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From  Thread:

PARA: Untersberg - The Mystery Mountain

Addendum - Addition Information from other Members

Credit: MatthiasKabel - Untersberg seen from Salzburg 

Originally posted by TheWayISeeIt, a member of ATS Post ID 4868026

Anyway, looked around in out of print books for more specific names and dates for some of the stories you have related as well as looking for some new ones (as someone on the previous page brought up that there might be a record of a wedding party that disappears and shows up 100 years later).

Lazarus Gitschner's story is recorded in from many sources including liturgical and dates to 1529. 

The hunter who went missing and showed up for his funeral was Michael Hulzogger and the date was 1738.  It was apprently recorded in a a Farmer's Alamanac from that year.  He would not speak of what he saw.  He was summoned by Archbishop Firmian of Salzburg to whom he said he would only relate his info during confession.  Firmian heard his confession, promptly quit the church, refused to say what had transpired in the confession and both he and Hulzogger died shortly thereafter.

I will dig around some more later to see if I can find any more specific  date/name data to support the thread.


Originally posted by whitewave, a member of ATS Post ID 4868528

You're right.  Google is not being helpful at all.  I looked up the archbishop, mentioned earlier by TWISI and there's plenty about his descendent but only a cursory mention of the archbishop from the timeframe mentioned. 

What I did find interesting was that the archbishop (on which their was some information) had an extension collection of clocks, sundials, astronomical instruments;

Salzburg (Austria)
26 July - 13 November 1994
Exhibit "Time and Measures. Sun-dials and scientific devices."
On display will include clocks, sun-dials, globes, distance-measuring 
instruments, telescopes, astrolabia, Armillarspheres, precision instruments 
by Georg Friedrich Brander, measuring instruments from mountain works, 
technical supplies for war-purposes, portraits, and graphics. In the center 
of the collection stand the clocks, and sun-dials from the collection of 
the Arch-Bishop of Salzburg Leopold Anton Freiherr von Firmian (1727-1744). 
Specifically, a 1 meter high astronomical table-clock.
Salzburger Museum Carolino Augusteum, Museumsplatz 1, A-5020 Salzburg,
Tel. (0662) 8411-34/37


Bit of a coincidence, eh?  This is from Anton Firmian.  I believe (not at all sure) that it was his uncle, Ernst, that was also an archbishop-possibly the one mentioned.  TWISI, a little help, please?
"The Eagles Nest" Berchtesgaden, Germany
By Mike Fitterer

Hitlers Mountain top retreat also called the "Tea House" or "Kehlsteinhaus". It is at a height of 1843 m. on top of the Kehlstein. The road to it leads from Hintereck up to a height of 170 0metres with onnl a single bend in the road. The road ends in a big car park from which you then walk through a 3 metre high tunnel 124 meters to an evevator. It then rises 124 meters into the mountain to the interior of the house. Hitler only visited 5 times. Th e house was spared distruction at the end of WW II and was handed over the the German Alpine Club which still rents it to be used as a mountain restaurant. - SOURCE

"Tea House" or "Kehlsteinhaus" and the Eagle's Nest
Destruction of the Berghof, 1945-1952
The Berghof was heavily damaged during the RAF bombing raid on 25 April 1945. This photo, taken from a Lancaster bomber during the raid, shows most of the main Obersalzberg complex. The Berghof appears at the bottom, showing at least two direct bomb hits.  (Royal Air Force photo, Hotel zum Türken) - Source
This aerial reconnaissance photo taken shortly after the bombing shows the damage to the immediate Berghof area. The east wing suffered a direct hit, and another bomb hit between the Adjutancy and the Haus Wachenfeld part. A bomb scored a direct hit on the Hotel zum Türken next door, and the Kindergarten building was also hit. Note the huge crater in the hillside behind the Berghof east wing - from a Tallboy or Blockbuster bomb. This crater can still be seen there today.  (U.S. National Archives) - Source
Hitlers Mountain Home - Homes and Gardens November 1938 - p 193
 Hitler's Mountain Home

Hitler's Mountain Home

It is over twelve years since Herr Hitler fixed on the site of his one and only home. It had to be close to the Austrian border, hardly ten miles from Mozart's own mediæval Salzburg. At first no more than a hunter's shack, "Haus Wachenfeld" has grown, until it is to-day quite a handsome Bavarian chalet, 2,000 feet up on the Obersalzberg amid pinewoods and cherry orchards. Here, in the early days, Hitler's widowed sister, Frau Angela Raubal, kept house for him on a "peasant" scale. Then, as his famous book, Mein Kampf ("My Struggle") became a best-seller of astonishing power (4,500,000 copies of it have been sold), Hitler began to think of replacing that humble shack by a house and garden of suitable scope. In this matter he has throughout been his own architect.

There is nothing pretentious about the Führer's little estate. It is one that any merchant of Munich or Nuremberg might possess in these lovely hills.

The entrance hall is filled with a curious display of cactus plants in majolica pots. Herr Hitler's study is fitted as a modern office, and leading out of this is a telephone exchange. From here it is possible for the Führer to invite his friends or Ministers to fly over to Berchesgarden, landing on his own aerodrome just below the chalet lawns.


The site commands the fairest view in all Europe. This is to say much, I know. But in these Bavarian Alps there is a peculiar softness of greenery, with snow-white cascades and forest-clad pinnacles, like the Schönfeldspitze and Teufelshörner.

Hitler's home looks out upon his native Austria. Meals are often served on the terrace on little tables shaded by big canvas umbrellas. From this view-point a chain of drowsy lakes is seen far below, with ancient shrine-chapels hidden in ferny folds of towering rocks. And since the Reichsführer settled here as "Squire of Wachenfeld," the whole region has been starred with motor speedways, even as far as Oberammergau.

The colour scheme throughout this bright, airy chalet is a light jade green. In outside rooms, like the sun-parlour, chairs and tables are of white plaited cane. Here Hitler will read the home and foreign papers which his own air-pilot, Hansel Baur, brings him every day from Berlin before lunch.

At this altitude the Bavarian sun is at its most genial. Even at Christmastime when deep snows are out, Haus Wachenfield basks in warmth like the Engadine's. The effect of light and air in the house is heightened by the rolling and trilling of many Hartz mountain canaries in gilded cages which hang or stand in most of the rooms.

The curtains are of printed linen, or fine damask in the softer shades. The Führer is his own decorator, designer, and furnisher, as well as architect. He is constantly enlarging the place, building on new guest-annexes, and arranging in these his favourite antiques -- chiefly German furniture of the eighteenth century, for which agents in Munich are on the look out.

It is a mistake to suppose that week-end guests are all, or even mainly, State officials. Hitler delights in the society of brilliant foreigners, especially painters, singers, and musicians. As host he is a droll raconteur; we all know how surprised were Mr. Lloyd George and his party when they accepted an invitation to Haus Wachenfield.

The guest bedrooms are hung with old engravings. But more interesting than any of these to the visitor are the Führer's own water-colour sketches. Time was when a hungry Hitler was glad to raise a few marks by selling these little works; none measure more than about eight inches square, and each is signed "A. Hitler" -- unmistakably, if also illegibly!

The gardens are laid out simply enough. Lawns at different levels are planted with flowering shrubs, as well as roses and other blooms in due season. The Führer, I may add, has a passion for cut flowers in his home, as well as for music.

Every morning at nine he goes out for a walk with his gardeners about their day's work. These men, like the chaffeur and air-pilot, are not so much servants as local friends. A life-long vegetarian at table, Hitler's kitchen plots are both varied and heavy in produce. Even in his meatless diet Hitler is something of a gourmet -- as Sir John Simon and Mr. Anthony Eden were surprised to note when they dined with him in the Presidial Palace at Berlin.


His Bavarian chef, Herr Kannenberg, contrives an imposing array of vegetarian dishes, savoury and rich, pleasing to the eye as well as to the palate, and all conforming to the dietic standards which Hitler exacts. but at Haus Wachenfeld he keeps a generous table for guests of normal tastes. Here bons viveurs like Field Marshals Göring and von Blomberg, and Joachim von Ribbentrop will forgather at dinner. Elaborate dishes like Caneton à la presse and truite saumoné à la Monseigneur will then be served, with fine wines and liqueurs of von Ribbentrop's expert choosing. Cigars and cigarettes are duly lighted at this terrace feast -- though Hitler himself never smokes, nor does he take alcohol in any form.

