Pegasus Research Consortium

Earth Sciences => Earth Anomalies => Topic started by: zorgon on September 11, 2012, 03:12:43 pm

Title: The Earth Is Flat - THEY have been lying to you!
Post by: zorgon on September 11, 2012, 03:12:43 pm
The Earth Is Flat - THEY have been lying to you!

Just popped in to Alpha Tango Spook for some laughs and the first thing I see on the front page is this...

The Flat Earth theory, With Interviews from believers (http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread880323/pg1)

Stuff They Don't Want You To Know - Flat Earth

From How Stuff Works...

[youtube]1k3Fnb2wR0c[/youtube]

Flat Earth Society

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/Flat_earth.jpg)
A Flat Earth model depicting Antarctica as an ice wall surrounding a disk-shaped Earth.

Quote
The Flat Earth Society (also known as the International Flat Earth Society or the International Flat Earth Research Society) is an organization that seeks to further the belief that the Earth is flat instead of an oblate spheroid. The modern organization was founded by Englishman Samuel Shenton in 1956 and was later led by Charles K. Johnson, who based the organization in his home in Lancaster, California. The formal society was inactive after Johnson’s death in 2001 but was resurrected in 2004 by its new president Daniel Shenton.

Origins—the Zetetic societies

Quote
The belief that the Earth was flat was typical of ancient cosmologies until about the 4th century BC, when the Ancient Greek philosophers proposed the idea that the Earth was a sphere, or at least rounded in shape. Aristotle was one of the first thinkers to propose a spherical Earth in 330 BC. By the early Middle Ages, it was widespread knowledge throughout Europe that the Earth was a sphere.

Modern hypotheses supporting a flat Earth originated with English inventor Samuel Rowbotham (1816–1884). Based on his incorrect interpretation of experiments on the Bedford Level, Rowbotham published a 16-page pamphlet, called "Zetetic Astronomy", which he later expanded into a 430-page book, Earth Not a Globe, expounding his views. According to Rowbotham's system, the earth is a flat disc centred at the North Pole and bounded along its southern edge by a wall of ice (Antarctica), with the sun and moon 3000 miles (4800 km) and the "cosmos" 3100 miles (5000 km) above earth. He also published a leaflet entitled "The inconsistency of Modern Astronomy and its Opposition to the Scriptures!!" which argued that the "Bible, alongside our senses, supported the idea that the earth was flat and immovable and this essential truth should not be set aside for a system based solely on human conjecture".

Rowbotham and his followers, like William Carpenter who continued his work, gained attention by engaging in public debates with leading scientists of the day. One such debate, involving the prominent naturalist Alfred Russel Wallace, concerned the Bedford Level experiment (and later led to several lawsuits for fraud and libel). Rowbotham created a Zetetic Society in England and New York, shipping over a thousand copies of Zetetic Astronomy. Council members in New York included the US Consul to China and the superintendent of Baltimore public schools. He also edited "The Zetetic and Anti-Theorist: a monthly journal of practical cosmography".

After Rowbotham's death, Lady Elizabeth Blount, wife of the explorer Sir Walter de Sodington Blount, established a Universal Zetetic Society, whose objective was "the propagation of knowledge related to Natural Cosmogony in confirmation of the Holy Scriptures, based on practical scientific investigation". The society published a magazine entitled The Earth Not a Globe Review, and remained active well into the early part of the 20th century. A flat Earth journal, Earth: a Monthly Magazine of Sense and Science, was published between 1901–1904, edited by Lady Blount. In 1901, she repeated Rowbotham's Bedford Level Experiment and photographed the effect, sparking a correspondence in the magazine English Mechanic with several counter-claims. Later it achieved some notoriety by being involved in a scam involving dental practices. After World War I, the movement underwent a slow decline.

Modern incarnation

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b2/FESlogo.gif)
The logo of the modern Flat Earth Society

Quote
n 1956, Samuel Shenton, a signwriter by trade, created the International Flat Earth Society as a successor to the Universal Zetetic Society and ran it as "organizing secretary" from his home in Dover, in Britain. Due to Shenton's interest in alternative science and technology, the emphasis on religious arguments was less than in the predecessor society.

This was just before the launch of the first artificial satellite and when satellite images taken from outer space showed the Earth as a sphere rather than flat, the society was undaunted; Shenton remarked: "It's easy to see how a photograph like that could fool the untrained eye."

However it was not until the advent of manned spaceflight that Shenton managed to attract wide publicity, being featured in The New York Times in January and June 1964, when the epithet "flat-earther" was also slung across the floor of the House of Commons of the United Kingdom in both directions.

The society also took the position that the Apollo Moon landings were a hoax, staged by Hollywood and based on a script by Arthur C. Clarke, a position also held by others not connected to the Flat Earth Society. On hearing this, Clarke sent a facetious letter to NASA's chief administrator:

    "Dear Sir, on checking my records, I see that I have never received payment for this work. Could you please look into this matter with some urgency? Otherwise you will be hearing from my solicitors, Messrs Geldsnatch, Geldsnatch and Blubberclutch".

