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Author Topic: Noah's Flood - Fact or Fiction?  (Read 71439 times)

Offline Linda Brown

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Re: Noah's Flood - Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #360 on: April 24, 2012, 07:53:55 am »
"still don't understand why you think it's okay to select only teeny tiny bits of the text and just throw everything else away.  that's gonna bug me everytime i see it. 

That's the way I respond to every passage of the Bible that I read....

Or...... some technical manuals where I KNOW people are in possession of information that they are simply not talking about.

Or... thinking back over some of the stories that I have been told in my past were true but now as I run into conflicting information I am asking myself the very same question....
still don't understand why you think it's okay to select only teeny tiny bits of the text and just throw everything else away.  that's gonna bug me everytime i see it. 

If I concentrated on " WHY it WAS OK?" then I lose track of what is actually happening in front of me.

In my case... I could ask of Mr. Twigsnapper.... why was it OK to tell me a story that you KNEW I would take as fact because of the way I honor and trust you. Why would it be OK to put me in a position now of having to go back and PROVE that you were either telling me the truth or lying blatantly. Why was it OK to put me in that position?

You can see how easily it dissolves into a personal situation wrapped in hurt feelings and outrage over being possibly "used" the way a pawn might have been used in a giant galactic chess game.

But that's not the point. Its taken me a long time to figure that. That's not where the attention needs to go...

The FACT is that there will probably ALWAYS be sections of " Knowledge" that are with held from us until we are able to understand it.....

Through a glass darkly..... for a reason.

I am beginning to understand that it is not the information that is out there for us to find that is the important thing.... its our ability to reach out to each other and work together in the search that is the most important element. Once we get THERE we can go anywhere. 

Just a persons opinion, sitting on the sideline of this conversation.   Linda

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Re: Noah's Flood - Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #361 on: April 24, 2012, 08:45:14 am »
Isn't Every individual thing more than one thing? When looked at from one perspective it is that and when looked at from yet another it is also that.

( More than one way to skin a cat? lol )

As a child I was told what God was, but still did not understand. I felt that I wanted to know God, but wasn't sure how to believe in something that I could not see and that did not talk to me.

In my own personal experience...
When I was a child I remember closing my eyes at night and seeing nothing but "blackness" which could also be considered an abyss. I could look out as far as my mind could see, but there was nothing but this great void and silence.

Every night I would pray or talk to God asking questions. I asked many questions but God did not say anything. With eyes closed staring out into the black void I would call out to God in my mind asking for some kind of sign that God exist's. I would hear thunder off in the distance, but then think - well that's just thunder and a coincidence. I would ask again - and again thunder... was just a storm... still no proof of God.

I was told by my elders that I should not ask for proof of God and was told simply to have "Faith". Yeah as a kid that didn't work well for me, but I tried. Most nights, still asking for proof, for God to speak to me...

I eventually tried using science to find God. I was still a kid, but knew that all things around me were science and could be explained. So I looked for God in all the different things around me. Surely science could find God.

As i looked out at each thing, I started to see each connection, I saw a larger and larger picture. It was then that I realized all things were connected. This picture became so large, each thing touching the next, that it even expanded out into space.

I had found my proof. God is all things together. God did not speak to me, but I knew God was real from that point forward. Because of that revelation I now had greater faith. All the things taught to me made more sense now. I could now see God in my own way. It was as if something had unlocked in my mind. My belief grew and grew from that moment. I still didn't understand God, but at least I now knew God as real.



« Last Edit: April 24, 2012, 09:06:07 am by Captain Dave »

Offline undo11

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Re: Noah's Flood - Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #362 on: April 24, 2012, 09:12:46 am »

Why does it matter what he thinks is OK?


for the same reason it matters to you that it matters to me.  cause it matters.  if i was reading you the recipe for a dessert and left out half the ingredients, which you happened to know were in there, you'd be wondering and perhaps asking: "hey where's the rest of the recipe? are you leaving it out because you make it differently or what? wait, that ingredient is not even in there.   why are you calling it the same ingredient when it isn't the same ingredient?  come to think of it, that's not even the same recipe. "   hehe
« Last Edit: April 24, 2012, 09:16:39 am by undo11 »
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Re: Noah's Flood - Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #363 on: April 24, 2012, 09:54:17 am »
p.s. i honestly don't believe the abyss is a woman's...