All visitors are shown their host's model kennels, where he breeds magnificent Alsatians. Some of his pedigree pets are allowed the run of the house, especially on days when Herr Hitler gives a "Fun Fair" to the local children. On such a day, when State affairs are over, the Squire himself, attended by some of his guests, will stroll through the woods into hamlets above and below. There rustics sit at cottage doors carving trinkets and toys in wood, ivory, and bone. It is then the little ones are invited to the house. Coffee, cakes, fruits, and sweets are laid for them on trestle tables in the grassy orchards. Then Frauen Göbbels and Göring, in dainty Bavarian dress, perform dances and folk-songs, while the bolder spirits are given joy-rides in Herr Hitler's private airplane.

Nor must I forget to mention the archery-butts at the back of the chalet. It is strange to watch the burly Field-Marshall Göring, as chief of the most formidable air force in Europe, taking a turn with the bow and arrow at straw targets of twenty-five yards range. There is as much to-do about those scarlet bulls'-eyes as though the fate of nations depended on a full score.

But I have said enough to convey the idea of a sunny sub-alpine home, hundreds of miles from Berlin's uproar, and set amid an unsophisticated peasantry of carvers and hunters. This is a only home in which Hitler can laugh and take his ease -- or even "conduct tours" by means of the tripod telescope which he himself operates on the terrace for his visitors. "This place is mine," he says simply. "I built it with money that I earned." Then he takes you into his library, where you note that quite half the books are on history, painting, architecture, and music.

When it is fine enough to dine in the open air, one sees a piano made ready for the after-dinner concert. Local talent will supply violin and cello for pieces by Mozart or Brahms. But at the piano itself it is always that English-speaking giant (he is 6 ft. 4 ins.) -- Dr. Ernst ("Putzi") Hanfstängl who presides as a composer of all-German renown

SOURCE: The Berghof - Grey Falcon missing page on Way Back Machine archive

Originally posted by cm23 Post ID 4866527

Ok, here´s the translation of the German newspaper article on page 1, because I haven´t found a translation anywhere else in this thread. I´m not a native english speaker, so please forgive any errors in grammar or vocabulary.

"Munich – Five days of darkness around. Five days, in which only headlamps show the way, which suddenly discontinues and gives way to canyons, that seem to be without a ground.

That´s the way through Untersberg (1973 meters) in the region of "Berchtesgadener Land", bavaria´s most mysterious mountain (see below). For the first time, a bavarian-swabian expedition has managed to descent more than one kilometer from the entrance in a heigth of 1879 meters. The five members of the consortium for speleology in "Bad Cannstadt" made it to a depth of 1056 meters to the brink of the "Riesending-Schachthöhle" (a cave).

In Germany nobody has ever descended that far into a cave. Bärbel Vogel, chairwoman of the association of german speleology, called this a sensation.

Dr. Ulrich Meyer of  the consortium "Bad Cannstadt" explained how this was possible: "The team could conquer (?) a very narrow part of the corridor at the hitherto end of the cave."

In doing so, the expedition discovered 800 meters of new corridors that were measured. In a depth of 930 meters a lake was found, that could only be crossed by a rubber boat. The lake lies at about the same height of the hamlet Ettenberg. "If there was an exit, we could have went out and have a snack at the local restaurant.", says participant of the expedition Thomas Matthalm (32). Unfortunately, this exit doesn´t exist in "Riesending" (giant thing), the giant cave, that was created by the lime-dissolving power of water, and whose chasms and caves keep people´s fantasy busy for centuries. Rightly so? Matthalm: "We speleologists make jokes about it ourselves, looking for swords or something like that just for fun, or for emperor Barbarossa himself...". Maybe something that hardens the myth will be found in one of the all in all 60 caves of the Untersberg. Because at least the end of the cave "Riesending" seems not be have been reached. "It could go deeper for 150 meters", thinks speleologist Matthalm. And theoretically, the end of the cave lies 4 kilometers further, in the cave of the well of Fürstenbrunn. A follow-up expedition is already planned...

The Myths of Untersberg

Gnome Statue in Salzberg Garden

It is mysterious and legendary: The Untersberg – called "sleeping dragon" by the Dalai Lama. The myths tell about time portals, lost persons and wondrous mountain dwellers like dwarfs. According to a legend, these dwarfs digged out the more than 400 caves in the Untersberg. But this is only one of many speculations about the mountain.

It is rumored, that emperor Karl the Great (similar is claimed about Friedrich Barbarossa) sleeps in the mountain in a subterrainian throne room together with his truthful knights and dwarfs for more than a thousand years. He´ll awake to the last battle between Good an Evil, when his beard has grown around his marmor table 3 times and the ravens don´t fly around the mountain peaks anymore.

Many legends deal with disappearance. Once, a lost hunter is said to have suddenly appeared to his own mourning service one year after his disappearance. According to another myth, an entire wedding company including the band disappeared in the Untersberg for 100 years.

Perhaps the most mysterious story in recent times began on Aug. 14th of the year 1987: On this day, a couple from Munich, Hermann and Maria F., together with their friend Monika K. started for a mountain tour at Untersberg. After this day, the trio was missing without a trace, and was supposed to be dead. Three months later, in mid-november, the missing persons suddenly called from a telephone on a ship in the Red Sea."

I hope this helps....

Originally posted by sylvie Post ID 4865330

Very interesting, Skyfloating. Sorry, I don't want to hijack your thread, but since I'm speaking fluent German, I've been looking for the old myths around the Untersberg after seeing your thread and translated the Kaiser Karl (Emperor Karl) story just for fun. 

There are several tales about the emperor from, both written down in the early 20th century:

1. Emperor Karl is allegedly inside the mountain and will sleep until his beard has grown three times around the table. Two times, this has already occurred; when it happens the third time, the emperor will awaken from his sleep and Judgment Day comes. 1. Im inneren des Berges soll sich Kaiser Karl V. befinden und so lange schlafen bis sein Bart 3 x um den Tisch gewachsen ist. Zweimal ist das schon geschehen, erfolgt es das dritte Mal, dann erwacht der Kaiser aus seinem Schlafe und der Jüngste Tag bricht an. 

2. When 24 ravens fly 3 times around the mountain, the emperor will also awaken, but then he must stay inside the mountain until the famous dwarf stone has been found, with whose help all dwarves living inside the Untersberg will be turned into humans. Thereupon the emperor will come alive again. 

3. If someone managed to steal the Golden Scepter the emperor holds in his hand and strike it against the Untersberg 3 times, the emperor would also be released. He would then come out of the Untersberg with his army and begin the overall world war, whereupon Judgment Day arrives. 

4. At every birthday anniversary of the emperor, there's a celebratory procession of the dwarves on the Untersberg. Woe to those who are on the mountain at that time; they would be beyond saving since the dwarves love to be alone. 

Another story:

The old emperor in the Untersberg

There are many caves in the Untersberg. Whoever finds the right one, can walk deep into the mountain through that cave. And if he's lucky, he can see the old emperor there, sitting at the table with his men, eating and drinking and waiting until his time comes to return, when he moves out leading the good to destroy the evil. But this person must not make a sound, otherwise he has to stay in the mountain with the emperor and wait, wait, wait. But if he makes it out of the Unterberg, his hair will immediately have turned grey. It has been seen in many people before.

(Kaitlwirt, 1927)

Quite interesting -- there are many more stories, as Skyfloating already said.

Small Additions

There is a book, Among the Gnomes: An Occult Tale of Adventures in the Untersberg written by Frantz Hartmann that talks about the gnomes and "others" that inhabit the mountain. Pretty interesting subject!
Among the Gnomes By Franz Hartmann -   SOURCE

Just one, off the top of my head (source later) involving an 18th century lumberjack who describes a "little man with a huge head and big eyes" leading him down into the caves of the mountain. He goes missing and reappears weeks later for his funeral, saying "I was only gone for a few hours!". - Skyfloating

Hamelyn, it's in Germany. The Pied Piper led the children into a mountain. Vanishing forever. You've all heard it. It's not a made up story like The Lion King, look it up. It happened.

To people U2Uing me about sources for the Dalai Lama quote: This was reported on in regular German and Austrian Newspapers. You can find german-language reports by typing into google "Dalai Lama" + Untersberg. I repeat: These quotes were not reported on in underground-UFO-Mags, but in normal daily newspapers. - Skyfloating

What may be relevant to the story is the fact that there are lots of "hollow" mountains in Central Europe. Some of the "passages" supposedly date from the time of the Turkish invasions (15th-17th century), although some claim that they are much older and were simply used - not made - for the purpose (hiding from the Ottoman hordes) at the time.

