to someone who was willing to do the back up research

Linda
exactly linda, the part about "fast switching" is the key to allow us to unlock the vast amounts
of zero point energy from the aether.I recommend you read the FULL version that it was taken from over at the thread titled "just how advanced is alien technology". .http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=1400.msg20793#msg20793 (http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=1400.msg20793#msg20793)
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: stealthyaroura on June 25, 2012, 11:06:27 am
Hmmm, Linda, I remember proposing some fast switching in another thread...was it a fast switching theory about a device..what was it...a gravitor? :o :o :o

That phrase has jumped out like a mugger from an alley!

Le
your bang on with picking the words "fast switching" LE there the key.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on June 28, 2012, 06:27:46 am
Hey Stealthy!
Apparently fast switching isnt new,eh?!

Tesla had it down pat, and our science est. blew it....especially when they minimized Maxwells equations! If they had tried to understand what he had come up with instead of simplifying it, wed be in a much different world right now.

If I could go back and meet JP Morgan, Id be chopping that dudes head off pronto!

The way I see it, is that the prize is there for the taking, and our science est. wont ever find it with the hamfisted ways they employ.

Like a young bear chasing the salmon around without success, and finally along comes the old bear and shows the young'un how to stand in the downflow and catch them as they come!

We as the little guys are the old bear, and our PTB(emphasis on the power..current;))are the young bear, flailing wildly and getting nowhere, but stringing millions of miles of copper across the land, shocking the crap out of everyone with their "current".

Dollard is the most recent hope, and if we can stand upon what he says as a soap box of truth, someone in our fold will make the ultimate catch, and feed us salmon for a lifetime!

As long as power companies are in play, though. we are going to see this cat and mouse game with technology...we find it ...they hide it.

JP Morgans fault?...off with his head!.>:-(
And then feed it to the bears!

Cheers!
Le

Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Amaterasu on June 28, 2012, 08:58:49 am
Oh, never believe They "blew it."  The hiding of the facts was done very deliberately.  The Heaviside equations were jumped on because they could not take People where TPTB did not want People to go.

The stringing of copper, etc., is a very deliberate move as well.  It keeps energy in the control (and therefore the People who rely on it).  They are more an old, evil, control-freak bear, out to ensure that the other old bears do not have the knowledge to teach the young bears well.

JP was just doing what old, evil, control-freak bears do...
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Pimander on June 28, 2012, 09:43:44 am
You may well be right, Pimander

In the process of working with Linda Brown, I was allowed to see printouts of some of the email correspondence between Paul Schatzkin, and the character then known as Morgan. I don't have the document now, or I would be able to give you a direct quote, but in one of the exchanges, Paul was told the 'manna from heaven" story was real.

Now, as to whether or not the "real Morgan" was the "real author",  of that message, I can't say.  Nobody can without having witnessed whose hand was on the keyboard. All I can say for sure is that though the messages were quite terse, somebody posting from a Blackberry seemed to bring forth some important information.

rose
Thanks you Rose.  FINALLY I have drawn something out regarding this.  I will write more on this type of material soon.  Perhaps you (or other members) might have your memories jogged about this.

@Linda
Do you have this or relate documents (Schatzkin material) still?  Or do either of you know where they might be or have any leads I can follow?

ORMEs interest me.  Not just because ORMEs themselves may be useful.  If ORMEs can display properties like losing mass among other things, then if we work out how, perhaps we can make ANY MATTER do this.

Pimander is not entirely just a useful idiot.  Except when it suits him. ;)

P.S.  I will post a thread with some key words to see if it jobs anyones memories.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Pimander on June 28, 2012, 09:57:41 am
David Wenbert mentioned " fast switching" and it helped me remember something that "Morgan" had told Paul about a " special tunnel diode." Now I do not know anything about electronics pretty darned obviously but that phrase switch stuck in my mind regarding it..... fast switching.... and I am wondering if possibly Eavid wenberts quote here and what Morgan mentioned to Paul Schatzkin could be the same thing.

I had thought that Morgan hadn't really given Paul too much in the way of technical information but certainly the mention of " tunnel diode" would have meant something to someone who was willing to do the back up research.
This is possible a clue.  A tunnel diode can be used to create very high frequency oscillators.  That kind of ties in with my opinion that resonance is the key to novel propulsion.

P.S.  They are also used in microwave amplifiers.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on June 28, 2012, 10:00:01 am
Pimander, if you have the time and a bit of moola, you could try the device in that link Hobbit posted with the three pyramids of wire,
Of course, youd need to get ahold of some mercury, and that stuff is very dangerous to handle.
A friend is working on that very apparatus, and tells me he is close to completion, but wont share any of it with me until he has success, so wishin him luck!

ORME does have a long history as you may know, and was a big part of our original society and their alchemical skills.

I have wondered about the change in the earths ability to transmute these elements compared to way back then, and what was achieved in those times may have been because the aether or the em fields of earth were different.

One things for sure...Orion still holds the keys for many a joyride, and maybe this years alignment, however it occurs, will be the magic point for the new alchemy.

Enjoy the digging, as the ancient knowledge is another whole rabbit hole!

Le

Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on June 28, 2012, 10:06:35 am
Tunnel diodes...eg esaki diodes are basically a ratchet for voltage. I have never actually understood how they worked Littleenki but I do remember that Paul was told by Morgan himself that Dad had developed a special sort of " tunnel diode" ( I think in 1957 or so). Paul never looked into that. .... Paul... if you are reading this... perhaps I am not being fair. Perhaps you " looked into it" but just didn't understand what Morgan was referring to when he used the phrase " as special kind" of tunnel diode. So when you get a chance Littleenki and Luke and  everyone... what might a " special type" mean to Morgan in the field of electrogravitics????Like a ratchet, the voltage flows through, while current is limited, until the signal or voltage is pure, and cannot reverse. Like a conventinal diode, it restricts backwards flow, but in another way, it allows the voltage to pass while the curent doesnt.
Heres a better explanation, instead of my hamfisted one!
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=tunnel%20diode&source=web&cd=7&ved=0CHoQFjAG&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ee.sc.edu%2Fpersonal%2Ffaculty%2Fsimin%2FELCT563%2F08%2520Tunnel%2520Diodes.pdf&ei=zI3sT_7XB4mE8AT_6vXGBQ&usg=AFQjCNEJDNGmxLPaeCqO0tmh_oOCV3VR6g&sig2=Z5hNNWvfwviYLhxL4pi0VQ

Right... I like your " ratchets up the voltage" idea. And I get an intuitive flash again that something strange and different happens when you get into REALLY high voltage. Why otherwise would Dad go through so much peril to bring a German "high voltage expert" back before the Russians caught him? ( read about THAT in Pauls book and maybe we can talk about it in the thread devoted to that book)

There is something about high voltage OBVIOUSLY.... I just cant right now see what it is.

All I get is that odd bright shade of purple/violet and what it tells me sometimes just has to wait before I can talk about it. Same deal right now!!!!  Linda
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Pimander on June 28, 2012, 10:09:20 am
Enjoy the digging, as the ancient knowledge is another whole rabbit hole!
Oh, I'm more than familiar.  8)
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on June 28, 2012, 10:13:23 am
I kinda thought so, Pimander, you seemed very aware! :)
What a great world of knowledge to be aware of isnt it?
Le
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Linda Brown on June 28, 2012, 10:32:30 am
Pimander.... You just said this

"This is possible a clue.  A tunnel diode can be used to create very high frequency oscillators.  That kind of ties in with my opinion that resonance is the key to novel propulsion.

P.S.  They are also used in microwave amplifiers.

Just pointing out that Morgans exact words to Paul were " A special kind" of " tunnel diode"

Do you have any idea.... remembering what you know here about resonance and microwave amplifiers... what the " special kind" of that tunnel diode might have done??????  Thinking that electricity and gravity are linked in electrogravitic devices and that was what Dad was known for. How would a device that steps up the voltage would have worked slightly differently than the standard electromagnetic one?

I think that we have the answer right in front of us because I can see the color but it must be up to you because thats all I get!!!!!  There aint no more!!!! Linda
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on June 28, 2012, 10:34:50 am
Hey, did you jst edit my post instead of yours? LOL!!!!
LE
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: deuem on June 28, 2012, 11:50:25 am
Hello Zorgon and posers all, I just found this thread and I see it is getting into all sorts of ideas.
 
My approach to such a project or any project is where do we go from here. It is real nice that humans can get some balsa wood to hover in the air with wires attached (power). Nice gadget! But where or what is the practical application to all of this. Do I expect to see 100 meter lifters for each person. Or voltage so High if I bump another car or person, Poof smoke. All of you have been working on this for a very long time and must know by now. Is it just a fancy toy or our future. See it is people like me they then turn to, to make it work in production and I have to ask. What do I do with this? I know the practical guy ( but only for this question )
 
Does anyone know the answer, What do I do with it?  Are we at the beginning, middle or end of this development?
 
Follow up, If I remember right did not one of you, maybe Linda said that a test on the lifter was made in a vacuum. If so does this mean anything?  So I guess i am looking for the lifters road. Where is it going to take us? Dead end or heaven?
 
Please, what ever you do , do not read this as sarcastic or putting anything you are doing down. It is a valid question and I hope someone knows the answer. When we are on the forum it is team time.....If all of the brain power here can't figure it out who can?
 
Thanks,
Deuem
 
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on June 28, 2012, 01:15:29 pm
Good question, Dueum, not sarcastic at all, as we dont get anywhere going "oh well whatever"

What is the issue with the lifter, isnt the use of a big one or even how to build a big one, but it's to understand the way high voltage interacts with our surroundings and how to get the voltage without all the current.

Its a cool device to show off, but really nothing more than a prototype for something much wilder. What will happen hopefully, is that through the repeated use and construction of lifters, we might be able to observe a unique force never seen before, and thats the real goal.

Somehow, theres more than just thrust or levitation going on there, and when it becomes more obvious we all win, as then we can apply what weve learned through that pathway.

Building lifters has been helpful for many researchers for years, in understanding the basics of HV and how the negative charge chases the positive, so we need to keep the lifter in mind as a tool, not an invention to save the world...a test meter of sorts to see why and how Hv works within the aether.

Its all at the beginning still for most, and soon there will be breakthroughs inspired by that little lifter, as when anything is first invented theres a base process that shows the inventor why it works, just not how good yet.

Some, like myself think there are interdimensional effects taking place there, and some think its purely electrical in nature, and then some in between, but without the lifter there wouldnt be any way to inspire new inventors, beyond some equations and drawings.

Check out PWM's new thread when up, and youll see fast why we all chase that little lifter for the prize!

Cheers!
Littleenki
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Mikado on June 29, 2012, 07:34:49 am

<snip>

Building lifters has been helpful for many researchers for years, in understanding the basics of HV and how the negative charge chases the positive, so we need to keep the lifter in mind as a tool, not an invention to save the world...a test meter of sorts to see why and how Hv works within the aether.

<snip>

Littleenki

If you reverse the leads on a lifter it will still "move" in the same direction regardless of the orientation of polarity.

Mikado
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on June 29, 2012, 07:45:21 am
Assymetry of electrodes.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: deuem on June 29, 2012, 07:47:22 am
Ok, 2 very good answers so far but no end game?
 
Is this just a fancy Science experiment?
 
In another thread I read today it stated this was done in a vecuum chamber and still worked. OK, great news.
 
Would one spend 10K on just an experiment? There has to be an end game here somewhere. Other wise, why start.
 
If I was the guy ( I wish ) and had all the money. And interviewed people for possible inventions what would you guys tell me.
 
We can get balsa wood to fly. Ok, Next!
 
What is in your minds on where this is leading everyone?
 
Is this step 15 on a 20 step road or 15 on an unknown road?
 
Is there any practical application to apply this do when done?
 
Thanks, Deuem
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on June 29, 2012, 07:58:07 am
Mornin' Dueum!

I picture the bb effect being of use in some other field besides flight or such, except for space flight which can be powered by big solar panels, and create endless thrust due to the high vacuum of the aether.

Of course, as I posed earlier, it may take such high voltage that none of us will find the truth through experimentation.

What I think is necessary, is to build a flame jet generator and achieve the millions of volts necessary to make those discs spin off the charts...until then floating balsa wood and foil is a step forward that has been taken over and over again.

That wooden tread is getting worn thin, isnt it?

Think in terms of that vacuum, and how it presents nearly zero resistance to relocation of any matter, and space travel is the only clear choice for this tech.

Ah, the differential sail...

(http://www.daviddarling.info/images/induction_sail_1.jpg)

But, is this device a gravitor or exhibiting the bb effect?

None of us have a shuttle, though, so maybe we need to get Branson over here, to take a gravitor into space and try to fly it for us!

Hey Richard are ya listening?

Le
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Linda Brown on June 29, 2012, 08:01:35 am
Pay close attention to how much time Dad spent with "lifters"

http://www.smashwords.com/books/view/49963

In my book
" The Good-Bye Man" there is a scene where I accompanied my Dad to his lab in Washington DC. The year was...... 1955.  He held a demonstration of something made of balsa wood and metal... it floated in front of an important military personage after that man had said that there was " NO WAY" that it would work. I think Dads question was...." Are you willing to bet your career on that?"

But much later Dad spent absolutely no time in that direction. One needs to ask..... why. And there are many answers to this so don't let yourself get stuffed into the box that does not exist except in your mind.

Linda
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Mikado on June 29, 2012, 08:01:52 am
Assymetry of electrodes.

what?
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: deuem on June 29, 2012, 08:54:02 am
Ok, in a vacuum on Earth or in space is different. One has a lot more gravity.
 
Question, I see all of these lifters with about a 3 inch height. What happens if you go 3 feet tall?
 
Linda, It seems that even your dad had problems taking the next step, Is there any mention by him as to what that would be?
 
Mikado, You said you spent 10K on one of these. I could buy a car here for that money. A small cheap one!
 
Is there an application on Earth for the masses or is this some big secrete?
 
Another observance. All of the video I have seen so far is of these things lifting off the floor or a table to sort of a fixed height and stopping. If it truly could lift why do they stop going up? Why not right to the ceiling? If this is true then they are just being repelled from the floor by some means and not flying?
 
I also see these all in a triangle shape. Is this the only shape that works. Will round work or star shape?
 
When I hear the word lifter, I would think heavy payload. Maybe a craft that can cross the oceans for almost no cost and very fast with a very heavy cargo. If it was fast enough and proven safe then do it with people and forget all the oil driven planes in the air.
 
Littleenki what does this flame generator run on?
 
Deuem
 
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Mikado on June 29, 2012, 08:58:28 am

 
Littleenki what does this flame generator run on?
 
Deuem

http://www.skif.biz/files/0dd54a.pdf

What ever fuel you wish to use in a jet engine.

Mikado
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Linda Brown on June 29, 2012, 09:16:18 am
Ok, in a vacuum on Earth or in space is different. One has a lot more gravity.
 
Question, I see all of these lifters with about a 3 inch height. What happens if you go 3 feet tall?

I will let someone who has built them go there with that question.
 
Linda, It seems that even your dad had problems taking the next step, Is there any mention by him as to what that would be?

You will know more about that once you have learned more about his history.... In 1955 he made plans to prove that his " discs" would work in a vacuum. Note.... Discs are not Lifters.... when he came back his work went very dark....when he surfaced again he was building something called the fan precipitor ( which years later became the Ionic Breeze here in this country)... the other ability ( of it being used as a " loudspeaker) was being explored.... and then in 1967 there was a big meeting at the RAND facility... and I never saw that big loudspear. fan  .... ever again and Dad again...... Years later he suggested that Jim Lee " take the fan and run with it..... and basically got him set up in his understanding and then left...." Dad could not have been less interested in it commercially.
He started collecting rocks.... and maybe you know more about that.... and it continues....
  Mikado, You said you spent 10K on one of these. I could buy a car here for that money. A small cheap one!
 
Is there an application on Earth for the masses or is this some big secrete?
I mentioned the Ionic Breeze. Somebody made money on that but of course it never hit the market until after Dads death.
Another observance. All of the video I have seen so far is of these things lifting off the floor or a table to sort of a fixed height and stopping. If it truly could lift why do they stop going up?

They were tethered and could only go as far as the lines holding them down. And their power supplies were external... if the line to that was not limited.... they could have gone anywhere. Why not right to the ceiling? If this is true then they are just being repelled from the floor by some means and not flying?  They were not just being repelled from the floor..... Certainly not an " air effects " machine in that usage.
I also see these all in a triangle shape. Is this the only shape that works.

No.... A disc shape is actually the best but the Triangle is easier and cheaper to build and easy for amateurs to construct. Triangles are strong too and relatively forgiving!!!!Will round work or star shape?... not sure about ... never built a round or star shaped one.
When I hear the word lifter, I would think heavy payload. Maybe a craft that can cross the oceans for almost no cost and very fast with a very heavy cargo. If it was fast enough and proven safe then do it with people and forget all the oil driven planes in the air.

Right.
Littleenki what does this flame generator run on?
 
Deuem
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Linda Brown on June 29, 2012, 09:19:14 am
By the way. Dad was not the person who coined the name "Lifter", I believe that was the Naudin group.... but I could be wrong.

His patent called what they call a lifter an
Electrokinetic Apparatus

The fan was one too.... operating on the same principle.

Linda
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Pimander on June 29, 2012, 09:25:53 am
Just pointing out that Morgans exact words to Paul were " A special kind" of " tunnel diode"

Do you have any idea.... remembering what you know here about resonance and microwave amplifiers... what the " special kind" of that tunnel diode might have done??????  Thinking that electricity and gravity are linked in electrogravitic devices and that was what Dad was known for. How would a device that steps up the voltage would have worked slightly differently than the standard electromagnetic one?
The answer just isn't jumping out at me.  No "eurika" moment yet....

I think that we have the answer right in front of us because I can see the color but it must be up to you because thats all I get!!!!!  There aint no more!!!! Linda
Anyone else have more?

I kinda thought so, Pimander, you seemed very aware! :)
What a great world of knowledge to be aware of isnt it?
Le
Yep. :)
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Linda Brown on June 29, 2012, 09:30:25 am
A Jimmy Buffett line

"Only got two options
Having fun
or freaking out!"

so lets have fun!!!!  Linda
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Mikado on June 29, 2012, 09:32:33 am
The answer just isn't jumping out at me.  No "eurika" moment yet....
Anyone else have more?
Yep. :)

From my experience, it may mean "quantum tunneling" in a dielectric - a certain type of dielectric and would be used in the communications field.

Mikado
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: rose on June 29, 2012, 10:05:45 am
Mikado, I seem to remember that when we came once before to this discussion of the tunnel diode's role in submarine communications, Mr.  Twigsnapper (insert usual cavet here about unknown internet sources) responded with something like..."communications with whom?"

The range of possible answers can be quite extensive.

rose

Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Linda Brown on June 29, 2012, 10:14:23 am
Deuem,

I am so glad that you are there asking these questions. It gives me an opportunity to see the topics that have been covered and also the enormous amount of work that we all have to get the information " out there" Because yours are valid serious questions and you are trying to get from point a to point b. I really appreciate that~

I am sure that the questions that you have now will morph into more and more detailed ones as the first are answered. Thats maybe the object of this entire thing and maybe thats the most important job that the " lifter" could bring to all of us.... it is simple.... it is visible.... it works.....It makes an impression.

This is a quote directly from my book.... which of course others have tried to discount. You be the judge whether I have told the truth or not.

(understand this is from my work book here and is not the finished edited copy that is available here so there might be some slight adjustments to the text.)

http://www.smashwords.com/books/view/49963

When a group of ten gentlemen filed in I recognized Mr. Lear ( who I would later come to know as Bill Lear of Lear Jet fame) and Dr. Sarbacher, Daddys good friends who had made many trips out to Montressor. I started to wave to them but I remembered Dads instructions. I bent over the big typewriter pecking out " the quick red fox...."Mother said typists used that sentence for practice because it had all of the letters in it.

I peeked at the men out of the corner of my eye. Other than Mr. Lear and Dr. Sarbacher the rest of them were in uniforms. Some of them talked to each other and some talked to Daddy and asked him questions but the leader, an Admiral maybe, was quite gruff and acted as if he had other things to do and was already late. I got the impression that whatever it was Daddy wanted to show them, he had better be quick about it!

Dad directed the groups attention to a foil and balsa wood model that looked like an oversized silver envelope. " From everything  that you know about science..... if I apply power to this should it move?" Dad asked.

The important man took a walk around the wingless contraption. " No! Certainly NOT!" He snapped in a tone of voice that seemed to say...." What a complete waste of my time this morning is turning out to be."

"Would you like to bet your career on that?" Daddy asked as he reached over to a black knob like the one that made my electric train go around. He turned it a bit to the right and the little envelope started to shiver.The most curious of the men, those closest to it, took a half step backward! Dad turned the knob some more and the form shook even harder. Now it was starting to hiss! The men stepped back still again, bumping into each other in the process. I couldn't help but look up. The silver model was rising in the air, higher and higher until it was hovering dead level with the Admirals wide open mouth. ( That was the greatest sight I had ever seen!)

The meeting didn't last much longer. The group walked out almost as quickly as they had come in, but now they were much quieter. When the door closed behind them I asked Dad what all of that meant. He beamed at me and said " Oh. Alot of things Sweetie. A whole lot of things!"
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Mikado on June 29, 2012, 12:19:10 pm
Mikado, I seem to remember that when we came once before to this discussion of the tunnel diode's role in submarine communications, Mr.  Twigsnapper (insert usual cavet here about unknown internet sources) responded with something like..."communications with whom?"

The range of possible answers can be quite extensive.

rose

Mr. twigsnapper you say? okay.

I agree that the range of possible answers could but not only would be quite extensive. In fact, if I were say to say that I was in communication with someone this afternoon the list could be just as large.

Let's not hear things that go bump in the night and react as if it is something other than what it is, a bump in the night or perhaps just that - communications.

Tunnel diodes as in current semiconductor descriptions function in the forward bias direction as one thing but will have Zener action in the reverse bias function. Somehow, I don't think that is what twigsnapper <g> was meaning, a semiconductor as described in electronics theory. But he was talking a semiconductive result...perhaps, and is quite explainable and is a very unwanted condition when working with EG. Provided of course that twigsnapper <g> was referring to some written work of Dr. Brown.

Mikado
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: deuem on June 30, 2012, 02:20:28 am
Linda, thank you for that nice story. I can vision them and their faces.
 
So far what I can put together is this. It looks to me that the ionization part is a by product and not the reason. One, it was turned into a type of fan that proves it to me. Two, this worked in a vacuum chamber. No air and still lifted.  So it is displacing the Gravity B wave somehow. B is a weak wave and the lifters in question are very light.
 
Back to Littleenki. B Waves in space are so small, what would it do?
 
Back to earth. If this does have an affect on B waves, then something is going on besides the ion. I need to look into Mikados link on the generator and I will be back on that.
 
All I need to do is to get my car say 12 inches or more off the ground. It does not have to fly yet. Hover is Ok with me. No tires-no road friction, no steering rods, shocks, springs, wheel wells, brakes, tubes, liquids, transmission, rear or front axel gearing and anything else in the car devoted to the tires. End game = better mileage. I would bet that is about 1/3 to 1/2 of the overall weight. So the force needed to move it then would be a lot less.
 
Linda mentioned rectangular. My SUV has this foot print. So if we can forget about the UFO possibility and bring it down to ground, we can all use it. Please forget any roads where we need an imbedded track. This thing has to run anywhere, even across water or dirt roads to be practical. We already have mass transit and few people use it. Transit that is run on a track or wires.
 
Deuem
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: zorgon on June 30, 2012, 02:46:53 am
Was your Puthoff one of them?

He is not 'My' Puthoff :P He just shows up in anything and everything I research, like Fox Mulder's smoking man

Never met him and can only post what others say he has said. I have heard many times that that was his opinion, but that was the first time I  found the actual quote

I hear tell that in the early days of the Pegasus yahoo group, he did show up. So maybe I should send him an invite to join the fray :D
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on June 30, 2012, 04:12:45 am
Mornin' Dueum!

I think if it were to be a viable space propulsion system, it would at this point be a secondary system which would be used for long journeys, where the craft would have a while to gain velocity.

As far as instantaneous thrust, it may not be as useful, so regular thrusters could be employed for maneuvering and such.

You have a great idea about the friction of the car being negated with the technology, but as such, that friction is also what enables a car to stop and turn with controllability.

A car which employed a lifter type hovering system would require some pretty serious brakes of some kind to stop it's mass from hurtling forward.

It's a funny story about when I got to ride in a hovercraft built by a friend, and he had no ability to steer or stop without flooring the engine for thrust, and we found out the hard way hovercrafts dont steer worth a dang, by running into everything in sight!

We were the scourge of the lake that day, and finally just idled around safely until we ran out of gas!LOL!

So, I have to ask, with all the back and forthing weve done in this thread so far, have we really discovered the true force that lifts a lifter? Has the engineering talk brought forth any fruit, or is it the same questions and guesses that make up the thick book of lifter mystery?

Negative chasing positive?
Polarity not mattering?
Tethered devices not leaving their power supplies?

What really makes it work?

A component of gravity or electricity, or both? Of course, but what is it that the high voltage does that a low voltage wouldnt, besides make the thing a hundred times more dangerous?

Would some magnets thrown into the mix make a difference?

I wonder if anyone has tried to use magnets to alter the lifting force which occurs with a lifter, and how a lifter might be creating it's own magnetic field which it hovers in. Could a lifter be made with some magnetic materials, instead of foil and balsa? Yes, but what would that do?

All maybes...and what is it in space that the lifter so craves when it begins on it's journey upward? Does tha aether have something to do with it, as if the lifter is looking for the correct density of aether when it goes aloft?

As I posed earlier in the forum, is a lifter a meter for measuring some force, such as aether density or a device which according to it's particular input voltage that finds a sweet spot in the broth?

I wonder where one would stop if we did have one with an onboard HVPS.
The ionosphere? The moon?
Never?

It would probably be the next step to understanding lifter tech, if we could just let it fly, and see where it went.

Sorry to leave this morning with more questions than answers, but it is a deep subject, with lots of unanswered questions.

Le



Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: deuem on June 30, 2012, 05:06:08 am
Littleenki, If this lifted off the ground in a vacuum chamber, then the atmosphere has nothing to do with it. Your so called aether? It is pure Gravity B. I also think that anyone who has plans on going the next step will never discuss them. It would feel like they are giving away a multi-million dollar idea. When inventors hit the brick wall, they go fishing. The fish also go hunting for inventors.
 
So in a way I think I am answering my own question. I think that anyone that has this tech and knows the next step will never say anything and might even take it to the grave in search of the pot at the end of the rainbow. Or it is so wrapped up in black projects, we will never figure it out becuse of the resources needed for that step. Like in the billions.....Either way, I will never see my floating SUV..
 
Deuem
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on June 30, 2012, 05:42:09 am
Good point, D, maybe its already solved.

I have a floating suv, with a yamaha 150..:)

Le
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Linda Brown on June 30, 2012, 05:50:59 am
And Deuem. Maybe you will "see" something more important..... the lifter, the propulsion systems.... they were all " ashtray products". Go for what really counts.

Linda
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on June 30, 2012, 06:13:55 am
Dueum, do you have access to a good pic of alifter on operation?
I bet youd have a fiwld day with it!:)
Le
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: deuem on June 30, 2012, 06:16:52 am
(http://img.diytrade.com/cdimg/311866/1135002/0/1100835784/Football_Style_USB_Ashtray.jpg)
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: deuem on June 30, 2012, 06:30:57 am
Dueum, do you have access to a good pic of alifter on operation?
I bet youd have a fiwld day with it!:)
Le

No, And today it feels like I should kick myself day. You are the second person today to mention something I should have done but haven't. Silly Deuem. The other one was to compare chem and con trails. Ouch that I felt. There are most likely others I have missed. On the lifter I would think a frame grab from a video would work. And I take it you have a pontoon boat. Our lake used to be full of them ( at home not here ) Me, I liked the blow boats. The double hulled ones with a stretched canvas floor. I had an 18 footer you could water ski behind if the wind was up and on the salt. I somersaulted it several times.
 
I will try to get some photos, it is now on my list of things to do. Lifter vid or good photos in the air.
 
Deuem
Title: Straight talk
Post by: Mikado on June 30, 2012, 06:34:31 am
A good deal has been had in discussing a lifter. Most, that I have seen and operate, are constructed from balsa wood and have asymmetric plates. The plates are a skirt that is positioned perpendicular to the ground or the table it is being set upon. Above that is a corona wire (that is a reference word only that I borrow from other devices). They are usually constructed in a triangle shape with an upright pole at each corner, and the larger that I have seen are multiple triangles. Say, if you took a square shape and put a support from opposite corner to opposite corner and then did it again so that there would be four triangles inside of a square. What is being accomplished by doing this is to create multiple sections, in other words, each triangle is a capacitor, asymmetric, and the entire lot are capacitors in parallel. Each capacitor contributing a thrust component.

The lifter has a fluid dielectric, the fluid is the atmosphere. The dielectric constant of air is 1. + and the dielectric of vacuum is 1. They are close enough to be considered relatively equal. Although not a lifter, Dr. Brown did some experiments at Bahnson in which he had an asymmetric disc in oil. When charged, he would be able to see the ionization patterns and flow that would happen in the air. But there were also other reasons. Think oil in capacitors.

Getting back on the topic. When in the atmosphere, the corona wire sets up a field of ionization. The skirt, is charged oppositely from the corona wire and the ionization field will migrate toward the skirt according to Coulomb. This process creates a movement of the dielectric which is the ion wind and is known as EHD (ElectroHydrodynamics).

However, there is a component to the device that is not readily recognized and that is the Biefeld-Brown effect.

To figure that out, look at the K for air and vacuum and you might see how it works in a vacuum, if it even does and I doubt it.

Mikado
Title: Quick Question to Mikado
Post by: deuem on June 30, 2012, 07:30:26 am
The lifter has a fluid dielectric, the fluid is the atmosphere. The dielectric constant of air is 1. + and the dielectric of vacuum is 1. They are close enough to be considered relatively equal. Although not a lifter, Dr. Brown did some experiments at Bahnson in which he had an asymmetric disc in oil. When charged, he would be able to see the ionization patterns and flow that would happen in the air. But there were also other reasons. Think oil in capacitors.
Mikado

Should I take this as, submerged or resting on oil. If the oil was a mineral oil, should it react similar to air? If it was submerged in Oil, then where would the Ions come from, the Oil?
 
On the vacuum, there is pulling a vacuum, anything under room psi and then pulling till nothing or amost nothing is left at all. One is for putting lids on things the other is for coating optics. To get a 100% vacuum is very difficult. I don't know if it can be done or not.
 
If you know this answer off hand let me know, If not I can go figure it out. "When Ions are produced, from which gas in the air are they comming from?"
 
At this moment, it still looks to me that the Ions are a result and not the reason.
 
Deuem
Title: Lifter test
Post by: deuem on June 30, 2012, 07:47:22 am
To anyone who has a lifter or knows this answer.
 
What would happen if the top corona wires were placed in a clear plastic straw? Would it still lift?
 
I would think if it still lifted then it is other that the ions. It should just sit on the floor! No?
Title: Re: Quick Question to Mikado
Post by: Mikado on June 30, 2012, 08:01:47 am



Here is a link to a partial video from Bahnson. Unfortunately, it does not have the oil experiment shown. I will look at the complete video and try to do a frame grab.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rp4hygoD3RU


Should I take this as, submerged or resting on oil. If the oil was a mineral oil, should it react similar to air? If it was submerged in Oil, then where would the Ions come from, the Oil?

The disc, which if memory serves but I could be wrong, looked similar to the Adamski saucer. It was submerged in a glass column that was filled with oil. What the type oil was I will assume, but perhaps wrongly, that it was a dielectric PCB based as used in capacitors and transformers of that era. Yes, the ions would come from the oil but what is visible would be the currents produced which would be visible. That is just one of the aspects of that experiment.

On the vacuum, there is pulling a vacuum, anything under room psi and then pulling till nothing or amost nothing is left at all. One is for putting lids on things the other is for coating optics. To get a 100% vacuum is very difficult. I don't know if it can be done or not.

To add to your second sentence - or it could be pulling the atmosphere out of an A/C system or pulling the vacuum out of a kiln that silicon ingots are being produced in for the semiconductor field or a host of other things - truly the either/or does not apply to this.

Pulling a 100% vacuum is difficult and is usually done with a screw type pump to allow heating under vacuum so that outgassing can occur. When a certain point is reached a cryopump is then used or a sorbtion pump. It may take a goodly amount of hours if not days depending upon the size of the chamber but when finished, they will measure the vacuum, not by inches but, by molecules/cubic foot.

If you know this answer off hand let me know, If not I can go figure it out. "When Ions are produced, from which gas in the air are they comming from?"

Actually, I can't answer that off the top of head. Been too long since Physics class <g>
 
At this moment, it still looks to me that the Ions are a result and not the reason.
 
Deuem

And you are entitled to your opinion. Opinions are created in the mind and are usually the seed that will lead to a physical experiment.

But here is a bit to end what appears to be confusion. A lifter is not the saucers that you will see in the video link above. The saucer is NOT a lifter.

Mikado
Title: Re: Lifter test
Post by: Mikado on June 30, 2012, 08:04:43 am
To anyone who has a lifter or knows this answer.
 
What would happen if the top corona wires were placed in a clear plastic straw? Would it still lift?
 
I would think if it still lifted then it is other that the ions. It should just sit on the floor! No?

It must be a bare wire. If you use an insulated wire it will not lift, the insulation hinders it.

I would assume that the insulation would act the same way as a straw.

Mikado
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: thorfourwinds on June 30, 2012, 08:10:04 am
Hello Zorgon and posers all, I just found this thread and I see it is getting into all sorts of ideas.
(...)
My approach to such a project or any project is where do we go from here?
(...)
When we are on the forum it is team time...

If all of the brain power here can't figure it out who can?
 
Thanks,
Deuem

Greetings:

Attaboy, Deuem!

We have taken the liberty to highlight the above for obvious reasons.

Thank you for your time, consideration, patience and participation.

Peace Love Light
tfw
Liberty & Equality or Revolution


ETA:  Have some gold!
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: rose on June 30, 2012, 08:34:53 am
Off topic for a moment, Mikado, at the time it was asked in 2008, the question was a perspective changer for me I have learned much since then that I would not have learned without being able to shift to that viewpoint.

But back to this topic, it looks like you are senior engineer on this project by default, if not by willingness.

rose, retreating now, back to reader/observer.

Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Linda Brown on June 30, 2012, 08:50:25 am
I just realized that I had to point something out. When I quoted this from the book that Rose and I wrote....

When a group of ten gentlemen filed in I recognized Mr. Lear ( who I would later come to know as Bill Lear of Lear Jet fame) and Dr. Sarbacher, Daddys good friends who had made many trips out to Montressor. I started to wave to them but I remembered Dads instructions. I bent over the big typewriter pecking out " the quick red fox...."Mother said typists used that sentence for practice because it had all of the letters in it.



I failed to mention that the year was 1955. I was nine years old. Zorgon and others. Put that in perspective with what is happening now.

Zorgon you keep mentioning NAVY. I think that you have learned my Dads dedication to that service. Decades after he left the navy I have watched military men refer to him as " Commander Brown" with the same kind of Deference that some in white lab coats used with they called him " Doctor Brown"

Johns father... Bill Lear.... was with that group of men in 1955. Do you all think that it is just coincidental that I am here now... on the site dedicated to his  SONS thoughts.... and with Zorgons ongoing passion for what he calls the " Space Command".

And whether some here believe in him or not... I saw Morgans "badge" when he flashed at Holloman.... It was the pewter NRO ensignia. Those sentries snapped to attention  to so hard I thought they would get whiplash.

Linda

So its all coming together Zorgon... all here now finally.
I hope this all comes out the way that you have perhaps dreamed it would.

Linda
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Mikado on June 30, 2012, 08:51:31 am
Off topic for a moment, Mikado, at the time it was asked in 2008, the question was a perspective changer for me I have learned much since then that I would not have learned without being able to shift to that viewpoint.

But back to this topic, it looks like you are senior engineer on this project by default, if not by willingness.

rose, retreating now, back to reader/observer.

Not senior engineer, no, either by default or by willingness. I am only offering answers to questions.

Mikado

PS: Not to sure if I was slammed or not..<g> I never want ANY position by default unless we are rebuilding the plane to fly out of the desert for then, I have a personal interest...<g>
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Linda Brown on June 30, 2012, 08:57:09 am
Mikado,
I am noT partial to sitting around in the sand  when I know that there are a collection of folks gathered now that can really make a difference. We all have a vested interest in flying the Phoenix.  So... we all do what we can and are expected to do.

 Linda
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on June 30, 2012, 09:11:12 am
Sahara...great movie for everyone, especially engineers!
Le
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Mikado on June 30, 2012, 09:14:21 am


Attaboy, Deuem!

We have taken the liberty to highlight the above for obvious reasons.

Thank you for your time, consideration, patience and participation.

Peace Love Light
tfw
Liberty & Equality or Revolution


ETA:  Have some gold!



For some reason, I can't get the original quote to follow with the "quote" button and when I attempt to write in code and change the font and color to match the original, it doesn't. So, apologies if you have to stumble through on my post.

I will make a comment that will not endear me to some on this forum. It may offer ramifications but it is MY opinion.

The comment from above:

When we are on the forum it is team time...

And who is going to pay for the Prototyping with whatever the "team" comes up with?

If all of the brain power here can't figure it out who can?

Figure out what?

I have noticed in the past that everyone wants the answers, some so they can build something and cheat the power company, some so they can build something to fly and then there are those lurkers who wish to capitalize on the backs of someone who not only solves the problem but also finances the solution.

Frankly, I don't give something to do with a hole in a rolling donut if anyone believes me or not. The answers that I do give, will hopefully steer someone who has the willingness to pony up the bucks and look for themselves but I will not give out solutions to anyone on my sweat and investment. The longer a person can hold on to it, the longer they can steer what and where it will go even though the reality is that someone will figure out a misuse for it.

If the forum doesn't like my answer, oh well, I spoke my peace and could go on with this but I am in enough trouble.

Mikado

Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Mikado on June 30, 2012, 09:15:25 am
Sahara...great movie for everyone, especially engineers!
Le

I meant the "Flight of the Phoenix"...the original with Jimmy Stewart.

Mikado
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Linda Brown on June 30, 2012, 09:23:55 am
Thats the one I was talking about too Mikado.

As to your other post I would simply say

"Frankly, I don't give something to do with a hole in a rolling donut if anyone believes me or not. The answers that I do give, will hopefully steer someone who has the willingness to pony up the bucks and look for themselves but I will not give out solutions to anyone on my sweat and investment. The longer a person can hold on to it, the longer they can steer what and where it will go even though the reality is that someone will figure out a misuse for it."[/color

]Well Put. And I could have said exactly the same thing.

Linda

Which part Mikado..... the part in orange. More power to you.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Mikado on June 30, 2012, 09:27:15 am
Thats the one I was talking about too Mikado.

As to your other post I would simply say

Well Put.

Linda

The "trouble" part or the content...<g>

(you don't have to answer..just making a light comment...I'll shut up now)

Mikado
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on June 30, 2012, 09:29:32 am
I meant the "Flight of the Phoenix"...the original with Jimmy Stewart.