HAHAHAhahahahHAHAhahaAHhaha hmmm ha. I love your personality Undo... Often frank and straight to the point. I think you would make even Jesus blush though.  ;D

( Had to throw in my two cents... )

I've heard many "secret societies" use sexual ceremonies in their groups... Though I don't know what their reasons are?!

The joining of man and woman is much like a lock & key scenario that does open a doorway, isn't it?

When the two are joined together, don't they enter another realm? I've usually experienced it in my mind ( with eyes closed ) like floating in outerspace in a "void" or "abyss", joined with another soul experiencing bliss.

So lock & key join, open a door to "the abyss", experience bliss, combine together the essense of who they are body and soul and a new body is created and a soul is brought back from the abyss into this world?

Not thinking this is what the bible is referencing as "the abyss" either, but I dunno, maybe the two are connected? Same place, different ways of getting there? Haha I dunno.

( If that is a way to other dimensions or places though, I would just like to say that I'm all for it and volunteer to do research. )





(ps... I think I've figured out how to create the right sound frequency channeled through an acoustical device that then defeats gravity. I'm sure you can all figure out how to do it based on just what I've said...  ;) )
« Last Edit: April 24, 2012, 11:48:59 am by Captain Dave »

The Matrix Traveller

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Re: Noah's Flood - Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #364 on: April 24, 2012, 01:19:38 pm »
Isn't Every individual thing more than one thing? When looked at from one perspective it is that and when looked at from yet another it is also that.

( More than one way to skin a cat? lol )

As a child I was told what God was, but still did not understand. I felt that I wanted to know God, but wasn't sure how to believe in something that I could not see and that did not talk to me.

In my own personal experience...
When I was a child I remember closing my eyes at night and seeing nothing but "blackness" which could also be considered an abyss. I could look out as far as my mind could see, but there was nothing but this great void and silence.

Every night I would pray or talk to God asking questions. I asked many questions but God did not say anything. With eyes closed staring out into the black void I would call out to God in my mind asking for some kind of sign that God exist's. I would hear thunder off in the distance, but then think - well that's just thunder and a coincidence. I would ask again - and again thunder... was just a storm... still no proof of God.

I was told by my elders that I should not ask for proof of God and was told simply to have "Faith". Yeah as a kid that didn't work well for me, but I tried. Most nights, still asking for proof, for God to speak to me...

I eventually tried using science to find God. I was still a kid, but knew that all things around me were science and could be explained. So I looked for God in all the different things around me. Surely science could find God.

As i looked out at each thing, I started to see each connection, I saw a larger and larger picture. It was then that I realized all things were connected. This picture became so large, each thing touching the next, that it even expanded out into space.

I had found my proof. God is all things together. God did not speak to me, but I knew God was real from that point forward. Because of that revelation I now had greater faith. All the things taught to me made more sense now. I could now see God in my own way. It was as if something had unlocked in my mind. My belief grew and grew from that moment. I still didn't understand God, but at least I now knew God as real.

Beautifully Explained Captain
......

Offline NewTheories

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Re: Noah's Flood - Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #365 on: April 24, 2012, 01:39:51 pm »
Quote from: The Matrix Traveller

For more on The "[b
Processing System[/b]" of The Mind..... (NO Religion or Philosophy)


The quote above is something you have said in a lot of Your posts, about religion (for example the Gnostic Teachings) and philosophy.

But is not Omitting Religion and Philosophy leaving a big part of the Teachings out?.

Also, here is a example of Your selective quoting of biblical versus, while not using the full passage, You quote this part of Mathew 23 a lot,

"Matthew 23:13 "But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut off the kingdom of heaven from people; for you do not enter in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in."



But You never quote the full passage of Matthew 23?, should they not be Quoted in there full context?.

<< Matthew 23 >>

New American Standard Bible

Eight Woes
 
     13“But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut off the kingdom of heaven from people; for you do not enter in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in. 14[“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you devour widows’ houses, and for a pretense you make long prayers; therefore you will receive greater condemnation.]

      15“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you travel around on sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.

      16“Woe to you, blind guides, who say, ‘Whoever swears by the temple, that is nothing; but whoever swears by the gold of the temple is obligated.’ 17“You fools and blind men! Which is more important, the gold or the temple that sanctified the gold? 18“And, ‘Whoever swears by the altar, that is nothing, but whoever swears by the offering on it, he is obligated.’ 19“You blind men, which is more important, the offering, or the altar that sanctifies the offering? 20“Therefore, whoever swears by the altar, swears both by the altar and by everything on it. 21“And whoever swears by the temple, swears both by the temple and by Him who dwells within it. 22“And whoever swears by heaven, swears both by the throne of God and by Him who sits upon it.