I do however, have a thought tumbling around. Looking at the housing and villages / towns near by on google earth, there sure seems to be a fairly large population living on and around the mountain. If so many of these things - things of extreme importance should they be true, have happened in such detail as the story's above have been described. Then why is it that all of these people in the surrounding villages do not / haven't experienced all of these strange things occurring around them? I'd have thought this news would be everywhere and have been proven given Hitler studying it, and I would have to imagine large amounts of expeditions etc. to the mountain.

Hope no one else has posted about this, but there are many similar accounts from Jaques Vallee's book Passport to Magonia. Sounds so similar to Fae experiences, the missing time especially.

There is also mentioned in Passport a place, I think, in the mountains in Tibet which has legends of very similar phenomena, i.e. abductions, missing time, small people with greyish skin color and large heads and eyes.

There are also many accounts from all over of persons who have witnessed unidentified aircraft flying into doorways in the side of mountains. Then, when they returned to where they saw the craft enter the mountain, there was no entrance to be found.

Wochenblatt 2001
Sueostbayerische 2007
Thule Gesellschaft
Lords of the Black Stone

The occultist Baron Rudolf von Sebottendorf, the Gurdjeff disciple Karl Haushofer, the ace pilot Lothar Waisz, Prelate Gernot of the secret "Societas Templi Marcioni" (The Inheritors of the Knights Templar) and Maria Orsic, a transcendental medium from Zagreb met in Vienna. They all had extensively studied the "Golden Dawn", its teachings, rituals and especially its knowledge about Asian secret lodges. Sebottendorf and Haushofer were experienced travellers of India and Tibet and much influenced by the teachings and myths of those places. During the First World War Karl Haushofer had made contacts with one of the most influential secret societies of Asia, the Tibetan Yellow Hats" (dGe-lugs-pa). This sect was formed in 1409 by the Buddhist reformer Tsong-kha-pa. Haushofer was initiated and swore to commit suicide should his mission fail. The contacts between Haushofer and the Yellow Hats led in the Twenties to the formation of Tibetan colonies in Germany.

The four young people hoped that during these meetings in Vienna they would learn something about the secret revelatory texts of the Knights Templar and also about the secret fraternity Die Herren vom Schwarzen Stein ("The Lords of the Black Stone"). Prelate Gernot was of the "Inheritors of the Knights Templar", the only true Templar society. They are the descendants of the Templars of 1307 who passed on their secrets from father to son - until today. Prelate Gernot apparently told them about the advent of a new age - the change-over from the Age of Pisces to the Age of Aquarius.

They discussed that our solar year - according to the twelve revolutions of the moon - was divided into twelve months and thus the revolution of our sun around the great central sun (the Black Sun of ancient myths) was also divided into twelve parts. Together with the precession of the cone-shaped proper movement of the Earth due to the inclination of the axis this determines the length of the world age. Such a "cosmic month" is then 2,155 years, the "cosmic year" 25,860 years long. According to the Templars the next change is not just an ordinary change of the age, but also the end of a cosmic year and the start of an absolutely new one.

The main part of the discussions dealt with the background of a section of the New Testament, Matthew 21:43. For there Jesus addressed the Jews:

"Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit."
The complete original text that is kept in the archives of the "Societas Ternpli Marcioni" says it even more clearly. But the point is: In that text Jesus actually names the "people", He talks to Teutons serving in the Roman legion and he tells them that it is THEIR people that he had chosen. That was what Sebottendorf and his friends wanted to know for sure: That the Teutonic, i.e. the German, people were commissioned to form the realm of light upon Earth - in the "Land of the Midnight Mountain" (Germany). The place where the ray would meet the Earth was given as the Untersberg near Salzburg.

At the end of September 1917 Sebottendorf met with members of the "Lords of the Black Stone" at the Untersberg to receive the power of the "Black-Purple Stone" after which the secret society was named.

The "Lords of the Black Stone" who formed out of the Marcionite Templar societies in 1221 led by Hubertus Koch who had set as their aim the fight against evil and the building of Christ's realm of light. 

At the end of September 1917 Sebottendorf met with members of the "Lords of the Black Stone" at the Untersberg to receive the power of the "Black-Purple Stone" after which the secret society was named.

The "Lords of the Black Stone" who formed out of the Marcionite Templar societies in 1221 led by Hubertus Koch who had set as their aim the fight against evil and the building of Christ's realm of light.

A circle formed around Baron von Sebottendorf that via the "Teutonic Order" in 1918 in Bad Aibling became the "Thule Gesellschaft". The themes they tried to link to politics were scientific magic, astrology, occultism and Templar knowledge as well as "Golden Dawn" practices like Tantra, Yoga and Eastern meditation.

The Thule-Gesellschaft believed, following the Revelation of Isais, in a Coming Saviour (German: Heiland = the Holy One), the "Third Sargon" who would bring to Germany glory and a new Aryan culture.

Some of the most important teachings influencing the Thule-Gesellschaft was the Aryo-Germanic construction of religion (Wihinei) by the philosopher Guido von List, the Glacial Cosmology by Hans Hörbiger and a leaning towards the anti-Old Testament early Christianity of the Marcionites. The innermost circle at any rate had vowed to fight World Judaism and Freemasonry and its lodges. 

Far from being a fringe secret society, the Thule society had members that reached into the German Aristocracy. It essentially had all of the beliefs expounded by Rosenberg and was the group that Hitler first came to at the beginnings of his rise to power. The Thule society came into being during that tumultuous period after the first  World War by Baron Rudolf Sebottendorff, who wrote about this in a book that was later banned by the Nazi’s ‘Bevor Hitler Kam (Before Hitler Came). Indeed this book is quite important in tracing the early philosophical leanings of the party. The Thule Society was not open to the middle class or the workers of Germany.

It was exclusively a rich man’s society and drew its members from the upper echelons of Bavarian Society. Indeed one had to show pure Aryan lineage back to the 30 Years War in order to join, one could not be deformed or even be just plain old ‘ugly’, one had to be one of the ‘beautiful people’. It was at this time that the Prime Minister of the Bavarian government, Kurt Eisner (a Jew) was assassinated by a disgruntled young count Anton Graf Arco, who had been refused admission to the Thule Society, presumably because  he was of Jewish decent. One of the prime suspects that the police questioned was the Thule Society’s leader.  Here we can understand that elitism and racism was an important part of the belief systems of those who formulated the early Nazi doctrine.  The assassination transpired in an atmosphere of general fear among the Bavarian elite that Bolsheivism (communism, and with it wealth confiscation) was making important inroads at the end of the war and that there was too much ‘Jewish influence’. This was ‘confirmed’ by the election of the Jewish socialist, Kurt Eisner.

Sebottendorff, the leader of the Thule society, was known as an adept at astrology, alchemy divining rods and other occult practices and it was his belief that the Jews were really in control of the Freemasonic lodges that probably led to their eventual seizure and closure when the Nazi’s took power. Indeed, the whole idea of brotherhood that typified freemasonic beliefs was at odds with what the Thulists believed. Indeed Sebottendorff went so far as to say that ‘equality is death’.  Thus, freemasons were also singled out by the Naz’s. He spread his propaganda through Der Münchener Beobachter a newspaper that he purchased because he needed an avenue with which to spread his profane doctrine. 

SOURCE: Gesellschaft

The Tibetan Connection

A frequent visitor to Landsberg Prison where Hitler was writing Mein Kampf with the help of Rudolf Hess, was General Karl Haushofer, a university professor and director of the Munich Institute of Geopolitics. Haushofer, Hitler, and Hess had long conversations together. Hess also kept records of these conversations. Hitler's demands for German "Living Space" in the east at the expense of the Slavic nations were based on the geopolitical theories of the learned professor.

Haushofer was also inclined toward the esoteric. as military attaché in Japan, he had studied Zen-Buddhism. He had also gone through initiations at the hands of Tibetan Lamas. He became Hitler's second "esoteric mentor", replacing Dietrich Eckart. In Berlin, Haushofer had founded the Luminous Lodge or the Vril Society. The lodge's objective was to explore the origins of the Aryan race and to perform exercises in concentration to awaken the forces of "Vril". Haushofer was a student of the Russian magician and metaphysician Gregor Ivanovich Gurdyev (George Gurdjieff).