Mikado

Even better lol, are you dating yourself?:)
Le
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: deuem on June 30, 2012, 10:33:44 am
Greetings:

Attaboy, Deuem!

We have taken the liberty to highlight the above for obvious reasons.

Thank you for your time, consideration, patience and participation.

Peace Love Light
tfw
Liberty & Equality or Revolution


ETA:  Have some gold!

Thanks for the gold. I just wanted to add a note. In the title the word "posers" should be "posters". My "T" is sticking and I need a new keyboard. Sorry! They are only 3 bucks here, I should buy a few.
 
I always think that the minute anyone enters a Forum they should feel like a part of a team and work together. This does not mean you have to give out certain valued information. Other wise, why log on? This site is full of very smart people that can help each other through some problems and I enjoy reading that happen. The site also brings up a lot of new questions that need thought and I enjoy that also. Hense the brain power part. As you all know the IQ level on this site is very high, well above normal sites. 10x some sites...
 
A sharing of certain info is a good thing since a lot of us have common interests and have no one at home to discuss this stuff with. What am I going to do, go outside and ask a local? So, Critical info pertaining to your own investments should be kept to your self. But research info being shared or conversations that brings all of us up a knotch is what I call a good forum. Why we are here.
 
The lifter tech seems to have been around since before I was a gleam in someones eye. So this topic should be Ok to a point.  There is a lot of free information on the Web and we access it daily. This type of info is free and easy to share. I don't know about the rest of you but I still like to learn something everyday if possible. If I don't, I get mad at my self. Deuem
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Mikado on June 30, 2012, 10:47:51 am
Thank you deuem for you answer.

I hope we have an understanding.

Mikado
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: deuem on June 30, 2012, 11:38:50 am
Thank you deuem for you answer.

I hope we have an understanding.

Mikado

By all means.  Yes we do!
 
Side story: I have from time to time seen this happen on line where compaines post a problem in a manner that can answer and help them solve another problem. Tricky devils.  Deuem
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: deuem on June 30, 2012, 11:44:04 am
I was able to get this video, TY Mikado
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rp4hygoD3RU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rp4hygoD3RU)

I will look it over when I have free time. I do see it was in a glass bell.
 
Littleenki, I also found a square lifter with 4 triangle sections like Mikado was talking about. I will see how it processes. He ran the lifter off an old crt monitor.  I never ran one before so I don't know if there will be anything or wow? Deuem
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on June 30, 2012, 12:19:53 pm
Best of luck, Dueum!
Le
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Mikado on June 30, 2012, 12:32:24 pm
Deuem,

Here is a link to a supply at ebay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/100KV-DC-HIGH-VOLTAGE-MULTIPLIER-8-STAGE-STACK-TESLA-/150806960400?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item231ccb9910#ht_763wt_698

It is not the entire supply but you will need to make your own "Cockcroft Walton multiplier". Here is a link to help you calculate it.

http://www.extremeelectronics.co.uk/index.php?page=cwvoltage

You will also need a transformer to take your wall supply and step it up to feed the cockcroft walton and the ouput of the cockcroft goes into the multiplier from ebay.

For input to the step up transformer, a variac can be had.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Variac-Tenma-Variable-10A-Autotransformer-/160830612979?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item25724065f3#ht_500wt_949

Just look at all this neat stuff to build an experiment on!

And if you want to just outright buy a supply:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GLASSMAN-HIGH-VOLTAGE-REGULATED-HV-DC-POWER-SUPPLY-EG-50N-/251078418666?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a7570a0ea#ht_628wt_698

Now this one here will be very effective for lifter experiments but they will have to be small lifters for the current of this unit is not that much. Lifters do use current.

Hope any of this helps.

Best,

Mikado
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: zorgon on June 30, 2012, 01:06:19 pm

For some reason, I can't get the original quote to follow with the "quote" button and when I attempt to write in code and change the font and color to match the original, it doesn't. So, apologies if you have to stumble through on my post.

Highlight the text you want to quote hit the quote icon It is really not that hard.

Quote
I will make a comment that will not endear me to some on this forum. It may offer ramifications but it is MY opinion.

And who is going to pay for the Prototyping with whatever the "team" comes up with?

Funding is easy to find if you have a sound plan to lay in front of an investor. We has a grand idea for an event center and based on our well laid out plan I have a commitment for $200 million in writing, based on us making the first steps happen as laid out. We hit a snag when three top members died of a heart attack but the point is money is easy to find

There are many rich eccentric people out there looking for a project to fund, but you have to have something other than talk to show them

Now since you cannot figure out how the quote button works, how am I to understand you can make a Gravitor we can take to a potential investor?

 ::)
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Mikado on June 30, 2012, 01:13:23 pm

Now since you cannot figure out how the quote button works, how am I to understand you can make a Gravitor we can take to a potential investor?

 ::)

HA!...you are funny too!

Truth be told, I hate computers but they are a necessity. I didn't go online until 2001.

As to finding money, you are absolutely correct. It is getting the money to build it so you can take it to show the deep pocket people that is the tough part.

BTW, I find the Gravitor easy...it is these things that are a pain. If I use a crescent wrench, I don't fret about how it was made, I just try to use it. Same goes for my Glassman supply, Leader scope, Leader LCR bridge etc. I just use 'em.

Mikado
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: 1Worldwatcher on June 30, 2012, 03:00:51 pm
As far as I can tell, the lifter produces our desired effects, the Ionization just happens too be the Bi-product the type of methods being used. We do not necessarily need a balsa wood, tinfoil lifter to achieve this floating effect, this can be done with a simple rolled coil of copper and D/C applied current, funny thing is , when doing this, the coil floats, but limited to a melt down state of the material, such as copper, super conductive, but not practical for long term use.
I personally think, with  the effects desired being produced, only supports our ideals of such a device being a practical end goal. There are many constituent thing's going in when we apply live electrical currents too many things, it is the struggle to find that "One" thing that ties it together as a irrefutable application.
I personally believe that the power source going in is the catalyst for the reactions that occur, i.e. Vibrational frequencies, which, as we know, happens in nature all the time. There are a lot of studies intothe "Frequency" proposals for different use, and as a matter of fact, "Frequency" is what is the most abundant with in our Universe. Whether it be from Planetary ballet or from the Solar winds produced by the multiple Sun, I do not know, but we do know it is there, and there is an endless supply of it.
This would also be the application too explain the "Vacuum" applications that Deuem and others have been discussing as "Does it work in a Vacuum" inquiries. This would be the answer I would have to give for the "Frequency" Ideologies of my perceptions and thinking of the "Lifter Effects" being produced without the insemination of tinfoil panels and Balsawood application's.
Harmonics is another applicable scenario as well. Though in the "Frequency" realm of Harmonics, it is a more harsh bi-product of the "Frequency" Fields, and is more "Audible" , if you will, for automatic detection of it's proximity. With in the audibles, there is an unstable characteristic of disturbed molecules, these molecules trigger such sensitive things as our inner ear, can create disbalanced feelings, sickening and nausea effects and make us into an attitude we are or were not previously. If this can affect our mental constitutions, it also means it can affect the surrounding's in a molecular aspect.
There are so many thing's proposed out there for Frequency/Harmonics Fields, that we have weapons that use such minimal force to control the masses with a push of the button.
I have no lab, I have not a PhD, I am a regular Joe that is utterly fascinated that we have not yet, to this day , as a group figured out the "Out Side the Box" alternatives that is all there for the taking. I personally am in this too know it can be done, with this forum with us as the contributors of such conceived knowledges. But eh frequency thing has been looked at , then laid to the way side of applicable concerns for the apparatus such as we seek to be nothing more than distorted, disturbed or activated molecules for the goal of another form of energy, transportation and most of all "An Answer" too all we seek with making this device not only practical but a realistic irrefutable method of such endeavours.
Raw frequency moves objects, with Raw frequency we can bring humans to their knees, with Raw frequency, in its most subtle form, I do believe we will find the "Golden Egg" for the explanation of "How can we make it work" inquiries. I have too stand my gorund on this that the dsipalcement and the charge added too cause the "Lift Effect" is nothing more than molecules being transformed into some other form of chaotic material that creates the "Lifter Effect" for any of this too be witnessed. And the Vacuum inquiries and questions are answered as well, and do explains Space travel as well.
Hope I don't get too torn up by you sci-guy's and Gal's out there, but it seems as if the longer I look into the applications thus far all lack one terminology of the application, "What is happening in the most finite Molecular instabilities when we try to do this?" and "Frequency abounds the most abundant and attainble thus far that I can find for explanation."

1Worldwatcher
Global Moderator
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: zorgon on June 30, 2012, 03:13:00 pm
As to finding money, you are absolutely correct. It is getting the money to build it so you can take it to show the deep pocket people that is the tough part.

Well that would be seed money. To be able to determine that one would need to know how much one needs for the prototype

Matyas, before he vanished, has calculated that to build us a four seater based on his teams work would cost us around $30 million.

Now in my opinion a four seater is a little beyond a prototype so I would assume we would need less than that.

There are many research grants available. Most people would be SHOCKED at how many billions are available annually that no one even knows about. And that is just from the government

You might have to disguise the project in the beginning, as Otis Carr did by calling his saucer an ;amusement park ride" in his patent, but it was basically a working saucer mounted on a pole to get it past the patent clerk (who are very stupid people)

So before you can think about the money, you need to have a reasonable ball park figure, broken down into targets
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on June 30, 2012, 03:26:43 pm
Frequency and harmonics...now were getting somewhere, 1WW!
Good post.
Le
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: 1Worldwatcher on June 30, 2012, 03:39:06 pm
Frequency and harmonics...now were getting somewhere, 1WW!
Good post.
Le

With in our every day lives, we have frequency all around us, we just have to figure out what material(s) are most effected by this existing frequency upon or with in our atmosphere, this is measurable.
Then, and only then, we can mold the necessary areas into a mathematical deduction to further the aspects and implications of such ratio aspects and sciences necessary to go on from there LE.
Thanks for your acknowledgement LE, means a lot coming from you My friend.  ;D

1Worldwatcher
Global Moderator
 
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Mikado on June 30, 2012, 04:56:30 pm
As far as I can tell, the lifter produces our desired effects, the Ionization just happens too be the Bi-product the type of methods being used. We do not necessarily need a balsa wood, tinfoil lifter to achieve this floating effect, this can be done with a simple rolled coil of copper and D/C applied current, funny thing is , when doing this, the coil floats, but limited to a melt down state of the material, such as copper, super conductive, but not practical for long term use.

You are mixing oranges in with the apples to make an apple pie in this paragraph.

I personally think, with  the effects desired being produced, only supports our ideals of such a device being a practical end goal. There are many constituent thing's going in when we apply live electrical currents too many things, it is the struggle to find that "One" thing that ties it together as a irrefutable application.

Did you mean to say the desired effects being produced? I can fly with no power in a glider, I have seen flight by a person peddling, I have seen flight with an internal combustion engine, I have seen flight with a jet engine. In all scenarios, the powerplant was different but the net result was still flight. If you are implying as to the flow of current than you must be talking EM. EG the primary catalyst is the Voltage. You are still mixing an orange in with the apples.


I personally believe that the power source going in is the catalyst for the reactions that occur, i.e. Vibrational frequencies, which, as we know, happens in nature all the time. There are a lot of studies intothe "Frequency" proposals for different use, and as a matter of fact, "Frequency" is what is the most abundant with in our Universe. Whether it be from Planetary ballet or from the Solar winds produced by the multiple Sun, I do not know, but we do know it is there, and there is an endless supply of it.

And how does this compare that in your first paragraph you mentioned DC. DC is direct current and it's frequency is 0 hz. Again, I cite the apple scenario.


This would also be the application too explain the "Vacuum" applications that Deuem and others have been discussing as "Does it work in a Vacuum" inquiries. This would be the answer I would have to give for the "Frequency" Ideologies of my perceptions and thinking of the "Lifter Effects" being produced without the insemination of tinfoil panels and Balsawood application's.
Harmonics is another applicable scenario as well. Though in the "Frequency" realm of Harmonics, it is a more harsh bi-product of the "Frequency" Fields, and is more "Audible" , if you will, for automatic detection of it's proximity. With in the audibles, there is an unstable characteristic of disturbed molecules, these molecules trigger such sensitive things as our inner ear, can create disbalanced feelings, sickening and nausea effects and make us into an attitude we are or were not previously. If this can affect our mental constitutions, it also means it can affect the surrounding's in a molecular aspect.
There are so many thing's proposed out there for Frequency/Harmonics Fields, that we have weapons that use such minimal force to control the masses with a push of the button.
I have no lab, I have not a PhD, I am a regular Joe that is utterly fascinated that we have not yet, to this day , as a group figured out the "Out Side the Box" alternatives that is all there for the taking. I personally am in this too know it can be done, with this forum with us as the contributors of such conceived knowledges. But eh frequency thing has been looked at , then laid to the way side of applicable concerns for the apparatus such as we seek to be nothing more than distorted, disturbed or activated molecules for the goal of another form of energy, transportation and most of all "An Answer" too all we seek with making this device not only practical but a realistic irrefutable method of such endeavours.
Raw frequency moves objects, with Raw frequency we can bring humans to their knees, with Raw frequency, in its most subtle form, I do believe we will find the "Golden Egg" for the explanation of "How can we make it work" inquiries. I have too stand my gorund on this that the dsipalcement and the charge added too cause the "Lift Effect" is nothing more than molecules being transformed into some other form of chaotic material that creates the "Lifter Effect" for any of this too be witnessed. And the Vacuum inquiries and questions are answered as well, and do explains Space travel as well.
Hope I don't get too torn up by you sci-guy's and Gal's out there, but it seems as if the longer I look into the applications thus far all lack one terminology of the application, "What is happening in the most finite Molecular instabilities when we try to do this?" and "Frequency abounds the most abundant and attainble thus far that I can find for explanation."

1Worldwatcher
Global Moderator

This last quote I don't know where to start.

I am not tearing up, just pointing out. But what else can you expect from me. A straight answer.

What if someone stumbled upon something that worked but they couldn't explain it. It was adaptable to transportation, it was adaptable to the generation of power, it was adaptable to communications and in short, individuals were finding all kinds of ways to adapt it to do work. And now the question - would you use it or not use it - since it was not fully understood?

Just a "sneaky" little question.

Mikado
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Linda Brown on June 30, 2012, 05:11:48 pm
Oh she raises her hand in the back of the class and calls out " Electricity of course. We still don't know EXACTLY everything about it but we obviously use the heck out of it."

I am not tearing up, just pointing out. But what else can you expect from me. A straight answer.

I will continue to expect what you are so well known for Mikado..... not to worry.


  Linda
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Mikado on June 30, 2012, 05:18:34 pm
yes, you are correct, it was and is electricity.

So, if someone were to create a device that defied known science, it was repeatable by third parties and was shown how it could be adapted to various applications..would the PTB let it?

As someone in history said - "only if I can put a meter on it and charge for it"

Mikado
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Linda Brown on June 30, 2012, 05:29:31 pm
So if thats the way the systen works then find a way to exploit it to everyones benefit.

Charge for the power.... unlike what Amy has been saying.... set up grids... be the new Electric company.... but then.... fund programs that take most of that money. That way people appreciate what they are getting.... People appreciate things more when there is a price tag on it... have you noticed. Giving things away for free does not always have the desired results.

Oh... your new system would be cheaper maybe than electricity is today but there should still be a price....then funnel those funds into schools and research and taking care of the elderly. Everyone would benefit... because every one is so accustomed to that organization of business....

There should be a unique and creative way to keep the establishment but make it work for you, not against you.  Linda
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Mikado on June 30, 2012, 05:43:54 pm
So if thats the way the systen works then find a way to exploit it to everyones benefit.

Charge for the power.... unlike what Amy has been saying.... set up grids... be the new Electric company.... but then.... fund programs that take most of that money. That way people appreciate what they are getting.... People appreciate things more when there is a price tag on it... have you noticed. Giving things away for free does not always have the desired results.

Oh... your new system would be cheaper maybe than electricity is today but there should still be a price....then funnel those funds into schools and research and taking care of the elderly. Everyone would benefit... because every one is so accustomed to that organization of business....

There should be a unique and creative way to keep the establishment but make it work for you, not against you.  Linda

Hoover Dam Linda, sit down for this....I agree.

Mikado
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: 1Worldwatcher on June 30, 2012, 06:06:14 pm
Quote
This last quote I don't know where to start.

I am not tearing up, just pointing out. But what else can you expect from me. A straight answer.

What if someone stumbled upon something that worked but they couldn't explain it. It was adaptable to transportation, it was adaptable to the generation of power, it was adaptable to communications and in short, individuals were finding all kinds of ways to adapt it to do work. And now the question - would you use it or not use it - since it was not fully understood?

Just a "sneaky" little question.

Mikado

You are missing the entire mark here Mikado, I am speaking of natural frequencies, and no problem, you just didn't get it, all is good.
And thanks for you Post, it is not "Electricity" at all, it is ambient incursions of some fantastical materials, who knows, maybe when we have it all figured out , we will call it "Mikado" ...LOL And then again, maybe not.
Frequency is not electricity.

1Worldwatcher
Global Moderator
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: zorgon on June 30, 2012, 06:12:03 pm
As someone in history said - "only if I can put a meter on it and charge for it"

Well actually he said "Where can I put the meter" to Tesla's wireless power

And in all fairness he had a valid point. He built the power plant, he would have to build the Tesla towers to transmit that power and someone would have to build the receivers and converters to use that power at home

So why would anyone spend that time and money (millions) with no return, never mind profit?

Also all that energy being beamed around... has anyone considered the effects to humans and the environment form wireless power transmission?  Think about that cellphone doing brain damage and that is merely a small dose. Go climb a radio mast and see what it feels like

(disclaimer: No don't actually do this :P )

Money is not evil, it is a tool

Sure lets set up Pegasus Energy Consortium... not free energy, but cheap affordable energy, then use that money to fix real problems

And the sooner we can get a saucer off the ground that operates in space, we can go see what is really going on up there on Farside
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: SarK0Y on June 30, 2012, 06:15:18 pm
Amici, everything like levitation, teleportation etc.  & so on have been hella crushed up against such a simple moment (compact & a powerful source of the good ole energy).  ::)  to deal with powerful alternating magnetic fields seems too doubtful: it can destroy vehicle in no time thanks to emf tsunami.  ;) +needless to say, fusion reactors have the same deadly curse :)
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Mikado on June 30, 2012, 06:16:02 pm
You are missing the entire mark here Mikado, I am speaking of natural frequencies, and no problem, you just didn't get it, all is good.
And thanks for you Post, it is not "Electricity" at all, it is ambient incursions of some fantastical materials, who knows, maybe when we have it all figured out , we will call it "Mikado" ...LOL And then again, maybe not.
Frequency is not electricity.

1Worldwatcher
Global Moderator

And that is what you were trying to say?

Your right, I missed the side of the barn with the proverbial Howitzer. I read the post in it's entirety and thought it was meant to be read in it's entirety. My mistake.

But as a codicil, I see so much on this forum, as I have witnessed in other forums, on the blending of terms, the use of terms that have specific meanings in certain fields that someone is using in a different scenario but giving it a different definition...so confusing.

And just a bit of advice, take it or leave it, but when you are making a post that starts out with electricity and then you go into frequency the natural interpretation is to combine frequency to electricity which is AC (Alternating Current) but your right, I should have figured it out from what you wrote.

I'll just sneak away for now.

Mikado
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Mikado on June 30, 2012, 06:18:08 pm
Amici, everything like levitation, teleportation etc.  & so on have been hella crushed up against such a simple moment (compact & a powerful source of the good ole energy).  ::)  to deal with powerful alternating magnetic fields seems too doubtful: it can destroy vehicle in no time thanks to emf tsunami.  ;) +needless to say, fusion reactors have the same deadly curse :)

I love this guy!

 to deal with powerful alternating magnetic fields seems too doubtful: it can destroy vehicle in no time thanks to emf tsunami.


It needs to be ...eloquent.

Mikado
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Pimander on June 30, 2012, 06:21:27 pm
Sure lets set up Pegasus Energy Consortium... not free energy, but cheap affordable energy, then use that money to fix real problems
That makes sense to me. :)
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Amaterasu on June 30, 2012, 07:00:54 pm
So if thats the way the systen works then find a way to exploit it to everyones benefit.

Charge for the power.... unlike what Amy has been saying.... set up grids... be the new Electric company.... but then.... fund programs that take most of that money. That way people appreciate what they are getting.... People appreciate things more when there is a price tag on it... have you noticed. Giving things away for free does not always have the desired results.

Oh... your new system would be cheaper maybe than electricity is today but there should still be a price....then funnel those funds into schools and research and taking care of the elderly. Everyone would benefit... because every one is so accustomed to that organization of business....

There should be a unique and creative way to keep the establishment but make it work for you, not against you.  Linda

Actually, I haven't noticed that People appreciate things more when there is a price tag on it.  I have noticed that People appreciate things more when given from the heart.  Kids get expensive stuff all the time and trash it.  Or, if it's not what They really wanted badly, become unhappy.  But when it is given with thought for exactly what would please Them, THEN they appreciate it - regardless of the price tag.  Something as simple as a pinecone picked up off the ground and given to anOther who adores pinecones will be far more appreciated than giving Them a car They don't need.

And when money is gone, and when cars can be had for the asking...only gifts from the heart will be given.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Amaterasu on June 30, 2012, 07:07:06 pm
Money is not evil, it is a tool

Agreed.  It is the LOVE of money that is the root of all evil...

Quote
Sure lets set up Pegasus Energy Consortium... not free energy, but cheap affordable energy, then use that money to fix real problems

And the sooner we can get a saucer off the ground that operates in space, we can go see what is really going on up there on Farside

If We sell units that give free energy, We can make money that way at the outset...and eventually do away with the need for money.  And that WILL fix most problems - because most problems have money (LOVE of) at the root.

For if We do it any other way, We will be infiltrated and taken over the THEM, and no problems will permanently be solved.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Mikado on June 30, 2012, 07:44:09 pm
Actually, I haven't noticed that People appreciate things more when there is a price tag on it.  I have noticed that People appreciate things more when given from the heart.  Kids get expensive stuff all the time and trash it.  Or, if it's not what They really wanted badly, become unhappy.  But when it is given with thought for exactly what would please Them, THEN they appreciate it - regardless of the price tag.  Something as simple as a pinecone picked up off the ground and given to anOther who adores pinecones will be far more appreciated than giving Them a car They don't need.

And when money is gone, and when cars can be had for the asking...only gifts from the heart will be given.

 Here is a for instance:

What if I gave you the answer to construct a Gravitor that would give you an efficiency of well over 100%  (based upon displacement/weight x 100%) that could not only lift itself vertically but also the power supply to operate it along with a payload. There is one drawback, it was given for you and only you to use. However, you discover that you haven't the money to build it.

Now the real question: What would you do with that knowledge?

Mikado
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Amaterasu on June 30, 2012, 08:33:34 pm
Gee, Mikado.  You have given Me nothing.  If I cannot build it and cannot let Others in on it...  I would have to file it away and hope someday I could use it.

Not sure where You're going with this.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Mikado on June 30, 2012, 08:38:59 pm
I gave you the answer to how to do it. Is that nothing?

Wouldn't that be a pine cone to you?



Mikado
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Amaterasu on June 30, 2012, 08:56:06 pm
I gave you the answer to how to do it. Is that nothing?

Wouldn't that be a pine cone to you?



Mikado

In that hypothetical situation, I suppose...  But that is kinda like giving a recipe for a favorite dish to a starving bum...  "I won't give You the ingredients useful to You - and You mustn't ask anyOne for the ingredients, but here's how You make that dish You so crave..."

Actually, it would be less of a pinecone and more of a written description of a pinecone in stark and dispassionate terms.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Mikado on June 30, 2012, 09:04:40 pm
Okay, how about this approach.

You said "
Gee, Mikado.  You have given Me nothing. 

But I did give you something. Something that cost me greatly, is there no value to that?

Continuing:

If I cannot build it and cannot let Others in on it...  I would have to file it away and hope someday I could use it.


But yet what I see going on in particular this forum and others, is the repeated question - "how does it work?" - "What did you build?"

So if someone asks those questions than are they really not asking for themselves personally or is there some other ulterior motive?

Are you seeing my point yet?

Mikado
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: zorgon on June 30, 2012, 09:10:55 pm
I love this guy!

 to deal with powerful alternating magnetic fields seems too doubtful: it can destroy vehicle in no time thanks to emf tsunami.


It needs to be ...eloquent.

Mikado

Well he is Russian  English not his first language ;)

So I guess we pack up then cause the silly foil lifters won't help much and too much power will destroy :D

yeah yeah I know there are other options :P
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: zorgon on June 30, 2012, 09:13:11 pm
Well he is Russian  English not his first language ;)

So I guess we pack up then cause the silly foil lifters won't help much and too much power will destroy :D

yeah yeah I know there are other options :P

I think I will just put a team together and jump some Aliens, give em a good probing, and steal their ride.. seems a lot more practical

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/04images/Bluebird/dc6c43e86a4e.gif)
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Mikado on June 30, 2012, 09:20:41 pm
Well, as I see it, ideas are a bit like a certain orifice - everybody has one.

But then there are those ... nah... not going to go there...<g>

I do believe that a lifter could be readily adapted to a boat...or a sub but not necessarily to an airplane.

I could be wrong but they are in use.

http://iopscience.iop.org/1742-6596/34/1/116/pdf/jpconf6_34_116.pdf

Mikado
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Amaterasu on June 30, 2012, 10:41:20 pm
Okay, how about this approach.

You said "
But I did give you something. Something that cost me greatly, is there no value to that?

Continuing:

But yet what I see going on in particular this forum and others, is the repeated question - "how does it work?" - "What did you build?"

So if someone asks those questions than are they really not asking for themselves personally or is there some other ulterior motive?

Are you seeing my point yet?

Mikado

Yes, I see where You're going.  If I WANTED to know, and You confided in Me, it would be a pinecone, irrespective of the cost to You.  But it would not be so much the information that was the pinecone, but the confidence in Me.  In fact, if I loved pinecones, and You brought Me one, it would be Your though for Me that would be most valued.

When someOne asks, it is likely for Their edification - with some probability of having ulterior motives.

If edification is motive and You shared, the confidence still would be the treasure; the data appreciated - like the thought behind the pinecone is the treasure, the pinecone appreciated.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: deuem on July 01, 2012, 01:32:52 am
Hi All,
 
On my aspect, I will leave the electronics to you scientist guys. I have no intension to build a lifter. It is not my pinecone. The idea maybe is. What I do is to take an application and make it work in production. All of the nuts and bolts stuff that is needed to make these in mass production. Along the way a need for certain information is required. How not to zap people, how to keep people safe. How to brake, how to start it up, how to make it fit the real world. There is more work needed in this end then most of us think. It can take years of Engineering work to just change a car model. Since it is done consecutively you never see it. A hundred people at the same time for a year and not one person for a hundred years.
 
In the mean time we would have to think about a million things and solve a million production problems while the science guys wait. That is called linier production and takes a lot of time. I like concurrent engineering where the entire team is on the project at the same or almost same time. Usually an overlap works best. So no one is far behind and the answer guys are near by to figure out the electrical or math questions as they arise.
 
When people like me work with these inventor people they get pushed with real life questions and have to think faster. It excites the brain to work better. They get hit with questions they never thought of before and have to break new ground at a faster pace or the product dies.
 
In a company this is easy to do, everyone has contracts and agreements. On a web site, I don't know how it could be done. If I thought that there was a very worth while project to work on and Zorgon could get seed and production investment money, I would move to Vegas in a week(s) to start it up. Get the ball rolling. As far as money goes, it is a tool. Some people abuse tools, some have no tools and others use the right tool for the right job. No different than guns, knifes or TNT.
 
I am also pretty sure if I ask this team again, What are you going to do with this tech? The answer will be I am sitting on it. If you already had a large enough team you would have done it already. What ever “it” is! So some how that idea has to be converted into reality, maybe with a contract. On the other hand if you had a couple of hundred million, most likely you would be here making deals and contracting people Yourself. So does an idea die because of the tool “money” or does the brain power here figure out a way to get around that hurdle and make it fair.
 
I guess we have 2 choices, make it happen somehow or sit at our computers till we die of old age and wonder if it really could of worked. Unless an idea is taken to the end, it is all for nothing in the long run. How many people take great ideas to their grave? The number one killer of these types of projects is greed! It stops more contracts than anything else. Even if we exchanged pinecones, someone would want too many.
 
Deuem
 
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Linda Brown on July 01, 2012, 05:27:21 am
The strange thing about Dad and probably the most negative thing about his character was that once he " figured out" the mystery of one particular thing that would  or could be developed commercially.... he was gone. You didn't call him the " Good-Bye man" for nothing.

He had absolutely ( and I mean absolutely) no interest in doing what you do so well Deuem. In figuring out all of the thousands of little things that are necessary to make a product useful in the market place. Dealing with the Underwriters for example would have driven him bonkers. He had no time for it.

Mainly because developing something for the " market"  to sell so that he could make money from it.... well.... he could have cared less.

If he had cared about " making money" He would have taken the very substantial fortune that was there for him when he was just a kid and " buckled down" as his Uncle advised him to do. After all he was the only male heir to the Townsend family businesses which were substantial. Quarry, Wool mills, even brick making and the first horse drawn tolley system in Zanesville. Mr. Townsend owned a huge ranch in Peabody, thousands of acres..... a ranch in California covering a good piece of what is now called " Palos Verdes" overlooking the ocean near Long Beach.... He had oil wells in Kansas and gas wells in Ohio.... Coal interests in Pa.....and even an Apartment complex in Kansas City. 

If Dad had been interested in making money he could have stayed home.

But he got fascinated with the idea that there was some sort of " radiation" that seemed to be affecting his " units"..... he figured that it was Gravitation.... and then he wondered why it " varied" and after that.... he concluded that he was somehow in touch with the " Nervous system of the Universe"

I am alot like my Dad. I don't care a whole lot about money. Never have  really. I have been in positions where I had really wonderful  financial advantages. I have ridden " to the hounds" in Virginia, Stepped past a door man in one of the best hotels in Philadelphia... knowing that I lived in the Penthouse.... spent time on a private yacht and did my share of interesting travel.

In almost the same period of time I have worked along migrant workers picking fruit for a few dollars a day.... trapped rabbits and fished in the Everglades to put dinner on the table because there wouldn't have been anything to eat if I hadn't.... knowing that sometime in the future that things would be better but at that moment....there was no money.....

In fact there is one fellow out there reading these words who offered to give me a place to live. Course it was in his student facility at the time and there would have been other youngsters like me sleeping on  the couch or floor too... but he was genuine that he would look after me..... I said no because I trusted that somehow Dads work would " pan out" and that he would soon have a project that would be worthy of my time and efforts..... so I hunted and fished  and Mother and I waited to hear from Dad...... Three months later we were living in the Drake Hotel in Philadelphia and I was helping him build a " Loudspeaker Unit" at the Decker Lab. The following year we had moved to Santa Monica where I worked at Guidence Technology... trying to develop what I thought was " the fan".... Then in November of 1967 there was a meeting at RAND and Dad announced that I should "get my own life" because the "Project" was closing down.

So I did.

And now I watch what is happening here with a sort of wierd dispassionate attitude. I hope that this " pinecone" works out for someone or group here . I believe that you all have been brought together for a purpose and you all have the qualities of thought and character that are needed here....

But understand that while I am always there to encourage all of you.... I really do think that I have paid my ticket already and I have taken the ride that I needed to take. I don't have any further say in any of this and don't expect any. You guys and ladies are on the threshold of a new age. And there is enough here for all of you to reach your wildest financial and spiritual expectations.

But there is one thing certainly. The time is now.

So if any of you have any expertise in what you think is worth building then for darned sake..... build it.

I just bought myself a brand new saddle. And I think that I am going to go riding. You all know that I will be watching and wishing you all the best.   Linda
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on July 01, 2012, 05:46:06 am
As I posed early in this thread and I think a few here may agree...the lifter is a tool to teach us, not to lift us.

Some have waxed philosophical now, and the thread has become quite full of corrrections and quoting, yet the little lifter has been pushed aside for these Confucius moments.

1WW really hit it in his post back on page 8, where he had brought up frequency and harmonics.

What happens when vibrations occur? Nodal points form at different frequencies, and certain molecules are excited while clustering upon these nodal points.
Anti-nodal points are where the molecules avoid going when they cluster, and a pattern is formed within the crystalinne structure of loose materials.

This effect is known as Cymatics.

If we apply the frequency and harmonics ideas, like 1WW so well put, we find that things can just relocate within this matrix we know as the aether.

Anything which vibrates has the ability to affect it's surroundings and the mass of whatever it is contained within.

When building my first and only lifter, we noticed a profound super high freqeuncy hissing or buzzing, even though the lifter ran from 40kv DC. So to say DC doesnt recreate some of the same effects that A/C does is probably jumping to that proverbial howitzer.

Our lifter buzzed and hummed and made all kinds of vibrational sounds and was clearly moving as well, and as we see in any physics book...vibration means movement.

So, what does vibration have to do with a lifter?

Much.

The lifter takes the DC and acts as an inverter of sorts, creating a vibrational field which allows the lifter to avoid the effects of whatever gravity is, and hence, due to the shift in it's actual frequency of existence being changed by the HVDC, it relocates to a higher plane, where it would rather be, like those nodal points I spoke of a few paragraphs back.

That little lifter is a tool for showing us the correlation between Tesla's all encompassing energy, and how things relocate within the matrix when their frequency of existence is changed or altered.

The little lifter has taught us a lesson, 1WW has pointed it out, and so we should file this away, for application to the next phase of lifter 101, a class put on and shared freely by a tiny assemblage of foil and balsa wood.

Well done 1WW, even though you may not be the big bad electrical genius here, you have hit the nail squarely on the head, my friend, and maybe some here will drop the dogma of past guesses, and get on with what is real and causes everything to look, feel, and be......what it is....pure vibration.

So, is a lifter all it seems?

Nope. ???

Do we know how it works?

Almost. ;)

Littleenki
 
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Linda Brown on July 01, 2012, 06:01:25 am
kISSES
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on July 01, 2012, 06:11:23 am
kISSES
And a heaping batch of HUGS!:D
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Mikado on July 01, 2012, 06:53:01 am
Yes, I see where You're going.  If I WANTED to know, and You confided in Me, it would be a pinecone, irrespective of the cost to You.  But it would not be so much the information that was the pinecone, but the confidence in Me.  In fact, if I loved pinecones, and You brought Me one, it would be Your though for Me that would be most valued.

When someOne asks, it is likely for Their edification - with some probability of having ulterior motives.

If edification is motive and You shared, the confidence still would be the treasure; the data appreciated - like the thought behind the pinecone is the treasure, the pinecone appreciated.

Thank You. Sometimes the greatest knowledge is not what we think it is.

Mikado
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Amaterasu on July 01, 2012, 06:57:32 am
[smile]
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: 1Worldwatcher on July 01, 2012, 06:59:59 am
Linda said:
Quote
But he got fascinated with the idea that there was some sort of " radiation" that seemed to be affecting his " units"..... he figured that it was Gravitation.... and then he wondered why it " varied" and after that.... he concluded that he was somehow in touch with the " Nervous system of the Universe"

This is what I am referring too Linda, I see the Universe as a living entity, though the largest in perspective realisation compared too our minimal encapsulating cranial capabilities, the "Frequency" I am referring to is exactly the "Synapse" of the Universes central nervous system, if you will, of producing none detected information that we have yet to tap.
I have seen all the UT vids, the PDF's and the research analogies and topics of discussions, but there is that one thing that over rides all the information given, "Not all of the information necessary is there for true identification of such devices or new sources of power/powerplant variables."
Z has brought something too my attention that may very well be a part of the whole, and I am hoping he will bring this out , in due time, but the implications of lessening the very principles of opposed mediums , such as Gravity, ambient pressures and vacuum scenarios are going to require the "Out of the Box" tangibility's for applications and research.
Deuems point's hold well with me, it requires hands on, real hard scientists too prevail in the endeavour, but at the same time, it seems we haven't even got the model on paper, as of yet. But, I know with the simplest of workers, we can build bridges that inspire and awe those who look upon it. And this is where the hard core scientific minds come in, too do the math, read the option's and figure out what would and would not be feasible.
I am a mere errand boy for this type of work that needs too be done, but am willing, ready and able to offer everything I have as an individual enlightened to the fact "I know this can be done!" kind of analogies.
And LE, you get what I am speaking of , there is a point with in frequency that effects all things, mineral, vegetable and mental, if we can find this elusive tangent, we would be the better for having found it, not like big Mil would do, but to configure what has been set before us to reach our ultimate goals. The Old school scientists didn't have the life span that was necessary for them to finish the works that they started, but they surely laid the maps out for us to initiate into our process of deductive and conclusive finding's.
We have studied the greats in this field, now lets take what they have and put it too the real test, and get the thing designed, built and understood what has too be done too proceed forward.

1Worldwatcher
Global Moderator
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Mikado on July 01, 2012, 07:07:08 am

I am also pretty sure if I ask this team again, What are you going to do with this tech? The answer will be I am sitting on it. If you already had a large enough team you would have done it already. What ever “it” is! So some how that idea has to be converted into reality, maybe with a contract. On the other hand if you had a couple of hundred million, most likely you would be here making deals and contracting people Yourself. So does an idea die because of the tool “money” or does the brain power here figure out a way to get around that hurdle and make it fair.
 
I guess we have 2 choices, make it happen somehow or sit at our computers till we die of old age and wonder if it really could of worked. Unless an idea is taken to the end, it is all for nothing in the long run. How many people take great ideas to their grave? The number one killer of these types of projects is greed! It stops more contracts than anything else. Even if we exchanged pinecones, someone would want too many.
 
Deuem

Spoken like someone that does not understand what "it" is.

If "someone" "had something" and they understood it and that understanding has both pro and cons to its use, perhaps they feel the need to think things through. Who better to do this then the person that "has something" and not some production engineer who really doesn't understand the core and is only looking at production.

Paraphrasing here - Take three days to think things through. Or act in haste, repent in leisure.

Just my opinion,

Mikado
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Mikado on July 01, 2012, 07:14:04 am
As I posed early in this thread and I think a few here may agree...the lifter is a tool to teach us, not to lift us.

Some have waxed philosophical now, and the thread has become quite full of corrrections and quoting, yet the little lifter has been pushed aside for these Confucius moments.

1WW really hit it in his post back on page 8, where he had brought up frequency and harmonics.

What happens when vibrations occur? Nodal points form at different frequencies, and certain molecules are excited while clustering upon these nodal points.
Anti-nodal points are where the molecules avoid going when they cluster, and a pattern is formed within the crystalinne structure of loose materials.

This effect is known as Cymatics.

If we apply the frequency and harmonics ideas, like 1WW so well put, we find that things can just relocate within this matrix we know as the aether.

Anything which vibrates has the ability to affect it's surroundings and the mass of whatever it is contained within.

When building my first and only lifter, we noticed a profound super high freqeuncy hissing or buzzing, even though the lifter ran from 40kv DC. So to say DC doesnt recreate some of the same effects that A/C does is probably jumping to that proverbial howitzer.

Our lifter buzzed and hummed and made all kinds of vibrational sounds and was clearly moving as well, and as we see in any physics book...vibration means movement.

So, what does vibration have to do with a lifter?

