Pegasus Research Consortium

Endangered Earth => Geoengineering => Topic started by: thorfourwinds on August 03, 2012, 09:14:39 am

Title: Water Wars
Post by: thorfourwinds on August 03, 2012, 09:14:39 am

(http://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w400/thorfourwinds/AUGUST%202012/Crater-Lake-Oregon-3.jpg)


Monday, July 30, 2012
Rainwater Crimes: Man Gets Jail & Fines For Collecting On His Own Land (http://cnsnews.com/news/article/oregon-man-sentenced-30-days-jail-collecting-rainwater-his-property)

A case of the government seeking money and bondage from rural residents by purposely misconstruing an old law & bending definitions.

(CNSNews.com) – A rural Oregon man was sentenced Wednesday to 30 days in jail and over $1,500 in fines because he had three reservoirs on his property to collect and use rainwater.

Gary Harrington had no idea that he was a water criminal under an obscure 1925 law until 2002 when state bureaucrats told him that his three reservoirs were illegal collection devices that were a crime against his community.

At first, Harrington complied and legally filed for three permits to keep the rainwater run-off within his 170-acre property, including one that had been on the property for 37 years.


According to Oregon water laws,
all water is publicly owned.


Therefore, anyone who wants to store any type of water on their property must first obtain a permit from state water managers.

However, it appears that the Oregon government is adamantly against its citizens storing and using their own source of water. Although his permits were approved in 2003, the state court arbitrarily reversed their decision and was subsequently backed up by a county Circuit Court judge who ruled that he had illegally “withdrawn the water at issue from appropriation other than for the City of Medford.” (Source)


(http://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w400/thorfourwinds/AUGUST%202012/31710D_0.jpg)


Even if the city of Medford did legitimately own all the water, Harrington has good standing when he points out that the law mentions only streams and tributaries, not water run-off formulated from the clouds.
 
Clearly, the Oregon government is sending the message that if a resident wants water, it had better be with their approval and by their means. But Oregon isn't the only place instituting rainwater tyranny.

Western states such as Utah, Colorado, and Washington have long outlawed the practice, basically invoking the collectivist notion that the rainwater is ultimately communal, and to store it (hoard it) is a crime. Gary Harrington says he plans to appeal his conviction in Jackson County (Ore.) Circuit Court on nine misdemeanor charges under a 1925 law for having what state water managers called “three illegal reservoirs” on his property – and for filling the reservoirs with rainwater and snow runoff. Source (http://www.naturalnews.com/029286_rainwater_collection_water.html) 

Other countries have had uprisings over this issue. In 1999, mega corporation, Bechtel, the largest construction contractor in the United States and winner of rebuilding contracts after the leveling provided by Katrina and the invasion of Iraq, privatized the public water system in Cochabamba - Bolivia's third largest city. As reported at the time:


Quote
Back in 1999, the private construction contractor Bechtel took over control of the public water system in Bolivia’s third largest city, Cochabamba.

The corporation then held a monopoly over this very basic human necessity and proceeded to raise rates by as much as 200 percent, far beyond what families could afford.

The law even said that people had to obtain a permit to collect rainwater! (that means even rainwater was privatized!)

This is a country where indigenous farming communities previously had their own water rights, but their water sources were converted into property to be bought and sold by international corporations.

When the company refused to lower rates, the people began to rise up and revolt against this injustice; they confronted Bechtel during five months of mobilization and managed to defeat them, breach the contract and change the law.

A 17-year-old boy named Victor Hugo Daza was killed in the protests along with four indigenous people from El Alto, while hundreds were injured. It was this popular uprising in Cochabamba that led to the election of their new president Evo Morales, the first ever indigenous head of state in Bolivia.

So Bechtel was thrown out of Bolivia, but months later they moved to do the exact same thing in Ecuador‘s largest city of Guayaquil. And in November 2001, they filed a lawsuit against Bolivia demanding $50 million, an amount which is just short of what the corporation makes in a day.

The case will be decided behind closed doors in a secret trade court at the World Bank headquarters in Washington; it will tell whether the people of South America’s poorest country will have to pay $50 million to one of the world’s most wealthy corporations.

Update: In 2006, Bechtel dropped their case against Bolivia.

Bechtel, a global engineering and construction company based in San Francisco, today reached agreement with the government of Bolivia, dropping a legal demand for $50 million after a revolt over privatizing water services in the city of Cochabamba forced the company out of Bolivia in April 2000.

Bechtel and its chief co-investor, Abengoa of Spain, had been seeking $25 million in damages and $25 million in lost profits in a case filed before a World Bank trade court, the International Centre for Settlement of Investment Disputes (ICSID).

Following four years of international public protest aimed at the companies, Bechtel and Abengoa agreed to abandon their case for a token payment.

Quote
"Multinational corporations want to turn everything into a market," said Oscar Olivera, a leader in the Bolivian water revolt. "For indigenous people water is not a commodity, it is a common good. For Bolivia, this retreat by Bechtel means that the rights of the people are undeniable."


In 1997, the World Bank made privatization of the public water system of Bolivia’s third largest city, Cochabamba,

a condition of the country receiving further aid for water development.

That led, in September 1999, to a 40 year concession granted to a company led by Bechtel in a process with just one bidder. Within weeks of taking over the city’s water, Bechtel’s Bolivian company, Aguas del Tunari, raised rates by more than 50 percent and in some cases even higher.

The water price hikes were met with angry public protest. Cochabamba, a city of about 500,000 people, was shut down by general strikes three times.

In an effort to protect the Bechtel contract, the Bolivian government declared a state of martial law and began arresting protest leaders at their homes in the middle of the night.



In the case of Ecuador, thousands showed up to protest the corporate takeover of their innate right to use the water that falls upon their land. In some ways, what is happening in Oregon and other Western states is even worse than the privatization led by corporations like Bechtel.

Not only are resources and populations being exploited for financial gain, but as Mike Adams correctly points out for NaturalNews: sunlight and air also fall on your land, so where will this end if people don't stand up in defense of their most basic rights?

It is the very spirit of American ownership of private property and the right to self-determination that are being threatened. The ideology of collectivism is seeking in myriad ways to upend the foundation of America and criminalize independence. Hat's off to Harrington who embodies the spirit of true freedom and vows never to end the fight if his rights continue to get trampled.

Quote
“When something is wrong, you just, as an American citizen, you have to put your foot down and say, ‘This is wrong; you just can’t take away anymore of my rights and from here on in, I’m going to fight it.”

There are several lines in the sand that should not be crossed within any country claiming to be rooted in freedom.


Revolt has happened in other nations subjected to the same level of tyranny who recognized that even without an American Constitution, this is a human rights issue that in fact has no boundaries.

The words of water criminal Gary Harrington ring clear that we'd do well to stand our ground on fundamental issues, unless we wish to give away our spirit along with our land:

"They’ve just gotten to be big bullies and if you just lay over and die and give up, that just makes them bigger bullies. So, we as Americans, we need to stand on our constitutional rights, on our rights as citizens and hang tough. This is a good country, we’ll prevail."


Main source for this article: Rainwater Crimes: Man Gets Jail & Fines For Collecting On His Own Land (http://cnsnews.com/news/article/oregon-man-sentenced-30-days-jail-collecting-rainwater-his-property)

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Title: Re: Water Wars
Post by: petrus4 on August 03, 2012, 09:27:58 am
It is the very spirit of American ownership of private property and the right to self-determination that are being threatened. The ideology of collectivism is seeking in myriad ways to upend the foundation of America and criminalize independence.

