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Author Topic: Breaking News!! - Juno Probe sends back first home movies of Jupiter!!  (Read 14223 times)

Offline ArMaP

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Re: Breaking News!! - Juno Probe sends back first home movies of Jupiter!!
« Reply #60 on: April 24, 2017, 02:10:43 pm »
Vertical movement indicates magnetic field stress.
Or something with the way the images were captured, as nobody saw that movement in the last 400 years.

Offline A51Watcher

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Re: Breaking News!! - Juno Probe sends back first home movies of Jupiter!!
« Reply #61 on: April 25, 2017, 01:41:09 am »
Or something with the way the images were captured, as nobody saw that movement in the last 400 years.

Oh really. You make it sound as if we have other videos of these orbits to compare to.


Offline ArMaP

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Re: Breaking News!! - Juno Probe sends back first home movies of Jupiter!!
« Reply #62 on: April 25, 2017, 03:34:21 am »
Oh really. You make it sound as if we have other videos of these orbits to compare to.

It wasn't my intention to sound like that (and I don't think it does), my intention was to point to the fact that anyone with a good eyesight can see those moons from Earth, and that they have been followed by millions of professional and amateur astronomers for the last 400 years with the help of telescopes, and nobody recorded those jumps, something that I think would be noticed, at least since we had photography to make accurate records of their relative positions.

Also, don't forget that what we seeing is not a real video but a time-lapse video created with many individual images.

Offline biggles

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Re: Breaking News!! - Juno Probe sends back first home movies of Jupiter!!
« Reply #63 on: April 25, 2017, 05:07:38 am »
Shouldn't we take into account any movement in the earth over that time as well.
I know that I know nothing - thanks Capricorn.

Offline ArMaP

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Re: Breaking News!! - Juno Probe sends back first home movies of Jupiter!!
« Reply #64 on: April 25, 2017, 06:14:03 am »
Shouldn't we take into account any movement in the earth over that time as well.
Could you be more specific? What movement over what time?

Offline biggles

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Re: Breaking News!! - Juno Probe sends back first home movies of Jupiter!!
« Reply #65 on: April 25, 2017, 06:24:46 am »
Well doesn't the earth move a degree or so over a period of time.

I'm talking about movement of the earth in the sky, could play a part in; hell I forgot what it was now.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2017, 06:26:26 am by biggles »
I know that I know nothing - thanks Capricorn.

Offline ArMaP

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Re: Breaking News!! - Juno Probe sends back first home movies of Jupiter!!
« Reply #66 on: April 25, 2017, 08:06:12 am »
Considering the distance between Earth and Jupiter and the distance between Jupiter's moons and the closest reference points, Jupiter and the other moons, the change in position of the Earth would not be noticeable.

Also, we have other photos from several other missions (specially Voyager 1 and 2, Galileo and Cassini) that would not be affected by the Earth's movement but would notice a jump in Callisto's orbit.

Offline A51Watcher

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Re: Breaking News!! - Juno Probe sends back first home movies of Jupiter!!
« Reply #67 on: April 25, 2017, 06:11:06 pm »
It wasn't my intention to sound like that (and I don't think it does), my intention was to point to the fact that anyone with a good eyesight can see those moons from Earth, and that they have been followed by millions of professional and amateur astronomers for the last 400 years with the help of telescopes, and nobody recorded those jumps, something that I think would be noticed, at least since we had photography to make accurate records of their relative positions.

Also, don't forget that what we seeing is not a real video but a time-lapse video created with many individual images.

That's my point exactly. We need time lapse to be able to see the oscillations at all!

Looking at the orbits in real time would as useful as watching the hour hand of a clock in real time.

Time lapse is the only way you would be able to see it move.

Also the orbital movements are pretty small even with Juno's close proximity. Looking all the way from earth would make the movements look even smaller.

If the wobble was being caused by a defect in how it was filmed as you allege, we would see matching wobble in all the objects, and we do not.

Selective wobble caused by a defect on one object only is beyond the pale imo.

I'm keepin my chips on black, you are welcome to keep yours on red. In the end we will see who turns out to be correct.   



Offline The Seeker

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Re: Breaking News!! - Juno Probe sends back first home movies of Jupiter!!
« Reply #68 on: April 25, 2017, 06:17:39 pm »
I'm keepin my chips on black, you are welcome to keep yours on red. In the end we will see who turns out to be correct.
20 bucks on 13 Black, please...

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Offline ArMaP

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Re: Breaking News!! - Juno Probe sends back first home movies of Jupiter!!
« Reply #69 on: April 26, 2017, 01:21:47 am »
That's my point exactly. We need time lapse to be able to see the oscillations at all!
So you don't think that an astronomer with a telescope pointed to Callisto would notice a change in its orbit? Or that all the other probes with a camera pointing to Callisto would not record a change in position?

Quote
Also the orbital movements are pretty small even with Juno's close proximity. Looking all the way from earth would make the movements look even smaller.
If we see Callisto changing position then it means that it changed at least one pixel up or down. If we see it as being two pixels wide then it would mean it would jump approximately half its size, which would be noticeable for any one tracking it's course through the sky.

Quote
If the wobble was being caused by a defect in how it was filmed as you allege, we would see matching wobble in all the objects, and we do not.
I didn't say it was caused by a defect in how it was filmed, first of all because this was not filmed, was photographed.

Quote
I'm keepin my chips on black, you are welcome to keep yours on red. In the end we will see who turns out to be correct.
I don't gamble.