Much.

The lifter takes the DC and acts as an inverter of sorts, creating a vibrational field which allows the lifter to avoid the effects of whatever gravity is, and hence, due to the shift in it's actual frequency of existence being changed by the HVDC, it relocates to a higher plane, where it would rather be, like those nodal points I spoke of a few paragraphs back.

That little lifter is a tool for showing us the correlation between Tesla's all encompassing energy, and how things relocate within the matrix when their frequency of existence is changed or altered.

The little lifter has taught us a lesson, 1WW has pointed it out, and so we should file this away, for application to the next phase of lifter 101, a class put on and shared freely by a tiny assemblage of foil and balsa wood.

Well done 1WW, even though you may not be the big bad electrical genius here, you have hit the nail squarely on the head, my friend, and maybe some here will drop the dogma of past guesses, and get on with what is real and causes everything to look, feel, and be......what it is....pure vibration.

So, is a lifter all it seems?

Nope. ???

Do we know how it works?

Almost. ;)

Littleenki

That hissing you heard is the ionization. The frequency you observed is the consistent arcing that takes place where the ionization field builds to a certain point and then discharges and will repeat. This action is determined by the distance between the two points and the gradient between the two points.

Mikado
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Linda Brown on July 01, 2012, 07:38:17 am
and that odd odor you smell is ozone...O3....

Odd that you are talking about exactly what was demonstrated in 1955 in front of an Admiral who at first thought that his morning was being wasted. He left after the demonstration in a different state of mind.

The little thing " shook and hissed" then too.

http://www.smashwords.com/books/view/49963

The historical aspect of this development is all I can offer but of course you have to take into account that some here take issue with the credibility of that memoir. Read what I have said and then match notes with the lab results that you all will experience.
Fifty-seven years have gone by. Isn't that long enough? Maybe it isn't?   Linda
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: deuem on July 01, 2012, 07:44:16 am
I have some liesure time now so I added the date July 3rd to my notes to get back on this.
 
In the meantime my word "it" was not for me. If I knew what you all were thinking this lifter tech could do I would have never asked in the first place. I am not into to this type of hobby like you guys/gals are.
 
The "It" looks like it might have many spin offs from littleenkis space craft to your subs. Both of which are big government. My only point is, I see a tech that is older than I am and I have not seen any results ending in the helping of humans besides the air ion machine. If I am wrong please let me know. I have also seen a lot of inventors take things to the grave because of greed, not intelligence.
 
Sitting on it is an option. Working on it, to market is also. What ever "it" is.
 
So I will think about "it" for myself for awhile and get back if I get anywhere.
 
By the way, Deuem is not a production engineer....
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Mikado on July 01, 2012, 07:51:23 am
Lifter tech is the demonstration of EHD. To take it to the level of EG is wrong and shows a misunderstanding of terms.

Attempting to take Lifter Tech to commercialize it into EG is a blind alley. To commercialize Lifter Tech into some new form of an EHD pump is not a blind alley.

Mikado
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Linda Brown on July 01, 2012, 08:11:34 am
And all you have to do is look at the "Ionic Breeze" to see it in action as far as " pumping air"

And then there is the " loudspeaker" part of that which has strangely not been heard of since 1967.  Linda
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on July 01, 2012, 08:14:53 am
I think I will just put a team together and jump some Aliens, give em a good probing, and steal their ride.. seems a lot more practical

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/04images/Bluebird/dc6c43e86a4e.gif)
I voluteer, as long as I dont have to wear a red shirt!:D
LE
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: 1Worldwatcher on July 01, 2012, 08:15:07 am
Lifter tech is the demonstration of EHD. To take it to the level of EG is wrong and shows a misunderstanding of terms.

Attempting to take Lifter Tech to commercialize it into EG is a blind alley. To commercialize Lifter Tech into some new form of an EHD pump is not a blind alley.

Mikado

Drop the lifter stuff Mikado, we aren't even discussing "Lifter" anymore, we want to go beyond "Lifters" they have been "Explained" by you and so many other s so many times , it is getting old.
We are talking something relevant to using other forms of "L-I-F-T" possibilities.
And by the way "Deuem" is a very respected member here that has great insights too what we speak of, we can not be so brash when reading such things as a "Forum Page" lets say, you are off the mark of topical discussions, the real discussion is "What else is there for possible implementation's of the created Lift effects?"
The science you speak of is old news, northing but reflective intuitive "What not to do's" type of argument.
And I am sure that Deuem is totally aware of the Lifter applications and it's over byproducts.

1Worldwatcher
Global Moderator
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on July 01, 2012, 08:19:29 am
Quote
That hissing you heard is the ionization. The frequency you observed is the consistent arcing that takes place where the ionization field builds to a certain point and then discharges and will repeat. This action is determined by the distance between the two points and the gradient between the two points.

Mikado

Yes, it was cool, as we were young and had no idea what to expect! Kinda freaky in the dark, too!

So hissing and other sounds it made were vibrations...but what frequency I wonder?

Any way to check with a freq analyzer without getting fried? :o

Or maybe a spec analyzer would be better, as we could see the sounds as light.

Le
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Mikado on July 01, 2012, 08:45:26 am
Yes, it was cool, as we were young and had no idea what to expect! Kinda freaky in the dark, too!

So hissing and other sounds it made were vibrations...but what frequency I wonder?

Any way to check with a freq analyzer without getting fried? :o

Or maybe a spec analyzer would be better, as we could see the sounds as light.

Le

You could use a microphone to an amp and analyze the output on a calibrated time sweep oscilloscope or you could just use a frequency counter on the output of the amp.

Mikado
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Mikado on July 01, 2012, 08:51:56 am
Drop the lifter stuff Mikado, we aren't even discussing "Lifter" anymore, we want to go beyond "Lifters" they have been "Explained" by you and so many other s so many times , it is getting old.
We are talking something relevant to using other forms of "L-I-F-T" possibilities.
And by the way "Deuem" is a very respected member here that has great insights too what we speak of, we can not be so brash when reading such things as a "Forum Page" lets say, you are off the mark of topical discussions, the real discussion is "What else is there for possible implementation's of the created Lift effects?"
The science you speak of is old news, northing but reflective intuitive "What not to do's" type of argument.
And I am sure that Deuem is totally aware of the Lifter applications and it's over byproducts.

1Worldwatcher
Global Moderator

Here is what deuem said:


 
On my aspect, I will leave the electronics to you scientist guys. I have no intension to build a lifter. It is not my pinecone. The idea maybe is. What I do is to take an application and make it work in production.

I was responding to this paragraph and I believe that my comprehension was correct.

Okay, Lifter's are off limits. I will endeavour to make sure I don't slip.

So let me get this right, respected people are off limits to question? Just want to know my limitations.


Mikado
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on July 01, 2012, 09:10:46 am
Quote
So let me get this right, respected people are off limits to question? Just want to know my limitations.

I bet you feel like I do for posing alternative theories on another thread where I was basically told by th OP to get off my thread!

Hm karma.....
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: deuem on July 01, 2012, 09:22:43 am
Hi Mikado, When I wrote "the Idea maybe is" I was thinking in a possitive manner of lifting things such as frieight. Very heavy loads. As I had mentiond before somewhere. A great deal of fuel is used around the world in this field. Daily we have huge container ships leave ports. Cargo planes criss crossing the skys and trailler trucks by the millions. It is a field that could use the next generation of some type of lifting to get rid of all the friction and clean up our air if possible.
 
A simple car should lose 1/3 to 1/2 of it weight just in all of the tires and gearing. If you have noticed I have not asked anyone for any details or secrets. I am asking a general question as to what is next. I like next! I do hate to see a very good idea go down the toilet because of money or secrets. There are ways around both.
 
I also never do any of my work for the governmet any more because one of my projects got used to kill and not help. Something I have to live with and I swore I would never do it again. If it can't help people I don't do it. What ever It is...
 
So far I enjoy our conversations and I hope they continue. If there is anything I can do to help nudge something into existance, I enjoy that. If I can help spark a start with the right Q&A, I feel all warm and happy.
 
Thanks, deuem
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: 1Worldwatcher on July 01, 2012, 09:36:32 am
Mikado said:
Quote
So let me get this right, respected people are off limits to question? Just want to know my limitations.

We already know the physics of a lifter mikado, we don't need to go farther with the explanations, we are not building lifters or creating ionized particles, we are talking relative possibilities of D"Duplicating " the effect a lifter does with out building a lifter as it were.
I have no problem with you not saying anything, it is up too you, but on the same coin, we are talking "Apples and Oranges" when you continually bring up the lifter topic.
And by the way "Linda seems to respect you for being a scientist of the EG/EMF/EHD department, what else you got in yourbag of tricks leaning towards lets say "Frequency Variables" but with out audible sound implications?"

1Worldwatcher
Global Moderator
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on July 01, 2012, 09:41:07 am
Excellent idea, Dueum, a sort of gravity reducer, instead of an full on negation of it.
It would be good, because the fuel bill would go way down!

I wonder if cars with this type of system would become buoyant like a vessel, and be able to plane across the roadway, in a controlled manner of course, and once at a certain speed, the cars could actually hover due to ground effects.

Even with a small percentage of weight reduction, the car companies could then work on outdoing each other in designing cars which have a better version of the tech, like a 350 versus a four banger.

Roller cams versus regular tappets.

Cetainly the performance market would be ripe for development, and soon we would have not only speed limts, but lift limits as well!

Cheers
Littleenki
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Linda Brown on July 01, 2012, 09:46:05 am
I am going riding for a couple of hours. You guys have a real good time. I will catch up later.

Littleenki have you gotten your envelope yet? Another one leaving today.... if I can stop laughing about your last observation!  Linda
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on July 01, 2012, 09:48:54 am
Eyes peeled from the crows nest, captain, no sign of land yet!
Going to get some mulch, so will be interested to see what pops up here later!
Damn I wish I was riding, too!
Horses are so cool, and they agree with everything we say, as long as its preceded by a sugar cube!LOL!
Safe riding!
Le
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Pimander on July 01, 2012, 09:57:55 am
Excellent idea, Dueum, a sort of gravity reducer, instead of an full on negation of it.
It would be good, because the fuel bill would go way down!
It would reduce the cost of lifting significantly.  However, most of the energy used to power conventional flight or in propulsion of generators is not used to oppose gravity.

In conventional flight the lift is created by the forward movement of the aeroplane.  Most of the resistance to that is friction of air (pushing the plane throught the air) and drag.  In a generator the turbine and generator coil are mainly having to work against friction.   This means that reducing gravity is useful for novel flight (which is obviously exciting, think saucers) but not conventional types of electricity generators.

To make EG or similar more useful we would have to do something like lower the effect of gravity of a fluid lowering its apparent mass, lift it up and then used normal gravity levels to generate the power when the fluid is "pulled back down" by gravity.  If some of the power could be used to re-lift the fluid and some siphoned off you would have yourself a perpetual motion machine. ;)

P.S.  Imagine lifting e water at a lower mass than normal then using the same water to power a water mill attached to a generator at it's normal mass.  You would have a net gain in power.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Amaterasu on July 01, 2012, 10:26:59 am
In thinking on those lines...  Can You INCREASE the "gravity?" So the water is "lighter" going up and much "heavier" going down?  And in fact, do You need water?  The paddles of the paddlewheel made lighter as they go up and heavier as they go down...

Just random thought.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Pimander on July 01, 2012, 10:33:37 am
Can You INCREASE the "gravity?" So the water is "lighter" going up and much "heavier" going down?  And in fact, do You need water?  The paddles of the paddlewheel made lighter as they go up and heavier as they go down...
You're thinking along similar lines to me.

Now, if the ether is a fluid (not empty space) and how it interacts with matter is the key (via field affects) we need to list all the ways we can alter ethers properties.

Magnetism can make it behave differently.  (EM field effects)

Matter can make it behave differently (denser matter => more gravity)

Your turn guys.....  You can't expect little me to do all the work.

I know this might seem basic to you all.  However, the answer to many of the biggest questions is usually simple and right under our noses.  You may have all missed something. ;)
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Amaterasu on July 01, 2012, 10:50:38 am
Well, it's pretty clear the Biefeld-Brown Effect is also an aether-related effect...  Gravitation.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on July 01, 2012, 12:05:01 pm
In thinking on those lines...  Can You INCREASE the "gravity?" So the water is "lighter" going up and much "heavier" going down?  And in fact, do You need water?  The paddles of the paddlewheel made lighter as they go up and heavier as they go down...

Just random thought.
A very interesting random thought!
Le
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: SarK0Y on July 01, 2012, 12:43:10 pm
It has been said that Electrogravitics has been suppressed...

Yet even grade school kids with a fewm bucks can build a lifter and send a mouse aloft...

So once we have the principle of building these things...

WHY is there not one scientist who has made a bigger one?

Amicus, Just 4 Veritas sake, we can make small pyramids, but cannot Great Ones. size makes damned differences in techniques to realize. i'd guess any Electrogravity effects are based upon interaction with Earth magnetic field, thereby the heavier object the stronger EM fields we need to deal with. seems mp-ramjet gonna be more useful to put payload on LEO & playin' with Gravity is next step after mp-ramjet, VASIMIR, SPT - 290 & so on  ;)
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Mikado on July 01, 2012, 06:13:02 pm
I bet you feel like I do for posing alternative theories on another thread where I was basically told by th OP to get off my thread!

Hm karma.....

And he was correct for what you were saying was not following what he was talking about even though what he said you thought you understood but what you heard was not what he said.

Mikado
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Mikado on July 01, 2012, 06:27:40 pm
Mikado said:
We already know the physics of a lifter mikado, we don't need to go farther with the explanations, we are not building lifters or creating ionized particles, we are talking relative possibilities of D"Duplicating " the effect a lifter does with out building a lifter as it were.
I have no problem with you not saying anything, it is up too you, but on the same coin, we are talking "Apples and Oranges" when you continually bring up the lifter topic.
And by the way "Linda seems to respect you for being a scientist of the EG/EMF/EHD department, what else you got in yourbag of tricks leaning towards lets say "Frequency Variables" but with out audible sound implications?"

1Worldwatcher
Global Moderator

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=1641.msg22911#msg22911

I believe I already said that Lifter's are off limits and I wouldn't bring them up but you seem to be wanting to continue? Why?

As to the Lifter topic...do you even read the threads? or do you just look for excuses for actions? I did not bring up the subject of Lifters:

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=1641.msg21045#msg21045

...and it is on page one. Why don't you comment to that person and tell them that you have heard enough about Lifters. This person went so far as to post pictures and "how -to's"

So, before you get on my case anymore in this matter, take it up with the original poster.

As to anything in my "bag of tricks" you have made it abundantly clear that you wouldn't know or understand what they are. But then that is my opinion based upon how well you explain yourself. Clearly there is a bee in your bonnet when it comes to me.

As to my saying anything or not, ... not your call and frankly, take the mental image of Rhett Butler in the closing scene of Gone with the Wind and substitute 1Worldwathcher for Scarlett.

My best and have a better tomorrow,

Mikado

Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: zorgon on July 01, 2012, 06:30:04 pm
Oh NOW I get it :D


I come before you, to stand behind you, To tell you something I know nothing about. Next Thursday, which is Good Friday, There will be a mothers' meeting for fathers only. Admission is free, pay at the door, Pull up a seat and sit on the floor. We will be discussing the four corners of the round table.

Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Mikado on July 01, 2012, 06:31:59 pm
Hi Mikado, When I wrote "the Idea maybe is" I was thinking in a possitive manner of lifting things such as frieight. Very heavy loads. As I had mentiond before somewhere. A great deal of fuel is used around the world in this field. Daily we have huge container ships leave ports. Cargo planes criss crossing the skys and trailler trucks by the millions. It is a field that could use the next generation of some type of lifting to get rid of all the friction and clean up our air if possible.
 
A simple car should lose 1/3 to 1/2 of it weight just in all of the tires and gearing. If you have noticed I have not asked anyone for any details or secrets. I am asking a general question as to what is next. I like next! I do hate to see a very good idea go down the toilet because of money or secrets. There are ways around both.
 
I also never do any of my work for the governmet any more because one of my projects got used to kill and not help. Something I have to live with and I swore I would never do it again. If it can't help people I don't do it. What ever It is...
 
So far I enjoy our conversations and I hope they continue. If there is anything I can do to help nudge something into existance, I enjoy that. If I can help spark a start with the right Q&A, I feel all warm and happy.
 
Thanks, deuem

Perhaps the idea of multiple stages.

Picture the Flame jet Generator in your mind. When you look at it, there are stages with HV capacitors across each stage. The key here is "stages".

What if a Lifter were constructed in stacks, one upon another, the highest one creating a flow to feed the next one down and so on.

I don't really know but that is something that I have never seen attempted.

Just a thought from outside of a box...oh, and my apologies to the all for bringing up Lifters.

Mikado
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Mikado on July 01, 2012, 06:33:21 pm
Oh NOW I get it :D


I come before you, to stand behind you, To tell you something I know nothing about. Next Thursday, which is Good Friday, There will be a mothers' meeting for fathers only. Admission is free, pay at the door, Pull up a seat and sit on the floor. We will be discussing the four corners of the round table.

..Ha!...

...you are too funny.

Mikado
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on July 01, 2012, 07:53:04 pm
And he was correct for what you were saying was not following what he was talking about even though what he said you thought you understood but what you heard was not what he said.

Mikado
Begin non typical Le moment...... :D
I thought what you said was not what you thought, but what you meant was not what we sought.
Get up on your horse, and tell the whole world, your mouth just cant open without your tongue being curled.
You bring nothing but lameness, it really is true, but the words youve to offer, are nothing but spew.
Sit back in your shack, and make yourself smug, until your wrongness is swept, up under the rug.
Take a look at yourself, and the HUT as it seems, your superior self, is a thing of your dreams.
As this limerick shows, my disdain for you is great, but pales in comparison, to the discourse you create.
They left you in a heap, your acquainances from the HUT, and now youve come here, to be a thorn in the butt.
So take this with, a big grain of salt, and know my temporary change of character here, has all been your fault.
Le
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Amaterasu on July 01, 2012, 11:54:04 pm
"I see," said the blind carpenter to His deaf son, as He picked up His hammer and saw...
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: hobbit on July 02, 2012, 01:11:20 am
I see said the blind man to the deaf mute.

The hobbit wore a gold ring that made Him invisable, but was He invisable??, or was it that the observer couldn't see Him???

The observer sends out signals that return carrying information of whatever resistances are contacted .
These resistances are recognised and converted into a holographic interpretation inside the sealed cranium.

If an area of high resistance is formed around the hobbit by the golden ring, then the signals will be diverted about that area, and return to the observer with no recognition of what is inside the super high resistive area.
The hobbit will be still there but behind a shield, as such.
I hope this is as clear as mud, but don't be suckers and block off your tubes thinking of it.

tibboh
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Amaterasu on July 02, 2012, 01:28:51 am
I suppose it depends on how We define "invisible..."  If it is "unable to be seen," then in Your descrition, regardless of method, the hobbit is invisible.  [smile]
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Pimander on July 02, 2012, 03:38:50 am
I come before you, to stand behind you, To tell you something I know nothing about. Next Thursday, which is Good Friday, There will be a mothers' meeting for fathers only. Admission is free, pay at the door, Pull up a seat and sit on the floor. We will be discussing the four corners of the round table.
OR

One fine day in the middle of the night,
Two dead men got up to fight,
Back to back they faced each other,
Drew their swords and shot each other,
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on July 02, 2012, 05:40:58 am

I hope this is as clear as mud, but don't be suckers and block off your tubes thinking of it.

tibboh
[/quote]

As clear as the rain upon the window pane....;)

Hobbit shield works, and in use quite frequently lately!

Le  ;)
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Mikado on July 02, 2012, 06:39:37 am
Begin non typical Le moment...... :D
I thought what you said was not what you thought, but what you meant was not what we sought.
Get up on your horse, and tell the whole world, your mouth just cant open without your tongue being curled.
You bring nothing but lameness, it really is true, but the words youve to offer, are nothing but spew.
Sit back in your shack, and make yourself smug, until your wrongness is swept, up under the rug.
Take a look at yourself, and the HUT as it seems, your superior self, is a thing of your dreams.
As this limerick shows, my disdain for you is great, but pales in comparison, to the discourse you create.
They left you in a heap, your acquainances from the HUT, and now youve come here, to be a thorn in the butt.
So take this with, a big grain of salt, and know my temporary change of character here, has all been your fault.
Le

You are in control of any change in your character and no one else.

Practice what you preach.

Mikado
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: deuem on July 02, 2012, 06:49:17 am
I would like to follow up on a note that Zorgon wrote and I have also wrote about. "Size"
 
Maybe this has happened and I don't know.
 
If people can get a lifter to work at 2 or 3 feet in size, why not just scale everything up to 10 x or 50x this scale and see what happens. It is only balsa wood and foil. People do this with kites for example. If anyone can answer this with out reveling top secrets, I would like to hear it. My only motive in asking this is curiosity. Seeing how I weigh about 800 times what a mouse weighs. It is going to take that Phoenix triangle to get just me in the air. Is there a simple answer to this?
 
In reference to the actual reason for it lifting is my second question that I will save for July 3rd. I am doing some homework and need time to think about it.
 
Thanks Deuem
 
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: deuem on July 02, 2012, 08:28:10 am
Good evening folks,
 
This response is in general to a question Mr. Littleenki asked me but any one can chime in. The floor is always open…
 
HI, as I posted before I found a square lifter rig with 4 triangles on UTbe and downloaded it to take a look. The video has some problems for my work so I will state them first.
 
The lifter is nice shinny aluminum!
 
It is sitting on a white table!
 
The general lighting is high. Even hard to see the wires in the video!
     
OK, I did some frame grabs at different locations in the video.
 
The following opinion is only based on a very limited 8 photo shots in an environment that is not so well suited for me. This number of few shots and with the problems is no where near any scientific results you would all like to see. I am just sharing WIP. Work in process…

So read it just as the first Deuem test that needs a lot of work…..
   
I found no atmospheric interference at all.
 
I found only a very small glow around the wires and only if they were up against black. Against the white back ground, zip.
 
I would expect to find an air current flow that I might pick up, I found none.
 
When the wires were in the light I could not see them at all.
 
I found nothing on the aluminum at all. Way to shinny for me to tell anything.
 
Ok now for some guessing. Please don’t shot Deuem. I would expect to find at least a very small tear drop air disturbance under each wire where the reported air flow should be. Maybe blowing some smoke in the photo would help. A little lingering puff should do. It looks like the wires are running cold for their size. The time I caught some action against the black might have been from light reflection but it was constant. Need more work done on this.
 
In general, I don’t know what I found or didn’t find means anything. I would like to do a smoke shot with back bounced lighting on a black back ground to remove stray light and shine.
 
Now if anyone has a lifter and what’s that tested, either post it here or email me with it. If emailed I will keep it off line and never post the photo. If you want to, then you post it. I do think it would be fair to at least post the results with no photos since this is where it originated. Again by the supplier, not me!
 
If anyone comes across a video in the dark or with the above mentioned items please let me know and I will give it a try.
     
In my personal opinion at this moment which is not backed up by any facts at all, just sharing is.
 
It looked to me that the lifter jumped way to fast to be flying from just some Ion wind. In the video it jumped to about 9 inches high in 3 or so frames. I can go back and run the math for speed later. But that is pretty darn fast with no propeller or rocket engine to assist. Like I mentioned above, if it is wind, I have 2 problems, I can’t see the disturbance yet and why so fast. This is my food for thought and in no way am I trying to down any ones ideas, just bring some up. As you might guess, I am not leaning towards this being the Ion lifting it but another force and the Ion trail a simple bi-product of the electricity. Bottom line: to lift that much mass, I would expect some kind of down draft. I will remain open minded on this till after many tests have been run. I think a smoke test should be run. It should show the disturbance in the air. Maybe even run a strobe on the unit while filming.
 
Thank you,
Deuem
 
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on July 02, 2012, 10:35:58 am
Hey, Dueum, its good to see youve gotten a shot of a lifter in operation!
Id send a pic of mine, but its not able to be fired up now, maybe later next week.

What we found when operating it, was there was a movement of air around it and it was quite strong at times. Also the corona was only visible in the dark, and had a slight blueish tint.

It popped right up to the ends of its tethers, and stayed there with ease, and showed some odd sounds,the usual stuff, hissing and buzzing, and I have to think that those sounds should manifest as light differences for you.

Heres a site with some good info on lifters and the tech involved, with good pics you may find better than what you have now.

Www.Tesladownunder.com

With all the corona discharge in the air, it seems there should be some odd anomalies in your Dueum process, but as Ive never actually used it I cant offer any guesses other than the force seen is something we still have no clue as to where and what it stems from, besides the bb effect.

Try that site for better pics, and Ill get back soon!

Cheers!
Littleenki
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: deuem on July 02, 2012, 10:50:12 am
Thanks and I will go to that site. Can you get your hands on a smoke stick? Oh, Yea, night shots with zip bang boom should work well also. I really want to catch that air running by and figure out the lift speed. This vid I worked off of is 95% white and there is little to make out. Need dark and smoke and a night shot like the Orbs no flash.
Deuem
 
Edit, Just went out to that site, I can have a field day on the tesla coils. those guys pull out all the stops. TY
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: deuem on July 05, 2012, 09:44:31 am
I told you all that I had downloaded a square lifter video with 4 triangles in it.
 
I have now measured the video as best I can and will state some results.
 
This is not a scientific paper. Just UT video results the best I could in CAD.
 
The video was at 30fps
 
The entire lifting process took 16 frames of time till it hit the tethers end.
 
For the first few frames it rattled around and gained about 1 inch in height bouncing tip to tip
 
Then it lose a bit of height in the next frame.
 
In the next few frames it did the same thing now up to 2 inches
 
Then it lose a bit of height in the next frame.
 
In the next 6 frames it jumped to 8 inches and stopped. The jump being around 6 inches. 1313mm
 
I will not count the last frame because it is hard to tell when it hit its tether
 
So in the 5 frames of jump it reached a speed of 17.6 MPH
 
What is difficult to understand is the rate of climb. It is not a ramp up in velocity. It was pretty constant all the way with the 3d frame being slightly faster than the other 4. A very slight curve in the middle.
 
Now I know this is just a UT video and it is very difficult to work up exact numbers on this kind of test, but it was the best I could do with what I have. It would be nice to evaluate a better and longer lift under better conditions. But I feel it did answer some of my own questions on the lift part. It was almost instant from the moment it stopped shaking. It seems to have a constant acceleration. Again I would like to stress it is only 1 video and I would need to run a lot more tests to see what they all do. I do not know of anything that has a constant lift. Maybe some of you can chime in on that.
 
The lifter also took 5 frames to free fall when the power stopped. Hum? I did not run the fall for numbers.
 
If I can get other lift videos, I will look them over the same way.
 
The actual height numbers in millimeters
 
      0  14  41  69  118  328  324  329  317  494  488  730  1009  1363  1598  1801  1944
 
The difference in Height frame to frame in millimeters
 
      0  14  27  28  49  210  -4  5  -12  177  -6  242  279  354  235  203  143
 
Thanks for reading, if I messed up on any of the Math I am sure one of you will catch it. HOD
 
Deuem
 
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: rose on July 05, 2012, 11:00:50 am
That was very cool to read, Deuem. It makes me see in a new way and what I see is amazing!

Thanks,
rose
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: rose on July 05, 2012, 11:17:42 am
Everytime I look at those numbers, I get a chill. The frame to frame change is so dramatic.

rose
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: zorgon on July 05, 2012, 12:24:50 pm
This is a GOOD forum Linda.

Thank you we try...

Quote
I have found a good deal of information here, even if writers don't respond where to purchase their books.


Perhaps that person is not responding because certain people here have made that person feel unwelcome? Just a thought

As to those books they are not for sale, they are small free ebooks available on the Living Moon, under that authors section on the front page of the website

Quote
I have found that the principles that John Lear discusses resemble a good deal of Tibetan/Buddhist teachings.

Yes interesting that  ;)

Quote
I came here to create a presence

Seems you have :D
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: zorgon on July 05, 2012, 12:46:25 pm
I would like to follow up on a note that Zorgon wrote and I have also wrote about. "Size"
 
Maybe this has happened and I don't know.
 
If people can get a lifter to work at 2 or 3 feet in size, why not just scale everything up to 10 x or 50x this scale and see what happens. It is only balsa wood and foil. People do this with kites for example. If anyone can answer this with out reveling top secrets, I would like to hear it. My only motive in asking this is curiosity. Seeing how I weigh about 800 times what a mouse weighs. It is going to take that Phoenix triangle to get just me in the air. Is there a simple answer to this?
 
In reference to the actual reason for it lifting is my second question that I will save for July 3rd. I am doing some homework and need time to think about it.
 
Thanks Deuem

Been busy...

Did you get an answer to that yet?

 ::)
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: zorgon on July 05, 2012, 12:59:46 pm
Where is the Gold Ring?

[youtube]Gk4Ntcq5uNg[/youtube]
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: hobbit on July 05, 2012, 01:06:44 pm
Zorgon,
Cast Your EYE at this,
http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/daily-tpod/
The all seeing eye is an electrical consequence , as is gravity...light... heat .. cold ..matter....You.
hobbit
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: deuem on July 05, 2012, 11:56:11 pm
Everytime I look at those numbers, I get a chill. The frame to frame change is so dramatic.

rose

Well, a big "thank you" Rose, I guess I did this just for you. I am glad at least one person read it. The rest seem to be very busy.
 
It is Ok, we are moving on and up.
 
Deuem
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: hobbit on July 06, 2012, 12:05:22 am

Well, a big "thank you" Rose, I guess I did this just for you. I am glad at least one person read it. The rest seem to be very busy.
 
It is Ok, we are moving on and up.
 
Deuem
I for another read it with great interest, as I have in all of your most valuable and appreciated efforts.
I always look for sequencing...been as I find so much in nature.
hobbit
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: zorgon on July 06, 2012, 01:09:27 am
The all seeing eye is an electrical consequence , as is gravity...light... heat .. cold ..matter....You.

Very esoteric, Hobbit, and a very interesting link

But I would think the Eye of Sauron would be more the all seeing eye

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/41pegasus/04images/Space/eye-o-sauron-01a.jpg)
Image Credit: NASA/JPL/HUBBLE
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Pimander on July 06, 2012, 01:16:26 am
I think the eye has at least 3 meanings/levels. ;)
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: deuem on July 06, 2012, 04:14:33 am
A chart for the numbers I posted
 
(http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa458/deuem/FlightPath.png)
 
Deuem
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: rose on July 06, 2012, 09:25:48 am
Thank you, Deuem,

The transform that happened between frames 5 & 11 is interesting to see. If the power supply was constant, then it appears as if the lifter "shifted gears"  at that point.

rose

ETA: Perhaps you would have more comments, D. if you posted your results in the EG thread. Also, forgive me if I missed it, but where and what is Series 1?
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Mikado on July 06, 2012, 09:48:37 am

Well, a big "thank you" Rose, I guess I did this just for you. I am glad at least one person read it. The rest seem to be very busy.
 
It is Ok, we are moving on and up.
 
Deuem

What needs to be done further is that a chart needs to be made showing the relationships of Voltage vs. Height for a fixed device.

Being a fixed device certain variables remain constant and a correlation between the above can be easily seen.

Just my two cents,

Mikado
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: rose on July 06, 2012, 09:55:13 am
Thank you, Mikado, for coming back to this topic.

Also Deuem, though I thought you said the rate of climb was constant,  but it appears to slow down toward the end.  It looks like the peak performance came between 11-15. Did I misread you?

rose
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Linda Brown on July 06, 2012, 10:01:06 am
Rose,

I thought that you would appreciate this. During one of those very early tests ( 1955) the unit leapt to the end of its tether so forcefully that it broke itself in half. Dad just walked up to it, surveyed the damage and said........ DRATS!

makes me laugh now!   Linda
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Mikado on July 06, 2012, 10:02:14 am
Thank you, Mikado, for coming back to this topic.

Also Deuem, though I thought you said the rate of climb was constant,  but it appears to slow down toward the end.  It looks like the peak performance came between 11-15. Did I misread you?

rose

Experiments done by someone within my group indicate that a plateau will occur. The experiments were going to escalate into joystick control but based upon the results that were obtained it was deemed unfeasible to continue due to the limitations exhibited by the lifters.

This does not mean that I am not condoning further studies I am just saying that as it stands at the moment, lifters may, if not are, a dead end. That doesn't mean that something useful cannot be obtained from their use.

Nice job deuem.

Mikado
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: rose on July 06, 2012, 10:15:41 am
Maybe they are a dead end as far as a technology, but I appreciate the learning experience that Deuem has provided. I've never been able to get it so concretely from watching the videos.

rose
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Linda Brown on July 06, 2012, 10:26:49 am
And as Deuem is able to demonstrate. Maybe there is value in looking at things again... with fresh eyes.  Linda
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Cosmic4life on July 06, 2012, 10:29:01 am
Well its okay because the 8th grade kiddies are doing it :D

But I did find it interesting that Hal said TT Brown TOLD him to forget about it


Lifter Movie for 8th grade science project

[youtube]ZgcSdabSb2w[/youtube]

Now surely will all the brains we have here, all the tech we have here, and all the original notes we have hear...

...surely we can build a bigger flying boat, yes? I have a few spare bucks I can sink into such a project :D

To day a mouse... tomorrow a ferret next week... a trip to the Moon :D

I think the perfect vehicle for lifter technology is Airships.

An Airship can lift the power supply and form the structure for Ion Lifter propulsion....Helium Airship...Small Nuke Reactor....Steam Turbine/Generator...

Wish i had a couple of million bucks ...

Cosmic..
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Linda Brown on July 06, 2012, 10:35:30 am
Save your money Cosmic.... there are even more important concepts trying to broach the surface.

Linda
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Cosmic4life on July 06, 2012, 10:39:53 am
Save your money Cosmic.... there are even more important concepts trying to broach the surface.

Linda

I like Airships...call me a romantic.....what's the rush zipping around in a zippy UFO ?   When you can cruise the sky in an Airship.....sit out on a balcony at 20,000 ft.....

 8)

Cosmic..
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Linda Brown on July 06, 2012, 10:46:57 am
I think that Canaca is developing a fleet that uses electrogravitics somewhere in its system. The name MANTA comes to mind but you may have to check me on that. I do not believe that is classified. If it is.... oops.  Linda
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: zorgon on July 06, 2012, 11:16:49 am
I like Airships...call me a romantic.....what's the rush zipping around in a zippy UFO ? 

Russians agree with you :D

(http://www.instablogsimages.com/1/2012/04/07/ekip_image_title_m19xl.jpg)

I think I will do a thread on Airships  Then and Now :D
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Cosmic4life on July 06, 2012, 11:19:03 am
Russians agree with you :D

(http://www.instablogsimages.com/1/2012/04/07/ekip_image_title_m19xl.jpg)

I think I will do a thread on Airships  Then and Now :D

Excellent... 8)

Looking forward to the thread. :D

Cosmic..
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Linda Brown on July 06, 2012, 11:20:41 am
Oh me too, me too.... Remember the movie the Golden Compass? Wondrous airships!!!!! With engines pushing them gently..... glowing blue!!!!  Linda
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: hobbit on July 06, 2012, 11:22:08 am
Very esoteric, Hobbit, and a very interesting link

But I would think the Eye of Sauron would be more the all seeing eye

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/41pegasus/04images/Space/eye-o-sauron-01a.jpg)
Image Credit: NASA/JPL/HUBBLE

This is an electric universe, not exactly as Dirac thought.
http://directrelativity.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/dirac-sea-programming.html

This is a matrix based universe of geometric form.
Resonance permeates this in a duality of spin.

The ring is formulated upon polygons, the illusion is of circuler .

Creation requires the duality to become, annihilation is when the grim reaper of one spin takes back.
hobbit ramblings
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Linda Brown on July 06, 2012, 11:24:50 am
And maybe someone from the NRO can find their way here to explain a little more than they have already released about " intelligence platforms at " great altitudes" that have a " hang time " ......of .... I dunno..... forever?   ;)  Linda
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on July 06, 2012, 11:32:15 am
Hobbit ramblings?
Not quite...more like brilliant observations.

Dirac can sink within his sea, and we can throw him a polygon...

Le ramblings...:D
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Mikado on July 06, 2012, 12:22:49 pm
Maybe they are a dead end as far as a technology, but I appreciate the learning experience that Deuem has provided. I've never been able to get it so concretely from watching the videos.

rose

Actually rose, I think a good deal of usefulness could be derived from the technology. Remember, it is EHD and that can be used as a pump.

Now, keeping that in mind (pump that is), an internal combustion engine is nothing more than an air pump.

I just believe it is dead end when looking at a form of space propulsion and other applications possibly.

Mikado
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: deuem on July 06, 2012, 11:02:54 pm
Thank you, Mikado, for coming back to this topic.

Also Deuem, though I thought you said the rate of climb was constant,  but it appears to slow down toward the end.  It looks like the peak performance came between 11-15. Did I misread you?

rose

Yes Rose, I saw this as constant until it got tied up in the hold down strings. You can see it bounced at the top and came back down. I only counted the climb frames for the constant acceleration, once it shifted gears as you put it. So it went 1st, 2nd and up on 3rd. Hit the hold down wires and bounced.  This is why I said we need to look at a higher/longer test and also a view from the side against a tape measure or marker arrows set at certain heights.
 
I did not mention the name of the video nor post the link. It is easy to find on YT, it was in the first page. I think this was the name: Square high voltage lifter 40x40cm. But I think I renamed it. The unit is 40cm square with 4 divided compartments inside in the shape of triangles. You know me and UT, I am very lucky even to have downloaded the vid to begin with. The link crashed and I lost the connection but got the vid first. If I can find it I will post the link.
 
I was most interested to see if I could find a field around the wires. I found none to speak of. I did think at first I might find a nice air flow pattern, none. Some research on line has shown me that the Ion lift part is less than 1/3 the power needed to make these lift. So unless I can find this huge air mass moving over the parts, I think it is just a very simple by-product of the electric field. So this is an opinion only, no facts included.
 
Deuem
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: deuem on July 06, 2012, 11:19:19 pm
Actually rose, I think a good deal of usefulness could be derived from the technology. Remember, it is EHD and that can be used as a pump.

Now, keeping that in mind (pump that is), an internal combustion engine is nothing more than an air pump.

I just believe it is dead end when looking at a form of space propulsion and other applications possibly.

Mikado

First Mikado, thank you for the Kudos back a page. I am 12 hours off your time line so it gets threads mixed up.
 
Two Ideas for thought.
 
As I had mentioned before, we the world are using most of the oil to move stuff around the world. Tankers, container ships, Jet air lines and so on.  There has been some break troughs using this tech to propel Air ships around so they are run for free. The outer shell can have the latest solar power tech feeding a system of lifters to generate thrust. It is a ways out but in the realm of dreams. Most dreams can come true.
 
Pumps. This is a valid idea. Needs looking into I will add it to my list. The pump that costs me the most money right now is my AC. Moving all that gas around is expensive. I hope you can see a compressor as a pump? The fan is pennies.
 
Deuem
 
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: deuem on July 06, 2012, 11:40:12 pm
What needs to be done further is that a chart needs to be made showing the relationships of Voltage vs. Height for a fixed device.

Being a fixed device certain variables remain constant and a correlation between the above can be easily seen.