This is not about collectivism.  The supposed collectivist/individualist conflict is a false dichotomy, and it will be used against you by the people who wish to do these sorts of things, if you let it.  When the South Americans fought the Bechtel contract, there were 500,000.  Were they not a collective?

So that is a positive form of collectivism.  There are positive forms of individualism as well; but Americans in particular need to start realising that the corporations, and those involved with them, are not "individualists," to the degree that you think.  What do you think a cartel is?  What do you think a conspiracy is?  What do you think the Bilderberg Group are?

They are people who collaborate and work as part of a conspiracy, to do things which serve their own interests, to the detriment of everyone else.  They well know the value of working together as a group; the entire reason why they try and tell you that individualism is the only form of virtue, is precisely so that you can be rendered powerless by it.

Understand; the cabal have two sets of rules.  One for them, and one for us.  Belief in so-called rugged individualism, is meant for you; they don't believe a word of that.  They know that it is suicidal.  So they have trained you to think in a certain way, while they think in a different manner entirely.  They use valid principles for destructive ends.  We start winning when we likewise use said valid principles ourselves, but for positive, mutually beneficial ends.
Title: Re: Water Wars
Post by: thorfourwinds on September 02, 2015, 07:53:43 pm
(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10005/where_does_your_food_come_from.jpg)


California supplies 50%
of the produce for the United States

The Federal government has told the CA farmers they will get ZERO water this year from the Sierra Mountains, the first time in history this has ever happened.


State of the Farm and Water Report for California; “It’s Just Not There.” (http://tabublog.com/2014/02/22/state-of-the-farm-and-water-report-for-california-its-just-not-there/)

February 22, 2014
California supplies 50% of the food for the United States. The California farms that supply much of the nation’s produce are literally running out of water.

Farms use about 80 percent (http://www.salon.com/2014/02/19/it_could_last_decades_5_shocking_facts_about_californias_drought_partner/) of the state's "developed water," or water that's moved from its natural source to other areas via pipes and aqueducts.

Maps indicate (http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/02/wheres-californias-water-going) that the areas of California hardest (http://www.offthegridnews.com/current-events/solar-power-preventing-blackouts-during-california-drought/) hit by the mega-drought are those that grow a large percentage of America’s food.

Those regions include Monterey County, which produced nearly half of the lettuce and broccoli grown in the United States in 2012.

It’s not just vegetables that will be affected; nuts and fruits will be hit just as hard or harder.

“There will be thousands of acres of fruit and nut trees that will die this year because of lack of water,” David Sunding, a professor of natural resources at the University of California at Berkley, told the San Jose Mercury News. “The reduction in yield will drive up prices.”

The produce grown in the Golden State includes:

   •   95 percent of America’s broccoli crop
   •   90 percent of its tomatoes
   •   91 percent of its grapes
   •   74 percent of its lettuce
   •   99 percent of its walnuts
   •   99 percent of its almonds
   •   98 percent of its pistachios
   •   99 percent of its walnuts
   •   92 percent  of strawberries


Dear Reader, just how much do you depend on this (radioactive) produce from California in Your daily diet?



(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10005/Final-gallons-per-food-580.jpg)

California produces 80 percent of the world’s almonds and areas like the Westlands Water District have made the switch from cotton to almonds to cash in on high demand. “But growing almonds in an arid climate requires lots of water,” writes Joaquin Palomino (http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/ArticleArchives?author=3172692) of the East Bay Express.

Quote
“In fact, Westlands’ almond orchards suck up nearly 100 billion gallons of water a year. Cotton, by contrast, needs 40 percent less water per acre, and tomatoes require about half as much water as almonds.  Also, unlike cotton and tomatoes, almonds are a ‘permanent’ crop, meaning the land they’re grown on can’t lie fallow when water is scarce.”


(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10005/hay_exports_chart.JPG)


Almonds aren’t the only thirsty crop. The one that’s getting the most water (http://www.arb.ca.gov/fuels/lcfs/workgroups/lcfssustain/hanson.pdf) in California is alfalfa and not all of it will be feeding the state’s dairy and meat industries, a lot of it is shipped overseas. Ag web reports (http://www.agweb.com/article/baled_to_ship_business_is_booming_for_hay_exporters__NAA_Catherine_Merlo/) that, “Exports of U.S. hay grew to more than 3.7 million tons in 2012, up sharply from 2.5 million in 2008.”
?

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10005/china_ship_line_640.jpg)


Container ships that arrive from Asia with electronics and other consumer goods are loaded for the return trip with compressed bales of hay grown in the Western US in some of the driest states in the country — Arizona, California, Idaho, Nevada, Oregon, Utah and Washington.


(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10005/BALED_TO_SHIP_1.JPG)
ACX was recently named the leading US exporter of alfalfa and grass hay for the third straight year by the Journal of Commerce. To help meet the growing overseas demand for hay, the company opened a facility in Goldsboro, NC, in 2012. (credit CATHERINE MERLO)


Quote
“In specific regions, particularly the Imperial Valley of California, and the Columbia basin of Washington-Oregon, the percentage of alfalfa and grassy hays exported may be over 50% of production,” reported the UC Cooperative Extension’s Alfalfa and Forage News.

However,

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10005/hay_china_alfalfa_gmo_contaminated.png)


China Rejects Hay Exports Due to GM Alfalfa Contamination | Natural Society (http://naturalsociety.com/gm-alfalfa-found-hay-exports-china/)

10 April 2014
The Chinese used to be quite confident that their hay was GMO free, but all that is about to change. Hay exported to the country from the US is currently in quarantine due to the detection of GMO traits, specifically of genetically modified alfalfa, according to a USDA spokesperson.

This isn’t a singular occurrence, either. Last year, a Washington State grower’s hay was rejected after it tested positive for GMO alfalfa. This doesn’t sit well with China, since all imported hay is supposed to be GMO-free. If the trend continues, they could boycott all US grown hay completely.

They aren’t willing to feed their livestock hay grown with Round Up Ready traits – yet for some reason, many US farmers still are.

Chinese officials are already preparing to implement more stringent testing thresholds to keep the GM alfalfa out of their imports.


(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10005/china_turns_to_ukraine.jpg)

A USDA representative, who declined to be identified, said:

“We understand that China has recently increased the frequency of its GE (genetically engineered) testing and has a zero tolerance for unapproved biotech traits.”

According to the spokesperson, the USDA has been working with authorities and the U.S. alfalfa industry to find out why ‘certified’ alfalfa has GM traits and to come to an agreement.

However, many industry officials are frustrated by the lack of information and the slow progress related to changing GMO testing sensitivity in hay, says Harry Kreeft, plant pathologist and nematologist with Western Laboratories in Parma, ID who conducts GMO and other testing for the Ag industry:

“Right now, everybody is absolutely grabbing at the dark,” explains Kreeft, “We don’t get any information from the USDA. We don’t get any information from the Chinese side. Our customers have no clue what’s going on.”


(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10005/GM_Alfalfa.jpg)


The current threshold of acceptance is 5% GMO by Chinese importers, but this could be tightened to 0.2%, and growers would be hard pressed to meet these standards with unintended cross-pollination along with the shady practices of GM companies who often grow ‘test’ fields of GM crops without regulatory approval.

