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Author Topic: I just fell further down the rabbit hole  (Read 45709 times)

Offline petrus4

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Re: I just fell further down the rabbit hole
« Reply #30 on: May 14, 2013, 02:37:22 pm »
This video has unfortunately disappeared, Amy.  Any possibility of a mirror somewhere?  Unfortunately I can't even remember the guy's name, now; although I remember it was good stuff.
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Offline undo11

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Re: I just fell further down the rabbit hole
« Reply #31 on: May 14, 2013, 06:46:32 pm »
i didn't get to see it!

as far as your commentary, petrus, that was excellent.  my view with the positions taken by gov on virtually any topic, is that they have established a line in the sand, where the dems on one side, represent the educated progressive youth, and the repubs, the older, less educated (supposedly) status quo.  this is not even remotely accurate, but they try to maintain that view in varous media forms because stereotypes are absolutely crucial for manipulation of large groups. 

for example, there are many republicans and people of faith as well, who believe ETs exist.  but if you heard one of the ET alternative shows discuss it you'd think they created ETs and only dems are invited to the party cause religious people are not progressive enough and besides, none of them believe in ETs anyway. this is simply not true. there's not a single person in my immediate family that doesn't believe in the potential existence of ETs and we are all christians.  none of us think they are demons, although we do hold that a demon could pose as an ET if it somehow managed to possess an ET.

years ago (like 20 years ago now) a guy who was big in the MUFON group, told me that there's a huge group of people of faith, particularly christians, in MUFON.  yes several of them think ETs are evil, but others, don't know yet, cause they haven't met any.  Most take their view of it from abduction accounts, where the person experincing the event claims it was a horrible experience, involving violation of their sexual organs, and other not so pleasant things, without the permission of the abductee, and by force.   naturally, those kinds of stories would lead one to think that these entities are not exactly friendly.

My position is, that it could be any number of ET groups, of various factions, and there's really no telling who is bad and who isn't, till we have more info.

If my theory regarding jesus is accurate, it's entirely possible the reason could be that he really is coming back, and tptb need to convince an awful lot of people that ET = bad news.  it's a complicated thing, too complicated from our positions and with the limited data at our disposals, to say for certain.   just like with anything else, there's likely to be good bad and somewhere inbetween, amongst ET groups as well.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2013, 06:52:06 pm by undo11 »
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Offline rdunk

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Re: I just fell further down the rabbit hole
« Reply #32 on: May 14, 2013, 07:54:59 pm »
Just hang in there undo!! At least you are on the right side of the fence, even though you still struggle with the "theory stuff". I know that you seemingly always feel led to "figure things out", and for the most part, that is a great thing. But, when it comes to all that exists physically, there can be no certain positive result achieved by the "figuring". And the reason for my saying that is because of what is said to us in Hebrews 11:3 of The Bible:

3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

So, to me, what that says to us I take to be "POSSIBLY" somewhat like what happens when you make a video game. You design stuff, create stuff, arrange stuff, hide stuff to be found, and in essence do everything possible to include every conceivable aspect of the reality for that game. Now, the life of man is certainly no game, but God has set it up to play out according to his Word. And I am certain he has everything in place for man doing just that. The truth is God has promised, and he gives his people the "earnest of the spirit in our hearts" - Hebrews 1:13-14

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

 
One thing I am certain of - I still don't know much about the actual big picture of God, but, I do believe I know "just enough". I am His, and He is mine, and He is for all that will..........!

Relative to E. T.'s, God is God, and I, as a Christian, would never intentionally limit Him, with my thinking. If E.T.'s exist fine! If they don't exist fine. If they are shown, but don't really exist, that is fine too. God is only limited by his Word.

undo, I do hope this does make a little sense to you (and others)!