Just my two cents,

Mikado

That test would be rather easy to do if one has a lifter and records the data on film and paper. If anyone does this, please add a nice small red ball somewhere in the center top with cross hairs for motion tracking. I need a better target. Ground zero needs a better line also. More frames per second would be better also.
 
I guess what you are thinking is at some point it will hover and stop lifting. You also mentioned joystick. It does make sense so far that if the power could be regulated it should have a lift that you want. Maybe over power the unit and control it better.
 
So far every thing I have seen is what I would call uncontrolled flight. Once it breaks the ground shutter drops into 3rd gear it is off to the stars. Well we don't really know how far it would go when it is tethered.
 
Another Test: Has anyone tried to lift one of these in the air current of a nice size fan. Will the fans wind destroy it or have no affect.
 
From a previous test question: I have now seen in my research on the web ( if that is acceptable ) that this unit can be turned on its side and flown in a circle. How interesting that is. I would like to see video of that one.
 
Deuem
 
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: deuem on July 07, 2012, 01:43:01 am
This is a snapshot from the video I measured.
 
(http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa458/deuem/ThelifterImeasured.png)
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: PLAYSWITHMACHINES on July 07, 2012, 07:20:54 am
Oh my, i'm still on page 12 LOL!

At least this thread has survived ::)

Deuem:
Quote
In general, I don’t know what I found or didn’t find means anything. I would like to do a smoke shot with back bounced lighting on a black back ground to remove stray light and shine.
 
Now if anyone has a lifter and what’s that tested, either post it here or email me with it

Sounds like fun! I might have a go, i have some new geometric ideas for lifters i need to check out anyway....

What kind of lighting is best? Halogen, tungsten, flourescent, LED ???
Back to the personality-bashing, or does it stop after page 12?
Let's keep it real, folks :P
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: PLAYSWITHMACHINES on July 07, 2012, 07:34:44 am
Deuem:
Quote
That test would be rather easy to do if one has a lifter and records the data on film and paper. If anyone does this, please add a nice small red ball somewhere in the center top with cross hairs for motion tracking. I need a better target. Ground zero needs a better line also. More frames per second would be better also.

Can do 8)

Quote
From a previous test question: I have now seen in my research on the web ( if that is acceptable ) that this unit can be turned on its side and flown in a circle. How interesting that is. I would like to see video of that one.

Me too, bro 8) 8)

(aargh more typo's, keyboard worn out due to excessive posting :P)
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: deuem on July 07, 2012, 07:54:59 am
Hi PWM, I think the bashing has stopped and all is well now.
 
For the back ground, flat black with no shine, no direct light, all bounced off of something else. I want to see the lifter, no the lights.
 
I can draw something up if you wish. Tungsten would be my favorite to start with. I am not looking for an arc; I am looking for the ion wind. I do not think we will find any to speak of. I think the camera will need a smoke stick to show it, and then I could get a pattern of the light. On the smoke you will have to play with the light, till you get it worked out. The smoke test can be done in a static rig. A 90 degree bend held in a vise should do the trick. A section should either create a whirlwind or nothing.
 
To all, I have now tested with Deuem about a dozen lifters and have not been able to pick up any disturbance in the air. None of the lifters had the perfect conditions for testing. But neither do UFOs.
 
I am waiting for an associate to return in 2 months. We are thinking of joining the lifter gang and beyond. He is our electrical guru.
 
Also, PMW, if you don't mind.  As far as I know neither PMW nor Deuem have any prior workings with any one on this site and I don't know PMW from before. So this is a good non bias thing. Is that correct? #2, I have never done a lifter or even heard of Dr. Brown until I joined this site.
 
It will be interesting for me to see if I can get the Ch1na Deuem team up and going on this. The least I can do is try. If we do, I can post a lot of results.
 
Deuem
 
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: PLAYSWITHMACHINES on July 07, 2012, 08:13:30 am
I will be more than happy to help on this :)

My new Tesla coils need testing, what better way than with a lifter?

(i already have lots of drinking straws, ally foil, glue etc for just such an occasion, & i want to build some new types of lifters.)

The challenge is to get as much charged surface into the smallest space, without arcing and i think a spiral will do that nicely, until we can start examining nano-structures.... :o

As for the smoke, i have my old pipe from my college days ::) or it will have to be the green drain chaser pills i've got.....

Maybe some incense sticks would give a nice effect....

First up will be the 'spiral sandalwood' demo LOL

Who says science can't be fun??????
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: deuem on July 07, 2012, 08:28:25 am
PWM, many hardware stores will carry smoke sticks. they use them to find air leaks. Should be an easy thing to find.
 
Ah Spirals, what a world.....I like to have fun also. If it is boring it sounds like work. That's no fun....
 
Did you see the one where the guy did what looked like 2 paper cups mounted on an axel and spun in up. All horizontal.  That was cool. No video though. Now I am thinking pinwheel..
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Mikado on July 07, 2012, 08:30:52 am
Quote from: http://encyclopediadramatica.se/Beamshipcaptain

“    
The ELECTROHYDRODYNAMICS report, by TT Brown.s Bala Cynwyd,PA-based company ELECTRON-ATOM, Inc, report makes the disclosure that under hard vacuum, a force of 110-gms. (1.1 Newtons) could be achieved for a power expenditure of just 0.5 Watt (250,000 Volts times 2 x 10^-6 Amps) or 2,200 newtons of thrust per kiloWatt. This is about 150 times the thrust-to-power ratio of a jet engine! And that is also 10,000 times the thrust to power ratio of a space-shuttle main engine
     „
 
—Beamshipcaptain:umm, if it has more thrust than the Space Shuttle, then why can't your "lifters" lift a single battery?)


The above is a comment that someone made in regard to Beamship Captain. His name is Russell Anderson and he was quite prolific in the lifter genre. Rumor has it that he has flown them at the Valley Forge Signal Seekers which is located in Valley Forge Park right next to the turnpike on hwy 252.

He has many videos on Youtube. He also is prone to making a good deal of claims that have not been backed up.

What am I trying to say? document...document...document...everything you do so as if the need arises, it can be documented by a third party.

Just my opinion and two cents worth,

Mikado


PS: I never heard of "ELECTRON-ATOM INC" owned by Dr. Brown and unless information to verify this comes forth, one only questions his other claims. I did go online with the Dept. of Revenue Corporate Bureau and could not find it.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: PLAYSWITHMACHINES on July 07, 2012, 08:42:46 am
Deuem;
It sure is fun, & it's great to have someone to share it with 8)

Smoke won't be a problem, i will get me some of those sticks!
Dry ice would be cool :D but i think it will condense water on the lifter, rendering it useless :o
Anyone ever seen a lifter in the rain?
Thought not.....

As a side issue, i have regarded thie EG effect & ion wind to be separate, and a lifter works because it uses both effects ::)

I have also postulated that the BB effect occurs at or near the breakdown voltage and this will be tested in due course...
OK i'm off to get something actually done, so i can start filming.

And if i don't report back within a few days, consider me well & truly tasered by my own equipment :-[ :P

Mikado;
Beamship makes a lot of claims, more on that later when i post the Searl thread ;)
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: deuem on July 07, 2012, 08:44:40 am
Mikado, you seem to be good with numbers, can you take that 17.6 miles an hour of straight up lift speed and compare it to other things you can think of ? I do know it was just done over 6 inches and it seems slow when I see 17.6 but what do other things take to achieve this or more? Then this would need to take in consideration the size and power used. Like, I am bigger than an ant but in comparison an ant is 50 times stronger than me. That kind of Math.
 
And if anyone, including your self can get me a video of a lifter doing 2 meters ( 6 feet ) I will run it ASAP to figure out the curves. Need a red ball for motion tracking if possible.
 
Deuem
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: PLAYSWITHMACHINES on July 07, 2012, 08:46:43 am
Have fun you guys, i'm off to work.
 :D
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: deuem on July 07, 2012, 08:53:02 am
PWM
 
Quote
As a side issue, i have regarded thie EG effect & ion wind to be separate, and a lifter works because it uses both effects (http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)

I am thinking we can figure this out once and for all. I have a few more easy tests up my sleeves.
 
I will share an important note that Mikado just said. Document all your settings. It is so easy to get carried away with fun that one forgets them. Even a tape recorder is good if things are changing fast while you are testing. I have a mic for my computer, that works well.
 
Now I am upset I have to wait 8 weeks for our Guru to return.
 
Deuem
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Linda Brown on July 07, 2012, 10:37:46 am

The above is a comment that someone made in regard
PS: I never heard of "ELECTRON-ATOM INC" owned by Dr. Brown and unless information to verify this comes forth, one only questions his other claims. I did go online with the Dept. of Revenue Corporate Bureau and could not find it.

To my knowledge Mikado there was no such corporation as Electron-Atom Inc. The Company that was working at BalaCynwyd was called " Electrokinetics" which was initially my Dads and then taken over by Martin Decker.

When Decker took over he traded the rights to certain units that Dad was developing for stock in that company and then turned around ... after the takeover and told Dad " You can paper your Privy with that stock"! This was in 1964... Mom and Dad moved to Florida... I went to school in Virginia... while I was there

Dad sued Decker for fraud....and the next thing I knew in the summer of 1966 we were working autonomously after taking over the entire top of the Decker Lab hillside. right outside of Philadelphia..... we were there until Dad decided to head for California that next winter.... after we left the local concrete companies went on strike I understand .... (or if not a general strike they stopped delivering to Martin Decker... his building slowed.... his financing dried up and he eventually went bankrupt.)

Now in the area that used to be called Decker Square.... with large buildings dominating the hillside.... the only sign that he was ever there is a tiny road side in an alley that says " Decker lande"

. His bankruptcy later was the next largest to the Penn Rail Road when they filed. I understand....

Never heard of Electron-Atom from my end of things and I suspect thats an invention from someone.

Interesting.

I do know that Martin Decker and my Dad traveled to Nassau together in the early spring of 1966 so I don't know what kind of deal was struck between those forces....

We moved from Florida to the Drake Hotel there in Philadelphia in April of that year and spent all summer working on a large prototype of a " loudspeaker" ( which was so large that it took up the entire end of the room.....But as you know I have since come to suspect that there was much more going on there secretly that wasn't information shared with me.

I don't know how the fraud suit was resolved but I do know that Dad had complete control of most of the buildings there on the hill during that summer. Whatever that means.   Linda
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: zorgon on July 07, 2012, 10:55:03 am
Probably no connection  but

Harold N. Holt, Plaintiff-appellant, v. Seversky Electronatom Corporation, Defendant-appellee
http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F2/452/31/174627/

Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Linda Brown on July 07, 2012, 10:58:43 am
Thats interesting. But I suspect what we are looking at was simply an error in research somehow. Linda
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: rose on July 07, 2012, 11:05:48 am
From Conspiracy Journal at
http://uforeview.tripod.com/conspiracyjournal537.html

Quote
In August of 1964, forty five years ago, a long forgotten article appeared in Popular Mechanics entitled "Major DeSeversky's Ion-Propelled Aircraft by Hans Fantel. It is well worth reading. The simple reason for this is that in the program that Nick Cook had assembled, I was struck to by the similarity of this high voltage craft to that of the Nazi Bell experiments using a similarly tethered vehicle, at least that was the uncorroborated testimony of now long dead witnesses. By the way' this legendary craft makes a nice paper weight for those with admittedly exotic tastes.

"It was downright spooky. Without a sound, the peculiar, spiky contraption rose straight up, hovered awhile, climbed higher. Then it did a few graceful turns, stopped again, and just sat there silently in midair. It seemed like levitation --- some trick to overcome gravity. I could not shake off the feeling that I was attending a kind of spiritual seance, or maybe a Buck Rogers show, instead of an engineering demonstration. The eerie scene took place in the big barn like laboratory of Electron-Atom Inc., research firm in Long Island City, New York, devoted to the development of a new kind of flying machine.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Linda Brown on July 07, 2012, 11:41:26 am
Well the date is interesting, thats for sure and of course the description too.... As far as which happened first when it came to lifters?

 I witnessed that same type of demonstration during the summer of 1955 in Dads offices on Dupont Circle Building... in front of a bunch of military Dudes.  In fact that experience is noted in the Good-Bye man.

Funny, cosmic hahas.... Linda
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: rose on July 07, 2012, 12:14:47 pm
I thought you would be interested in that Linda...the year, the fan similariy and the Russian all piqued my interest.

Deuem, you mentioned your surprise at finding no light around the tether. While  Vassilotos' TTB bio is rife with errors (AFWK, for example, Townsend never attended Kenyon college), you might find this of some interest

Quote
Dr. Brown cited instances when extremely intense lightning channels appeared "black" to witnesses. The phenomenon had also been photographed by professional researchers. Each had erroneously assumed the effect to be a bleaching action; one, which was both ocular and photochemical. No one recognized the real significance of what had been recorded on these photographic plates.

Only one researcher successfully glimpsed and accurately identified the possible cause of these blackout effects.

George Piggot mentioned the mysterious "black band" which appeared around his highly charged suspended metal marbles. Light seemed to disappear into these zones. But it was Nikola Tesla, whose forgotten and ignored testimony on the perceptual effects of high voltage electrical systems took first place. Tesla produced such intense electrical arcs that the same strange blackout effects were repeatedly observed. In the case of Tesla's famed Colorado Springs Experiments, the blackout effect produced a lingering state, which Tesla accurately described as a perceptual-spatial distortion.

http://customers.hbci.com/~wenonah/history/brown.htm


rose
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Linda Brown on July 07, 2012, 12:26:57 pm
Thanks Rose

" which Tesla accurately described as a perceptual-spatial distortion.


Ding..... Ding..... dededingdingding.

Linda
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: zorgon on July 07, 2012, 12:49:00 pm
As far as lifters go...

I am thinking more along these lines..

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_6TXVtpv2tmo/SpoeAe0Rq4I/AAAAAAAAD_I/mHtQ8RXzFw8/s400/cover.gif)
The Ion Lift Air Vehicle: The Ring of The 1948 Luftwaffe Bell
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on July 07, 2012, 02:28:55 pm
Thanks Rose

" which Tesla accurately described as a perceptual-spatial distortion.


Ding..... Ding..... dededingdingding.

Linda
And a ringy ding ding to you too!
Now were getting somewhere!
Le
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: PLAYSWITHMACHINES on July 07, 2012, 03:21:13 pm
Good one, Zorgon, i don't think that's Orville the hamster in that lifter ::), put a blue neon light behind it & you sure would kill a lot of flies ;D ;D

Take note of the anomalies ladies & gents, we need to keep close tabs on this kind of thing.
IMO an optical distortion as has been described would indicate extreme distortion of 'masstime', and has been in many UFO reports also.

A typical effect of an EG system?
I won't believe it until i see more results, but i would think optical effects could well be observed (theoretically).
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: deuem on July 08, 2012, 12:03:07 am
I thought you would be interested in that Linda...the year, the fan similariy and the Russian all piqued my interest.

Deuem, you mentioned your surprise at finding no light around the tether. While  Vassilotos' TTB bio is rife with errors (AFWK, for example, Townsend never attended Kenyon college), you might find this of some interest

http://customers.hbci.com/~wenonah/history/brown.htm (http://customers.hbci.com/~wenonah/history/brown.htm)


rose

Rose, you never cease to amaze me. You pull the right stuff out of your hat all the time.
 
I have downloaded Chapter 7 that you linked, 52 pages of reading to do.
 
I do find it interesting that you put 2 and 2 together here. The only time I found any thing to speak of is when they lowered the wires close enough so the electricity jumped and arced. That anyone can see from across the room.
 
I am hoping that PWM can do that static test I talked about and we can pin point everything we have been asking about. A Ramp up of power on a fixed assembly with 2 or 3 seconds at every step will show us a lot. Keep going till there is an arc out. Yea, till it blows up! Each step with and without the smoke! Just move the smoke to the side for a second. Every second gives us 30 frames. 29 more than we might need so I am sure we can find it. Or as you pointed out, not find it.
 
One of the things I like best about these types of web sites is the ability for a member to stop in and nail it. You seem to have a good hammer. Please by all means keep up the good work. Although my fingers have just written this, alls my mouth can say is WOW! You go girl.....
 
Deuem
 
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: deuem on July 08, 2012, 12:10:02 am
Good one, Zorgon, i don't think that's Orville the hamster in that lifter ::) , put a blue neon light behind it & you sure would kill a lot of flies ;D ;D

Take note of the anomalies ladies & gents, we need to keep close tabs on this kind of thing.
IMO an optical distortion as has been described would indicate extreme distortion of 'masstime', and has been in many UFO reports also.

A typical effect of an EG system?
I won't believe it until i see more results, but i would think optical effects could well be observed (theoretically).

This gets more interesting PWM, I would like to run some of the photos the pro did for Dr. Brown. Film and digital are so different I wonder what we would see. I would need a direct scan off the negative like the NASA photos are done. ( without all the added touches )
 
Looking forward to the next step.
 
Deuem
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Linda Brown on July 08, 2012, 09:25:57 am
And thank you also Rose on the links back to Vassilatos. I think that I need to spend some time with someone who would choose to call my Dad "Tom"

There was only one person in Dads association that ever called him that.... and that was " Beau".... so I think that there is much more hiding beneath Mr. Vassilatos' account than is obvious....

If any biography of my Dads deserves a " Due Diligence" report it should be Vassilatos' chapter on my Dad.

But I see it NOW more as what it was meant to be..... the first piece of bread dropped on the trail for others to find and question.... Was it intentional disinformation in many areas. I think probably YES, some of his statements sure got my attention!!!! Perhaps entirely intentional mis statements about my Dads life.... knowing that would spur others to correct him.... and that way bring more and more to the surface.

So what if it takes years and years and years. Someone once said that this was a multigenerational project... and too big for most of us to see at any one time.

And Gerry Vassilatos..... this is a standing invitation. When I start writing about what you have written can you come forward and explain things better to us?

Linda
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Amaterasu on July 08, 2012, 09:28:57 am
Just  curious, Linda...  Is Beau still alive?  Or has He passed too...?
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: rose on July 08, 2012, 09:53:56 am
Amy, do you remember what year or years it was that your father was employed on Long Island?

Thank you, Deuem, but I can't take any credit for my finds. I'm not the doer, nor the thinker, only the 'hollow bone' through which the wind blows.

rose
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Amaterasu on July 08, 2012, 09:58:43 am
1959 - January or maybe February.  We left San Diego shortly after My sister was born.  To 1961.  Mid or late that year.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Mikado on July 08, 2012, 10:03:37 am

. His bankruptcy later was the next largest to the Penn Rail Road when they filed. I understand....



Penn Rail Road?

Every "train" enthusiast is rolling their eyes on that.

It was the "Pennsylvania Railroad (one word not two)" or just known as the "Pennsy" which was hailed as "The Standard of the World". At least that is what they (PRR) used to claim.

Mikado

PS: How's that not answering me working out? and btw, royalties are received if only ONE book is sold.

Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Mikado on July 08, 2012, 10:09:29 am
And thank you also Rose on the links back to Vassilatos. I think that I need to spend some time with someone who would choose to call my Dad "Tom"

There was only one person in Dads association that ever called him that.... and that was " Beau".... so I think that there is much more hiding beneath Mr. Vassilatos' account than is obvious....
Linda

I know of someone who called your Father "Thomas".

Mikado
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Linda Brown on July 08, 2012, 10:15:14 am
Just  curious, Linda...  Is Beau still alive?  Or has He passed too...?

He has passed too. I get the giggles when I think of Beau and my Dad reunited. They were hysterical together... Beau being sort of rotund.... and my Dad tall and with a swimmers build.... Laurel and Hardy.... and even Dad recognized that with their favorite saying " Well.... theres ANOTHER fine mess you've got us in!"  And they would laugh and laugh and now that I know their history a little bit better I am just sure there were all kinds of things that those two got involved in.... that not many people heard about!

I note that you had something to say Mikado. If you knew someone who called Dad Thomas then tell us who it was and see if I agree with you. Or is this something that you have to stash away for the moment that all of this hidden knowledge will spew forth from you?   Linda

Beau was the only person that I felt my Dad ever " let his guard down" around. That's because he trusted him one hundred.... two hundred percent. Rare in the world that Dad had to operated in.

Beau Kitselman had five lovely daughters as I recall....and I hope that some of them might drop in here with them....I know that they honored and loved their Dad as much as I did mine... Girls????? Join us???? I will set up a special place just for Beau and I think that the others here will be fascinated.

I do know that Beau " escorted LRon Hubbard" to his door... ousted him.... in the very early years when Hubbard was figuring out how to build his empire. That must count for special points in some books!!!!

And he was transcribing ancient Sanskrit texts just before he died.... where might that discussion go????

And his best put down saying?

" The meeting of their minds would form the critical mass of a vacuum!"   hahahaha

 Linda
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: zorgon on August 27, 2012, 12:54:27 am
The Gold Ring

Back in service :P Almost forgot about this on...
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: PLAYSWITHMACHINES on August 27, 2012, 03:29:02 am
I'm not going for Fusion at this rate, New Energy Times have got it well covered..
I've posted before that lifters work so well because they make use of 2 effects, the B-B effect (electrogravity) and ion wind. Neither force alone is enough to 'lift' a lifter, but together they can.

Air is the dielectric in this case, and has a dielectric constant (K) of 1

Consider using dielectrics with a K of 10,000 or more, and way higher voltages. ::)
Puthoff said that the effect might be non-linear, we know it IS nonlinear, anyone see the graphs i posted in the TTB section?

A lifter will not work in a vacuum since it uses air as the dielectric.
A solid dielectric however, will work in a vacuum (indeed the higher the vacuum the higher the voltage you can use, the more efficient it becomes etc...)
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: zorgon on August 27, 2012, 03:39:16 am
New Flying Saucer Runs on Plasma
Greg Soltis
Date: 12 June 2008 Time: 09:30 AM ET


(http://i.livescience.com/images/i/2327/original/080612-saucer-weav-02.jpg?1296072419)
The wingless electromagnetic air vehicle (WEAV), with electrodes lining its surface.
CREDIT: Subrata Roy, University of Florida


Quote
A flying saucer is in the works, but it didn’t come from space. It came from Florida.

Subrata Roy, an engineering professor at the University of Florida, is trying to patent his design of a circular, spinning aircraft he dubs WEAV, short for wingless electromagnetic air vehicle.

The suggested prototype offers several advantages. It can hover and take off vertically. With no moving parts, the WEAV should be markedly reliable. And though his battery-powered model is only six inches across, Roy thinks a larger craft is possible.

Roy applied his experience doing U.S. Air Force-funded plasma research to develop the propulsion system devoid of typical aircraft parts such as propellers and engines. Here is how it works: Electrodes lining the vehicle’s surface ionize the surrounding air. This creates plasma on the vehicle’s exterior. An electrical current sent through this plasma generates a force that not only produces the necessary lift and momentum. It also stabilizes the vehicle in windy conditions.

Looking like a flying bundt pan, the WEAV design is partially hollow and continuously curved. This larger surface area improves lift and control.

Besides providing surveillance on Earth, Roy also envisions the craft in other atmospheres, such as that of Saturn’s moon Titan, where high air density and low gravity would be favorable to saucer flight.

But the path from concept to production may not be smooth. Flying in Earth’s air requires a thrust at least 10 times greater than in outer space where drag and gravity are lower. And the plasma necessary to fly also obstructs wave transmission used for communicating with a remote source.

This doesn’t discourage Roy. “Of course the risk is huge, but so is the payoff,” he said. “If successful, we will have an aircraft, a saucer and a helicopter all in one embodiment.”

New Flying Saucer Runs on Plasma (http://www.livescience.com/2600-flying-saucer-runs-plasma.html) - Live Science

Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: PLAYSWITHMACHINES on August 27, 2012, 04:00:55 am
Seen ths before, is it on the market yet?

I heard it had a fan in it, but it could be a glorified Lifter, possibly using the 'coanda effect'

Either that, or it's coated in BaTiO & some Hafnium.....

The only way to release this tech is in the form of a 'toy'
Both Tesla & Carr patented 'amusement devices' ::)

We need more info on this one, like some tech specs...?
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: robomont on August 27, 2012, 05:06:49 am
in the book philadelphia experiment,it stated townsends machine worked better in a vacuum,then here in the past few years the statement changed to does not work in vacuum.who started this latest statement?
i personally believe it would work better in a vacuum.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on August 27, 2012, 05:27:27 am
Yippee! Were back on track!

To building Zorgon's spaceship that is! :o

The lifter style craft proposed by that fellow from U of F is pretty cool, and what caught my eye was his statement..I got the idea from the Air Force work I did...Hmmm.

Also, Linda said quite often that someone told her to look at ball lightning, and thats very indicative of plasma and its penchant for flying through the air with ease. And yes, Robo, lifters do work in a vacuum, its just an Air Force disinfo campaign lately that's trying to cover that up. 8)

And much to the surprise of a few here, plasma can operate and exist in a near vacuum, too. NEON tubes are vacuumed down low, and then refilled while keeping some vacuum in their tubes.

Personally, I think to make this move ahead will require plasma and the generation of it, but for now, we will have to concentrate on weight versus thrust to make any headway, and as a toy? I dont know how safe it will be when kids play with super HV...maybe the bad kids though, it might straighten them out a bit!LOL!

I do think, in the next few years, TV shops will fill with different parts which could be used to experiment with plasma generation, as the big screens die off...so the investment level may become much lower to work with plasma.

Of course, imbedding electrodes in glass is something I can do..... 8)

Dueum has been thinking about lifters lately, and I proposed to him that he could use a finely tuned Tesla coil to actually power a lifter, or at least make one which didnt need a tether..so maybe thats the way to go for now. If we could make a lifter capture the output of a tesla coil, and channel it into a central lifting system, it might be the way around the snags of tethers and power supplies.

Jacob's Ladder..the arc chases the wider opening and rises upward away from the source...can this be the spark(pun intended) that can show us how plasma will rise away from the surface of the Earth?

Then gradually the tech would advance to start using the aether for power like the tesla coil itself does...and our craft would basically be a flying Tesla coil! 8)

Glad you got the Gold Ring back on track Zorgon...must now get brain energy back up in that area!:D

Coffee time!

Le

Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: robomont on August 27, 2012, 06:58:37 am
so far in my research,the only two disinfos ive seen are this deal about vacuum and the theory of supercooled mercury plasma.
i saw a video yesterday trying to explain that supercool theory,what bs.
now it may be possible to take that material paul chu invented at the university of houston and supercool it.it was released to the public at the same moment in time that they shutdown the supercollider.is there a tie between the two?
as far as dueum.he should try building a mercury engine in minature based on the caduceus coil.would not be for kids tho.
im thinking of building one using an old ac compressor housing for the base steel container.now i just have to come up with a steel ball container for the top.the rest of the tubing will be easy to get and weld.the mercury will be a little harder to get but it wont take much.
le ,i think you and i are on the same path.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: zorgon on August 27, 2012, 08:46:52 am
I heard it had a fan in it, but it could be a glorified Lifter, possibly using the 'coanda effect'

Well the Coanda effect is not lifter tech :P and I will do a thread on that today... but yeah 'plasma' can act as a fluid thus make a Coanda craft work in space :D

Quote
We need more info on this one, like some tech specs...?

I'll work on it :D
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: robomont on August 27, 2012, 09:13:01 am
i still think it needs a solenoid in the middle and a pan of any non magnetic material on bottom.the solinoid drives the ions down faster and the pan keeps the ions from sucking back up in the solenoid and causes them to be directed downward.

hope this helps.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: zorgon on August 27, 2012, 09:46:18 am
The lifter style craft proposed by that fellow from U of F is pretty cool, and what caught my eye was his statement..I got the idea from the Air Force work I did...Hmmm.

If it's a form of Coanda effect, then Air Force involvement is no surprise, as they did and are doing a lot with that technology. Unlike Lifter/EG tech.. I can find lots of papers on that at the .mil sites :D

Quote
Also, Linda said quite often that someone told her to look at ball lightning, and thats very indicative of plasma and its penchant for flying through the air with ease.
And yes, Robo, lifters do work in a vacuum, its just an Air Force disinfo campaign lately that's trying to cover that up. 8)

Ah yes Plasma CRITTERS, Foo fighters  etc.... I will get into those and show you one giving birth... that will be an eye opener :D

As to the Airforce... OR they long ago gave it up as a dead end and went into plasma research ;) of which again I can find tons of papers and experiments already in public domain... while the only ED stuff is old history papers

Quote
And much to the surprise of a few here, plasma can operate and exist in a near vacuum, too. NEON tubes are vacuumed down low, and then refilled while keeping some vacuum in their tubes.

Well DUH!!!! 

Plasma arcs in a vacuum :P

[youtube]ys9xL3mw8tI[/youtube]

Plasma in a vacuum

(http://imgsrc.hubblesite.org/hu/db/images/hs-2004-27-a-web.jpg)

Plasma Arcs destroying a solar panel in space...

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/41pegasus/04images/Tether/Arc_002.png)

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/41pegasus/04images/Tether/Arc_003.png)

Quote
Personally, I think to make this move ahead will require plasma and the generation of it, but for now, we will have to concentrate on weight versus thrust to make any headway, and as a toy? I dont know how safe it will be when kids play with super HV...maybe the bad kids though, it might straighten them out a bit!LOL!

Just borrow on of these from MIT  Levitating Dipole Fusion Confinement unit... no radioactive waste, cardboard is enough for shielding... as its levitating, it cuts down weight and produces a lot of juice from HE3 fusion... This is the GOLD RING I hung up... the purpose of this thread :D

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/41pegasus/04images/UFO_Tech/ldx_mov.gif)

Quote
I do think, in the next few years, TV shops will fill with different parts which could be used to experiment with plasma generation, as the big screens die off...so the investment level may become much lower to work with plasma.

Dr Frankenstein also used Plasma to create HIS monster

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_cMdbfkl3Rz4/SXVsggWIpoI/AAAAAAAAEZ8/pX5LOdB0NTI/s800/clivelab.jpg)

Quote
Jacob's Ladder..the arc chases the wider opening and rises upward away from the source...can this be the spark(pun intended) that can show us how plasma will rise away from the surface of the Earth?

Jacbo's ladder rises due to super heated air rising :D An old 10KV secondary on an oil furnace ignition coil makes a great one :D

Quote
The heated ionized air rises, carrying the current path with it. As the trail of ionization gets longer, it becomes more and more unstable, finally breaking. The voltage across the electrodes then rises and the spark re-forms at the bottom of the device.

So severely limited for lift :D

Quote
Then gradually the tech would advance to start using the aether for power like the tesla coil itself does...and our craft would basically be a flying Tesla coil! 8)

Why not just find the plans for Tesla's saucer?

(http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/tesla/occultether/images/occult9.gif)

Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: zorgon on August 27, 2012, 09:47:18 am
Okay a recap of my concerns....

First of all... I wish all you techies best of luck finding some value in the Lifter tech... but when I reviewed this thread before reinstating it... I had time to read it slowly...

So from my inititial post...



In an email to a researcher written by my nemesis Dr Hal Puthoff, he wrote;

"At this point I do not think T.T. Brown's results were a demonstration of anomalous gravity effects," he wrote. "Talking to him just before he died, he did not encourage me to follow up on this, as the effect was so weak...."

  Puthoff, who is probably best known for his pioneering, CIA-sponsored research into the technique of "remote viewing," went on to describe two attempts to replicate Townsend Brown's research, one of which he had conducted. Both were unsuccessful, he said.

  "The only remaining possibility is that in our various replication attempts none of us have gone as high in voltage as Brown did, so there is a small possibility of non-linear effects at higher voltages," Puthoff wrote. "It's a judgment call."

So we want answers...

...we want that Gold Ring



Then Linda says...

Quote
In my book
" The Good-Bye Man" there is a scene where I accompanied my Dad to his lab in Washington DC. The year was...... 1955.  He held a demonstration of something made of balsa wood and metal... it floated in front of an important military personage after that man had said that there was " NO WAY" that it would work. I think Dads question was...." Are you willing to bet your career on that?"

But much later Dad spent absolutely no time in that direction. One needs to ask..... why. And there are many answers to this so don't let yourself get stuffed into the box that does not exist except in your mind.



And Deuem. Maybe you will "see" something more important..... the lifter, the propulsion systems.... they were all " ashtray products". Go for what really counts.

Linda

Interesting comment "ashtray products"



Quote
Since I cannot put this in the appropriate place, I would like to respond here to this comment in the Cleansing Thread.

Quote Zorgon
   ... is that many of us here consider EG to be a dead end.

Possibly even one of the many false trails I mentioned. People get so wrapped up in chasing this one that they  overlook the fact that Townsend was first and foremost a 'signals' guy.  And with that, I am more than willing to close the book on the topic of Townsend Brown, as far as this forum goes. I never would have brought it here, but  y'all were the ones who thought it worth pursuing to begin with.

rose

Interesting wording there 'rose'   ::)



Experiments done by someone within my group indicate that a plateau will occur. The experiments were going to escalate into joystick control but based upon the results that were obtained it was deemed unfeasible to continue due to the limitations exhibited by the lifters.

This does not mean that I am not condoning further studies I am just saying that as it stands at the moment, lifters may, if not are, a dead end. That doesn't mean that something useful cannot be obtained from their use.

Nice job deuem.

Mikado



Maybe they are a dead end as far as a technology, but I appreciate the learning experience that Deuem has provided. I've never been able to get it so concretely from watching the videos.

rose



Actually rose, I think a good deal of usefulness could be derived from the technology. Remember, it is EHD and that can be used as a pump.

Now, keeping that in mind (pump that is), an internal combustion engine is nothing more than an air pump.

I just believe it is dead end when looking at a form of space propulsion and other applications possibly.

Mikado



So after reading that thread again carefully... despite all the drama created and the coded talk that no one ut the players could understand...  in the end it seems all the key players all say the same thing..

it's a dead end for propulsion....
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on August 27, 2012, 11:53:07 am
"Its a dead end for propulsion"

And that usually means one thing when the key players say it. 8)

Le
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: robomont on August 27, 2012, 12:06:23 pm
what,what,what,
are you screwin with us?
i think we finally got it figured out.if it was a fail then there would be piles of info.electricity and controlled frequencies is the most efficent way to travel.
that above is horse manure imho.
tellem le.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on August 27, 2012, 12:38:54 pm
New blood...hehehe!
Le
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: 1Worldwatcher on August 27, 2012, 12:39:33 pm
PWM, LE, Z and the rest of you, "Has anyone ever tried taking a converter for 12V application and attached an alternator too it, creating 110V out put and applied this to a lifter?"
Was just curious, had a friend of mine that is a truck driver, hooked up an alternate alternator under the hood, this kept his power usage up too demands when running his Microwave, TV, Lap top, cell phone and other electronic devices without affecting the trucks battery loads from drainage, these were all ran from the same batteries as would start the rig. So, with that in mind "Possible to produce a lift effect with battery application with converter/alternator application?"
If this is applicable and proved on the Semi truck , this should be the results of the lifter idea, provided it is 110V too create the ionization and lift, "Right?"

1Worldwatcher
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on August 27, 2012, 01:10:38 pm
12000 v thatll do pig:)
Le
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: zorgon on August 27, 2012, 02:42:58 pm
That red wire is from a flyback transformer on an old tv I found around town, and it puts out about 12000 vdc when powered up.

Probably a good time to mention not holding that wire when its on :P

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/Vault/Zap_01.png)
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: robomont on August 27, 2012, 06:31:42 pm
the diesel engine must be running for the alternator to put out the power or a bank of big 24 volt lead batteries.
two heavy.
among other issues of using such a setup.like no oxygen in space to run a diesel motor.
now down on the farm playing around,the 110v could then be plugged into a hv converter.
for those who dont know,always keep your right hand in your pocket when working on this stuff.even tesla had this habit.it can save your life.
also,if you get popped,it will make you real mean for about ten minutes,so avoid your friends and loved ones.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: deuem on August 28, 2012, 12:35:03 am
12000 v thatll do pig:)
Le

LE, real nice and very high power but what powers that, 110 or 220 and how do I develop 110 or 220 on board. At the max I might have 9 to 36vdc. Maybe on a very large craft that is scaled up to fit us, this much voltage would be needed, maybe even more.
 
As far as it being dead, I can't really see it as dead, we see them fly all the time. Are we watching dead lifters working? So the wordage is wrong. In reality nobody has designed/built a free floating version. Maybe that idea is out of reach but we will look into it.
Components of today are much smaller than TT Browns day. We can not compare the two times and conclude a decision. Everyday things get smaller. Material gets lighter and so on. I would say it is not dead, it is just out of reach for the moment.
 
Deuem
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: zorgon on August 28, 2012, 01:35:14 am
As far as it being dead, I can't really see it as dead, we see them fly all the time. Are we watching dead lifters working?

No not dead,... 'dead end'  meaning it has limitations

Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: deuem on August 28, 2012, 03:48:18 am
No not dead,... 'dead end'  meaning it has limitations

Ok, dead end!, Someone needs to extend the road. Get the plows out!
 
Some test parts came in today. I will put them in the road extension box.
 
Remember if this works, PRC can have an exclusive for your area...We can color code it to PRC ideas and name it the Pegasus. Decals and lights to your specs. Vegas will get a new night light show. ( OK, I can dream a little )
 
Deuem
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on August 28, 2012, 05:56:44 am
Hows about a big club named club Pagasus, with a dome shaped roof that levitates above the partiers like a lifter?

And the purple coronal discharge could be seen for miles at night!

Goodness I hate typing coronal discharge...it makes me think of, well...ech!

Dueum and others, the flyback is just the beginning of the power source for our lifter, and as Ive found in several attempts this year, the one in that tv I got for free(nothing good is free remember?) is fryed from water intrusion. Seems whoever owned it left it under a roof leak and it got wet quite frequently. Oh well theres more around, just got to find them.:(

Now, to make a flyback work we need to build a simple circuit to power the flyback itself, and that is called a 555 timer driver circuit.
Heres the entire schematic courtesy of JL Naudin...

(http://lifters.online.fr/lifters/labhvps/images/labhvps12a.gif)

The parts for it (the hvps half, not the dcps which I have)are about 70 bucks from www.mouser.com  Ive already ordered enough to build three of these and one is done. I always order at least three of everything, to account for shorts or fried xistors. :o

Also, I suggest a heat sink for the xistor, as it will get quite warm and this will prolong its life a bit.

This circuit is very unflexible as Ive found and the values for the various parts are critical. Also, the varistor for frequency adjustment is a bit quirky, and my newest design for this will incorporate a frequency generator somehow.

The top schematic is for a dc power supply, which you may not need, and the bottom is for the 555 timer.

Once you have a verified working flyback its all downhill from there, but they are few and far between, unless you order a new one online, in which case youll be spending 30-40 bucks and have a shiny new one to use.

Im a bit of a cheapo and havent done that yet, but might soon when money gets flowing from shows again.

Aside from all of this, the circuit isnt the problem as its pretty light, its the dc power supply which is heavy with batteries. Solar may work but youll need some big sheets of solar "skin"

There is a way to getaround the barricades on the dead end street here, its just that we will have to go offroad to make advancements in the whole idea, and by that I mean avoiding failed experiments in lifter tech and a whole new approach.

Zorgon gave us a clue with his plasma saucer post, should we look there? ???