In 1969, Shenton persuaded Ellis Hillman, a Polytechnic lecturer, to become president of the Flat Earth Society, but there is little evidence of any activity on his part until after Shenton's death, when he added most of Shenton's library to the archives of the Science Fiction Foundation which he helped to establish.

Shenton died in 1971 and Charles K. Johnson, inheriting part of Shenton's library from Shenton's wife, established and became the president of the International Flat Earth Research Society of America and Covenant People's Church in California. Under his leadership, over the next three decades, the Flat Earth Society grew in size from a few members to about 3,000. Johnson distributed newsletters, flyers, maps, and other promotional materials to anyone who asked for them, and managed all membership applications together with his wife, Marjory, who was also a flat-earther. The most famous of these newsletters was Flat Earth News. Johnson paid for these publications through annual dues of members, which ranged from US$6 to $10 over the course of his leadership.

The most recent world model propagated by the Flat Earth Society holds that humanity lives on a disc, with the North Pole at its center and a 150-foot (45 m) high wall of ice at the outer edge. The resulting map resembles the symbol of the United Nations, which Johnson used as evidence for his position. In this model, the sun and moon are each a mere 32 miles (52 km) in diameter.

A newsletter from the society gives some insight into Johnson's thinking:

    Aim: To carefully observe, think freely, rediscover forgotten fact and oppose theoretical dogmatic assumptions. To help establish the United States...of the world on this flat earth. Replace the science religion...with SANITY.

    The International Flat Earth Society is the oldest continuous Society existing in the world today. It began with the Creation of the Creation. First the water...the face of the deep...without form or limits...just Water. Then the Land sitting in and on the Water, the Water then as now being flat and level, as is the very Nature of Water. There are, of course, mountains and valleys on the Land but since most of the World is Water, we say, "The World is Flat". Historical accounts and spoken history tell us the Land part may have been square, all in one mass at one time, then as now, the magnetic north being the Center. Vast cataclysmic events and shaking no doubt broke the land apart, divided the Land to be our present continents or islands as they exist today. One thing we know for sure about this world...the known inhabited world is Flat, Level, a Plain World.

    We maintain that what is called 'Science' today and 'scientists' consist of the same old gang of witch doctors, sorcerers, tellers of tales, the 'Priest-Entertainers' for the common people. 'Science' consists of a weird, way-out occult concoction of gibberish theory-theology...unrelated to the real world of facts, technology and inventions, tall buildings and fast cars, airplanes and other Real and Good things in life; technology is not in any way related to the web of idiotic scientific theory. ALL inventors have been anti-science. The Wright brothers said: "Science theory held us up for years. When we threw out all science, started from experiment and experience, then we invented the airplane." By the way, airplanes all fly level on this Plane earth.

The Flat Earth Society recruited members by attacking the United States government and all of its agencies, particularly NASA. Much of the society’s literature in its early days focused on interpreting the Bible literally to mean that the Earth is flat, although they did attempt to offer scientific explanations and evidence.

Peak and decline

Quote
The group rose to about 2,000 members during its peak under Charles K. Johnson. The organization faced overwhelming scientific evidence and public opinion that maintained that the Earth is a sphere. The term "flat-earther" became commonly used to refer to an individual who stubbornly adheres to discredited or outmoded ideas.

The society fell to around 200 members by 1980. These members still held the belief that the Earth is flat. Eugenie Scott called the society an example of "extreme Biblical-literalist theology: The earth is flat because the Bible says it is flat, regardless of what science tells us." The society was further affected by a fire at the house of Charles K. Johnson which destroyed all of the records and contacts of members of the Flat Earth Society. Johnson’s wife, who helped manage the database, died shortly thereafter. Charles K. Johnson himself died on March 19, 2001.

Canadian branch

Quote
The Flat Earth Society of Canada was set up by Leo Ferrari (1927–2010), a philosophy professor at the St Thomas University in 1970, together with Raymond Fraser and Alden Nowlan and was active till about 1984. Their aims were quite different from other flat earth societies. With obvious humorous overtones, they claimed a prevailing problem of the new technological age was the willingness of people to accept theories "on blind faith and to reject the evidence of their own senses." They did not actually believe Flat Earth theories, considering their proponents to be cranks, and indeed did not accept such people into their society, which was composed of quite a few prominent members of Canadian literary and political circles.

They published a newsletter, The Official Chronicle and promoted their ideas more widely through television and press. Its primary aims were "to combat the fallacious deification of the circle," "to restore man's confidence in the validity of his own perceptions", and "to spearhead man's escape from his metaphysical and geometrical prison."

Flat Earth Society From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth_Society#Modern_incarnation)
Title: Re: The Earth Is Flat - THEY have been lying to you!
Post by: zorgon on September 11, 2012, 03:16:10 pm
Quote
Interview 1
Strange_Wayz/Tom Bishop
I created a general thread asking members for an interview, a member of the forum told me this of Tom Bishop


    Your best bet for an interview IMHO is Tom Bishop. He knows everything there is to know about flat earth theory and he is an interesting character at the very least - if you are lucky he may oblige. The Round Earthers here hate him, but that should give you some idea of how formidable he can be in debate. He also rarely does interviews so yours wouldn't be like all the Shenton/Davis interviews that you can google.