Both Gurdjeiff and Haushofer maintained that they had contacts with secret Tibetan Lodges that possessed the secret of the "Superman". The lodge included Hitler, Alfred Rosenberg, Himmler, Göring, and Hitler's subsequent personal physician Dr. Morell. It is also known that Aleister Crowley and Gurdjieff sought contact with Hitler. Hitler's unusual powers of suggestion become more understandable if one keeps in mind that he had access to the "secret" psychological techniques of the esoteric lodges. Haushofer taught him the techniques of Gurdjieff which, in turn, were based on the teachings of the Sufis and the Tibetan Lamas and familiarized him with the Zen teaching of the Japanese Society of the Green Dragon.

In the latter half of the previous century, intriguing hints about Tibetan secret teachings had been carried to the west by Helena Blavatsky, who claimed initiation at the hands of the Holy Lamas themselves. Blavatsky taught that her Hidden Masters and Secret Chiefs had their earthly residence in the Himalayan region.

As soon as the Nazi movement had sufficient funds, it began to organize a number of expeditions to Tibet and these succeeded one another practically without interruption until 1943. One of the most tangible expressions of Nazi interest in Tibet was the party’s adoption of its deepest and most mystical of symbols - the Swastika.

The swastika is one of mankind's oldest symbols, and apart from the cross and the circle, probably the most widely distributed. It is shown on pottery fragments from Greece dating back to the eighth century B.C. It was used in ancient Egypt, India and China. The Navaho Indians of North America have a traditional swastika pattern. Arab-Islamic sorcerers used it. In more recent times, it was incorporated in the flags of certain Baltic states.

SOURCE: Gesellschaft

The Knights Templar Connection

Isais and the Untersberg 

What was the legend of the Untersberg mountain, at which Hitler spent many hours gazing from his study in the Berghof? Historians guess that, like King Arthur, Frederick Barbarossa is buried there, waiting for a call to arise from the dead to come to his country's aid in its hour of need. That is not the legend of the Untersberg, though.

Isais with the Gral

In 1220, Templar Komtur Hubertus Koch, returning with a small party from the Crusades, passed through Mesopotamia, and near the old city of Nineveh in modern Iraq, received an apparition of the goddess Isais (first child of goddess Isis and god Set). She told him to withdraw to the Untersberg mountain, build a house there and await her next apparition.

Whether that is true or not, in 1221, Koch erected his first Komturei at the foot of Ettenberg near Markt Schellenberg. A second, larger structure followed. It is believed that over the next few years, underground galleries were excavated into various areas of the Untersberg, and in one of them a temple to Isais was built.

German Ordensmeister of the Knights Templar

A second apparition occurred in 1226 and were repeated on occasions until 1238. During this period the Templars received "Die Isais Offenbarung", a series of prophesies (recently published) and information concerning the Holy Grail. The Templars at Jerusalem had knowledge of these visitations, over which the Church drew a veil of silence. What follows is only tradition, but may be of interest.
It is the German tradition that the Templars were ordered to form a secret scientific sect in southern Germany, Austria and northern Italy to be known as "Die Herren vom Schwarzen Stein" - The Lords of the Black Stone - or DHvSS for short, and this is said to be the true, hidden meaning of SS.
The Holy Grail ("Ghral" is holy stone, Persian-Arabic) was said to be a black-violet crystal, half quartz, half amethyst, through which Higher Powers communicated with humanity. It was given into the safe-keeping of the Cathars, and smuggled out of the last stronghold at Montsegur, France, and hidden, by four Cathar women on the night of 14 March 1244. There is a Cathar legend that 700 years after the destruction of the Cathar religion the Holy Grail would be returned to its rightful holders, DHvSS, or the SS?

Ruins of Montsegur

It may be of interest to note in this connection that the Tea House designed by Hitler and built atop the Mooslahnerkopf at Obersalzberg, the stone pavillion still standing today, bears a striking resemblance to Montsegur when viewed at certain angles from the foot of the great rocky outcrop. Whether this was a coincidence remains in the mind of the beholder.

In 1917 the occultist Baron Rudolf von Sebottendorf, the Gurdjeff disciple Karl Haushofer, the engineer and ace pilot Lothar Waiz, Prelate Gernot of the secret "Societas Templi Marcioni" (The Inheritors of the Knights Templar) and Maria Orsic, a transcendental medium from Zagreb met in Vienna. They all had extensively studied the "Golden Dawn", its teachings, rituals and especially its knowledge about Asian secret lodges.

The four young people hoped that during these meetings in Vienna they would learn something about the secret revelatory texts of the Knights Templar and also about the secret fraternity Die Herren vom Schwarzen Stein ("The Lords of the Black Stone"). Prelate Gernot was of the "Inheritors of the Knights Templar", the only true Templar society. They are the descendants of the Templars of 1307 who passed on their secrets from father to son - until today. Prelate Gernot apparently told them about the advent of a new age - the change-over from the Age of Pisces to the Age of Aquarius.

In Matthew 21:43, Jesus addressed the Jews:

"Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit."
The complete original text that is kept in the archives of the "Societas Ternpli Marcioni" says it even more clearly. But the point is: In that text Jesus actually names the "people", He talks to Teutons serving in the Roman legion and he tells them that it is THEIR people that he had chosen. That was what Baron Rudolf von Sebottendorf, founder of the Thule Society, and his friends wanted to know for sure: That the Teutonic, i.e. the German, people were commissioned to form the realm of light upon Earth - in the "Land of the Midnight Mountain" (Germany). The place where the ray would meet the Earth was given as the Untersberg near Salzburg.

At the end of September 1917 Sebottendorf met with members of the "Lords of the Black Stone" at the Untersberg to receive the power of the "Black-Purple Stone" after which the secret society was named.

The "Lords of the Black Stone" who formed out of the Marcionite Templar societies in 1221 and were led by Hubertus Koch had set as their aim the fight against evil and the building of Christ's realm of light. In the eyes of the Thule Gesellschaft, from which later emerged the DAP (German Workers' Party), the NSDAP (National Socialist German Workers' Party), the SS (Schutzstaffel), the Jewish people who had been charged by the Old Testament god JAHVEH to "raise havoc on Earth" were the reason why the world was always caught up in war and discord


Originally posted by flymetothemoon ATS Post ID 4873727

In many different articles/blogs Hitlers search for the "Holy Grail" ref. isais-and-untersberg article...

The Society allegedly not only taught concentration exercises designed to awaken the forces of Vril, their main goal was to achieve Raumflug (Spaceflight) to reach Aldebaran. To achieve this, the Vril Society joined the Thule Gesellschaft and the alleged DHvSS (Die Herren des schwarzen Steins, The Masters of the Black Stone) to fund an ambitious program involving an inter-dimensional flight machine based on psychic revelations from the Aldebaran aliens.

Members of the Vril Society are said to have included Adolf Hitler, Alfred Rosenberg, Heinrich Himmler, Hermann Göring, and Hitler's personal physician, Dr. Theodor Morell. These were original members of the Thule Society which supposedly joined Vril in 1919. The NSDAP (National Sozialistische Deutsche ArbeiterPartei) was created by Thule in 1920, one year later. Dr. Krohn, who helped to create the Nazi flag, was also a Thulist.

With Hitler in power in 1933, both Thule and Vril Gesellschafts allegedly received official state backing for continued disc development programs aimed at both spaceflight and possibly a war machine.

Vril: The Power of the Coming Race

Other Links: The last Indiana Jones includes fights with the Nazis over the Holy Grail AND aliens LOL
The Black - Purple Stone

13darkknights said...

    My name is Emory Taylor and I am faced with an odd situation involving Prince Henry Senclair, the Zenos, the 1398 expedition, the Templar Treasure, spiritual/mystical enlightenment and the Holy Grail of the German Tradition, this being a stone, which according to a German legend is black and purple quartz, with the black on top of the purple. To explain requires my letter to be long, for which I apologies.

    I am the official biographer of Charles “Black Bart” Crawford. He was a prospector, miner, refiner, and treasure hunter in Arizona from 1970 until his death in 2007. I was also the curator of the Crawford Archive from 2005 until 2008 while the biography was being done. The Crawford biography is actually a trilogy of doc-u-books, called The Superstition Trilogy, and is free to the general public on the internet,

    A doc-u-book is a collection of documents with commentary by the editor --- in this case the documents are from the Crawford Archive, and the editor is me. Upon completing the biography I turned the Crawford Archive over to the Superstition Museum as had been requested by Crawford. In his will Crawford donated part of his estate to the Superstition Mountain Museum and Historical Society.