I got it Zorgon...The Tesla Topless Tower...Downtown Vegas' newest attraction... ;D   Special admittance to the Pegasus Room for VIP's 8)

Coffee time;)
Le

Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: deuem on August 28, 2012, 08:12:49 am
Thanks for the lead LE, I went out and looked up the flyback transformers.
 
do you have one of these? If so how much does it weigh? It looks heavy.
 
Deuem
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on August 28, 2012, 08:22:52 am
Thanks for the lead LE, I went out and looked up the flyback transformers.
 
do you have one of these? If so how much does it weigh? It looks heavy.
 
Deuem

They weigh about 6-8 ounces. I have three..all fried..:(
Le
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: robomont on August 28, 2012, 09:00:11 am
deuem, did my idea of a vertically mounted solinoid have any influence on you?
is it possible for you to maybe give it a try at a later date?after first flight?
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: deuem on August 28, 2012, 11:42:49 pm
deuem, did my idea of a vertically mounted solinoid have any influence on you?
is it possible for you to maybe give it a try at a later date?after first flight?

I did bring it up at our last meeting like I do all suggestions. A typical selinoid is just like a transformer but with a movable core, No?
 
The magnetic field of the unit is so very low on the out side I am not sure how you are thinking of using it. I guess I need to pick your brain on this one. What are you thinking it will do? They will add weight. See how heavy LE flybacks are. The weight to lift ratio needs to be calculated better. It does seem though that the larger they get this ratio changes for the good. Unless I was dreaming that, the larger they get the less the PS should weigh in ratio to lift surface.  Now that is a big maybe right now. But it does look that way so far. i hope i can prove it.
 
Deuem
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: robomont on August 29, 2012, 04:50:01 am
just a couple of loops maybe ten,of fine wire in a circle.mounted horizontally.this magnetic field will grab the ions,and accelerate them douwnward or upward,depending which of the two wires is positive.the downward force may double.thus doubling lift.

a transformer is very similar except a transformer has an iron core and is used to step up ac voltage or step down ac voltage or stabilize ac voltage.a solenoid is the winding around an iron nail from science class.used as a homemade magnet.
instead of iron,the ions from the corona are grabbed by the magnetic field just like the animation that zorgon provided at the beginning of this thread.ions are negatively charged,thus making them magnetic.

i got this idea from the caduceus coil which i believe is a ufo engine.
i would almost quarantee this would improve the performance of the lifter.
good luck and looking forward to the video.do you have a launch date?
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: deuem on August 29, 2012, 06:36:32 am
No Launch date as of yet, we are still in the very beginning. I am waiting for the electronics guy to get the variable power supply to start testing.
 
So the loop you are talking bout is not a solenoid, just a wire loop. I guess it might help contain any wild forces into the field. Depending on the voltage it might act like a force field and contain the field better. Worth a try.
 
Have you tried this caduceus coil? What voltage, what amps sort of stuff? Can you cascade them, meaning a circle within a circle to boost the smaller ones?
 
I just remmbered seeing this coil here from UT being set up as an engine turning on two nails. Is that it?
 
Deuem
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on August 29, 2012, 06:53:09 am
Hey, Dueum, I think Robo is pointing out the caduceus as a design influence of sorts, and the solenoid he speaks of would be more of a cone shaped device.

To effect the acceleration of the ions, the cone is the perfect choice, and basically creates a tapering field due to its shape.

Le
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: robomont on August 29, 2012, 08:07:57 am
i just saw wiki design.wrong wrong.take two styrofoam plates .make saucer.put wire on top and alum foil on bottom.solenoid goes in bottom plate.ionic wind goes around lip of plate and pressure builds under base.high pressure under craft,low pressure above.the coil accelerates the ions to high speed ,increasing pressure ,increasing lift.

solenoid=take a cup,rap wire around cup twice ,pull out cup.
when energized ,this creates a toroid.the magnetic field lines go in the toroid,over the toroid,down the outer edge,under the toroid ,back into the toroid,repeat cycle.

this forces the ions down, accelerating towards speed of light=massive lift.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: robomont on August 29, 2012, 08:38:08 am
le ,you are on the ball.
the screw at the bottom of a caduceus is actually iron tubing in a spiral.
this creates a solenoid when ionized mercury plasma flows through it.
yes a funnel shape would be more focusing of magnetic field.
i dont know but it wouldnt surprise me if the solenoids voltage was high but i would start at 12vdc. on a tether also.
if it was built this way,i could see itself ripping free of tether and putting hole in ceiling.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: deuem on August 29, 2012, 08:36:42 pm
le ,you are on the ball.
the screw at the bottom of a caduceus is actually iron tubing in a spiral.
this creates a solenoid when ionized mercury plasma flows through it.
yes a funnel shape would be more focusing of magnetic field.
i dont know but it wouldnt surprise me if the solenoids voltage was high but i would start at 12vdc. on a tether also.
if it was built this way,i could see itself ripping free of tether and putting hole in ceiling.

Can you make a hand sketch and post it of the two plates and this wire idea?  Deuem
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: robomont on August 29, 2012, 09:24:52 pm
this will be a sloppy drawings but.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: deuem on August 29, 2012, 09:30:21 pm
this will be a sloppy drawings but.
Don't worry, if I can at least understand it I can draw it.
\
Deuem
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: robomont on August 29, 2012, 09:40:01 pm
here you go ,the green is the solinoid inside and glued to plate ,blue is two styrofoam plates,red is wire on top,and aluminum foil patch on bottom
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: deuem on August 30, 2012, 12:43:02 am
here you go ,the green is the solinoid inside and glued to plate ,blue is two styrofoam plates,red is wire on top,and aluminum foil patch on bottom

The sketch was more than good enough to get the idea over to me. This is so light I don't even know if I could weigh it with the scale I have. ( extra wires ) It would be so simple to add, I will give it a try when we get that far for sure. Our PS got delayed so I am on hold and I don't know how long. In the meantime, is that bare wire or insulated or enameled? 30 age or smaller? And does it have to be 12 volts? 12 Volts will need a transformer if I use 9v. What about something a little higher, say around 1200v.  deuem
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: robomont on August 30, 2012, 05:08:57 am
9 volts may work,wire must be insulated.just make sure high voltage doesnt ground out through low voltage circuit.1200v may work better.its all about nothing shorting out.thats why sometimes bigger is better.
im not good with magnetic field strengths.
i am good with power though.742 watts per horse power.you shouldnt even need 1 watt.if you had a perfect machine.
if it will lift it,just put 9v battery inside plates .maybe almost dead battery or solenoid wires may melt.
i think you get the jist.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on August 30, 2012, 06:32:28 am
Interesting idea, Robo.

A different type of lifter, and very light with the foam plates, too!

I think if this will work with a lower voltage like say 4-7000 v, how about a tiny neon transformer..theyre very light!

Also, the plates could be heated and reformed to be more dome shaped like your drawing, and to allow for a bit more room inside for the internals, and also to make a wider gap between the electrodes.

Of course the distance between them could be adjusted by said reshaping of the foam plates..or it could even be hewed from a solid block of foam, too.

What you have drawn is a two plate gravitor, with a coil set into one plate for tuning...Hmmm
A chaser sort of circuit, but thats what a gravitor is anyways, eh?

Mixing a gravitor with a lifter...now thats an idea!

Good theory there, Robo...

Cheers!
Le
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: robomont on August 30, 2012, 09:04:50 am
i had to use my daughters new slider phone for the art work.then send it to my phone then send it here.whew.
the top and bottom were rounded for better viewing of solenoid,big hands,little phone screen.but rounded would work better.they just dont make round bottom styrofoam plates.
i agree with le,if possible use styrofoam block,more insulating properties.
yea ive seen those tunable circuits in t browns patents.i think he was using ac though.that may be the trick.ionize the craft,then slowly turn up solenoid voltage or current for levitation.
you know,if this thing works,we gonna need to build a big one.
i say we start a pledge drive.zorgon needs to be able to fly someday.plus he will need a security team to keep the mib off of him.
some things for future discussion?
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: deuem on August 30, 2012, 09:28:28 am
What do you think would happen if we pulsed the wires like the A51 craft Bob Lazar talks about.
If i remember right he talked about 20 cycles per second.
A51 and i are working on this idea. The pulse. It has to be there for a reason. Maybe like you said, so not to melt anything.
Would a pulsed wire take more current than a On one would? I am still thinking DC. Making Ac in the air on remote control is another problem.
 
Guys, so you know, If I cant get off the teather I am not intersted. Thousands of people have had teather flights.
 
We need the next step.  Deuem
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: robomont on August 30, 2012, 11:34:04 am
if voltage is too high on any apparatus, for it to perform,it has to be pulsed dc.sometimes because of high current/amps the wires will melt.
ac is already pulsed but going positive then negative.i believe ac would lock it a certain space,neither going up or down.
no offence but i think yall are overthinking it a little.just add my suggestion,keep your current low enough to not melt on both apparatus and bet the hummer will fly.
i dont know the magnetic field strength tho.we need a guy that is familiar with moving plasma in a magnetic field.
are more field lines created with higher voltage?are the field lines thicker with amp increase?does more windings increase diameter of field?what does it take to increase acceleration of ions?
im 99% sure the solenoid will be the trick though.ive been a hv tech for a year,an air conditioning tech five years,a microwave tech parttime for twenty years as a towerhand.
ive been studying in my spare time these theories for twenty five years.ive got copies here at home on paper ,alot of townsends patents.
now im glad to see somebody trying it out.just so you know,i came up with this added idea after figureing out the sybolism of the caduceus coil pic.
that just happened in the last year or so.

then when seeing you building this lifter,i came up with the solenoid idea.
us just being in the right place at the right time.
this may be the breakthrough we have all been looking for.
now get the team across the finish line.
and dont kill yourself.
our hopes and dreams are in your hands.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: zorgon on August 30, 2012, 12:26:49 pm
Guys, so you know, If I cant get off the teather I am not intersted. Thousands of people have had tether flights.
We need the next step.  Deuem

I agree :D  And when your there I have a sketch of a star drive I will put on the table :D
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: robomont on August 30, 2012, 12:54:42 pm
once we get an idea of power requirements,the tether can come off.
the current can be measured at the 110vac source using a clamp on meter.v x a =watts.
then scale up.add internal powersupply.
move to third world country,procure uranium,take over world.
joking of course.
i believe kenetic energy and gravity will be the way for planet hopping.
but for star hopping ,w need a bigger craft.my guess ,size of aircraft carrier.
next project? battlestar pegasus? im in.

the energy source for tether free is propane.also some compressed oxygen ballast for high altitude.this would run a generator.
for outer space,a hydrogen bladder in the shape of an innertube would be added.for neutral buoancy.less stress on the lifter,less fuel cost to get to the battlestar.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: zorgon on August 30, 2012, 02:24:48 pm
move to third world country,procure uranium,take over world.

i have some nice radioactive Betafites that you could distill :D  Better to make a battery that absorbs that radiation directly (like the one Paul Brown invented that he got snuffed for) Have to ask yourself WHY the Russians are buying all our Nuke waste in Europe

 :o ::)

Quote
i believe kenetic energy and gravity will be the way for planet hopping.
but for star hopping ,w need a bigger craft.my guess ,size of aircraft carrier.
next project? battlestar pegasus? im in.

(http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb57887/galactica/images/2/27/BSPegasus.jpg)
Battlestar Pegasus

Quote
the energy source for tether free is propane.also some compressed oxygen ballast for high altitude.this would run a generator.

Have you calculated your weight to lift ratio yet?

Quote
for outer space,a hydrogen bladder in the shape of an innertube would be added.for neutral buoancy.less stress on the lifter,less fuel cost to get to the battlestar.

Ah an airship  great idea  wouldn't need the lifter them just ride the balloon up :D

(http://images.sciencedaily.com/2009/01/090107172546.jpg]http://images.sciencedaily.com/2009/01/090107172546.jpg)
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: robomont on August 30, 2012, 04:19:27 pm
a balloon full of air wont float in air.a ballast full of hydrogen wont make it to outer space.thats where the lifter kicks in.
now what if we ionized the hydrogen in the bladder it may make it to outerspace.what if the bladder was rigid? then hydrogen could be pulled from space and compressed into liquid form.creating added mass ,then used as a thruster jet or as added weight to pull one towards earth.that way lifter is only used for exceptions like emergencies.thus saving energy.i think space travel will have alot to do with conservation of energy.
deep space shows no mercy.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: deuem on August 30, 2012, 11:08:38 pm
Right now there is time for brainsorming ideas, We got pushed back again on the PS.
 
keep thinking....I did just get in some of the control circuits.
 
Deuem
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: robomont on August 31, 2012, 01:32:48 am
what kind of ps are yall getting?
what are its specs?
input?output? who makes it ? cost?
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on August 31, 2012, 06:56:53 am
Heres a great one you can build with an old tv or two...
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/lwhvps.htm

Cheers!
Le
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: deuem on August 31, 2012, 08:17:03 am
what kind of ps are yall getting?
what are its specs?
input?output? who makes it ? cost?

I am sorry but I don't really know, the electronics guru is taking care of that.
Maybe 0 to 50,000 volts and the amps 0 to 1
It should look like a rack mount PS for labs and be able to tweak it.
That is all I know for now. They are still working on specs, hence the delay(s)
Deuem
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on August 31, 2012, 08:30:11 am
Hey, Dueum, just for sh!ts and grins, you know a rack mount HVPS, for a good one, will run you in the hundreds if not thousands of USD, right? That lightweight HVPS diagram I sent is the best way to go...twenty or thirty bucks at the most, and its quite rugged, too if the components you use are either new or in good shape.

Jes a thought...

le
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: robomont on August 31, 2012, 01:42:17 pm
yea i did a google for hv ps and they looked like rack units but had no prices.
remember eg&g.i did a search of them and most of the company branches had something to do with hv.lmao when i saw that.now they so desperate for work,they asking for it.must have got our fleet built and stored in the mountains for d day.probly just doing maintenance now.
one of the people they were hiring was tv technicians.
notice how my idea looks kinda like a tv tube turned inside out? hmm.
if the craft was tuned just right,it may become almost invisible.somehow bending light around it or portraying a set color like sky blue.
also they arent completely invisible,just from the bottom mainly.
that clue came from the chicago ohare ufo incident.when the control tower couldnt see it overhead but the baggage handlers a mile away could.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: deuem on September 01, 2012, 01:46:26 am
I have no idea on what they are going to get as far a money goes. Alls he said is that it looks something like a rack mount would. So did my old VCR player when they first came out. they want to be able to do very fine testing on both the ampeerage and voltage. I will leave it up to them. They run an electronics factory so I guess they must know what to get. I heard they have some of these now but not in the ranges we need. So after testing it will be added to the lab equipment. This would be a cheaper unit to add for them compared to the rest of the lab. Many electric labs cost several million dollars in equipment. I don't think they will notice it.
 
The fleet is built and waiting. This sounds about right. Don't know how large it is but sound right. If the delay goes on forever or put down I will take a look at LE idea. Maybe I can get them here for even less. But as I told Z in another post, shipping anything has a $125 minimum now for US paper work issues. Only letters can go cheap but with email, who needs a letter now a days.
 
Deuem
 
 
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on September 01, 2012, 07:01:13 am
Dueum, even if they have a rack mount hv ps that puts out 300-500vdc, they can use a cheap voltage multiplier from an old tv to step it up...shouldnt be long now til youre making arcs my friend!

The fleet is done? Zorgon gets his sport model, but Id like a rugged one to bounce off other craft with, ya know jes for fun!LOL!

Like an antigravity ATV?

:D
Le
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: PLAYSWITHMACHINES on September 01, 2012, 07:30:43 am
Indeed :D

I read in Cramp's book that because each craft has it's own field, they would simply bounce off each other.
It would be actually impossible for them to crash, and they would automatically form triangles when flying in formation.
Sound familiar?

HV circuits, plenty abound, the TV flyback is still one of the best, but those transformers are becoming like gold dust, with all the new TV's being flat screens & all. :(

When i eventuallly find them, i will post some excellent DIY Tesla coil plans 8)

'standby for complete room ionisation' LOL
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on September 01, 2012, 07:33:44 am
Indeed :D

I read in Cramp's book that because each craft has it's own field, they would simply bounce off each other.
It would be actually impossible for them to crash, and they would automatically form a triangle when flying in formation.
Sound familiar?

HV circuits, plenty abound, the TV flyback is still one of the best, but those transformers are becoming like gold dust, with all the new TV's being flat screens & all. :(

When i eventuallly find them, i will post some excellent DIY Tesla coil plans 8)

'standby for complete room ionisation' LOL

See my post on the searl page, Luke...its so funny you bring up bouncing...youll see what I mean...ironic my friend!

And when I make my famous ten alarm chili, we usually achieve full room ionisation pretty quickly:-)
Le
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: PLAYSWITHMACHINES on September 01, 2012, 04:22:30 pm
I will    ;D

I love chilli... :P
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Fruitbat on October 05, 2012, 07:13:25 am

The Biefeld-Brown effect states that the negative pole will always chase the positive. Reverse the leads on a lifter, it will still lift.

Mikado

Actually. NO.

Mine lifts when I put the power the "right way" and gets heavier (by a very small but measurable amount) Admittedly, I cocked up the dimensions slightly, but everywhere I look everyone (not just you Mikado) says that the effect isn't supply polarity dependent, yet mine is..

I'd be interested in supplying precise dimensions (after re-confirming the effect) if anyone would like to do a replication of my setup, and own a lifter that is "different" to the majority.

It's always struck me that VERY little actual investigation has been done into the "lifter" phenomenon, everyone seems to assume tha the triangular construction with the specified materials represents the pinnacle of possibilities...

I think there may well better materials and configurations to be found if someone does a bit of work... 

FB!

Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: deuem on October 05, 2012, 08:23:06 am
Hi Fruitbat,
 
I would have to state that making a triangle would be the last idea I would have. It just seems that it is the cheapest and most realiable one to build that works. So everyone does them. If I ever get my power supply I will not be building a standard configuration machine. The typical triangle to me at least is very limited in what it can do with this tech. I also might be as wrong as right but what the hey!
 
If your looking for Mikado, I think he left this forum. Maybe...
 
Deuem
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Fruitbat on October 05, 2012, 02:49:25 pm
I'm not looking for mikado particualrly, but I am hoping someone will challenge me to prove my findings.

EVERYWHERE I read about lifters peoplesay that the lifiting happenes whichever way you polarise the lifter.

I got a different result, and given the potential significance of that it surprises me that no one has shown any interest.

I'd like to be helpful, and with referenceto the earlier part of this thread, where you were debating startegies for measurement of the power, I found that the eaiest way was to acquire a cheap bench PSU that went past 40V, and measured current and voltage  for the first part of the naudin PSU diagram. it was relatively easy to masure the actual powr consumed on the low voltage side, and with a simple multimeter and 40Kv HT probe combination, I could measure the actual HT voltage, and since I know the input power I can make a crude guess at the output current, becuase you can't usually get more power out of a circuit than you put into it..

Cheap and remarkably quick to get going...

I also figured out that you don't actually HAVE to have the thing as a flying item, you can make a test rig with a balance and a set of jewellery scales which accepts single sections of lifter, and thus collect data showing lift in grammes versus power consumed by the PSU...

I've ordered me up some special materials, and will shortly be testing combinations of materials and configurations to see if I can get increased lifting power or efficiency..

If I do I will of course share. MY back of an envelope calcualtions indicate tha if I can achiee a 10x multiple of lifting power it will lift it's own PSU.

I'm also investigating alternative HT transformers EG "coil in plug" types from car HT systems.

Cheers, Fruitbat!
 

Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on October 05, 2012, 07:56:36 pm
Mine only lifts off with the polarity in one direction.

Also, the airflow through it only blows whichever way the electrode polarity is changed to. Negative to positive..every time.

When I connect it in reverse, it actually becomes heavier and presses downward on the table noticeably.

My lifter lifts its own weight but not much more...maybe ten grams extra or so..

What input voltage are you using, Fruitbat?

Im seeing around 20kv at best..enough to lift it about a foot in the air.. no more.

Also, the frequency of input is important, too..the lower the input frequency, the higher the tendency for the flyback to short across the pins..and the higher the tendency for the electrodes to arc.

If youre using a 555 timer circuit, youll have to adjust the frequency first to decide the capacitor and resistor values.. I run mine from my frequency generator and the difference in the freq can realy make a difference in the performance.

But, the lower the frequency, the higher the thrust..that Ive noticed as well!

Good lifting!
Le
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: robomont on October 05, 2012, 08:52:03 pm
there shoudnt be arching.
is there a way to radius the arching points?
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on October 06, 2012, 03:12:42 am
there shoudnt be arching.
is there a way to radius the arching points?

Its just a matter of adjusting the air gap to the frequency of the lifter..no arcs then.If you over drive the airgap itll arc between the electrodes everytime..and then it can fry the 555 circuit as well.

Lifters are simple to build but take a bit of trial and error to design..its all been done on  the web though..no mysteries anymore.

Le

Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: deuem on October 06, 2012, 03:39:59 am
Is the standard, 1mm per 1K. So 20 K should have a 20mm gap ?  40K a 40mm gap and so on?
 
This is what I have been told so far with the HV.
 
Deuem
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on October 06, 2012, 05:07:51 am
Is the standard, 1mm per 1K. So 20 K should have a 20mm gap ?  40K a 40mm gap and so on?
 
This is what I have been told so far with the HV.
 
Deuem

Right you are, Dueum...1mm to 1 kv....thats for the specific frequency naudin drives his at though..if the frequency is lowered for increased output a larger gap will be necessary....test,test,test, then. ?.Fly!

Whoever here makes a lifter..do yourself a favor and attach it static first and check out the airflow through it. It will help you understand how the ionic portion of it works...if you have a vacuum chamber..then your experimenting...good luck getting a seal with the electrodes on a glass jar....its a beeotch!

Good luck!

Le
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Fruitbat on October 06, 2012, 07:19:10 am
Is the standard, 1mm per 1K. So 20 K should have a 20mm gap ?  40K a 40mm gap and so on?
 
This is what I have been told so far with the HV.
 
Deuem

It also varies with air humidity.

IS why van-de-graaf generators are a bit unpredicatable, apparently.

And LE, I did touch 40KV with my flyback design before the bad thing happened, the one involving a small fire, and of course, as soon as you got a decent smoky balsa and superglue blaze going, the electrical resistance of the air falls dramatically, followed soon after by partial failure of the eht coil, so now I only get 18Kv.

Thanks for confirming the polarity of the effect, LE. For some reason the commonly held belief, is that a lifter lifts which ever way round you connect it.

The "paranoid" in me is saying it's disinformation, adn trying to figure out why, teh scientist in my is saying maybe tehre are two ways to make a lifter one which shows the full BB effect and one which works slightly different.

And thanks for the coldness CLUE, I was too wussy to get that close to mine when it was working!
I wonder if it's the same sort of coldness reported by people like Roschin and Godin?

Got me in the mood for now, Think I'll go and have a play....

FB!
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Shasta56 on October 06, 2012, 10:21:01 am
Random thought.  Fruitbat and LE are bothworking in the northern hemisphere.  Would the polarity outcome be reversed in the southern hemisphere?

Shasta
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: PLAYSWITHMACHINES on October 06, 2012, 11:39:52 am
Jeez, i take a few days off & see what happens :)

Fruitbat, i will gladly recreate all of these experiments with various lifter formations.

I suspect that some people are blasting their lifters with too much power & causing a lot of corona discharge, which can probably  'lift' the lifter, independent of the wiring....
But if you wire it up + up on the thin wire, it will lift without all the sparks & noise.

Your basic triangle lifter is easy to make, but less than ideal, Naudin did some nice cellular ones,too.
I would like to try all of these, but i wil just go ahead with my own spiral design, which eliminates corners, and packs the biggest surface into the smallest area ;)

This will also eliminate arcing, to answer Robo's question.

Also guys, remember our testing chamber setup for lifters? Add a thermometer to the list of sensors!
Bye

Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: zorgon on October 06, 2012, 12:00:41 pm
Jeez, i take a few days off & see what happens :)

Next time you want a day off we need it in triplicate two weeks in advance :P
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: IRCyborg on October 06, 2012, 12:07:41 pm
Has anyone got one of these lifters to work in a vacuum?  If it doesn't work in a vacuum it isn't 'electrogravitics'.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on October 06, 2012, 12:56:02 pm
It also varies with air humidity.

IS why van-de-graaf generators are a bit unpredicatable, apparently.

And LE, I did touch 40KV with my flyback design before the bad thing happened, the one involving a small fire, and of course, as soon as you got a decent smoky balsa and superglue blaze going, the electrical resistance of the air falls dramatically, followed soon after by partial failure of the eht coil, so now I only get 18Kv.
Quote
Ouch, did it smell like that other stuff that burns? LOL!;)

Thanks for confirming the polarity of the effect, LE. For some reason the commonly held belief, is that a lifter lifts which ever way round you connect it.
Quote
Thats what Mikado would have had us think..now thats disinfo!
The "paranoid" in me is saying it's disinformation, adn trying to figure out why, teh scientist in my is saying maybe tehre are two ways to make a lifter one which shows the full BB effect and one which works slightly different.

And thanks for the coldness CLUE, I was too wussy to get that close to mine when it was working!
I wonder if it's the same sort of coldness reported by people like Roschin and Godin?
Quote
I definitely think so..exactly the same. :)

Got me in the mood for now, Think I'll go and have a play....

Quote
Glad youre back around more Fruitbat! Youre pretty cool!:D

FB!
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on October 06, 2012, 01:06:25 pm
Quote
Jeez, i take a few days off & see what happens :)

Fruitbat, i will gladly recreate all of these experiments with various lifter formations.
Sweet, liftin' in the Luke shop!

Quote
I suspect that some people are blasting their lifters with too much power & causing a lot of corona discharge, which can probably  'lift' the lifter, independent of the wiring....
But if you wire it up + up on the thin wire, it will lift without all the sparks & noise.

Exactly, eh Luke? Negative chases positive every time!(except for when negative resistance is in effect?) 8)

Quote
Your basic triangle lifter is easy to make, but less than ideal, Naudin did some nice cellular ones,too.
I would like to try all of these, but i wil just go ahead with my own spiral design, which eliminates corners, and packs the biggest surface into the smallest area ;)

Spiral? I like that idea,,,very cool! Mine's ten inches circular and 1 inch tall for the negative side..with a 20mm gap to the positive electrode...I drive it anywhere from 15khz-20khz.
Quote
This will also eliminate arcing, to answer Robo's question.

True, true..I get some serious arcing when I drive it below 10khz..but at that rate the lift is really strong..but it will eventually damage the flyback that way. I found the best way to do it was to make the top electrode posts adjustable.
Quote
Also guys, remember our testing chamber setup for lifters? Add a thermometer to the list of sensors!
Bye

Luke, you are the testing sensor man!!! Temperature is a great idea for the lifter chamber test rig!  And remember the clock? I think thats a cool idea, too, theres something going on around that lifter that isnt being seen yet.time dilation perhaps? Maybe thats the secret which lifters are hiding!?!?!

Hope your days off were ok, Luke, we miss you round here!

Cheers!
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: robomont on October 06, 2012, 02:03:31 pm
very interested in the spiral.
probly need higher voltage in vacuum but lower current.
interested in hearing more from you guys.

did any of yall try my solenoid idea?
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Amaterasu on October 06, 2012, 04:37:33 pm
Has anyone got one of these lifters to work in a vacuum?  If it doesn't work in a vacuum it isn't 'electrogravitics'.

Number two below.

YouTube Electrogravitics:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=490XJk053TY [/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93rsfqwGfOs [/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyZFDbyxoXM [/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njZy64BeQNo [/youtube]

And a demonstration of discs encased in resin to eliminate the "ion wind" effect:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUUq2RnnoG8 [/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NePm5RUhP8 [/youtube]
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on October 06, 2012, 04:59:20 pm
And...there you go..thanks to Amaterasu.

The info is out there..no doubt..just gotta look!

I couldnt get my vacuum chamber to seal worth a darn..so I set it aside for now, but lifters do work in a vacuum...100% certain.

Robo, do the experiments, then see for yourself..its pretty cool!

Cheers!
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: robomont on October 06, 2012, 07:44:31 pm
no access to videos unless they are 3gp downloads.all i get are your words
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on October 06, 2012, 08:10:30 pm
no access to videos unless they are 3gp downloads.all i get are your words

Basically, they are saying the lifter or eg device works in a vacuum..several versions..very authentic.

One shows an actual lifter working in what appears to be a vacuum...of course as it is a video, there's no proof.

Le
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Fruitbat on October 06, 2012, 08:10:57 pm
Thanks, for all that input guys.
We just pulled a lot of information and expertise together.
By the looks of those vids we don't need to worry about the "will it work in a vacuum?" thing either.

And by the sound of some of your postings some of you are going to have a go, at varying the basic recipe to see what happens which will be good. On guy on the original TTB site had made cylindrical lower elements and was busily proving that it was the lower electrode that was the prime mover. This begs the question of what would happen if one used other materials instead of aluminium foil?

There is so much poking about that yet needs to be done by people like us...

Can I suggest a two variables that might be worth considering, when you are selecting your first lifter / power supply combination?
 
(Particularly relevant when one of us makes a breakthrough, and the rest decide to try it too).

The PSU that we all use will likely have different peak voltage and different waveforms and different current capability. This will probably make YOUR results unique... IF you are starting a lifter project it is worth considering the naudin PSU, because at least two of us are using one, and it reduces the variables somewhat which is good for repeatability. It might be also good to make your first lifter as J naudin specified again to start from a baseline.

When you then immediately branch into varying everything until you get some magic, having the two "reference" pieces of equipment to hand, makes it instantly easier to communicate what you have done, because you can compare it directly with the operation of everyone Else's first lifter. I don't know if that makes any sense, but on the grounds that two of us at least have got the basic setup working, if yours doesn't work, or better yet works differently to what it should, then at least help is available.

LE and someone else (sorry, to be so rude but I can't remember who!) pointed out that the effect is much stronger at low frequencies, but that the flyback coils don't like the low frequencies. MAYBE a car coil as fitted in the new fangled coil in plug engines would work better and be more durable at the lower frequencies? (Those should be available in friendly scrapyards cheaper and for longer than a new flyback.)

A word about these flyback coils...

Most of us dimly understand the basic idea of a simple electrical voltage transformer. You wind a number of turns of wire round a magnetic material in a coil, and you then surround this basic coil with another coil would with a different number of turns. (For the purposes of getting across the basics may we take the first coil as ten turns of thickish enameled wire, and the second coil as being ten thousand turns of exquisitely carefully wound very fine but very well insulated wire?)  THIS GIVES a ratio of a thousand to one, and should we manage  to put a waveform of 40V peak to peak across our first coil, we will see a thousand times as much voltage developed across the second coil. 40 KV, the sort of thing that we want. HERES THE RUB: YOU actually need a fair few turns on the primary in order to get the "resistance" of the coil high enough to allow 40volts to be across it. Probably somewhere of the order of 100 turns, and therefore even using the finest of wire, that 100,000 turns of wire is going to make our step transformer Pretty big!

CUE THE FLYBACK part of the transforming... What was needed was a way of getting a bigger voltage out of the secondary coil, and that was done when some bright spark remembered magneto ignition as used in your lawnmower if it's as old as mine, and most small aeroplanes flying today. To get MORE voltage you can cheat by instead of making the turns ration bigger, you make the magnetism bigger. I don't profess to fully understand how it works, but I DO KNOW that instead of depending on a nice sine waveform being fed in like a true step up (or down it works either way) transformer, a flyback requires (ideally) a nice ramped rising edge of voltage to magnetise the core, of exactly the right duration, followed by a sharp "short circuit" and pause to allow the magnetic magic to happen (all I know is that the core material is selected to have a magnetic "charging rate" just-so and that there is a very fine air gap introduced into the magnetic core that is essential to it's operation. Far more complicated than it looks, but much more "tweakable" in that if one drives it from a function generator one can tune the waveform for maximum efficiency at the transformers fundamental frequency, but by careful reshaping of the wave one should be able to get interesting harmonics happening, which might well "do stuff" in an interesting way.

IF anyone wants to join in the search for a better lifter, be it achievable though a novel PSU, a novel configuration or novel materials, please consider taking measurements of your input voltage and input current, (In the naudin PSU you'd measure the 45volt line before the 12v regulator fro both current and voltage) to derive the input power, and find a way to measure the total thrust obtained. Anyone who wants to see how I do it, with some balsa, a pin some glue and "jewellery" scales, feel free to ask and I will send you a picture. The advantage to measuring the thrust is that you generally have to have the lifter clipped or clamped to the measuring rig, so at least the 20-30 KV isn't flying about threateningly.

Remember, THIS IS HAZARDOUS!!.

Think about the high voltage leads and what they are near to at all times. 40mm is the absolute minimum safety distance, so triple it! Keep about 4 inches between BOTH of the output wires, from each other, yourself, any piece of electronic gear that you would like to re-use, and of course, the cat.

Use a clean, dry, (known to be non-conducting!) table and always be nearer to the "off" switch than you are to the lifter when the power is on.

Get a high voltage probe, and ALWAYS check the high voltage side after disconnecting the power, BEFORE you go near that lifter, on dry days mine takes a surprising amount of time to fall below a thousand volts...

Keep one hand in your pocket whenever possible when the high voltage is on! This simple measure makes it less likely that the shock will travel from arm to arm, which in turn reduces the odds of your heart stopping which could happen if you ignore my advice and are not gifted or lucky...

Hope these few simple thoughts are useful. I'm sure that there is some interesting stuff to be done here. The advantage of working however loosely together is that we can compare results and share ideas, and maybe we can get that self lifting r/c lifter going after all.

BY my calculations IF we can get a 10x increase in overall lifting efficiency a "lifter" can be made to self lift, using modern lithium batteries, and may well make it into space!!

No one else seems to have figured this out.

Consider the lifter that lifted Orville the mouse. Bloody huge it was.
Orville weighs 65grammes.
The "maximus" lifter needed about 100 watts of power. (IIRC)
100 watts of power is available for around 30 minutes from a lithium battery weighing about 3 times as much as Orville.

IF we have 10 times as much lifting power available from our redesigned lifter (which is now 10x more efficient) then our lifter should be able to lift ten Orvilles worth of payload. given that the battery weighs three orvilles, we would have seven "Orville's" worth of payload to fit the PSU (and a handwritten note to the guys and gals up in the ISS), before first autonomous flight.
Have you ever seen a lifter take off? IT IS NOT GRADUAL..

30 minutes worth of battery power should make for a satisfying ascent.

Someone who isn't mad, please check my basic assumption and figures please, but IF i am right and we can find that magic force multiplier, space for us (And when I say "us" I mean us people right here, right now, playing with this stuff.) could get an awful lot more accessible...

(mad as a ) Fruitbat!
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on October 06, 2012, 08:23:46 pm
Zero madness at all, fruitybat!:)

I actually tried to figure out how to make a flyback..until I saw how they are made..WOW!

Id need a couple miles of wire! And the patience of a rock!

Also, many wrap their primaries with wire instead of using the inputs built into the flyback..not sure why it is necessary, but I havent needed to do that for mine.

It sounds to me like you are thinking hard, fruitbat, thats very cool!

Le
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: robomont on October 06, 2012, 08:46:41 pm
rubber shoes and maybe a few sheets of dry cardboard wouldnt hurt to stand on.

wouldnt a really large transformer winding cause shorting out through the winding?due to arching
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on October 06, 2012, 08:56:19 pm
rubber shoes and maybe a few sheets of dry cardboard wouldnt hurt to stand on.

wouldnt a really large transformer winding cause shorting out through the winding?due to arching

Only if you didnt use magnet, or transformer wire, right? I cant imagine wrapping that much wire though, it would take days of patient wrapping! :o :o

A good flyback can short out across the pins, and if it gets hit back with reverse current it could fry the internal winding..I think thats what happened to fruitbat's flyback, and one of the windings got shorted.

Yes, extreme care must be used around these things.
Rubber shoes are a plus, but a delicate touch is mandatory at all times..and also when the lifter is done being flown..make sure to short the two electrodes together..to discharge the flyback.

Le
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: IRCyborg on October 06, 2012, 10:05:20 pm
Number two below.

YouTube Electrogravitics:



Thank you for going through all the work to link those videos Amaterasu.

It would seem that my skepticism on certain subjects has already caused a ruffle in the fabric of space-time, so I digress and will not elaborate on why none of those videos were even remotely convincing.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: IRCyborg on October 06, 2012, 10:28:24 pm
Propellent-less thrust is certainly possible though, even easy.  Even if these things did work in vacuo, there is an obvious limitation to the idea that prevents a practical application.

How big would the lifter need to be to lift the battery that powers it? 


Since the title of this thread is 'The Gold Ring', I am finding it an appropriate time to share with all of you a simple concept of thrust that has already proven itself beyond all doubt....  The Wheel.

A wheel helps people move more easily on solid land. (driveshafts, transmissions, wheels, etc..)

A wheel helps people move more easily on/in liquid water. (propellers)

A wheel helps people move more easily in the gaseous atmosphere.  (propellers, turbines.)

Just what do you folks think will help us move more easily through space?

It is all so very simple, and you already know where to look to find it...but it would seem that amongst the collective knowledge of the entire unclassified population not a single one of us have managed to figure it out...  (OK, some have...but I am not telling who.)
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: IRCyborg on October 06, 2012, 10:39:12 pm
...and to add further 'proof' I ask you all to remember the awesome people of Khemet!

Zahi Hawass and his merry band of propagandists always try to tell us that the ancient Egyptians did not have an understanding of the Wheel, and this is why it is so hard to understand how the pyramids were built.

Now it is true that on all of the walls in Egypt, except the most recent dynasties such as Ptolemy's, there are no wheels to be found rolling on the ground.  This is why historians and scientists believe that the Egyptians did not have an understanding of the wheel.

Well, apparently these brilliant historians and scientists don't have an understanding of the wheel either, because the Egyptians carved hundreds and thousands of wheels all over their walls....all of them suspended in the air!

FFS, they worshipped a giant wheel in the sky!!!


It is right about now that you should start questioning both your history books and your science books, because quite frankly, if the people who wrote them can't recognize a simple wheel when they see it in plain sight they should not be trusted to teach ourselves and our children.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: robomont on October 06, 2012, 11:23:59 pm
amen
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: deuem on October 07, 2012, 01:32:26 am
How is a propeller like a wheel?  If you said they all have axels, I would agree on that one. But cutting through water or air with a blades is a lot different than rolling something on a wheel.
 
Back to axels, If you want to go there, you got my attension, spinning forces work best for all mentioned so far. So what happens in space, do we still need spinning forces. If we look at the Sci-fi movies, they all think so. The spin puts the gravity in motion, So they say. Other than gravity and getting real dizy I can't see a reason for spinining in space for a craft. Maybe there is something there, I am willing to listen......Deuem
 
 
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: thorfourwinds on October 07, 2012, 03:30:06 am
How is a propeller like a wheel?  If you said they all have axels, I would agree on that one. But cutting through water or air with a blades is a lot different than rolling something on a wheel.
 
Back to axels, If you want to go there, you got my attension, spinning forces work best for all mentioned so far. So what happens in space, do we still need spinning forces. If we look at the Sci-fi movies, they all think so. The spin puts the gravity in motion, So they say. Other than gravity and getting real dizy I can't see a reason for spinining in space for a craft. Maybe there is something there, I am willing to listen......Deuem

Greetings:

Quote
The spin puts the gravity in motion

Actually, we were of the impression that 'the spin' had something to do with pulsed electrogravitics (Amy, help us here, please)    :-[

or actually 'negating' gravitational forces so as to reduce/eliminate the 'gravitational effect' on the craft and occupants.