Offline robomont

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Re: I just fell further down the rabbit hole
« Reply #33 on: May 14, 2013, 08:03:36 pm »
did we just get invaded by christians?
there sure has been alot of church religion jesus talk lately on pegasus.or is it just an illusion on my part?
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Offline petrus4

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Re: I just fell further down the rabbit hole
« Reply #34 on: May 14, 2013, 08:10:41 pm »
did we just get invaded by christians?
there sure has been alot of church religion jesus talk lately on pegasus.or is it just an illusion on my part?

If they're not evangelical, or constantly telling me that they think I'm the spawn of Satan, then I'm willing to tolerate Christians at this point.  Christianity is actually a much better religion than most people think; it's just that you really have to do a lot of research, and also read the non-canon Gospels in order to get the good stuff. 

I've truthfully always thought the Old Testament was cool, though; at least in parts.  Most the prophets will put you to sleep, but Solomon in particular was awesome; read Proverbs and the Song of Songs.  The Pentateuch (Genesis etc; the first five books) is also good.  Mosaic Law is worth knowing about, even if Moses made Judge Dredd look like Gandhi for the most part. 

I am not an adherent of Semitic monotheism in any form as such any more; I am particularly wary of Islam, because it is the most repressive and dehumanising of the lot.  I do, however, still consider Christianity part of my own heritage; I nearly went to seminary at one point, and spent far too much time on it in general, to be able to psychologically dismiss it completely.

I think the Vatican collapsing is going to be the best thing that ever happened to Christianity; because after that, Christianity will stop being fashionable.  That will mean that the only people who will be Christians will be those who really want it, and the scenesters will leave.  It's going to be good, and Christians will get a lot more respect than they have now, as a result of that.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2013, 08:15:01 pm by petrus4 »
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Offline Amaterasu

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Re: I just fell further down the rabbit hole
« Reply #35 on: May 14, 2013, 11:58:27 pm »
This video has unfortunately disappeared, Amy.  Any possibility of a mirror somewhere?  Unfortunately I can't even remember the guy's name, now; although I remember it was good stuff.

Embarrassing fact:  I fail to recall the title.  (Do You have/remember it?)

There is so much that demonstrates the evil upon Us that is disappearing.  [sigh]  They ARE on the run.
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Offline Pimander

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Re: I just fell further down the rabbit hole
« Reply #36 on: May 15, 2013, 03:48:21 am »
If they're not evangelical, or constantly telling me that they think I'm the spawn of Satan, then I'm willing to tolerate Christians at this point.
I love being called the spawn of Christians Satan.  If Jehova (or other lord of Earth) is he Devil then Christian Satan is it's enemy and should be viewed as a positive force.  Long live the Spawn of Satan. :P

Offline undo11

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Re: I just fell further down the rabbit hole
« Reply #37 on: May 15, 2013, 04:14:50 am »
I love being called the spawn of Christians Satan.  If Jehova (or other lord of Earth) is he Devil then Christian Satan is it's enemy and should be viewed as a positive force.  Long live the Spawn of Satan. :P

that's exactly the opposite of what i'm discovering.  the satan of the old testament is not the satan of the new testament.  the satan of the old testament was anti-human but he's depicted as just being a vengeful jehovah.  he was confused with the creator of the lifeforms on the planet.

i mean do a logic puzzle grid. now list all the features of jehovah in the old testament. now list all the features of satan in the old testament.  understand that satan just means accuser. he didn't and doesn't want humans on his planet, sorta like this guy

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Na9-jV_OJI[/youtube]

now consider that the matrix wouldn't have energy to run if it werent for multiplying humans (remember human batteries scene?). 