The Chinese need hay, but they may look to other sources if they can’t rely on the US to provide exports that are GM-free. After all, we know China isn’t afraid to reject GMOs from the US (http://naturalsociety.com/china-halts-u-s-grain-imports/) or even burn shipment of GMO crops (http://naturalsociety.com/china-incinerates-3-us-shipments-of-genetically-modified-corn/) – the country has done it on multiple occasions.
Title: Re: Water Wars
Post by: thorfourwinds on January 16, 2017, 10:20:39 am
World War Water (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIHVYVTVSHE)
R Wayne Steiger
Published on Jan 16, 2017

We worry about things in space, we debate and hate over ideas of another planet or star against each other, we blast each other with our beliefs religious and all others. Yet while we spend our attention on these things, all the while the drumbeat of WAR goes on and is getting louder and WAR is coming.

Water shortages, food shortages, climate change and these are but the top three of an ever growing list of why war is enviable. In this video I show why it does not matter what we as a Species do, we cannot stop this, we invented it, we manufactured it and we have know it is coming. There are no simple answers or solutions and sadly there appears that a gleaming is upon our species.

Yet do I hope that we can awaken as many as possible and that future generations will possess the knowledge and understandings of our mistakes to their well being.

We have really messed this up people...
Title: Re: Water Wars
Post by: thorfourwinds on May 05, 2019, 04:34:11 pm
(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10005/tap_water.png)


REPORT: Nearly All Of U.S. Drinking Water Contaminated With Cancer Causing Chemicals (http://report-us-drinking-water-contaminated-cancer-causing-chemicals.html)

By Aaron Kesel

The Environmental Working Group, a non-profit research organization environmental watchdog, released a searchable database Thursday that shows almost 50,000 public water systems in the U.S. are contaminated with dozens of harmful chemicals.

Some of the chemicals found in your drinking water include – arsenic, hexavalent chromium, radiation, chloroform, perfluorooctanoic acid, Bromodichloromethane, Dichloroacetic acid, Barium, and Uranium; and that’s just scratching the surface of the 250-plus contaminants the group discovered.

EWG researchers spent the last two years collecting data from independent state agencies and the EPA for drinking water tests conducted from 2010 to 2015 by 48,712 water utilities in all 50 states and the District of Columbia. Researchers tested the utilities for approximately 500 different contaminants, finding a whopping 267 contaminations of Americans’ water supplies.

EWG’s database is an interactive map where you can click on each state and review their test results.

In the results are listed contaminants found above health guidelines and above legal limits.

A subsequent report released with the database noted that contaminants detected in the nation’s tap water included:

   ▪   93 linked to an increased risk of cancer. More than 40,000 water systems had detections of known or likely carcinogens exceeding established federal or state health guidelines – levels that pose minimal but real health risks, but are not legally enforceable.

   ▪   78 associated with brain and nervous system damage.

   ▪   63 connected to developmental harm to children or fetuses.

   ▪   45 linked to hormone disruption.

   ▪   38 that may cause fertility problems.

   ▪   Chromium-6, made notorious by the film “Erin Brockovich.” This carcinogen, for which there are no federal regulations, was detected in the drinking water supplies serving 250 million Americans in all 50 states.

   ▪   1,4-Dioxane, an unregulated compound that contaminates tap water supplies for 8.5 million people in 27 states at levels above those the EPA considers to pose a minimal cancer risk.

   ▪   Nitrate, chemical from animal waste or agricultural fertilizers, was detected in more than 1,800 water systems in 2015, serving 7 million people in 48 states above the level that research by the National Cancer Institute shows increases the risk of cancer – a level just half of the federal government’s legal limit for nitrate in drinking water.

Legal is not safe,” argued Nneka Leiba, director of Healthy Living Science at the EWG. “In many cases, it’s far from safe.”

Overall, the organization found more than 250 million Americans are drinking water with “unsafe” levels of various contaminants.

A 2008 study by the National Toxicology Program found that chromium-6 in drinking water caused cancer in rats and mice that were exposed to the chemical.

EWG is urging consumers to use a drinking water filter to reduce the level of chemical intake in the human body. They’re also pressing the EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) to update their rules on chemical contaminants found in drinking water that “can pose what scientists say are serious health risks – and still be legal.”

“Americans deserve the fullest picture possible of what’s in their tap water,” EWG President Ken Cook said. “But they won’t get that information from the government or, in many cases, from their utilities. The only place they’ll find that is EWG’s drinking water report.”

“Just because your tap water gets a passing grade from the government doesn’t always mean it’s safe,” Cook added. “It’s time to stop basing environmental regulations on political or economic compromises, and instead listen to what scientists say about the long-term effects of toxic chemicals and empower Americans to protect themselves from pollutants even as they demand the protective action they deserve from government.”

It’s been 20 years since the EPA last passed any new drinking water regulations. Regardless, it’s clear that municipalities have not been following them.

If you’re in the U.S. you can check your own water supply by visiting the Tap Water Database (https://www.ewg.org/tapwater/index.php#.WXjV8NPytTZ), which allows anyone in the U.S. to enter their zip code or local utility’s name and find out what’s lurking in their local water supply.

Aaron Kesel writes for Activist Post. Follow us at Twitter and Steemit. This article is Creative Commons and can be republished in full with attribution.


(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/04images/Bluebird/lg50aa500a.gif)

With great respect
thorfourwinds/rabunopsec
Peace Love Light
Hec'el oinipikte (That we may live)
Mni Wiconi, (Water Is Life)
Pidamiyapi (Thank You in Lakota)
Title: Re: Water Wars
Post by: Irene on May 13, 2019, 12:23:20 pm
Thor, thanks for your posts on this issue. The water crisis is very serious. People really have no idea regarding the level of contaminants in supposedly clean water.
Title: Re: Water Wars
Post by: WhatTheHey on May 14, 2019, 01:10:09 pm
    Water, water everywhere and not a drop that's fit to drink.  The water situation in Ca. is nearly always having battles fought over it in someway.  But at least the drought is (for now) gone.   Yet the issue of water fit to consume is ongoing for sure, both in city systems and private wells.  California has an average of about 300 PPM (Parts Per Million).  Of course the number changes dramatically from location to location do to proximity to agricultural areas and alike as well as the systems used by suppliers. 
    It's unsafe to drink water from just about any kind of source these days.   It is for this reason I have been using water filters for all water we consume for the last 25 years.  I have been using survival type filters most often, the kind you can literally drink from a gutter with and its safe.  But they are expensive and limiting in amounts that are readily available.  So I have tested some of the filters made for household use.  Like Britta, Pur and such and have found by use and testing that ZeroWater out does all but the expensive survival type filters.  I used a PPM testing unit and marked my well water at 108 PPM.  I ran this 108 PPM water through a Pur filter and there was literally no change.  108 in 108 out.  Next up I did Britta, same water 108 PPM and it came out a 107 PPM.  So then I went on to try ZeroWater and I was stunned when the same 108 PPM water came out at 0 PPM.  https://www.secureaqua.com/zero-water-vs-brita-vs-pur/
   It works very well and even passes the freeze test.  When water is very filter or distilled and then is frozen at a temperature like that in a food storage freezer of 0° F (-18° C).  It ruptures as it freezes in a unstable way, creating a spike the grows up out of the rupture.  The lack of impurities in the water gives less catalytic activation for the alignment action of crystallization. This is a simplified explanation of this unique happening, it's much more complicated but much fun to see if your a tech geek like me.    https://medium.com/dialogue-and-discourse/ice-spikes-ec9c88880d04

   Here are some pictures of this happening ..https://www.its.caltech.edu/~atomic/snowcrystals/icespikes/icespike.jpg   8)

   If you filter your drinking water ZeroWater is a good product that works well. The filters also last longer then the other two I tested.
   