Do you believe the earth to be completely flat or more of a bowl shape?

The earth is flat.

When did you first start believing the earth was flat?

I first heard about the Flat Earth Society on CNN about 11 years ago. Former FES president Charles K. Johnson appeared on television to give an interview on national television describing his beliefs about the earth. The concept of a group of intellectuals who believed that the earth was flat intrigued me, prompting me to look further. After some months playing with the idea I finally ordered a copy of Earth Not a Globe, the premiere manual on Flat Earth Theory.

Earth Not a Globe was written in the mid 1800‘s by a medical doctor named Samuel Birley Rowbotham. Dr. Rowbotham starts his work as an honest inquiry into the shape of the Earth, starting afresh without interpreting the results of experiments to any one particular predisposition. He calls his method of inquiry Zeteticiscm, where tests are tried and facts are collected without building upon any particular hypothesis or theory.

Zeteticism is is in direct contradiction to the Scientific Method, where one begins with a hypothesis and builds his work off of that. Purveyors of the Scientific Method seek to ‘stand on the shoulders of giants’, building one hypothesis upon the next in mumbling pretension until we have house of cards model of the universe consisting nothing but undiscovered phenomena like graviton particles and dark matter to glue the entire horrid mess together.

Rowbotham made me disgusted with the Newtonian and every other theory. His work compelled me to realize that astronomers are not scientists like other scientists. They cannot put the universe under controlled conditions to come to the truth of the matter, as a chemist can with his subject matter. An astronomer can only observe and interpret. Stephan Hawking never performed any experiments on the universe before publishing his works, for example. Nor did Newton or Copernicus. Even in the 1800‘s, Rowbotham saw that the bulk of astronomy was based on hypothesis and conjecture.

As a form of empiricism, Zeteticsm is the more honest approach to science. Direct evidence is demanded in all things. A Zetetic is a free-thinker; one whose views are based on logic and reason independent of authority.

Is it possible for one to reach the edge? If so what would they see?

It is not possible for one to reach the edge. The earth is an infinite plane.

Do you think the round earth is a huge government lie? If so, why would they spend all those resources and time to keep the public in the dark

This is a common assumption people have when visiting our website -- that there is some elaborate conspiracy hiding the shape of the earth or otherwise tricking the public into believing that it is round. But the government is not hiding the shape of the earth. They are simply mistaken.

There is a conspiracy, but it has nothing to do with hiding the shape of the earth. The purpose of NASA is to fake the concept of space travel to further America's militaristic dominance of space. That was the purpose of NASA's creation from the very start: To put ICBMs and other weapons into space (or at least appear to). The sentiment of a desire to explore space was nothing more than a front.

See this quote from president Lyndon Johnson:

"Control of space means control of the world. From space, the masters of infinity
would have the power to control the earth's weather, to cause drought and flood,
to change the tides and raise the levels of the sea, to divert the gulf stream and
change temperate climates to frigid. There is something more important than the
ultimate weapon. And that's the ultimate position. The position of total control
over the Earth that lies somewhere in outer space."

-President Lyndon Johnson, Statement on Status of Nation's Defense and Race for
Space, January 7, 1958


One month later, Lyndon Johnson and the Senate Special Committee on Space and Astronautics drafted a resolution to change the name of the US Army's Ballistic Missile Arsenal to the National Aeronautics and Space Administration.

NASA's early rocket research is well documented to have been a complete failure, plagued by one disaster after another. At some point, perhaps after the Apollo 1 disaster, it was decided to fake the space program outright and use rockets which only needed to fly into the air until they disappeared from sight. NASA went from nearly every launch being a failure to a near flawless track record, able to land man on the moon multiple times without error, and with only two public spectacles of failure in 45 years.

The earth is portrayed as round in NASA media because NASA thinks it's round. They are not in the business of running a real space program, so they wouldn't know what shape the earth truly takes. At the time of NASA's creation the general population already believed that the earth was round, based on the handed down teachings of the Ancient Greeks, which is why it was depicted in that manner. As with everyone else in the country, the people at NASA were brainwashed with the fiction of a globe earth from the cradle, so there was no doubt in their mind as how to display it.

What are your beliefs on the Moon Landings and the recent curiosity rover on mars?

Fake.

What about amateur pictures from weather balloons where you can supposedly see the curvature of the planet?

Real. At the edge of space you are looking down on a circle of light, and will therefore see some slight curvature to the horizon.

Do you believe in aliens, and what do you make of their supposed link to ancient civilizations?

I don’t believe in aliens and I am not religious.

SOURCE: ATS THREAD (http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread880323/pg1)
Title: Re: The Earth Is Flat - THEY have been lying to you!
Post by: zorgon on September 11, 2012, 03:19:09 pm
Quote
Interview 2
Strange_Wayz/Ski
Ski is a “Planar Moderator” on the Flat Earth Forums, With a total of 5417 posts so I was delighted to be given this opportunity, Here it is


Do you believe the earth to be completely flat or more of a bowl shape?