Of course, as IRCyborg will be quick to inform you, that’s old hat, as even published information was available 15 years ago.


"Retired Air Force Colonel Donald Ware has passed on to me information from a three-star general he knows who revealed to him in July that 'the new Lockheed-Martin space shuttle (Space Plane) and the B-2 (stealth bomber) both have electrogravitic systems on board' and that 'this explains why our 21 Northrop B-2s cost about a billion dollars each.'

Thus, after taking off conventionally, the B-2 can switch to antigravity mode, and, I have heard, fly around the world without refueling." - Dr. Richard Boylan, Sept. 22, 1997, Sacramento, CA


(http://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w400/thorfourwinds/October%201-15%202012/DSP_Image_Daedalus.jpg) (http://orbitalvector.com/Deep%20Space%20Propulsion/Nuclear%20Pulse%20Drives/Nuclear%20Pulse%20Drives.htm)

The Nuclear-Pulse-powered DAEDALUS interstellar probe.


The Daedalus was the program between Medusa and Vista.

So, where does this trail now lead?

Peace Love Light

tfw
   (http://serve.mysmiley.net/animals/animal0028.gif) (http://)

Liberty & Equality or Revolution
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: deuem on October 07, 2012, 03:56:21 am
I think the trail leads more to a spinning vortex as in nature. A force that re-cycles over and over, like the magnetic fields. Depending on how one might look at it it could be a wheel shape. The old wheel within a wheel idea comes to mind. And for every force there is an opposite force of equal power. This, if looped might self maintain for a longer time vs a rocket motor... Deuem
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on October 07, 2012, 05:49:58 am
I think Ezekiel got a shot at that wheel in the sky.

So did the Indians, with their Vimanas.

And the Nazis....

A galaxy is a wheel, a solar system is a wheel, and quite likely, if we could envision it as a whole..the universe would look like a wheel.

At every scalar level, are wheels and wheel-like features..down to Robomont's infinity.... Not particles.

Everything vibrates as the Esoteric says..but everything also spins perpetually in one state or another..as a part of another spinning conglomerate, or down to its infinite minutia..

Frequency and spin..hence the apparent assemblage of matter..thats why Cymatic patterns always appear circular.

Ezekiel said he saw wheels within wheels...now that is important information there..very.

Ezekiel saw the flower of life.
Le

Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Fruitbat on October 07, 2012, 06:06:13 am
IR cyborg.

I agree, you can't trust videos on you tube of alternative or new technologies.
So if you are "not convinced" then you have two sensible choices don't you?
You have to either walk away and try to find something else more convincing to look at, OR you have to do some independent work and physically examine the issues.
As is obvious everywhere you look now, the practice of casual and gross dishonesty is so universal since we clever people abandoned the concept of an across the board moral framework, that there is little alternative but to put these things to the test.

Of course there is always the third choice, that of endlessly debating things on the basis of "that don't look right to me", but for myself, I quite enjoy being able to say "I've done that and it worked this way". When someone then tries to argue that it does not work that way and promote false or incomplete information (such as the oft reported "lifters lift regardless of supply polarity" fallacy) nothing beats being able to say:

I've done this, it works thus, and I have the capability to prove it.  

It always amazes me how people think being an armchair pundit with a good line of rap, is somehow more rewarding than getting off your backside, spending a bit of time, money, and physical effort actually investigating the issues first hand. To be fair though, it further amazes me that people like me who do spend the afore mentioned time money and effort, and have a clear vision of how this emerging technology can be developed, and what needs to be done, spend so much time engaged in punditry, and so little actually getting on with the science once they actually have a working setup to play with.

And to answer ThorFourWinds excellent question; "Where does this lead to now?" the answer is we don't know... The appallingly misnamed (IMHO) fledgling science of electrogravitics has been so lightly explored thus far, that we don't know if it's a dead end or the route to the stars. What we do know, is that more actual physical science needs to be done by people like US.

To this end, I am going to put my money where my mouth is and offer a public service.

I will support anyone who reads this thread and wants to get started in lifter work, to complete a  basic naudin lifter setup as quickly and cheaply as possible. This support is to include assistance in locating and obtaining the required parts as cheaply and quickly as possible. I can provide skype based telephone support pretty much 24/7 if you need it with the aim of getting your personal lifter from conception to proof within 2 weeks. All you need is the "will to win", some cash, (200$ worst case scenario that I can forsee, mine cost about 75$ and three days actual intermittent work including collection of the bits I needed, but it could have cost more).

I can promise you, that a working lifter IS something special. I never tire of showing visitors my "antigravity" machine, and whilst they are marvelling (most do marvel, because most people believe that we already know everything worth knowing, and the evidence fizzing and levitating in front of them does not quite fit with that assumption) I then gently explain that this isn't actually "antigravity", it's "electro-inertial transductance", it's new, and it's eventually going to change the world and you have been amongst the first to see it.

Of course it's a pile of lies, thousands of people have built ONE BASIC design, "it doesn't even fly it's own power supply!" so it must be a dead end. It'll never work as a viable space drive some people say. On the other hand there is the irrefutable evidence provided my one Mr Thomas Edison, (who when he wasn't fighting with that cranky looking Tesla bloke, was busy making a shitload of money out of his electric light bulb with the tingsten filament) realised that just because everyone Else's attempt to make an electric light was rubbish, it didn't have to be that way for ever if someone actually did some testing.

YOU could be the new "Edison" in this emerging scientific field, simply by making your own lifter, seeing what it does, and then seeing if you can think of a way of making it do it better.

Although the Edison method requires more in the way of work, and wastes more time doing stuff that does not work than the Tesla or Townsend brown "think up a completely new concept off the top of my head and then just make a staggeringly clever thing" approach, as Edison pointed out so cogently, "I may not have yet succeeded in making an electric lamp yet, but I now know several hundred ways of NOT making one". We just need more people actually doing experiments right now, who are brave enough to try stuff, until they discover something new.

Finally for the conspiracy theorists out there, would someone please explain why whenever I try to alter the inaccurate wikipedia article about electrogravitics to fit in with the observed facts, someone always deletes my input? It seems that some knowledge needs to be regularly  refreshed on wikipedia if it is to survive, which is of course a whole different an much more boring task than actually doing science.  If anyone feels like being a true champion of truth, and fancies taking on that simple challenge of keeping wikipedia honest in their "electrogravitics" article, (It does seem to require a variation on the "armchair punditry" I was being so seemingly dismissive of early in this posting, but for once the basic human need to slug it out on the internet could actually be put to good use. theres a definite longstanding and well maintained factual inaccuracy out there, two of us have proven it by doing the practical work, now it actually needs someone who enjoys "endless and pointless arguing" to go and engage with the other people who also seemingly enjoy pointless and endless arguing to keep the small flicker of truth burning that people like myself and LE have brought in from the scientific wilderness).

Whether you enjoy punditry or scientific engineering, the real question I would ask of you is: How devoted are you to pursuing the truth in what you do?

And how much of your time, effort of money can you afford to spend on this?

FB!
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on October 07, 2012, 06:21:04 am
Fruitbat, youre a fresh breeze of wisdom, flowing through a strict skeptical world of rigidity and disbelief.

I had pondered the lifter for too long myself, and made the effort to do it again this summer..and Im glad I did..because not only did it lift and move air..it showed me something else which noone mentions or perhaps even notices..for one.....

The coolness of the air coming through it....For two....

The extreme level of ozone released from its reaction....For three

When it operates, I get a feeling I cant describe, as if there is a sort of loss of reality, or dilation effect..it's really weird and I wonder if you sense it, too?

It extends into the entire house from my shop, and when the lifter is at perfect balance, even my wife says..hey I feel funny, like Ive stepped into a big box.

Not to sound like a nutter, but thats what really amazed me into my eventual theory about lifters..not how they lift, but what they do to their surroundings.

I think someday we will join with Luke and build that chamber, with the clock and different sensors...and then we may all agree that lifting is the least of our worries as far as lifters are concerned....
 8)

Cheers, Fruitbat!

Le
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: thorfourwinds on October 07, 2012, 06:25:41 am
Greetings friend and Esteemed Member Fruitbat:

Most Excellent!    8)

You always manage to hide so much valuable information in your "armchair punditry"    :o

We'll back you up by giving you your own thread for this endeavor
and assist where ever possible with graphics, edit, format - whatever    ;D

Maybe TEAM RABUN will build one    :o

AmaterasuSolar, are you up for this    ???


Ummmmm, a name for such an adventure ...

how about

The
Electro-Inertial
Transductance

Workshop





tfw
   (http://serve.mysmiley.net/animals/animal0028.gif) (http://)
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on October 07, 2012, 06:34:11 am
Thor hits it on the head again!

Electro Inertial Transductance workshop!

I think that would definitely put the electrogravitic crowd to rest...and make the technology within seem much more new and fresh..worthy of every effort and interest.

Theres a force about this effect which it seems is right there for the taking...perhaps FB's wiki entries were delted for a sinister reason?

Fruitbat was getting too close!  Wiki doesnt deserve the level of passion and desire to affect change as Fruitbat brings to the table.

PRC is the perfect home for it..and a separate page is a great idea, Thor!

Ill be keeping an eye to the North Georgia sky, for that coronal discharge from Rabun county!

Cheers!
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: thorfourwinds on October 07, 2012, 06:34:19 am

I think someday we will join with Luke and build that chamber, with the clock and different sensors...and then we may all agree that lifting is the least of our worries as far as lifters are concerned....
 8)

Cheers, Fruitbat!

Le

Greetings, Esteemed Member LeDave    ;D

How's things in Rio Linda?    ???


We seem to remember this clock from a recent discussion...


(http://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w400/thorfourwinds/October%201-15%202012/Dollardclock1.png)


Peace Love Light

tfw
   (http://serve.mysmiley.net/animals/animal0028.gif) (http://)

Liberty & Equality or Revolution
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on October 07, 2012, 06:57:40 am
Things are well on the front here, Thor! Thanks for asking!

And in the hilly terrain of your hearth?

Now, thats a cool clock! I love Leedskalnin's world..it might be a bit mystical, but thats how you protect the knowledge from the evil minds!;)

Also, that clock, does resemble something else we discussed on another thread..a wheel.. :o

7red's PMH is one link in the reconstruction of Ed's wheel...is there funding for such an endeavour?  8)

Someday, perhaps we can join together with you and family, along with Amy and whoever wants to, and have a PRC trip to Coral Castle..that would be delightful!

Tick tock..times a ticking!:D

Cheers!
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: deuem on October 07, 2012, 07:11:26 am
I like the money where the mouth is idea. I say that a lot also.
 
For the lifters, a lot of people say it is a dead end of sorts but I don't agree. Hi-Tech changes every day. I am sure if and when the first lifter works on its own a new day will emerge. I am currently stuck on control surfaces with no moving parts. If I have to shift the HV then I need more than one power supply. Breaking 40K is not easy to do but 9v is easy.
 
Any lifter worth while has to fly on its own power and be able to make flight corrections and then hover when needed .It also has to be stable in a slight wind when not moving. I do have some new radio controlled single or double axis electronic gyros that I plan on using for a stable hover.  They are now using these in the new RC helicopters. Maybe 1/2 inch square and 1/8 thick. The wire that goes to them is the heavy part and also the plastic case. So they have to be changed and board mounted to get them lighter.
 
Our initial on board PS should keep that lifter posted in this thread, (the cheap triangle one) for maybe 3 hours. Now it would never get that portable PS off the ground so there needs to be a solution between weights, fly time and lifting capacity. I figure anything over 10 minutes would be a nice first step.
 
Since I am having trouble getting them to pick a bench PS, maybe I will go at it in reverse. Make the portable PS and see what it takes to lift it.
 
The second problem is programming the log rhythms in order to stabilize the flight.  I need the gyros to back talk to the CPU chip and make adjustments to the power. Remember, no moving parts. Movable landing gear would be the only exception.
 
Deuem
 
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: deuem on October 07, 2012, 07:20:00 am
Another question to anyone. If you were to take a piece of paper and place it between the wires, would it still lift. What I want to know is how much help, if any does the wind help. I am thinking it does nothing except make a gentle breeze but i can't see how that would lift anything. I have read this wind would need to be 100 times faster to do anything worth while. If the paper in between stopped it then what about incasing it.    Deuem
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Amaterasu on October 07, 2012, 07:21:06 am
Only if you didnt use magnet, or transformer wire, right? I cant imagine wrapping that much wire though, it would take days of patient wrapping! :o :o

A good flyback can short out across the pins, and if it gets hit back with reverse current it could fry the internal winding..I think thats what happened to fruitbat's flyback, and one of the windings got shorted.

Yes, extreme care must be used around these things.
Rubber shoes are a plus, but a delicate touch is mandatory at all times..and also when the lifter is done being flown..make sure to short the two electrodes together..to discharge the flyback.

Le

Will wrap wire for luxuries - like organic tobacco.  Oh, and for money, too.

(I did a lot of wire wrapping for My ex, the inventor...)
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on October 07, 2012, 08:07:11 am
Lol! Youre a good sport, Amy...maybe we could hire some out of work hip hop musicians..they seem to rap well... :o

Cheers!
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Amaterasu on October 07, 2012, 08:23:07 am
LOL!  Dave Y'are a kick in the pants, Y'are!
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: SarK0Y on October 07, 2012, 03:27:56 pm
I like the money where the mouth is idea. I say that a lot also.
 
For the lifters, a lot of people say it is a dead end of sorts but I don't agree. Hi-Tech changes every day. I am sure if and when the first lifter works on its own a new day will emerge. I am currently stuck on control surfaces with no moving parts. If I have to shift the HV then I need more than one power supply. Breaking 40K is not easy to do but 9v is easy.
 
Any lifter worth while has to fly on its own power and be able to make flight corrections and then hover when needed .It also has to be stable in a slight wind when not moving. I do have some new radio controlled single or double axis electronic gyros that I plan on using for a stable hover.  They are now using these in the new RC helicopters. Maybe 1/2 inch square and 1/8 thick. The wire that goes to them is the heavy part and also the plastic case. So they have to be changed and board mounted to get them lighter.
 
Our initial on board PS should keep that lifter posted in this thread, (the cheap triangle one) for maybe 3 hours. Now it would never get that portable PS off the ground so there needs to be a solution between weights, fly time and lifting capacity. I figure anything over 10 minutes would be a nice first step.
 
Since I am having trouble getting them to pick a bench PS, maybe I will go at it in reverse. Make the portable PS and see what it takes to lift it.
 
The second problem is programming the log rhythms in order to stabilize the flight.  I need the gyros to back talk to the CPU chip and make adjustments to the power. Remember, no moving parts. Movable landing gear would be the only exception.
 
Deuem
at nowdays, it's very unlikely to get portable power supply with so huge output & A*h. but if we could have appropriate material to make wires about  200km length, it would make possible to've lifter. + seems it'd be interesting stuff to generate electricity  ;)
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Fruitbat on October 09, 2012, 06:45:45 am
Thank you very much for the Kudos and kind words, chaps, although I enjoyed it, it
 is a little misplaced, because I haven't done much but talk for over 12 months now.

However, I can tell you that the main problem with the lifter isn't whether it works by ion wind, electro-inertial transductance, electrogravitics, or even magic.

The problem isn't one of control, and I promise you guys, control will be easy, the technolgies needed are readily available. I Know how to switch the 40Kv around using a nine gram R/c servo, and some plastic and bits of wire. Think car distributor, or high voltage contactor, but since we are only dealing with 1mA of current it can be made of physically lightweight and cheap materials, just so long as the geometry is right.

The problem is simply that there isn't enough power to lift itself and it's PSU.

THIS is the only problem that really stops the lfter from being seriously useful and interesting.

Now, WE KNOW that the basic lifter is not the best possible design simply by looking at it.

ALL that remains, AFAICS is to keep the faith that it can be improved, and make small but real efforts individually.

IF someone wants to start a thread, and if it is useful I can take some photos of the basic, cheap cheerful, (and until proven otherwise) accurate and sensitive apparatus I use to measure lifting efficiency) and because I will have to set up the apparatus again, It'll get me working again, in teh field a bit sooner....

In the meantime, I have to go and take some steps to secure the area where it is stored...

Cheers, Steve C.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: PLAYSWITHMACHINES on October 09, 2012, 02:22:31 pm
Guys, the reasons for using a spiral i already pointed out, and triangles are crap because they have sharp corners and take up a lot of space & material for very little surface area.

The trick is to see how much area you can fit in a small space, I.E. how much foil & wire you can use.
You don't need to increase the voltage much above 50K IMO because it will simply ionise more air--great for party tricks but it's more ion than BB effect at this stage. It's all about area.

What you will also need is the thinnest wire possible, and the top edge of the foil rounded, ny own plan would be to wrap it around a strut so that it gives a nice big radius opposite the very small radius of the thin wire. This also gives the strut 2 functions instead of just being baggage ;)

Will lifters work in a vacuum?
For one thing, you will need to increase the voltage to counter for the vacuum, and since the dielectric medium (air in this case) has been removed, the BB effect will be too small to measure.
Of course, if you had a solid dielectric instead of air, it will work anywhere, and even better in a vacuum because there will be no current drain due to ionisation etc etc....

The fact that a spiral is also a coil seems to have gone unnoticed so far...... ::)

Quote
Its just a matter of adjusting the air gap to the frequency of the lifter..no arcs then.If you over drive the airgap itll arc between the electrodes everytime..and then it can fry the 555 circuit as well.

Who cares? they cost 50 cents :) And a plug-in chip-holder about 10 cents, that saves a lot of time replacing them.
Tip for inventors: You will be doing this more often than you think, even on that 'final design'. Use chip holders.
I like the smell of fried silicon in the morning.....
 

Quote
This begs the question of what would happen if one used other materials instead of aluminium foil?

How about Barium Hafnium Titanate?
About as common as rocking horse poop....
Tungsten, rhodium, even platinum is high on the list of possible materials.
If you want lighter than ally though, you will need something like magnesium foil.
You will get a really powerful lifter, until the first spark turns it into a flare 8)

I loved that post Fruitbat, spot on.
Quote
Keep one hand in your pocket whenever possible when the high voltage is on! This simple measure makes it less likely that the shock will travel from arm to arm, which in turn reduces the odds of your heart stopping which could happen if you ignore my advice and are not gifted or lucky...

...And try to look nonchalant about it :)

I have survived several 'arm-to-arm' shocks, one at 440v AC.
It did stop my heart, but i was lucky because the impact of me hitting the wall & then the floor, started it again.
Heed the wise words from Fruitbat.

Quote
Also, many wrap their primaries with wire instead of using the inputs built into the flyback..not sure why it is necessary, but I havent needed to do that for mine.

Well, i guess if your'e running it near it's design voltage & frequency, it will work perfectly.

Normally i wind my own primaries in order to use lower voltage drivers, preferably 12v (for obvious reasons)

Quote
wouldnt a really large transformer winding cause shorting out through the winding?due to arching

Nah, they use tricks like vacuum chambers to get the air out between the windings, and they let resin in, & bake it hard, and they are using carefully layered windings, so that the voltage between layers is scarcely more than a few hundred volts. Of course, the input & output of that coil are kept as far apart as possible, as are the primary connections ;)

Tip for inventors: Get one of those 'contactless mains testers'- the best one being from Fluke.They work great for detecting high voltages, RF radiation etc etc. Pricey, but invaluable.....

Wheels?
As in gyroscopes?
They use them to steer the Hubble & keep it steady.
We are aware of the rotation connection, but that's for another thread IMO

Again, this argument on lifters still does not explain a very simple phenomenon. That they lift using 2 forces is known, the fact that they work in a vacuum is known. The effect is exponential with regards to field stress is known. That there are several means of acheiving this is also known.

A 10:1 lift-to-weight ratio?
Sure, why not?

I'm not through reading this thread, will come back tomorrow.
Busy here :)
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: robomont on October 10, 2012, 07:26:49 am
pwm,i didnt know about the threshhold being 50k.thanks.most of my ideas are theoretical not experimental.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: deuem on October 10, 2012, 07:32:14 am
All of the new hi-tech gyroscopes have no moving parts. The expensive ones are laser driven optics. I don't know what Hubble has. Moving or laser.
 
Question:  If you have a circle of foil on the bottom, Do you also need a circle above or would a point work. Make an electric cone?   Deuem
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on October 10, 2012, 09:13:38 am
Luke, I had to think about the spiral, but it just came to me...an array of electrodes positioned inside of a tapering vortex tube, charged to allow the chasing charge to spin around the inner tube as it rises..effectively creating a vacuum which would lift the device, or craft..Ill make a drawing tonight..I think itll help me see the final design better..
dont push up..pull up!

Cheers!
Dave
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: PLAYSWITHMACHINES on October 10, 2012, 01:20:28 pm
Gold for that wonderful post Steve.
Quote
Whether you enjoy punditry or scientific engineering, the real question I would ask of you is: How devoted are you to pursuing the truth in what you do?

And how much of your time, effort of money can you afford to spend on this?

That's the question isn't it? If you want the answer bad enough you will put everything into it, time ,money, whatever it takes.
 I guess i've spent a couple of thousand a year for 25 years, that makes a tidy sum.
But i would rather spend it on my 'hobby' (read: life's work) than pour it down my throat in the pub or have a t.v. the size of a football field, or the latest sneakers :P
At least i've got something more to show than just a hangover....

You too, Dave:
Quote
When it operates, I get a feeling I cant describe, as if there is a sort of loss of reality, or dilation effect..it's really weird and I wonder if you sense it, too?
Like all animals, we are sensitive to electric fields, we have maybe lost that sense due to all the electrical 'noise' we generate around us. I certainly feel 'something' when i fire up all that stuff in the attic, i can feel the charges moving around me, going through me.....

Quote
Not to sound like a nutter, but thats what really amazed me into my eventual theory about lifters..not how they lift, but what they do to their surroundings.

That's because of all the negative ions, good for the health, they say ::)
Ozone is bad for humans, by the way, it acts like acid in the lungs, but up there in the stratosphere, it protects us....

Quote
I think someday we will join with Luke and build that chamber, with the clock and different sensors...and then we may all agree that lifting is the least of our worries as far as lifters are concerned....

I solemly promise i will build that chamber, we don't need proof, we have that. What we need is more research on the phenomenon.
 Since i have more sensors than i know what to do with, it would be my bliss, as Amy puts it, to build one. It will be an 'uplifting experience' ;)
(Actually, i have to build 3 chambers now, a vac chamber, a plasma/microwave chamber, and now the lifter chamber LOL might as well do all 3 at once, it saves time)

The problem with Wiki is...peer review. There are about 2500 volunteers (mostly students) who do the checking, they are dilligent & do the best they can, I use Wiki a lot, it's better than G@@gle in any case.
The problem is, they can only 'moderate' according to what they know (or think they do, that gay irish poet said once "i'm not young enough to know everything" LOL)
To give them some credit, they clearly post if the source is confirmed or not, they clearly mark some topics as 'needing verification' etc.
OK i understand it peeves you Steve, that they may have edited your editing, but maybe they should go check the SOURCE, like TTB's notebooks, or LaViolettes work.
'forgive them, they know not what they do' is my motto....

Of course, those same people will be all over it when it does turn out to be true :P and they will probably be the ones to profit from it, too...
But there you go, life is like a box of chocolates, aint it?

A cone sounds great Dave, although i must admit my conical tesla coil didn't do very much..
I put it down to bad geometry, i was just plucking dimensions out of the air without thinking about it.

This of course is just laziness on my part, i really should meditate more, and then get the Casio out ;)
Let's see that drawing, mate, & i'll try to get an accurate thermometer with digital redout etc for the lifter chamber.
The cold thing may be a very imprtant clue for us, and i want to have it verified or dismissed ASAP.
OK i'm off to do an update on the Perendev motor...
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: robomont on October 10, 2012, 04:44:22 pm
ive heard of using hv to cool things.maybe the ions strip heat away.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: zorgon on October 10, 2012, 05:41:06 pm
23 Pages :D

Ya know... when I started this thread the "Gold Ring" was in reference to HE3 Fusion Confinement

I knew at the time it would switch focus... sort of a test :D

But carry on :D I will put the fusion in a new thread :P
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: starwarp2000 on October 10, 2012, 06:08:18 pm

I like the smell of fried silicon in the morning.....

"It smells like.........victory!"   :)
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: PLAYSWITHMACHINES on October 17, 2012, 01:50:06 pm
Quote
Our initial on board PS should keep that lifter posted in this thread, (the cheap triangle one) for maybe 3 hours. Now it would never get that portable PS off the ground so there needs to be a solution between weights, fly time and lifting capacity. I figure anything over 10 minutes would be a nice first step.
 
Yes.
Quote
Since I am having trouble getting them to pick a bench PS, maybe I will go at it in reverse. Make the portable PS and see what it takes to lift it.
Exactly :) That's the way to go.
Think in watts. How many watts does it take to lift a lifter?
Not much, and this is the triangle, not the best shape for a lifter.

I think any of you experimenting with this should look at how much surface area you can lift, with a given wattage of power......

Quote
The problem isn't one of control, and I promise you guys, control will be easy, the technolgies needed are readily available. I Know how to switch the 40Kv around using a nine gram R/c servo, and some plastic and bits of wire. Think car distributor, or high voltage contactor, but since we are only dealing with 1mA of current it can be made of physically lightweight and cheap materials, just so long as the geometry is right.
Right, Steve, this is the way to go, please draw up some plans for us...

Sorry, Zorgon, but fusion research is a little more costly & difficult (NOT impossible by any means) but we really need to get to the root of this first.

I think that a combination of lifter/gravitor techniques will 'get us of the ground' LOl.
I will start some tests of nano-caps versus NiMH cells to see which packs the most power/weight ratio.
This needs to be done, & i have all the equipment to do it...

Starwarp: you can not only smell it, you can feel it, it's like a drug...

ETA:
Quote
ive heard of using hv to cool things.maybe the ions strip heat away.

They do.
Title: Just to add....
Post by: PLAYSWITHMACHINES on October 17, 2012, 01:57:12 pm
That last comment from Robomont set me thinking....

The one 'anomaly' that seems to return to haunt us...

One of the things i would like to sort out is this 'cold' anomaly associated with HV & rotating magnet systems, is it real or not?

Your thoughts on this, please.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: robomont on October 17, 2012, 05:35:27 pm
if the air is cold then the density should improve lift.
im curious what you find out about the caps versus nmh bat.
i also read nmh has no memory.
if this is true then them batteries could last a lifetime?
if you could get the thing to lift for eight seconds ,i would call it success.
thats how long a bull rider stays on i think?
Title: Re: Just to add....
Post by: starwarp2000 on October 17, 2012, 06:23:51 pm

One of the things i would like to sort out is this 'cold' anomaly associated with HV & rotating magnet systems, is it real or not?

Your thoughts on this, please.

Telsa spoke about those 'cold' effects of his Radiant Energy, and how, when placing your hand in the stream (without fear of shock: as the frequencies are too high to penetrate the skin) a feeling of 'coldness' was experienced.
Was this a 'perceived' cold or was it really the compression of the Aether into a finer 'filament' of cohesion?
Hannes Alfven studied 'Plasma Pinches' and this could be the same process, whereby the medium compresses into a more ordered structure and thereby allows enormous current flows through space. (Case in point: The Current arc from the Sun to Jupiter is 7 Trillion Amps, and to the Earth about 6 billion Amps)
So in an extremely condensed area of space, wouldn't the energetic structure draw 'heat' from it's surroundings. As 'heat' is just another form of the same energy, this is highly likely.
I suppose we should also throw in Faraday and Tesla's 'Tubes of Force' whereby the 'Frozen Magnetic Lines of Force' become carriers of Momentum.
Lightning is actually cold, and there is mounting evidence that the Sun isn't a hot ball of gas, as we have been led to believe.
Food for though PWM?  :)
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Fruitbat on October 17, 2012, 07:25:52 pm
They all report cold attending HV/"gravitic" manifestaions.
Huchison, godin, the 3m plant forcefield accident, Littlenki.
I'll keep an eye out for cold, when doing the lifter experimentation.

I'll be looking for more lift per surface area first, with equal or greater electrical conversion efficiency than the basic triangle lifter.

I seriously believe that we will get one into space! (IF we can just get a 10x increase in overall efficiency, this will allow us to use a lipo battery and flyback(s) for the HT generation for maybe 10-20 minutes) If the acceleration isn't limited by aerodynamics, which is why I am looking to compact the thrusters. I think Luke has got something with his spirals, and will be making a spirally lifter very soon. I think some very expanded foam would be best for this one, any idea which foams insulate best and which foams have the highest K anyone? I will endeavour to make my spirals closely conforming, freely rotatable or variable fixing. Being able to measure (and occasionally record when feeling particularly methodical) input power, output voltage and grams of linear thrust obtained is particularly vital if we are going to co-operate.

Anyone lacking the wherewithal to make these measurements themselves, feel free to ask. But in nutshell you get the meters shunt and HV probe cheap off ebay, and make a balance to measure thrust out of balsa wood (or titanium I-Beams if you are really hopeful, about your thrust) using cheap digital "jewellery" scales, again, off ebay.

I spent about 70 quid in total, including the psu, lifter and all metering. But I did start with a fluke multimeter and a cheap chinese multimeter. (Them dirt cheap chinky digital multimeters are really quite reliable in my experience, as are the digital calipers, again ridiculously cheap.) This is the cheapest and most rewarding hobby I have ever had. (Yeah, I know it's real important, but I have issues with "work" and tend to commit far easier to a hobby, or a woman or a holiday or a cat than I do to "work" :c)

SO. Looks like some of you listened to your uncle Fruitbat, and came up with some good ideas. :c)

power/density or watts/grammes of the battery is important, maybe nano caps will do. I'm thinking 50-100watt hours at the moment, and that's at not many Orvilles for LIPO batteries.
Mass penalty of stepping low voltage up to 50KV@1MA (I'm limited to around 18KV I think with my wounded flyback, 25-30 when I get a new one using the naudin PSU, so that's what I will test at. I figure that if I do my initial developement work at that relatively low voltage and actually make some progress either though stealing someones novel configuration (PWM) or coming up with something myself, Anyone who started with a naudin basic lifter setup, will be set to take advantage of it immediately. 

Just to reiterate: Naudin lifted "Orville" a 65 gramme mouse (hence I use Orvilles as a basic unit of payload mass) using about 100 watts (IIRC) and a huge fragile lifter. Common sense (and a bit of aeromodelling experience helps), says that if you just scaled the craft up you could lift more weight, and since my proposed self contained (remote enabled!) power supply which is nearly man enough elctrically speaking to do it, would weigh about ten Orvilles making the resultant lifter unable to leave the hangar. So the key is to make the thrusters 10x smaller OR ten times more efficient. OR, ideally, both.

This truly looks doable to me. Any one else agree?

FB!
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: zorgon on October 17, 2012, 09:00:53 pm
Does Orville haz a parachute?

 ::)
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: robomont on October 17, 2012, 09:20:50 pm
instead of a wire,could you use a bb on a stiff wire as the top electrode?
what about can spray foam?
there are two types.white and yellow.the yellow is stiffer and easier to carve or shape.
i dont know its k value but i bet its high.its density and weight are close to polistyrene/foam packing peanuts
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: starwarp2000 on October 17, 2012, 09:45:44 pm
instead of a wire,could you use a bb on a stiff wire as the top electrode?
what about can spray foam?
there are two types.white and yellow.the yellow is stiffer and easier to carve or shape.
i dont know its k value but i bet its high.its density and weight are close to polistyrene/foam packing peanuts

TYPICAL PROPERTIES OF CURED FOAM

Dielectric constant, 10 GHz: 1.04 - 1.06
Dissipation factor, 10 GHz: 0.001 0.001
Compressive strength, psi: 30 50
Compressive modulus, psi: 500 800
Thermal conductivity,BTU-in/hr-ft2-oF: 0.012 0.018
Water absorption, 24hr.: 3.0% max.
Service Temp, oC (oF): -40 to +100 (-40 to +210)

http://www.cumingmicrowave.com/pdf/210-Dielectrics/210-8%20C-FOAM%20PK.pdf (http://www.cumingmicrowave.com/pdf/210-Dielectrics/210-8%20C-FOAM%20PK.pdf)

Very Low!  :)
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: starwarp2000 on October 17, 2012, 09:47:10 pm
Does Orville haz a parachute?

 ::)

Orville is no more  ;D

Either the parachute didn't open, He was zapped, or he landed in a Cat Farm  ;D
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: PLAYSWITHMACHINES on October 18, 2012, 01:07:46 am
Starwarp is right, foam is useless.
It has fairly low resistance because of the air in it, any HV will just zap straight through it. Been there, done that 8)

But we have also found some very suitable materials, i would like to buid a lifter from magnesium foil, see how high it floats before a spark turns it into a flare...
I might have a go at a lightweight power supply, we at least then have something to build on. It's just a question of surface area, we will probably need a lifter 10 feet across in order to carry it's own supply.

I'm off to the supermarket to fill a trolley with Bak-o-Foil
 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Fruitbat on October 18, 2012, 07:05:50 am
Fruitbat.PWM.

May I be so bold as to point out that at this stage in the development, "how high it floats" is entertaining, but no where near as useful as how much thrust is obtained from how many watts of input power at whatever voltage you choose to use...

It is tables of data, in an agreed format exchanged between ourselves, together with the new configurations that will lead to the fastest progress (IMHO :c).

IF we are gong to collaborate usefully, we will also need to be quite clear as individuals that those who want to "chase the money" will practice "delayed gratification" until AFTER the project goal is met, which by the sound of it is to make a self lifting lifter, and it's duplicates for those who want one. Knowing myself I'll be quite likely to carry on afterward with the co-operating, but at the point we get it working I can imagine that some of us may have different ideas.

For me that's OK, it's human nature, but before the squabbling starts I'd like us to make a bit of solid progress!

We got a good little project here, that has a calculable probablity of success (I lack the skills or inclination to do said calculation, and am relying on the "upside" of my ADD to guide me here, but it's usually right, (is why it's a good thing to have, has saved my metaphorical ass and others on many an occasion) and will reward both individual and collaborative efforts. All we have to do is be open and honest in our endeavour, and it will work well.

Hope you don't mind the tone of "guidance" that creeps in to some pf my postings, but I have been mentally working out how I'm gong to make a self powered lifter alone for some 12 months now, I'm slightly qualified to help you plan and co-ordinate your effort, and would very much like to see this thing done, it will be much fun. (Providing no one kills themselves, remember a lifter is the very embodiment of a high voltage charged capacitor, which in turn is the very embodiement of DANGER to those who's bodies conduct electricity..) My lifter holds 4000v for much longer than you would expect. WITH THIS STUFF THE POWER ISN'T OFF UNTIL YOU HAVE MEASURED THAT IT IS OFF!!! There, that bit of "shouting" should keep 'em safe.

*Note to self* Capacitance may need to be measured later, but the meter is very cheap, off ebay thank goodness.

Gotta go, have a geiger tube to pick up. It's now got to the stage where I need to chart radiation trends over here. Yesterday I ws getting seven times as much as I should have. and I am as far away on this hemisphere as you can get from Fukinshambles. I worry for you 'mericans, I really do.

I don't think our media is serving us very well. I also don't think there is enough seaweed for all uf us either.
I'm sorry we hijacked this thread Zorgon, with our talk of lifters etc, but I'm glad we did, it's turning out interesting. Spiral lifter. You don't need the foam to be particularly an insulator, in order to use it as a structural element at either end, it just can't go between the elements as far as I can see, although some of it might. I suspect that we will find that one electrode can be nano-thin, which will aid "lightness" no end, but may involve some fractal shaping in order to get the charge distributions right. BUt for now, it;s down to different materials, different geometries, and different electronics all pushing and co-ordinated in the right direction.  By producing figures you can easily see the direction. I suspect that a porper ufo drive needs to achive a potential difference across it's elements of 10's of millions of volts, which we cannot do. But a working model to play with, yes that we should manage within a few thousand man hours of effort. MAYBE a lot less, depending on luck/inspiration and teh mathematics off collaboration.

Fruitbat!
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on October 18, 2012, 07:33:09 am
Hmmm, a flying tank circuit?
8)
Le
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Fruitbat on October 18, 2012, 07:40:43 am
Hmmm, a flying tank circuit?
8)
Le

Energised by RF and careful antenna design, just like in independence day.... Thought of that but self contained is the way to go, if you want a miliion people to jump on the bandwagon, and cement the technology into the public conciousness... OOPS Did I say that out loud?

More to the point, self contained is just more fun.

FB!

;)
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: PLAYSWITHMACHINES on October 19, 2012, 03:06:16 pm
Fruitbat makes sense :)

A co-ordinated effort, materials, circuits etc.
No arguments, & a possible toy for pegasus...it would certainly 'generate' a lot of interest ::)
Count me in ;D

'Flying tank circuit' Dave?
I would rather have a flying Tank..... 8)
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on October 19, 2012, 07:38:52 pm
Fruitbat makes sense :)

A co-ordinated effort, materials, circuits etc.
No arguments, & a possible toy for pegasus...it would certainly 'generate' a lot of interest ::)
Count me in ;D

'Flying tank circuit' Dave?
I would rather have a flying Tank..... 8)

Ok Luke, but can it have a Tesla death ray for armament?

Le
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Fruitbat on October 19, 2012, 08:12:42 pm
IF you can make one, yes.
(when you do, please share, I want one for my car, and motorcycle.)

FB!
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: deuem on October 20, 2012, 02:29:56 am
My guy was telling me that a portable unit with the latest tech for ( 40Kv @0.375ma )15W should weigh in at 300 to 400 grams.
 
How does this fit the bill ?
 
How fat was that mouse?
 
This would only supply one stream of power, i was looking for 4 controllable streams. I ddid/do not want just on/off of the 40Kv but to have 3 of the circuits variable in power so I could use them for flight control. 5 total would be best but 4 would work. Looking for no moving parts, all done by electronics. Although it could all run off of the same battery, The weight would add for more coils depending if we needed 40K to stear by or could do it with less. 20Kv or less would mean 3 smaller control circuits.
 
Thinking coils to caps to caps.
 
Deuem
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Fruitbat on October 20, 2012, 08:16:07 am
My guy was telling me that a portable unit with the latest tech for ( 40Kv @0.375ma )15W should weigh in at 300 to 400 grams.
 
How does this fit the bill ?
 
How fat was that mouse?
 
This would only supply one stream of power, i was looking for 4 controllable streams. I did/do not want just on/off of the 40Kv but to have 3 of the circuits variable in power so I could use them for flight control. 5 total would be best but 4 would work. Looking for no moving parts, all done by electronics. Although it could all run off of the same battery, The weight would add for more coils depending if we needed 40K to stear by or could do it with less. 20Kv or less would mean 3 smaller control circuits.
 
Thinking coils to caps to caps.

Deuem

OK, I can get behind helping with that Duem. First question, how accesible to others is this PSU you have?
Assuming it is, and by accesible I mean affordable as well as physically obtainable, the benchmark lightweight "Naudin PSU" should weigh (excluding battery) a similar weight if I remember correctly...
Scaling up their "orville" achivement to the point where it woudl self lift IS clearly possible, BUT it will be too huge and fragile to demonstrate easily, or fun to play with....