   Have a wonderful day and drink clean pure water whenever possible.  Pack some small survival type filters in your car!   ;)
Title: Re: Water Wars
Post by: ArMaP on May 14, 2019, 02:17:21 pm
California has an average of about 300 PPM (Parts Per Million).
Parts per million of what?
Title: Re: Water Wars
Post by: zorgon on May 14, 2019, 07:27:08 pm
The Complicated Question of Drugs in the Water

Pharmaceuticals—inescapable in medicine—are increasingly prevalent in our drinking water. But is that a problem?

Drugs in Our Water?

In 1999, Christian Daughton, an environmental chemist from the Environmental Protection Agency, wrote a paper along with Thomas Ternes of ESWE-Institute for Water Research and Water Technology in Germany that called attention to the persistence of pharmaceuticals in the freshwater cycle. It was one of the first journal articles on the topic to get widespread attention, and its publication sparked a flurry of research and media coverage, including an Associated Press series that surveyed water quality in a handful of cities.

“There’s been a fair amount of work done in both the U.S. and Canada as well as Europe that documents [pharmaceuticals] in wastewater and in water,” says Joanna Wilson , a biologist at McMaster University in Ontario, Canada. She studies how drugs in the water affect zebrafish, a tiny freshwater fish in the minnow family. More recent data shows that the same types of compounds are in drinking water. One study found several pharmaceuticals in treated tap water, including atenolol (a beta-blocker), carbamazepine (an anticonvulsant), gemfibrozil (an antilipidemic), meprobamate (an antianxiety medication), and phenytoin (an anticonvulsant). The concentrations of these compounds were very low, usually less than 10 nanograms per liter, which is parts per trillion. For reference, one part per trillion is equivalent to about one second in 64 years.

(https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/media/images/pill-in-water.width-800.jpg)

Numerous studies have found low concentrations of pharmaceutical compounds in drinking water.
We know that if these compounds are in surface water, and the surface water is used for drinking water, then the compounds will be in drinking water as well, Wilson says. But how do they get there in the first place? Obviously, the answer is through humans, and we put pharmaceuticals into the water in two basic ways.

The first is through excretion. “When a drug is ingested, it’s metabolized and what eventually is excreted is the portion of the original parent drug that doesn’t get metabolized, along with metabolites, which may have biological activity of their own,” says Christian Daughton , an environmental chemist from the Environmental Protection Agency.

The amount that our bodies break down drugs varies widely, from drug to drug and even from person to person. For many drugs, Daughton says, about 90% of the drug is metabolized. Others aren’t metabolized as much, and a lot of the parent compound is excreted. The undigested drugs and metabolites, the digested drugs, are either removed from the body as waste or sweat. These are either flushed down toilets are go down the drain in our showers.

It’s completely unknown how much of their medications people are still dumping down the drain.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/pharmaceuticals-in-the-water/
Title: Re: Water Wars
Post by: The Seeker on May 14, 2019, 08:53:38 pm
Our water situation is indeed one that needs to be focused on and sadly the majority of the population is totally unaware just how serious this is...

@WTH: thanks for posting your filter test results, I am currently using a Pur filtration system and have been considering researching a Zerowater system since I am on a municipal water system here(and I really don't like it)

Zorgon, the statement that atenolol is being found in the water gives me pause; I take atenolol every day, have for years, to help counter my enforced hyper-tension, and it is a beta blocker which supposedly makes the heart beat slow and steady; perhaps this is one of the reasons that people are being diagnosed as having too slow a heart beat without being on any kind of meds...

 ::)
Title: Re: Water Wars
Post by: WhatTheHey on May 15, 2019, 09:55:06 am
Parts per million of what?
  This would depend on where you are ArMap.  There are many types of contaminates in the waters and they will vary from location to location depending mostly on whats done in that particular area, as I mentioned before if you live near agricultural fields and such you may have a % of pesticides.  If your near a mine you could have leaching chemicals or what have you.  Then there is the fact that the location of your water treatment plant also makes a difference as to what may be in your city water.  So basically where you are and what is going on in that area will tell the story of whats in your water.  The list of possibilities is large.

Our water situation is indeed one that needs to be focused on and sadly the majority of the population is totally unaware just how serious this is...

@WTH: thanks for posting your filter test results, I am currently using a Pur filtration system and have been considering researching a Zerowater system since I am on a municipal water system here(and I really don't like it)

Zorgon, the statement that atenolol is being found in the water gives me pause; I take atenolol every day, have for years, to help counter my enforced hyper-tension, and it is a beta blocker which supposedly makes the heart beat slow and steady; perhaps this is one of the reasons that people are being diagnosed as having too slow a heart beat without being on any kind of meds...

 ::)

   Hey Seeker glad I can help, let me know what you think if you try ZeroWater.  I bet you'll be happy!  It does work.   ;)

 
Title: Re: Water Wars
Post by: ArMaP on May 15, 2019, 02:36:48 pm
The list of possibilities is large.
And that's why I think just saying that the water has xxx PPM is meaningless, as it could be of something completely innocuous or something very bad.
Title: Re: Water Wars
Post by: WhatTheHey on May 16, 2019, 03:49:54 pm
And that's why I think just saying that the water has xxx PPM is meaningless, as it could be of something completely innocuous or something very bad.
   So it seems you don't understand why an average is used.   The average # is used because of the FACT that the nature of the PPM in your specific areas water is directly inline with your location as stated before.   Further more the number being stated as an average is because there are so many variables, to list just the harmful ones would be ridiculous because it still only applies to a certain area.   In fact you can't even list them without applying a specific location within the state because it varies so much, in one place you have pesticide contamination while other places have no pesticides but do have other chemicals.  So when talking about an entire state you must use an average, OR list every location there in with lists of data referring to the contaminates found in that specific area.   Not here ...lol ::)
   If a person wants to find there specific water content broken down, there are web sites and services that do that info for most specific areas.
Title: Re: Water Wars
Post by: ArMaP on May 16, 2019, 04:26:05 pm
   So it seems you don't understand why an average is used.
I understand why is used, but when used like that makes the information useless. It's like saying that there are 1000 registered criminals in the state without stating what crimes they committed.
If they are killers we have one situation, if they are burglars it's a different situation, if they are drug users is another.

PS: When I read something that is trying to pass as a scientific text I expect to see it written as such.
Title: Re: Water Wars
Post by: WhatTheHey on May 16, 2019, 05:00:08 pm
I understand why is used, but when used like that makes the information useless. It's like saying that there are 1000 registered criminals in the state without stating what crimes they committed.
If they are killers we have one situation, if they are burglars it's a different situation, if they are drug users is another.

PS: When I read something that is trying to pass as a scientific text I expect to see it written as such.

   Your just unable to understand ......sorry you don't have the ability to understand why an average is used.

P.S.  YOU ARE ALWAYS TRYING TO START CRAP LIKE THIS, IT JUST MAKES YOU LOOK LIKE AN ASS! JUST SO YOU KNOW.....LOL
Title: Re: Water Wars
Post by: ArMaP on May 16, 2019, 05:50:53 pm
I see you are not able to understand my point of view.