It is obviously not "completely" flat. I do not believe it to be concave, however. As an interesting aside, nearly every ancient cosmology places a ring of mountains at the rim of the disc producing a rough bowl shape, I suppose.

When did you first start believing the earth was flat?

When I was in school studying philosophy, I began looking at generational "common knowledge" "truths" versus empirical truths (Hume, Kant, Hobbes, etc). I began to question many of my beliefs and attempted to reconstruct them empirically. I questioned the shape of the earth only as a nod to this exercise. To my surprise globularism fared rather poorly. The more I questioned the accepted model, the more I found the answers uncompelling.

Is it possible for one to reach the edge? If so what would they see?

I think the edge is sufficiently remote in the depths of the rim-country, that the inhospitable weather conditions make travel there unlikely. It is perhaps possible by way of flight. Navigation into terra incognita, where magnetic field lines are near vertical seems daunting. I imagine one would peer into the depths of space beyond the rim.

Do you think the round earth is a huge government lie? If so, why would they spend all those resources and time to keep the public in the dark? What are your beliefs on the Moon Landings and the recent curiosity rover on mars?

I don't think the government proper has any indication the earth is anything but a globe. There exists an influential group of Illuminists within governments promoting the idea for their own gain. The moon and martian landings are contested by millions of people with no interest in promoting a flat earth agenda. It is hardly novel that we reject those claims based on available evidence.

What about amateur pictures from weather balloons where you can supposedly see the curvature of the planet?

Most of these endeavours use a fish-eye or other wide-angle lens. This provides a spectacular field of view, but also introduces barrel-distortion in the image.

[youtube]r-TCO2IdoTA[/youtube]

Look at 1:33-1:36 in the video.
Look at 2:47-53 in the video

It's pretty clear that the horizon is flat when he opens the door to the capsule, and that it looks curved when seen from the wide angle view outside of the capsule. The horizon looks curved even at ground level from the outside cameras.

Some curvature should be evident from height above the portion of the earth lit by the sun. This is the boundary of the area illuminated, and not (necessarily) the bounds of the earth.

Do you believe in aliens, and what do you make of their supposed link to ancient civilizations?

I believe the alien/UFO phenomenon do exist, but do not believe them to be extra-terrestrial.
[/size]

SOURCE: ATS THREAD (http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread880323/pg1)
Title: Re: The Earth Is Flat - THEY have been lying to you!
Post by: zorgon on September 11, 2012, 03:37:04 pm
Flat Earth Society Library

Welcome to the Flat Earth Society library.  This is the largest collection of Flat Earth literature on the internet.  I believe we also have the largest collection of Flat Earth Society newsletters anywhere in the world, online or in print.

http://theflatearthsociety.org/cms/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=47&Itemid=62

And you thought the earth was Round :P
Title: Re: The Earth Is Flat - THEY have been lying to you!
Post by: biggles on September 11, 2012, 04:35:08 pm
So all those spherical views of the earth outside spacecraft are lies, their lying to us............I don't believe it.....are they telling us porkies............nooooo.  :o
Title: Re: The Earth Is Flat - THEY have been lying to you!
Post by: Shasta56 on May 15, 2017, 08:02:45 pm
If the Earth was flat, cats would have pushed everything off the edge by now.

Shasta
Title: Re: The Earth Is Flat - THEY have been lying to you!
Post by: rdunk on May 15, 2017, 08:40:41 pm
Of all of the "stories" that I have witnessed during my looooooooong life so far, the proposition of there being a "flat Earth" is perhaps the most ridiculous. Of course, a flat Earth was a well respected "fact", when man didn't KNOW differently. But, the technology of today so easily refutes the supposition of the flat Earth. For any who believe such, it is like a "fairy tale" being taken and justified with reason basis, but with no reality!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Shasta56, it is just a guess, but I would bet that even the cats know that the Earth is not flat!! 
Title: Re: The Earth Is Flat - THEY have been lying to you!
Post by: A51Watcher on May 15, 2017, 10:00:00 pm
If the Earth was flat, cats would have pushed everything off the edge by now.

Shasta


"Can you not??"

heh heh

Title: Re: The Earth Is Flat - THEY have been lying to you!
Post by: The Seeker on May 16, 2017, 03:45:06 am
OK, I have a question for the flat earthers: What's on the bottom of this obviously(in their minds) cosmic pancake we reside on?

How do they account for the seasonal procession that brings months of darkness to both the North and South poles?

Perhaps they all need more fiber in their diet, and a plexiglass belly button might improve their view of the world...

just sayin...

Seeker
Title: Re: The Earth Is Flat - THEY have been lying to you!
Post by: zorgon on May 16, 2017, 03:58:41 am
Of all of the "stories" that I have witnessed during my looooooooong life so far, the proposition of there being a "flat Earth" is perhaps the most ridiculous.

What shape is it in the Bible?  In the Qur'an  it is flat  :P
Title: Re: The Earth Is Flat - THEY have been lying to you!
Post by: Irene on May 16, 2017, 09:25:57 am
If the Earth was flat, cats would have pushed everything off the edge by now.