      23“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier provisions of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness; but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others. 24“You blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!

      25“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside they are full of robbery and self-indulgence. 26“You blind Pharisee, first clean the inside of the cup and of the dish, so that the outside of it may become clean also.

      27“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness. 28“So you, too, outwardly appear righteous to men, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

      29“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous, 30“and say, ‘If we had been living in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partners with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31“So you testify against yourselves, that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32“Fill up, then, the measure of the guilt of your fathers. 33“You serpents, you brood of vipers, how will you escape the sentence of hell?

      34“Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city, 35so that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36“Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

Lament over Jerusalem

      37“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. 38“Behold, your house is being left to you desolate! 39“For I say to you, from now on you will not see Me until you say, ‘BLESSED IS HE WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD!’”




« Last Edit: April 24, 2012, 01:46:43 pm by NewTheories »

Offline hobbit

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Re: Noah's Flood - Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #366 on: April 24, 2012, 02:38:18 pm »
A flood to our present day understandings means a rise in sea level, or a lowering of land mass.
Could I offer another senario in an electrical universe mode?
It has to do with water and that which We call the surface.

We have been indoctrinated to be BELIEVERS.
To believe there is a force called gravity.
I do not.

To then explain why water could be attracted to the surface area of all, no matter if its mountain top or valley base.....the surface is the surface of mass that is REMEMBERING to be within a scalar system that is of universe.
Where every atom and parts of atoms are heart centered memory fields that compound to become whatever, and are fed constantly from the overall universal flow of TIME that exhibits the duality of spin that chases itself in a continuum, BUT.
It is a fractal system that ebbs and flows with signifigant PINCH points that our short life spans cannot register or comprehend due to loss of memory.

Litterally most of the surface area creation will FORGET at these pinch points where an overload in either of the dual spin flows engulfs this planets memory field, and something else will occur where the surface area attraction zone will change and cause the fluids to be attracted in a skin like manner to the surface, or to alternatively cause the opposite where the fluids all are attracted below surface which would result in a scorching of the surface area due to lack of atmosphere.

It is a huge hurdle to jump over to accept Yourself as been nothing but a memory....a temporary vehicle to allow experience.
I have the advantage of been able to dowse all, and the human field reveals much, especially at extremes between the young and such as dimentia and alziehmers.

You are all TIME machines supplied by ever larger time machines, and We exist out in those larger realmns also.

There are seven billion presently here , with countless further lifeforms all experiencing and reporting that .

I reckon We have all come here presently to experience something very special.....a large scale pinch point , and we have been getting ready for some time, and the best of the best have prepared to try and counter the natural  by understanding how the system operates and using such to stop a total memory wipe occuring.
The good ship  Earth is in fine sailors hands.
hobbit

Offline undo11

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Re: Noah's Flood - Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #367 on: April 24, 2012, 05:30:53 pm »

Lament over Jerusalem

      37“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. 38“Behold, your house is being left to you desolate! 39“For I say to you, from now on you will not see Me until you say, ‘BLESSED IS HE WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD!’”

did they say "BLESSED IS HE WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD!" ?   cause they seem to be doing pretty good and yet, as far as i know, are not big on the whole jesus thing.   

everybody else=
you're cursed till you say "BLESSED IS HE WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD",  even if you say it, you still are cursed because you haven't said it in some specific way.  like you can mean it with your heart and not be able to get your body to adapt to it entirely.  that  kind of thinking is applied to poor schmucks like me, supposedly due to genetics. :D

« Last Edit: April 24, 2012, 05:33:45 pm by undo11 »
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Re: Noah's Flood - Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #368 on: April 24, 2012, 05:50:25 pm »
everybody else=
you're cursed till you say "BLESSED IS HE WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD",  even if you say it, you still are cursed because you haven't said it in some specific way.  like you can mean it with your heart and not be able to get your body to adapt to it entirely.  that  kind of thinking is applied to poor schmucks like me, supposedly due to genetics. :D

Just my opinion, but anything can be done by anyone. The strength of a beings belief or disbelief is the measure of their ability.