Offline A51Watcher

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Re: Breaking News!! - Juno Probe sends back first home movies of Jupiter!!
« Reply #70 on: April 26, 2017, 09:17:23 pm »
So you don't think that an astronomer with a telescope pointed to Callisto would notice a change in its orbit? Or that all the other probes with a camera pointing to Callisto would not record a change in position?

Apparently not

If we see Callisto changing position then it means that it changed at least one pixel up or down. If we see it as being two pixels wide then it would mean it would jump approximately half its size, which would be noticeable for any one tracking it's course through the sky.

Apparently no one has bothered to. How about when you took that picture of Jupiter.
Did you take another and see if the position had changed?
How about several hours and days apart?
Did you zoom in and pinpoint it's location exactly each time?

If not why not?
Everyone else does.



I didn't say it was caused by a defect in how it was filmed, first of all because this was not filmed, was photographed.

It was image captured.

It was photon recorded.

Too tired to go on.


I don't gamble.

Except when you make statements you are not 100% sure of.


And... the primary point of contention is why Callisto wobbles while Jupiter itself remains completely stationary as do all the other moons.

It does so in all fields, left, right and center.

And Callisto was not photographed separately.

They were all filmed together.  :P


 

« Last Edit: April 26, 2017, 09:44:43 pm by A51Watcher »

Offline A51Watcher

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Re: Breaking News!! - Juno Probe sends back first home movies of Jupiter!!
« Reply #71 on: April 26, 2017, 10:08:57 pm »
Apparently others have noticed.

"Orbital characteristics

Callisto orbits Jupiter at a mean distance of about 1.9 million kilometers and takes 17 days to make a complete orbit around Jupiter (and a complete rotation on its own axis).

Like other moons that orbit their primaries as closely as does Callisto, Callisto is tidally locked and keeps the same hemisphere toward Jupiter at all times.

Callisto's orbit is more eccentric than those of the other Galilean moons (yeah no foolin) (except for Europa), and is slightly inclined to Jupiter's equator.

Callisto does not resonate in its orbit with Ganymede and the other two Galilean moons; in fact its sidereal month is slightly more than twice as long as that of Ganymede.

Callisto is, however, subject to tidal stresses on account of the eccentricity of its orbit."


"Its orbit is very slightly eccentric and inclined to the Jovian equator, with the eccentricity and inclination changing quasi-periodically due to solar and planetary gravitational perturbations on a timescale of centuries.

The ranges of change are 0.0072–0.0076 and 0.20–0.60°, respectively. These orbital variations cause the axial tilt (the angle between rotational and orbital axes) to vary between 0.4 and 1.6°."

« Last Edit: April 26, 2017, 10:27:39 pm by A51Watcher »

Offline ArMaP

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Re: Breaking News!! - Juno Probe sends back first home movies of Jupiter!!
« Reply #72 on: April 27, 2017, 05:06:51 pm »
Apparently no one has bothered to. How about when you took that picture of Jupiter.
Did you take another and see if the position had changed?
How about several hours and days apart?
Did you zoom in and pinpoint it's location exactly each time?

If not why not?
I did take more than one photo, but only to have more possibilities of taking a good photo, my intention was not to study Callisto's orbit, it was only to see if that was Jupiter and it's satellites.

Quote
Everyone else does.
Really?

Quote
Except when you make statements you are not 100% sure of.
It's not the same thing.

Quote
And Callisto was not photographed separately.

They were all filmed together.  :P
True, but did you see how the camera works? The camera is fixed and the probe rotates while taking the photos, so if using a longer exposure things will become blurred vertically unless they activate a special "filter" that moves the image up or down a specific number of pixels to compensate the movement. I think the "jumping" could be related to that.

Quote
Apparently others have noticed.
They are talking about a different.

Offline A51Watcher

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Re: Breaking News!! - Juno Probe sends back first home movies of Jupiter!!
« Reply #73 on: April 27, 2017, 07:15:03 pm »
I did take more than one photo, but only to have more possibilities of taking a good photo, my intention was not to study Callisto's orbit, it was only to see if that was Jupiter and it's satellites.

Really you made it sound as if everyone for the last 400 years had meticulously been pinpointing Callisto's exact location all this time.

Really?

See above comment.

It's not the same thing.

Sure it is. If not 100% sure of your statement, you are gambling it is correct.

True, but did you see how the camera works? The camera is fixed and the probe rotates while taking the photos, so if using a longer exposure things will become blurred vertically unless they activate a special "filter" that moves the image up or down a specific number of pixels to compensate the movement. I think the "jumping" could be related to that.

Yes I saw. Maybe, but it doesn't seem likely since Callisto is the only object affected by said filtering or lack thereof.

If Jupiter were jumping around as well or the other moons, you could make a case for that.

But they don't.




They are talking about a different.


A different eccentricity? Lateral movement as opposed to vertical?

That could be. Point is - even in that article Callisto is pegged as the most eccentric of all.



I'll keep your bet on 13 red.  ;)

« Last Edit: April 27, 2017, 07:29:13 pm by A51Watcher »

Offline A51Watcher

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Re: Breaking News!! - Juno Probe sends back first home movies of Jupiter!!
« Reply #74 on: April 27, 2017, 07:32:54 pm »


Anyone know of the Nasa contact or comment page for the Juno mission?

Someone needs to ask them directly if Callisto is jumping around or if their imagery just plain sucks.

Diplomatically of course.  ;)

 

 


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