Shasta

ROTFLMFAO

Gold for that!  ;D
Title: Re: The Earth Is Flat - THEY have been lying to you!
Post by: Shasta56 on May 16, 2017, 01:25:31 pm
Thank you.  I saw a cartoon about that on Facebook.  It made me think.  I know Max loves to knock everything off whatever he's on.  He's a big cat, so he can clear a coffee table with minimal effort.  Some of the others are almost as bad. 

Shasta
Title: Re: The Earth Is Flat - THEY have been lying to you!
Post by: Irene on May 16, 2017, 03:35:30 pm
Thank you.  I saw a cartoon about that on Facebook.  It made me think.  I know Max loves to knock everything off whatever he's on.  He's a big cat, so he can clear a coffee table with minimal effort.  Some of the others are almost as bad. 

Shasta

Bear, my current cat, isn't a "flat earther", but many who came before him were.

People who don't like cats will never understand how endearing their antisocial behaviors really are.  :)
Title: Re: The Earth Is Flat - THEY have been lying to you!
Post by: thorfourwinds on May 16, 2017, 04:14:27 pm
(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10005/Flat_Earth_Society_acc_suspended.png)
Title: Re: The Earth Is Flat - THEY have been lying to you!
Post by: ArMaP on May 16, 2017, 04:22:58 pm
(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10005/Flat_Earth_Society_acc_suspended.png)
They were flattened?  :P
Title: Re: The Earth Is Flat - THEY have been lying to you!
Post by: biggles on May 16, 2017, 05:16:05 pm
If the Earth was flat, cats would have pushed everything off the edge by now.

Shasta

HA,HA,HA, gold for that too as well Shasta, that was brilliant honey. xo
Title: Re: The Earth Is Flat - THEY have been lying to you!
Post by: rdunk on May 16, 2017, 05:59:30 pm
What shape is it in the Bible?  In the Qur'an  it is flat  :P

Ha ha!! The shape of the Earth has never been in question for me!! Without a doubt, it is spherical/globular body which was in the beginning formed by God. "What does the Bible say about its shape", you ask?

Genesis 1:1-2 says,

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

It does seem that in the beginning that "the Earth was without form, and void.......", but in the succeeding passages, for some reason, God apparently didn't see a need to go into detail about its actual shape.

It is interesting that words like globe, ball, and sphere didn't even come into existence until sometime after 1100 AD. So, putting the Earth's shape into laymen's terms/understanding might have been difficult before that time, doncha think.

If the Earth were actually flat, as some contend, then it would be a very paradoxical and unique piece in the Universe that we now have some knowledge about. None of the other "planets" in our Solar system are "flat", and we know that by scientific fact - unless one takes the assumption that all that we know about what we see with telescopes and otherwise is totally unreal - and that is in the realm of pure "make believe"! IMO!  ;)  ;)
Title: Re: The Earth Is Flat - THEY have been lying to you!
Post by: ArMaP on May 16, 2017, 06:15:02 pm
It is interesting that words like globe, ball, and sphere didn't even come into existence until sometime after 1100 AD. So, putting the Earth's shape into laymen's terms/understanding might have been difficult before that time, doncha think.
Both "globe" and "sphere" come from Latin, so they have an older origin, even if they weren't used in English until later.

But you don't know a specific word to describe a shape when you can compare it with the shape of some know object, in the same way some people during Columbus' time thought that the Earth was pear-shaped, they could say that the Earth was orange-shaped or whatever.
Title: Re: The Earth Is Flat - THEY have been lying to you!
Post by: Amaterasu on May 16, 2017, 07:47:01 pm
How interesting that I just put up an article yesterday called Putting the Flat Earth to Bed on My forum...  And here this is popping up again!

The text:

I tire of repeating, over and over, these facts, so... I will post them here and start linking.

First, the north-centric model (Dubay, et al) does not work - it would have the stars in the "south" whipping by at a fair clip in nearly straight lines, with different stars seen from different southern points. But the stars in the south circle around a point (no visible star there) mirroring the behavior of those in the north, always due south from wherever One can see it (anywhere in the southern hemisphere).

Second, on a flat plain, when going upward, once You get above things that block the view, You would see all You can see. Going up further will show no more. But when We go upwards, We see more and more of the planet, exactly like One would going up from the surface of a ball.

Third, the flat earth "movement" is RIFE with disingenuous arguments - ignoring scale, gravity, optics, friction, refraction, AND misstating distances to "prove" flatness. WHY does the truth need even ONE disingenuous argument?

Fourth, though the flat earth proponents have said that if You get a stronger instrument, it will bring ships back into view that sank, hull to crows nest, at the horizon, I have watched ships sink with binoculars and then switched to a fairly powerful telescope - and nope. It does NOT bring them back into view. Once sunk, They cannot be seen, and so... There are People out there LYING to prove the flat earth. WHY would the truth need even ONE lie?