I think you are thinking of using model helicopter/quadrocopter technolgy when you are thinking about the control issues. I am thinking that we could use a big brushless ESC to activate three lighter weight flybacks, bung a transistor across each output to allow variablilty of power to each of the, three ht sources, and you could use a tricopter control system to fly it. The problem is in the surface area to thrust part of the deal, that's literally where our supper lifter will fold, if we don't advance the technology there. So what practical time I get goes in that area at the moment.

However I need to build a new PSU soon, and I'll take what progress you have and try and add to it when I do. The big problem with DIY is the flybacks. You can't make them easily. IF your guy has a solution that is just as mass efficeint but easier to reliably source the parts, then I am all ears!!

It fills me with joy inside every time one of you has a new idea or advances soemoen else idea.

Please keep it coming, we really do have something interesting and fun gaing on here...

FB!
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: PLAYSWITHMACHINES on October 20, 2012, 10:57:24 am
400 grams? That's pretty good for a 40kv supply.

I have recently aquired an old 19" monitor circuit board, it has a small flyback which kicks out 25-30Kv (or at least it did before i killed the tranny ::) )
The trick would be to use a fairly low voltage to run it, i'm thinking 9v or less, so the primary will have to be re-wound.
Here we have a small problem, since i'm inclined to use a fairly massive coil, to test the Newman/Tesla concept of mass being more important than current, but too big a coil will just be extra weight...Hmm

Another aspect is whether to use DC or pulsed DC on the lifter.

I'm thinking the flyback will run best at it's design frequency, i.e. 640 lines x 70 hertz gives 44.8 KHz, well within the reach of a 555. This is strong enough to drive an SMD mosfet for example.

Also, most components are available in SMD format, but development kits are a bit pricey. I might just invest in one anyway, since i have lots of 'miniturization' projects in the pipeline. It might be better to glue them onto a thin acetate sheet & connect them with tiny wires & blobs of solder....

More coffee!
(Yaa i fixed the espresso machine, it was the cap feeding the 240v to the step-down resistor)
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: robomont on October 20, 2012, 07:48:01 pm
your talking about four ps.
is there a way to just put variable resistors on each control module.instead of powering one up.power three down.
or reverse the current on a mode,or two or three.maybe polarity switches.im just tired and thinkin off the top of my head.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring / RFC FB1a
Post by: Fruitbat on October 20, 2012, 09:54:54 pm
PM. Don't sweat the 40 volts most flybacks seem to need, although there must be a low cost flyback from a 12v coulour tv out there some where. You will need a battery any way for self lifting, and the current state of the art is lithium ion batteries. I can steer you to a dirt cheap light weight solution in increments of 3.7 volts a go. The battery I have in my hand weight 27.5 grammes, gives between 10 adn 11.1 useable volts at 350MA for an hour. Amps can be drawn if neccesary fro shorter flight times. so five of them is 150 grammes, leaving 450 grammes for the actual PCB, power transistor and transformer.


EVERYONE:

Sticking to the naudin circuit makes it dead accesible, for anyone who has done the basic playing that most people need to "prove the concept". That was of maximum importance for me as a newb, I needed to get it working as quickly and cheaply as possible.

Untill I (or someone else) has actually solved the problem of size/efficiency of the lifting body, then doing the final PSU design is a bit difficult, but we should try and get the weight down, the power up, the efficiency greater, and look towards provision of higher voltages if nessesary. There must be a better way, or a smaller and lighter flyback...

Now I did do a table of voltages, and found that I got more lift as the voltage went up, but I mislaid the table before I got around to seeing how the input power correlated with the grammes of lift figures.
When I do that again, I intend to feed the mighty bu208 (I got 5, have yet to kill one) from the (possibly sacrificial) function generator, so as I can investigate the most efficent waveform to voltage configuration.
ALL these measurements will be done using a carefully built standard lifter, so if I fid anything useful you can do it by only changing the PS a bit.

SIMILARLY: when I test different lifter configs, I'll be using the standard naudin PS so if I do anything useful you already have the PSU needed to dulicate it.

Also, there is a principle in aviation, that you either develop the engine, OR the airframe, never both simultaneously, which seems to be relevant to this endeavour.

May I cautiously suggest that a basic entry requirement for participation in the Pegasus Research Consortium "space shot", be successful completion and operation of a basic naudin triangle lifter and it's PS?

To be fair, I'll have to do work and spend money also, in order to comply with the requirement! My lifter is the wrong dimensions, and my PS does not make enough voltage to comply with the standard. Naudin set the standard, he lit the torch, it seems fitting to use his design as our common starting and reference point.

If any one sees that I am either going too far, or in the wrong direction with my effort here to get a "commonality of the basics" and framework in place so that we can mutually derive the maximum benefit from each others work, please speak out, otherwise I'll just keep it up until "we or me" gets the job done...

Pegasus into space! Yay!

ROBOMONT, making a "variable resistor" at this voltage will pose a bit of a challenge, but should be doable. However, IF we can get electronic control over several different areas of HT, we might gain a lot in efficiency, rather rather than dissipating the energy we need to lose in a VR, we simply don't make so much by altering the drive.

IF I can find a viable 3 coil solution, the control and energising electronics could literally be bought from hobby king, making the project potentially viral... as soon as we find the optimum "aerofoil" or as I like to call my lifter, "electro-inertial transductance unit".

We CAN do this, I am sure. the only hard bit to find (and only bit that has failed so far) was the LOPT transformer that naudin specified. We either need a homebrew design, or one that is so common it can be got all over the world, but if that proves to be a stumbling block and anyone can afford it, I can mail them out...

Is there likely to be a new fangled car, motorbike, generator, etc coil that will do the job? IS a flyback teh most efficient way of getting our voltage?

We DEFINTELY need more data before we can work out the final design...
And I really think practical contributors, developers ought to start from the same place.
IF it ends up going that way, which rather means you either find the naudin style flybacks, in your local country or we send a few over from europe, then it would not be an impossibilty to have a PCB laid up quite near to me at a reasonable cost, with either PCB's available by letter post from the maker. It is something me and tthem discussed a year or so back..

FB!
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: deuem on October 21, 2012, 02:03:13 am
Fruitbat,
 
The PS I am talking about would be on a PC board. It would be instructed by a chip. I was designing 5 circuits to be on at 100% at lift and 4 circuits to be the cflight control circuits. Flight control to be made by lowering the force give to on or two sections so it would turn. Turn finished, they all power up to 100% and remain in hover. The 5 flight circuit might be very small and not at 40K but much lower, like 20K. What ever is needed to steer it.
 
We were going to use the new 2 axis electronic gyros for hover control. About the size of a penny. This would release power from one of the 4 areas on the opposite side and balance the unit. When you take joystick in hand, it by-passes the gyros and gives you full control again.  I have a quad heli on my desk right now. They are using all four blades as control surfaces. If we used that idea then a minimum of 3, 40K supplies are needed and the weight goes up. But, if one PS can lift one set up, then by adding three together would/should work ok.
 
I will have to ask if I can get them to give me a print of the idea. This PS might be something most of you electronics guys could solder together. If not it would normaly go through a pick and place then wave solder machine. Then there is the question of rights. I don't know if they will release it or not without some paperwork trail. That is 50/50 right now. The only reason they did not make it now is because they got real busy with a new product that pays. So I might have to wait till that engineering is finished.
 
In the meantime, control jets or switching of power is the key as I see it. How to power down 40K or 20K without more coils seems tough. It should be easy to lower the frequency of the main coils by altering the low voltage end using the control chip.
 
Deuem
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: PLAYSWITHMACHINES on October 22, 2012, 02:39:05 pm
Robo: It IS a good idea, to switch the output using servo's.
It was good enough for Searl, that's how he controlled the 'control surfaces' as he called them, on his IGV's
(it's all in the searl section in 'inventors'-if you are fortunate to have access to it-;)

A good analysis, Steve.
Going on that rough draft, i can say we can build a fairly hefty supply !
Li-ion cells are a brilliant idea, i have a few here (small ones). Lithium is very light

Quote
Untill I (or someone else) has actually solved the problem of size/efficiency of the lifting body, then doing the final PSU design is a bit difficult,
We're working on it ;)

Quote
but we should try and get the weight down, the power up, the efficiency greater, and look towards provision of higher voltages if nessesary. There must be a better way, or a smaller and lighter flyback...

I agree, don't think we need to go above 40kv, so it's just a question of milliamps.

We need first to determine the mA/surface area ratio for the standard model, say an 8-10" triangle, foil about 1" (25mm) high?

I would like to compare that with other shapes, like spirals, etc.

Once we have the mA to area ratio, we know how big to make the lifter, given the max output of the supply for 1 hour.

Quote
the mighty bu208

My god man, you live in a museum or what?
I've got a few here, somewhere....I'll try them out ;)

Quote
ALL these measurements will be done using a carefully built standard lifter, so if I fid anything useful you can do it by only changing the PS a bit.

Agreed! Can we have the exact dimensions?
I guess you've all read Naudin's results on different foil height, height of wire etc, but we need the 'standard model' to begin with.

Quote
SIMILARLY: when I test different lifter configs, I'll be using the standard naudin PS so if I do anything useful you already have the PSU needed to dulicate it.
Likewise, easier for me, too :)

Quote
May I cautiously suggest that a basic entry requirement for participation in the Pegasus Research Consortium "space shot", be successful completion and operation of a basic naudin triangle lifter and it's PS?

Well, if i drop everything, and maybe stop working overtime in my day job, i could have 7 of them ready by Thursday :P
I think one will suffice.......
Quote
If any one sees that I am either going too far, or in the wrong direction with my effort here to get a "commonality of the basics" and framework in place so that we can mutually derive the maximum benefit from each others work, please speak out, otherwise I'll just keep it up until "we or me" gets the job done...

Dude, that's the whole reason why i set up the 'inventors forum' on the Toob all those years ago, it's the reason i moved it all here, where the brains are :P and it's why i sleep 5 hours max.
It's my life's work, to get some of these machines built.
But more importantly, to share this with others, as they share with me. I've learned a lot since i got here.
I've also been given a mental kick in the butt and my output in terms of actually building stuff has increased dramatically.


Just when i thought i needed a small lathe, i got one from my brother (bless him) he's a genius.

Quote
IF I can find a viable 3 coil solution, the control and energising electronics could literally be bought from hobby king, making the project potentially viral... as soon as we find the optimum "aerofoil" or as I like to call my lifter, "electro-inertial transductance unit".

Like the name!
By 3 coil i presume the primary, secondary, & feedback coil to run the oscillator?
This would be a 1 or 2 power tranny circuit?
Quote
Is there likely to be a new fangled car, motorbike, generator, etc coil that will do the job? IS a flyback teh most efficient way of getting our voltage?

I'm thinking maybe a mini tesla coil, with an air core. That way you lose all that heavy ferrite.
But for now we should stick with the TV/PC monitor flybacks, they are pretty compact.

Tip for inventors: the bigger the tube, the higher the voltage it needs, so if you see a BIG monitor being thrown away, grab it & run like hell....

Quote
We DEFINTELY need more data before we can work out the final design...
And I really think practical contributors, developers ought to start from the same place.

Yes, and Yes.

I had an idea ages ago to make a flyback in a pot-core made of ferrite. In other words, the coil is totally enclosed in a toroid of the stuff, hardly any external field ;) No leakage....
These pot-cores can be ordered ready made as 2 halves, you just wind yer coil, plop it in, glue the top on.
I have a small one here, makes about 3KV, it's about 30mm diameter, 20 high.
Maybe we could chain these up in series & make a super efficient flyback?
Maybe later, i'm off to bed for my +- 5 hours rest.

Deuem: Good work, dude :)
I like the sound of those tiny gyro's...mmmmm!
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: PLAYSWITHMACHINES on October 22, 2012, 02:48:08 pm
Should we rename this the 'Gold triangle' thread?
Sorry Z!
 ;D
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: robomont on October 22, 2012, 05:03:16 pm
ill give you the hv stuff i just pulled out of that projector tv.you just pay the shipping.pm me if any of you want it.i put pics up somewhere in this forum.pwm remembers talking about it i think.
it had a three hv lead setup.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Fruitbat on October 25, 2012, 12:55:32 am

PWM said: "By 3 coil i presume the primary, secondary, & feedback coil to run the oscillator?
This would be a 1 or 2 power tranny circuit?"

The most efficient and inexpensive lightweight self contained electrical power unit I know of so far is that found in your higher grade radio control helicopters. There's a 3 phase delta wound motor driven from a really small and lightweight piece of electronics called the ESC (electronic speed control) this drives three very low impedance coils in the motor at literally tens of amps. with a sequence of pulses to make the motor turn.

It occurred to me that it might be possible to substitute the 3 flyback's  primary coils for the motor windings and end up with a three headed PSU. at a very low cost. By adding a transistor in circuit with each primary, and biasing it from three channels of control to reduce the available power to each coil as needed I figured a control sysem could be implemented at virtually no extra cost in tems of weight or added complexity. I have made the assumption that lighter weight flybacks could be sourced. OF course a if diy solution to sourcing the flybacks becomes available then one could just wind three primary coils, and use the esc as a three phase exciter, which still will make significant savings in terms of size and weight..

I lost a significant sum of money trying to sell r/c helicopters a few years back, but the technogy inside them is quite impressive and very reasonably priced.

And if anyone out there has been thinking about acquiring an r/c helicopter, I can save you a shedload of money. Start with a syma "mosquito" then progress to a nine eagles "solo Pro", and then stop.

Everything else is dead expensive to operate unless you turn out to be really gifted in the flying department. EVERYONE I've seen who bought one of those 450 sized 3d helicopters has destroyed it within seconds of it leaving the ground. With no exceptions.

FB!
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: PLAYSWITHMACHINES on October 25, 2012, 02:22:08 pm
Too much going n for a long reply so:

Robo; I could use those parts, & can pay the shipping, no problrm but i'd rather you kept them & built something, it's easy, we can all help you with it ;)
Tell you what, keep 1 and send the others to me,(email me so we can exchange info),  i can use them to build 'lifter ' supplies...

Fruitbat, old bean;
Quote
There's a 3 phase delta wound motor driven from a really small and lightweight piece of electronics called the ESC (electronic speed control) this drives three very low impedance coils in the motor at literally tens of amps. with a sequence of pulses to make the motor turn.

A miniature 3 phase system?
Cool, i want 10 of them, drivers,motors, gears, anything you've got :)
These are micro versions of the industrial 3-phase stuff, and they can be used for many things.
1 they can run 3-phase motors, which are more efficient than DC or single phase AC, you can't stall em.
2 this system is also used for power transmission (hence all power lines have multiples of 3)
3 They give full control over the motor/transformer, voltage, phase angle, power factor, frequency you name it.
4 they are ideal for driving some of my free energy machines, which use the same industrial setup ;)

The 3 coils i was referring to was Naudin's  simple flyback circuit, which has no chips in it :P which is easier to make for those with little experience in electronics.... ::)

Quote
EVERYONE I've seen who bought one of those 450 sized 3d helicopters has destroyed it within seconds of it leaving the ground. With no exceptions.
No sweat, i reckon some of my lifters will share that fate :P
Some of my experiments lasted several microseconds.........

ETA: It was Tesla (of course) who introduced this polyphase system.
He even built 24-phase systems, today we only use 3.... ::)
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: PLAYSWITHMACHINES on October 25, 2012, 02:41:27 pm
On reflection...this is important so i will stay awhile...
I imagine that Tesla & the Westinghouse engineers must have agreed on a compromise at this point, anyone have any data on that?

In any case it's a good compromise, since a 'stalling' 3-phase motor will still have 60% of it's power, and it's a good compromise for transmission lines etc.
All you have to do is increase the number of POLES in the motor (coils as it were, poles=coils for the less technicaly minded) as long as you do it in multiples of 3.
For the industry, it's a peice of cake also, you just make low RPM high torque motors with 3 sets of coils, medium motors with higher speed with 6 coils etc.
Many of these motors have 12 coils, that's 4 'poles' times 3 'phases' ok?

Now, Tesla knew you could use a thousand 'phases' on a single conductor, even using the ionosphere and get enourmous efficiency in the transmission of power and using the earth itself, either as a ground 'return' line--or for the transmission itself See what i mean?

You only have to think on this for a while to see a whole new maze of possibilities before you :)
That makes me smile, every time :) ;) :D ;D
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Fruitbat on October 25, 2012, 05:08:48 pm
PWM Said: "No sweat, i reckon some of my lifters will share that fate
Some of my experiments lasted several microseconds......... "

MY first lifter caught fire in my G/F's kitchen at 4:30 in the morning. Caught me right by surprise, but I got the power off and blew out the fire very quickly... It was after all only a small fire that consumed one of the uprights that holds the anode. (I am right the anode is the upper wire connected to the + supply and the cathode is the lower plate). I am pleased to report that I managed to repair it, and it serves me still.

POINT OF INTEREST! H.V. Fires burn really quickly when the juice is on. I assume that OZONE is a powerful oxidising agent... Be careful and take proper precautions. I like to have a watcher around just in case my heart needs a restart.

May I chuck out a possible explanation of the lifter effect?
I am told that the earth is charged to 14 million volts DC negative with respect to the surrounding space. I am also told that LIKE charges repel each other.
Can you see where I am going with this?
COULD IT BE SO SIMPLE that a lifter which has a negative charge of 25KV repels the earth which also has a negative charge? YOU might think that since the lower plate is at earth potential it has no charge with respect to the earth Like I have for several months, but when you consider the gold leaf electroscope, you can see that the plates repel each other despite being charged from the same point.... it's a yin and yang thing, the earth is has its surrounding space to match it's charge the negative plate in the lifter has it's positive wire to "refer" to. From the perspective of space, your 25 KV PSU could be replaced by the mother of all huge resistors coming down through the miles of atmosphere and termintaed in a fine strand of copper wire.
IS THIS THE SECRET? Electrostatic repulsion as demonstrated in the gold leaf electroscope?
I couldn't be that simple could it?
This MIGHT also explain why when one inverts 2 lifters with different sized lower plates, 1 lifter pushes downwards and one does not. The relative sizes of the plates would be cruciial for shaping the fields produced, which would affect how different configurations work in different orientations. I can now see how a better "K" factor which I think is a measure of teh insulating properties of a dielectric would allow higher operationg voltages with respect to the earths atmosphere and will be crucial when we get to trying to "lift" ourselves. It's not only raw voltage that makes the effect it's also the shape of the field which by careful geometry should be "intensifiable". The reason a lifter works on it's side has to be not because it is repelling the earth, but because it is shaping the local electrostatic environment.`

Maybe. Any takers?

FB!
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: robomont on October 25, 2012, 06:52:20 pm
25million,very interesting.
i have patents that clearly show the earth negative.
what your saying is what i believe but i never had a relative voltage until now.do you have a reference for that.its not that i dont believe,im just curious.
if it is so then that is the voltage we should be shooting for and falls within my theory of it being in the xray range.

the problem with that voltage is the k factor,the xrays outside the craft and the size of the engine exaust.if one uses a flame jet generator.if someone else has an idea on creating those voltages,please speak up.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on October 25, 2012, 07:07:00 pm
If the Earth is charged at 14 million vdc negative, which electrode of the lifter would it represent? 8)

And where would that other electrode be located?

In the sky somewhere?  :o

How could a circuit be composed which imitates the plasma connection of the upper and lower electrode?

Along some sort of transmission arc, or plasma channel, which was connected through to the ionosphere?

Wouldnt this be called..riding the lightning?

Le
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: robomont on October 25, 2012, 07:29:47 pm
its a voltage gradient.
if earth is negative then the negative cathode is down and shaped like a pie or bowl,top has a ball.

if earth is twentyfive million then the ionosphere is about twentyfive million one hundred thousand.the patent i have says 100000 ditference.
this gradient is what i think can be used to bounce off the planets galaxies and universes.i just didnt have a voltage starting point.

fruitbat i give you praise and gold if you can prove it or reference.it means that much to my personal theory.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Fruitbat on October 26, 2012, 12:28:15 am
I have to go to work now, and when I get back I have a party in my house, which will involve about ten 18 year old females getting somewhat drunk, so I am not sure when I will be able to make a measured reply.  But I think there is one to be made... I do know that when we charge up our lifters bottom plate although it has the same potential as the earth it has a "charge" or potential difference with respect to the top wire.

And I think that the proof lies in the fact that if you make 2 identical lifters with different sized bottom plates, one will lift which ever way it is oriented (Allegedly, I have read this in several places but not yet seen it myself because my first lifter (which only lifts if the voltage and orientation is correct) I inadvertently made to the wrong dimensions, and my second lifter I made differently physically because was trying to reduce the overall mass of the framework).#

I will get back to you robomont, as soon as I can with some better references, but I am of course making this up as I go along, to try and fit all the pre existing and new information that I have. I expect to find out I am wrong, but just cannot yet see it..

Now I need to go and work on some different flying machine technology, as I am helping to make a DC3 serviceable this week...

FB!
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: deuem on October 26, 2012, 03:15:11 am
If the Earth is charged at 14 million vdc negative, which electrode of the lifter would it represent? 8)

And where would that other electrode be located?

In the sky somewhere?  :o

How could a circuit be composed which imitates the plasma connection of the upper and lower electrode?

Along some sort of transmission arc, or plasma channel, which was connected through to the ionosphere?

Wouldnt this be called..riding the lightning?

Le

Hi Littleenki, I got you on the distance here because that makes sence to us. Our cheap lifters would catch on fire and burn up if the distance was to small. Keeping that in mind what if you had material that could manage the 14 million volts all contained in a typical UFO size of 25 feet. Would that then force an outside arc. We see these arcs or colors all the time. Just maybe this 14 million volt arc is doing the color dance we see?
 
Even Bob Lazar said that the craft he saw had a ring around the top to stop the flow of something. Ok call this the top wire and then the bottom wire is near the groung. Now take another material attached to the hull that the 14 million volts will pass over and we have lift with a lot of arcing. Hum!
 
The more air the more color, In space it should be colorless.
 
Deuem
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: pschrier on October 26, 2012, 03:41:18 am
This thread...is great...Deuem...like a Faraday Limiter...FruitBat...like a...this is a great thread.

All the Best,

Paulie
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on October 26, 2012, 07:01:12 am
Hehehe, cmon boys and girls....theres gold in them thar questions.... 8)

Fruitbat, do you need bailing out of the slammer yet? LOL!

So again, how do we ride the lightning?

Is Chitty Chitty Bang Bang a flying Tesla coil?  :o :o :o

Le
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: PLAYSWITHMACHINES on October 26, 2012, 12:27:42 pm
It's just 2 things, voltage & geometry.

The earth's charge is something for debate, since i find 14Mv quite low, it could be as high as 60Gv :o. Now that would mean there is a steep field gradient that we can use.
Charge has such interesting properties, it is the not-so-static counterpart to the (gyroscopic) magnetic fields.
In fact it can be seen as a dimension in itself.....
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on October 26, 2012, 12:40:35 pm
It's just 2 things, voltage & geometry.

The earth's charge is something for debate, since i find 14Mv quite low, it could be as high as 60Gv :o. Now that would mean there is a steep field gradient that we can use.
Charge has such interesting properties, it is the not-so-static counterpart to the (gyroscopic) magnetic fields.
In fact it can be seen as a dimension in itself.....

Ahhhh, Luke, a breath of fresh air my brother!:D

Its all in the dimensions!

I think we have a new path to discuss soon, perhaps back to the simple 1900's and the original TT Brown apparatus for receiving energy from the cosmic rays..... 8) shades on...brain churning...

Cheers!
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: PLAYSWITHMACHINES on October 26, 2012, 03:19:24 pm
Thanks dude 8) it's just the way i see it, it's all so....connected, on a fundamental level. Pretty stupid of us to have missed it in the first place, really ::) ???
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: robomont on October 26, 2012, 03:22:26 pm
pwm, im listening.
what are your references or theories on these m and g voltages?
why are playing with theories currently in the thousands if there is consenses forming in that the voltage range should be higher.

my personal reference is an old physics book that has a graph with voltages ,frequencies and forms of energy.
ie.microwave,xrays,vhf ,etc.

this combined with blackholes expelling xrays and gamma rays is why i believe the minumum dcv has to be that high.
since xrays are not effected by gravity is what kinda seals it for me.
im looking for more conformation through references and theories.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: PLAYSWITHMACHINES on October 26, 2012, 03:43:02 pm
Never seen my YooToob video's?
[youtube]9lyEwaO0u98[/youtube]

Hope you like Techno ;)

[youtube]jZ5OzjwqmRc[/youtube]

And one of T.T.Brown's gravity experiments i reproduced...

[youtube]8qbE04FsvnI[/youtube]

Enjoy!
Sorry, i have 2 go, later!
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Fruitbat on October 29, 2012, 04:03:35 pm
Good news everyone! (especially me!!) Some guys in a U.S. university have already done our first tranche of testing and produced some preliminary figures from a combinaton of a standard naudin lifter and a cylindircal lower electrode lifter.
http://electrostatics.org/images/ESA2012_S10.pdf
This is what I should have done by now.
This has to save us some time, and as soon as WE have somethng to show them I vote we invite them here.
May I ask;
How many of you readers are actually considering making (or have available) a basic lifter setup? and of those how many of you would like to collaborate on an active project to develop a self lifting lifter?
FB!
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: robomont on October 29, 2012, 04:35:07 pm
i would colaberate but too lazy for anything more.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Fruitbat on October 30, 2012, 01:37:43 am
i would colaberate but too lazy for anything more.

Stick around anyway, because I value the sort of mind that can both spot the significance of xrays being unaffected by gravity, and also admit that the main impediment to the work is now personal laziness, and not "suppression" or lack of resources, or knowledge.

The one thing I have noticed about the people who generally get to run things is that their overall undesirable qualities (like psycopathy) is often leavened with an increased abilty to either work hard tehmselevs or get others to do that work for them. In order to redress the balance us well meaning but lazy people need to get organised and pool our labour freely, (I figure ten lazy people working in concert should still out-perform 1 hard working psychopath, and we definitely outnumber them by a larger ratio.) So even , if it's only insights and ideas, give what you can and we will get there...

I'm lazy and the only reason I do any of the work at all is because I'm REALLY interested in the research, and it's a lot of fun.

As for your comment about why do we use such realtively low voltages, it's for two reasons. Mainly because it's difficult and expensive to produce much higher voltages, (or measure it!) and also (in my case) because I am short of space to work, and increasing the voltage to the point where it would be easy to get more power of lift would increase the hazards unacceptably...

FB!
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: robomont on October 30, 2012, 09:28:10 am
as we know xrays are expelled from a blackhole,we need to find the lowest xrays that are expelled.are they soft xrays or hard xrays.once we learn exactly then we will know the voltage minumum needed.
it could be in the high thousands or low millions.
i may be mistaken but i believe the first xrays were created with fifty thousand volts.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: robomont on October 30, 2012, 06:29:58 pm
after further study,maximum voltage should be no more than 100 to 120 kvdc.this is the range of hard xrays.
the only references i could find on blackholes just said high energy xrays so im assuming hard xrays.
the next focus should be on the current level.
my thought is it should relate directly to horsepower.if my math is correct then the current should be almost nothing for a small lifter.
the spacing between anode and cathode needs to be generous for that voltage though.
lotsa hard xrays also so give it some distance.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on October 30, 2012, 08:15:23 pm
You guys might want to check Zorgon's thread about the B-2 bomber, and its wing design..its so far ahead of us we might as well be building a reed boat to cross the Atlantic.

Le
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: robomont on October 30, 2012, 09:50:07 pm
where is that b2 thread.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Fruitbat on October 31, 2012, 02:51:26 am

Well, in that case LE we may as well stop working ourselves and wait until they share the benefits of the technology we financed  with us civilians, like they always do.

Of course, we do KNOW that the B2 uses a fully developed embodiment of the effect that we have been looking at don't we? It's not just a bunch of unsubstantiated rumours on the internet, with no hard evidence to back it up is it? And we know that this technology will be openly shared so that we can develop variants for purposes other than blowing people up don't we...?

Meanwhile in the real world, it's just us little people, trying to work it out for ourselves for (in most cases) the general good, or even simply for the fun of it.

Has anyone read that university paper? (it came from someone on Linda Brown's forum, btw) Any thoughts on where we should take the research?

Cheers, Steve C.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Fruitbat on October 31, 2012, 03:13:52 am
For those who'd like to actually develop a self contained flying machine along these lines I'm going to ask if I can have a thread of my own to administer, where I can change the colour of parts of all postings. it should then be much easier to skim though a large number of entries to get to the relavent bits.

In the mean time one of our contributors has raised the question of control. IF we consider a triangular lifter, control could easily be accomplished (assuming we have a little spare weight carrying ability after we make it self lift) by using servos to either tilt the bottom elements, or raise the top wires either action will reduce the lifting power on the selected side, giving us fine control with no nasty HV electronics to make.

The main problem before us is to find out how to LIFT more mass. We solve this guys, and it's all gravy afterwards.

Does anyone want any practical help including supply of crucial parts to get a basic lifter setup going? I'm about to phone a local outfit to see if they'd like to collaborate on making a kit...

Cheers, FB!
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: deuem on October 31, 2012, 09:21:05 am
The less fields the less control IMHO. I think a triangle is very unstable. I might be wrong! I would like to see at least 5 groups. 1 Main power and 4 controls. I did want to see this being done with no moving parts. If possible. If servos were used then you add weight again. A method of changing the 9volt should be looked at but only usinf a smaller high end voltage, hence less coils and caps. Maybe we could just fire one of the four when needed. Or shut if off whan needed.
 
I was thinking of using thes extra 4 surfaces all the time for lift and then slowing one or 2 down for correction. In hover the master gyro would take over control of these 4 and balance the unit out. So in a way this would have to fly with the master on and at least 2 or 3 of the secondaries at 100% while the other 1 or 2 are off or down. This would steer the craft.
 
Think of the guy that did the plastic cups. Make a circle in the center with 4 cups at 90 degrees and go from there. That is kind of the basic idea.
 
Deuem
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Fruitbat on October 31, 2012, 11:49:29 am
Duem, I like your attitude! Elegant would be nice.
control options as I see it are 1, electrical 2, Mechanical.

What ever we do, we need to do it quickly before we all lose interest.

ON the table is:
The basic lifter, good to learn not a good combination of size and fragilty. But about 240 of them strapped together will lift 1/10't the weight of a practcial PSU.

I think we all agree the first thing is to make it self lift, yes?

To do this we simply need to get 10x as much lift out of the same or less (preferably) size of craft.

This I think we can do. NOW, common sense dictates that we will need a control system. Until we prove otherwise I vote for a simple 6 channel 35Mhz or 2.4 Ghz r/c system, and we use as much off teh shelf tech as we can. IF I AM RIGHT and we CAN design or find suitable coils, we can practically buy it all off the shelf, but first we need to know what voltage, at what power, though what arrangement of electrodes, is GOING TO DO THE JOB. To be honest, we need someoen to build PWM's spiral lifter, adn we need a whole load of other stff doing until we get the extra power that we need.

Please don't put the cart before the horse, we need to get "MORE POWER, IGOR"! before we worry about how best to control it. But my guess is that at 10 grams for a really quite good servo, the mechanical approach wil not be entirely without merit, BUT  don;t care, just want to see that first self powered lifter take off (whether we do it or not), but soon.

Because in case no one has noticed, the theoretical fuel burn versus payload, wil make this the absolutely cheapest and safest possible way into near earth orbit... All we need to do is prove the concept.

Cheers, FB!
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: robomont on October 31, 2012, 01:26:32 pm
how about 100,000vdc taser or stun gun guts for ps.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: deuem on November 02, 2012, 09:49:01 pm
To All, Lifters do not always need to be used to lift!
 
Ok, The forse can push also, say a train with the lifter in the rear. Say a car in a tunnel. say a blimp. So there are other applications that do not need it to lift its own weight, just push.
 
On the lifter, I agree if it can't lift by its self it is worthless for now.
 
Fruitbat, We all agree on the final idea. And maybe we can lift a PS but with out the flight control systems it would be again worthless. I think we all need to agree and understand how to control the craft. They make all the R/C servos and controls here, so that cost is nothing.
 
I think if we can get a group choice on the flight control systems, then we would know what PS we would need. If this is done, I will then ask the electrical guys to design a light weight PS board. This one board would have all of the coils, caps, gyros, battery and R/C chip in one package. They could even make the boards, P&P and wave them. But I don't want to go back to them many times with changes. So it has to be figured out first.
 
Deuem
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: rose on November 03, 2012, 10:30:01 am
To All, Lifters do not always need to be used to lift!
 
Ok, The forse can push also, say a train with the lifter in the rear. Say a car in a tunnel. say a blimp. So there are other applications that do not need it to lift its own weight, just push.
 

Right you are, Deuem:

Quote
Inertial propulsion device to move an object up and down
HE Fiala, JE Fiala, JA Fiala - US Patent 8,066,226, 2011 - Google Patents

(10) Patent No.: US 8,066,226 B2 (45) Date of Patent: Nov. 29, 2011 (56) References Cited
US PATENT DOCUMENTS 3,555,915 A * 1/1971 Young, Jr. .... ...

Device to move an object back and forth

HE Fiala, JE Fiala, JA Fiala - US Patent 7,900,874, 2011 -
... As an example of an electrostatic antigravity device, various Biefeld-Brown effect devices were
men- tioned, including Lifters, and Asymmetrical ... Alex Jones' first patent application was in German
and was titled, "Vor- triebsvorrichtung" (Forward Thrust Device6), Patent #23 41 65 ...

As to lifter configuration, I posted this abstract  from Siswanto and Ngui elsewhere, and you may have seen it, but in the interest of trans-pollination of ideas, the gist of it is:

"Three different configurations (triangular, square and improved square) of ionic lifters are developed to observe the performance of the lifters characterized by its potential energy, air flow velocity, lifting height and the generated force. The results show that the downward air flow velocity of the square model is higher than the triangular model....."

http://www.ajbasweb.com/ajbas/2011/September-2011/1433-1438.pdf

Happy liftering,
rose
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: deuem on November 05, 2012, 01:56:54 am
Yes, I can imagine one of our members building an HO train track and placing an lifter drive at the rear of a flat car with the RC controls on the flat bed being supported by the trains wheels. See how fast it can go. With a train you only need speed control and maybe brakes.
 
Deuem
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on November 05, 2012, 06:11:34 am
Nice post, Rose..  :)

From experience, I have found a torus shaped lifter to be very effective and easy to build, as well as structurally sound.

Balsa doesnt bend well, so use gap filling foam available at Lowes for the frame, wrapped in thin al foil. Make it about 10 inches in diameter and the foam should be cut into a thin flat strip from the round stock...as light and thin as possible.

Then use a 34 ga wire run around the circumferemnce attached to uprights made of the very same foam cut into strips.

Suspend the wire above the base 1mm for every kvdc used.

This apparatus not only will lift with ease, it makes a great ionic breeze fan when stood on end and taped to a bench...or yes..even a train car on an HO railway.

Oh..and it looks like a Stargate, too!

Le
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: zorgon on November 05, 2012, 10:40:43 am
This apparatus not only will lift with ease, it makes a great ionic breeze fan when stood on end and taped to a bench...or yes..even a train car on an HO railway.

Well there ya go, a practical application of BB Effect.. an ionic breeze fan :D  No more crap hitting the rotating blades :D


Quote
Oh..and it looks like a Stargate, too!

Pics or it ain't so :P
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: zorgon on November 05, 2012, 10:42:38 am
Yes, I can imagine one of our members building an HO train track and placing an lifter drive at the rear of a flat car with the RC controls on the flat bed being supported by the trains wheels. See how fast it can go. With a train you only need speed control and maybe brakes.

How big would a lifter need to be to noticeably provide trust for a locomotive that weighs several tons?
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on November 05, 2012, 01:15:14 pm
Well there ya go, a practical application of BB Effect.. an ionic breeze fan :D  No more crap hitting the rotating blades :D


Pics or it ain't so :P

OK..here tis...she flies quite grandly with 20kvdc..perhaps Ill share the flight video when I make another flight..If ya'll are nice :D

(http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q557/David_Goshorn/roundlifter001_zpsdf2384c6.jpg)

Le
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on November 05, 2012, 01:17:27 pm
How big would a lifter need to be to noticeably provide trust for a locomotive that weighs several tons?

Ways?  :P  I Thrust you spelled it wrong?  :P

over dare it tis!
:D
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: robomont on November 05, 2012, 02:07:49 pm
in theory,the same amount as train engine.
the problem is it would probably short to ground if mounted to close to tracks or ground.

any of yall like my stun gun guts theory or am i off somewhere on my figures?

the word is weighs.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Fruitbat on November 06, 2012, 10:03:19 am

I for one DID like the stun gun theory, although in practice they are going to be "hard to get" over here..

Cheers, FB
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: robomont on November 06, 2012, 11:27:17 am
oh didnt think of that.i wonder if the company sells just the guts,then it would be legal.
im sure they have got real lightweight stuff in it.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: zorgon on November 06, 2012, 01:55:46 pm
I Thrust you spelled it wrong?  :P

Fonetic spelling :P  Seems it worked as you understood :D

English  Bah Humbug :D
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on November 06, 2012, 03:02:43 pm
Fonetic spelling :P  Seems it worked as you understood :D

English  Bah Humbug :D

I agree, lets switch to Deutsche!

Chus!

;)
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: deuem on November 07, 2012, 01:35:04 am
How big would a lifter need to be to noticeably provide trust for a locomotive that weighs several tons?

You would not use a locomotive. You would just push with the lifter. Forget heavy cargo, just see if someone can get a flatbed to move on its own. Sort of like putting a jet engine on the caboose........
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: PLAYSWITHMACHINES on November 13, 2012, 04:55:42 pm
After frying a few (rare) flybacks, i found a better solution, using circuits from flatbed scanners, & trashing a lot of microwave ovens, i give you:

The Peggy ultralite 30Kv supply!
Full details tomorrow (if my job doesn't get in the way :P )
Title: Re: The Gold Triangle, er, Ring
Post by: PLAYSWITHMACHINES on November 14, 2012, 12:28:01 pm
I had a rather frustrating time when i fried a TV flyback transformer, so i decided to look for an alternative.

Since we are looking for a lightweight HT lifter supply, i thought i'd have a go.......

So here is the 'peggy' ultralight 30Kv supply!

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/inventors_group/images/GWpics/53s.JPG)

These are two circuit boards from a flatbed scanner, they power the tiny lamp that moves over the paper.
They give about 3Kv each, in their original set-up.

I copied the circuit diagram for you. It's dead simple, just 2 transistors, a few caps & resistors...
Tip for inventors: You can do this directly with big trannies like 3055's all you need to do is drop the base bias resistor to about 300-500 ohms...(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/inventors_group/images/GWpics/54s.JPG)

I placed tiny foil heatsinks on the transistors, coz i'm gonna run them at full power & they are gonna sweat :)
Here you can see how small these circuits are:

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/inventors_group/images/GWpics/55s.JPG)


So i've got 2 of them running in antiphase, each with it's own Cockroft-Walton multiplier for the + and - outputs.
Good for about 30Kv and some good current there as well.....