And I'm not trying to start any thing, just posting my opinion, like everyone else.
Title: Re: Water Wars
Post by: WhatTheHey on May 16, 2019, 08:06:18 pm
 :)  Well the post was actually about using ZeroWater to attain better quality drinking water not this pointless argument, but I hope this helps.......  "The arithmetic mean (or mean or average), x ¯ {\displaystyle {\bar {x}}} {\bar {x}} (read x {\displaystyle x} x bar), is the mean of the n {\displaystyle n} n values x 1 , x 2 , … , x n {\displaystyle x_{1},x_{2},\ldots ,x_{n}} x_{1},x_{2},\ldots ,x_{n}.[2]

The arithmetic mean is the most commonly used and readily understood measure of central tendency in a data set. In statistics, the term average refers to any of the measures of central tendency. The arithmetic mean of a set of observed data is defined as being equal to the sum of the numerical values of each and every observation divided by the total number of observations. Symbolically, if we have a data set consisting of the values a 1 , a 2 , … , a n {\displaystyle a_{1},a_{2},\ldots ,a_{n}} a_{1},a_{2},\ldots ,a_{n}, then the arithmetic mean A {\displaystyle A} A is defined by the formula:

    A = 1 n ∑ i = 1 n a i = a 1 + a 2 + ⋯ + a n n {\displaystyle A={\frac {1}{n}}\sum _{i=1}^{n}a_{i}={\frac {a_{1}+a_{2}+\cdots +a_{n}}{n}}} {\displaystyle A={\frac {1}{n}}\sum _{i=1}^{n}a_{i}={\frac {a_{1}+a_{2}+\cdots +a_{n}}{n}}}"   From Wikipedia  ;) ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arithmetic_mean

    In this case the mean calculation refers to the PPM or "hard water" numbers of the various and many different sources Ca. waters.  An average applies beautify in the information pertaining to a whole state and its overall PPM count.  Using averages allows for a summery of overall information to be applied.   One can not say that a states PPM water count is any one specific number when there are so many various numbers within the state as a whole.  Here it may be 122 PPM 30 miles away it may be 288 or whatever, neither having the same % of or types of contaminates.   Averages just like this are used in many application and are a very common tool in mathematics just for this reason.  As anyone can see this isn't a matter of opinion and is indeed a matter of mathematical data and information. 

  Have a nice day! :)
Title: Re: Water Wars
Post by: zorgon on May 16, 2019, 08:45:32 pm
BOTTLED WATER   is it SAFE?

Well now that depends :P
People tend to TRUST the water bottle companies :D  Back when I was doing alarms systems there was a construction warehouse. Equipment cans of gas and oil, pesticides, etc.

Off to the side was a dirty little building with an open tank filtration system. Outside was a pickup truck with trailer that held a 50 gallon plastic drum that said "Spring Water" ad the location.  The filtration system was getting source water from a city water supply copper pipe...

This operation bottles several local brands like Terrible herbst, vegas Valley, and a few others.

 ::)

Just like those filling stations at stores that charge you 25 cents a gallon... they are hooked direct to the stores water supply... and I have NEVER seen anyone ever change the filter. (They might, but I have never seen then do it :P )

Safe Bottled Water Guide – Which Bottled Water Brands Are Safe?

(https://i2.wp.com/gonewmommy.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Safe-Bottled-Spring-Water.jpg)
Which bottled water brand is safe?

After I heard the news about microplastics found in almost all of bottled waters, I wanted to find a safe bottled water brand for me and my family. While researching, I realized that bottled water not only contains microplastics in it, but also plastic bottles can leach toxic chemicals such as endocrine disruptors into the water. Also , some bottled water brands source their water from municipal supply and their purification of this water makes water mineral-deficient. Many of these bottled waters are also acidic and take minerals out of our body. In addition, there is a possibility that spring or mineral water with high minerals are contaminated with harmful metals or viruses. I’ve been enjoying bottled water for a long time now but which brands are safe? In this post, I share with you my findings about bottled water brands and the brand that I chose.

BOTTLED WATER THAT IS NOT PACKAGED IN PLASTICS
 
MICROPLASTICS


In the study done by journalism organization Orb Media, 11 brands were tested  across nine countries for microplastics.  Brands include Aqua, Aquafina, Bisleri, Dasani, E-Pura, Evian, Gerolsteliner, Minaba, Nestle Pure and San Pellegrino.  93% of bottled water tested had microplastics. That means  almost all bottled water contained microplastics. Amount of microplastics found in the bottle differed even within the same brands.  Some bottles of Bisleri and E-Pura showed no micro plastics, however, when they were purchased elsewhere, they contained microplastics. Other brands were the same. While they contained small amount of microplastics when they were purchased at one location, large amount of microplastics were found when they were  purchased elsewhere. This could mean all bottled water has microplastics in the water. Even within same brands, some will contain it and some will not. We just don’t know which bottles have it.

https://gonewmommy.com/2018/04/17/safe-bottled-water/
Title: Re: Water Wars
Post by: zorgon on May 16, 2019, 08:51:44 pm
PLASTICS LEACHING HARMFUL CHEMICALS (ANTIMONY, PHTHALATES, BISPHENOL A(BPA) OR BFLUORENE-9-BISPHENOL (BHPF)

Bottled water is packaged in plastic called polyethylene terephthalate (PET). However, this plastic material leaches harmful chemicals into the water. Leaching chemicals include antimony, phthalates, bisphenol A (BPA) or Bfluorene-9-bisphenol (BHPF). These chemicals will be released more and faster if the water bottles are placed in a warm or hot temperature. Also, the longer water is stored in the bottle, the more chemicals will be leached. Unfortunately, most bottled water is packaged in plastics so it is hard to avoid this problem. If you don’t want to drink bottled water, you can use filter for the tap water at home and filter water yourself. If you do drink bottled water, do not store in a warm, hot place for a long period of time. Another option is to buy bottled water packaged in glass or paper instead of plastic.

Bottled water that is packaged in glass or paper is as follows. (However, there are other factors to be considered other than packaging to choose safe bottled water so please read on!)

Water Packaged In Glass
Voss Artesian Sparkling Water
Mountain Valley Spring Water
Eska Water
Frank Water
Perrier
S. Pellegrino

Water Packaged In Paper
Boxed Water
Just Water
Rethink Water

Perrier Recalls Its Water in U.S. After Benzene Is Found in Bottles
By GEORGE JAMESFEB. 10, 1990


Quote
The company that made bottled mineral water chic is voluntarily recalling its entire inventory of Perrier from store shelves throughout the United States after tests showed the presence of the chemical benzene in a small sample of bottles.

The impurity was discovered in North Carolina by county officials who so prized the purity of Perrier that they used it as a standard in tests of other water supplies.

https://www.nytimes.com/1990/02/10/us/perrier-recalls-its-water-in-us-after-benzene-is-found-in-bottles.html

BOTTLED WATER WITH A SAFE PH LEVEL

The neutral pH level of water is 7. Ideal pH of water should be between 6.5 ~ 8.5 which is close to the pH level our bodies naturally maintain. (7.35 to 7.45.) PH water that is too acidic or alkaline can damage our health. Some popular brands such as Dasani and Aquafina, have a pH of 5 which is too acidic.  Beverages such as Gatorade and Vitamin Water also have pH level that is too low, 3.5 and 3.4.

Here are some brands that fall into neutral pH range. If you want to find more about what water pH levels are and how acidic & alkaline water affect health, please read my previous post, Safe Bottled Water Guides: How Bottled Water Can Be Toxic.

Smart Water: 6.5, +296
Great Value (Walmart): 6.5, +380
Gerber Pure Water: 6.5, +297
Arrowhead: 6.83, +360
Evian: 7.0, +350
Volvic: 7.0
Zephyrhills: 7.5
Absopure: 7.5,+281
Fiji: 7.5, +274
Super Chill: 7.5, +2
Evamor: 8.071, +174
Real Water: 8.0, -60 (Negative ORP!)
Ice CanyonSpring water from CVS pharmacy: 7.5
Icelandic Spring water from Iceland: 8.0
Ice Mountain Natural Spring Water: 6.5,  +302
Frontier Springs: 6.5
Amway Perfect Water: 7.2, +250
San Pellegrino: 7.7
Mountain Valley Spring Water: 7.8
Eska Water: 7.8
Just Water: 8.0

* I have also put ORP (Oxidation-Reduction Potential) number after water’s pH level. ORP measures the cleanliness of the water and its ability to break down contaminants. The higher the reading, the more oxidizing water is. I left it blank if I didn’t have an ORP number available. (What is ORP?)