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IojqOMWTgv8[/youtube]

slaves. and when the matrix had too many slaves, the architect (another example of satan) would just reboot it.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKpFFD7aX3c[/youtube]

god would not create something, knowing the future of that something, and then blame that something for something god already knew would happen.   in effect, blaming the mistake he knowingly created and encouraged to flourish, on the thing he created.  that makes no sense whatsoever.

the only explanation i can come up with is that somebody mixed satan and god together in the old testament, so that the story would inevitably end up benefitting satan to the detriment of humans, and used this mechanism to validate the rebooting of the planet and its lifeforms. 
« Last Edit: May 15, 2013, 05:41:14 am by undo11 »
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Offline Pimander

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Re: I just fell further down the rabbit hole
« Reply #38 on: May 15, 2013, 05:38:06 am »
that's exactly the opposite of what i'm discovering.  the satan of the old testament is not the satan of the new testament.  the satan of the old testament was anti-human but he's depicted as just being a vengeful jehovah.  he was confused with the creator of the lifeforms on the planet.

If you are saying that the Satan of the New Testament is Jahovah/Yahweh you are probably right.  Some, but not all, references in the New Testament are Gnostic in origin and the Gnostics (including the early circle around Jesus, The Magdalene and James) would have likely viewed Yahweh as the Demiurge.

Quote
In the Apocryphon of John c. 120-180 AD, the Demiurge arrogantly declares that he has made the world by himself:

   
Quote
Now the archon (ruler) who is weak has three names. The first name is Yaltabaoth, the second is Saklas (“fool”), and the third is Samael. And he is impious in his arrogance which is in him. For he said, "I am God and there is no other God beside me," for he is ignorant of his strength, the place from which he had come.[24]

He is Demiurge and maker of man, but as a ray of light from above enters the body of man and gives him a soul, Yaldabaoth is filled with envy; he tries to limit man's knowledge by forbidding him the fruit of knowledge in paradise. At the consummation of all things all light will return to the Pleroma. But Yaldabaoth, the Demiurge, with the material world, will be cast into the lower depths.

Yaldabaoth is frequently called "the Lion-faced", leontoeides, with the body of a serpent. We are told also[25] that the Demiurge is of a fiery nature, the words of Moses being applied to him, “the Lord our God is a burning and consuming fire,” a text used also by Simon.[26]

In Pistis Sophia Yaldabaoth has already sunk from his high estate and resides in Chaos, where, with his forty-nine demons, he tortures wicked souls in boiling rivers of pitch, and with other punishments (pp. 257, 382). He is an archon with the face of a lion, half flame and half darkness.

Under the name of Nebro (rebel), Yaldabaoth is called an angel in the apocryphal Gospel of Judas. He is first mentioned in “The Cosmos, Chaos, and the Underworld” as one of the twelve angels to come “into being [to] rule over chaos and the [underworld]”. He comes from heaven, his “face flashed with fire and whose appearance was defiled with blood”. Nebro creates six angels in addition to the angel Saklas to be his assistants. These six in turn create another twelve angels “with each one receiving a portion in the heavens.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demiurge#Yaldabaoth

Although I lean slightly away from the idea that the creator of he physical Universe as being pure evil I agree completely that Yahweh is malevolent and Jesus circle would have agreed with me.

Offline undo11

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Re: I just fell further down the rabbit hole
« Reply #39 on: May 15, 2013, 05:42:04 am »
reposting this in case you missed it

god would not create something, knowing the future of that something, and then blame that something for something god already knew would happen.   in effect, blaming the mistake he knowingly created and encouraged to flourish, on the thing he created.  that makes no sense whatsoever.

the only explanation i can come up with is that somebody mixed satan and god together in the old testament, so that the story would inevitably end up benefitting satan to the detriment of humans, and used this mechanism to validate the rebooting of the planet and its lifeforms. 

then jesus comes along and tries to fix it, and they kill him for it.  he's like neo.  the anomalie in the program.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2013, 05:49:36 am by undo11 »
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Offline Pimander

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Re: I just fell further down the rabbit hole
« Reply #40 on: May 15, 2013, 05:53:52 am »
It is the secret the Church has guarded so closely for so long.  If only we could see visit the Vatican vaults for a good look.  I'd certainly invite you to come Beth.  ;)