Fifth, the fact that, for aeons, sailors have been calculating latitude in the northern hemisphere by the position of Polaris, with a direct correlation between latitude and degrees above the horizon, proves a globe. When Polaris is at the horizon (something that cannot happen on a pancake), One is at the equator (0º), when it is 45º up from the horizon, One is at the 45th parallel... (See: http://debunkingflatearth.blogspot.com/2016/02/debunking-flat-earth-how-polaris-proves.html )

Sixth, on a globe, eclipses can be predicted, the movements of the planets can be predicted, the seasons explained, the zodiacal progression, the phases of the moon, and other things the flat idea has nothing to offer for.

Seriously, I could go on, but the flat idea has ZERO models that explain what We see and I ask You, with all this... WHY would anyOne believe in something that has ZERO behind it when a model that has been accepted for aeons (with a hiatus in the dark ages when the same faction (the psychopaths in control) promulgated the flat idea that promulgates it now) works beautifully?

As for some of the disingenuous arguments... I'll give You three. I have seen People pouring water on a ball to "prove" water doesn't "stick to a ball," ignoring the planet-sized gravity well immediately adjacent pulling the water OFF the ball. I have seen People spinning balls on the floor to "prove" a ball will not keep spinning, ignoring the friction of the ball on the floor. And I have seen People point to a glass of water saying, "Look! It's FLAT!" As if, at that small a fraction of a single degree of arc (4" is 0.00009% of a single degree of arc), We would see the hump in the middle a few MOLECULES high by eyeballing the glass.

YES, NASA lies and fakes things. But to jump on the flat earth psyop bandwagon because of that is VERY poor thinking. In fact, it would seem that NASA conceived of the flat earth psyop to cover the growing awareness that They DO fake things with misdirection. The Pentagon implemented the psyop, with Eric "The Mason" Dubay at its lead. So... The question becomes, what is the REAL reason NASA fakes things and lies?

The globe was not NASA's invention, yet the "NASA LIES!" cry is used to "prove" flatness - a most absurd leap, when You think about it. The globe was known in ancient times, and the church brought the flat concept to the fore in the dark ages. The church finally gave up on the flat idea as too much in the way of observations, measurements, calculations, and geometry, along with logic, reason, and critical thinking, made it clear We are on a globe. Their stance was beginning to be ridiculed.

Back to the question of what the real reason NASA fakes things is... What if there is an artificial barrier just above low earth orbit that We can't get through? What if the useless eliters are trying to hide it? Stuff from low earth orbit seems to be real, but stuff beyond that seems to be faked. What if this is LITERALLY a prison planet? What if They don't want Us to ask, "Who put that barrier there - and WHY?" So They fake going beyond that barrier, giving the ILLUSION that this is not a prison planet.

Given the many legends around the globe of a time when there was no moon, and if this is what is going on, We might think that the moon was placed there - maybe an artificial construct like a "death star" - with wardens watching the prison. This would explain "The Watchers..." Perhaps the moon was placed exactly the distance it was so as to cover the face of the sun, thereby striking fear and awe in the hearts and minds of the primitive People on the planet below. It has been reported that the moon behaves aberrantly relative to gravitational expectations.

And to Any who still cling to that psyop, beLIEving the disingenuous nonsense, before You come in here and start with Your stuff, know: unless You start by answering the following question, I will most likely delete Your comments: Why does the flat earth concept need SO many disingenuous arguments? The truth needs ZERO.

I tell you what, though. I won't delete You if You bring a flat model that explains the stars in the south mirroring the behavior of the stars in the north, spinning around a point (no visible star there), always due south of anywhere it can be seen from (southern hemisphere) - and I will also give the probability We are on a pancake more than 0.0000000000000001%. Deal?


Oh, and if You think somehow the southern stars are projected into the sky, please see this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsz6yKDrCHM


Thank You for reading, and I hope You are honest enough with Yourself (if You think the planet is flat) to seriously mull over what I offer here.


On to MUCH more important things. Solving for psychopaths in control on Our planet:

(And links to My articles follow)
Title: Re: The Earth Is Flat - THEY have been lying to you!
Post by: rdunk on May 16, 2017, 07:57:22 pm
Both "globe" and "sphere" come from Latin, so they have an older origin, even if they weren't used in English until later.

But you don't know a specific word to describe a shape when you can compare it with the shape of some know object, in the same way some people during Columbus' time thought that the Earth was pear-shaped, they could say that the Earth was orange-shaped or whatever.

This is where I got my info on the word origination dates, and that includes Latin - - Dictionary.com

(https://s3.postimg.org/rohomm3gz/Screen_Shot_2017-05-16_at_9.42.35_PM.jpg)
Title: Re: The Earth Is Flat - THEY have been lying to you!
Post by: zorgon on May 17, 2017, 01:16:17 am
None of the other "planets" in our Solar system are "flat", and we know that by scientific fact -

Scientific fact is irrelevant to a belief system :P
Title: Re: The Earth Is Flat - THEY have been lying to you!
Post by: zorgon on May 17, 2017, 01:27:19 am
It is interesting that words like globe, ball, and sphere didn't even come into existence until sometime after 1100 AD. So, putting the Earth's shape into laymen's terms/understanding might have been difficult before that time, doncha think.

