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Author Topic: Turin Shroud 'is not a medieval forgery'  (Read 17822 times)

Offline VillageIdiot

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Re: Turin Shroud 'is not a medieval forgery'
« Reply #30 on: March 29, 2013, 05:03:51 pm »
I have to take a fresh look at "The Fifth Element".

Offline rdunk

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Re: Turin Shroud 'is not a medieval forgery'
« Reply #31 on: March 29, 2013, 07:40:31 pm »
Z - "Which Church? There are hundreds today all claiming the same god in three major religions"

**********************************

The CHURCH pretty much represented Christianity from a long time ago, but as new religions crop up, it seems they use "church" same as people use terms like "Coke" and "Kleenex". Certainly doesn't mean there s any relationship with those "different" religions, just because they use the term "church".

Actually, the most literal translation of the Bible, Young's Literal Translation, always terms it "assembly" rather than "church" - - which doesn't make much difference but.........!

Regarding "all claiming the same god in three major religions" ~~~ people can make any "claim" they so desire to, however, as said in my signature, "Results are the teachers of fools"! (in this case, future tense - "will be" the teachers of fools - as was in the days of Noah)

God the Father has made it clear to all that God the Son Jesus is the one and only way!!  ;) 
« Last Edit: March 29, 2013, 07:42:45 pm by rdunk »

Offline The Matrix Traveller

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Re: Turin Shroud 'is not a medieval forgery'
« Reply #32 on: March 29, 2013, 10:13:42 pm »
Quote
God the Father has made it clear to all that God the Son Jesus is the one and only way!!

Totally "False Teaching"....


"The LIFE of GOD" i.e. "The LIGHT of MEN", said Through the "Carpenter" QUOTE;
(According to your bible)

Quote
I Am The WAY the Truth and The LIFE

And in another verse, QUOTE;

Quote
I Am The WAY the Truth and The LIGHT


NEVER ONCE, did The Carpenter Jesus ever say.....

"I Am The Way The Truth and Jesus the Carpenter" !   LOL.


Nether did He make any Mention, of your human churches, Roman or Roman Catholic
or any other Denomination !

Nether did He ever say a Book would Come Out, called the N.T., even though the Bible
is one of the worlds biggest sellers....

That book is only there to make $$$$$ and for churches (Once under Roman Gov.)
to try and control the week minded in "Vain".

But the "Carpenter" did turn over the "Money tables" and whipped those in the temple,
calling them "Thieves" and "Robbers", Driving, them out !


The "Assemblies" referred to "The Assemblies of LIGHT/S".

According to "The Revelation of Jesus Christ", hence the "Candle Sticks" Or "Lap Holders",
and The 7 Stars !   LOL

Nothing at all to do with "human Primates" !

But instead The Assemblies Referring to The Assemblies of LIGHTS and NOT "human Primates" !

In "The Gospel According to JOHN" (Not Jesus The Carpenter) tells one plainly
that "The LIFE of GOD" IS "The LIGHT of MEN" and NOT "light as in Understanding!

Now WHY would "The Son of GOD", need some "Primates" to write books for Him,
instead of Writing it Himself ?


"Primates" will believe anything told to them by Priests in Fancy Dress Clothing !

Even the Carpenter said Quote;

Quote
78.   Jesus said, "Why have you come out into the desert?

To see a reed shaken by the wind?

And to see a man clothed in fine garments like your kings and your great men?

Upon them are the fine garments, and they are unable  to discern THE TRUTH."


The Reason "human Primates" did this, was an Attempt in Vain to Covet LIFE !

And That is simply NOT going to Work, as "The TRUTH" Remains in spite of what
"human Primates" believes in Vain !

There is ONLY "One Way" and that is through LIFE and NOT the "Human Primate" !

We all find "The Truth", when we DIE whether we want to or Not.....

And Soon discover what was human B.S.

Personally I prefer to Follow LIFE rather than the B.S. of Human Primates !

At Least LIFE never Lies to anyone or anything....
 
Unlike your human priests and ministers!
« Last Edit: March 29, 2013, 10:30:38 pm by The Matrix Traveller »

Offline rdunk

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Re: Turin Shroud 'is not a medieval forgery'
« Reply #33 on: March 29, 2013, 11:12:19 pm »
Have not been, and do not now plan to reply to such a fundamentally distorted treatise about the God of this universe, and about what is clearly presented in his Word The Bible. Might work for the monkey segment of your primates, but most of we human primate Christians, who have a general knowledge of God's Word, can easily see what you say for what it is! That is a distortment of the scriptures to suit whatever YOUR self-made religion is.

To each his own I guess, until Jesus returns!

John 14:6
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.


Offline The Matrix Traveller

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Re: Turin Shroud 'is not a medieval forgery'
« Reply #34 on: March 29, 2013, 11:44:25 pm »
Quote
John 14:6
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

100% Correct... You should then take notice of this...

NO One including you, can pass through the "human Primate" such as Your Flesh,
to the get to whom you believe to be "The Father".