*San Pellegrino, Mountain Valley Spring Water, Eska Water and Just Water which are not packaged in plastic bottles, have pH level between 7 and 8. However, quality of water also depends on its source and treatment it receives.  I will talk about that next.

GOOD QUALITY BOTTLED WATER BASED ON SOURCE AND TREATMENT

Bottled water can be naturally sourced from glaciers, lakes and springs. It is also sourced from public water such as municipal supply. When water is sourced, it may or may not go through filtration or purifying process before getting bottled to remove contaminants or chemicals. Let’s take a look at types of water based on its source and treatment. I have categorized bottled water as  following:  Water with natural minerals and water without natural minerals.

1. WATER WITH NATURAL MINERALS
MINERAL WATER


The U.S. Food and Drug Administration classifies mineral water as water coming from an underground source and containing at least 250 parts per million total dissolved solids. Minerals must come from the source and can not be added later. Mineral water could be natural spring water or artesian well water.

SPRING WATER

Spring water is surface water that come naturally from the ground of the earth. It is filtered naturally through layers of sand and rock formations as it moves through an underground aquifer which is contamination-free. It may or may not be filtered or purified artificially before getting bottled. According to U.S. Food & Drug Administration (FDA), spring water must be collected only at the spring or through a borehole that taps the underground formation feeding the spring. If water is collected through a borehole, it must have the same quality as water collected at the spring. If spring water goes through purification process, the water will be classified as purified water, not spring water. (Bottled Water Everywhere: Keeping it Safe).

Spring water contains natural minerals that are healthy for our body unlike tap water or treated water. Minerals such as calcium, lithium and magnesium are essential minerals we can get from water. On top of this healthy benefits, spring water doesn’t have harmful chemicals that tap water contains. However, spring water can be contaminated from human or animal waste, storm water runoff, improperly treated septic and sewage discharges and wildlife. Groundwater may be pure but when the groundwater is on its way to the surface, it can become contaminated. The quality of spring water can be vary greatly depending on a spring.

Some spring water can be safe to drink without any treatment while some may have contaminants. Spring water is generally more pricier than other types of bottled water since it is rich in natural minerals that are healthy. (Spring water not as pure as you may think)

Examples of spring water includes as follows.

Evian – Derived from springs in France, naturally filtered
Icelandic – Spring water from Iceland, naturally filtered
Eternal – Filtered, treated spring water
Volvic – Filtered, treated spring water
Zephyrhills – Filtered, treated spring water
Absopure– Filtered, treated spring water
San Pellegrino – carbonated water derived from natural springs at the foothills of the Italian Alps near Bergamo (Lombardy)

https://gonewmommy.com/2018/04/17/safe-bottled-water/

Radioactive Spring

Back in Canada, hunting mineral specimens on an old Uranium Mine dump... there was a beautiful crystal clear spring on the hill. The "hill" was the old mine dump.  I saw a fellow rockhound go up to that spring and fill a canteen.  Walked over and said "What are you doing? You do realize that this is a Uranium Mine?"  He looked shocked at his stupidity :P and poured out that water.  A few months later the spring was sealed off.
So yeah just because it is a spring doesn't mean the source water is safe

Title: Re: Water Wars
Post by: zorgon on May 16, 2019, 09:31:30 pm
Spring Water I like

Evian: Evian mineral water is from French Alps where a natural filter developed over several ice ages. The water source is protected under a fortress of geological layers built up by glaciers 30,000 years ago, it slowly travels through a natural glacial sand filter. Water is bottled at the source and also samples are taken every day to ensure quality.

Mineral content of bottled water is one of the most important part of water quality.  Evian has the highest mineral content, lowest turbidity (how clear water is  the lower number the better), highest conductivity/ but Evian has the highest nitrite and nitrate contamination compared to other brands. Contamination found in Evian water is not health threatening to immune competent people. However, infants, children, elderly, cancer, transplant, HIV patients should not drink water with Nitrite or Nitrate. Evian also has the highest barium compared to other brands. However, nitrite, nitrate and barium Evian contain are all well under federal maximum contaminant level. (Heavy Metals detected  In Bottled Spring Water.) (A Guide To Healthy Drinking Water)

*You can get Evian Water in a glass bottle if you want to avoid plastic.

*Evian Water pH level: 7.0

ALTESIAN WELL WATER

Artesian well water is an underground water that doesn’t rise to the surface naturally so it is collected from a well that taps an aquifer. Water is tapped by artesian pressure in the aquifer pushing water above the level of the aquifer.

Examples of Artesian Water is as follows.
Fiji Water – Derived from springs in Fiji, naturally filtered

Artesian Water I like

Fiji Water: Fiji Water comes from an artesian aquifer in Viti Levu of Fiji. The water slowly filters through layers of volcanic rock, slowly gathering the natural minerals and electrolytes. The water is bottled at the source.

Back in 2006, Fiji water had the highest arsenic level found in their water compared to other brands in the study conducted by the City of Cleveland. However, in the 2015 test of Fiji Water bottled in November 2014, there was no arsenic found above FDA limits. FDA limit is 10micrograms per litre where as arsenic level found in Fiji water was only 1.2 microgram per liter.

*There is no glass bottle version of Fiji Water at the moment.

*Fiji Water pH level: 7.5

WELL WATER

Well water is acquired by a hole drilled in to the ground to tap into an aquifer.

Voss – Well water from Norway
Evamor – Filtered well water
Perrier – Filtered, Carbonated water derived from wells

CARBONATED WATER

Carbonated water also known as sparkling water has  carbon dioxide added in the water. It may be treated beyond carbonation to purify the water to be safe. Some natural sparkling mineral waters which are sourced naturally from a mineral spring, may be carbonated as well. Some examples include Perrier and San Pellegrino and they contain natural minerals and sulphur in their water. Since carbon dioxide and water react chemically make carbonic acid, there is a concern that sparkling water can damage tooth enamel. However, studies show that only when sugar is added to the water, it can be damaging to enamel, not when you drink plain sparkling water. Therefore, avoid drinking sparkling water that is flavored with sugar.

Carbonated water examples are as follows.
Perrier – Filtered, carbonated water derived from wells
San Pellegrino – carbonated water derived from natural springs at the foothills of the Italian Alps near Bergamo (Lombardy) They have plain sparkling water as well as flavored beverage.


Carbonated Water I like

San Pellegrino: This water is not only packaged in a glass but also contains lots of minerals in the water. San Pellegrino water if from natural springs at San Pellegrino Terme, Bergamo, Italy. I only like their plain carbonate water, not the flavored beverages since sugar can damage tooth enamel.