No actually...

Eratosthenes  276 BC – c. 195/194 BC

Quote
Eratosthenes of Cyrene was a Greek mathematician, geographer, poet, astronomer, and music theorist. He was a man of learning, becoming the chief librarian at the Library of Alexandria. He invented the discipline of geography, including the terminology used today.

He is best known for being the first person to calculate the circumference of the Earth, which he did by applying a measuring system using stadia, a standard unit of measure during that time period. His calculation was remarkably accurate. He was also the first to calculate the tilt of the Earth's axis (again with remarkable accuracy). Additionally, he may have accurately calculated the distance from the Earth to the Sun and invented the leap day. He created the first map of the world, incorporating parallels and meridians based on the available geographic knowledge of his era.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eratosthenes

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1f/Eratosthenes_measure_of_Earth_circumference.svg/512px-Eratosthenes_measure_of_Earth_circumference.svg.png)
Illustration showing a portion of the globe showing a part of the African continent. The sunbeams shown as two rays hitting the ground at Syene and Alexandria. Angle of sunbeam and the gnomons (vertical pole) is shown at Alexandria, which allowed Eratosthenes' estimates of radius and circumference of Earth.


So before the Christian Bible was written :P  the Greeks already knew it was a globe and they knew how big it was :D

Too bad the Muslims burned that Library at Alexandria... who knows where we might be today with all that was lost in there that had to be rediscovered

On another note... The Church finally accepted the truth and apologized to Galileo for almost burning him as a Heretic :D

After 350 Years, Vatican Says Galileo Was Right: It Moves (http://www.nytimes.com/1992/10/31/world/after-350-years-vatican-says-galileo-was-right-it-moves.html)
Title: Re: The Earth Is Flat - THEY have been lying to you!
Post by: zorgon on May 17, 2017, 01:35:23 am
But you don't know a specific word to describe a shape when you can compare it with the shape of some know object, in the same way some people during Columbus' time thought that the Earth was pear-shaped, they could say that the Earth was orange-shaped or whatever.

Well Columbus knew the earth was round :P  But in reality THIS is what the Earth looks like  if you remove all the water

(http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/blogs/bad_astronomy/2015/09/21/lumpy_earth_without_water.jpg.CROP.original-original.jpg)

One of the biggest things that Flat Earther's use to claim a flat earth is that WATER seeks LEVEL

But this is NOT TRUE  Water (actually any liquid) seeks to be a sphere...  and it is not based on gravity.

Take a glass of water filled to the brim...  look at it closely from the side... you will see the surface of the water has a slight but visible CONVEX surface... the center being higher that the rim

You can see this effect in rain drops on a leaf... 

(https://www.walldevil.com/wallpapers/a90/leaf-raindrop-rain-drop-water.jpg)

In this slow motion capture you can see the water drop being a sphere (as well as another interesting effect)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynk4vJa-VaQ
Title: Re: The Earth Is Flat - THEY have been lying to you!
Post by: ArMaP on May 17, 2017, 06:09:23 am
Well Columbus knew the earth was round :P
If I'm not mistaken, he thought the Earth was pear-shaped, and that's why he was expecting to reach Asia, because he was thinking that the Earth was less wide at that point and Asia was closer to Europe.

Quote
But in reality THIS is what the Earth looks like  if you remove all the water

(http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/blogs/bad_astronomy/2015/09/21/lumpy_earth_without_water.jpg.CROP.original-original.jpg)
Not really, as that altitude is exaggerated.

Quote
But this is NOT TRUE  Water (actually any liquid) seeks to be a sphere...  and it is not based on gravity.
No, I think it's because of the liquid's surface tension, that makes their molecules stick together.
Title: Re: The Earth Is Flat - THEY have been lying to you!
Post by: thorfourwinds on June 17, 2017, 11:32:38 pm
Quote
They were flattened?  :P

Egad! I know when we are in a different timeline when THIS ArMaP makes a terrific joke!

Who said that our resident skeptic-at-large doesn't have a (wry) sense of humor?

Kudos to whomever you may be at this moment.    8)

We absolutely adore you, notwithstanding a few pokes to the bear in the den now and then.   ;)

The treatise on your mouth-watering Portuguese food was most excellent - and succeeded in flooding the boards - at least for a while.   ;D

Thank you for sharing and we look forward to more insights into the local food scene.


This will be of interest.

Global vs Flat Earth + transhumanism + Middle East Prophecy + Vaccines + More

http://www.globalvsflatearth.com

Our friend, Steven Ben-nun of Israeli News Live and De-Noon Institute of Biblical Research is the producer and we (TEAM RABUN/rabunopsec) already have our rooms reserved at the Holiday Inn.

De-Noon Institute of Biblical Research presents:
Summer 2017 Conference
August 5 – 6, 2017
Holiday Inn Gwinnett Center
6310 Sugarloaf Pkwy
Duluth, GA 30097

Are we living in the last days?

Who are to be the truth seekers and the Watchers?

What is the real shape of our world?