As Jesus said Himself (NOT my Words !) Quote;
Quote
"You do the Works of your father, and I do The Works of My Father.... Your Father is the "Devi"l

The above Quote is in your bible !

No matter what You believe you are Powerless to change the meaning of His Words !

So your Argument is NOT with Me, but the One who taught, though the Carpenter !


May I suggest you do a little more study...

More Facts rather than your personal beliefs regarding Ancient Writings....    :)


Offline zorgon

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Re: Turin Shroud 'is not a medieval forgery'
« Reply #35 on: March 30, 2013, 01:24:15 am »
I don't and have not ever trusted radio carbon dating as a "TRUE" form of definitive aging detection. Too many variables not taken into consideration, not too mention the pollutants that do create all kinds of eye brow lifting when trying to authenticate such a delicate topic such as religion or the proof of so and so.

Well one thing that always gets me is that certain religious groups are willing to take the dating methods as accurate when dealing with artifacts like this shroud, but then attack it when it comes to dinosaurs and early man

Can't have it both ways :P

Offline 1Worldwatcher

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Re: Turin Shroud 'is not a medieval forgery'
« Reply #36 on: March 30, 2013, 05:21:23 am »
Well one thing that always gets me is that certain religious groups are willing to take the dating methods as accurate when dealing with artifacts like this shroud, but then attack it when it comes to dinosaurs and early man

Can't have it both ways :P

"Exactly!!" If one is going to postulate with 'Accuracy' argumentative rebuttals using such methods, and these arguments are being explained or given as "300 years - 500 years" that is a hell of a gap in time lines and deductive evidence for arguments sake.

Sometime ago I had created a thread showing that the sciences behind Radiocarbon dating was so inaccurate, they actually decided to add another 50-75K years to the whole 'Human Species' genre, that raises red flags for both accuracy and consistencies.

As Matrix has brought out "The Bible had origination of a 'LOST' foundation." It makes a great story and has it's merit's with in moral self acknowledgement, but if one reads it as a doctrine of absolute fact or truth, they are being sequestered for what the "True" meaning really is. I am not saying that religious people are stupid, but I am saying this is all based on what was written by the 'PRIMATE' (As Matrix so eloquently puts it) and is being read and digested by the same 'Primates'." There by cancelling out any affiliation to a so called 'God' what so ever.

The Shroud has become an 'IDOL' of worship, and with out 'Absolute' proof of what it really is, doesn't this also en-tale the acts of 'False Idolatry worship' ? Religion is probably the one thing on this planet/plain of 'Awareness' (That's for you Matrix ;) ) that has been, always will be the unrecognized banking system it was intentionally designed for, for 'Power' 'Prestige' 'recognition' of something that has over dominated the 'Primate Species' as a factual doctrine of undeniable fancy and false proclamation's of rewards with in it.

The analogy of the 'Hospital/Heart defibrillator' is really a good example 'Z'. But, diehard religious believer's will explain it as "God created the man to design and build the defibrillator and there by justly intervening as too support God's love for mankind and there by bestowing the 'Gift' of life upon us too 'Multiply and Prosper' with this great magic."  ::)

It burns down to one thing, and one thing only 'Faith' in what one reads and how they translate that into every day life in a self analytically proclaimed 'Truth' to use it as a sound board for either making them feel better or just too allow them to think they are better than common folk not so into this stuff. (Attention: The above statement does not apply to every one that is religious. ;) )

Either way, we don't even understand our 'True' origins, we have ideas, but there again, are only ideas. The Shroud will always be debatable with in fine constructs of 'True' understanding and what it really is, just as we strive too know "What came first, chicken or the egg?" kind of rhetoric and debacle.

1WW
"To know men is too have knowledge, to know self is to have insight."

Offline Littleenki

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The "Fraud of Turin"...not a "Shroud of Evidence"
« Reply #37 on: March 30, 2013, 07:26:48 am »
Well weve been able to watch the show, and how this shroud would hopefully someday be the cult of christianity's "shroud of evidence" but regardless of dating or any extraneous circumstances, theres no way to prove anything aside from the fact that some bearded dude laid wrapped in it a long time ago.

But if you listen to people like Constantine and the pervert King James regarding the issue, youd really be looking deep for some type of scientific fact to prove your thirty third in a long line of crucified saviours did exist.

So desperation on the part of the cult members rules the day, and the "Fraud of Turin" continues to garner attention from the sheep who follow the doctrine of their dogmatic shepherds.