Believe 100% in something; remove the "worm of doubt" and what can't you do?
« Last Edit: April 24, 2012, 05:57:33 pm by Captain Dave »

Offline undo11

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Re: Noah's Flood - Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #369 on: April 24, 2012, 05:50:49 pm »
HAHAHAhahahahHAHAhahaAHhaha hmmm ha. I love your personality Undo... Often frank and straight to the point. I think you would make even Jesus blush though.  ;D

( Had to throw in my two cents... )

I've heard many "secret societies" use sexual ceremonies in their groups... Though I don't know what their reasons are?!

The joining of man and woman is much like a lock & key scenario that does open a doorway, isn't it?

When the two are joined together, don't they enter another realm? I've usually experienced it in my mind ( with eyes closed ) like floating in outerspace in a "void" or "abyss", joined with another soul experiencing bliss.

So lock & key join, open a door to "the abyss", experience bliss, combine together the essense of who they are body and soul and a new body is created and a soul is brought back from the abyss into this world?


that's what i'm trying to tell you!  it isn't about sex or sexual organs.  they got that idea from the babylonian version of the abzu and tiamat.  the abzu and tiamat were not gods or humans or any combination thereof, before babylon.   in fact, tiamat as a word name, didn't even exist before babylon and was invented, from what i can tell,  to help explain an event regarding the abzu, in enuma elish.

before babylon, abzu was an artificial construct.  it had 2 main features: 1) its gate, 2) the generated wormhole attached to its gate.

it ends up being presented as god sex in babylon, and you end up with a deified gate, who is suddenly called a god named abzu and who has a spouse named tiamat.  then abzu is killed (shut off) and  tiamat mates with (the wormhole connects to a different gate),  kingu instead.  it's a metaphorical description of an artificial construct (the abzu gate) and what it generates or harnasses. 

bab-el is the gate of the god.  in an earlier form its called bab-ilu (gate of the godS). it's not about sex either.  "bab"  is "water gate" or more specifically, "abyss gate." and an even earlier form is KA.DINGIR.RA. if you see egyptian words in that, it's not a coincedence!

the reason they mixed it up?  the "Gods" came out of the gates, as if they were "born" from them.  They likened it to the womb, and then it stuck



« Last Edit: April 24, 2012, 07:40:20 pm by undo11 »
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Re: Noah's Flood - Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #370 on: April 24, 2012, 05:51:33 pm »
The human Species judges their Own, But Jesus said,  QUOTE;

"I Judge NO MAN".

My Lord Forgives ALL.

Jesus said;

"Forgive Them Father, For They Know NOT what they Do".

I guess these words we left out by those who despise me.

But then they Tried in Vain, to murder "The Son of God" and could only put the flesh to sleep for a little while.

I have NOT asked any to follow me but have merely given an account of what I have heard and seen.

I have given freely through LOVE and expect Nothing.

Who of you will cast the first Stone ?
« Last Edit: April 24, 2012, 05:54:33 pm by The Matrix Traveller »

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Re: Noah's Flood - Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #371 on: April 24, 2012, 06:04:23 pm »
that's what i'm trying to tell you!  it isn't about sex or sexual organs.  they got that idea from the babylonian version of the abzu and tiamat.  the abzu and tiamat were not gods or humans or any combination thereof, before babylon.   in fact, tiamat as a word name, didn't even exist before babylon and was invented, from what i can tell,  to help explain an event regarding the abzu, in enuma elish.

before babylon, abzu was an artificial construct.  it had 2 main features: 1) its gate, 2) the generated wormhole attached to its gate.

it ends up being presented as god sex in babylon, and you end up with a deified gate, who is suddenly called a god named abzu and who has a spouse named tiamat.  then abzu is killed (shut off) and  tiamat mates with (the wormhole connects to a different gate),  kingu instead.  it's a metaphorical description of an artificial construct (the abzu gate) and what it generates or harnasses. 

bab-el is the gate of the god.  in an earlier form its called bab-ilu (gate of the godS). it's not about sex either.  "bab"  is "water gate" or more specifically, "abyss gate." and an even earlier form is KA.DINGIR.RA. if you see egyptian words in that, it's not a coincedence!

the reason they mixed it up?  the "Gods" came out of the gates, as if they were "born" from them.  They likened it to the womb, and then it stuck



the

Well, yeah I get what you're saying, and wasn't disputing that you're right. I was just making comment on the whole sex thing because it's a different perspective and also right. I mean I'm a guy and if you mention sex, my A.D.D. goes away. lol