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10005/GlobalVsFE-_600.png)

Questions about Middle East Prophecy, Vaccines, Trans-humanism and all the above will be answered and discussed by the world's top researchers.

Please join us.

All tickets are $25.00 each which includes admission for both days.

http://www.globalvsflatearth.com
Title: Re: The Earth Is Flat - THEY have been lying to you!
Post by: zorgon on June 18, 2017, 03:30:32 am
What is the real shape of our world?

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/SYve2cBx-kc/maxresdefault.jpg)
Title: Re: The Earth Is Flat - THEY have been lying to you!
Post by: Amaterasu on June 18, 2017, 05:30:59 am
We did vid # 2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eukXAXEcyn8
Title: Re: The Earth Is Flat - THEY have been lying to you!
Post by: ArMaP on June 18, 2017, 06:20:46 am
I saw this some days ago on Facebook. ;)

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/19030681_10155346265127270_1002366191310772200_n.png)
Title: Re: The Earth Is Flat - THEY have been lying to you!
Post by: zorgon on June 18, 2017, 12:14:32 pm
We did vid # 2:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhvlKbGEaa8

 :o

 ::)
Title: Re: The Earth Is Flat - THEY have been lying to you!
Post by: Irene on June 18, 2017, 12:57:45 pm
I can't believe people buy into the "Flat Earth" crap. I refuse to even entertain that conversation.

Ignorance is bliss, i guess, here in the 21st Century, with satellites and space missions, and PICTURES.  ::)
Title: Re: The Earth Is Flat - THEY have been lying to you!
Post by: rdunk on June 18, 2017, 03:24:40 pm
I can't believe people buy into the "Flat Earth" crap. I refuse to even entertain that conversation.

Ignorance is bliss, i guess, here in the 21st Century, with satellites and space missions, and PICTURES.  ::)

+++1 Irene - - Some people will do most anything to make a dollar! The Brooklyn Bridge has been for sale for a lot of years - probably some of the Bridge-Buyers are Flat-Earthers too. The flat-earth scenario sells books, sells admission tickets for meetings, and etc!

I do not know if it has been noted as to why Earth, if flat, is the only seeable flat-planet in the solar system. Clearly nothing else that I know of in our system is simply flat, neither planets or moons!! Actually, wouldn't a "flat Earth" pretty much negate most of the physics properties of the Earth as we know them? Just maybe, a black hole type of feature passed by Earth and simply rolled Earth flat?? ( ;) normally I do not even look at the flat-earth threads, but did stop to view a few of these!  ;) )
Title: Re: The Earth Is Flat - THEY have been lying to you!
Post by: biggles on June 18, 2017, 04:10:09 pm
I'm not on FB anymore, permanently deleted it; but some people I thought were very intelligent kept ramming the flat earth theory with youtubes etc down their friends throats and nothing could dissuade them on any level. 
Title: Re: The Earth Is Flat - THEY have been lying to you!
Post by: zorgon on June 18, 2017, 06:44:48 pm
Before the last Dark Ages  there was real learning and advancement. The Library at Alexandria, the automatrons of the Greeks  on and on...

It was Islamic extremism that burned the library

It was Christian extremeism that started the Dark Ages

Look at the news today  Fanatical Islam is on the rise again and are the drivers of the Flat Earth because it says so in the Qur'an therefore it must be so

Will the Religions of the world once again trigger the New Dark Ages escalating out of control.  Schools are removing real science from the labs  No more chemistry sets or bunsen burners in class... because the snowflakes may hurt themselves...

STUPID is becoming more and more the 'norm'  Insanity rules in politics. pedophilia is rampaging unchecked, and transgender agenda is going full speed ahead

You cannot reason with a flat earther, you cannot reason with a Nibiru believer, you cannpt reason with a chemtrail believer (contrail denier :P )  UFOlogy has become a joke  Rerligion has become so splintered that there are thousands of versions of "truth' in every main stream religion

"News" media is now 100% a propaganda machine, so much so we thing all news is 'false flag' these days

We are DOOMED  It is 118 outside today...  seems like Hell hath sprung loose on Earth  :P

Title: Re: The Earth Is Flat - THEY have been lying to you!
Post by: biggles on June 18, 2017, 06:46:50 pm
"the snowflakes may hurt themselves"  ;D

But your right Z, I agree.
Title: Re: The Earth Is Flat - THEY have been lying to you!
Post by: The Seeker on June 18, 2017, 07:19:05 pm
Everything goes in cycles; history appears to be heading towards repeating itself; we are overdue for an ice age; the majority of the people seemed bound and determined to revive chaos and anarchy...

the modern day version of the crusades is running amok in the middle east...

perhaps this round of civilization has run its course and it is time for the cycle to renew once more

Title: Re: The Earth Is Flat - THEY have been lying to you!
Post by: AliensShrinkedMyPony on June 19, 2017, 04:38:43 am
If the earth is flat there would be no coffee on this planet.
No equator no coffee ...

Title: Re: The Earth Is Flat - THEY have been lying to you!
Post by: The Seeker on August 05, 2017, 04:36:45 am
(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10004/normal_captain_Picard_face_palm.png)