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/inventors_group/images/GWpics/62s.JPG)

Here are the current & voltage meters:

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/inventors_group/images/GWpics/63s.JPG)

9V at 930mA is about 8.5 Watts!
(this is on full load during a discharge, without a spark it sits around 350mA, just over 3 watts)


So now that's done, i thought about building a 'standard model' lifter to try it on.
With long wires, because this lifter won't lift this supply, but a bigger one will ;)

I've used plastic straws with a 'bendy bit' in them, i used the bends to make nice rounded corners for my lifter :P

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/inventors_group/images/GWpics/64s.JPG)

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/inventors_group/images/GWpics/67s.JPG)

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/inventors_group/images/GWpics/68s.JPG)

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/inventors_group/images/GWpics/69s.JPG)

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/inventors_group/images/GWpics/70s.JPG)

The foil goes around the lower beam, giving it a large radius opposite the wire, trailing to a thin edge.
Rather like an aeroplane wing...

Hopefully there will be a test-flight tomorrow, if i get the time :)
Aeronautically yours,
PWM
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on November 14, 2012, 01:26:46 pm
Bad ass setup there Luke, especially withthe voltage multiplier!
Its gonna fly, I can feel it!
Cheers!
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: PLAYSWITHMACHINES on November 14, 2012, 01:58:43 pm
I'll be happy if it flies before it fries  ::)

Off to bed, & electric dreams...
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on November 14, 2012, 02:28:25 pm
I'll be happy if it flies before it fries  ::)

Off to bed, & electric dreams...
Electric dreams in an electric universe!
At 30 kv my triangular lifter lasted about two minutes before the balsa wood caught fire!
As you are the PWM I know you have a fire extinguisherhandy at all times!

Any idea what frequency your going to pulse it at?
Le
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: PLAYSWITHMACHINES on November 15, 2012, 09:11:57 am
Both circuits freely oscillate at about 65KHz, but all those caps & diodes make it pretty much DC.
I won't know until i put a scope on it (which i'm pretty reluctant to do) maybe i'll use the battery portble scope, as it's fully isolated....
Also got a dirt cheap plastic kitchen scale for 1 euro 8)
Ideal for thrust measurements.
Right now, i have to move the wire down a bit & re-tension it, not easy since it's only 0.1mm thick (2 thousands of an inch) and can break very easily.
Peggy has a short skirt, only 36mm, so the wire distance still has to be found by trial & error.
I'm off for the weekend, so maybe no more experiments till next week.
Later!
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: robomont on November 15, 2012, 09:53:49 am
i would think a wire that thin would vaporize.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Pimander on November 15, 2012, 11:57:23 am
Try not to burn the place down mate.  :o
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on November 15, 2012, 12:03:32 pm
the thinner the better when deciding the top electrode. I use what would amount to one strand of an rca cable center conductor.

It will only vaporize if it arcs heavily.

Aside from that itll last quite a while.

65khz is pretty fast, so yes essentially DC but still a/c in fact. I found the lower the frequency, the better ability to get it off the ground..then increasing the frequency makes it hover quite softly with nearly zero chance of arcing.

I never arced across when using frequencies above 20khz..so 65 khz should be quite safe. Mine wouldnt lift at at anything above 25khz though, so good luck Luke!

Also, lower frequencies can cause arcing at the flyback pins, so using the Peggy will make that a non issue.

Cheers!
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: robomont on November 16, 2012, 10:59:18 am
thanks le ,for the advice.
its nice being around tallented people.
what about using a needle as the top electrode instead of a wire?
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on November 16, 2012, 11:07:07 am
thanks le ,for the advice.
its nice being around tallented people.
what about using a needle as the top electrode instead of a wire?

Anytime brother! :D

not sure how a needle would work, it might create a cone shaped field though...Hmmm.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: robomont on November 16, 2012, 07:18:25 pm
i thought it was dc pulses.
it doesnt go into the negative range ,does it?
wouldnt that reverse the polarity?
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Pimander on November 16, 2012, 07:26:36 pm
i thought it was dc pulses.
it doesnt go into the negative range ,does it?
wouldnt that reverse the polarity?
Pardon?  :o ::)
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: robomont on November 16, 2012, 10:34:58 pm
above,le states the lifter uses ac.
wouldnt ac mean that the lifter was going into the negative field each cycle.this would mean the polarity is reversing each cycle.
whereas dc pulses would keep the polarity the same all the time.

i do have a theory that the right ac frequency could possibly lock an object in space at a certain relative position.
this frequency would be relative to large objects producing gravity .
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on November 17, 2012, 05:20:11 am
above,le states the lifter uses ac.
wouldnt ac mean that the lifter was going into the negative field each cycle.this would mean the polarity is reversing each cycle.
whereas dc pulses would keep the polarity the same all the time.

i do have a theory that the right ac frequency could possibly lock an object in space at a certain relative position.
this frequency would be relative to large objects producing gravity .

Any time you pulse a HVPS it is using a waveform, but that waveform could be adjusted with the right circuitry to resemble pulsed dc..its all about how the input is setup to the ps. It can be a/c or d/c depending on the waveform created by the front end of the ps. its all about chasing negative ions.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Pimander on November 17, 2012, 06:30:24 am
its all about chasing negative ions.
Wouldn't that mean (as I have suggested before) that the effect is not electrogravitic, but something else?
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on November 17, 2012, 08:06:06 am
Wouldn't that mean (as I have suggested before) that the effect is not electrogravitic, but something else?
It is all about charge migration...which can be seen as transdimensional IMO. Of course has anyone ever really defined the term EG sufficiently? 8)
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: robomont on November 17, 2012, 05:49:12 pm
i still think eg is directly related to xrays being expelled from blackholes.maybe the frquency or the voltage.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: starwarp2000 on November 19, 2012, 09:53:33 pm
It is all about charge migration...which can be seen as transdimensional IMO. Of course has anyone ever really defined the term EG sufficiently? 8)

Charge Migration is transdimensional! The Dielectric aspect of Electricity lives in Counter Space.

EG has never been described sufficiently because the two component parts: Electricity and Gravity, don't have sufficiently clear explanations in our current science.
So we can't expect that by combining the two terms together, that we would make it any more clearer  :)
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on November 19, 2012, 10:11:27 pm
Charge Migration is transdimensional! The Dielectric aspect of Electricity lives in Counter Space.

EG has never been described sufficiently because the two component parts: Electricity and Gravity, don't have sufficiently clear explanations in our current science.
So we can't expect that by combining the two terms together, that we would make it any more clearer  :)

Right on, Starwarp!

Gravity is consequential IMO, a reaction of other forces and fields..not a force of it's own.

Travelling densities of electricity, sent from near and far, and that relocation of densities in the aether is the perceived gravity, as the electricity densities push matter towards the implosion of the geometry of the Earth's center. A battle between the implosion and the emittance from that core is the resulting gravity.

So, not only is every bit of the universe connected in a Quantum way, it is part of one big circuit, filled with celestial components which mimic our primitive electronics.

As for electricity, I like to think of it as an always there lifeforce, which all things great and small are consisting of.

Is it the basis of all matter..charge as an aether and everything we consist of?

Perhaps electricity is that ever elusive aether we search for, and the density of matter is just a by product of the density of electricity in the accretion of said matter, which really is just higher densities of the aether itself.

One things for sure, just as energy cant be created or destroyed, so goes electricity, its already there, just waiting to be altered and relocated for whatever use we see fit.

No tiny electrons..just one big electron. The universe.

Does energy define electricity? Or vice versa?

Good brain food, eh Starwarp?

Cheers!

Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: robomont on November 19, 2012, 11:18:03 pm
im willing to hear this out but im not convinced.

the other dimension deal i kinda agree with.
it seems to be happening in the hv regions.
thats why the higgs bosson interest me.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: PLAYSWITHMACHINES on November 22, 2012, 05:08:24 am
Getting pretty deep here, aren't we?

If i could afford a simple explanation it would be:

Charge is dimensionless, it affects matter, but is not part of it.
It can travel faster than light, & has gravitational effects on matter, as well as the usual attraction/repelling action.

I read of an experiment where a LED was connected to 100 feet of wire, & a super fast detector & scope connected to the LED.
When the power was applied to the wire, the LED started to glow BEFORE current started to flow through the wire.

This is what i mean when i talk about electrons being 'pulled along' by the charge, rather than the conventional view that they SUPPLY the charge or carry it, it seems to be that the opposite is true, the charge carries the electrons.

This can be proven (in part) by the 'overunity capacitive circuits' i posted in the Inventor's area.....

Fascinating, no?
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Pimander on November 22, 2012, 07:19:41 am
Charge is dimensionless, it affects matter, but is not part of it.
It can travel faster than light, & has gravitational effects on matter, as well as the usual attraction/repelling action.
Hold on, define charge for me.

Are you defining charge as a force?

I'd suggest that the the structure OR FORM of the electron (or other particle/quanta) effects the ether causing the matter to move or change form (such as in paramagnetic induction).  The ether is the medium and also the facilitator of force in its interaction with form.



I read of an experiment where a LED was connected to 100 feet of wire, & a super fast detector & scope connected to the LED.
When the power was applied to the wire, the LED started to glow BEFORE current started to flow through the wire.
My thinking would be that it would happen in zero time not -ve time.

This is what i mean when i talk about electrons being 'pulled along' by the charge, rather than the conventional view that they SUPPLY the charge or carry it, it seems to be that the opposite is true, the charge carries the electrons.
You mean a force moves the electrons due to their charge?  That isn't exactly a revolutionary idea.  It is electromagnetism.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on November 22, 2012, 08:31:46 am
Pimander, you are the charge, the charge is the aether, and the charge is everything. The sea of all, not a force which is suspended or imbedded in the aether, but the all itself.

Thats the secret to electricity...its more than meets the eye, and less than the mainstream scientists make of it.

No electrons, as electrons would be separate entities, and thats just not possible.

We are waves, part of the same thing which all is consisting of, charge..plasma however dense or light..always in the form of plasma...life itself..electricity.

Electromagnetism is just a form of distortion as when a river makes a sharp bend the waves form frothy foam spikes..still all the same..ALL.

EM is the 90 degree bend in the river, the change in the stable charge of the all which creates distortion..and the magnetism is just another lifeforce which is always a part of the all resulting from that trapped distortion.

Consult the Leedskalnin PMH here.....

Magnetism is a portion of the charge, a wave which repeats upon itself, a ripple in a bowl, decreasing slowly in strength for millions of years as it moves back and forth, but still a result of the charge differentials between plasma states within the ALL. Ringing until it regains its balance with the rest of the all.

Schauberger found magnetism, albeit in fluid vortices...still part of the all.

You Pimander are plasma, charge, electricity, and magnetism all in one, one which is all.

Or as Ive said before..I could be completely wrong..... :P

Enjoy that sandwich my friend! :D

Cheers!
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: robomont on November 23, 2012, 12:08:46 am
i wonder sometimes if these are just different angles or dimensions of the same object.
like twelve blind men describing an elephant.
may be our minds cant handle a subject of so many dimensions.
mine got sore just reading the last few post.
maybe some of it will soak in.
gonna sleep on it.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: PLAYSWITHMACHINES on November 23, 2012, 02:08:26 pm
Charge is, according to conventional science;
Quote
a physical property of matter that causes it to experience a force when near other electrically charged matter.
It has polarity, density & so forth.
That's all very well, but they are describing it as a property of matter and not a type of energy or a dimension, in fact there are many physicists who think it might be inter-dimensional in nature, or even a dimension in itself.

Certainly it affects matter, the 'electric field' being present between two differently charged masses being able to exert a force.
(This very magical 'action at a distance' was abhorred by people like Newton, good for him,but then again his own 2nd law is on shaky ground at the moment)
I tend to agree with Bearden, who says you have mass & charge as 2 separate entities, one capable of existing without the other, it is this very 'massless charge' which we could also regard as being 'aether tension' or 'scalar waves' or 'collapsed waveforms' or 'strings' , depending on which theories you believe in.
i have a lot of evidence that suggests this is indeed the case, and what we call 'electricity' is merely a by-product of the motion of charges, & their effects on mass.
 Hence the analogy of electrons being pulled along by the charge, rather than being it's carrier.
However, if you try to relate the charge carrying capacity of a particle (such as an electron) it appears that said particle is more of a cloud.

This means that it's true surface area may be a million times greater, and therefore also it's charge capacity.

This also means that we would observe all the electro-magnetic events we see today, but for an entirely different reason, and why we can't measure some things (yet), as Bearden maintains, & i agree with him.

This does not mean we have to throw all the physics books away, most laws hold true for both the 'quantum' and the 'aether' framework.
That's what makes it a tricky problem to deal with ;)

Am i defining charge as a force? No, it is more fundamental than that, i think.

Quote
My thinking would be that it would happen in zero time not -ve time.

That's not what i meant, the charge supplied power to light the LED before the electrons got moving, is all.....This is true in ALL electric circuits, only we tend to leave the circuit 'closed' so that electrons start flowing, encountering 'resistance', generating heat, & generally getting in the way, meaning we have to pour at least 4 times as much energy in to maintain the status quo ::)

Think about it, if what we call 'charge' IS inter-dimensional, then yes, it could very well travel through time.
That's why i'm very interested in the so-called 'time forwarding' of electrons that i have heard about, that's why i'm putting clocks both inside & outside the lifter test chamber, with special regard to monitoring the chamber after power has been removed.

Quote
You mean a force moves the electrons due to their charge?  That isn't exactly a revolutionary idea.  It is electromagnetism.
Aah, not exactly what i meant, dear Pim.
It's all about dimensions.
If there is a difference in charge between 2 points, there is said to be an 'electric field' between them, any particles in that field will be drawn to their opposite poles, so electrons will move in one direction, protons (& their companion neutrons, ions thus) will move in the opposite direction.

But what is this 'field' that acts on the particles, at a distance?

Well, it must be the charge, or more accurately, the uneven distribution of it.
The charge acts on (charged) particles, and the force acts on them.
But what if there were no particles present, but still a big difference in charge between 2 points?
Is there a force present?
A field, even?
The very act of measuring this field involves placing mass & charged particles directly in it's path, whereby it acts on them.
Kind of counterproductive......
This is what Bearden means, i think.

During my research on electro-gravitics, it was clear to me that the sudden appearance or removal of charge on a mass has instant & quite remarkable effects.
This is not just 'electro-static' attraction or repulsion, this mass can be displaced, and in more than one dimension, methinks ;)


This is also the big secret behind all the free energy research, since we can learn to use the displacement of charge to displace energy, I.E. generate, or transmit it.
The age of 'electronics' is by no means dead, but all the energy needed to run it will come from systems that do not move electrons around

 The humble yet mysterious Electron has yet to give up all it's secrets, but it is also a big, heavy elephant walking slowly in a field where cheetahs race by at 60MPH ::)

Quote
Electromagnetism is just a form of distortion as when a river makes a sharp bend the waves form frothy foam spikes..still all the same..ALL.

Something like that, i reckon :)

Quote
...like twelve blind men describing an elephant.
Eggzactly!


Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: PLAYSWITHMACHINES on November 30, 2012, 09:15:51 am
Update

My lifter is definitely getting pulses, it vibrates like hell...this is probably because the capacitors are too small, so i will have to wait until i get some bigger ones. Meantime i'm going to put a Leyden jar in there, LOL
Meanwhile, i'm going back to the 'Naudin flyback' circuit, & see if i can't smoth the output to flat DC (not easy at 35kv), maybe a Leyden jar will be the easiest thing to make....

Also, i will need to make a HV non-contact field probe for my scopes. That way i can see if it's getting DC or not.

The temporal anomaly is still there, it seems that the constant presence of a HV, HF field has scrambled the digital clock in that room, it is now a full two hours ahead of the electro-mechanical clock
 ???
Either the quartz oscillator in that clock has been permanently scrambled by the field, or i've moved forward 2 hours in time...

Hey,maybe i just got younger, that's a nice thought..... ::)
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Pimander on November 30, 2012, 09:54:40 am
maybe a Leyden jar will be the easiest thing to make....
The plastic containers pharmacists keep their stock pills in make good Leyden jars if you want to make a large one.  They just throw them out or put them in the recycling so they are normally happy to give them away.  They are better than glass for a lifter as they are lighter.  If you use aluminium foil that is light too.

However, if you need a small one then glass/pyrex capillary tubs might do...
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on November 30, 2012, 10:16:46 am
Thats the conundrum which all of us face when playing with lifters..they need a power supply thats stable, lightweight, and powerful at once, and thats just impossible with current tech.

2 outta 3 is bad in this field..you need all three! Pulse that thing at 16-20khz Luke and itll fly!

As for the temporal effects, since youve mentioned them, and I didnt previously want to be labeled a fruitcake, Ive experienced some odd effect in the shop too. No clocks changing, but a distinct feeling that everything wasnt as it seemed. Its almost like time flies and accelerates at an alarmingly different rate, yet when you go back into the house, everythings back to normal.

Is it nuts to picture a stargate as a giant round lifter, with shielding for people to step through?  :o
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: PLAYSWITHMACHINES on November 30, 2012, 10:33:24 am
Quote
Is it nuts to picture a stargate as a giant round lifter, with shielding for people to step through?

Maybe we should ask Orville the hamster ;)

Try placing various clocks in the vicinity, set them to within a few seconds of each other, & check them after every lifter session.
I have 2 clocks, one is a digital quartz travel alarm type thing, the other is the solenoid-type kitchen clock.
The kitchen clock has remained accurate, losing only a minute or so during the week.
The digital one, as i said, has moved forward by 2 hours.

I haven't reset it yet, i want to see if it continues to gain time, in which case it's just a crappy clock.

Going to put a few more in there, one shielded etc.
We still need that test chamber to be certain, i hope i get the time to make it soon...
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on November 30, 2012, 11:24:40 am
That cold breeze we are feeling from the lifter could very well be flowing aether, not air proper. It could also signify the pulling of time through the lifter towards the other side.

But wouldnt that define it as a time deformation device?, the very stretcher we heard of from Lazar when he describes pulling space towards us and attaching ourselves to a distant spot, then letting it snap back.

Is a lifter a crude time travel device perhaps?

What the he!! is that cold air besides what the mainstreamers want to call ions?
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: PLAYSWITHMACHINES on November 30, 2012, 11:51:53 am
You got me thinking, as always ;D
There seems to be a pattern of sorts, if you take into account Podkletnov's faster-than-light gravity pulses, and T.T. Brown's cosmic ray & gravitor experiments, there definitely seems to be a time-related phenomenon associated with static electricity something we encounter every day, & yet we know almost nothing about it....
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: robomont on November 30, 2012, 12:43:42 pm
pwm,
i disagree with the part of your theory about two charges separated in basically nothingness.
by my theory,there is no such thing as an absolute vacuum.
there will always be a hydrogen atom.
now im only talking about nature.
im sure in a lab under certain conditions that will probably change that rule like maybe if the container is full of electrons.
i believe there is a foundation of higgs that holds everything together.
the higgs is effected by charge and so still no perfect vacuum.
these are just theories of mine and i little if any reference.

my question to you is what happens when the frequency changes?doesnt the voltage change?or does your current/amps change?
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: PLAYSWITHMACHINES on November 30, 2012, 01:14:12 pm
I see your point, but what if that hydrogen atom can only 'carry' 16EV of charge, and there's 160EV present?
Where does that extra energy 'reside'?
Quote
my question to you is what happens when the frequency changes?doesnt the voltage change?or does your current/amps change?

Good questions!
I'm still taking measurements, & i'm still working on a variable frequency HT supply.
Don't worry, i will post my findings when i find them :D

LittleEnki suggests 20khz, so i'll try that first... ::)
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: robomont on November 30, 2012, 01:27:56 pm
as photons in plasma from that one hydrogen atom, maybe.im kinda confused on your discription.

also you can make a homemade gold leaf electroscope to tell you if something is charged.
mount it on a clean pole of fiberglass.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: PLAYSWITHMACHINES on November 30, 2012, 02:20:11 pm
Gold leaf?
The only gold i have is in my phone & this laptop ;D

I thought of making one with kitchen foil, but at these levels the whole room is charged to 1000's of volts in secods, everything gets charged... LOL

Photons are special, a single electron can emit millions of them, they are said to be massless (something i dispute) and therefore the electron remains unchanged, it is merely receiving & transmitting energy.

I still don't see the electron as being a source of anything, more of a carrier.
ETA: i see it like this, the electron recieves energy, be it in several forms. It jumps to a higher orbit.
From there, something makes it fall back to a lower orbit, releasing that energy, usually as photons or electric current.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: robomont on November 30, 2012, 02:53:46 pm
gold leaf from bible book store.
used for putting gold letters on outside of bibles.
not real expensive.
use a cookie tin for scope box then cut hole in center of lid/view hole
cut hole in side of tin for cork or plug,drill hole in cork for metal rod.
mount two gold leaves together on rod.
touch rod to hot.gold leaves spread.
touch to ground.come together.
metal tin charges to surrounding charge and works as farraday for gold leaf.
mount tin on insulated rod.

i advise any newbies to check out a book called homemade lightning by R.A.Ford.
not calling you a newbie.
youve already been through the initiation a few times i would guess including last week.

lots of hv info including generators and ball lightning.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on November 30, 2012, 07:06:04 pm
or.... http://www.amazon.com/American-Educational-Products-Flask-Electroscope/dp/B005QDW3UG/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1354327488&sr=8-2&keywords=electroscope
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Fruitbat on December 01, 2012, 07:35:42 am
Robomont, we're ALL newbies at this subject...

I have the unusual option of coupling and decoupling the negative pole of my Psu form household "ground".

I get quite different figures depending upon whether I do this...

I am (despite my best efforts) having difficulty with repeatabilty of the data obtained, and am p[ursuing that rather prosaic problem before trying much in teh way of different lifters. I also just happened to repair a modern renaiult car which uses 4 "coil packs" I think three of my old ones are OK, and three is the magic number to connect to a threephase 12v r/c esc. or via an amplifiying transistor or to to a frequency generator, so next week (hopefully) I'll get to see how much HT I can get from them, one way or another.

In the meantime, I organised (with some fiddling about) a digital camera to record my HT in KV, my "lift" in grammes, and my lowside current and voltage in one instant, I take a couple of exposures and average out the result if there is excessive "drift". it has made data collection much more efficient and I can run a series of tests really quickly now... I'll try and get a picture up.

Cheers, Fruitbat.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: 1Worldwatcher on December 10, 2012, 01:59:30 pm
I don't know if anyone here has seen or read the the 'UFO Propagation' research PDF's, but has all th the afore mentioned peoples or this technology too be feasible and applicable.
Though I have no way to test such thing's myself, I do believe it is right up our alley of trying too understand the different stages of experiments have gotten us thus far with understanding EG vs. EM vs. G. Just thought i would share.

Quote
Set up within and around the toroid is a reaction known as the Lorentz Force which intrinsically governs how the accumulating charges and magnetic field lines interact with each other  (see figs.4 & 4a). Because of this interaction of forces the electric charges generated by the movement of the fluid inside the insulated structure polarize, and one pole (negative) will situate itself about the top half of the toroid, concentrating mainly inside the top inner edge and inside the top outer edge (see Electrolytic Flow page). The other polarity of electric charge (positive) will concentrate itself inside the sharp-pointed lower inner edge of the toroid (or arced-toroid see note 3a). All three edges, of course, denote the whole of their circumferences (which, for a forty foot diameter toroid, is a large capacity).

Very informative read. Haven't read it all yet, I am "Centralized Vortex" which is something that I have discussed with PWM or brought up as a possible most efficient device for application. I personally thought of this device such a thing as important, but with all thing's told, it may be a amalgam of inner twining of all things considered.

Enjoy the read as I have, very informative for discussion at hand.
http://www.linux-host.org/energy/ufopropagation.htm (http://www.linux-host.org/energy/ufopropagation.htm)

1WW
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: robomont on December 10, 2012, 02:45:34 pm
just in the few paragraphs i read of ufopropagation ,i found two things wrong.
first it should not be a liquid.
it should be dry air or a gas, with dialectric dust in it.
second it talks about sharp edge something something.
no sharp edges.sharp edges are a detriment to building healthy coronal charge.
a good sign of wasted power.
not trying to insult.just helping out.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: PLAYSWITHMACHINES on December 10, 2012, 03:38:56 pm
Hmm, a sharp edge is placing the charge where you want it to be..
The first thing is to see if there's a definite better performance of ac lifters over dc ones, since my lifter was humming, it wasn't quite DC (caps were too small to deliver the current needed) but we should try 2 methods, straight dc against 'alternating' dc as per the TTB notebooks....
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: 1Worldwatcher on December 10, 2012, 03:48:02 pm
Hmm, a sharp edge is placing the charge where you want it to be..
The first thing is to see if there's a definite better performance of ac lifters over dc ones, since my lifter was humming, it wasn't quite DC (caps were too small to deliver the current needed) but we should try 2 methods, straight dc against 'alternating' dc as per the TTB notebooks....

Are speaking of a Mains Power Filter PWM? Though there is stuff I am getting educated on , I did find a researcher who has posted free on line designs and literary explanation with diagrams.

Go Here:
http://www.freewebs.com/acselectronics/mainsfilter.html (http://www.freewebs.com/acselectronics/mainsfilter.html)

May be something of use, meets your criteria you were looking for as mentioned before over Caps and Load.

1WW
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: robomont on December 10, 2012, 04:00:17 pm
no sharp edges.
thats another reason you dont touch the stealth craft .
even a little dust scratch is bad.
thats why i think gold was best because of no sharp edges.
the sharp points are leakage.
your trying to build charge across a radius.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: zorgon on December 10, 2012, 04:09:35 pm
Nah not gold...  nano microspheres applied by molecular bonding and activated by HAARP :D

Okay so know you know I will have to have them shoot you :D

Now riddle me this... since these nano microspheres where manufactured in space... and this was BEFORE the ISS was flying... where did they manufacture these nano microspheres?

Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: PLAYSWITHMACHINES on December 10, 2012, 04:13:49 pm
Remember that blood-rain scare?
That was nanospheres of silicon-based fungus that thrived in the upper atmosphere & one day rained down on a town in India......
Just my 2 cents  8)
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: robomont on December 10, 2012, 05:14:04 pm
the nanospheres were not created in space.
carbon buckyballs can be created by sparking two graphite rods.
givin enough time in a stone polisher with some diamond grit i would guess just about anything could be brought down to nanosize.

us cheapskates use gold leaf.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: robomont on December 10, 2012, 11:13:10 pm
im not tryin to pull folks away but i have no way to grab the info and post here.
its called ovaltech.ca
get on the home page and click on extras.
then click on electrogravitics.

this guy has a pile of some stuff i havent seen before and it has the math to back it up.
graphs ,curves.
very interesting stuff about grabbing ions at certain speeds and not above a certain voltage.
so far what ive seen,this is some real solid stuff.
could move our threads a long ways toward our final achievements.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: 1Worldwatcher on December 11, 2012, 10:46:41 am
Howdy robomont,
Thanks for the heads up on that URL I have found what you were talking about and will post it for you here for direct link:

http://www.ovaltech.ca/electrogravity.html (http://www.ovaltech.ca/electrogravity.html)

Really supports a lot what TTB has brought forth with a bit of a twist for explanation. I see that it does support your ideology of the Solenoid firing apparatus, so, trying to confine energy with out ionized waste is rather revolutionary in concept, the only thing is that we need too get some ideas of how to control both for controlling and stabilizing ion wasted materials.
Very interesting, much higher pay grade than what I am for this research, sure LE, Z or PWM will chime in on this website, but it was very educational with a lot of great direct links for PDF of TTB as well.
Thanks for sharing.
And by the way, double check that link provided robo. Make sure I got the right one you were discussing. ;)

1Worldwatcher
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: robomont on December 11, 2012, 02:34:31 pm
yes ,plus some other stuff on there that i havent had a chance to read.
stumbled upon him .
canadian fellow is all i know.
he pointed me to a study of the caduceus setup /mercury engine idea.
seems some other guy figured it out a few years back.
kinda humbled me.
i invited him to join us but havent heard back.
but we got the info: )
and numbers for the numbers guys.

its so hard to read pdfs and large experiments and diagrams on my phone so i try to do the best i can to further our cause.
thankyou for posting the address for me.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: PLAYSWITHMACHINES on December 11, 2012, 04:21:46 pm
Very nice, well done Robo.
I've read most of these, but not all. Musha's 3rd paper for a start. And where did Rexresearch get all those TTB files?

All very tasty, but i think it will turn back to the discussion on dielectrics, & our freind BaTi     ::)
Any links between this, plasma & magnetic fields should be worth looking into.
Musha's work is all highly theoretical, but the math looks good from where i'm sitting.
Have a go at it peeps, i will see you tomorrow ;)
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on December 11, 2012, 06:13:00 pm
Very nice, well done Robo.
I've read most of these, but not all. Musha's 3rd paper for a start. And where did Rexresearch get all those TTB files?



All very tasty, but i think it will turn back to the discussion on dielectrics, & our freind BaTi     ::)
Any links between this, plasma & magnetic fields should be worth looking into.
Musha's work is all highly theoretical, but the math looks good from where i'm sitting.
Have a go at it peeps, i will see you tomorrow ;)

Yep a lot of rehashing there but some interesting discussions.

Also some ridiculous statements, but hey, thats just to get people's attention.

Rex got their stuff from someone we know Luke...way back, its been there for a while. 8)

Cheers!
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: robomont on December 11, 2012, 07:11:38 pm
thats not all rex research stuff ,is it? : (
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on December 11, 2012, 08:08:06 pm
thats not all rex research stuff ,is it? : (
Nothing is Rex's they just reprinted at the permission of the Brown family webmaster from what i remember being told...it used to be on Qualight as well, but has since been removed.
Also, Rex never had the fourth notebook that we got a look at here a while back...
Most of that stuff is known but the original stuff about the spacecraft is made up by the website owner Id surmise because I cant find it anywhere else yet.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: PLAYSWITHMACHINES on December 13, 2012, 02:46:15 pm
Quote
Rex got their stuff from someone we know Luke...way back, its been there for a while.

Right, i have seen lots of extra material, and even some private mails with other researchers as Mikado 8)
Many of you have sent me anonymously & spontaneously, a great deal of information.
As of now, my PMM research is suspended, the magnets themselves wil be put to use in the next project.
Micier, i beleieve, posted a link on French efforts to replicate the MEG.
I intend to divert some energy in that direction, while i'm waiting for parts (& time) to build some HV supplies.
Magnetron research will commence shortly...
Meanwhile i'm preparing several threads, one is 'back to basics' research, one involves our getting 4 more freinds of mine on the forum, and the third one is plasma research ::)
I have to get those old files transferred, uploaded, & some text/diagrams done.
Give me a few days folks, it's hectic here.
And yes i can use all the help i can get.
Bill, your input is prolific, please post it in the 'inventors' section, so we small few can appraise it, i advise you all to read it, plus some things i will post from Matrix...
OK i'm off too see what's being posted.
Later!
PWM
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: PLAYSWITHMACHINES on February 09, 2014, 05:49:08 pm
Just 'bumping' this thread 8)

Please read all of it, from page 1, otherwise  you will miss the implictions.
Just read, and understand, is all i ask.
I wish Mikdo all the best in his research, even though the Mikado-Brown war stil rages, i see and respect comments made on both sides, if you are new to this forum, read all of it, i promise you that most of your questions will be answered here even before you get a chance to reply..... :D
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: robomont on February 09, 2014, 06:55:36 pm
I second that pwm.its frustrating repeating stuff to new members.when it involves antigravity.this thread goes pretty deep.plus if you are taking it serious.and read it all.there are benefits we will bestow upon you for doing so.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: PLAYSWITHMACHINES on February 11, 2014, 06:13:09 pm
Thank you Robo.

This is one of the all-time mega-threads which you rarely see these days, input from peeps past and present, and i daresay it will get even longer ::)

Especially since we are almost ready to combine a few tasty morsels from TTB, Dollard, Bearden etc etc :o

Watch this space 8)
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: rose on February 13, 2014, 10:40:30 am
Looking forward to hearing your interview, PWM.
rose
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: PLAYSWITHMACHINES on February 13, 2014, 03:49:07 pm
oh, s*** i forgot about that :-[
Lots of stuff coming out into the light, let's make it a good one!

(as soon as Deuem & Amy are ready)
Later!
 :D
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: zorgon on February 14, 2014, 01:20:53 pm
IN CASE ANYONE MISSED THIS

I created this thread to show that PLASMA was the new research :D

Hence the GOLDEN RING Levitating Dipole Helium 3 Fusion  reactor

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/41pegasus/04images/UFO_Tech/ldx_mov.gif)

Seems yawl missed the point :P
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: zorgon on February 14, 2014, 01:40:31 pm
Re: An interview

by re-rose » Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:42 pm

It's great to see the excitement on the Reddit thread.

I was just rereading The Golden Ring thread on Pegasus, which has much of your exchange with Mikado edited out. But what is left is a terrific repository of information for anyone who is interested in what is being done with TTB Technology by some garage workshop inventors. Or it would be if Reddit posters could get to it, but, darn it, it's behind a double wall. First they would have to join the Living Moon Forum there, and then petition Luke to be allowed into the Inventor's group.

However, I believe Luke is appearing on an Internet Radio Show in March. I don't know what subjects he will speak on. You might check and see if it is related to the same project and decide if you want to alert folks to that event.


Perhaps if Linda and her crew worked as hard to post the WORK RELATED MATERIAL then the reddit people could get the same info from her... instead of being barraged by Soap Operas and deliberate attempts to derail the very research she claims to be promoting

How about THAT for an idea?

No?

 ::)
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Littleenki on February 14, 2014, 02:14:24 pm
Always loved the idea of Focus Fusion....not the crappy Ford cars, the plasma device, silly!

http://www.lawrencevilleplasmaphysics.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=62&Itemid=80
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: PLAYSWITHMACHINES on February 14, 2014, 06:35:53 pm
IN CASE ANYONE MISSED THIS

I created this thread to show that PLASMA was the new research :D

Hence the GOLDEN RING Levitating Dipole Helium 3 Fusion  reactor

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/41pegasus/04images/UFO_Tech/ldx_mov.gif)

Seems yawl missed the point :P

No we didn't, we just got side-tracked a bit :D

This is SOAR, the Space Orbiting Advanced (fusion) Reactor;

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/inventors_group/images/ODD/soarx.jpg)

..The 'Aries RS';

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/inventors_group/images/ODD/ariesRS.jpg)

The 'Hiball';

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/inventors_group/images/ODD/hiball_cadx.jpg)

The Libra;

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/inventors_group/images/ODD/librax.jpg)

The Sirius;

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/inventors_group/images/ODD/siriusMx.jpg)

The Solase;

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/inventors_group/images/ODD/solaseHx.jpg)

I have full reports on these, and hundreds of other goodies. ;D

Fusion is alive & well, why else would Helium 3 (and the MOON) be so important?
LOL
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: zorgon on February 14, 2014, 06:57:44 pm
SOAR: Space Orbiting Advanced Fusion Power Reactor

First released at ATS Pegasus Document Release #2 (of 6) that ATS dumpped into skunkworks All 6 documents were genuine original source. It was after that I decided ATS was not worth much

DATE Nov 20 2007

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread316514/pg1
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: PLAYSWITHMACHINES on February 14, 2014, 07:19:23 pm
I won't deny the SOURCE, Z.
It was you, and you know how i got it...

Are we going to USE this info, or not?
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: zorgon on February 14, 2014, 09:43:26 pm
ya know  this is an FYI but...

I am sitting on a sketch of a space drive... top secret

Sadly I have not been authorized to release it yet... I asked a few days ago

Perhaps Octoberish  when the Russians plan make an announcement  that should blow your socks off :D

 8)
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: deuem on February 14, 2014, 10:16:52 pm
Deuem now buying extra pairs of socks. it is cold in Russia.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: PLAYSWITHMACHINES on February 24, 2014, 01:34:11 pm
Well get a move on, we only have 2 years to get our saucer built :P
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: burntheships on March 25, 2014, 05:13:09 pm
One can find the most interesting things out there on the interwebs.

This one is a gem.

Posted at Ishtars Gate by "Cropedy"

aka Revelations by "Hobbit" on TT Brown


Quote
TT Brown was the MASTER of disinformation...
http://www.ishtarsgate.com/forum/showthread.php?803-Dartmoor-henge-older-than-Stonehenge-for-winter-solstice&p=7204&viewfull=1#post7204

That was his answer to this question:

Quote
Crop, sorry to hark back further up the thread, but you mentioned TT Brown. I did some research on him yesterday, but couldn't find anything substantial. I had a look at the new forum of Linda's and the old one of Paul's. I also read the first eight chapters of The Goodbye Man, which mainly seems to be about Linda's child view of her father, which is fairly interesting as they led a colourful life, but it seems that her father never told her what he was doing for the government. So we are still left in the dark.
 

http://www.ishtarsgate.com/forum/showthread.php?803-Dartmoor-henge-older-than-Stonehenge-for-winter-solstice&p=7203&viewfull=1#post7203

Make of it what you will...
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: zorgon on March 25, 2014, 06:31:05 pm
Deuem now buying extra pairs of socks. it is cold in Russia.

They moved you to Siberia?  :o

Wow...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxpUEcxIo-Y[/youtube]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxpUEcxIo-Y
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: LSWONE on March 25, 2014, 08:37:49 pm
ya know  this is an FYI but...

I am sitting on a sketch of a space drive... top secret

Sadly I have not been authorized to release it yet... I asked a few days ago

Perhaps Octoberish  when the Russians plan make an announcement  that should blow your socks off :D

 8)

Dude stop with the teasing and give us a sneak peak? Do you have any pictures of plasma energy testing?  8)

I know you have some pics in your stash there!

LSWONE.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: PLAYSWITHMACHINES on March 27, 2014, 04:46:45 pm
Sorry about that, i had to pull those pics until His Zorgness is ready ;D

Quote
Do you have any pictures of plasma energy testing?
Only our own, LOL
Hmm let me see...

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/inventors_group/images/ODD/Rea7.jpg)

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/inventors_group/images/ODD/r1-5.JPG)

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/inventors_group/images/ODD/r1-9.JPG)

;)
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: LSWONE on March 27, 2014, 06:19:39 pm
Sorry about that, i had to pull those pics until His Zorgness is ready ;D
Only our own, LOL
Hmm let me see...

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/inventors_group/images/ODD/Rea7.jpg)

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/inventors_group/images/ODD/r1-5.JPG)



(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/inventors_group/images/ODD/r1-9.JPG)

;)





Wow that's so cool! Wish I had gear like that at home!!!!
Thanks for sharing PWM!!

LSWONE.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: PLAYSWITHMACHINES on March 28, 2014, 02:30:28 am
The first pic is the original reactor from Dr Chris in England, the rest are the build of the parts he sent to me 8)
I sent a mail to the Dutch high energy physics institute to see if they are interested.
So far i just got a mail saying they got mine......I guess they are a bit lost for words, LOL
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: Fruitbat on April 03, 2014, 05:45:44 am

My guess is that they will have their heads stuck up their backsides, and ignore you/us.
After all what possible contribution could people like us make?

fb.
Title: Re: The Gold Ring
Post by: PLAYSWITHMACHINES on April 03, 2014, 07:13:29 am
I think you're right :D
Especially since they got another few million to 'investigate' gravity & particle behavior, i guess they just aren't ready for this.
They will just NOT accept that it's possible to build a reactor in your kitchen, without billions in funding, LOL

Hell if they don't want one, i will send it to you, mate ;D