Precisely why the Rabbis and Priests still encourage the worship of what the Vatican for certain know is evil needs explaining.  BASTARDS!

i mean do a logic puzzle grid. now list all the features of jehovah in the old testament. now list all the features of satan in the old testament.  understand that satan just means accuser. he didn't and doesn't want humans on his planet, sorta like this guy
It is asimilar line of logic that leads me to reject the idea of sin (esp original sin) and Hell and eternal damnation as well as Judgement day and the Apocalypse.  It makes no sense as it would all be God's fault. :)

Offline undo11

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Re: I just fell further down the rabbit hole
« Reply #41 on: May 15, 2013, 06:06:06 am »
It is asimilar line of logic that leads me to reject the idea of sin (esp original sin) and Hell and eternal damnation as well as Judgement day and the Apocalypse.  It makes no sense as it would all be God's fault. :)

precisely why paul tried to explain that sin is really not sin when you relinquish the idea of sin in the first place.  meat sacrified to an idol was an example he gave and he also said that the law is what condemns us, upon reading it.  had we no concept of sin, the idea wouldn't have any power over us.  but because we do understand it, we become accessories to the original crime that we did not commit, we only committed natural instincts, which are called crimes/sins. 

understandly, he tries to explain that not acknowledging the need for loving behavior towards yourself and others, is the only thing that makes it necessary to acknowledge the law at all, thus why jesus states that 2 most important commandments are regarding love.  love of yourself, your neighbor and god.    the impression i get is he's trying to tell the listener that sin is a temporal time problem, not a reality and reality is the only thing that counts.  reality=eternity.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2013, 06:21:45 am by undo11 »
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Offline undo11

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Re: I just fell further down the rabbit hole
« Reply #42 on: May 15, 2013, 07:17:17 am »
neo chose love instead of duty and saved the human race.  as a result, he foiled the machinations of agent smith, who was attempting to take over the entire matrix.

this leads me to believe that love is such a positive force, that it overwrites any negatives in precisely the same way as the forgiveness of sins.  you must believe you don't have sin, in order for it to not have power over you.  so the salvation experience is about disenfranchising the crimes  levied against you by disavowing their continued existence. this is a necessary step. 

 it has to be removed from the framework of "works" because all works do is reinforce your sin state and continued requirement for forgiveness, which is like shooting yourself in the foot repeatedly, for crimes someone else did.  that's darn silly.

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Offline Pimander

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Re: I just fell further down the rabbit hole
« Reply #43 on: May 15, 2013, 07:31:15 am »
I agree with most of what you say.  There is one part I simply don't buy into and never will (although I concede it is related to time).  The part that I differ from and partly why I am not a "Christian" is...

but because we do understand it, we become accessories to the original crime that we did not commit, we only committed natural instincts, which are called crimes/sins.
... that and the fact that I believe we are as divine as Jesus was (or able to be).

I say that Paul's message was edited by Peter's Romanist tradition and his message distorted.  Before that Paul distorted/revised the tradition of James and the rest of the early "Church".  Of course that means Jesus and Mary's message/tradition was also corrupted.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2013, 07:33:26 am by Pimander »

Offline undo11

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Re: I just fell further down the rabbit hole
« Reply #44 on: May 15, 2013, 07:49:17 am »
it's the natural instincts that are being called sins.  you must admit, that lack of love for ourselves and others, causes no end of problems in this temporal space.  love for your kin is natural, love for your enemies is not.  this indicates to me, that the version of god and his reaction to the choices of the adam, in the garden, is purely the natural reaction of an animal not of a higher being.   this i do believe, is what separates an animal from a higher being.  only loving what loves you in return is easy.  because jesus taught love for your enemies, he rises above the situation described in the garden, where man is cursed and his life span shortened, pain in childbirth and all that jazzola because we disobeyed.  heck the stuff we have to go thru as a result of the nerf in the garden, i wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.

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