San Pellegrino pH Level: 7.7

https://gonewmommy.com/2018/04/17/safe-bottled-water/
Title: Re: Water Wars
Post by: zorgon on May 16, 2019, 09:44:45 pm
FILTERED WATER

If the water is not bottled at the spring but is pumped into large tanker trucks to be transported to the bottling facility, water may get contaminated on the way. Therefore, filtration may be needed.  When water is filtered, minerals can be retained rather than being killed. Filtered water goes through carbon filters or a micron filters to remove chemicals, parasites, bacteria, etc. Filtration does not remove everything like purifying water does. Therefore, filtered water can still contain dissolved inorganic contaminants and heavy met

Ozonated water is basically water that has been ozonated.  Ozone gas is used to disinfect the water instead of chlorine. It can destroy bacteria, viruses, and odors. Oxygen we breathe in ever day is O2 which has 2 atoms of oxygen. Ozone has 3 atoms of oxygen bound together (O3). Many people believe ozonated water oxygenates and detoxes our body. Some believe ozonated water has healing and therapeutic properties. Some experts say it can stop the spreading of cancer.

On the other hand, some experts say there is no scientific proof that ozonated water is beneficial. Not only that, ozone can cause harm if used and consumed in the wrong way. Cancer Tutor, the cancer treatment resource website includes drinking ozonated water as a supplemental treatment for cancer. However, they say the container the purified or spring water is in, absolutely must be made of glass.  They said that ozone will tear apart a plastic container and you will end up drinking plastic. Also, ozone is an unstable form of oxygen and they don’t last very long. It readily decays back to normal oxygen.  Cancer Tutor advised to drink ozonated water as soon as it is made because the ozone only lasts  about 10 minutes.

Whether ozonated water is beneficial to our health or not, if ozone will tear apart a plastic container and I end up drinking plastics, that is not what I want to drink.

(Drinking Ozonated Water -What Is It and How Is It Made?)

(Ozonated Water: Supplemental Treatment For Cancer)

Here are some examples of ozonated water.
Dasani – Filtered, RO, minerals added and ozonated
Great Value Walmart – Filtered, RO, minerals added and ozonated
Ice Mountain – Demineralized, filtered and ozonated

2. WATER WITHOUT NATURAL MINERALS – PURIFIED WATER

Purified water can come from any water sources such as tap water or spring water. It is purified to remove any chemicals or contaminants. When water is purified, water impurities must be removed to extremely low levels. Filtered water is not same as purified water. Purified water has less impurities than filtered water. While purified water removes all of the impurities in water, it also kills healthy minerals that our body needs. For this reason, I didn’t choose any of the purified water as my choice. Purified water includes water that is refined in one of following ways: distillation, reverse osmosis or deionization.

DISTILLED WATER – PURIFIED WATER

Distillation is different from other demineralization process such as reverse osmosis or deionization.  In the distillation process, water is boiled and condensed steam is collected. Any impurities or contaminants are left behind, however, so do minerals. S

Deer Park – Derived from springs and distilled city water
Poland Springs – Derived from springs and distilled water
Function – Distilled with minerals added
Smart water – Filtered, distilled and remineralized
Arrowhead – Derived from springs and distilled city water

REVERSE OSMOSIS WATER – PURIFIED WATER

Reverse Osmosis is a commonly used way of purifying water. According to Dr.Lawrence Wilson from L.D. Wilson Consultants, Inc., reverse osmosis makes an extremely mineral-deficient water.  He  warned that drinking mineral-deficient water such as distilled, reverse osmosis or demineralized water for  a few months will bring minerals out of the body. Therefore, many bottled water that used any of purifying  method such as reverse osmosis, distillation or demineralization is not good for your heath. (Reverse Osmosis Water – A Poor Product)
(Differences Between Drinking Water And Distilled Water)

Examples of reverse osmosis (RO) water are as follows.
Dasani – Filtered, RO, minerals added and ozonated
Great Value Walmart – Filtered, RO, minerals added and ozonated
Essentia – RO filtered, minerals added, ionized water

DEIONIZED WATER – PURIFIED WATER

Deionizing water uses ion exchange resins to remove ionized salts from the water.  Often, a term, demineralization is used interchangeably with deionization. However, deionizing water removes ionized salts and demineralization removes minerals from water. Deionized water still lacks minerals that our body needs. Therefore, long term drinking of deionized water can lead to organ damage even if minerals are coming from one’s diet. (Is It Safe To Drink Deionized Water?)

DEMINERALIZED WATER

Demineralized water goes through various filtration and chemical treatment to remove minerals and impurities. It is obtained through reverse osmosis, distillation or deionization of the water. This type of water is often used at lab when dissolved minerals can alter results.  Often, in order to get the final product with certain quality, the water will undergo several stages such as distillation, filtration, reverse osmosis.  According to World Health Organization (WHO), drinking demineralized or low mineral water has a negative health effects on us. According to their report, drinking demineralized or low mineral water not only results low intake of essential minerals our body needs such as calcium, magnesium and essential elements but also causes loss of essential minerals and elements in prepared food. It also possibly increases dietary intake of toxic metals. In addition, it has direct effect on the intestinal mucous membrane metabolism and mineral homeostasis or other body functions.
(Health Risks From Drinking Demineralized Water)

(Difference Between Purified Water and Demineralized Water)

(Health Risks From Drinking Demineralized Water)

Here are some examples of demineralized water.

Vitamin Water – Demineralized with minerals and flavors added
Propel Zero- Gatorade – Demineralized with minerals and flavours added
Ice Mountain – Demineralized, filtered and ozonated
Gerber Pure Water – Demineralized with minerals added

FINAL THOUGHTS

Spring water has lots of healthy minerals that are good for our health, however, they can get contaminated and contain heavy metals, viruses, bacterias since the water is not purified or treated. Water from some springs are safe without treatment, however, we, the consumers won’t know that for sure unless we see the test results of water especially after bottling process has been done. Purified water, on the other hand, has very low impurities and the water is very safe to drink. However, purified water filtering and purifying process such as reverses osmosis, distillation, deionization kill healthy minerals water contains. When we drink demineralized  or low mineral water for some time, water will leach minerals from our body. In addition, almost all bottled water has microplastics in water which we end up ingesting while drinking water. On top of that, almost all bottled water is packaged in plastic bottles which can leach harmful chemicals into the water. There are just too many uncertainties involved with bottled water that I can not conclude bottled water in general is absolutely safe. However, I would still liked to continue drinking bottled water for now until I find a better solution. Therefore, between all of these bottled water, I choose natural spring water such as Evian water, Fiji water, Icelandic and carbonated water such as San Pellegrino as a bottled water choice for me and my family. I will not just choose one brand but I will rotate between these four brands.

https://gonewmommy.com/2018/04/17/safe-bottled-water/
Title: Re: Water Wars
Post by: Shasta56 on May 16, 2019, 10:40:54 pm
When I was living in Oklahoma, our water came from Oolagah Reservoir.  The town of Alluwe was moved, when the reservoir was constructed.  Alluwe still had producing wells that weren't capped.  We had oil slicks floating on our tap water.  At least it never caught fire.
Title: Re: Water Wars
Post by: WhatTheHey on May 17, 2019, 09:42:37 am
When I was living in Oklahoma, our water came from Oolagah Reservoir.  The town of Alluwe was moved, when the reservoir was constructed.  Alluwe still had producing wells that weren't capped.  We had oil slicks floating on our tap water.  At least it never caught fire.

   Ewwwwww!  :o  That must have put a damper on drinking water out of the tap.   Was any effort ever made to cap the wells?   They supposedly permanently capped the well in the gulf.   Maybe they can do that there.   I imagine money may stop things short, or lack of it.  Smaller towns and cities probably wouldn't get assistance from the gov. either.   What a bummer.

BOTTLED WATER   is it SAFE?
Off to the side was a dirty little building with an open tank filtration system. Outside was a pickup truck with trailer that held a 50 gallon plastic drum that said "Spring Water" ad the location.  The filtration system was getting source water from a city water supply copper pipe...