    For the third doc-u-book of the trilogy I transcribed a one hour and forty-five minute video tape Crawford made on July 4, 2002, and which he called “Champion Speaks Out Against The New World Order.” In the video, among other topics, Crawford tells the basics of his near death experience, which has to do with spiritual/mystical enlightenment and the odd situation I now face, and the reason I am contacting you.

    I know Crawford’s near death experience from personal conversations with him, and (of course) from the video. In the 1970s, during a trip in the Superstition Wilderness Area in the Sonoran Desert of Arizona, to his Cheryl Anne mining claims in the Upper La Barge Box, Crawford was traveling an ancient trail he had discovered. The Apache Indians were afraid of this ancient trail because it crossed what they called the Thunder Grounds, which is a place where they heard loud voices in a language they did not understand.
    Crawford had not brought along enough water and began to dehydrate in the desert heat. When he could not go on, and was giving up, positive he was going to die, he saw what he believed to be an Angel. This Angel guided Crawford to a pool of cold water with a Trout swimming in it. Of course the water saved his life.

    Crawford found a bar which he sometimes described as a black bar, and sometimes described as a black and purple bar. Crawford said voices, speaking in a strange language, emanated from the bar. He took the bar to his Cheryl Anne mining claims and buried it there. Crawford would then commune with God on his Deity mining claim, which is one of the claims collectively known as the Cheryl Anne claims. From these communions with God on the Deity claim, Crawford believed he received an ordainment from God, was God’s Messenger, that he was to find the hidden (or lost) scrolls and tablets, and was to bind the Superstition Wilderness Area as a safe haven for believers during the End Times, because there are underground dwellings there, and these underground dwelling connect to underground dwelling all over the earth, and he spoke of UFOs.

    In the video the only part of the story he left out was the finding of the bar. Crawford would, for whatever reason, only tell about the finding of the bar in privet conversations with those whom he trusted. Crawford was in possession of a quantity of a black and purple quartz. For whatever reason, he put the black and purple quartz in small cans, some of which were one quart Mobil Oil cans and small coffee cans, and hid them at his home and his Burns Ranch mining claims, called the Thank You claims, which are in the foothills of the Superstition Mountains.

    This is very odd … because … in a German Templar Tradition and Grail cycle the Holy Grail is not a cup but is instead a stone, the Holy Stone, and it is black and purple quartz on which writing appears and then disappears, and from which voices emanate. In the 1930s Otto Rahn was in southern France investigation Wolfram van Eschenbach’s poem Parzvial, which is one of the three epic poems of the German Grail Cycle. His guide, who was a descendent of the Cathars who had escaped the Albigensian Crusade by fleeing into what became Switzerland, showed Otto an ancient trail, going from Mount Montsegur to Mount Tabor, along which is a lake of dark waters called Lake of the Trout, which is the cradle of thunder. The guide, fearful, told Otto not to throw any stones into the lake because it would provoke a storm and lightening will destroy you.

    Of course it should be obvious that the similarities are striking: both Crawford’s story and Otto’s story involve an ancient trail, a place of thunder, people being afraid, and quartz that is black and purple. Crawford never spoke of the Knights Templar. What he did say was that a person had to be a High Spiritualist, an initiate of 72 degrees, to use the black and purple bar he found in order to commune with God. I have never head of a 72 degree initiate before or of a High Spiritualist. Crawford said the quartz had been used in a sex ritual to commune with the High Spirits, and this had been done starting in the 1200s through the 1500s when the ore was hidden.

    Prior to his death, Crawford sent me out to his Burns Ranch claims with what I call the Crawford Treasure Code, which is a bunch of scribblings, drawings, two foreign alphabets, and some words written is strange letters. He described the general place to go as he drew the treasure code. He wanted me to retrieve one of his hidden stashes. Before I could undertake this treasure hunting adventure, Crawford and I had a falling out, which of course we latter patched up.

    During the falling out period Crawford became gravely ill and was transported to a hospital, and after treatment was sent to a nursing home. Crawford never returned home. A friend and I undertook the treasure hunting adventure and found Crawford’s stash of black and purple quartz. I went to the nursing home and spoke to Crawford. He told me it was too late for him: death was coming and there was nothing that could be done, and that he had failed in his mission, in that he had not found the scrolls and tablets. He told me to keep the black and purple quartz.

    The Burns Ranch, where Crawford’s Thank You claims were located, and where the black and purple quartz was found, is said to be haunted. Old man Burns, who had been treasure hunting, mining silver, and trading with the Apache Indians, buried several treasure troves at his ranch. Burns died from wounds he received when he was ambushed transporting treasure to California. His partner took Burns back to the Burns ranch where old man Burns died from his wounds, but not until after he put a curse on the hidden treasure troves, because he thought his partner was in on the ambush, believing his partner wanted both Mrs. Helen Burns, and the treasures for himself.

    The partner, Louis Humphrey died of lymphoma, which has symptoms similar to those the curse was to cause. Humphrey got sick while at the Burns Ranch but died in a hospital. Helen Burns received two bullets to the head while at the Burns Ranch with infamous treasure hunter Robert “Crazy Jake” Jacob. She died at a hospital. Kary Ballard was shot dead on the Burns Ranch while there treasure hunting with Lloyd Sutton.

    As the Burns Ranch is said to be haunted and the treasure troves are said to be cursed, we, treasure hunter Rick Gwynne and I, undertook an investigation of the haunting and curse as part of the Crawford biography. Of course, we are not paranormal investigators so we contacted local paranormal groups to do the investigation. One group completed their investigation in March 2008. Their report declared that there is low level paranormal activity occurring at the Burns Ranch. Two of the paranormal investigators felt disorientated when handling the polished quartz. Only three of the quartz stones were polished. All the others are in the form of mineral ore.

    We decided to have some psychics handle the black and purple quartz and tell me their impressions. We contacted Holly Matthews. She was having a get-to-gather for psychics. We attended with the quartz and a couple of my friends. There were 54 psychics at the meeting. The following is a list of statements made by 17 of the psychics. We arranged their statements in categories.
    A journey and Merlin type beings associated with the quartz.
    Saw people, four men, carrying an ark like object with poles through rings. The quartz had been inside the ark like object.
    The quartz was originally transported in a leather or canvas bag.
    from some where else
    from some where else
    Near by
    Something like a pot of gold, a treasure, is located near by where the quartz was found, as is a underground passage.
    Felt something was deep in the ground near the place of the quartz.
    near the place it was found there is an underground passage, and a portal or transportation spot of some kind
    Place where found
    a deterrent there to prevent discovery.
    something was wrong in the place of the quartz and the place needed to be cleared.
    Used for ritual
    People of a secret sect use the quartz for an inner journey, an explosive instance of awareness.
    people had used it to interact with it
    they did a ritual around it
    used in a ritual involving pain, a lot of pain
    a lot of energy
    felt scared energy
    felt strong as the Sun
    extreme energy
    Physical feeling
    causing her finger tips to tingle
    caused her shake
    caused vibration, energy in her solar plexus
    felt hot, extremely hot
    felt warm
    It is cursed
    it was cursed
    Bad things associated
    linked to the dark side and
    from the deep, dark side
    big problems are associated with it
    murder was associated with it
    evil is associated with it
    Deliberately hidden
    had been deliberately hidden to keep it away from people because something evil is attached to it
    someone had been digging up the quartz, because it had been put away, hidden on purpose
    Get rid of it
    should be gotten rid of
    should be gotten rid of
    Did not touch
    immediately put the quartz down [would not pick it back up]
    refused to touch it
    did not want to touch anything
    Two statements did not fit into a category
    The quartz had something to do with Jesus.
    The quartz formed over different time periods. The purple when wonderful things happened. The black when bad things happened.
    The polished quartz was altered in that the black quartz had been removed and the purple quartz had been polished. Only three psychics commented about the polished quartz. Two of them picked up on the alteration saying
    The polished quartz was not very strong …
    The polished quartz is much more subtle than the unpolished quartz.