Hermetically sealed, for your protection

Offline Sgt.Rocknroll

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Re: Turin Shroud 'is not a medieval forgery'
« Reply #38 on: March 30, 2013, 09:01:45 am »
These post have really open my eyes to the members here! I would hope you could choose to either believe or not and leave it at that. But no, venom and file hatred rule the day.  Sorry to see this. :-\
Non nobis, Domine, non nobis, sed nomini Tuo da gloriam

Offline The Seeker

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Re: Turin Shroud 'is not a medieval forgery'
« Reply #39 on: March 30, 2013, 09:21:59 am »
Just my few cents on the matter for your consideratio; Matrix and I both have been dead; I have my death certificate here somewhere, if I find it I will post it...

but I remember my time on the other side, remember my experience, and all I will say is it is not as all are taught.


seeker
Look closely: See clearly: Think deeply; and Choose wisely...
Trolls are crunchy and good with ketchup...
Seekers Domain

Offline Littleenki

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Re: Turin Shroud 'is not a medieval forgery'
« Reply #40 on: March 30, 2013, 09:29:15 am »
These post have really open my eyes to the members here! I would hope you could choose to either believe or not and leave it at that. But no, venom and file hatred rule the day.  Sorry to see this. :-\
No venom and definitely no hate Rock, fundamental truths at worst.
To understand the current desperation of religion is a blessing, ironically.

Every little shroud counts towards them finally being  able to prove  something....whatever it would be.

All the best to you, and everyone else here.
Hermetically sealed, for your protection

Offline Anynonmouses

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Re: Turin Shroud 'is not a medieval forgery'
« Reply #41 on: March 30, 2013, 09:43:48 am »
TO ALL CONCERNED--

The often heated and reheated topics of religion and politics have always been nearly as divisive as science itself, and the two are inextricably woven together into a fine, sticky mess.

For those who want to understand why religion is as useless as uselessness itself, I cover the topic in logical detail (if logic is your sort of thing--to be clear, logic isn't for everyone). You can listen to my presentation I call the "MANUAL FOR LIFE" here:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZRsIak8KzI[/youtube]

That should clear up all of the rampant silliness associated with religion AND politics. Two birds at once, if you will.

If there are further questions regarding life, Jesus, aliens, stargates, dimensions, the ether or anything else which doesn't require mathematical formulas (because I have dyscalcula as one of my challenges), feel free to ask, and I shall impart to you the hidden-in-plain-sight wonders of the universe in such a way that even a child will "get" it.

Cheers!

Peace and Love,
JD
Oasis
aka JD Stenzel
aka Anynonmouses

HUMILUS HUMILIBUS INFLECTENS ARROGANTIBUS (Humble to the humble, inflexible to the arrogant)

Offline Sgt.Rocknroll

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Re: Turin Shroud 'is not a medieval forgery'
« Reply #42 on: March 30, 2013, 09:49:50 am »
Sorry but the underlying attitude of ridicule says differently. :-[
Non nobis, Domine, non nobis, sed nomini Tuo da gloriam

Offline burntheships

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Re: Turin Shroud 'is not a medieval forgery'
« Reply #43 on: March 30, 2013, 10:01:14 am »
Sorry but the underlying attitude of ridicule says differently. :-[

Sarge,

Understandably, and I would agree.

Attitudes do come over loud and clear, even in
black and white.

Please know that these are just the opinions of
those posting, they do not represent a consensus
of those here on PRC.

Let them who condescend do so,
dont let it bother you.

I dont much care for George Clooney,
but he said this once, and I find it pretty spot on.

" You never really learn much from hearing yourself speak.”
~ George Clooney

« Last Edit: March 30, 2013, 10:32:49 am by burntheships »
"This is the Documentary Channel"
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Offline Anynonmouses

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Re: Turin Shroud 'is not a medieval forgery'
« Reply #44 on: March 30, 2013, 10:16:18 am »
Sorry but the underlying attitude of ridicule says differently. :-[

People I love, even the wobbly ones, so I assure you I intend no ridiculousness. My way of communication has been called odd, and so it is, I suppose, but why make the leap to saying I'm in some way ridiculing? Truly I am not.

We are each where we are in our understanding of all things based on what we were exposed to, and how we compare that data to the context we currently live within. Everyone being a unique specimen, we have unique perspectives. I see no problem with this, because what works for one may not work for another, due to differences of various sorts.

Ridicule. I'm not getting where I have ridiculed anyone or their beliefs. If you feel ridiculed, it has not originated from me, but rather your own interpretation of my views and how they are expressed. I try to be as accommodating as possible when it comes to others and their views. People are vessels filled with notions about stuff.

There will be disagreement, but I in no way ridicule those who don't think as I do. I embrace conflict (meaning disagreement) as a source of potential understanding, and an opportunity to test theories. I advance my theories in hopes that others will debate and discuss (with me) the various attributes of my perspectives.

I have zero interest in belittling anyone on this or any other forum. I inherently love everyone, even those with whom I strongly disagree, because I assume and hope that as others become more knowledgeable they will become less offensive (as has been the case with me), and we aren't today who we will be tomorrow.

Jesus existed. Whether or not Jesus is the only god or God we have, or whether or not he still lives, or whether it all even matters I have worked out for myself, and I am confident in what I know. My position is irrelevant to died-in-the-wool believers, and fortunately I'm not on a mission to make people believe as I do. I merely post my perspective for your consumption or disposal--nothing more.

Peace and Love,
JD
Oasis
aka JD Stenzel
aka Anynonmouses

HUMILUS HUMILIBUS INFLECTENS ARROGANTIBUS (Humble to the humble, inflexible to the arrogant)

 


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