   I believe I remember something about another Co. using tap water basically and selling it as spring water or something.  I think its happened more then this 1 time too.   I'll go look!    Here is something I had not seen and is somewhat of a surprise.  http://www.trueactivist.com/pepsi-admits-that-its-aquafina-bottled-water-is-just-tap-water-coca-colas-dasani-is-next/

   Pepsi is a big Co. too bad we can't trust them either.  Dang now I'm wondering whats in Pepsi!  ::)  Isn't it a wonderful world!  ;D  Have a nice cold one,,,,,,,or don't!!!!!!!!!!!    lol 
  Oh man, whats next!  Are they going to start bottling reclaimed wastewater and telling us it's FRESH CLEAN GREAT TASTING WATER FROM A NATURAL SOURCE.   They'll say it's a natural source because it is part of the environment. LOL
   So a good filter is a must! And don't forget to filter your bottled water as well.    LOL  Oh man!   ::)
Title: Re: Water Wars
Post by: space otter on May 17, 2019, 09:54:02 am



Quote
Oh man, whats next!  Are they going to start bottling reclaimed wastewater and telling us it's FRESH CLEAN GREAT TASTING WATER FROM A NATURAL SOURCE. 


YEP..already happening

Quote
The use of recycled water for drinking, however, is less common, largely because many people are repelled by the thought of water that’s been in our toilets going to our taps. But a few countries like Singapore, Australia and Namibia, and states such as California, Virginia and New Mexico are already drinking recycled water, demonstrating that purified wastewater can be safe and clean, and help ease water shortages.

https://blogs.ei.columbia.edu/2011/04/04/from-wastewater-to-drinking-water/
Title: Re: Water Wars
Post by: zorgon on May 17, 2019, 11:33:35 am
Toronto  1970's Ashbridges Bay Wastewater Treatment Plant

Toronto sits on Lake Ontario... that is the water supply for the city. Ashbridges Bay Wastewater Treatment Plant

Quote
The Ashbridges Bay Wastewater Treatment Plant is the city of Toronto's main sewage treatment facility, and the second largest such plant in Canada after Montreal's Jean-R. Marcotte facility. One of four plants that service the city of Toronto, it treats the wastewater produced by some 1.4 million of the city's residents and has a capacity of 818,000 cubic metres per day. Until 1999 it was officially known as the Main Treatment Plant. The plant has a 185 m (607 ft) high smokestack which is visible from most parts of the city.

The plant opened in 1910. Prior to this, Toronto's sewage flowed directly into Lake Ontario and a layer of thick sludge covered the lake to a distance of several hundred feet from shore. The lake was also the source of the city's drinking water and the pollution contributed to a major typhoid outbreak.

The plant is located on the shore of Lake Ontario at the foot of Leslie Street at Ashbridge's Bay. To the west is the Port Lands area, a once heavily industrial area that is now mostly deserted. To the north is the Leslieville neighbourhood. When the plant was built, it was on the eastern edge of the city, far away from most residents. It is now surrounded by residential areas and strenuous efforts have been made to reduce odours and pollution. Most notable was the shuttering of the plant's incinerators in 1987. An odour control study was completed in 2002 and, beginning in 2002, the area around the plant was also redesigned into a large landscaped park. In 2005, a contract was awarded to design and construct a new odour control system.

Until recently, all the sludge has been trucked off site. However, summer 2007 saw odour problems, with the Michigan landfill closed and the city removing only 6 of every 10 truckloads of sludge produced, leaving the rest in an aeration slough until autumn when agricultural applications for sludge resumed.

Back in the 70's the park around the plant was used for swimming and boating... Back then when it rained heavily, which it did regularly in Toronto :P the plant would over flow and dump raw sewage into the lake, right where people were swimming and boating. Many times I saw floating turds as we had to sail through that mess to get to open waters

So yeah Toronto been drinking recycles tap water for years
Title: Re: Water Wars
Post by: zorgon on May 17, 2019, 11:38:14 am
I see you are not able to understand my point of view.

We understand your point of view. :P Your problem is that you find it difficult to think in terms of generality.  When someone mentions xxx PPM in water, it is usually considered PPM of BAD stuff... we generally don't worry about the good stuff in water (like minerals)

Sure each specific region has it's own issues, but if we don't generalize, that would require detailed lists of everyones water source Since MOST water sources around the world are contaminated these days, one can generalize in conversation and leave it to the viewer to check specifics for their own region


Title: Re: Water Wars
Post by: WhatTheHey on May 17, 2019, 12:37:50 pm
Toronto  1970's Ashbridges Bay Wastewater Treatment Plant

Toronto sits on Lake Ontario... that is the water supply for the city. Ashbridges Bay Wastewater Treatment Plant

Back in the 70's the park around the plant was used for swimming and boating... Back then when it rained heavily, which it did regularly in Toronto :P the plant would over flow and dump raw sewage into the lake, right where people were swimming and boating. Many times I saw floating turds as we had to sail through that mess to get to open waters

So yeah Toronto been drinking recycles tap water for years
   Oh man, that brings new meaning to"WE DIDN'T CATCH CHIT" When you actually could have!   ;D  Where I grew up learning to surf where the San Gabriel River meets the sea, it would be about the same condition after a big storm.  Oh my, everything from turds to trash of all kinds.  Including, occasionally a very large objects like trees and telephone poles.   ??? :o ???  Yep we had to surf around stuff coming out with the river.  Some surfers got hurt occasionally as you can guess.  But when the storms where cranking, often there were big waves to be had too, so out we'd go!

  Thanks Zog!  8)

YEP..already happening
https://blogs.ei.columbia.edu/2011/04/04/from-wastewater-to-drinking-water/
   Thanks for the link Otter!  If only we could find a way of knowing if what these Co.s and Water Service System people tell us is truth.  It's kind of a pain having to go investigating all this stuff.  But I guess that's all we can do! Unless people change in a honorable way were stuck like this.  Ouchy!  :( :'(  Hopefully it really is safe for people to consume.  Thanks again Otter.
Title: Re: Water Wars
Post by: thorfourwinds on May 17, 2019, 05:07:20 pm
Thank you everyone for the amazing response and information!

This is what Pegasus is really about...

With great respect
thorfourwinds/rabunopsec
Peace Love Light
Hec'el oinipikte (That we may live)
Mni Wiconi, (Water Is Life)
Pidamiyapi (Thank You in Lakota)
Title: Re: Water Wars
Post by: ArMaP on May 18, 2019, 05:32:36 am
We understand your point of view. :P
The answers I got show me nobody is understanding it, so I will stop derailing the thread. :)
Title: Re: Water Wars
Post by: ArMaP on May 18, 2019, 07:46:38 am
Back on topic, I rarely drink bottled water, and a look at the results of the latest tests on our drinking water show me a pH between 6.8 and 7.3.

One thing I didn't know they measure is radiation, with measurements of alpha and beta particles and radon. All the results for those are below the detection levels, so the water I drink is not radioactive. :)

PS: the water for this city comes from underground, with sources at depths from 92 to 512 metres (301 to 1680 feet for those that do not use the International System).
Title: Re: Water Wars
Post by: Shasta56 on May 18, 2019, 04:23:36 pm
I don't think any effort was made to cap the wells around Alluwe.  I wonder now, if I was lucky not get sick from swimming in Double Creek Cove.  My current water supply comes from Aurora Reservoir, which is just south of the old Kiwry Bomb Range.  That's a Superfund site.  I think Colorado has a number of Superfund sites associated with the defense industry.  I believe  we also have a higher amount of naturally occurring radon here.