    In the 1970s Crawford found the so-called 1568 Jesuit Stone in Bark’s Draw, which is just inside the Superstition Wilderness Area from the Peralta Trailhead. On February 10, 1981 Crawford loaned the so-called 1568 Jesuit Stone to the Central Arizona Museum of History. We have a copy of this document. He thought it was a marker to a treasure.

    For whatever reason he thought it was a Jesuit treasure. He contacted the Jesuit Society in Tucson, Arizona by telephone. He wanted to excavate the treasure under the Jesuit auspice. According to a letter by Rev. Charles W. Polzer , S.J., of the American Division Jesuit Historical Institute document, dated October 19, 1983, Crawford had his facts wrong so the treasure could not possible be Jesuit, and the Jesuits had no auspice to grant, and Crawford would have to take the matter up with the Cardinal Secretary of State at the Vatican. We have a copy of this letter.

    In this same time period Crawford was in a legal battle with the Federal Government over the validity of his Cheryl Anne mining claims. Under oath, on the witness stand, Crawford and two witnesses, Larry Billman and Mr. Smith, testified that Crawford was living in a pup tent in Billman’s back yard because Crawford was “in a financial state of embracement.” Yet with in weeks Crawford had $50,000 dollars to establish a pilot plant to process his Cheryl Anne ore. We have a copy of the transcripts. In the Crawford Archive, which I had possession of from 2005 until 2008, there is no document detailing where the $50,000 came from, or exactly how the pilot plant was financed.

    Adding one more thing, on the Crawford Treasure Code, one of the drawings is the same emblem used by the Central Arizona Museum of History, the very museum to which Crawford loaned the so-called 1568 Jesuit Stone. The conclusion is rather obvious. Crawford dug up the treasure, used part of it to finance the pilot plant, and then re-buried the rest of the treasure at the Burn Ranch, which is why the emblem for the museum is on the treasure code.

    There is also the story told by Bert Morrison, one of Crawford’s former security guards at the Burns Ranch Thank You claims. Crawford was searching for a cave that had a stagecoach from the 1800s in it. The stagecoach had been carrying gold, and had been robbed by bandits. These bandits took the stagecoach to a cave, and caused the cave to collapse, and absconded with the gold.

    Crawford found a small cave opening near the top of a rock outcropping. But it turned out to be just a very small cave. However, it contained the small stockpile of black and purple quartz. According to this story, the black and purple quartz was traded by the Apache Indians to old man Burns. They brought it from the Thunder Ground to show to Burns hopping he could tell them what it was, and wanting to show him the Thunder Grounds, because they thought it had something to do with white people.

    As you can tell, we do not know for certain exactly where Crawford got the black and purple quartz. But we have learned that In 1220, Templar Komtur Hubertus Koch, returning with a small party from the Crusades, passed through Mesopotamia, and near the old city of Nineveh in modern Irak received an apparition of the goddess Isais (first child of goddess Isis and god Set). She told him to withdraw to the Untersberg mountain, build a house there and await her next apparition.

    In 1221, Koch erected his first Komturei at the foot of Ettenberg near Markt Schellenberg. A second, larger structure followed. It is believed that over the next few years underground galleries were excavated into various areas of the Untersberg, and in one of them a temple to Isais was built.

    A second apparition occurred in 1226 and were repeated on occasions until 1238. During this period the Templars received "Die Isais Offenbarung", a series of prophesies (recently published) and information concerning the Holy Grail. The Templars at Jerusalem had knowledge of these visitations, over which the Church drew a veil of silence. What follows is only Tradition, but may be of interest.
    It is the German tradition that the Templars were ordered to form a secret scientific sect in southern Germany, Austria and northern Italy to be known as "Die Herren vom Schwarzen Stein" or "DHvSS" for short, and this is the true, hidden meaning of "SS".

    The Holy Grail ("Ghral"=holy stone, Persian/Arabic) was said to be a black-violet crystal, half quartz, half amethyst, through which Higher Powers communicated with humanity. It was given into the safe-keeping of the Cathars, and smuggled out of the last stronghold at Montsegur, France, and hidden, by four Cathar women on the night of 14 March 1244. There is a Cathar legend that 700 years after the destruction of the Cathar religion the Holy Grail would be returned to its rightful holders, DHvSS, or the SS.

    It is important that one of the place of the German secret scientific sect is northern Italy. As you most likely know the Zeno family of Venice, Italy had the transportation rights between Venice and the Holy Land during the Crusades. Carlo Zeno (1333 - 1418) was a naval hero of Venice. He saved Venice in 1380 in the Battle of Chioggia when the Genoese attacked. From 1405 - 1418 he was a mercenary for hire in the Mediterranean. His brothers were Nicolo (c.1326 - 1402) and Antonio (???? - 1003).

    In 1558 the great-great-grandson son of Nicolo Zeno, who was also named Nicolo Zeno, anonymously published a book with the long title The Discovery of the Islands of Frislandia, Eslanda, Engronelands, Estotilanda, and Icaria; Made by the Two Brothers of the Zeno Family, Namely Messire Nicolo, the Chevalier, and Messire Antonio. With a Map of the Said Islands. This book has been dubbed The Zeno Narrative.

    The subject of The Zeno Narrative is an expedition allegedly undertaken by Nicolo, Antonio, and Prince Henry Sinclair (spelled St. Clair in France) of Orkney (now part of Scotland) in the North Atlantic, ending up in what is now Nova Scotia and New England. I will refer to this expedition as the 1398 Sinclair-Zeno expedition.

    The Zeno Narrative was compiled from letters written by Nicolo and Antonio, and a map, now referred to as the Zeno Map. There are two fractions, one Pro and one Con, which hotly dispute the validity of The Zeno Narrative.

    According to the Pro fraction (who support the validity of The Zeno Narrative), the Zenos departed northern Italy (Venice) in 1398, sailing the Mediterranean, and eastern Atlantic to Orkney (Scotland), meeting up with Prince Henry Sinclair. It was Prince Henry Sinclair led the 1398 Sinclair-Zeno expedition on its departure from Orkney. They sailed the north Atlantic to Faroes, Iceland, Greenland, Labrador, Nova Scotia (Guysborough), and America (Newport). The Zenos returned right away but Prince Henry Sinclair and some of his men did not.

    A colony was established, and the inhabitants are believed to have married into Indian tribes and migrated westward away from the eastern seaboard. Thus the possibility that at least part of the Templar’s Treasure which may have included the Holy Stones made it to North America.

    Prince Henry Sinclair was born in 1345 and was the son and heir of William Sinclair, Lord of Roslin, and Isobel of Strathearn, a daughter of Maol Ísa, Earl of Orkney. According to the official Clain Sinclair website,, 1379 Henry made Jarl (Prince or Earl) of Orkney and Lord of Shetland by King Haakon VI of Norway at Marstrand. 1389 Henry Slays Malise Sperra near Scalloway, Shetland. 1391 Henry conquers Faroe Islands. 1398 Prince Henry's voyage sails to New world. 1398 Henry lands at Trin harbour, now Chadebucto Bay Nova Scotia. 1399 Henry in Massachusetts and Rhode Island Evidence at Westford and the Newport Tower. 1400 Prince Henry killed in Orkney he is succeeded by his son Henry 2nd Earl of Orkney.

    There is no firm evidence on when Henry died. The Sinclair Diploma, written or at least commissioned by his grandson states: "...he retirit to the parts of Orchadie and josit them to the latter tyme of his life, and deit Erile of Orchadie, and for the defence of the country was slain there cruellie by his enemiis..." We also know that sometime in 1401: "The English invaded, burnt and spoiled certain islands of Orkney." The assumption is that Henry either died in this invasion, or was already dead.

    According to Tim Wallace - Murphy and Marilyn Hopkins, authors of Templars In America: From Crusade to the New World, Henry’s distant relative Henri de St. Clair, when he was Baron of Roslin and Pentland, fought in the first crusade at the battle for Jerusalem.
    According to Christopher Knight and Robert Lomas, authors of The Hiram Key, the founder of Templars Hugh de Payns was married to a sister of the Duke of Champaine (Henri de St. Clair), who was a powerful broker of the first Crusade and had the political power to nominate the Pope, and to suggest the idea and empower it to the Pope. This is contested by Thierry Leroy, a biography of Hugues de Payen.

    According to other authors, such as William E. Mann, and Steven Sora, several of Henry’s immediate relatives (grand-uncles, etc) were Templars, and still living when Henry was young.