Men think about sex every 7 seconds so it's really not my fault. If they combined the playboy channel with math, I would have been a straight A+ student. I Blame Genetics & the School system.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2012, 06:15:23 pm by Captain Dave »

The Matrix Traveller

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Re: Noah's Flood - Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #372 on: April 24, 2012, 06:49:49 pm »
NewTheories

Jn, re your Statement ...   Quote;

Quote
Also, here is a example of Your selective quoting of biblical versus,
while not using the full passage, You quote this part of Mathew 23 a lot,

I have NOT quoted "The Gospel According to Matthew",
many times as you put it...

Correction...

My quote was NOT from the Roman Collection of writings you refer to as the bible.

I did however Quote many times in the past, as you well know,
this, from "The Gospel of Thomas" verse 39 Quote;

Quote
39.  Jesus said, "The Pharisees and the Scribes
have taken The KEYS of KNOWLEDGE and HIDDEN THEM.

They themselves have NOT entered,
nor have they allowed to enter those who wish to.

You, however, be as wise as serpents and as innocent as doves."

The only reason I give these verses are to show that what I am writing about, has also been
recorded in History by the human species, in the Form of "Parables".

I do NOT belong to any religious Group/s

I am only Quoting what the human Species has written down to show that the knowledge
I have has been known in the past.

But I thought this Forum was about Noah's Flood ?

And NOT me.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2012, 06:53:57 pm by The Matrix Traveller »

Offline rdunk

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Re: Noah's Flood - Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #373 on: April 24, 2012, 07:04:28 pm »
did they say "BLESSED IS HE WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD!" ?   cause they seem to be doing pretty good and yet, as far as i know, are not big on the whole Jesus thing.   

everybody else=
you're cursed till you say "BLESSED IS HE WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD",  even if you say it, you still are cursed because you haven't said it in some specific way.  like you can mean it with your heart and not be able to get your body to adapt to it entirely.  that  kind of thinking is applied to poor schmucks like me, supposedly due to genetics. :D

"They", the Jews, are totally "big" on the "Messiah thing", but haven't yet accepted Jesus as being their Messiah. They didn't accept Jesus when he was on the Earth, and while there are many Christian Jews, in the main most Jews still haven't accepted Jesus as the "real Messiah".

What many of we Gentiles don't know is that the Jewish people continue to fervently seek and look for their Messiah. One of the specific times when they do this in during their yearly celebration of the Passover. This they were/are commanded to do, and the Passover meal was what was taking place during what is referred to in the bible as the "Last Supper", with Jesus and his disciples.

Jewish families observe Passover in their homes, with their family, much as most of us do similarly on other occasions. For the Jewish family, everything is done in accord with specific tradition. When they sit down at the dining table, there always remains an empty chair -- which is for the Messiah, if he comes. At some point during the various  "rituals" of the Passover meal, the head of the family sends someone, maybe one of the kids, to go outside, and to look up the street, and to look down the street, to see if the Messiah is coming.

Every year they do this very same thing.  I learned this from listening to a preacher go completely through the specific details of the Passover meal. What is striking about this, of course, is that in the last days, the Jewish people will recognize Jesus as their Messiah too.

Another striking thing to me about this is that during the "Last Supper", Jesus was saying specific things, as they drank from the various "cups", and as they ate pieces of the "broken bread" - "take ye and eat", and take ye and drink". He was talking with men who had celebrated the Passover every year of their lives, and knew exactly what he was talking about. We that are Gentiles "have never', so, the detail of our "Communion ritual" is not as powerful, because we don't have that full understanding of the "Passover" rituals.

Just don't sell the Jews short, for they know they have a Messiah to look forward to, they just don't know/understand who it is yet.

Offline rdunk

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Re: Noah's Flood - Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #374 on: April 24, 2012, 07:29:24 pm »
Hey Captain Dave, since you "birthed" this thread question, of "Fact of Fiction, are you keeping score?? Is there a leaning either way, or is this thing so jumbled up, that you may have to declare it either a "draw", or as in golf, "a non-playable lie"?

Either way, we now have 25 pages of interesting discussion that in toto covers a lot of territory, on a subject that I do take for granted as "fact", on the basis of what I believe.

Dave, I mention that just now, in case none of my other replies were clear enough for you to know exactly how to score my vote! FACT!!!   :D :D

 


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