    In 1566 a man named Zaltieri made a map called Zaltieri’s 1566 map. It clearly shows North America. It also shows what becomes the state of Arizona and the Superstition Mountains, next to which it shows a settlement named Chucho. Thus the possibility that members of the Sinclair colony, who may have had at least part of the Templar Treasure, which may have included the black and purple quartz Holy Stones, made it to the Superstition Mountains in Arizona, in the area of both the Burns Ranch and Bark’s Draw, both of which are possible places where Crawford found the black and purple quartz of which Rick Gwynne and I are in possession, and the Thunder Ground, the location of which is not known, is said to be between the Burns Ranch and the Upper La Barge Box.

    At this point it should be obvious that Rick and I are looking for one or both of the following.

    someone from either the Sinclair or Zeno families who might know more about the Templar Treasure and the possibility that the Holy Stones were part of the 1398 expedition led by Prince Henry Sinclair, and who could examine our black and purple quartz to determine if they were part of the treasure,
    someone or some group associated with the German Tradition from southern Germany, Austria, or northern Italy who is a High Spiritualist who can examine the black and purple quartz and determine if they are the Holy Stones.

    I would think that before they could be used in some sex ritual to contact the High Spirits they would have to have the Burns curse removed. I would think the Burns curse would prevent them from functioning properly.

    It seems to me, at the very least, even with the Burns curse preventing the proper function, the black and purple quartz constitutes a relic of the German Tradition, especially of Wolfram van Eschenbach, proving that his version was in fact NOT based on Chretien de Troyes’ version, and that the Templars were the guardians of the True Grail, a stone of black and purple quartz, and that Prince Henry Sinclair and the Zenos not only undertook the expedition to the New World in 1398 but brought part of the Templar Treasure with them, namely the German Holy Stones.

    If you know of anyone or any group who can help please contact us.
    Thank you for your time. I know my letter was long and we apologies.

    Emory Taylor and Rick Gwynne
    26 April 2009 17:30 


The Superstition Trilogy

  • The Treasure Box Conspiracy
    • Long Version ..... edited by Emory Taylor
    • Short Version ..... edited by Emory Taylor and Rick Gwynne
    • Email Emory Taylor at
  • The Ones What Done It - edited by Emory Taylor
  • The Deity - edited by Emory Taylor

Note: Add info on T.H. Moray's 'Swedish Stone'

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS Post ID 4876640

Here's the link in a larger resolution:

"We need to stick to the facts"
Search operation between reality and mysticism - Daniken report over 'time jump'


I was about halfway through translating it, and than accidently hit the refresh button...  5:43 AM here now, I'll re-try tomorrow.

In a nutshell, it deals about that a man (an electrician named Herrmann Forster) has gone missing with his wife Maria and her friend Monika Köhn. The police investigated the case, and in his appartment they found documents concerning the matter of time-jumps in this area. At the moment the article was written, the police wasn't sure if he wanted to actually do a time-jump, or just visit the places that can be found in various publications.

The police makes it clear that they "need to stick to the facts" (which is the headline of the article), and have to banish the posibillity of a time-jump to pure mysticism, but yet follow every vague hint, which makes it really tough to draw the line between reality and mysticism.

The article further mentions that the Untersberg and the time-jump experiments assume to happened there were also mentioned in some of Erich von Dänikens books. These deal with a phonemenom, that people stay on the same place for several days, but to them it feels like only a few minutes. Last important thing is that the police consider the case to be non-criminal and that the time-jump documents they found in the man's appartment are the only suspicious things in the life of the three missing people. They mention a piece of clothing they found outside a cave in a bush, which they state could belong to Monika Köhn.

A large nutshell... :) Not a word-by-word translation, but the above includes everything important, imho. 

Additional Research that May be Connected
Research into Portals

Originally posted by whitewave Post ID 4868000

Thanks for a prompt response, Sky, but I'm wondering if the strict-writing Catholics in the area have the story recorded.  Link?

If there are hundreds of these time slip stories from that area (or pertaining to mountains in general), I find it difficult to believe that they are not the most studiously researched subject on the planet.  I understand that there are many mysteries that require study to unravel but time travel?  That's gotta be at least in the top 5 "check it out" fields of research.  Have we become (or always been) so blasse' that something of this pith and moment is brushed off as "cool.  what's for lunch?"

I guess what I'm asking is: Has anyone seriously investigated these anomalies, and if so, what were their findings?  Are further investigations planned?  If scientific investigation into the phenomena have revealed data, what has been done with the findings?  Any new inventions?  Patents?  Weapons? 

Thanks for a fascinating topic and for your responses. 

Lookup Dwarf Garden Salzburg

Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs

Caves in Untersberg

Originally posted by saturnus1962
Some general info:

Untersberg FAQ - frequently asked questions

Where does the name Untersberg derive from? The oldest written document of the name Untersberg can be found in the records by archbishop Kondrad IV of Salzburg from June 28th, 1306 and is written as Vndarnsperch. The meaning of the name can be derived from "untern", which was the saying for an afternoon snack in this area. When the sun was above the mountain - viewed from the City of Salzburg - it was time for a rest and for a snack. Concerning an older opinion it is the "Berg der Unteren" - the mountain of the people carried away. 

Number of caves known about 400, 151 described in the Salzburger Höhlenbuch I & IVof the Landesverein für Höhlenkunde in Salzburg 
The largest caves Gamslöcher-Kolowrats-system and the Windlöcher-system with a length of about 16.9 km 
Known ice-caves Schellenberg ice-cave, Kolowrats cave (ice melted away to a large extent) and Großer Eiskeller (Karl ice-cave) 
The deepest ice-cave Salzburg shaft, about 600 m deep (known) 
Finds of cave-bears Gamslöcher - Bärenhorst, finds displayed in Haus der Natur

Natural Gateways

Naturally occurring anomalous teleportation phenomena that were previously studied by the United States and foreign governments were also documented in the study and are reviewed in the report.

Mt Shasta

Originally posted by kdial1  Post ID 4865389
Great thread!!

This reminds me of a similar legend on Mt Shasta in Northern California about the Lemurians, here is a snippet of the story:

Mount Shasta is a very special place to say the least; it represents much more than just a mere mountain. Mount Shasta can be considered as one of the most sacred places on this planet. The mountain is a mystic power source for this planet; actually, this sacred mountain is an incarnation of the Great Central Sun of this universe. It is a focus for angels, spirit-guides, spaceships, masters from the Light Realm, and the home of the survivors of Ancient Lemuria, which sank under the waves of the Pacific Ocean a little over 12,000 years ago. For those gifted with clairvoyant abilities, Mount Shasta is embraced in a gigantic, etheric purple pyramid whose capstone reaches far beyond this planet into space, and connects us intergalactically to the Confederation of Planets for this sector of the Milky Way Galaxy. This awesome pyramid is also created as an inverted version of itself, reaching far down to the very core of the Earth. You can call Mount Shasta the entry point of the Light-Grids of this planet, where most of the energy comes first from the galactic and universal core before it is disseminated to other mountains and into the grids. Most mountaintops, especially tall mountains, are Beacons of Light, feeding the light-grids of this planet.

Strange lights and sounds are often seen or heard on the mountain. Lenticular clouds, shadows and outstanding sunsets add to the mystical aura of the mountain. Several tunnels stretch far into the interior of this majestic mountain. Mount Shasta is also the home of the present-day Lemurians, survivors of the sinking of the continent of Lemuria over 12,000 years ago. Yes, our Lemurian brothers and sisters are real; they are well and physically alive, living in the subterranean city of "Telos" underneath sacred Mount Shasta.

More at this source

I Remember hearing about it on Coast to coast and about an expediation that went there and found something JC brown was his name.  This was a very interesting C2C and this fits directly into this thread.  Listen to the link above.

Pineal Gland and DMT

Originally posted by Vehemens Post ID 4865310

My take on it:

I think these energy or electro magnetic fields mess with the pineal gland somehow. The pineal gland (3rd eye) releases DMT, a psychedelic substance responsible for making us dream. Many people who take DMT see the infamous grey aliens and describe what seems like an abduction experience. Furthermore while on DMT time seems to stop. A minute looks like a lifetime but when the journey ends most people don't remember a single thing or forget everything minutes later.
Now, two of my uncles had some hallucinogenic experiences because of depressions. One was missing for 2 weeks. I'll tell you, it's scary, in his mind my father had died and my mother was talking to him by telepathy for the entire 2 weeks. Imagine his face when he saw my father alive in front of him and my mother telling him she doesn't even believe in telepathy crap. lol he couldn't believe it. he was so sure. The other one talked to an UFO who said to meet him in Azores islands. :lol: Needless to say there was no UFO there... and both my uncles are over 40 and don't even believe in these things.
All these experiences are related to DMT and brain malfunctioning.

So, my take on "the mystery mountain" is that there is some kind of earth electromagnetic field that totally disrupts our brain neurotransmitters (remember, our brain is electrical). Probably some explorers trip so bad that they slip and die inside the caves. Others just leave and go wondering about God knows where until the brain short circuits again and they return to normal. They wont remember the lost time because that is the primary side effect of a heavy DMT experience.
I truly find this normal because I also had my share of Psychedelic Trance parties and I'm used to being around trippy hippies. I believe I saw everything already =)

Anyway, research a bit the pineal gland and DMT. ;)

Note: Add info on Tibetan Third Eye and Shaman Drug Use

Mount Penteli Cave in Athens, Greece

Originally posted by eudokimon ATS Post ID 4871868

This story is strangely similar to the Penteli Cave in Athens. Strange beings are seen there (an amature video on Greek TV showed last year a short ~ 4 feet brownish figure walking barefoot in there and becoming lost into a wall. It's the same place where the ancient Athenians cut the marble, the renowned Penteli marble to build the Parthenon. Cults and even Satanists do prculiar things there. Ozone has been measured in high dosages, paramagnetic phenomena with cars lights. In the 70's the cave was excavated by Americans to become a headquarters for NATO electronic warfare, due to the strange electromagnetic properties of the area. The plan was cancelled later and the cave was closed and altered with foreign material. They say the excavated rock was taken and the urban legends of Athens say that the place was a kind of portal or gate to the underground. From antiquity many tales are connected with it.

It is also called Ntaveli cave due to a famous and fierce thief called Davelis who with his gang in the end 19th century used the cave as hideout. In front of the cave there is a small church the one you see in the video

They say that the church is a safety protection measure.After the excavation. In the second video

The interior after the NTO excavation stopped was artificially altered with foreign material and rocks.The original way to the bottom is closed. It was towards that direction the supposed portal to the hollow earth. Many ancient myths refer to the hollow earth there. I don't believe it personally but treasures have been found there and people unexpectantly became rich. In 500 BC they worshipped the goat god Panas[Pan], you know the one who plays the flute. In the end of 70's the defence minister was asked for the purpose of the NATO excavations. In the parliament they said it was for military use but the press made word of a mysterious cover up.

Mount Penteli Greece: the Strange Goings on in Ntavelis's Cave

Mount Machapuchare in the Himilayas

Originally posted by serpentine Post ID 4869638

Mount Machapuchare in the Himilayas is the key to such mountain mysteries. Myth and religion often do record the fortean knowledge of times before the internet. The stories from Nepal from villages at the base in mountains are amazing and timeless. It is recorded in OLD BOOKS. But there is very little available in english on the net.

Google does NOT have the answers. When such an intriguing a subject as mysterious mountains, ufos and aliens emerge from eastern cultures who do not speak english, we need to go to old libraries and universities.

I've been trying to get more info on the mysterious happenings around Mt. Muchapuchare. It is one of the highest in the world (2nd?) and no one is allowed to climb it as it. It sacred to all the hindi/buddhist in India, Nepal, Tibet and China. Been there and researched it years ago but have found little information in english on the web since. I will go back there in a few months but only for a short time. 

Does anyone know more about this mountain. Sorry to change the subject from das german mountain. But there is a link with Muchapuchare and ufology, subdwellers etc, recorded for hundreds of years, maybe thousands. 

The kids there drew pictures of aliens and spaceships and point to the mountain describing amazing lights. For them they are the hindu gods, but on paper they drew greys and spaceships. These kids had no access to tv and american films. The older people in the villagers took it all more seriously.

There was talk that the ufo activity was there forever and older folk did speak more of modern spaceships and strange small beings although many indicated it was not a spiritual

Hiter had an interest in the region obviously and apparently the best library with the most information is in Llasa. Access is granted to academics. (Sorry no link). There is some info on this on the web in english.

So if anyone's gonna be in Tibet there is a cool place to start investigating the people from inside the earth.

Machapuchare, Nepal

Mount Annapurna, Nepal Height: 8.091 m, Known also as “Fish’s Tail” and the “Matterhorn of Nepal,” Machapuchare is considered sacred and is off-limits to climbers, but you can get a great view while Trekking the Annapurna Sanctuary.
Photo: baswallet
Moon Rising over Machapuchare Credit

Machapuchare or Machhaphuchhare (माछापुछ्रे) "Fish Tail" in English, is a mountain in the Annapurna Himal of north central Nepal. It is revered by the local population as particularly sacred to the god Shiva, and hence is off limits to climbing.

Climbing history

Machapuchare has never been climbed to its summit. The only attempt was in 1957 by a British team led by Jimmy Roberts. Climbers Wilfrid Noyce and A. D. M. Cox climbed to within 50 m of the summit via the north ridge, but did not complete the ascent; they had promised not to set foot on the actual summit. Since then, the mountain has been declared sacred, and it is now forbidden to climbers.

SOURCE: Wikipedia Machapuchare

King In the Mountain Stories

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan Post ID 4870264

I sat through another day at work, fed the kids, did i can read a little on this story....

I found this while searching out some info on the Mountain Kings stories (I keep hearing that song in my head):

In the year 1669 a peasant from the village of Reblingen who was hauling grain to Nordhausen was taken into the mountain by a little dwarf. He was told to empty out his grain and allowed to fill his sacks with gold in its place. He saw the emperor sitting there entirely motionless.
In addition, a dwarf led a shepherd into the mountain who had once played a tune on his flute that had pleased the emperor. The emperor stood up and asked: "Are ravens still flying around the mountain?" When the shepherd answered "yes," the Kaiser responded: "Then I must sleep for another hundred years."

I believe Byrd may have linked to it (i saw the page earlier today...but didn't have time to really read it).

King Barbarosa is attributed to a different mountain in the above (Kyffhäuser Mountain}.  Karl is attributed to Untersberg:

In this marvelous mountain sits Emperor Karl, a golden crown on his head, his scepter in his hand, and accompanied by other princely and noble lords. He went into a trance at Great Walserfeld, and has kept the same form that he had during his mortal life. His beard is grey and long, entirely covering his golden breastplate. On special occasions he divides his beard into two parts, half on his right side and half on his left, each tied with a precious pearl band. The emperor has a keen and profound look, and he is friendly and sociable toward all of his subjects who walk back and forth with him across a beautiful meadow. No one knows why he is there and what he intends to do. These remain mysteries of God.

Franz Sartori claims that it is Emperor Karl V., but others say that it is Frederick, who sits at a table around which his beard has grown more than two times. As soon as the the beard has reached the last corner of the table for the third time, the last days of the earth will have arrived. The Antichrist will appear; a battle will be fought on the fields at Wals; angels will sound their trumpets; and Judgment Day will have begun.

The thing about this to me is the inclusion of Christian mythos.  However, it is important to remember that the catholic church DID include many pagan stories and deities in the stories of saints and such.  It is not a stretch at all to think that these stories may predate Christianity by a considerable amount. 

Originally posted by DrBones666 Post ID 4869700
Everyone seems to have missed the biggest correlation between the legends and JRR Tolkiens LOTR.

The legends say that when someone wakens the King he will come with his army and help the righteous defeat the evil ones during the end of the world.

In LOTR Aragon, Gimli and Legolas trekked under a mountain to find the dead King and his legion of ghost warriors who then helped those on the side of good to defeat the forces of evil, thus preventing the end of the world.

Originally posted by patrickrpg Post ID 4866694

According to legend Emperor Frederick Barbarossa (of the Holy Roman Empire of German Nation) is half asleep inside Untersberg with his best knights where he is waiting to restore the German Empire to its former glory the day the ravens stop circling the mountain. Every day he sends out a boy to see if the ravens are still flying. His beard has grown through the table he is sitting at. There is a similar legend for the Kyffhäuser Mountain in Thüringen

King in the mountain stories involve legendary heroes, often accompanied by armed retainers, sleeping in remote dwellings, including caves on high mountaintops, remote islands, or supernatural worlds. The hero is frequently a historical figure of some military consequence in the history of the nation where the mountain is located.

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